What was " the sign of the prophet Jonas"...?

[just_jim]

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

[B A N E]

Jonah: Three days in the belly of the whale
Jesus: Three days in the belly of the earth

HTH

[just_jim]

Originally posted by B A N E
Jonah: Three days in the belly of the whale
Jesus: Three days in the belly of the earth

HTH

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Now... could this have a dual application?

Could this 'sign' have end-time relevance?



Also, What are the possible meanings of 'Generation' in Matt 16:4 ?

[Joshua's Gen]

Originally posted by just_jim


Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Now... could this have a dual application?

Could this 'sign' have end-time relevance?

Yes.

Some think the double (or triple) application of that is prophetic.
Combined with:

Hosea 6:1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Meaning as the Millennium begins, and Christ defeats the armies at Megiddo, Israel will be resurrected as a nation in some respects, as the spiritual blinders are removed and they come into the saving knowledge of their Messiah.

Also, What are the possible meanings of 'Generation' in Matt 16:4 ?

It could just mean a general time period when people live, no specific number dogmatically assigned.

Other examples of generations are of

40 years, 70 years, 80 years, 120 years.. etc..

[just_jim]

How about the "two witnesses" ?

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

__________________

Re: generation... perhaps in Matt 16, but what of it's use here...?

Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.


The generation of people alive when Christ said that have passed away!, so we must look for an applicable meaning for "generation" in this case (unless your a 'preterist', which I am not).

Any ideas?


p.s., Re: your use of 80 years as a generation, where do you derive this from please?

[Joyous_n_Jesus]

Don't quote me on this, as I have not studied this out for myself yet. And right now do not have the time to, but maybe you can look into it a bit further.

I heard someone say, that God counts a generation by His Covenant's. Like His covenant with Abraham, then Issac, then Jacob, and so forth.......

If that is so, then "this generation" shall not pass, till all be fulfilled when Jesus Christ comes for His bride. Because we are still in the midst of His Covenant with His Son........

But as I said, I have not studied this out yet at all in detail. My best guess would to start in the Book of Matt. 1 and Luke 3....

[just_jim]

Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.


The generation of people alive when Christ said that have passed away!, so we must look for an applicable meaning for "generation" in this case (unless your a 'preterist', which I am not).


Any ideas?

____________________

generation = genea (Strong's 1074)
Greek for 1074

Pronunciation Guide
genea {ghen-eh-ah'}

TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 1:662,114 from (a presumed derivative of) 1085

Part of Speech
n f

Outline of Biblical Usage (pick one! :D )

1) fathered, birth, nativity

2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family

a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy

b) metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character

1) esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation

3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time

4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

[Joshua's Gen]

p.s., Re: your use of 80 years as a generation, where do you derive this from please?

Actually, I am not sure if I should have mentioned 80.

The "typical" ones are 40, 70, and 120, however.

I think I just picked it up from Psalm 90 (verse 10) - not a real good argument..

Anyway!..

Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.


The generation of people alive when Christ said that have passed away!, so we must look for an applicable meaning for "generation" in this case (unless your a 'preterist', which I am not).


Nope, not a preterist!

"This Generation" - the generation that sees the beginning of these signs - shall not pass away - till all be fulfilled.

It could also, in a broader sense imply..

their are just about a 'generation' of Jubilees (40) from Christ until the Rapture/Second Coming of Christ - in my theory. (2,000 years)

:b

The two witnesses is another good 'after three days' event. Their's a lot that connects like a chain link..

[pilgrimian]

Back to the bit about the generation not passing which is mentioned in Luke 21:32. In context this is the Parable of the Fig Tree (which I personally think has been misapplied to re-establishment of Israel in 1948).

As the Fig Tree blossoms one knows that summer is on its way...since it blossoms in Spring. What needs to be seen in this Scripture is:

31 "So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near.

In harmony, it is helpful to see the Matthew 24 passage concerning the Fig Tree:

32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near;
33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

In my understanding the Fig Tree is talking about the Abomination of Desolation, which marks the half-way point of the Tribulation. Anyone who knows Scripture then will know that summer is certainly on its way...Christ will be "at the door" within 1260 days. That generation will certainly not pass away.

So it isn't necessarily the present generation (us) that will not pass away since we witnessed Israel's re-establishment. Rather, those who witness the Abomination of Desolation will see the establishment of something much more exciting (though the establishment of Israel does excite me)...the Messianic Kingdom (the Millenium).

Godspeed,
Matthew

[Awall]

Originally posted by pilgrimian
Back to the bit about the generation not passing which is mentioned in Luke 21:32. In context this is the Parable of the Fig Tree (which I personally think has been misapplied to re-establishment of Israel in 1948). ....

In my understanding the Fig Tree is talking about the Abomination of Desolation, which marks the half-way point of the Tribulation. Anyone who knows Scripture then will know that summer is certainly on its way...Christ will be "at the door" within 1260 days. That generation will certainly not pass away.


Everything I have read points to the Fig Tree as representing the re-establishment of the Jews. Take this cut from a piece by Dr. David Reagan for example.

The Old Testament prophets teach that the Messiah will come in triumph to reign over all the world at a time when the Jews have been re-established in their land and in their city of Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:10-12; Jeremiah 23:5-8; Ezekiel 37; and Zechariah 12).

The state of Israel was proclaimed to the world on May 14, 1948. The Jews reoccupied the city of Jerusalem on June 7.

Two Jewish Signs
Jesus emphasized the significance of these two signs in His teaching. He mentioned both of them in His "Olivet Discourse," delivered to His disciples during the last week of His life.

Regarding the re-establishment of the state of Israel, He told his disciples to watch "the fig tree," because when it blooms again, all the things prophesied about the end times will come to pass (Matthew 24:32-34). The fig tree is one of the symbols of Israel in the Hebrew Scriptures (Hosea 9:10, Jeremiah 24:1-10, and Joel 1:7).

There seems to be a pattern for the use of the Fig Tree in representing Israel. The discription of the Fig Tree seems to describe life or a growing season. Thus I don't have a problem interpreting it to be speaking about the re-establisment of Israel as a nation.

I am curious as to how you see the parable of the Fig Tree representing the Abonimation of Desolation? How did you come to that conclusion?

Here's a link to the whole article I got the cut from just in case someone want's to see it.
http://www.lamblion.com/prophecy/key/Key-07.html

Adam

[DJHere]

Here is a link to an article that I found most interesting and which should give you much food for thought as to the Luke reference. It starts out in Matthew but goes on to explain the Luke 21 generation.

http://www.rapturesolution.com/beechick/Book/Olivet.htm#luke21.31

11
The Olivet Solution
One day Jesus sat down on the Mount of Olives and the disciples came up to Him and asked about His second coming. Jesus revealed to them signs that would precede His coming, including the Great Tribulation, and He told them of His coming with power and great glory after the tribulation. Jesus concluded this portion of the discourse in an unexpected way. He said of His coming, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matthew 24:36). "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 25:13).

Doesn't it seem strange that the strongest statements of imminency in the entire Bible occur in this post-tribulational context? It is very puzzling after what we learned in chapter two that believers can count 1260 days from the abomination of desolation to the return of Christ. Is this a contradiction? Is the Olivet Discourse an insoluble riddle? Or can we find a solution?

THE OLIVET PROBLEM
These statements of imminency have been a "hot potato" for pre-tribulationists to handle. They have faced the embarrassing choice of being accused of interrupting the flow of the context by saying that they refer to the beginning of the tribulation or of ignoring them altogether by depending on other and weaker verses for their doctrine of imminency. The latter choice is like running from the ocean in order to dive into a bucket, and the first choice is like trying to turn a mule around who doesn't want to be turned around.

For post-tribulationists the Olivet Discourse has been a fortress, for they are pleased to see that surprise can fit into a post-tribulational setting. Yet there is a crack in that fortress because they are hard put to explain the outright contradiction of the unknown day when Daniel and Revelation give the exact day.

Both sides, then, face a problem.

I myself faced this dilemma for quite awhile without any solution in sight. If I grabbed one horn, the bull would jab me with his other horn. On the one hand, I had to believe that the day of the post-tribulational return could be calculated because Daniel and Revelation said so. At the same time the post-tribulational context in Matthew 24 pressed down upon me with increasing force. I felt I was facing a brick wall. Why does God give us problems like this? He gives us problems to cause us to seek Him, to meditate, to dig a little deeper. Several times while researching this subject I have faced a brick wall. It was those occasions which led to the greatest discoveries.

So as I faced the problem of the Olivet Discourse, I sought an answer from God. After the answer came it seemed so simple that I wondered what had been so hard about it. I laughed at myself for not knowing it long before.

The Precedent. A similar dilemma faced the Jews of Old Testament times. They looked at passages in which two irreconcilable prophecies were woven together. Would the Messiah come suffering or would He come ruling? Who would ever dream that He would come twice, once to suffer and once to rule! Imagine the debates that could have gone on, each side trying to interpret it their way at the expense of the data on the other side. Then Jesus came and opened the Scriptures and made it clear.

Much of prophecy has double reference. This is a recognized and common rule of interpretation for the Old Testament. If for the Old, why not for the New? When we come to Matthew 24–25 maybe we can save ourselves a lot of argument if we will let this prophecy be like much other prophecy. Perhaps we can tackle the bull if we grab both horns. The perfect solution to the problem would be to let "the coming of the Son of man" refer at the same time to the post-trib and the pre-trib coming.

Double reference in Old Testament prophecy is readily accepted. Is double reference accepted in New Testament prophecy also? Yes, a passage that is generally agreed to have double reference is Luke 21:12–24 (part of the Olivet Discourse, by the way). In that passage the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 prefigures the destruction of Jerusalem during the tribulation. Therefore, we cannot limit double reference prophecy to the Old Testament. It happens in the New also.

When it first hit me that the solution to Matthew 24 might be double reference, I said to myself, "I must run back to Matthew 24 and read it again. I've got to check it out to see if it's really true or not."

The Clue. I grabbed my Bible and reread the illustration of the days of Noah very carefully (verses 37–42). In this illustration Jesus compares the surprise of His coming to the surprise of the flood. "And [they] knew not until the flood came, and took them all away ... watch, therefore; for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." When I read that I noticed a strange incongruity. Do you see it too? How strange that believers should be compared, not to Noah, but to the wicked. "They knew not ... Ye know not." I had read this many times before without being struck by this riddle. But now I was baffled.

Then I saw that it was more than a riddle; it was a clue. It was a clue to a whole new way of looking at Matthew 24.

But I am getting ahead of my story. First I want to back up and talk about the "fig tree" and "this generation" which occur earlier in Matthew 24.

DO MODERN EVENTS HELP US DATE THE RAPTURE?
The Fig Tree. Look at these verses:

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; when his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors (Matthew 24:32–33).
What does the fig tree represent? Does it represent the nation Israel? What does the putting forth leaves represent? Does it speak of Israel's becoming a nation in 1948? Does the budding of the fig tree mean that we can approximate the time of the rapture? How can we know the correct interpretation?

Jesus gives the interpretation, and this should erase all doubt as to the meaning. Jesus says the putting forth of leaves represents the coming to pass of "all these things." What are "all these things"? The very things He has just spoken of, namely events to occur during the tribulation period. Read Matthew 24 and see if Jesus speaks of Israel's becoming a nation. I can't find it. Jesus does speak of the "beginning of sorrows" and the "great tribulation." These two time periods, I tend to believe, form the two halves of the seven-year tribulation. Whether or not you agree with this, one thing remains clear: Jesus never spoke of Israel becoming a nation. So there is no contextual basis for reading the nationhood of Israel in the fig leaves. Safety of interpretation comes only by sticking to Jesus' own interpretation.

One may object that if the nationhood of Israel is not in the context, then it finds its basis from other Scripture. Well, all it takes to answer that is a little counting. Remember, a concordance is a Bible student's best friend. If you were to consult your best friend and count the references, you would discover that the fig tree stands for Israel only one-tenth of the times it is used in the Bible. Furthermore, even the few verses where the fig tree does stand for the nation, not one of them supports the idea that the leaves represent Israel's becoming a nation.

Consider also, the parallel passage in Luke 21:29. From it we learn that Jesus is not singling out the fig tree over any other tree, because He is actually referring to "all the trees." This should disperse any idea of one particular symbol for Israel being on Jesus' mind. According to Luke 21:31 the fig tree signals the kingdom of God (millennium), not the pre-trib rapture.

What do the leaves of the fig tree represent? They represent the coming to pass of "all these things" that Jesus has spoken of earlier in Matthew 24. Notice the word "all." It reads not, "When you see these things begin to come to pass." No, not the beginning, not some of these things, but when you see all these things, then the fig tree has budded, then you know the end is near. Have you seen the abomination of desolation? If not, then you haven't seen the fig tree bud.

If the rapture were a hundred years away, that future generation would still see "all these things" that Jesus listed in Matthew 24. From the little word "all" to the broad context in Matthew 24, the budding of the fig tree refers to the tribulation events Jesus has named, not to some event in 1948.

Can we approximate the time of the rapture by watching the fig tree? No, the fig tree will bud after we are gone. I don't want to be around to watch "all these things" which Jesus spoke of. I hope I am raptured before that.

This Generation. Then consider these verses:

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 24:34–35).
What does "this generation" mean? Does it mean the generation living which sees these signs? Or does it mean the people of Israel? The former interpretation defines a generation as 30, 40, or 70 years. The latter interpretation allows the generation (or people) of Israel to span the centuries. Which is correct? Both meanings are theoretically possible for the Greek word "generation." But which meaning makes sense in this context?

Does a generation of 30 or 40 years make sense? If Jesus meant a generation of 30 or 40 years dated from the time of the signs (which are tribulation signs, remember), then Jesus would be saying, "Thirty or forty years shall not pass before seven years of tribulation passes." This does not make sense.

It does make sense, though, to say that the people of Israel will not pass from the earth until all the things promised her have been fulfilled. She will not be wiped out by her enemies; she will survive until God finally gathers her from the four corners of the earth into her own land in peace and prosperity.

Not only does the latter interpretation make more sense to us, but it would have made more sense to the disciples who were listening. Rather than being concerned about a far-off generation which watches end-time events, they were concerned about the national promises to Israel. They became concerned when Jesus told them the temple would be demolished so that not one stone would be left upon another. If the temple would pass away, what would happen to God's promises to Israel? This made them ask about His coming (which they knew would involve a restoration of the temple and of the nation). The disciples' questions arose out of concern for their people, and so they would understand when Jesus responded, "This line of people shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

This interpretation not only makes more sense in the context, but it better suits the grammar. "This" generation points to something close at hand, namely, the existing nation. If a far-off generation were intended, more likely the word would have been "that" generation. The demonstrative pronoun is the tipoff.

For more confirmation we can go to the following verse (verse 35) which illustrates and illuminates the meaning. "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Such a grand statement is more fitting to guarantee the security of a people. The line of people is more secure than "heaven and earth." "My words shall not pass away" corresponds to the sure promises to that people.

Israel's Guarantee

Verse 34
This generation (line of people) shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled.

Verse 35
Heaven and earth shall pass away,
but my words shall not pass away.

The Greek language has another word which means "nation." This made me wonder why Jesus didn't say "nation" instead of "generation" if that is what He meant. Perhaps "nation" wouldn't fit because the nation as a political unit did pass away—they had no nation of Israel for centuries—but the line, the stock of people, continued on.

Why do we say all this about the "fig tree" and "this generation"? Because we want to show that the rapture cannot be dated. Some zealous and well-meaning Christians try to predict the rapture using the budding of the fig tree and calculating a generation of years. Various calculations use various starting points and various lengths of generations, showing that the entire speculation is not on solid ground.

Interpreting from the context before and after and on all sides, the fig tree buds after the rapture and "this generation" refers to the people of Israel rather than to a period of 30, 40, or 70 years. This means we cannot calculate the time of the rapture. It will come as a surprise.

(Perhaps in a secondary sense, "this generation" refers to the forty years from the time of Christ to the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. If so, this would answer the disciples' question about when the temple would be destroyed. But because of the connection of verses—or disconnection—I cannot tell if this is the case.)



What About "Signs of the Times"? If the fig tree has not yet budded, then of what significance is 1948 when Israel became a nation? That event sets the stage for the drama of the tribulation. Since we know that during the tribulation Israel will be a nation in their land, it can be argued that Israel must become a nation before the tribulation. On the other hand, it could be argued that the covenant between antichrist and Israel at the beginning of the tribulation (Daniel 9:27) could itself signal the forming of the nation. As long as the latter option was possible, there was nothing to say that Israel had to become a nation before the tribulation. However, God chose to let it happen ahead of time.

Some claim that the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967 was a fulfillment of Luke 21:24. However, Jerusalem will be overrun by Gentiles again during the tribulation (Revelation 11:2). This means that Luke 21:24 is not yet fulfilled, and it means that we cannot look to Luke 21:24 for a "pre-tribulational sign."

What about the other "signs of the times" like earthquakes and famines? Are they not increasing today? A certain pastor told me how he figured this out. Some books he read said that no sign whatsoever comes before the rapture. Other books said that we have "signs of the times" to tell us the rapture is approaching. Which was right? Signs or no signs? Well, this pastor said he sat back in his chair, wiggled his toes, and thought, "Technically speaking, the 'signs' belong to the tribulation period, but some signs 'slop over' into the church age. What some call 'signs of the times' are really a slopping over of tribulation signs." I think he's right. God is giving us a foretaste of what is to come. No signs are necessary before the rapture, but God in His mercy allows His bride to see some signs making her more eager for the meeting in the air.

Perhaps another sign "slopping over" into this age is the gift of tongues. When the disciples spoke in tongues in Acts two, what Biblical support did Peter offer for speaking in tongues? Joel 2:28–32. However, Joel 2:28–32, strictly speaking, is not to be fulfilled until the millennium because that is when the Spirit shall be poured out upon "all flesh." Historically, tongues have ceased according to 1 Corinthians 13:8. But if the millennial sign of tongues could spill over into Peter's time, then if tongues are reappearing today (as the nation of Israel has reappeared), it may also be a spilling over of millennial prophecy, showing us that the time is near. Of course, tongues should be used to build up the body of Christ, not to tear it apart.

At any rate, these signs give no time indication in terms of years; they merely tell us that the time is approaching. Personally, I think He will come soon. But I don't want you to be discouraged if He comes later than we expect.

He might come sooner than we expect. We cannot guess the time of the rapture. It comes in surprise. Remember this, because it is one key which unlocks the mystery of the Olivet problem.



THE RIDDLE OF NOAH
Now we are ready to return to our riddle about Noah. Study this passage closely and then we will consider some questions.

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not [they knew not, in Greek] until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.... Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come (Matthew 24:37–39,42).
Let me ask you a couple questions first, before I ask you a stumper.

Question one, the flood victims. Who do the flood victims represent? Jesus relates this illustration in order to make a comparison to the end times; so the flood victims must represent someone in the end times. Who? Remember the context. Jesus has been talking about the tribulation, and He told about His return after the tribulation. In this context, who do the flood victims represent?

The flood victims correspond to unbelievers who are destroyed at Christ's return. Just as the flood destroyed unbelievers of old, so Christ's return will destroy unbelievers of the end times. Just as the flood took those unbelievers by surprise, so Christ's return will take these unbelievers by surprise. This is obvious from the context, even to post-tribs, and it also harmonizes with Luke 17 where, as you recall, the flood represented Christ's return after the tribulation rather than the tribulation itself.


Question two, Noah. If the flood victims represent unbelievers during the tribulation, then who does Noah represent? Believers during the tribulation. This accords with Luke 17 where Noah represents tribulation saints.


Flood victims represent tribulation unbelievers

Noah represents tribulation saints


Question three, the stumper. Why does Jesus compare the disciples to the flood victims instead of to Noah? It doesn't fit. Are the disciples unbelievers? Will they be destroyed? Then why are they compared to the flood victims? Why not compare them to Noah? If Noah represents tribulation saints, then surely the disciples ought to be compared to Noah if the disciples represent tribulation saints. How do the disciples fit into the picture? Which category do they fall into?

For the answer to this question see next post

[DJHere]

Answer to question three first post.




Into which category will you put the disciples?

Flood victims
Unbelievers

Noah
Tribulation saints

Quite a stumper, isn't it? Neither category seems to fit. The disciples don't fall into the category of unbelievers. Yet Jesus refrains from putting them into the category of Noah.

The solution is quite simple. The disciples form a third category namely, church saints who will be raptured before the tribulation. Instantly the riddle dissolves. Now, instead of forcing the interpretation where it doesn't fit, the interpretation fits as naturally as a baby in a cradle.

Watch.



Surprised, But Safe. The disciples are like flood victims in one respect—they are surprised. The disciples are like Noah in another respect—they are safe. The disciples are unlike the flood victims, because the flood victims are unbelievers. The disciples are unlike Noah, because Noah knew the day the catastrophe would come (Genesis 7:4).

Therefore the disciples have similarities and dissimilarities to both groups, but they fit perfectly a third group, namely church saints who are surprised but safe. This diagram shows how the characteristics of all three groups easily fall into place without forcing one word of Scripture:







The arrows depict the destination of each group. Looking at the diagram you can see how easily the disciples fit into the category of church saints, and they cannot be stuffed into either of the other two categories, even with a very large shoehorn.

Why did Jesus compare the disciples to the flood victims instead of to Noah? Because Jesus wanted to illustrate surprise, and Noah was not surprised. Noah knew the day, just as tribulation saints will know the day. We will not know, and so, believe it or not, in one respect we are like unbelievers—we both will be surprised. Yes, unbelievers will be surprised because they will be deceived by antichrist and they will not be counting the days.

Because Jesus is coming in surprise for the church, He told us to "watch" (verse 42). "Watch" is in the present tense and the intended sense is, "Be continually watching now." This kind of command has force under pre-tribulationism, but a post-trib could more easily be tempted to say to himself, "I will not watch now; I will wait until the tribulation begins, to start watching." Watching now is confirmed by the reason for watching, "for ye know not what hour..." This implies that it could be any day now rather than implying that it could not yet be any of these days.

Why did Jesus not compare the disciples to Noah? We would expect Him to make the comparison to Noah, because Noah was saved and protected from wrath, but Jesus could not make the comparison to him because Noah knew seven days ahead of time, and Jesus was illustrating surprise. If the prophecy were single in viewpoint, then the disciples would have been compared to Noah, for church saints and tribulation saints would be one and the same and so the comparison would be made between the two. But since there are two different saved groups (one knowing and one not knowing) and since there are two different groups not knowing (one saved and one not saved), Jesus is giving the prophecy from a double viewpoint. The double viewpoint illuminates the comparisons and apparent contradictions, while the single viewpoint is stuck with disjointed comparisons and insoluble contradictions. How many times have we all read this passage before, not noticing the inconsistency that arises from the single viewpoint?

Am I trying to make all the details fit too perfectly? Maybe the illustration of Noah wasn't meant to fit like a hand in a glove. After all, this is a historical illustration and there aren't that many historical illustrations that Jesus could choose from. Even though He was the Master Teacher, maybe He couldn't think of a perfectly appropriate illustration and this was the best He could come up with.

With a historical illustration maybe He would have a limited repertoire to choose from, but what about the next illustration? It is not a historical illustration—it is one that Jesus designed from scratch so that it would suit His purpose to a tee. Why does it follow the same pattern as the Noah illustration? In fact Jesus gives not just one illustration, nor two illustrations, but three illustrations, and they all follow the same pattern.



THE RIDDLE OF THE GOODMAN
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have

For the rest of the article go to:

http://www.rapturesolution.com/beechick/Book/Olivet.htm#luke21.31

[ann s.]

maybe generation is a condition and not a time frame.

[just_jim]

Originally posted by pilgrimian
Back to the bit about the generation not passing which is mentioned in Luke 21:32. In context this is the Parable of the Fig Tree (which I personally think has been misapplied to re-establishment of Israel in 1948).

As the Fig Tree blossoms one knows that summer is on its way...since it blossoms in Spring. What needs to be seen in this Scripture is:



In harmony, it is helpful to see the Matthew 24 passage concerning the Fig Tree:



In my understanding the Fig Tree is talking about the Abomination of Desolation, which marks the half-way point of the Tribulation. Anyone who knows Scripture then will know that summer is certainly on its way...Christ will be "at the door" within 1260 days. That generation will certainly not pass away.

So it isn't necessarily the present generation (us) that will not pass away since we witnessed Israel's re-establishment. Rather, those who witness the Abomination of Desolation will see the establishment of something much more exciting (though the establishment of Israel does excite me)...the Messianic Kingdom (the Millenium).

Godspeed,
Matthew

_____________________

"those who witness the Abomination of Desolation will see the establishment of something much more exciting (though the establishment of Israel does excite me)...the Messianic Kingdom (the Millenium)."

Interesting. Why does the 'Messianic Kingdom' include 'strangers'?

Eze 47:22 And it shall come to pass, [that] ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.



Re: the figtree, generation [et al]...

Hab 3:17 Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither [shall] fruit [be] in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and [there shall be] no herd in the stalls:


I believe the proper meaning of "generation" in this context [of thread] refers to a continuing seed-line. I hope everyone realizes Christ was perfect in his generations? ..."A lamb without spot" (Please see Matt1:1 & Luke 3:23+ if not.)

Despite multiple satanic attempts to "cut ...off" Christ's seed-line...

Jer 11:19 But I [was] like a lamb [or] an ox [that] is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, [saying], Let us destroy the tree with the fruit thereof, and let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name may be no more remembered.


We can also see this "perfect generation" in...

Gen 6:9 These [are] the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [and] perfect in his generations (or genealogy back to Adam), [and] Noah walked with God.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];



Jer 5:26 For among my people are found wicked [men]: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.



Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire



Mar 11:13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not [yet].

Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.

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Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I also believe the 'enmity' mentioned above was done away with at the cross...

Eph 2:15,16 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

...negating the past seed-line separation of Jew from gentile...

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.