Timothy
May 7th, 2003, 03:55 PM
THIS THREAD IS NOT TO DISCUSS ETERNAL SECURITY VS. CONDITIONAL SECURITY
(Hint: There are already several active threads for that discussion)
The purpose of this thread is to dicuss eternal security as a fact, and when was this doctrine (fully) revealed, made known.
One of the problems that I have noticed in some of the other eternal security threads, on both sides of the issue, is a lack of a dispensational approach to scripture. All scripture was written *for* us (II Timothy 3:16) but not all scripture was written *to* us (II Timothy 2:15). God's revealed message, methods, and programs change through the dispsensations. Today, we have the benefit of a completed word of God and knowledge of his full revelation.
In some of the threads on eternal security, posters are taking verses and applying stand alone meanings to them. We need to understand what was God's revealed program for that particular day (dispensation). What did they know and understand? All to often, information revealed later is "read" back into earlier scripture. Sure scripture is full of types and foreshadows, but people of that day did not know that, etc.
My contention is that it is not until the dispensation and "gospel of grace" was revealed to Paul, was the doctrine of eternal security revealed. And along the same lines, it was not revealed until Paul that the basis for salvation has always been faith. Keep in mind that though the basis has always been faith (which was revealed to Paul), the object and requirements for salvation changed from dispensation to dispensation, program to program. God revealed to Paul how we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, no longer justified by the law, etc.
When neither side in the discussion uses a dispensational approach, the dicussion goes literally no where, as God's revealed messsages and programs are being misapplied, law and grace are being mixed, etc. What I see occurring is that the proponents of conditional security are putting themselves "back" into an earlier program with some of the verses they use, and the proponents of eternal security are "reading" Paul's gospel back into those same passages. That is how both sides get two different meanings. One is stuck in the past, the other is taking the future and applying back to the past. Those the recognize eternal security for what it is, should recognize the distinctiveness of the gospel of grace revealed to Paul.
I am interested in hearing from other eternal security believers as to when they think the doctrine of eternal security was fully revealed (made known) and why? And discuss with them the need to apply a dispensational approach to eternal security, as with any scripture or doctrine.
Your humble and respective brother in Christ....
(Hint: There are already several active threads for that discussion)
The purpose of this thread is to dicuss eternal security as a fact, and when was this doctrine (fully) revealed, made known.
One of the problems that I have noticed in some of the other eternal security threads, on both sides of the issue, is a lack of a dispensational approach to scripture. All scripture was written *for* us (II Timothy 3:16) but not all scripture was written *to* us (II Timothy 2:15). God's revealed message, methods, and programs change through the dispsensations. Today, we have the benefit of a completed word of God and knowledge of his full revelation.
In some of the threads on eternal security, posters are taking verses and applying stand alone meanings to them. We need to understand what was God's revealed program for that particular day (dispensation). What did they know and understand? All to often, information revealed later is "read" back into earlier scripture. Sure scripture is full of types and foreshadows, but people of that day did not know that, etc.
My contention is that it is not until the dispensation and "gospel of grace" was revealed to Paul, was the doctrine of eternal security revealed. And along the same lines, it was not revealed until Paul that the basis for salvation has always been faith. Keep in mind that though the basis has always been faith (which was revealed to Paul), the object and requirements for salvation changed from dispensation to dispensation, program to program. God revealed to Paul how we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, no longer justified by the law, etc.
When neither side in the discussion uses a dispensational approach, the dicussion goes literally no where, as God's revealed messsages and programs are being misapplied, law and grace are being mixed, etc. What I see occurring is that the proponents of conditional security are putting themselves "back" into an earlier program with some of the verses they use, and the proponents of eternal security are "reading" Paul's gospel back into those same passages. That is how both sides get two different meanings. One is stuck in the past, the other is taking the future and applying back to the past. Those the recognize eternal security for what it is, should recognize the distinctiveness of the gospel of grace revealed to Paul.
I am interested in hearing from other eternal security believers as to when they think the doctrine of eternal security was fully revealed (made known) and why? And discuss with them the need to apply a dispensational approach to eternal security, as with any scripture or doctrine.
Your humble and respective brother in Christ....