Question About Genesis

[kublakahn]

Hello, I am fairly new to the board. I have enjoyed reading the discussions on here and have learned a lot from them. I have a question that I am hoping to get some feedback on. I have been discussing Genesis with my sister-in-law; she believes in the "Gap Theory". I've looked at this before and have come to the conclusion that I don't believe in it. Now she is very adamant about it and she is not one who is easily decieved. So I was just hoping to find out what all of you fine people have to say about it. Also I would be interested in any good research resources you could point me to on the subject. I look forward to reading your responses. Thank you in advance.

[christiansrock]

and the "gap theory" would be....?

[kublakahn]

The "Gap Theory" proproses that there is an indeterminate number of years (millions) that happened between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. This was as far as I can see, an attempt to harmonize the Genesis account with science. So it ends up becoming a theological dumping ground for all of the scientific observations that don't "seem" to fit with the Genesis narrative.

[Maestro]

Visit The Creation Science Website (http://www.creationscience.com) for all you need to know about creation :D

Personally I see no problem with God creating the world in 6 days, 6 thousand years or six billion years.... as long as He created it because He loves us :D:D:D

[ssimon2000]

The gap theory, in my opinion, doesn't line up with scripture, and here's why.

The gap theory implies death and decay, since evolution can't happen without death (survival of the fittest, you know?). Death did not enter the world until Eve, and then Adam, took the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, at the promptings of Satan.

I could expound more, but that's it in a nutshell!

[kublakahn]

Thanks for your reply ssimon2000, please do expound more if you feel like it.

Thanks for the link Maestro, I do not think I have visited that site before.

[glorydays]

kublakahn,

I believe in the gap theory and here's why -- while it is true God could have carved the Grand Canyon or made starlight to instantly appear billions of miles away from it origins or any number of similar time-sensitive occurences happen, still He is the God of the laws of nature.

Now why would anyone want to go making excuses for God? There is no necessity of there being life in those billions of years. We needn't believe science that plants and animals date back billions of years -- but we needn't accept that God did it all in 6 days either. Most believe that the earth was shrouded in vapor and the heavens were therefore not visible or light. The thinning of the vapor led to night and day -- then thinner still sun, moon, and stars were visible. The vapor couls have suspended volcanic ash and dust from meteor strikes on the first day and for days afterward that made earth dark.

Science and scripture will be on the same page one day when Christ returns but till then, we have to acknowledge both scripture and science where truths don't conflict.

[Timothy]

I think multiple theories might be blended into one. It has been some time since I've looked at the "Gap Theory."

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

My understanding is that the theory is based on Genesis 1, and the theory is as follows: The theory is that there may have been prior life on earth. Their reasoning is that based on 1:2, the earth was "without form" (i.e. destroyed). And that in 1:28, they are told to RE-plenish the earth. That's all I can remember right now about the theory. I may have a book in my (personal) library that has more on it (i.e. Clarence Larkin, I believe, was one that shared this theory).

[Knight Errant]

Originally posted by Timothy
I think multiple theories might be blended into one. It has been some time since I've looked at the "Gap Theory."

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

My understanding is that the theory is based on Genesis 1, and the theory is as follows: The theory is that there may have been prior life on earth. Their reasoning is that based on 1:2, the earth was "without form" (i.e. destroyed). And that in 1:28, they are told to RE-plenish the earth. That's all I can remember right now about the theory. I may have a book in my (personal) library that has more on it (i.e. Clarence Larkin, I believe, was one that shared this theory).

One Hebrew scholar who I once read said the Genesis 1:2 should be translated "and the earth became without form and void." implying that it had previous NOT been without form and void.

Fortunately our salvation does not depend on any one interpretation of this verse. We know that God made all things. We can learn the details later. Until we have all the facts, we take it on faith that Science will conform to Scripture without completely knowing how.

[PanTerra]

Originally posted by kublakahn
Hello, I am fairly new to the board. I have enjoyed reading the discussions on here and have learned a lot from them. I have a question that I am hoping to get some feedback on. I have been discussing Genesis with my sister-in-law; she believes in the "Gap Theory". I've looked at this before and have come to the conclusion that I don't believe in it. Now she is very adamant about it and she is not one who is easily decieved. So I was just hoping to find out what all of you fine people have to say about it. Also I would be interested in any good research resources you could point me to on the subject. I look forward to reading your responses. Thank you in advance.

The Gap "Theory" was a change in the hermeneutical approach of a literal interpretation of Genesis ala Ussher's chronology, conceived in an attempt to explain away the mounting evidence for the ancient age of the earth, as well as the associated fossil evidence of mass extinctions of entire groups of living organisms, prior to man's appearance.

[PanTerra]

.

[7Rock]

I`ve read that "formless and void" literally translates as "chaotic".
Would God create something that is chaotic?

Notice in the days of "creation" that he doesn`t actually create anything until he gets to man and animals.

Also note that when he seperated the waters to make the sky, or heaven, he didn`t say "it was good".

I think he created earth billions of years ago, it was populated with angels, and Lucifer was put in charge. He got a big head and...well you know the rest of the story.
Creation was corrupted, God made the earth "formless and void", and decided to create man. Satan hasn`t been to happy about that and has been out to get us since day one.
On the second day, when God said "let their be an expanse (sky)between the waters", Satan the "Prince of the air" rushed in with the third of the angels that rebelled with him. That`s why God didn`t say "it was good", like he did on the other days.

[inspector]

Also see www.icr.org and the "Back to Genesis" section. The gap theory is out, so far as I'm concerned.

[Maestro]

I just had a 3hr long MSn debate with an old-Earth-creationist, Christian friend of mine (what a mouthful!).

My conclusion is that The Bible has ways of describing very large numbers, such as ten thousand times ten thousand, or likening something to sand on a beach, or starts in the sky. The Bible is also all true and I don't believe you can pick and chose which bits to take as symbolic without scrtipture to back you up. When people have dreams, it's symbolic - but you always know when someone is dreaming - it says so. Jesus also talks in parables, this is also clear. I can't remember anywhere else where symbolic imagery is used when it's not Jesus talking or a dream which is being written down. If the Bible says that God created the Universe in 6 days, then you can be sure it took six days. If it had taken 15 billion years or something then genesis would say something like "God created Heaven and the Earth and the number of years was as sand on the shore"... you get the idea. I can't help but think that if God created the Universe over a very long time then He would have said so and not bothered making something up to say He did it in 6 days.

There is one passage, however, which can maybe be applied if you're really looking to interpret - which helps the age of the Earth by doubling it and is consistant with scripture:

2 Peter 3:7-8 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So it's perfectly possible that each of those days was like a thousand years of 'normal' time. It adds a lovely symmetry to the whole of creation. God created Everything in six, one thousand year days and then rested on His sabbath. Adam sins and so man gets six of the same 'days' to try to run the place. After which Jesus comes again to reign on His Sabbath and we get to rest for the same Sabbath - His thousand year reign on Earth :D

Either way, I think the fact that the Bible clearly says God created the Universe in 6 days.

[PanTerra]

Originally posted by Maestro
I just had a 3hr long MSn debate with an old-Earth-creationist, Christian friend of mine (what a mouthful!).

My conclusion is that The Bible has ways of describing very large numbers, such as ten thousand times ten thousand, or likening something to sand on a beach, or starts in the sky. The Bible is also all true and I don't believe you can pick and chose which bits to take as symbolic without scrtipture to back you up. When people have dreams, it's symbolic - but you always know when someone is dreaming - it says so. Jesus also talks in parables, this is also clear. I can't remember anywhere else where symbolic imagery is used when it's not Jesus talking or a dream which is being written down. If the Bible says that God created the Universe in 6 days, then you can be sure it took six days. If it had taken 15 billion years or something then genesis would say something like "God created Heaven and the Earth and the number of years was as sand on the shore"... you get the idea. I can't help but think that if God created the Universe over a very long time then He would have said so and not bothered making something up to say He did it in 6 days.

There is one passage, however, which can maybe be applied if you're really looking to interpret - which helps the age of the Earth by doubling it and is consistant with scripture:

2 Peter 3:7-8 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So it's perfectly possible that each of those days was like a thousand years of 'normal' time. It adds a lovely symmetry to the whole of creation. God created Everything in six, one thousand year days and then rested on His sabbath. Adam sins and so man gets six of the same 'days' to try to run the place. After which Jesus comes again to reign on His Sabbath and we get to rest for the same Sabbath - His thousand year reign on Earth :D

Either way, I think the fact that the Bible clearly says God created the Universe in 6 days.

And there are those that believe that the Bible clearly says that Earth is the center of the solar system, as well as the entire universe. :sigh

[7Rock]

Where does it say he created the "universe" in six days?

[7Rock]

The Word clearly states that each day is one single day.
Notice at the end of each day it says,
"And there was evening, and there was morning---the_____day."
I don`t think night and day were each 500 years long!

Also note that it doesn`t mention anything being created on a specific day, until the fifth and sixth days when he created fish, birds, animals and man. He`s just rearranging things before that.

The earth is obviously here before the first day. The first day he turns his light on, which I believe is his shining countanance, to illuminate the darkness. Go into a dark room and turn on a light switch. You immediatly have light, but the house and the wiring were already there.
The second day he moves already existing water to the sky. He`s just moving things into their place. He doesn`t say he created water on the second day. Where did it come from? The same goes for the third and fourth day. He separates already existing land and sea, then tells seed that is already there, to produce.

[7Rock]

"Now the earth was formless and empty,"

Look up the literal translation for the Hebrew word that is shown as "was" in the above sentance.
It is "became".

"Now the earth became formless and empty".

[EventHorizon]

A good site: www.kjvbible.org

Death did enter the world with Adam's sin, but let's not get confused here. That death was a spiritual death. While Adam was in the garden, he ate from the tree of life. That is why he didn't die. The fruit of the tree of life will be made available to man again when we enter Heaven. That is how we will live forever. God told Adam he would die when he ate the fruit of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If this was a physical death, why did it take hundreds of years? I know what your thinking. He did die.......eventually, and this is what God meant. Look at Genesis 2:17

2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

God said they would die the very same day, and they did, spiritually.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Here Jesus says that the living are dead. He also says that if we believe in him we shall never die. However, we all will die physically, but if we are spiritually alive we will never die.

Another point: God had to remove the fruit of the tree of life from mans diet after his fall, else he would live forever. Genesis 3:22

Now about Genesis 1:2 and the earth being without form and void and being covered in DARKNESS. look in Job:

Job 38:4
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

38:5
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

38:6
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

All the sons of God (angels) shouted for joy at the earth's creation. ALL of the sons. That would include Lucifer. Do you think he would be happy about this in his present state. I don't think so. They also would not be celebrating if God's light was not in the earth. The light mentioned in Genesis 1:3 is spiritual. Notice in the KJV the Day and Night are capitalized. The scholars of king James were not fools!