Hear the truth of the gospel and not receive it?

[John 3:16]

Is it possible to hear the gospel and recognize that it is truth, but not receive it for yourself?

For example, the parable of the sower. Could someone explain if that is what it means?

Also, the rich young man that asked Jesus, "I've done all that. What do I need to do to enter heaven?" And Jesus told him to sell all that he had and follow me. The young man went away- the cost was too great. It seems like he recognized the truth of what Jesus said but rejected it for himself (did not receive it personally) because he was unwilling to make Him Lord of his life.

[Hootmon]

Sounds like you just answered your own question. :)

[John 3:16]

NOOO, don't do that to me!:lol

Are you serious? But all the soils don't mean the same thing. Which one could (or does) mean that the person heard the truth but didn't receive it?

So you do agree that the young rich man heard the truth (and recognized it as such) but then was unwilling to make the sacrifice?

I'm just trying to recognize all the "types" of unbelievers out there. It's one of my favorite pasttimes.:lol I think I just discovered this new type I didn't know about.

[John 3:16]

Ok, let's see here:

1) Some seed fell along the path and the birds ate it up.
These are the people that heard the gospel but don't "hear". It did not take root at all.

2) Some fell on rocky places where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched and they withered because they had no root.
I think this must be the ones who heard the gospel and accepted it as truth (excitedly like the rich young man) but as soon as persecution came or they were asked to sacrifice on behalf of the Lord (make Him #1) they did not and the seed died.

3)Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants.
Also recognized truth but let those of the world take it away.

4)Other seed fell in good soil and produced a crop.
This is us!

So, no other "seeds" are saved seeds, is that correct?

[glorydays]

John 3:16,

The seed sown on the wayside: "And when he sowed, some seeds fell on the wayside..." (13:4) Now looking at Christ's interpretation, "When one heareth the word and understandeth it not...this is the seed sowen by the wayside." (13:19) Jesus explains to His disciples of the Pharisees "they seeing see not, and hearing they hear not, and shall not understand... For this people's heart is waxed [dull, callous] and their ears dull of hearing, and their eyes closed lest at any time they should see,... hear, and should understand with their hearts, and should be converted and I should heal them." (13:14-15)

What is the problem that most of us run into when we share the plan of salvation with the lost? Is it not that "hearing they hear not?" that they just don't understand? How are we to make our abstract notion of salvation real for those who canot hear? or whose hearts are calloused?

First, we concluded that it is "water" that softens the earth -- and to us, water is the Holy Spirit, right? We need to pray for ourselves and for those we witness to. Then we need to use the word of God -- Eph 6:17 tells us that "And take... the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." (I've always found "The Roman's Road" to be especially easy to remember and use. Find and carry the tract with you because if the person reads and hears for him/herself, it is much more likely they will "hear" and "understand.").

Want to make the gospel less abstract still? Share the testimony of your own salvation (before and after) and of what God has done for you. Life experience is the "evidence of things unseen" by unbelievers -- "so that things that appear were not made of things that appear." --but of God (Heb 11:1, 3). I know in my own life, none of my inherent attributes or education would suggest I should or would be a pilot much less a child of God -- but His Spirit changed everything!

But there is that hard ground that still will not be broken. What then? All you can do is get alongside them. Just live Christ and be there when that person's world begins not to make sense for them. It is tragic that much that we say and do cannot even be "heard" and "seen" by the hearts of some people -- like the Pharisees if Jesus time. But we know that God has His time.

The seed sown in the shallow soil: "And some seed fell on stony places that had not much earth... and because they had no root, they withered away." (13:5-6) "But he that receiveth the seed into stony places... heareth... and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet he hath no root in himself, but... when tribulation and persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended." (13:20-21)

Now here is the problem of one who is saved but not discipled. Do you see it? Joyfully he/she heard, understood, and received the truth and sprang to life! Jeff cited a statistic from the Billy Graham Crusade that only 5% of those who come forward in their revivals is actually living a changed life a year later! What happened?

They never began living from "faith to faith" (Rom 1:17). God rewards true faith --- but if you don't begin learning and applying faith, there is no impetus to grow in new faith and grace. Paul describes the growing Christian in 2 Pet 1:4-8 warning "For if these things be in you and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of... Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged of his old sins." Know anyone who needs discipling? who needs to hear the word and see someone live it?

The seed that fell among the thorns: "And some fell among the thorns; and the thorns sprang up and choked them." (13:7) "And he that receiveth the seed the among thorns is he that heareth the word; and the cares of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word and he becometh unfruitful." Again, the word is heard, received, and sprang forth though with thorns all around. Most Christians, rich and poor, are sown among thorns. Let's face it -- you can feed yourself on the word in good soil and still, if you can't take your eyes off the world, you'll not be fruitful. Scripture adjures us here -- be "in the world" (John 17:11) but "not of the world"/like the world (17:14, 16). Whose truth do you live by? Are you molding yourself and your family according to the world's expectations or God's? You know, most of those "thorns" grow so well near you -- in your soil --- because you haven't eradicated them!

[John 3:16]

glorydays,
It seems that you are saying that the seeds sown in rocky soil and the seeds sown with thorns and briers around, represent saved people. I disagree. I think the only ones saved are the ones planted in good soil. I think the good soil represents a repentent heart, searching for truth.

Does anyone else have an interpretation?

[greatestislove]

A wise man once said,

"There are certain truths which a man cannot accept; he must discover them for himself."



edit......perhaps we need to look at John 3:31-36 for some guidance.

gil

[Silly Daddy]

Originally posted by John 3:16
I think the only ones saved are the ones planted in good soil. I think the good soil represents a repentant heart, searching for truth.
I agree with this. The word grows in some peoples hearts for a time, but do not grow to yield fruit. They do not accept Christ. Weather the seed is stolen by wickedness, scorched by trial, or choked by everyday concerns and desires, true repentance and salvation aren't reached. Only a truly repentant person calling on Jesus for salvation produces the fruit of a saved soul. That would be the only righteous harvest. The only fruit sweet to God. IMHO
:D

[matheteou]

Originally posted by John 3:16
Is it possible to hear the gospel and recognize that it is truth, but not receive it for yourself?

For example, the parable of the sower. Could someone explain if that is what it means?

Also, the rich young man that asked Jesus, "I've done all that. What do I need to do to enter heaven?" And Jesus told him to sell all that he had and follow me. The young man went away- the cost was too great. It seems like he recognized the truth of what Jesus said but rejected it for himself (did not receive it personally) because he was unwilling to make Him Lord of his life. Take a look at Mat 7:24-27. The word 'hear' (akouo) carries with it the sense of 'hearing with understanding'.

[John 3:16]

Thanks Y'all!:)

[Albernon]

Also consider Hebrews 6:4-8 and remember that Jesus said the rain falls on the just and the unjust! Sorry I can't elaborate more - lunch hour is almost over. :)

God Bless!

[Shyguy]

http://www.spurgeon.org/misc/sower.htm


A good read on the subject. I was kind of back and forth on it, but I'm starting to believe the same as John 3:16

[joint heir]

I am back and forth on it too......I can see the point that if you received then you are saved....you will be one of the christians going to heaven with scorched feet so to say...but you are still saved....


the understanding of the parable of the sower ties in to ones understanding of OSAS and Lordship salvation....

namely can you lose your salvation?...if you think yes then you will most likely say that the middle seeds are no longer saved
I am an OSASer so I think that if they received then they are saved

secondly, Must you make Christ Lord of your life to be saved? I think that allowing Christ to be your Lord is a part of sanctification and maturity...but I do not feel that the Bible teaches that the Lord must be Lord in every area in order to be saved.....many people go through times of darkness yet are still saved....they hold certain areas of life in their own control and pay the consequences (being choked by the weeds)

I think that one can experience being choked by the weeds yet still be saved (I know that I experienced this is my life)

so I lean that the middle seeds are saved although without many rewards.....but this is not to say that they can not be changed into a seed that is in good soil and without weeds....they are not doomed to their state

jmo

[Silly Daddy]

I grew up on a farm so I tend to look at the passage a little more literally. Notice that the first three places are uncultivated soil. The road, rocks and thorns. The fourth is the field which has been tilled and prepared. It would be the only place you could take a harvest.

In this case I think that harvest is saved souls. Once that seed is growing it is not immune to competition with weeds. Tares grow among them. Weeds tend to stunt the growth of the crop.

I think that this is consistent with OSAS, of which I also believe. Put another way, just hearing the word won't save. I think the road, rocks and thorns are the people who hear, either a little bit, or a lot, but ultimately reject the word.

I've seen this in people who hear the word and dismiss it because I am just one of those "Jesus Freaks." Others you can talk to on several occasions. They gain more and more understanding, though they don't take that final step. Eventually they just avoid you and drift away.

[ssimon2000]

I'm going to throw my two pennies into the mix...

1 - The pathway seeds - These are the people that hear the Word, and ignore it completely. They do not get saved.
2 - The rocky (shallow) seeds - These are the people that hear the Word, and initially follow Christ, maybe like a flash-in-the-pan type, on fire at first, then fall away. While they are saved, they never get past the "baby-food" into the meat of God's Word in their life.
3 - The thorny seeds - These are the people that hear the Word, follow Christ, but are drawn away again by the cares of the world and by the attacks of Satan and his ilk. They are saved as well, but don't stay focused on Christ and His Word in their life.
4 - The good seeds - These are the people that hear the Word, follow Christ, and produce Holy Spirit fruit in their lives. They stay focused on Christ, and strive to grow in the knowledge of God's Word AND apply it to their lives. Like John 3:16 said, "This is us!" (At least I hope and pray it is! :D )

I am a OSAS'er, so the only one that isn't saved are the first seeds, since the Word never took root in their lives. Second and Third seeds will have to answer for their actions (or lack thereof) at the Bema Seat of Christ, and may end up with a Burger-King-Crown for their crown of glory in heaven, and work with a mop in their hands!

[Silly Daddy]

Originally posted by ssimon2000
. . . may end up with a Burger-King-Crown for their crown of glory in heaven . . .:rofl

[glorydays]

simon 2000,

I agree -- the whole issue is did life spring forth from the seed? In 3 cases there was life.

But there is a further truth in these parables. Adam was the seed by the path - Satan (the wicked one) took away the seed and dropped it where it didn't belong, outside the garden.

The next seed were those after Adam -- there was no depth of knowledge of God and how were the sons of Seth/God to know not to marry the daughters of men (for instance).

The next seed was Noah -- planted in the new world which was quickly overcome by at Babel by the cares of the one world religion.

Now these seeds were all good seeds, right? Yeah, Adam was "lost" but even by the parable, found again on the outside of Eden.

And might I suggest that these were "wheat" seeds as it turns out in the next parable where tares were planted in the wheat/Israel. And it is wheat that is harvested from the tares at the end. The only strange element is the mustard seed/church!

[Ibelong2Him]

3 - The thorny seeds - These are the people that hear the Word, follow Christ, but are drawn away again by the cares of the world and by the attacks of Satan and his ilk. They are saved as well, but don't stay focused on Christ and His Word in their life.

IMHO,

this category would include someone who was saved as a child but never grew into a full relationship due to being consumed by cares of this world and have fallen away.

[LanceVB]

Yea you can hear the truth and not believe, it happens all the time, What is crucial is giving out correct truth. Why is it so important to witness and give Bible verses like John 3:16, and Acts 4:12? Because when you give someone information you then let the Holy Spirit do His job of convicting that person. We can not make any one believe in Christ, but we sure can give out clear, lucid information. I'm not talking about a 4 step program that sounds nice but it actually is a pathetic diversion on how to be saved! Its faith alone in Christ alone. (We do not have to keep the law!)

Anyway, Essua repented with tears, not faith.
The Pharoh of Egypt heard the truth and did not repent (believe in the 2nd person of the Trinity).


Lance

[mephib]

The parable of the sower is the key parable, according to Christ Himself. I used to think that all were saved but the seed grown in rocky soil, but I have changed my opinion.

Caveat: I am certainly not confident enough about my position to be dogmatic, so fire away. Maybe together if we seek the Lord on this He will bring us to a common understanding.

But I believe the issue is BIRTH, not Life, even though life must always precede birth. Certainly, life is present, as with a fetus. But will it be a miscarriage, or will there be strength to bring the new life into the world? Think of all the Scriptures that talk of the curse of miscarriage, and how it is a penalty to a sinful nation. Remember that the unborn do not inherit in this world as a matter of law, so consequently the spiritually unborn will not inherit in the next world.

Christ spoke to Nicodemus about birth, not conception. Birth was the key. And note the very revealing text in John 2:23-25: Many believed in His name but Christ did not give Himself to them so as to save them. They believed, recognized the Gospel as truth, but their belief was only skin deep, never filtering down to the inner man, and therefore never manifesting in the outer man.

I would analogize the new birth to the formation of the flower or the fruit. Until then the plant is good for nothing and, if it does not bear, will be cut and burned. That does not sound like the fate of the believer to me.

[BarbT]

Great post, mephib. :) I think you have illuminated a point that most of us have never considered. I think you're right!

Awesome, thank you!:cool

[glorydays]

mephib,

I think you are being too callous. Fruit is fruit and life is life. When Jesus came, even the fig tree was not producing fruit. Therefore, the lost the "franchise" to "seed"/share salvation but not their salvation.

And anyway -- were not the seeds "birthed" to life? Sure they were.

[TonyLee]

Originally posted by ssimon2000
[B]I'm going to throw my two pennies into the mix...

1 - The pathway seeds - These are the people that hear the Word, and ignore it completely. They do not get saved.

I agree completely!


2 - The rocky (shallow) seeds - These are the people that hear the Word, and initially follow Christ, maybe like a flash-in-the-pan type, on fire at first, then fall away. While they are saved, they never get past the "baby-food" into the meat of God's Word in their life.

I believe these people never got saved. It is just like those who followed Christ and shouted as He rode the donkey, but later wanted to kill Him. John 2:23-25 talks about some who "believed" in His name, but Jesus knew their hearts.

Also,
John 5:33-35

33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.

34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

John 6:66 talks about many who followed who left to walk no more with Him. Verse 64 shows there were those there who were not saved.


3 - The thorny seeds - These are the people that hear the Word, follow Christ, but are drawn away again by the cares of the world and by the attacks of Satan and his ilk. They are saved as well, but don't stay focused on Christ and His Word in their life.

This may be a mixed group. I'm sure there are some here who never got saved, and there may be some here who are saved, but never matured. I can't see the saved one staying in sin and being happy about it though. (I do not believe someone can lose salvation either.)


4 - The good seeds - These are the people that hear the Word, follow Christ, and produce Holy Spirit fruit in their lives. They stay focused on Christ, and strive to grow in the knowledge of God's Word AND apply it to their lives. Like John 3:16 said, "This is us!" (At least I hope and pray it is! :D )

This is where we should desire to be.
edited to add that I posted this before reading another post using those verses in John 2 that I used. :):

[Hootmon]

Hmm... Ive spent most of my Christian walk stumbling about in the 'Thorns', I think. :(

Im still in the 'Rough' I think, but I can see the 'Green' from here.

Fore!