Gog/Magog Before or after the rapture?

[yellowbo]

What do you think and why?

Will the christians see gog/magog? Why or why not?

If we do, how soon after do you think it will be until the rapture comes?

Is it possible that we will see gog/magog and the rapture be a ways off? Meaning how far in advance of the trib could gog/magog happen? Could it be years after gog/magog then the rapture then the trib?

[ChristineMarie]

I believe it will begin before the trib. Though def. a separate action then that of Armageddon.

I think those watching and see the alignment of the alliances spoken of in the prohecy are privey because we are witness to the unfolding of a great foretold war. But a war that has already been fought before. Because there is nothing new under the sun.

How far off do I believe the catching away of the Church. Any possible moment.. So not important. It's gonna happen regardless. But what is important is alot of people will die without knowing Christ.

Now what do you do.


CM

[yellowbo]

Originally Posted by ChristineMarie

I believe it will begin before the trib. Though def. a separate action then that of Armageddon.

I think those watching and see the alignment of the alliances spoken of in the prohecy are privey because we are witness to the unfolding of a great foretold war. But a war that has already been fought before. Because there is nothing new under the sun.

How far off do I believe the catching away of the Church. Any possible moment.. So not important. It's gonna happen regardless. But what is important is alot of people will die without knowing Christ.

Now what do you do.


CM

I agree it is before the trib, my question was is it possible that we will see it and that the trib could be years off AFTER it. And where in all of this would that rapture fit in.

[CaiperLane]

Since the Middle East is always in strife, experiencing some kind of conflict I think there's a chance that we may see the Gog/Magog conflict. I think IF we do the rapture will definitely be an any moment occurrence.` Yes it can happen any second NOW but once that conflict falls into place I would say it was immediately imminent. JMO

[AnyDayNow]

I lean toward after the rapture but before the trib. On the other hand, we could see the destruction of Damascus before the rapture, as it does not involve God directly with Israel and the gentile nations, while Gog/Magog does..

[LooC]

My guess is that we'll see things lining up like we are now, perhaps even see Russia beginning its attempted assault on Israel before, as ambassadors, being called Home. My 'siggy' says it all for me: God will be sanctified. To me, that simple fact/statement increases my awe and holy fear of our Father God! Before, during, or after - my fear of the Lord is growing in these Last Days that we're priveliged to be witnesses to. I'm leaning towards Gog/Magog beginning in earnest just after the Rapture. Of course, that may just be wishful thinking.

(I wish there were more sermons about the 'fear of the Lord'.)

"Fear of the Lord" in :
http://cgi.godsview.com/cgi-bin/rcde...ile=2050&occ=5

2 CORINTHIANS 5
20 Now then we are AMBASSADORS for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. (while there's still time....)

[prairiewoman]

Ezekiel 38:8-11
In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. You and all your troops and the many nations with you will go up, advancing like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.

" 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: On that day thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil scheme. You will say, "I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people—all of them living without walls and without gates and bars."
------------------------------------------

Israel is certainly not unsuspecting. I am more inclined to believe this is the same Gog/Magog war in Revelation, near the end of the Millenium, when Israel will have been living very peacefully, very unsuspecting, ALL of Israel without walls, without gates, without bars. That is almost a definition of the Millenium.

The fact that Israel burns and buries the debris of war for 7 years afterwards doesn't mean it's not at the end of the Millenium.

However - the ONLY way Israel would be unsuspecting in the current era would be if the Antichrist was in absolute power, and the whole of Israel declared a 'sanctuary,' which would be happily agreed to and welcomed by its enemies, including Iran, Hamas, etc. I just cannot imagine Israel living in total unsuspecting peace anytime soon.

[LooC]

I remember reading that the phrase "unwalled villages" actually meant something like "pre-walled villages". Oddest thing I've heard. Has anyone else read any commentaries that state that? I kept thinking it was Thomas Ice, but don't know for certain.

[watchman]

In the time this prophecy was spoken, almost all villages were "walled".

This is not the case today, and I do see the separation fence as 'walled villages".

In America, back in the very early times, people lived in "walled" encampments, forts, and so forth, America was "walled villages" for the settlers..

Now we may have a few gated communities, and we have somewhat of our own fence along the Mexico boarder, similar to Israel today, but we are basically "unwalled" ourselves.

Sort of like that.

[ready2go]

I'm leaning towards Ezekiel 38-39 and the Rapture some time after. Mind you, the Rapture would allow for a lot of uncontested aggression by certain parties that could lead up to Ezekiel 38-39.

[yellowbo]

Originally Posted by watchman

In the time this prophecy was spoken, almost all villages were "walled".

This is not the case today, and I do see the separation fence as 'walled villages".

In America, back in the very early times, people lived in "walled" encampments, forts, and so forth, America was "walled villages" for the settlers..

Now we may have a few gated communities, and we have somewhat of our own fence along the Mexico boarder, similar to Israel today, but we are basically "unwalled" ourselves.

Sort of like that.

I was going to post this exact same thing!

[SetApart]

18 “And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord GOD, “that My fury will show in My face. 19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: ‘Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel, 20 so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.’ 21 I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains,” says the Lord GOD. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22 And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the LORD.”’

This phrase of the passage makes me believe that gog/magog is later in the 70th week. This speaks to nations KNOWING that the Lord is LORD. I don't see that happening until later in the 70th week.

[ready2go]

Originally Posted by SetApart

18 “And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord GOD, “that My fury will show in My face. 19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: ‘Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel, 20 so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.’ 21 I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains,” says the Lord GOD. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22 And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the LORD.”’

This phrase of the passage makes me believe that gog/magog is later in the 70th week. This speaks to nations KNOWING that the Lord is LORD. I don't see that happening until later in the 70th week.

Although I can see your point, that would negate the 7 year peace treaty, possibly before it's time.

[SetApart]

I wish I could see it happening at the beginning of the 70th week, but I don't see any other time in scripture that people recognize, in such a dramatic way, that He is LORD....to me, that places it later in the 70th week. I could be wrong of course, but this is very telling to me that it will not be early in the trib.

[Hootmon]

Gog/Magog Before or after the rapture?

Yes.

[prairiewoman]

Originally Posted by Hootmon

Yes.

[Hootmon]

Originally Posted by prairiewoman

I know. I know. Master of the Obvious...

[AnyDayNow]

Originally Posted by Hootmon

Yes.

Glad we settled that.

[Hootmon]

Originally Posted by AnyDayNow

Glad we settled that.

[BHiles]

I do not believe the US escapse unscathed in the Gog-Magog war. Therefore I hope that it is after the rapture.

There is a haunting passage that grabs my attention merely a few scriptures after Tarshish and her young lions question Gog over his reasoning for the invasion. Because it is not only Magog who is destroyed but . . .

Eze 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

The word isles ‘iy in the hebrew actually means coastal regions.

[watchman]

or the description of major earthquakes, and so forth, that coincides with it.

I think it will be one of the worst battles, next to Armageddon.

[gloriousbegin]

my opinion, after the rapture.

I think the rapture may create the perfect opportunity for Russia to turn its attention to Israel due to the probable TOTAL collapse of the United States economically and financially at the time of the rapture.

Ezekiel 38:13-23 tells us that God will protect Israel. God will be magnified in the eyes of many nations and Israel will possibly begin to see they should be relying on God instead of the United States for their protection and safety.

I don't think this magnification of God will happen until after the rapture has happened.

Ezekiel 39:9-10 tells us that Israel will use the weapons from Russia's attempted attack to burn for fuel for seven years. The tribulation will last seven years so if the weapon talked about is oil then Israel will have enough fuel for the entire time.
If the attempt is before the rapture then Israel won’t have enough to last the entire tribulation.

[Castle]

Originally Posted by gloriousbegin

my opinion, after the rapture.

I think the rapture may create the perfect opportunity for Russia to turn its attention to Israel due to the probable TOTAL collapse of the United States economically and financially at the time of the rapture.

Ezekiel 38:13-23 tells us that God will protect Israel. God will be magnified in the eyes of many nations and Israel will possibly begin to see they should be relying on God instead of the United States for their protection and safety.

I don't think this magnification of God will happen until after the rapture has happened.

Ezekiel 39:9-10 tells us that Israel will use the weapons from Russia's attempted attack to burn for fuel for seven years. The tribulation will last seven years so if the weapon talked about is oil then Israel will have enough fuel for the entire time.
If the attempt is before the rapture then Israel won’t have enough to last the entire tribulation.

I agree. Admittedly, a weak argument, but a "huge" "God-Miracle", such as that seen in Ezekiel 39, just doesn't seem consistent with this dispensation, or the Church Age. We've gone almost 2,000 years w/o seeing such miracles.

It seems more consistent that Gog-MaGog, and witnessing something SO miraculous, like God clearly revealing His hand in a BIG way - would occur after the Rapture. Again, a somewhat weak argument. Having said that - I hope it does happen prior to the Rapture - it will be a tremendous witnessing opportunity.

[comicnurse]

Thanks for starting this thread. Very interesting points being made.

Kendra

[watchman]

Originally Posted by Castle

I agree. Admittedly, a weak argument, but a "huge" "God-Miracle", such as that seen in Ezekiel 39, just doesn't seem consistent with this dispensation, or the Church Age. We've gone almost 2,000 years w/o seeing such miracles.

It seems more consistent that Gog-MaGog, and witnessing something SO miraculous, like God clearly revealing His hand in a BIG way - would occur after the Rapture. Again, a somewhat weak argument. Having said that - I hope it does happen prior to the Rapture - it will be a tremendous witnessing opportunity.

The creation of the Jewish State, the regaining Jerusalem, return of the Falash Mura, the Raid on Entebbe, Yom Kippur War, and many other things are seen and proclaimed by many Jewish people as true Wonders of G-d (Miracles).

I have personally spoken to some of the war vets who have seen angels on the battle field, and perhaps some may think it embellished, but I do not.

We very well could see a miracle in Israel and not see G-d's Hand in it.

Sometimes one needs eyes to see and ears to hear.

Some hear G-d, others hear thunder.

John 12:27-30
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, [saying], I have both glorified [it], and will glorify [it] again.
The people therefore, that stood by, and heard [it], said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.