Who here rarely attends church?

[Praise him]

It has been two months for me. It has become more of a feel good experience than preaching the meat of the Bible.

[haeschen]

We have church at home
Church left us - we did not leave the church
If there would be a church of Philadelphia in this town, We'd be there!

[4everHis]

I work on Sunday's so it's difficult for me to attend church so I guess I fall into that category of not attending on Sunday's.

I think a healthy combination of preaching the word plus some great worship and praise music (feel good) if you will, is perfect.
I love to worship though song and praise.

[Praise him]

I work on Sunday's so it's difficult for me to attend church so I guess I fall into that category of not attending on Sunday's.

I think a healthy combination of preaching the word plus some great worship and praise music (feel good) if you will, is perfect.
I love to worship though song and praise.

I enjoy hearing and learning the meat of the Bible. I attended church for three years and they would stay away from certain subject so they would not offend people.

[MornDew247]

We go every other Sunday (blushing). We really should go every Sunday, because our pastor is a very good speaker (in every sense), and most of the people in our church are uplifting, sweet people, but I am out late on Saturday's (I visit my parents 150 miles away every week) and find it hard to get myself and both kids marshalled through breakfast, dressing and herding them into the car in time for 9am service. So in this way I geuss you could say I'm lazy. I try daily reading though, and have a Thursday morning get-together with some christian women I met through the church, so I try and make up for it :) For years I did not attend, and do not think my faith was comprimised in any way by it. The church we found though is so good and true and interesting, I can't imagine not going at least every other week, and feel bad when I miss out!

[Moony2ns]

I rarely go to church because I'm still recovering from a nasty MS flare, and sitting in those pews (while comfy any other time) is killer on my legs. I attempted it last month, but had to leave before the sermon because I felt really faint.

My church is wonderful, and while not perfect, it truly emulates the body of Christ as it should. The outpouring of love and support from people I know and don't has been humbling and inspiring. There is accountability without condemnation, a tricky line to toe, and the sermons are solid and riveting. They've been sending me the CD's of the sermons I've missed so I can still keep up with the teachings, which are done directly from the Scriptures, line by line, and in great detail. I don't always agree with everything, but the important thing is that I'm motivated to dig deeper in His Word.

I know I am truly blessed, and I don't know what I would do without a church home I could count on. :sad Even in isolation, I know I am actively being prayed and cared for. If I were you, I wouldn't give up in your search. A solid church home is invaluable. :hug

[LooC]

I've wanted to leave my current church since 1994. My husband says, "No." To his credit, he loves teaching his SS class. He's a deacon, I edit our church newsletter.

The church has tolerated far too much, IMHO. I'm actually afraid that God's judgment could fall on our church - or already has :headstratch. Just like the 7 churches in Rev were judged 'corporately'. They were judged on the false doctrines that were allowed in.

A preacher came once and instructed the entire church to enter a mediatative state by saying, "Ommmm", the name of a false deity. In essence, inviting him into our sanctuary. It's a Southern Baptist Church here in Little Rock.

Our music leader is living with a man she isn't married to. (no one wants to rock the boat)

My SS teacher (if I went) says she wants to be called a "Christ follower", not a born again believer. Heading very Emergent.

Preacher likes Doug Pagit....on and on.

I've already had a devotional this a.m., read a good old fashioned sermon on eternity, listening to some good Southern Gospel right now. Actually they're singing about the Return right now! Doesn't get any better than that.

I'd leave in a heartbeat if my husband said so. No looking back at all. No hard feelings either. I'd shake the dust off my feet...

"....whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the DUST under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent."

[alabama35565]

i have to admit, i haven't been to a regular church in several years.
we are a small rural area, and i will tell you that we have so many small " family run" churchs that it is not funny......
you know the ones.......that only family members have any say ...
we have a family friend who has a church just a few miles outside of town, now i think the world of this man.......
he was the only minister to show up at the hospital the night my husband died in 1996.....but over the years he has more and more began to try and pattern himself after T.D. Jakes......even down to the dressing the part....the last time i was at his church......and yes that is what he says....that it is his church !!!!!......he laid his hand on top of my head and prayed for the Lord , not to bless me but to give me a million dollars, because all what i had been through in my life.........
and i haven't heard a real good meaty sermon from a preacher around here in a long time. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/bevelheadgrl/thud.gifhttp://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v185/MemoryLane/bolt.gif

[Caleb]

Well, we didn't attend church this morning. We had a really bad thunderstorm early this morning & when we get over to church, we find out the services were cancelled due to a power outage.

[Praise him]

i have to admit, i haven't been to a regular church in several years.
we are a small rural area, and i will tell you that we have so many small " family run" churchs that it is not funny......
you know the ones.......that only family members have any say ...
we have a family friend who has a church just a few miles outside of town, now i think the world of this man.......
he was the only minister to show up at the hospital the night my husband died in 1996.....but over the years he has more and more began to try and pattern himself after T.D. Jakes......even down to the dressing the part....the last time i was at his church......and yes that is what he says....that it is his church !!!!!......he laid his hand on top of my head and prayed for the Lord , not to bless me but to give me a million dollars, because all what i had been through in my life.........
and i haven't heard a real good meaty sermon from a preacher around here in a long time. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/bevelheadgrl/thud.gifhttp://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v185/MemoryLane/bolt.gif

A lot of churches in my area are family run too. Many of them will not preach prophecy at all. Some have told me they think it should not be discussed.

[moimeme]

I've wanted to leave my current church since 1994. My husband says, "No." To his credit, he loves teaching his SS class. He's a deacon, I edit our church newsletter.

The church has tolerated far too much, IMHO. I'm actually afraid that God's judgment could fall on our church - or already has :headstratch. Just like the 7 churches in Rev were judged 'corporately'. They were judged on the false doctrines that were allowed in.

A preacher came once and instructed the entire church to enter a mediatative state by saying, "Ommmm", the name of a false deity. In essence, inviting him into our sanctuary. It's a Southern Baptist Church here in Little Rock.

Our music leader is living with a man she isn't married to. (no one wants to rock the boat)

My SS teacher (if I went) says she wants to be called a "Christ follower", not a born again believer. Heading very Emergent.

Preacher likes Doug Pagit....on and on.

12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent." [/I]

Gaaacckkk!!!!! the ooommmm part is especially gross!!!!!

Sounds like the church that my dh left!!!

[Singlesis]

I left church too, for many of the same reasons: too liberal, too money-hungry, too crowd-pleasing/entertaining... not enough biblical meat being taught, etc.

But now we've started a small casual church that airs live over the internet: Hope Chapel. So any of you who aren't in church anywhere on Sunday or Wednesday, you can "have church" with us! :bashful

[Southern Lady]

I was thinking my husband and I were the only ones. The church we left, well the sermons were okay, but we just felt like we didn't fit in anymore. If you had money and or singing talent that is what mattered. Otherwise you were ignored, even when facing death in the family.

[Mitsy]

Got extremely sick (I suffer from ongoing chronic illness so this made me bedridden) at the beginning of the year. Used to attend Church fairly regularly before that. So far I've managed to go about 4 times. Don't miss it much because I rarely get much from the sermon or from the fellowship but I feel I should be part of a body of Christians somewhere. My hubby goes without me and he is really deaf but he hears this and that and what he has been able to get has encouraged him. My hubby has made some friends there that have been a good source of male fellowship for him. So when I get better as a wife who wants to encourage my hubby in his walk with the Lord I will continue to go.

[LooC]

Got extremely sick (I suffer from ongoing chronic illness so this made me bedridden) at the beginning of the year. Used to attend Church fairly regularly before that. So far I've managed to go about 4 times. Don't miss it much because I rarely get much from the sermon or from the fellowship but I feel I should be part of a body of Christians somewhere. My hubby goes without me and he is really deaf but he hears this and that and what he has been able to get has encouraged him. My hubby has made some friends there that have been a good source of male fellowship for him. So when I get better as a wife who wants to encourage my hubby in his walk with the Lord I will continue to go.
:hug

I once heard a preacher say, "There was a deaf man who went to church every Sunday - even though they didn't have any interpreters in that church. Someone asked him why he kept going, and he said, 'I want people to know Whose side I'm on.'"

You've touched my heart this morning! God bless you two!

[coffeehubby]

I visit my wife on Sundays generally. I don't feel like they are preaching to men but to a touchy feely women's encounter group type audiance at most local churches. Don't need to waste my time with that crap when I could be out on the trails biking. But I do spend time with christian friends.

[RobinB]

We had changed churches when ours became too liberal (supporting same sex marriage, etc.) and found a pastor we really liked. Now he has left the local church (took a position in a neighboring county) and we haven't been attending.

[RobinB]

I
But now we've started a small casual church that airs live over the internet: Hope Chapel. So any of you who aren't in church anywhere on Sunday or Wednesday, you can "have church" with us! :bashful



I might take you up on that!:wave

[kgreen20]

We had changed churches when ours became too liberal (supporting same sex marriage, etc.) and found a pastor we really liked. Now he has left the local church (took a position in a neighboring county) and we haven't been attending.



Same here. I really liked the pastor of the church I joined last year, after we moved, but he has recently moved to another church in another part of the state. We have an interim pastor, but not a permanent one.

[BigglesNC]

I haven't darkened the doors of a church since Easter Sunday 2002.

Amazingly my depression is gone, and I am actually happy and pleased with life now-a-days.

[BHiles]

I haven't darkened the doors of a church since Easter Sunday 2002.

Amazingly my depression is gone, and I am actually happy and pleased with life now-a-days.


So should we celebrate the disobedience to the word of God.

I mean really. Threads like these generally end up just complaining about how awful the churches are and are not edifying in the least. It is God's institution and we are told to go to church even more as we see the day approaching.

Now I know I will probably offend you but I am sorry for the offense but not to the correction - to blatanly speak directly against the Word of God regardless of your personal experiences is just plain wrong and you know better.

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

And so much the more.

And so much the more.

[kd4dqe9]

i used to go to church every day and most nights and wednesdays too.
the sermons were directed at me and convicted me of my sin, even after i was saved. (he was that good a pastor)

THEN i had an accident and had trouble sitting upright. i was having to get up during the sermon to stretch my legs and get the spasms out.
being a ham, i could also program the wireless mic frequency into my radio, and not miss the sermon. i also carried a hand held radio with an earphone to listen w/o disturbing others.

it got so the pastor would ask me to sit in the back so i wouldnt be a distraction when i got up. thing is tho, my #2 son was deaf and had to sit in the front row to hear him.

i eventually got to where i didnt go in, but just sat in the van , listening to the sermon on the ham radio.

when the pastor refused to allow me to set up a monitor and speaker in another room with a recliner, eventually i figured he just didnt care if i was there, so we all left.

and there were the little "circles" that i was not part of where folks would quit whispering when i walked by. i DO have a somewhat thick skin, but IMHO i wasnt the one with an issue, THEY were.

y'know, them "little circles" that insinuates gossip CAN have a not so desirable effect regarding new members that didnt seem to
"conform" or sensitive current members. !

TBH, i really miss going to church, so im back here, with my old freinds that have been there for me and given good advice many times !

what does GOD say ? "where two or three are gathered in my name, i am also with them".

PRAISE JESUS, MAY YOU COME SOON MY LORD AND SAVIOR !

[BigglesNC]

:X

[coffeehubby]

I don't forsake the gathering of my brothers and sisters in Christ. I get together with christians every week. I DO NOT and will not go into some building that has endless touchy feely encounter groups....which has nothing to do with the original church.

[Praise him]

So should we celebrate the disobedience to the word of God.

I mean really. Threads like these generally end up just complaining about how awful the churches are and are not edifying in the least. It is God's institution and we are told to go to church even more as we see the day approaching.

Now I know I will probably offend you but I am sorry for the offense but not to the correction - to blatanly speak directly against the Word of God regardless of your personal experiences is just plain wrong and you know better.

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

And so much the more.

And so much the more.

You have a elitest attitude.

[cjones]

I pray for all of you who haven't found a good church home... keep looking!

One other thing that is very important about belonging to a local church is being under the spiritual authority of pastor. I don't know for sure, but isn't one of the reasons for Paul's letters to Timothy to help him in the running of the church at Ephesus? If I'm right there, then that's a good example of how it's important for us to be in a church where we have leadership/guidance/etc. since Paul was concerned enough for Timothy to write to him on it.

If we just get spiritually fed on our own, then we run the risk of being under non-Biblical teaching. There's got to be accountability for all of us, right?

-chris

[Flower]

I think a big problem for me is passivity, which I'm extremely guilty of. I think as Christians sometimes it is easier when in a bad church situation to go shopping around or quit instead of taking the initiative in trying to change the church situation from the inside out. Praying, talking, supporting, nailing a list to a wall if need be. Not to cause division but to support the church if we think it has become lukewarm. I'm not saying everyone who has left church has not done these things, but I know I have given up too easily on my fellow Christians and leaders when cliques took over or the services became more about administrative issues than teaching the meat of the Bible. And I do think about what would have been possible if I had been less passive about disagreeing with unsound doctrine while supporting the good aspects of the church community.

I do know that some church situations can be toxic and it is best to leave them. This just hit a nerve with me because I know I have struggled with taking the easy road (emotionaly easier, pridefully easier, happiness-wise easier) when it comes to judging a church and I still struggle with it today.

[Rainbo2]

You have a elitest attitude.


How so?

I think BHiles spoke the truth.

I have in the past been guilty of not attending church, sometimes because of health reasons and sometimes because the church I was attending was not preaching the true word of God. To tell the truth I got lazy for awhile and quit looking for a church that did preach Gods Word. I was wrong then, and BHiles is right now.

What I don't get is how is what BHiles wrote elitist?

[moimeme]

I haven't darkened the doors of a church since Easter Sunday 2002.

Amazingly my depression is gone, and I am actually happy and pleased with life now-a-days.


You might like a small house fellowship better (based on what you have told about yourself in the past).

One of the reasons i like our church so much is because it is small (20 people) and like Cheers, everybody knows your name!

[Praise him]

How so?

I think BHiles spoke the truth.

I have in the past been guilty of not attending church, sometimes because of health reasons and sometimes because the church I was attending was not preaching the true word of God. To tell the truth I got lazy for awhile and quit looking for a church that did preach Gods Word. I was wrong then, and BHiles is right now.

What I don't get is how is what BHiles wrote elitist?


Because not everybody is fortunate enough to find a good church and a lot of people have had bad experiences. I know what the scripture says but in real life it is not easy. Also, many Christians are flat out scared to even discuss their faith these days. I know Christians who will simply not even discuss Christianity for some reason or another. Yes, we are to follow scripture but sometimes circumstances can cause problems. I'll share something with you. I was attending a church that was owned by the pastor. My father helped this man start this church 25 years ago but my father did not like the way this man did things and left after a while. I ran into some problems and went to this man for help. He downright demanded money from me and was doing anything to get it a month into attending his church. He knew I had a troubled relationship with my mother at that time. She ended up in the hospital due to a illness. He claimed to have went and seen her and that all she did was dog me. He said that he was my friend and could not take hearing it. I later found out none of it was true that none of this had happened.

[Medic911]

I go every other week, due to my job which requires me to work every other weekend.

I definitely agree with those who've pointed out that we are in fact instructed to attend regularly.... but I do not feel that we are specifically told to go weekly. Unless I'm mistaken, the Bible simply says to go often. There is (to my knowledge, I'm willing to listen to rebuttals) no specific prescribed frequency with which we are told to go, and "often" can mean different things to different people. Be careful not to allow your own beliefs or traditions to put words in God's mouth.

That said, I think that weekly attendance (assuming a good, healthy body of believers) is very beneficial and edifying! I'm most definitely in favor of weekly attendance. Heck, go daily if possible! Certainly many who go two or three times a week are very blessed by it.

But just don't tell me I'm failing as a Christian if I don't go every week (or more). Not unless you can back that up with Scripture! (If I seem as if I'm on a soapbox, it's because I once had a young pastor tell me that I'm sinning and that I'm in direct defiance of God because I didn't go three times per week!) :doh

As a final thought, I also believe that the quality of church is even more important than the frequency with which one attends. (By "quality" I mean the truth and boldness by which the Scriptures are taught and practiced, the attitude of the members, et cetera) A person would undoubtedly benefit far more from attending a spirit-filled church once a month, than they would from visiting a dead church three times per week. If the only purpose that the church fills is to serve as a social club (for example), then they are missing out on a vital purpose of the church. Worse yet, if the church teaches a false doctrine, then they are indeed better off staying home altogether!

Some may try to twist what I'm saying, so I want to be very clear: I do feel that weekly attendance is usually the best way to go, for those whom it's possible. It allows you to stay "up" on the goings-on within the lives of fellow members and church activities. It allows the pastor to keep a certain continuity in his sermons. It allows you to feel as if you're an active part of the body. I simply don't feel that it's legalistically mandated anywhere in the Bible!

If I'm wrong, I'm willing to reconsider.

[coffeehubby]

There is a church that actually preaches the Word outside of town and I am comfortable with the people and pastor . Gas cost is the biggest hurdle for going, I can't both see my wife and go there. I can go on occassion if I make arrangements with someone. Not all the time.

The local churches preach a very social "gospel", or the other waterdowned sissified stuff. I don't see BHiles as being elitist, he is right that we should be very careful in airing our complaints because many people read this. I don't want to justify in someone else their not going to church if they have a godly one.

[kgreen20]

If only every Christian could be blessed to have access to a godly church, this wouldn't even be an issue. Sad to say, the church, as a whole, is becoming so apostate that godly churches are getting fewer and fewer. And it can actually cause more harm, spiritually, to attend an apostate church than it does to worship God at home.

[BigglesNC]

You might like a small house fellowship better (based on what you have told about yourself in the past).

One of the reasons i like our church so much is because it is small (20 people) and like Cheers, everybody knows your name!

:hiya Bingo!

More or less, that is what I do. I am happy with this.

I think some people are quick to judge, but whatever. I don't have to answer to people, I only have to answer to God.

[Kung Pao Smurf]

True, you don't have to answer to people; but we're expected to hold our brethren accountable, so if you don't like it, well..... :noidea While I might disagree with the way that BHiles went about saying what he said, in essence I do agree with him.

You also could have just said that you essentially are doing the house fellowship thing. That IS 'church' to me. That's what the disciples did. :):

[BigglesNC]

True, you don't have to answer to people; but we're expected to hold our brethren accountable, so if you don't like it, well..... :noidea While I might disagree with the way that BHiles went about saying what he said, in essence I do agree with him.

You also could have just said that you essentially are doing the house fellowship thing. That IS 'church' to me. That's what the disciples did. :):

20/20 Hindsight.

[Praise him]

True, you don't have to answer to people; but we're expected to hold our brethren accountable, so if you don't like it, well..... :noidea While I might disagree with the way that BHiles went about saying what he said, in essence I do agree with him.

You also could have just said that you essentially are doing the house fellowship thing. That IS 'church' to me. That's what the disciples did. :):

I will not allow another man to hold me accountable for my Christian walk. I know right from wrong. Most people do. If another man would judge me then I would him in return. No man is perfect. Some people like to think they are. They look comical. Nobody knows what is in another man's heart. Only God truly knows. I'm not saying this out of anger or hatred. If I am in error the Lord will show me.

[Rainbo2]

Because not everybody is fortunate enough to find a good church and a lot of people have had bad experiences. I know what the scripture says but in real life it is not easy. Also, many Christians are flat out scared to even discuss their faith these days. I know Christians who will simply not even discuss Christianity for some reason or another. Yes, we are to follow scripture but sometimes circumstances can cause problems. I'll share something with you. I was attending a church that was owned by the pastor. My father helped this man start this church 25 years ago but my father did not like the way this man did things and left after a while. I ran into some problems and went to this man for help. He downright demanded money from me and was doing anything to get it a month into attending his church. He knew I had a troubled relationship with my mother at that time. She ended up in the hospital due to a illness. He claimed to have went and seen her and that all she did was dog me. He said that he was my friend and could not take hearing it. I later found out none of it was true that none of this had happened.


:hug Sorry that happened to you. The church that I attended before taking that break and not looking for a church for awhile, was similar. It was all about the money, in addition to tithing you were expected to give for this and that, about $50 or more each time they asked, and the looked at you like you were a bad person if you didn't give. Since I didn't give they didn't even check to see how I was doing when I stopped attending. That's horrid about how that pastor tried to drive a wedge between you and your mom, he will be held accountable for his actions though, even if it isn't here on earth.

Please don't give us looking for a group of good bible believing Christians because of it though. Like Moimeme said even if it's only a few of y'all it's still church. Even if all y'all do is read from the bible and discuss it it is church.

Oh we are to be accountable to one and other, the bible tells us so:nod 1 Corinthians 5:12

[BHiles]

I have no problem that people are trying to find the right church for them. I have no problem that people will miss meetings. I have no problem when people are dealing with issues for whatever there is in their walk with Christ. I will not judge them. I will state what scripture says when scriptrue is directly challenged and let scripture judge.

What I was clearly speaking against is the blatant speaking out against a clear biblical mandate. We are not to speak out especially boasting of "not darkening the door since 2002" when there is a clear biblical mandate to not forsake the gathering together. (Now I understand because of subsequent posts that, that was hyberbole but anybody reading that would say this guy doesn't believe in going to church because churches make one unhappy and depressed. I don't know if its for the shock value or to bait so when someone corrects to just give the old judging accusation to stir things up) :noidea

We can try to subsitute the internet for church but that is not biblical. We can give a lot of excuses but the command still say to "not forsake". If one states that they have "not darkened the door since 2002" is that not forsaking? Well if you are struggling with this area of your life that is between you and God but if your then come on a Christian board and publicly and boldly proclaim it, You betcha I have a problem with it. This board is about the coming of Christ. Scripture says that as that time gets closer we are to be drawing together with the church even more. So a christian board with beleivers watching every moment for Christ's return should be all about church. The local bodies should be, being encouraged by the membership here.

There have been times that I did not go to church. There have been times when I participated in some sin. There have been times when I have done things I am not proud of. But at no time would I post a statement that may cause others to stumble because they followed doing something that I was doing against God's command.

We must state the Word of God clearly and succinctly. I don't expect anybody to answer to me but if someone is stating something against the word of God then I will say so. If God says to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together and gave so many examples of the institution of the church as being His body we ought ot be making every effort in our ability to be a part of that body. We ought to search out every place we can until we find a place. We ought to pray and even fast that God show us where He wants us. It is not acceptable to just give up. He never gives us a command without the ability to perform that command.

The members of the body (local church) are to hold us accountable. No man is an island. The members of the body are there for your perfecting. No matter how perfect you feel you are. No matter how much independence you think you should be allowed in your unaccountability. Paul said it best. I Cor 12"20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Many will say that this verse is about the body stating to the member i have no need of thee to preach against cliques and prejiduces but it is just as sinful for a believer to say to the body of believers I have no need of thee.

Paul wrote to the church at Ephesus speaking directly of the responsibilites of the local body of beleivers and their purpose as a church until Christ returned.


Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

[Praise him]

I have no problem that people are trying to find the right church for them. I have no problem that people will miss meetings. I have no problem when people are dealing with issues for whatever there is in their walk with Christ. I will not judge them. I will state what scripture says when scriptrue is directly challenged and let scripture judge.

What I was clearly speaking against is the blatant speaking out against a clear biblical mandate. We are not to speak out especially boasting of "not darkening the door since 2002" when there is a clear biblical mandate to not forsake the gathering together. (Now I understand because of subsequent posts that, that was hyberbole but anybody reading that would say this guy doesn't believe in going to church because churches make one unhappy and depressed. I don't know if its for the shock value or to bait so when someone corrects to just give the old judging accusation to stir things up) :noidea

We can try to subsitute the internet for church but that is not biblical. We can give a lot of excuses but the command still say to "not forsake".

There have been times that I did not go to church. There have been times when I participated in some sin. There have been times when I have done things I am not proud of. But at no time would I post a statement that may cause others to stumble because they followed doing something that I was doing against God's command.

We must state the Word of God clearly and succinctly. I don't expect anybody to answer to me but if someone is stating something against the word of God then I will say so. If God says to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together and gave so many examples of the institution of the church as being His body we ought ot be making every effort in our ability to be a part of that body. We ought to search out every place we can until we find a place. We ought to pray and even fast that God show us where He wants us. It is not acceptable to just give up. He never gives us a command without the ability to perform that command.

The members of the body (local church) are to hold us accountable. No man is an island. The members of the body are there for your perfecting. No matter how perfect you feel you are. No matter how much independence you think you should be allowed in your unaccountability. Paul said it best. I Cor 12"20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Many will say that this verse is about the body stating to the member i have no need of thee to preach against cliques and prejiduces but it is just as sinful for a believer to say to the body of believers I have no need of thee.

Paul wrote to the church at Ephesus speaking directly of the responsibilites of the local body of beleivers and their purpose as a church until Christ returned.


Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

I simply asked a question. Where did I imply others should follow my lead? If people are that weak minded then there are bigger issues. Once again you are judging. You should also follow the Bible more closely.

[BHiles]

I simply asked a question. Where did I imply others should follow my lead? If people are that weak minded then there are bigger issues. Once again you are judging. You should also follow the Bible more closely.

Thats two direct personal attacks for speaking out for the word of God and nary a word. I guess the mods feel I am a big boy and can handle it. :D:

[Praise him]

You were not attacked for speaking out for the word of God. You were criticized because you act like you are better. I'm adding you to my ignore list so I do not get in trouble.

[BHiles]

You were not attacked for speaking out for the word of God. You were criticized because you act like you are better.
That three, care for four?

My goodness if we can't speak the word of God anymore without being accused of judging or the Better Christian game. Ridiculous.

I will not submit to the this new christianeze gag order.

[Praise him]

I apologize to the mods. I will no longer interact with Hiles.

[Paidfor]

Whether we like it or not, if we call ourselves Christians, people will watch what we do. We are clearly taught that we are to sacrifice our own Christian liberty, so that those who are weaker in faith will not fall into sin because of our example.

1Co 8:11 For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
1Co 8:12 And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

[Praise him]

I doubt I've had much influence or anybody else for that matter. People can live in their make believe world and act like the church is perfect and that it is all about worshipping Christ but it is not. It is full of cliches and rarely do they touch on the meat of the Bible these days. That has been my experience the last three years. I even corrected a Sunday school teacher for preaching a false doctrine last summer and he repented during the church service for it. The following week the people in the Sunday school class would not speak to me because they were "friends" of the teacher and it was a family owned church. The funny thing is these teachers ask you to correct them when they are wrong and I did. I even supported my case with scripture. Then they can't handle when someone does speak out. I dressed up for the Sunday services but not Wednesday and the pastor confronted me about it and said I should? Why? I did not dress offensively by any means. The fact is there are those who are quick to judge based on appearance but because I did not wear my suit and tie on Wednesday I'm out of place? I did not hold a position of leadership in that church. Me and my wife were active there and did a lot for that church they still try to contact us from time to time but we were there to worship Jesus Christ and not present ourselves as being better. The fact is I was told by the pastor himself he has lost around forty to seventy members the past three years. There was a problem there to lose that many members and it can not be ignored.

[Medic911]

The mods are indeed paying attention.

Play nice.

[Praise him]

The mods are indeed paying attention.

Play nice.

I apologize again. I was being overly sensitive. I apologize to Hiles also.

[GodsElf]

My husband and I currently do not attend church, but not for a lack of wanting to. The church that we spent our first 7 years in as Christians became so liberal and worldly that the Christmas play was kicked off with the Grinch running and screaming down the aisle followed by a cowboy with a gun, followed by a ninja. We actually had people running out with their screaming children (who were scared senseless). The pastor's message on his answering machine was to leave a message because he and his wife were probably homeschooling. When I went to my deacon with a serious crisis in faith issue I was blatantly told that the pastor did not have time for this "because he has five children you know." Our youth minister stood and gave his resignation and while doing so told how he drank, had sex and then went to church on Sunday before he became saved so the kids should know they could get it together. I was appalled.

We have visited three churches since. Two were mega non-denominational churches. We found in both that the pastor wants no interaction with you, you are designated to cell groups from day one. We actually saw one pastor this week at a restaurant and he walked right by without speaking.

The other mega church currently wants to build a new church, a five million dollar church, yet many complain that the pastor will not even visit those in the church that are sick or dying.

The last church we visited the pastor actually stood in the pulpit and called the other pastors in the area a vile name and said if you didn't like it, "don't let the door hit ya, where the good ........." My husband will tell you that I actually ran out of the doors when church was dismissed.

We are searching for a church, we're searching for that small church that offers Sunday School, friendships, instruction, leadership, and spiritual growth. So far we haven't found it.

It is a very painful issue and not one that is easily fixed. We have resorted to watching services on television. So I do sympathize with those of you that do not have a home church, as I know how much I miss the church I grew up in. If it were not for it being a two hour drive, I would go back there on Sundays.

[carmen]

I have kept my peace in this thread til now, but feel I must share what is on my heart. I pray I do so kindly and lovingly, and do not want to be accusatory or sound as if I am talking to any person here in particular--let me clear up front that I am not. This is just what's been on my heart lately about this topic as I've noticed more and more Christians pounding the church and other Christians for various reasons. It's in books and the media and individual bodies...it's everywhere and seems to be increasing. The thing that keeps coming to my mind is that it is apparently not enough for the world to attack Christians; we are doing it to one another as well :(:. That saddens me so very much.

There are a lot of issues in local bodies these days, no doubt about it. Relationships are hard and relationships in church are no exception. But with all her faults and flaws, with all the ugliness that comes with our fallen human nature and that each of us brings with us to church even after redemption, Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her. If we are to emulate His attitude (and we certainly are directed to do so) then we need to consider how we talk, think, treat and care for the local bodies that make up much of that same church.

Certainly there are problems in many if not most local bodies (if there's one out there that's perfect, don't join--you might mess it up, as the saying goes :laugh). There were a lot of problems in the NT church as well, many quite severe; from Acts onward you can read all about them. But you can also read the attitude of the apostles and it was still one of love. That attitude seems to be going by the wayside as we (rightfully) attempt to correct some of the issues that our churches DO need to correct.

I think we need to always make sure we have the same attitude the apostles had as they dealt with problems in the early church. Otherwise we become part of the problem and fail to contribute at all to a solution. A church needs every part of the body--the eye, the ear, the foot, the mouth, the heart, liver and kidneys--to function properly. When Paul was talking about that, I don't think he was just talking about the church catholic but the local bodies, the very same thing we are talking about now. That's who he was writing to, after all. Part of proper functioning is having those knowledgeable, willing, diplomatic and above all loving enough to assist in fixing problems where they find them. If all the people that can and want to do that simply abandon the body because dealing with the problems is too difficult, how will the body be made well? :confused

Our relationship with our family in Christ is just that--a relationship. And that means we have to commit time, energy, tears and sweat to it just like any relationship. If you don't do that, but just walk in and tell people how wrong they are, why should they listen to you? Of course they aren't going to listen. People don't care until they know YOU care, and that is just as true of believers as it is of non-believers.

If God leads you to a church, He put you there for a reason. And if you aren't in a local body, chances are there's a body that could use your particular gifts of the Spirit and that's hurting without them.

I'm not saying you have to attend a local body (nor would I dare :fear) but I would say that I believe God would have each of us prayerfully consider it and do His will accordingly.

Maybe we need to spend at least twice as much time encouraging and building one another up in love as we do finding problems and attempting to fix them. Then when we DO need to make a correction according to the biblical model, we will be heard in terms of our relationship with each other. That makes others more willing to hear what we have to say and actually listen instead of feeling they have to defend themselves.

That's all I wanted to say and I apologize if I sounded preachy or scolding. I didn't intend to at all and I need to remember all this just as much as anyone.

[River Boy]

Carmen, very well stated. :wave I agree.
Brent, notice how well Carmen has articulated her thoughts.

[Praise him]

Carmen I hope I did not give the impression that I just visited a church and corrected them. I had visited some of their homes and had dinner with them. I had been to their homes for Bible studies. I'm not that arrogant. I'm very frustrated with my church experiences. I saw a lot of things I did not like and that were unChrist like. I'm not perfect and realize I'm flawed but what I am seeing into today's churches truly troubles me.

[Paidfor]

Certainly there are problems in many if not most local bodies (if there's one out there that's perfect, don't join--you might mess it up, as the saying goes :laugh). There were a lot of problems in the NT church as well, many quite severe; from Acts onward you can read all about them. But you can also read the attitude of the apostles and it was still one of love. That attitude seems to be going by the wayside as we (rightfully) attempt to correct some of the issues that our churches DO need to correct.


:nod Good post.

I've thought about this also and have thought that we expect to much from church. Not that there aren't some real horror stories out there and some truly abusive churches, but I also think we quit to quickly sometimes. (Praise Him, I am not talking about you or anyone else for that matter. It does sound like you tried. But, I urge your to not give up. There are good churches out there.)

I feel kind of hypocritical posting this because I have always been blessed with good churches.

[BHiles]

Carmen, very well stated. :wave I agree.
Brent, notice how well Carmen has articulated her thoughts.

Yes I did. :):

I also noticed how she opened a thread to talk about the purpose of the church which was helpful in teaching how churches are to work

I have incredible stories that could go on for hours and hours about incredulous wrongs done to me in a wide variety of churches. I have been in churches for 44 years. 44 years of church and christian schools can heap a whole lot of negatives in this fallen world. But I rather not focus on those becuase it causes me to go to a negative place in my spirit. I rather forgive those who wronged me and work towards helping the right things. A Church is to be a spiritual hospital and there are a lot of sick people in those hospitals. It is best to look to solutions than how ill the patients are. You would not go into a hospital and get mad at a patient for not treating you right. You would try to do what you could to help them. We of all believers need to be uplifting in how we speak about the church. As Carmen put it much more eliquentlly than I Christ died for her. I think He is quite saddened when He sees believers speaking ill of her for sins He already paid for.


BTW PraiseHim Already forgotten :hug

[walkbyfaith]

:nod Good post.

I've thought about this also and have thought that we expect to much from church. Not that there aren't some real horror stories out there and some truly abusive churches, but I also think we quit to quickly sometimes. (Praise Him, I am not talking about you or anyone else for that matter. It does sound like you tried. But, I urge your to not give up. There are good churches out there.)



Yes, there absolutely ARE good churches out there. :nod Not perfect ones, good ones.

I have been hurt in church as much as many of you, deeply hurt by other christians. I've taken time off from attending, but as I study Scripture, I have always been called back to a local body. He intends us to 'rub up' against one another, and He has used that 'rubbing against' to grow me. He has blessed me with opportunity after opportunity to deal with difficulties with others and used that to make me a more compassionate and loving child, most of the time the hard way. :sigh

Submission to someone besides my husband has been hard for me, and an excuse I've used to not be in the body at times. :sad I was abused horribly as a child, and submission to anyone else's authority has been difficult for me to learn. But submitting to one another is Biblical. And after years of saying that we would probably never join another church, we are, specifically because we believe God calls us to be accountable to one another and to submit to one another.

We are blessed with a Biblical church, with one that loves and reaches out to the lost. Once again, it's not perfect. And we visited many, many churches that discouraged us before we were led to this one. But, if we hadn't taken that journey that led us through all kinds of "strange" churches, we wouldn't have found the one we are in. Our Father wants us to fellowship, to exhort, to hold accountable. It's impossible to do if we aren't "rubbing up" against one another, be it in a church building or a home church.

I encourage you guys to look again. Your home church is out there, just waiting for you.

[GodsElf]

Yes, there absolutely ARE good churches out there. :nod Not perfect ones, good ones.

I have been hurt in church as much as many of you, deeply hurt by other christians. I've taken time off from attending, but as I study Scripture, I have always been called back to a local body. He intends us to 'rub up' against one another, and He has used that 'rubbing against' to grow me. He has blessed me with opportunity after opportunity to deal with difficulties with others and used that to make me a more compassionate and loving child, most of the time the hard way. :sigh

Submission to someone besides my husband has been hard for me, and an excuse I've used to not be in the body at times. :sad I was abused horribly as a child, and submission to anyone else's authority has been difficult for me to learn. But submitting to one another is Biblical. And after years of saying that we would probably never join another church, we are, specifically because we believe God calls us to be accountable to one another and to submit to one another.

We are blessed with a Biblical church, with one that loves and reaches out to the lost. Once again, it's not perfect. And we visited many, many churches that discouraged us before we were led to this one. But, if we hadn't taken that journey that led us through all kinds of "strange" churches, we wouldn't have found the one we are in. Our Father wants us to fellowship, to exhort, to hold accountable. It's impossible to do if we aren't "rubbing up" against one another, be it in a church building or a home church.

I encourage you guys to look again. Your home church is out there, just waiting for you.

I agree with you, I do believe that God will lead us where he wants us to be at a certain time. I grew up in a conservative, but biblical church where the leaders adhered to the Bible and that is not something easy to find these days but I do believe we will be lead to one.

[MornDew247]

Reading everyone's threads makes me feel so badly for so many.
I want you all to come to my church!!!
It took 2 years of going to every church in a 50 mile radius...but it was worth it to find the little church we are in now. It's not about the money...there are no cliques that I have ever been able to discern...most of the congregation is made up of working class and farmers (I go to church in jeans and no one bats an eye) Pastor does not pull any punches, but he is a gifted speaker, who speaks from the heart as well as The Word, and will take the time to listen whenever someone has something to say, even if it is disagreement with something HE has said from the pulpit. My children are welcome, my husband was given work helping to build the new church even though he does not attend with me and the kids, and we have been invited to peoples homes for dinner, found strawberries and fresh eggs on the porch...in short, we have been incredibly blessed with a wonderful spiritual body of people to learn and worship with...
but none of it would have happened if I had given up looking...and searching.
The funny thing is, this church is right down the street from us. I went there almost first thing 3 years ago and had not liked the service much at all, but within a year of going there they got a new pastor, and I gave it another shot.
Thank God He led me to give it another shot!
Don't give up on finding the right church, or move to NY state and come to mine! You would all be most welcome!!!

[walkbyfaith]

I agree with you, I do believe that God will lead us where he wants us to be at a certain time. I grew up in a conservative, but biblical church where the leaders adhered to the Bible and that is not something easy to find these days but I do believe we will be lead to one.

:hug I pray He does this soon for you, and in a way that lets you know how greatly our Lord loves you. :hug

:pray for all to find that Body of Christ our Lord has picked out just for you. :grouphug

[GodsElf]

I thought about this thread tonight and thought I would post since my last statement will seem ironic now. I recently did a family history book and this past Friday met one of the ladies that is in the book. We live near each other, but never knew each other or even that the other existed until I did the book and searched for her through her father's obituary. Anyway, we met, had lunch, and it turns out she has a strong faith in Jesus Christ. The more we talked the more she talked about her church, what they believed, their mission. She invited us to church, and we're going in the morning. I'm so excited, wondering if maybe this is where God may want us to be. They have Sunday School, recognize communion, have a worship service, elders...a traditional, evangelical church. Not a mega church. They are an Alliance & Missionary church, something I have never heard of but seems to be good in their articles of faith.

Nite all.

[Tammy/Kansas]

My sister and I went to a Baptist church when we were around 11 and 12. We were told to leave because we were wearing jeans. My step dad was dying from cancer and that was all we could afford. We then joined the catholic church (which I loved the Christmas eve mass) but drifted away. Became a secretary for 10 yrs at a Disciple of Christ Christian Church, but felt it was not doing anything for me. We are still looking for the right church for us. Maybe Lutheran? Dont know yet.

[Gordon b]

I could think of something negative to say about every church I've ever known of.

A perfect church was once built in my town. Then people started having services in it.

All the true Christian churches I know of are filled with sinners.

[†MARANATHA†]

I regularly attend Calvary Chapel:love, but not today
because last night I dropped a huge can of maters
on my toe and it hurts like:tape :Sob

[Tammy/Kansas]

I regularly attend Calvary Chapel:love, but not today
because last night I dropped a huge can of maters
on my toe and it hurts like:tape :Sob

:therethere :hug

[LooC]

Jesus saw the churches in Rev, judged, rebuked and encouraged them accordingly. Seems to me that was His responsibility and right. He sees it all. That has to be good enough. He saw those in the churches who knew the evil that had already infiltrated those churches.

Maybe a good study on the 7 letters to the 7 churches might help us all.

This concordance search on "churches" (http://cgi.godsview.com/cgi-bin/rcdenig/txtsrch.pl?return=REVELATION+3Qkjvtx11%2Fkt066003&topic=churches) might be good for us, too. I think it'll help me as well because we have deeply rooted problems in my church. I've wanted to leave since 1994. I left, briefly, when I was afraid that instead of "contending for the faith", I was going to become "contentious". What a sin that would've been. It was good that I left.

I also believe that Jesus will judge the churches corporately. The 7 letters are proof of that, IMHO.

I'm pointing my finger at myself & not at anyone else on board.

I'm learning, too.

[Praise him]

This is my second month without attending a service. I have friends who are trying to get me to attend their church. I've shared my bad experiences with them and they were really shocked to hear what I told them. I have no desire to even search for a church. I know many people and posters here have told me continue to search but I am very critical and have no desire. Maybe this is what God wants? Why would he have allowed me to suffer through such bad experiences with the church seeing the negative impressions it has left on me?

[Praise him]

Yes I did. :):

I also noticed how she opened a thread to talk about the purpose of the church which was helpful in teaching how churches are to work

I have incredible stories that could go on for hours and hours about incredulous wrongs done to me in a wide variety of churches. I have been in churches for 44 years. 44 years of church and christian schools can heap a whole lot of negatives in this fallen world. But I rather not focus on those becuase it causes me to go to a negative place in my spirit. I rather forgive those who wronged me and work towards helping the right things. A Church is to be a spiritual hospital and there are a lot of sick people in those hospitals. It is best to look to solutions than how ill the patients are. You would not go into a hospital and get mad at a patient for not treating you right. You would try to do what you could to help them. We of all believers need to be uplifting in how we speak about the church. As Carmen put it much more eliquentlly than I Christ died for her. I think He is quite saddened when He sees believers speaking ill of her for sins He already paid for.


BTW PraiseHim Already forgotten :hug


Mr Hiles I do not have a history of church experiences to seek out the positives. This troubles me. Thus, I have cut back my postings tremendously because I realize I have a negative spirit at this time.

[carmen]

This is my second month without attending a service. I have friends who are trying to get me to attend their church. I've shared my bad experiences with them and they were really shocked to hear what I told them. I have no desire to even search for a church. I know many people and posters here have told me continue to search but I am very critical and have no desire. Maybe this is what God wants? Why would he have allowed me to suffer through such bad experiences with the church seeing the negative impressions it has left on me?If Paul allowed bad experiences to discourage him from continuing his work, we wouldn't have much of a testimony or much of the New Testament :hug

Just because we have bad experiences doesn't mean that a critical spirit comes from the Lord or that it's okay with Him if you maintain one. If you do not wish to search for a church, that's is between you and the Lord, of course. But Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her. We are called to emulate that example and that means bad experiences do not excuse us from letting Him pick us up and heal us from those so we may be of benefit to the body.

A body somewhere needs your gifts, and I truly believe that you are depriving yourself, as well as that body, by not serving there :hug

[Gods Trombone]

You mean go to ANY church whether you agree with the doctrine or not?

:confused

So should we celebrate the disobedience to the word of God.

I mean really. Threads like these generally end up just complaining about how awful the churches are and are not edifying in the least. It is God's institution and we are told to go to church even more as we see the day approaching.

Now I know I will probably offend you but I am sorry for the offense but not to the correction - to blatanly speak directly against the Word of God regardless of your personal experiences is just plain wrong and you know better.

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

And so much the more.

And so much the more.

[RobinB]

I regularly attend Calvary Chapel:love, but not today
because last night I dropped a huge can of maters
on my toe and it hurts like:tape :Sob



:hug

[GodsElf]

I think it has a lot to do with where the person is in their walk and the experience they have. Since I was raised in a church and my grandmother a devout Christian, finding another church has been important to me. My husband, on the other hand, was a new Christian when we saw the church we both loved turn into a battlefield. We had deacons being appointed that were drug users, the pastor was having an affair, and the list goes on. We stayed five years longer than we should. Needless to say, trying to get my husband back in church has not been easy and he is even more leery of those that push him to join right off. He really had trouble reconciling what he saw with what he was being taught in church. Visiting a few others, especially where the preacher saying some pretty vile things, has really turned my husband OFF to church.

I do believe that God's plan is for us to come together as believers but I also believe there are situations that that He does not want us in. If one chooses not to attend a church, I don't think they should give up reading their Bible, praying, or even watching a television preacher. In fact, the program that we watch is in my "signature." That got us through, and still does. Hubby does like one particular program and it watches it regularly.

I will say we did visit another church today, and it was quite nice. Very, very Christ-centered, very friendly. My husband's first comment after we left, "I felt relaxed there." That's a good sign!!!

[Rainbo2]

This is my second month without attending a service. I have friends who are trying to get me to attend their church. I've shared my bad experiences with them and they were really shocked to hear what I told them. I have no desire to even search for a church. I know many people and posters here have told me continue to search but I am very critical and have no desire. Maybe this is what God wants? Why would he have allowed me to suffer through such bad experiences with the church seeing the negative impressions it has left on me?


God does not do anything contrary to His Word:nope So he does want you to be in Church.

I can't answer why God allowed you to go to those churches, only He can. I can just imagine what He would say to me if I tried:lol (see Job)

I still think that a small church, even if it is just a few believers gathered together to share and study the word of God, may make you feel alot more comfortable then one of the larger ones. Jesus Himself said where 2 or more are gathered in my name there am I in there midst.

Please don't give up:hug I'll be praying that God shows you a good bible believing church.

[Singlesis]

Praise Him, take your time. I have been where you are and went nearly a year without attending "church". However, I still fellowshipped with Christian friends, I spent many hours in solitary prayer and bible study, and learned from some great bible teachers through television and Internet. Time and Jesus DO heal. But when we get church-hurt, it really really hurts.

I'm praying for your healing and restoration, and that God will show you how HE wants you to spend this time. Draw closer to Him, and when the time is right and YOUR heart is right, He will lead you where He wants you to be. :nod

[Abba'sLil'Girl]

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


I think it's worth noting that the "assembling" by Christians in Paul's day was usually done at someone's home - not in a multi-million dollar building. Worship was simple and heart-felt - not a production or obligation. Paul exhorts his brethren in Hebrews to support one another. If one takes a closer look at the passage in context, "encouragement of one another" - not church numbers and attendance - is what Paul is speaking of . . .

Hebrews 10:19-25
19 And so, dear brothers and sisters, we can boldly enter heaven’s Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus. 20 By his death, Jesus opened a new and life-giving way through the curtain into the Most Holy Place. 21 And since we have a great High Priest who rules over God’s house, 22 let us go right into the presence of God with sincere hearts fully trusting him. For our guilty consciences have been sprinkled with Christ’s blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24 Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works. 25 And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.

As for Christ, in addition to preaching in the temple - usually to the Pharisees - Jesus taught the people just about everywhere He could . . . in a boat, on a hill, in someone's home, in the city, in the country, etc.

A building or a place does not constitute Christ's church. It is the body of believers worshipping the One true God through Christ, Jesus that draws the Holy Spirit's presence. If one chooses to worship in a church building, then fine. If one chooses to worship in his own home or the home of another, then that's fine too. The best cathedral I've ever worshiped in was under God's big Montana blue sky. God doesn't care where you meet Him . . . just as long as you meet Him.

We must remember that the heart of worship begins with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. He meets you wherever you are. Jesus Christ is The Word of God and our Holy Temple. When He is written on our hearts, worship goes beyond an act of obedience and becomes a pleasure and a delight - no matter where one chooses to worship Him.

Grace and Peace to you.

[walkbyfaith]

Why would he have allowed me to suffer through such bad experiences with the church seeing the negative impressions it has left on me?

We have had to search for a church home several different times (moved from MS to TN), and at times our hearts were very discouraged. I can't tell you the # of churches we have been through. :lol

But, as I look back on those journeys, I realized that one of the things God was giving us through the disappointments was empathy for those who have struggled with finding a church so that we could encourage them. He also used that time to show my husband and I that we needed Scripture written on our hearts and the discernment to know if teachings were Biblical or not. And, we believe that we were to learn to love the people in the churches we traveled through and to find out that no church is going to be perfect, or everything we are looking for, but instead a place where we could come together with other imperfect people to worship a perfect, loving and merciful Lord. :nod

Today, I'm grateful for that journey. My heart is more tender than it ever was, and the gratitude for finding a family of Christ is more than I could have ever imagined.

I encourage you to keep looking, to let the journey make you stronger, and know that God loves you and wants you in fellowship. :hug

I thought about this thread tonight and thought I would post since my last statement will seem ironic now. I recently did a family history book and this past Friday met one of the ladies that is in the book. We live near each other, but never knew each other or even that the other existed until I did the book and searched for her through her father's obituary. Anyway, we met, had lunch, and it turns out she has a strong faith in Jesus Christ. The more we talked the more she talked about her church, what they believed, their mission. She invited us to church, and we're going in the morning. I'm so excited, wondering if maybe this is where God may want us to be. They have Sunday School, recognize communion, have a worship service, elders...a traditional, evangelical church. Not a mega church. They are an Alliance & Missionary church, something I have never heard of but seems to be good in their articles of faith.

Nite all.

What a wonderful God-incident! :nod I continue to pray for your search. If this is the one, I celebrate that with you! :hug

[Praise him]

God recently has put some new Chrsitian people in our lives. I'm attending their church this morning. I pray this goes well. A month ago I told the Lord I was growing tired of waiting on him because I had desired true Christian companionship. These people quickly came back into our lives. One was actually my wife's good friend from high school whom she rarely interacted with since then. That has changed drastically and has changed our lives especially over the past two weeks. I no longer feel so alone.

[comicnurse]

Our family is a bit torn right now :cry

We were all baptized in a baptist church where we used to live. We attended every Sunday. Loved our Sunday school class, active, etc.

Then, we moved. My dh heard about a Methodist church with a Praise and Worship service. So, we visited. He loved it. Which is important because I used to have to drag him to church. :behindsof

Now, two years later, our children do not like to attend. Both of them want to attend a Baptist church where all of their friends go. They attend some of the functions at this church as well. I love it too!

My dh wants to stay at the Methodist church. Me? I have asked him if we can switch churches. His response, is, "It's too far." It is about 25 miles away. I still want to switch- it is important for children- especially teens, to attend church and the youth functions.

Our family loves to go to church, if we could just agree on one! :pout

Kendra

[Singlesis]

God recently has put some new Chrsitian people in our lives. I'm attending their church this morning. I pray this goes well. A month ago I told the Lord I was growing tired of waiting on him because I had desired true Christian companionship. These people quickly came back into our lives. One was actually my wife's good friend from high school whom she rarely interacted with since then. That has changed drastically and has changed our lives especially over the past two weeks. I no longer feel so alone.
:clap

:hug

[Praise him]

The church was a assembly of God. It was very spirit filled but not overly done from what I witnessed. They were good at sticking to scripture and that was the important thing. I will probably go back as I believe God has reintroduced these friends back into our lives for good reason. I talked more about the Lord this weekend than I have in the past year. God gave me the Christian companionship I have so longed for. These people have suffered through many hardships like myself. We could relate to one another.

[John 3:16]

The church was a assembly of God. It was very spirit filled but not overly done from what I witnessed. They were good at sticking to scripture and that was the important thing. I will probably go back as I believe God has reintroduced these friends back into our lives for good reason. I talked more about the Lord this weekend than I have in the past year. God gave me the Christian companionship I have so longed for. These people have suffered through many hardships like myself. We could relate to one another.

That's great, Praise him.:hug


I just loved reading through this thread. We are all so different, yet are all parts of the Body. It is very evident in this thread.:grouphug

[BlessedinHim]

I read most of this thread, I skipped a few posts, so if it has been mentioned, forgive me, but the church is us, not the buildings many of us go to to fellowship together in. While we should fellowship together with other fellow believers, it doesnt mean we should have to attend money grubbing communities who want to lead us down the wrong road.

Baby Christians need a good fellowship of believers to hang out with so they can learn the way and become effective Christians spreading the word wherever they may go and bring more with them to fellowship with.

The way I read it, fellowshipping is about glorifying God, edifying the body, equipping us for every good work and then going out and witnessing to others and bringing more into the fold. Fellowshipping is not really about the unsaved until we go out in the field.

[Enlightenment]

I do believe that Christians are instructed to have fellowship and worship with other Christians. I believe that the verse in Hebrews 10 tells us to do so. This is the verse that is most often used to show that we should go to church.

"not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some"

However....it's not really a forceful command, is it?

Here's a loose interpretation:

"Let's not get out of the habit of worshipping together. Others have done so, but we shouldn't."

I really wish it was a clear-cut command rather than a suggestion.

Now shifting directions completely:
As to Medic's post---just how often does God want us to go to church? We know that the early church met daily. On Paul's missionary trips we know that the church met at least several times a week. Could it be that the verse in Hebrews is chiding people for only assembling a couple of times a week? In other words, maybe the churches being addressed in Hebrews were ONLY meeting once or twice a week? And the writer of Hebrews was displeased with them because they were "forsaking the assembling of themselves together"???

Maybe going to Sunday morning services and Wednesday night prayer meeting is the bare minimum? :noidea

[poetess]

Wow. You all need to move to Hendersonville, TN (why would anyone want to live in any other state anyway?) and come to my church...First Baptist. When we decided to move back to Tennessee I chose the Church first, and we moved to the town that housed the church. I love our church, even though right now, due to the death of our main pastor, we are lacking a senior pastor. The people aren't perfect...but they are perfect enough for me. I'm blown away by the provision God has made for this church. I wish I could attend more than just Sunday mornings (I spend a lot of my non-working hours caring for my elderly parents and my almost 4 twin granddaughters). How can you stay sane and centered without a church?

[Paidfor]

The church was a assembly of God. It was very spirit filled but not overly done from what I witnessed. They were good at sticking to scripture and that was the important thing. I will probably go back as I believe God has reintroduced these friends back into our lives for good reason. I talked more about the Lord this weekend than I have in the past year. God gave me the Christian companionship I have so longed for. These people have suffered through many hardships like myself. We could relate to one another.

:good

[sracer]

I do believe that Christians are instructed to have fellowship and worship with other Christians. I believe that the verse in Hebrews 10 tells us to do so. This is the verse that is most often used to show that we should go to church.



However....it's not really a forceful command, is it?

Here's a loose interpretation:

"Let's not get out of the habit of worshipping together. Others have done so, but we shouldn't."

I really wish it was a clear-cut command rather than a suggestion.

Now shifting directions completely:
As to Medic's post---just how often does God want us to go to church? We know that the early church met daily. On Paul's missionary trips we know that the church met at least several times a week. Could it be that the verse in Hebrews is chiding people for only assembling a couple of times a week? In other words, maybe the churches being addressed in Hebrews were ONLY meeting once or twice a week? And the writer of Hebrews was displeased with them because they were "forsaking the assembling of themselves together"???

Maybe going to Sunday morning services and Wednesday night prayer meeting is the bare minimum? :noidea
I think that we can all agree that there is no hard-n-fast minimum and that it is possible to go overboard in the opposite direction.

As with all things, it is important to interpret Scripture in the literal, grammatical, and historical context. The 1st century church was still young and growing and faced with opposition from without and within. Very frequent gatherings were necessary to help everyone stay on the same page and to help build their faith and strengthen their walk.

One could argue that in these last days, with false doctrine and false religions attacking Christianity from within and without, that times are very similar. I've seen among many many of my brothers and sisters in Christ (who are abiding in Christ) an increased desire for fellowship with the brethren.

I've also seen among those Christians who are NOT abiding in Christ, a lack of that desire.... a "Sunday morning only is a enough" attitude. I've seen churches who were once vibrant, loving and caring for the flock, now on a decline and embracing a SMO attitude.

I've seen a stirring in the hearts of my unbelieving relatives an increased interest and desire for Christian fellowship (even though they don't refer to it by that phrase) and really can't be fellowship if they don't believe... but God's Holy Spirit is definitely moving.

Time is short and believers (true or otherwise) are being sifted and sorted into one of the 7 categories defined by the letters to the 7 churches. I think that the desire for fellowship is one element of that.

[BHiles]

I think that we can all agree that there is no hard-n-fast minimum and that it is possible to go overboard in the opposite direction.

As with all things, it is important to interpret Scripture in the literal, grammatical, and historical context. The 1st century church was still young and growing and faced with opposition from without and within. Very frequent gatherings were necessary to help everyone stay on the same page and to help build their faith and strengthen their walk.

One could argue that in these last days, with false doctrine and false religions attacking Christianity from within and without, that times are very similar. I've seen among many many of my brothers and sisters in Christ (who are abiding in Christ) an increased desire for fellowship with the brethren.

I've also seen among those Christians who are NOT abiding in Christ, a lack of that desire.... a "Sunday morning only is a enough" attitude. I've seen churches who were once vibrant, loving and caring for the flock, now on a decline and embracing a SMO attitude.

I've seen a stirring in the hearts of my unbelieving relatives an increased interest and desire for Christian fellowship (even though they don't refer to it by that phrase) and really can't be fellowship if they don't believe... but God's Holy Spirit is definitely moving.

Time is short and believers (true or otherwise) are being sifted and sorted into one of the 7 categories defined by the letters to the 7 churches. I think that the desire for fellowship is one element of that.

:thumb

and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

prophetic

[John 3:16]

I read most of this thread, I skipped a few posts, so if it has been mentioned, forgive me, but the church is us, not the buildings many of us go to to fellowship together in. While we should fellowship together with other fellow believers, it doesnt mean we should have to attend money grubbing communities who want to lead us down the wrong road.

Baby Christians need a good fellowship of believers to hang out with so they can learn the way and become effective Christians spreading the word wherever they may go and bring more with them to fellowship with.

The way I read it, fellowshipping is about glorifying God, edifying the body, equipping us for every good work and then going out and witnessing to others and bringing more into the fold. Fellowshipping is not really about the unsaved until we go out in the field.



I hear you, but the church worship service(s) IN a church building on a specific day of the week (the day of rest God set aside Himself) is THE manifestation of the Body to the unbeliever. How else is the unbeliever going to SEE the workings of the Body if not within a specific place of fellowship? Our mission is to build the Body and as much as I don't like it when I'm slacking with my church attendance, I remember that people who know me as a christian are watching and wondering why I don't think my faith I have claimed is important enough to fellowship and worship and rest on the day set aside? There are lots of things to argue about in my post, I know, and alot of different ways to see this issue....but this one speaks the loudest for me when I miss church. I may have been appointed to be an example to someone...not just in my daily living (which is going to be lacking in biblical example, at times) but also in my order of priority on Sunday morning. It convicts me.

[John 3:16]

I also just wanted to say that we all have our own individual walks with the Lord and have different experiences that impact our choices and the Lord understands this. That is why I liked this thread so much...seeing the different reasons why people find it hard to go to church and struggle with pleasing the Lord. I completely understand the hurt we can all have at different times of our life and it takes some time to grieve a loss and get on our feet again. It seems that every one of us in this thread...even the ones who are currently hurting and don't attend church....still have a love for the Lord and do not dismiss this issue lightly. Guilt is really not a very good motivator to please the Lord, especially when placed upon believers by other believers that cause their burdens to be heavier, not lightened. The Holy Spirit can do a great job at convicting and the Lord Jesus, the Christ, does an excellent job of healing.\0/

[Praise him]

I also just wanted to say that we all have our own individual walks with the Lord and have different experiences that impact our choices and the Lord understands this. That is why I liked this thread so much...seeing the different reasons why people find it hard to go to church and struggle with pleasing the Lord. I completely understand the hurt we can all have at different times of our life and it takes some time to grieve a loss and get on our feet again. It seems that every one of us in this thread...even the ones who are currently hurting and don't attend church....still have a love for the Lord and do not dismiss this issue lightly. Guilt is really not a very good motivator to please the Lord, especially when placed upon believers by other believers that cause their burdens to be heavier, not lightened. The Holy Spirit can do a great job at convicting and the Lord Jesus, the Christ, does an excellent job of healing.\0/

Very good points. I remained in bondage because of a wicked pastor and have dealt with some wicked Christians. When you start following a bunch of rules then that leads to legalism. Christ is supposed to bring you freedom and peace but that ceases when we start following rules. That is a big reason why I have left churches. Then when they start using guilt to get money I know to run. Many times I could tell who was giving the church a lot of money because the pastor would spend a lot of time with them while ignoring others. I have learned so much from this. The Lord has blessed me with great awareness and discernment. I met a woman who is a very intelligent woman on top of being a great Christian. She told me a lot about myself and she was around me for only a few days and had never met me before. She said the Lord was preparing me for spiritual warfare and some other things. I chuckled because I don't see myself as someone with some special calling. She knew that I had seen combat in Gulf war 1. I shared some of my past with her. It was some great fellowship to hear what her family has had to endure. She reminded me that once someone started to judge my walk then I should flee because it is not of the Lord. We are all in different stages of our walk.

[John 3:16]

We are all in different stages of our walk.

Yes we are. Someone on this board once told me something that stuck with me and helped me love those who I find difficult. She said that legalists are living in a straightjacket of their faith. Just picture that and imagine what misery it is.

It's a fine line to walk, our walk with the Lord because grace is NOT cheap, it didn't come cheap and I am in awe that our Creator loved us enough to suffer so for the forgiveness of our sins, MY sins. I don't want my posts to be interpreted as I think "anything goes" because I most certainly don't. Those who have a love for the Lord want to please Him. He is holy and He is our standard.

[Violin Girl]

Yes we are. Someone on this board once told me something that stuck with me and helped me love those who I find difficult. She said that legalists are living in a straightjacket of their faith. Just picture that and imagine what misery it is.

It's a fine line to walk, our walk with the Lord because grace is NOT cheap, it didn't come cheap and I am in awe that our Creator loved us enough to suffer so for the forgiveness of our sins, MY sins. I don't want my posts to be interpreted as I think "anything goes" because I most certainly don't. Those who have a love for the Lord want to please Him. He is holy and He is our standard.

Good post! :wave

[Paul]

A body somewhere needs your gifts, and I truly believe that you are depriving yourself, as well as that body, by not serving there :hugI just started going to a smaller church. One reason was because (maybe ironically) it's easier to make friends at a smaller church, and a second reason is because of what you said above. Bhiles said the same thing to me a while back and it's always stuck with me. We're given gifts in order to serve fellow believers and I want to do that.

[thornrose]

I have been attending a little Assembly of God off and on for about 4 1/2 years. It is small but full of friendship and love. And you couldn't get more sounder doctrine from the minister, he really preaches good messages that almost always are on target. I was out of church for about 6 years before going here. I didn't like being without a church, but I am glad I waited patiently, it's been worth it.

[Doxiemom]

I have gone to a catholic church, left it because I was plain lazy, went back, wanted to leave but didn't, and now I go again.

I was away in another country for a month and , I admit, got lazy, and did not go to Mass. Felt a bit guilty, but I justified it. Of course I am dead wrong about that.

What I found was that I didn't think on God much. Oh, a few times I prayed, espcially during that long over the pacific ocean flight. Now I wanted God to find time for me. Didn't give Him 20 minutes of my time for 3 &1/2 weeks.

Conclusion: more than just for the Jewsih Sabbaths, the commandment was given because God, in all His Wisdom, knew what it takes for the ordinary human to stay in focus. Some of us are very disiplined and worship God all the time. A whole lot of us will not be so wondeful. We fail alot on our own. As always, He knew what was Good for us.

So, with few exceptions, we need church. A real building, with real people, in real time.

[Twinklr]

To LooC and anyone else within driving distance of Cabot, AR:

If you want the meat of the Word, come to my church. My pastor isn't shy about pointing out things that don't go along with scripture. He's a humble man that guides the ones God has entrusted to him with love and respect, but he's not afraid to tell you where you're erring. He's gotten on me a couple of times about some things, but I love him even more for it. He's also not afraid to listen when someone points out his own errors. He's said many times that if he's wrong, show him from scripture and he'll speak it from the pulpit if your case is proven. His wife is a wonderful woman of God, and his children, 19, 17, and 15, are the most respectful and mature kids you'll ever meet. He truly exemplifies what it means to have your house in order.

He was run out of Quapaw, literally attacked and had to run, for stating biblical truth about homosexuality and 'petting' sins. We also had a couple of families, who contributed a large portion of the church's income through tithes, leave because he wouldn't bow to their demands on what he should be preaching and what he should be avoiding. They threatened it (leaving and taking their money with them) for months and finally left when he wouldn't give in. My pastor was heart broken that they left us because he truly loved them, but he refused to compromise on the teaching of the Word of God.

Aside from our Sunday morning services, we also have prayer meetings on Monday and Tuesday nights. Then there's teaching on Wednesday night.

PM me if you want directions. :wave

[BlessedinHim]

To LooC and anyone else within driving distance of Cabot, AR:

If you want the meat of the Word, come to my church. My pastor isn't shy about pointing out things that don't go along with scripture. He's a humble man that guides the ones God has entrusted to him with love and respect, but he's not afraid to tell you where you're erring. He's gotten on me a couple of times about some things, but I love him even more for it. He's also not afraid to listen when someone points out his own errors. He's said many times that if he's wrong, show him from scripture and he'll speak it from the pulpit if your case is proven. His wife is a wonderful woman of God, and his children, 19, 17, and 15, are the most respectful and mature kids you'll ever meet. He truly exemplifies what it means to have your house in order.

He was run out of Quapaw, literally attacked and had to run, for stating biblical truth about homosexuality and 'petting' sins. We also had a couple of families, who contributed a large portion of the church's income through tithes, leave because he wouldn't bow to their demands on what he should be preaching and what he should be avoiding. They threatened it (leaving and taking their money with them) for months and finally left when he wouldn't give in. My pastor was heart broken that they left us because he truly loved them, but he refused to compromise on the teaching of the Word of God.

Aside from our Sunday morning services, we also have prayer meetings on Monday and Tuesday nights. Then there's teaching on Wednesday night.

PM me if you want directions. :wave

That is wonderful, we need more pastors and teacher like that. You are blessed to have such a pastor and church family. There arent too many who are brave enough to stand up and tell it like it is and big enough to accept the way it is and to be able to be held accountable.

That is one thing that is truly lacking today and that is responsibility for oneself and your own actions.

Again, you are blessed.

[Praise him]

The Lord I believe has placed me where he wants me. I have finally found a church home. I praise you Lord!

[Paidfor]

The Lord I believe has placed me where he wants me. I have finally found a church home. I praise you Lord!

\O/

[BHiles]

The Lord I believe has placed me where he wants me. I have finally found a church home. I praise you Lord!


Excellent. Just like a marriage you will go through a honeymoon period but after it is over don't be discouraged. They need you.

[BlessedinHim]

Praise the Lord!!!

[Tammy/Kansas]

My mother found a Lutheran church in Springfield Mo that she just loves. We will be moving there soon. The church she use to go to, I felt was not right for me. Then I went to a church with my Uncle and that church was hugh. I must have had 15 different people welcome me from the parking lot to the sanctuary! This one sounds just right. Cant wait to go to a service there. They are a mixture of catholic and christian (?)

[Rainbo2]

My mother found a Lutheran church in Springfield Mo that she just loves. We will be moving there soon. The church she use to go to, I felt was not right for me. Then I went to a church with my Uncle and that church was hugh. I must have had 15 different people welcome me from the parking lot to the sanctuary! This one sounds just right. Cant wait to go to a service there. They are a mixture of catholic and christian (?)

Most Catholics are Christians:nod, that's the equivalent of saying, they are a mixture of Baptist and Christians.

I pray that your new church is a great one and you learn and grow there.:hug