Embracing our Infirmities

[BHiles]

I am not an avid golf fan but it was hard not to at least watch the highlights of the news events coming out from the US Open last week. Tiger Woods playing in obvious pain that we later found out was a stress fracture and a torn ACL came back from certain defeat with some incredible late round shots. Some of his shots seemed almost like there were magnets in the cup and in the ball. His focus was absolutely out of this world

It reminded me of years ago at the height of the Chicago Bulls dynasty I remember a certain game 5 playoff against the Utah Jazz. Word had gotten out that Michael Jordan had a horrendous flu waking up in the middle of the night, sweating profusely, shaking, and feeling as if he was going to die. It really had the fans feeling like without Jordan there was no hope. The series was tied 2-2 and the doctors told Jordan "There's no way you'll be able to play Game 5"

Jordan barely able to sit up straight in his seat let alone energy to play a basketball game dressed and came out to play. During the first quarter he barely is able to make it up and down the floor and Utah took a 16 point lead but as time progressed he began running faster and harder and by the second quarter he would score 17. Battling back throughout the game still hitting shots and being effective the last seconds of the game begin to tick off with the bulls behind and then tied 85-85 with 26 seconds left Jordan makes a weak fake to Kerr, but then quickly fires a pass to Pippen. Pippen was guarded, leaving Jordan open. Pippen quickly fires the ball back to Jordan. The clock shows 0:26. With Stockton's hand right in his face, Jordan shoots from beyond the three-point line. The ball hits nothing but net.

Focus or Distraction
For some reason man has been given the ability to either become distracted by infirmity or incredibly focused like a laser beam by it. Time and time again we have seen in the natural a representation of that which happens in the spiritual. The little 4 feet 9 inches and 80 lb Kerri Strug helps win a gold medal for Team USA with a severely sprained ankle. The understanding of weakness our weakness can help us to be extremely focused to make up for the weakness.

Paul also had an infirmity that he asked God to remove three times and God responded my grace is sufficient for thee.

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.


Paul was able to focus on his mission for God and was able to take part in the incredible work and communication that established the doctrines that God wanted to impart to the church. I believe a huge amount of his success was because of his weakness, his infirmity. He stated that He took pleasure in them because he eventually understood their useful purpose. God promises grace for these infirmities that is available for each of us that will meet the demands of the suffering. Some teach that we should all be healed, that it is a lack of faith if we have an infirmity. That is a lie from the pit of hell. These wolves preaching healing revivals are liars. Most of them are taking Satan's message to the masses and destroying God's people and church bodies.


What About Healing
It is not wrong to pray for healing. God said we should. Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: But if God says wait or He says no we must trust His heart. It is the most difficult thing for many of us to do. If you have ever been hurt by someone, especially a parent or a spouse it is very easy to transfer the feelings of distrust to God. Don't let your hurt be transferred on God. Give God the benefit of your doubts. Trust His heart.


Do not waste your suffering.
These things do not come upon us for nothing. They are either for purpose to bring you closer to Him and to fulfill His mission through you or they are used to mold others around you to His likeness. But if we allow Satan to use our infirmity to distract us from God or even worse if we allow it to accuse God then we suffer with no benefit. Wasted suffering has got to be the most painful suffering their could ever be. Use the infirmity to bring you closer to God's heart as you seek that days grace.


This Kind
Now some may say well "I really don't have any infirmity. I am blessed but I would also like to be able to focus on God's mission for my life." God gave us a way to do that and that is through fasting. If you have ever fasted, a true fast of food and everything other than the necessities of life you would find that in some amount of time you begin to experience a laser like focus on God and begin to understand some things that were previously hidden from you or complex situations in your life that become quite clear. Fasting creates a temporary infirmity of hunger and as you deny self your spirit and your soul become acutely aware of the spiritual. If you have never fasted then I would highly recommend that you research out a biblical and healthy way to do this in you life on a periodic basis. Fasting is not a way to make God do anything. It is a way to remove the physical distractions from your mind so you can better hear from the Spirit of God. I guarantee that you will not come away from it without being unimaginably changed.

Humility
Infirmities keep us humble. We come to realize that our strengths our totally to be dependent of Jesus Christ. It is one thing to know that as a young person with head knowledge and a totally different thing to understand it once life has beaten you up a little bit. With age many will try to grasp at their youth. Some call it mid life crisis. But some will have understanding that this body is temporal. It is dying. The things once done in might and power of the physical are beginning to wane. A deeper understanding of the need for might and power of God should grow.

Be Glorified
Our weakness does not only help our focus but its ultimate goal is that God be glorified in all things. If a man who is handsome and well dressed, eloquent in speech and educated at the best that seminaries have to offer it is easy for the masses to flock to him to hear a great orater. But a country preacher who may have not gotten all the education, not especially handsome and speaks with a long draw but spent the entire week in the word of God and praying and fasting understanding that he needed to the power of God on His life to make a difference, God just may use him more powerfully because God gets the glory. Infirmities allow God to be glorified if you allow Him to be. Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease. The eternal rewards for suffering by a poor sickly woman praying for her preacher may be greater than the rewards of the preacher.


Mr 10:31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.


May your eternal reward be great.

Brent

[Blessed2B]

What About Healing
[FONT=Verdana]It is not wrong to pray for healing. God said we should. Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: But if God says wait or He says no we must trust His heart.


:puke

I really wish these type of teachers would stop quoting half a scripture in order to fit their own agenda.

Let's take another look at James chapter 5 and allow the word to finish this time:
James 5:14-15 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Just because God's word doesn't fit your theological understanding, doesn't mean you should make Him out to be a liar.
It says the prayer of faith SHALL save the sick. Not "might", not "could possibly", not "if God sees fit".

Does it happen today that people DO pray for healing and DO have faith, yet walk away still sick?
Absolutely! But the problem is not with God and his Word. The problem lies within our own understanding.

Yes, there are times we don't really believe it...so faith can play a part.
Is this excuse abused by some? Of course. It's not always a "lack of faith".
It could be unforgiveness, either on your own part, or for not forgiving others.
There are too many reasons to go into as to WHY it hasn't taken place in your life, but the scripture is clear.

I don't think we should try to change it's meaning based on our limited knowledge and experience.

[BHiles]

:puke

I really wish these type of teachers would stop quoting half a scripture in order to fit their own agenda.

Let's take another look at James chapter 5 and allow the word to finish this time:
James 5:14-15 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Just because God's word doesn't fit your theological understanding, doesn't mean you should make Him out to be a liar.
It says the prayer of faith SHALL save the sick. Not "might", not "could possibly", not "if God sees fit".

Does it happen today that people DO pray for healing and DO have faith, yet walk away still sick?
Absolutely! But the problem is not with God and his Word. The problem lies within our own understanding.

Yes, there are times we don't really believe it...so faith can play a part.
Is this excuse abused by some? Of course. It's not always a "lack of faith".
It could be unforgiveness, either on your own part, or for not forgiving others.
There are too many reasons to go into as to WHY it hasn't taken place in your life, but the scripture is clear.

I don't think we should try to change it's meaning based on our limited knowledge and experience.



I want to be clear on what you are stating.

Are you stating that scripture states that everybody who prays will be healed if they are right with God (forgiveness ect?) and have done everything scripture says and have enough faith?

[Moony2ns]

Wonderful post Brent. It speaks specifically to my situation and it was a good reminder of why the Lord has allowed this in my life. As a result of my weakness, the Lord has made our family stronger and closer together. He may not see fit to heal this specific disease in me, but He will use this to answer several years of fervent petitions to Him. :hail Meanwhile, my faith is strengthened each passing day as I learn to lean on the promises of the Lord.

[Blessed2B]

I want to be clear on what you are stating.

Are you stating that scripture states that everybody who prays will be healed if they are right with God (forgiveness ect?) and have done everything scripture says and have enough faith?


Lets set aside what I'M stating for a moment. What does the Word of God say?

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Looking at "Shall Save" in the original Greek: SOZO
To save, deliver, protect, to heal, preserve, make whole

As a lost person without Christ prays the "sinners prayer" and accepts salvation (SOZO) it is accepted that "by faith" that person has received salvation. In all cases that I've ever ran across, that salvation had no immediate outward manifestation. The person just accepted the fact they were saved.
Why should (SOZO) be any different in James 5?
It's the same word, that you must accept as truth whether you see an outward manifestation or not.

The Jewish New testament commentary states:
James 5:14-15
The Lord heals the sick among his people, according to this passage, in response to the prayer offered with trust. Healing was one of Yeshua's three main ministries (Mt 4:23-24), and he promised that his followers would do yet greater works than he did (Yn 14:12). In addition, the Holy Spirit, whom he has sent to his followers (Yn 15:26), grants to some gifts of healing (1 C 12:9, 30).

Rub olive oil on him. Anointing with oil is not merely a ceremony. In biblical times, olive oil was medicine (Isaiah 1:6, Lk 10:34), and being anointed with oil was considered physically pleasant (Psalms 23:5, 133:2-3).

Now so that there may be no question as to what I'm stating, I'll go into detail:

Through the work of the cross, the believer can attain physical health,
as well as the salvation of his soul.

Isaiah 53:5
Matthew 8:17
I Peter 2:24

Therefore, physical healing is closely associated in scripture with spiritual
deliverance and forgiveness of sin.

Psalms 103:3
Isaiah 33:24; 53:3-5
Matthew 4:24; 8:16-17, 9:26; 12:22
Mark 2:1-12
Luke 5:18, 20-23; 6:17-18; 8:2,36; 11:14;13:16
Acts 5:16; 10:38
James 5:15

What are the spiritual requirements necessary for obtaining physical healing?
One must first have the desire to be healed.

Matthew 20:30-33
Mark 10:46-52
John 5:6
He must believe that God is able to heal him.

Matthew 8:10, 13; 9:2, 28, 29
Luke 17:19
Acts 3:16; 14:9
Matthew 9:23 (Note: This was the only question that Jesus asked them.)
James 5:14-16

The promise of healing has always been conditional upon obedience
to God's commands. ("If .... ")

Leviticus 26 (Deuteronomy 28)
Exodus 15:26; 23:25
Deuteronomy 7:12,15
Isaiah 58:8
John 5:14
Did Jesus always minister immediate relief from sickness and disease?
Scripture shows that usually the healing Jesus ministered was received immediately.

Matthew 9:22; 15:28; 17:18; 20:34
Mark 1:31, 42; 2:12; 5:42; 7:35; 10:52
Luke 5:13, 25; 8:47;4:39; 13:13
John 5:9
However, the blind man was healed in two steps.

Mark 8:23-25
The ten lepers received their healing "as they went."

Luke 17:14
How was healing ministered in Bible days?
Through the laying on of hands.

Matthew 8:2-4, 14-15; 9:29; 20:34
Mark 1:41; 7:32-33; 5:23; 6:4; 7:32-33; 8:23, 25; 16:18
Luke 13:13; 22:50-51
Acts 9:12,17; 28:8
James 5:14
By the anointing of oil by the elders.

Mark 6:13
James 5:14
Through prayer.

Genesis 20:7, 17; 25:21
Numbers 12:13
I Samuel 1:7-19, etc.
I Kings 13:4-6
2 Kings 20:1-6 (Isaiah 38:1-5)
2 Chronicles 32:24
Matthew 21:22 (Mark 11:24)
James 5:15-16
Through fasting.

I Samuel 1:7-19, etc.
Isaiah 58:8, etc.
Mark 9:29
Acts 9:8-9, 17-19
By the teaching of God's Word.

Psalms 107:20 (Note: In the Hebrew, the present tense
is used: " ... sends ... and heals.")
Proverbs 4:20-22
Acts 8:5-7
By special miracles of God.

Numbers 21:8-9 (brazen serpent)
2 Kings 20:7; Isaiah 38:21 (lump of figs put on boil)
Mark 7:32, 3 (fingers put in ears of deaf)
Mark 8:22 (spit put on eyes of blind)
John 9:6-7, 11 (clay put on eyes of blind)
Acts 19:11-12 (handkerchiefs taken from hands of Paul)
Acts 3:7 (lame man lifted up by the hand)
By a creative word. (See Mark 11:23)

Mark 5:41 ("Arise!")
Mark 7:34 ("Be opened.")
Mark 9:25; Luke 4:39; 5:39 (Rebuked the sickness)
Luke 5:13 ("Be thou clean.")
Acts 9:33-34 ("Arise ... ")
Through simple faith in His promises.

Matthew 8:8
Mark 10:52
Luke 17:19
John 4:50
Acts 3:16; 14:9
Hebrews 11:11
By an individual's act of faith.

Matthew 14:35, 36
Luke 8:43-48
By obedience to a simple command.

2 Kings 5:10, 14 (told to wash in Jordan seven times)
Luke 17:14 (commanded to show themselves to the priests)
John 5:8, 9, etc. (told to pick up the bed and walk)
John 9:7, 10-11 (told to wash in pool of Siloam)
Acts 14:10 (told to stand up)

The only thing by which God is limited in His power to heal is our own
unbelief. Scripture says that in one place Jesus "could do no mighty work
... because of their unbelief."

Mark 6:5, 6 (Matthew 13:58)
James 1:6, 7

Why do people sometimes not receive their healing?

It may be due to a lack of faith.

James 1:6, 7 .

Sin or disobedience may be the barrier.

Psalms 66:18
Isaiah 59:1, 2
Jeremiah 5:25
John 9:31

It may be because of a wrong motive (James 4:3; Mark 8:11;
Luke 11:16) or insincere intentions (i.e., pride; testing God, etc.).
We must be careful to consider our own motive in praying for
another's healing. Jesus was "moved with compassion" to heal the
sick (Matthew 14:14; 20:34; Mark 1:41) He never healed anyone
simply for publicity, or "to be seen." Rather, He fled from them
(John 5:13).

The person might really be in need of spiritual deliverance.

Matthew 4:24; 12:22; 17:18
Mark 9:28, 29
Luke 6:17, 18; 8:2, 36
Acts 5:16; 10:38

So to give you a straight answer to your question, YES, I believe it is Gods will for all his children to be healed of all manner of dis-ease and the Word of God plainly states that the prayer of faith SHALL save the sick.

If there is no manifestation of healing, that can only mean one of two things:
1 - God is a liar
2 - There is a lack on Mans part (lack of understanding, lack of faith, lack of forgiveness, etc.)

My belief is that the latter is the obvious reason.

[BHiles]

So to give you a straight answer to your question, YES, I believe it is Gods will for all his children to be healed of all manner of dis-ease and the Word of God plainly states that the prayer of faith SHALL save the sick.

If there is no manifestation of healing, that can only mean one of two things:
1 - God is a liar
2 - There is a lack on Mans part (lack of understanding, lack of faith, lack of forgiveness, etc.)

My belief is that the latter is the obvious reason.

You are quite mistaken. And for the record "these type of teachers" was me.

[watchman]

...
If there is no manifestation of healing, that can only mean one of two things:
1 - God is a liar
2 - There is a lack on Mans part (lack of understanding, lack of faith, lack of forgiveness, etc.)

My belief is that the latter is the obvious reason.

Unfairly judgmental and accusatory to so many.

I was healed miraculously, as was my youngest daughter, yet she also has and continues to have asthma and has nearly been hospitalized several times, (but due to my DW's ability to "be a nurse" and the doctor's ability to work with us, we did not have to put her in the hospital (and add stress).

I still struggle with fibromialgia and some other things, yet I have not been sick in over two years, not a cold, not flu, nothing. But not all things were healed.

I have observed the same things in others, and have observed some who never received healing in their body, yet they defiantly had faith and evidence of it in their lives.

But the very work of salvation, heals us eternally, and our temporary fleshly dwelling is simply that, temporary.

While I believe G-d can heal a person to whatever degree He desires, to claim that one is not healed because they lack faith etc, puts one in the position of wrongfully judging the condition of another's heart, relationship with G-d, or G-d Himself.

It is a dangerous place to put one's self, and they should be sure, at the very least, to remove their shoes...

[carmen]

Lets set aside what I'M stating for a moment. What does the Word of God say?

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Looking at "Shall Save" in the original Greek: SOZO
To save, deliver, protect, to heal, preserve, make wholeYou are taking all the meanings of "shall save" and ignoring all of them but one--to heal.

God's definition of "shall SAVE" is not always "shall HEAL." To interpret it that way is to ignore not only the many Christians that have faith multiplied many, many times our own and yet are sick or injured in spite of continual prayer but also scriptural instances of health issues He did not heal, such as that of Paul. Has God given Joni Erickson Tada the ability to walk? Would you claim she lacks faith or has some secret sin? I don't think so. Was Ruth Graham's sickness, which resulted in death, simply a lack of faith in the God she served faithfully for decades? I think not. My mother suffered cancer for years and saw prayer after prayer answered--and yet, the one prayer that we all longed for most was NOT answered; she died in 1980 when I was only 12 years old. Was that lack of faith or secret sin or some other issue? If it was, why did He answer so many of her other prayers?

The fact is, God allows sickness to come to many. Some He heals, some He does not. But all is used to His glory, and every single one of His children ARE "saved" though they may not be "healed."

God's ultimate goal for our lives is not to make us healthy and happy and well. His purpose is to make us like Christ, and use everything in our lives for the good of those that love Him. If making us like Christ, or using our sickness for the good of ourselves or others that love Him serves that purpose, then He most certainly does allow it even unto death in some cases.

And if teachers saying otherwise makes YOU :puke, then I wuld say that it is the teaching that somehow people that are incredibly faithful, but still not healed, are harboring some secret sin or simply don't have enough faith that makes me :puke.

[Rainbo2]

You are taking all the meanings of "shall save" and ignoring all of them but one--to heal.

God's definition of "shall SAVE" is not always "shall HEAL." To interpret it that way is to ignore not only the many Christians that have faith multiplied many, many times our own and yet are sick or injured in spite of continual prayer but also scriptural instances of health issues He did not heal, such as that of Paul. Has God given Joni Erickson Tada the ability to walk? Would you claim she lacks faith or has some secret sin? I don't think so. Was Ruth Graham's sickness, which resulted in death, simply a lack of faith in the God she served faithfully for decades? I think not. My mother suffered cancer for years and saw prayer after prayer answered--and yet, the one prayer that we all longed for most was NOT answered; she died in 1980 when I was only 12 years old. Was that lack of faith or secret sin or some other issue? If it was, why did He answer so many of her other prayers?

The fact is, God allows sickness to come to many. Some He heals, some He does not. But all is used to His glory, and every single one of His children ARE "saved" though they may not be "healed."

God's ultimate goal for our lives is not to make us healthy and happy and well. His purpose is to make us like Christ, and use everything in our lives for the good of those that love Him. If making us like Christ, or using our sickness for the good of ourselves or others that love Him serves that purpose, then He most certainly does allow it even unto death in some cases.

And if teachers saying otherwise makes YOU :puke, then I wuld say that it is the teaching that somehow people that are incredibly faithful, but still not healed, are harboring some secret sin or simply don't have enough faith that makes me :puke.



Well Said.

Blessed2B I have cancer. I have prayed, fasted, confessed my sins and asked to be shown in what ways I can better please Him, I've had hands laid on me, I've been anointed with oil, I read my bible nightly and pray to understand what it says and to be shown how it applies to my life, I've had the elders of the church pray over me, and I KNOW that He can heal me. I, so far, have not been healed. What am I doing wrong?

4 very dear christian friend of mine have died of cancer, did they not have enough faith? I know that many on this board suffer from various health conditions do they have some hidden sin?

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but to me who has cancer, it sounds an awful lot like you are judging me because of my illness. Not to mention limiting God to a bunch of human rules.

I pray that you never have a chronic health condition that God chooses not to heal for whatever reason, and find out how those of us with chronic health conditions feel when we read a post like yours.

[Blessed2B]

to claim that one is not healed because they lack faith etc, puts one in the position of wrongfully judging the condition of another's heart, relationship with G-d, or G-d Himself.


I NEVER said I was judging that person based on anything other than scripture.
Maybe it's a lack of faith, maybe it's sin, OR as I stated before, a simple lack of understanding on OUR part.

I include myself in "our" because there are things I believe based on the Word, and personally have NOT seen those things manifest in my life.

Instead of blaming God, or holding a little pity party for myself, I continue searching out the scriptures to find where my lack of understanding comes into play.
I know I'm saved, so with that comes the blessings of Abraham through faith.
I know I'm forgiven, and don't hold unforgiveness in my heart.
I know I'm not practicing sin.

So if those areas are taken care of in my life, there must be something else holding back the manifestation of what I'm believing for.
And without "judging" anything, I acknowledge that there is a reason UNKNOWN TO ME that I'm not seeing the answer yet.

I'm not agreeing with the WoF'ers that it's as simple as a lack of faith.
Jesus said that in order to move a mountain, all you needed was faith that amounted to the size of a mustard seed.
Since I'm not believing to move a mountain (I'm looking to something much smaller) - I obviously have plenty faith for what I'm believing for.

It all falls back to a lack of understanding on OUR part.

I honestly believe that the bible means exactly what it says.
The prayer of faith shall save the sick. Period.

If the effectual fervent prayer that I've prayed doesn't seem to be working, the fault does not lie on God's end, but on mine.
Just because we don't see it happen in the lives of the "greatest men and women of God" doesn't mean we should reinterpret the Word to make it fit our understanding.

Of course there are people that are in very intimate relationships with our Lord, spend time fasting and in prayer, attend services regularly, help the needy, work in the church, preach the gospel, and are still sick!
But that doesn't mean it's because they are supposed to be.
Somewhere, we lack an understanding and that is what is holding us back.

[BHiles]

Well Said.

Blessed2B I have cancer. I have prayed, fasted, confessed my sins and asked to be shown in what ways I can better please Him, I've had hands laid on me, I've been anointed with oil, I read my bible nightly and pray to understand what it says and to be shown how it applies to my life, I've had the elders of the church pray over me, and I KNOW that He can heal me. I, so far, have not been healed. What am I doing wrong?

4 very dear christian friend of mine have died of cancer, did they not have enough faith? I know that many on this board suffer from various health conditions do they have some hidden sin?

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but to me who has cancer, it sounds an awful lot like you are judging me because of my illness. Not to mention limiting God to a bunch of human rules.

I pray that you never have a chronic health condition that God chooses not to heal for whatever reason, and find out how those of us with chronic health conditions feel when we read a post like yours.
:hug

I helped my mother last year with cancer. I will pray for you that God heal you and reveal Himself in a deep and compassionate way each day.

She was a faith filled woman. A woman doing her part for the kingdom of God. We fervently prayed. We had her annointed and prayed by the elders of the church she attended. After 9 months of struggle I placed her hand in Christ's as He led her on home.

My uncle who was doing nothing for God. Was so worried about missing a television show that he was ready to leave the hospital early before they were done testing him for a heart that was only pumping with 5% blood flow. He was so full of fear. I prayed with him on the phone to focus his eyes on Christ. Miracuolosly was healed after three test showed almost complete blockage they were testing for surgery. He was prayed for and prayed over by pastors and even on here and the fourth test right before surgery so complete healing. No blockage whatsoever.

This man was far from right with God. He was far from useful for the kingdom's sake and in comparison to my mother was night and day and God miraculously healed him. Why? Because God chose to. It was grace. Not favor for forgiving nor being forgiven. God unmerited Grace. Do I fault God. Absolutely not. He is Her child. He knew best. He wanted her home.


You see our sins are already forgiven. There is no unforgiven sin for the beleiver in the eyes of God. We are not on the scale of justice. Christ won this battle and in God's eyes our healing is complete. We just have not realized it yet. And whether or not He chooses our realization to be here and now or then and there it is completely up to my precious Saviour.

Trust God's heart.

[Rainbo2]

:hug

I helped my mother last year with cancer. I will pray for you that God heal you and reveal Himself in a deep and compassionate way each day.

She was a faith filled woman. A woman doing her part for the kingdom of God. We fervently prayed. We had her annointed and prayed by the elders of the church she attended. After 9 months of struggle I placed her hand in Christ's as He led her on home.

My uncle who was doing nothing for God. Was so worried about missing a television show that he was ready to leave the hospital early before they were done testing him for a heart that was only pumping with 5% blood flow. He was so full of fear. I prayed with him on the phone to focus his eyes on Christ. Miracuolosly was healed after three test showed almost complete blockage they were testing for surgery. He was prayed for and prayed over by pastors and even on here and the fourth test right before surgery so complete healing. No blockage whatsoever.

This man was far from right with God. He was far from useful for the kingdom's sake and in comparison to my mother was night and day and God miraculously healed him. Why? Because God chose to. It was grace. Not favor for forgiving nor being forgiven. God unmerited Grace. Do I fault God. Absolutely not. He is Her child. He knew best. He wanted her home.


You see our sins are already forgiven. There is no unforgiven sin for the beleiver in the eyes of God. We are not on the scale of justice. Christ won this battle and in God's eyes our healing is complete. We just have not realized it yet. And whether or not He chooses our realization to be here and now or then and there it is completely up to my precious Saviour.

Trust God's heart.



:hug Thanks for your prayers.

I'm so sorry about your mom. I lost mine, to the same type of cancer I have now, when I was 12. No matter what age we are it's never easy to have our moms pass on.

That's so great about your Uncle. I pray that he is now serving the Lord.

I'm doing pretty well right now, according to the last set of scans that I had done last month the cancer is just hanging around, not growing but not shrinking. I'm hoping to be able to participate in a clinical trial, since as of now that is about my only option unless God chooses to just heal me outright.

One thing I have learned with all this is that each day is a gift and each day I feel good (which is most) is an extra special gift from God. I've learned not to go by a diagnosis but by how I am feeling. I praise God for that.

[carmen]

Maybe it's a lack of faith, maybe it's sin, OR as I stated before, a simple lack of understanding on OUR part.1 John 5

14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

This is key. Just because we ask for something from God, doesn't mean it's His will to give it to us. To use your example, just because Jesus said we could move mountains if we had enough faith, doesn't mean that God is going to permit us to do so any time we want to. Faith is not enough to accomplish anything it is first God's will for it to be accomplished. This is because anything that is done, is not done through OUR FAITH. It is done ONLY through God's power and His will.

This is a primary principle of the Bible and everything else we read there must be understood in this light--God is in control, not us and not our faith, no matter how much of it He may have given us. Just because we want it and we summon up enough faith to get it, and live a pure enough life to "deserve" it doesn't mean He is going to give it to us.

He gives to us of His riches according to His will. Sometimes His will for us is trial and suffering and sickness and death. The bible is replete with stories of that; you find it in the life of Christ and the apostles, as well as the saints of the OT.

Certainly He always "saves" us in the end, but His definition of "saving" doesn't always include healing this side of heaven.

[carmen]

Also, please forgive me if I was overly harsh in my earlier response (prior the one above).

This subject is close to my heart, partly because of my mother, and partly because it is so insulting to so many fine saints--my brothers and sisters--that the world simply isn't worthy of.

That makes it tough for me to be gentle on this teaching, but I do not want to be rough or unloving to a family member in Christ. I am sorry.

[watchman]

I NEVER said I was judging that person based on anything other than scripture....


Yeah, you did.

There is a lack on Mans part (lack of understanding, lack of faith, lack of forgiveness, etc.)

My belief is that the latter is the obvious reason.

Can you tell me any reason a person would not be healed, if they have sufficient faith, believe, understand and have forgiveness? Is there anything you can point to that would justify why they are not healed? Just one thing, so I can understand.

And if my question is unscriptural, please help me understand where, because I am very strongly positioned on this, and the last thing I want is to be wrongfully holding and espousing on something that is contrary to scripture.

I do not know why all people cannot be or are not healed. As it has nothing to do with a lack of faith on their part, since those who have believed and had faith in what the scripture states are still not healed.
Then I must state that it is beyond man to know, and endless speculation harms those who at the worst time and struggle in their life certainly do not need is an accusation.

I guess I cannot find anyway to simply let it go unchallenged as it i applied about faith and healing.

Can healing be by faith? Yes.
Can lack of healing be from a lack of faith? Yes.

Is all healing only from faith? No.
Is a lack of faith the only reason for a lack of healing? No.


All dogs are animals, not all animals are dogs.

I hope that helps.

[ChristineMarie]

Praying for all those involved in this thread right now and for those reading.


And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Romans 8:28 ESV


More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance

Romans 5:3 ESV


Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.

1 Peter 4:12 ESV

So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day.

2 Corinthians 4:16 ESV


For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

Romans 8:18

[Persuaded]

BHiles - thank you for posting this thread. My mother is a migraine sufferer and we have discussed this topic for years. She will be blessed by your comments.

Rainbo2 - Something you said about 2 years ago really touched my heart. The thread was about death and you stated (something to this effect) "God will heal her here or will heal her in Heaven - regardless, she will be healed." It made such a profound impact on how I looked at sickness and has helped me deal with the deaths of loved ones in the past 2 years. I can celebrate the fact that they are healed. Thank you. I haven't been on the board much for the last year as I've started working full time - but please know that I do pray for you my dear sister in Christ.

[Rainbo2]

BHiles - thank you for posting this thread. My mother is a migraine sufferer and we have discussed this topic for years. She will be blessed by your comments.

Rainbo2 - Something you said about 2 years ago really touched my heart. The thread was about death and you stated (something to this effect) "God will heal her here or will heal her in Heaven - regardless, she will be healed." It made such a profound impact on how I looked at sickness and has helped me deal with the deaths of loved ones in the past 2 years. I can celebrate the fact that they are healed. Thank you. I haven't been on the board much for the last year as I've started working full time - but please know that I do pray for you my dear sister in Christ.


:hug Thank you!

I'm blessed that something God lead me to say has helped you. Thank you so much for letting me know, that means more then I can say.

Thank you so much for praying for me.:nod

I am sorry for your loss though, time helps, but I know you must still miss them. I know I still miss my mom although it's been almost 20 years, but I take great joy in imagining her running though heaven:joy. It's something she couldn't do during the last years of her life. I still miss my friends also but I know where they are.:nod

[BHiles]

BHiles - thank you for posting this thread. My mother is a migraine sufferer and we have discussed this topic for years. She will be blessed by your comments.


Just though I would post links to some threads of what I was thinking about when my mother died and a struggle I had in the few months after dealing with the emotion of it all.

Mom's Homegoing (http://www.prophecyfellowship.org/showthread.php?t=305829)
Grieving with God - A Relationship Struggling (http://www.prophecyfellowship.org/showthread.php?t=310276&highlight=relationship)

It was such a help to me especially the grieving part that others had experienced similar feelings. They were just so foreign to me and it helped me understand what normal was.

[Blessed2B]

Also, please forgive me if I was overly harsh in my earlier response (prior the one above).


No, you were not out of place in what you said.
The bible says that out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.
You were only speaking what is in your heart and I understand perfectly where your heart is.
It is in the Lord and your understanding of Him. So there is no fault in your post.

At the same time, I am speaking what is in the abundance of my heart, and that is to take the Word for what it says, regardless of how we experience the circumstances in our lives.

I have lost loved ones to horrible disease. My grandmother died of cancer. My grandfather died of alcoholism. My father has had multiple health problems in his old age (major life threatening issues).



Can you tell me any reason a person would not be healed, if they have sufficient faith, believe, understand and have forgiveness? Is there anything you can point to that would justify why they are not healed? Just one thing, so I can understand.

And if my question is unscriptural, please help me understand where, because I am very strongly positioned on this, and the last thing I want is to be wrongfully holding and espousing on something that is contrary to scripture.

I cannot go beyond the reasons I've already given.
If I could pinpoint every specific issue, I would never be lacking in any area of my life because I would have all the answers.
As I said, there are things I have prayed about and continue to pray about that have not come about in my life. I'm doing everything I know to do according to His will, but have not seen the answer.
Please don't take this as sounding accusatory, because that is not the spirit in which I am speaking. I am saying this out of love.
Hosea 4:6 says "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

There is something lacking somewhere in my life that is holding me back from the arrival of my answer. As I continue seeking Him, I honestly believe the answer will come and I will know what specifically has held me back.

No, your questioning is not unscriptural! James 1:5 says:
"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

I understand fully that you are strongly positioned on this, but you said that you don't want to hold on to something that is contrary to scripture.
That is a learning spirit and one that is willing to know the heart of God.

Firstly, I would suggest prayer about the matter and diligently seeking His will.
After prayer, I would suggest the Word. What does the Word say?
I'm not asking how you have been traditionally taught, I'm asking what does it say? Does it line up with the way you believe it?

If so, you have no need to change the way you believe the matter.
His word says in Romans 3:4 "let God be true, but every man a liar"
It doesn't matter if it's me, your pastor, or anyone else. If it does not line up with the Word and will of God, then write it off.




This is key. Just because we ask for something from God, doesn't mean it's His will to give it to us.

Let me address this first with James 4:3
"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume [it] upon your lusts."

I agree with you 100% that man can ask for things outside of Gods will and get all upset when their prayer is not answered.
But how do we KNOW the Lords will?

His WORD is His will!

Man is given a choice.
This may be hard for some to swallow, but please bear with me:
God does not always get his way!

You can pick your jaw up off the floor now...
2 Peter 3:9 says the Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The problem is, not all men are willing to come to repentance.
I honestly believe that some people will go to Hell.
But God's Word (His will) is that NONE perish, and that ALL come to repentance.
So here we see just one example of God having a will, but it not being done.

I believe men wrote the bible as God spoke to them His heart.
John said in 3John 1:2 "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth."

I believe this is not only the will of John, but the will of God. That is why it is recorded in His Word.
It is His will that we be in health.

Let me share a personal story.
My eyesight was 20/400 in both eyes.
I prayed for YEARS for perfect eyesight. I was practically blind without my glasses, and couldn't function normally without them.
The Lord provided me with a good job, and I was able to afford Laser surgery and now have 20/20 vision. The doctor even told me not to expect too much from the surgery, but I walked away with perfect vision.
Did the Lord answer my prayer? Absolutely!
He didn't spit in the dirt and rub it in my eyes, but I don't care HOW the manifestation came about, the point is, I prayed and eventually received my answer. This to me is no less miraculous than simply waking up one morning with perfect eyesight.
Why? because when I began praying, this surgery wasn't available.
There was a procedure involving scalpels, and was less reliable, but the laser was not available. Even if it was, there was no way I could have afforded it with my then current job.
I had to be moved into a place where I was able to receive it.
It wasn't a lack of faith. It had nothing to do with sin. I simply wasn't in a position to receive the answer He had for me at that time.

There is one other story that is much more personal to me, and was a huge battle, but the Lord delivered me from this torment and disease in a miraculous way. Because of the nature of this disease and the way it affected me I'm not ready to share it at this time; maybe one day I will be able to, but going back to what Watchman said..."I am strongly positioned on this".
As am I.
I have reasons beyond what I can go into at this time.
The Lord worked a mighty miracle in my life and in tears of joy even now, I will never stop thanking Him for what He has done in my life.

There is a God in Heaven, and He has nothing but good in His will toward His beloved children.
I pray that we all come to a fuller understanding of Him so that we can enjoy that abundant life!

[BHiles]

Blessed2B

Someday if you life long enough and we are not raptured yet, you will get sick and you will die. I will not condemn your "lack of faith". I will say either welcome home or God took another saint home. We all die and most because we were not healed either from sickness or injury. It is not a lack of anything but the curse of death that remains on our mortal flesh until it is raised incorruptable.

Scripture is clear on this.

[Blessed2B]

BHiles, I will agree that DEATH is inevitable.
However, death by SICKNESS is not.

You state so matter of factly that I WILL get sick and die.
Start calling your children or grandchildren stupid every time you see them - see how they turn out.

Words can affect a person emotionally. Emotions can affect ones health.

When my grandmother was in the hospital with Melanoma, I didn't taunt her with remarks like "you're going to die".
I talked about LIFE and of LOVE and about hurrying up to get well so we can spend more time together!
Sure, the melenoma is what ended up robbing her of her life, but I didn't hurt her emotionally in the process.

Aunt Beck died when she was 116 years old. The last time I saw her she was 112 and was weeding around the house.
She died in her sleep and had NO health issues when she passed.

Scripture is clear that all die, I will not disagree.
But He promised me length of days and life abundant.

I'll take Him at His word before I take you at yours.

[barb43]

From personal experience with my husband's death by cancer, and with my brother's suicide, i can say that i have seen God heal people but not in the ways we were praying they would be healed.

My late-dh grew tremendously in his faith and his walk with the Lord over the last 2 years of his life - we adopted the son he'd always longed for; he went to war and relied wholly on the Lord to bring him through that; and when he came home ill, he stayed right there with God to the end. And many of us around him grew in our faith along with him. At the time of his death, he was healed emotionally and spiritually - he'd had a long haul with battles in those areas - but he did die, he was not healed physically so that he could go on living here among us.

And with my brother - the raging agnostic - when he found a relationship with the Lord, he could see the evil in the household where he was living. He could see no way of getting away from that, so he killed himself. I'm not saying it was the right decision, only God can judge that, but my brother was healed of the evil that had been in his life for over 4 decades, tho' he was not mentally or physically healed to continue living among us.

I don't agree with the idea that we aren't healed because we don't have enough faith, or knowledge or understanding, or we have some unconfessed sin in our lives, or we haven't been forgiving, etc., etc. Christians would live forever right here on this earth otherwise.

[ChristineMarie]

I just want to say this is a wonderful thread in all honesty and I am gleening much from it.

For the past 15 years my now ex husband has been slowly passing away from MS and MS related ailments. It has not been easy to watch my children having to watch this.

But his infirmity has healed me and brought me that much closer to my Savior. I too have my own trials with Fibro and Now Possible Lupus DX, these do not define who I am am but how I deal does define who I am.

My Heart and Mind have been Healed, He said the "Body" will have to wait for Glory.

CM

Again praying for all those here :pray

[carmen]

God does not always get his way!:faint
You are right; that will be hard to swallow for many--and thankfully so since it is quite wrong; scripture teaches exactly the opposite. God's will is always done in His perfect time and in His perfect way. It is not God that doesn't get His way--it is WE that do not get OUR way.

IMHO, this teaching is based on nothing but pride in ourselves and what WE are in control of and can do. This is nothing less than the very thing satan used to tempt Eve in the garden; the most ancient lie of all and the most destructive.

We have nothing, are nothing, can accomplish nothing unless God first does it in us. We cannot even come to Him unless He first draws and enables us. The teaching that it is not God's power that accomplishes anything but rather is our faith that does so is in direct opposition to scriptural teaching.

Proverbs 16:9
In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

Proverbs 19:21
Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.

If God is not perfectly in control of all things, then all things cannot work to the good of those that love Him. Events cannot be predicted to happen in the future as they are over and over again. We cannot be sure that He will triumph and we can't even count on the efficacy of the shed blood of Christ to save us from our sins. At most, we can "hope" that our "faith" is enough to accomplish these things. That is NOT the teaching of the bible. And I praise Him for that!

[ChristineMarie]

If God is not perfectly in control of all things, then all things cannot work to the good of those that love Him. Events cannot be predicted to happen in the future as they are over and over again. We cannot be sure that He will triumph and we can't even count on the efficacy of the shed blood of Christ to save us from our sins. At most, we can "hope" that our "faith" is enough to accomplish these things. That is NOT the teaching of the bible. And I praise Him for that!

Very well put :hug

CM

[barb43]

:clap Thank you, Carmen! That was wonderfully put and i am gonna hang onto the way you said it to say to others. . . .:nod

[Blessed2B]

You are right; that will be hard to swallow for many--and thankfully so since it is quite wrong

Then please explain to me what this verse means.
I do not want to believe anything contrary to the Word.

It says it is not Gods will that ANY should perish, but that ALL come to repentance.

If that is the Lords will, and it doesn't happen, please explain to me how He gets His will.

Thank you for your patience with me in dealing with this subject that seems to be very intimate and personable to many.

[Paidfor]

I believe that there are several reasons for the suffering for Christians in the world. One is the normal or natural source, which is the fallen state of creation. This suffering that Christians suffer is the same as the suffering of non-believers in the world. It works for believers and non-believers alike. For nonbelievers it is meant to point them toward faith in God so that they may have the hope of eternal life. Jesus was very clear when he taught that those who suffer in this life are no worse sinners than those who (for the time being) escape.

Luk 13:1 Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?
Luk 13:3 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 "Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

When we hear of these large natural disasters in which hundred or thousands of people die, we know that the relationship with God that all of those people have differs between the differing people. Yet they all suffer the same death. Those who already have the hope of eternal life are refined and purified by suffering in the world. We learn, by suffering, to focus our hope on our Savior.

Rom 5:3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
Rom 5:4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
Rom 5:5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

In this way, through the Holy Spirit that is given to us, that which is evil becomes good in us.

The second source of suffering for the Christian is divine discipline that God brings upon us for specific sins. I believe that this is what James is talking about in the fifth chapter. That is why in James 5:16 it says
Jam 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
The word “therefore” indicates that the sickness and suffering is directly related to sins. This is also supported

1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
1Co 5:5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Paul, using his apostolic authority, is bringing this man into a judgment for the sin of having an affair with his father’s wife. Also

1Co 11:27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
1Co 11:29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.
1Co 11:30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.
1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

I think this is a situation very similar to the one that James was talking about in chapter 5. The Corinthians were not examining themselves and so were participating in communion in an unworthy manner. For this, Paul teaches, they were facing the discipline of the Lord, because they were failing to discipline themselves.

Sickness and death can also be for the specific glory of God.

Joh 9:1 As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth.
Joh 9:2 And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?"
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

Speaking of Lazarus our Lord said

Joh 11:4 But when Jesus heard this, He said, "This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified by it."

Looking at it in one way, those who suffer are more blessed because the Lord will not test us beyond our capacity. Those whom God loves He chastises.

Jam 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
Jam 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.

Some of us will be blessed with long lives to do the work of the Lord here on Earth. Some of us will be blessed with early death to go and be with our Lord.

[Persuaded]

Blessed2B,

I think the verse that you are thinking of is 2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."

Two things come to mind:
1. God is holding back His judgement until the very last because He wishes all to come to Him. (Prophecy scholars: is it right before the Second coming? what is the timing on this verse?)
2. Man's free will is the thing keeping him from reaching repentance. It's not God not getting His way (sorry for the double negative).

God's will is that He will be glorified in all situations and all circumstances. :)

[Paul]

It says it is not Gods will that ANY should perish, but that ALL come to repentance.Who are the "all" that God wills to come to repentance? Keeping this verse in context we can back up a couple of steps to find out:

- 2 Peter 3:9 - "He is patient with you". Who is the "you"? Back up a little.

- 2 Peter 3:8 - They are "dear friends". Back up a little more.

- 2 Peter 3:1 - They are "Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you." So if we back up one more time to 1 Peter, and see who it is written to, we can identify the dear friends, whom God is patient with, and desires all of them to not perish but come to repentance. Back up one more time.

- 1 Peter 1:1 - They are identified as "God's elect". God's elect do not perish but come to repentance because it is His will and God's will and His will is always done. The only question is how long before He decides that His will be done.

[Paul]

Through the work of the cross, the believer can attain physical health,
as well as the salvation of his soul.
This is assuming that attaining perfect physical health occurs in this lifetime. Jesus told us flatly, "In this world you will have trouble," but He also said that He has "overcome the world." So our faith is one that is unmoved by material or physical troubles. Like Paul we can rejoice in our infirmities.

It isn't until Revelation 21:4 that God "will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." God will wipe away every tear, and will end every pain, but not in this world. In this world our bodies are cursed. They break and die.

Also, this view fails to explain why God can save us from sin completely, but can't heal our bodies completely. I see several times where you mention a lack of knowledge as a possible reason. Why doesn't a lack of knowledge keep us from being saved? If we are saved by Christ's work, independent of any work on our part, then we should be healed by Christ's work, independent of any work on our part.

Why do people sometimes not receive their healing?Sometimes it's because of the reasons you listed and sometimes because it simply isn't God's will, like in the case of Paul, which Bhiles pointed out in the original post.

[Paul]

If you read Job you see his three friends basically say to him, "Job, you're suffering these things because you have sinned." Their theology taught that God rewards the righteous and punishes the wicked in this life.

In Job 8 Bildad almost sounds like a WOF preacher when he says...

But if you will look to God and plead with the Almighty, if you are pure and upright, even now he will rouse himself on your behalf and restore you to your rightful place.

Your beginnings will seem humble, so prosperous will your future be.
But what did God say to these three? "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." (Job 42:7)

The problem lies within our own understanding.
If the solution lay in our understanding, how was Job restored when God refers to him as one who speaks "words without knowledge"? (Job 38:2) Job himself admits "I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know." (Job 42:3)

Yet God restored him. Why?

Job had it right all along when he said, "The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away;
Blessed be the name of the Lord." It had nothing to do with Job's understanding. It had to do with God's purpose for Job.

Those of you who are suffering should know that when the Lord takes away it's because He wants to tell the world a story through you, His vessel of honor (Rom 9:21). Through you He wants the world to know that through Christ "His peace passes all understanding" (Phil 4:7) because "His grace is sufficient" to hold you up and "His strength may be made perfect in your weakness." (2 Cor 12:7-9) When you meet your Lord you will meet Him completely healed because you "shall be like Him". He'll greet with by saying "Well done faithful servant" because you presented your bodies a living sacrifice which He used to glorify His name.

[BHiles]

If you read Job you see his three friends basically say to him, "Job, you're suffering these things because you have sinned." Their theology taught that God rewards the righteous and punishes the wicked in this life.

In Job 8 Bildad almost sounds like a WOF preacher when he says...


But what did God say to these three? "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." (Job 42:7)


If the solution lay in our understanding, how was Job restored when God refers to him as one who speaks "words without knowledge"? (Job 38:2) Job himself admits "I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know." (Job 42:3)

Yet God restored him. Why?

Job had it right all along when he said, "The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away;
Blessed be the name of the Lord." It had nothing to do with Job's understanding. It had to do with God's purpose for Job.

Those of you who are suffering should know that when the Lord takes away it's because He wants to tell the world a story through you, His vessel of honor (Rom 9:21). Through you He wants the world to know that through Christ "His peace passes all understanding" (Phil 4:7) because "His grace is sufficient" to hold you up and "His strength may be made perfect in your weakness." (2 Cor 12:7-9) When you meet your Lord you will meet Him completely healed because you "shall be like Him". He'll greet with by saying "Well done faithful servant" because you presented your bodies a living sacrifice which He used to glorify His name.


Thank You Paul. Excellent teaching and understanding.

[carmen]

Then please explain to me what this verse means.
I do not want to believe anything contrary to the Word.

It says it is not Gods will that ANY should perish, but that ALL come to repentance.

If that is the Lords will, and it doesn't happen, please explain to me how He gets His will.

Thank you for your patience with me in dealing with this subject that seems to be very intimate and personable to many.My apologies I wasn't able to get back to this sooner; however, I think subsequent answers have been far more eloquent and well done than anything I could have written anyway :nod