"Soaking Prayer" ??

[Singlesis]

Heard of it? Not long ago a lady told me that her church (in our town) was doing this, and she had seen people "healed". Yesterday, flipping channels, I found the 700 Club welcoming a guest who was one of these "soaking prayer" people... you go to their website and they send you a "kit", to teach you how to do this. You can set up a "Soaking Prayer Center" in your church or town!

At first it just sounded like deep intense prayer time, but after closer look, it seems dangerously new-agey to me.

Thoughts?

http://www.soakingprayer.org

[Singlesis]

The aim of soaking prayer is to put oneself in an attitude of stillness, focusing on Jesus without an agenda.

“It’s a time where all your prayer requests and all the things on your mind are put to the side,” she says. “It’s a time when you say, ‘Lord, I come to You for Your heart and not for Your hand.’ Soaking is really about resting in the Father’s love.”

HOW TO SOAK

Find a comfortable place to lie down. Allow the busyness of your thoughts to quiet down. Invite the Holy spirit to soak you in His presence. Pray and surrender yourself to the Holy Spirit – mind, body and soul.

IS SOAKING BIBLICAL?

This is what the Bible says:

“The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul.” Psalm 23:1-3

“...Meditate within your heart on your bed, and be still.” Psalm 4:4

“Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him.” Psalm 37:7

“Be still and know that I am God.” Psalm 46:10

DEFINITIONS

Soak: To become thoroughly wet, or saturated by immersion, to drink excessively, to become drunk, to take in, to soak up.

Lie down: To place oneself, or be in a prostrate position in order to rest. To accept without protest or opposition.

Quiet: To be untroubled, free from activities or distractions. Still, calm.

Rest: To relax from exertion, or labor, to repose or sleep, a pause or interval.

Wait: To stay in one place, or remain inactive in expectation of something.



http://www.cbn.com/700club/guests/bios/Marguerite_Evans021508.aspx

[barb43]

Yeh, sounds like a "clearing your mind" exercise. :tsk The book of Ecclesiastes tells us there is nothing new under the sun. There truly isn't, no matter how it's packaged.

[roadrunner570]

I'm not sure what the problem with this is, if you are focusing on God..I figure that would be a good thing.

[watchman]

Messiah was asked "how do we pray"?

Now this was by people, who were raised in and steeped in a very "prayerful" society.

Everybody prayed about everything (we Jews still do).

We have blessings for everything, almost every thing is a issue we thank G-d for.

So why would these people ask Messiah how to pray?

Because they wanted the effective means of communication with the Father. They saw how Messiah was confident, content, calm and had the ability to teach and show others an effective walk. He proved his faith by his works, and his works by his faith. They observed him in prayer, and knew that something was different.

He laid out the method or rather the "spirit" or how we should align ourselves with G-d's purpose to pray effectively.

He teaches us that prayer is more about moving us to the GPS" (G-d Position Space) that we need to be in.

Or in other words, prayer makes us aware and mindful of what is in our mind and heart, our attitudes and thoughts and let's us see sort of how G-d sees things. It gets us out of what we think is important, and focused on what is eternally important, then from that, we do and act and think in a manner that pleases G-d and allows us to be useful.

Meditations and New Age type "meditation" or "prayers" may work in part because we become mindful of things other than ourselves, but because it does not focus on G-d and His Purpose, we will find we fall way short of eternal "thinking" and we simply are "better" or whatever for a temporary period of time.

G-d centered prayer makes us eternally mindful, and the things we are shown or understand as revealed by the Holy Spirit, are permanent and help us.

The "New Age" is like sweet candy, we like the instant gratification, and the overwhelming sensation of that sweetness, but it is empty and lacks any ability to sustain us.

G-d centered worship is like the complex, but sometimes bland foods we need to give us the long term health and stamina we need.

That is all...

[moimeme]

Watchman...then how would you define meditation? You make it sound as if all meditation is satanic and evil yet the psalms tell us to meditate on the things of God.


When I do the soaking thing, the phrase that comes to mind is "be still and know that I am God"...

I'm not sure how "prayerful" the society of Jesus' time was since he was always telling them (the religious establishment) that they were hypocrites and causing people to be miserable.

I think His point was focus on God, not the form of the prayer, not how eloquent you sound, etc.

The only thing you cleanse your mind of during soaking is stuff that is not God centred (like work schedules, grocery lists etc).

The goal of soaking prayer is to make "us aware and mindful of what is in our mind and heart, our attitudes and thoughts and let's us see sort of how G-d sees things. It gets us out of what we think is important, and focused on what is eternally important, then from that, we do and act and think in a manner that pleases G-d and allows us to be useful"

If Jesus himself would withdraw to a quiet plce to seek His Father, then so should we.


You don"t really need a kit, just get your Bible, go somewhere quiet, get comfortable and seek God, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

[MornDew247]

We spoke about Godly meditation verses new-age meditation last week in church. In new-age you are emptying your mind and allowing peace to enter. In Godly meditation we are to activly meditate on the Word of God, seeking him. The difference is active seeking and passive allowing.Our pastor of course put it MUCH better. I'll have to look for my notes!

[moimeme]

We spoke about Godly meditation verses new-age meditation last week in church. In new-age you are emptying your mind and allowing peace to enter. In Godly meditation we are to activly meditate on the Word of God, seeking him. The difference is active seeking and passive allowing.Our pastor of course put it MUCH better. I'll have to look for my notes!

I think you summarized your pastor and my thoughts quite nicely...but looking forward to seeing the notes too!

[watchman]

Normally I don't do a line by line, but I would like to address your points so it does not appear as a brush off answer.


Watchman...then how would you define meditation? You make it sound as if all meditation is satanic and evil yet the psalms tell us to meditate on the things of God.
No I did/do not. I stated clearly that meditation upon G-d, is what we do in prayer, but it it the means not the end of the means.


When I do the soaking thing, the phrase that comes to mind is "be still and know that I am God"...
You may well be simply prayerful and adopted the label of "soaking" nothing wrong with that. I never attacked meditative prayer. Again, if it is G-d centered and devoted to worship of Him, rather than focus on a methodology or the routine.


I'm not sure how "prayerful" the society of Jesus' time was since he was always telling them (the religious establishment) that they were hypocrites and causing people to be miserable. Let's equate the Scribes, Pharisees and the Sanhedrin of that time, to Americas three branches of government.

In both societies were the government (three branches) and the people. Both societies had people who were well versed in the "politics" of their leadership, those who had some understanding, those with little understanding, those who misunderstood and those who did not care.

On the governing side, there were some who were wholly corrupt, some who were mislead or followers, and those who were good and proper.

Messiah addressed the entire body of government as corrupt and responsible for many of the errors of teaching and governing of the people> He also spoke to the people as if they were responsible for what they thought and believed without making excuse because of government.

If I were to claim that our government is unlawful and bad for the people, it does not infer that the people are all lawbreakers nor corrupt.

So if I came to America and spoke to the government and declared they were all corrupt and power hungry and failing to lead and govern the people, and then the people asked me "Teach us how do we obey law of the land?" I would point that the constitution declares the law and that each person who honors that constitution is law abiding. This example allows one to see that even if the top is corrupt, the people can still be wholly good.

Likewise, the society in Judea 2000 years ago was made up much like our own, and it was the "politics" and hearts of the leadership, that was a failure, it was not that the entire people of Judea were immoral and corrupt, just without leadership.

Messiah basically told them to follow G-d, not man, but he also told the people that those in power had the authority of Moses, because they stated the truth of the Law, which was never in dispute, but their behaviors and conduct was not to be emulated.

Sorry for the side trip, but I am trying to clarify that the people knew prayer, but wanted to have effective prayer, for they saw lack in their lives of effective prayer, contrasted with Messiah's.

And you can bet there were many who had lots of "methods" in that day (as is evidenced in the books of the day, but that is a whole 'nother thread...)


I think His point was focus on God, not the form of the prayer, not how eloquent you sound, etc. You are correct, but again, it is the focus on G-d first, and the relationship, the motive the intent of the heart that Messiah was pointing out as the correct "ordering" sort of like setting the table for a meal, there is order, you set the table in the proper place, you put the table cloth on, then the plates, flatware, glasses etc. You put the glasses to the back of the plates, not in front, you put flatware to the sides, not behind the glass etc. So that it is effective.

Messiah stated that we must get our mind on G-d, by first considering the manner which we approach Him. It was modeled after the offering of the sacrifices, and prayers in the Temple.
In Judaism we are taught that G-d desires separation of the Holy form the Profane. It is all throughout the teachings. So we must separate ourselves from the distractions of the worldly in order to enter into the correct frame of mind to be influenced when we pray.
Meditation upon G-d is just that. But the focus is most important.

The only thing you cleanse your mind of during soaking is stuff that is not God centered (like work schedules, grocery lists etc).
For everyone that "soaks"? Or from your perspective? You and I are on the same page in this matter more than you might think.

The goal of soaking prayer is to make "us aware and mindful of what is in our mind and heart, our attitudes and thoughts and let's us see sort of how G-d sees things. It gets us out of what we think is important, and focused on what is eternally important, then from that, we do and act and think in a manner that pleases G-d and allows us to be useful"The goal of prayer, has always been that, the idea that this is the goal of "soaking" prayer seems (to me anyway) that until "soaking" was used, this was not possible.


If Jesus himself would withdraw to a quiet place to seek His Father, then so should we. He said that, and I said the same thing. As Messiah stated not to pray standing and orating in public in order to impress, but to so so in secret. BTW, when we done Tefillin and cover our heads with the Tallit, we are in a separate and private place, and have effectively shut out the world. It is symbolic of covering ourselves with G-d's glory and reminding ourselves Who we are covered by.
All that we put on, is much like when I was in the military, we put on specific articles of clothing that make up the uniform, and that puts our mind on who we are and who we owe our service to. That is the same with prayer.

You don"t really need a kit, just get your Bible, go somewhere quiet, get comfortable and seek God, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.You are correct.

My post originally was not to imply that anyone who does soaking is in error, or that soaking is evil, But the New Age philosophy that is often wrapped up, or that people are wrapped up in, is a concern. If it did not occur time and time again , I would never comment about it. Even the scriptures are full of warnings, we are at war, and the enemy is very crafty, if he could fool the first man and woman who spoke directly to G-d, an had no other influences in their lives but G-d so easily, you think he cannot fool any of us?

But as Romans 8:28, even all of the years of his efforts, have been his undoing, for in that time we simply see a better revelation of him and his tactics, and the time to "catch him about his business" is much easier than perhaps the first time.

So, do not take my concern as a personal attack on you or your method, for it may well be fine for you. But there are so many that are looking for the "quick fix" and "instant" answer to every problem an those are for whom the warnings are intended.

Hope that helps.
wm

[barb43]

The aim of soaking prayer is to put oneself in an attitude of stillness, focusing on Jesus without an agenda.

“It’s a time where all your prayer requests and all the things on your mind are put to the side,” she says. “It’s a time when you say, ‘Lord, I come to You for Your heart and not for Your hand.’ Soaking is really about resting in the Father’s love.”

This bothers me. I'm not sure whether the writer speaks out of both sides of his/her mouth or not. If all i'm putting aside is the daily racket that runs through my head about work, family, home, etc. and i am focusing on God, then i don't see something wrong with it. But i do think i need something specific to focus on God about - not just clear my mind and be still, because all the voices in the universe are not God's and there's no telling what will come creeping in. I need some scripture to pray about or to ask for clarification on, or something . . . Not just lie down and be empty-headed. :noidea The lying down part doesn't set well with me either, but that's probably a personal preference - if i'm lying down, i'm sleeping! :B:

[Rainbo2]

This bothers me. I'm not sure whether the writer speaks out of both sides of his/her mouth or not. If all i'm putting aside is the daily racket that runs through my head about work, family, home, etc. and i am focusing on God, then i don't see something wrong with it. But i do think i need something specific to focus on God about - not just clear my mind and be still, because all the voices in the universe are not God's and there's no telling what will come creeping in. I need some scripture to pray about or to ask for clarification on, or something . . . Not just lie down and be empty-headed. :noidea The lying down part doesn't set well with me either, but that's probably a personal preference - if i'm lying down, i'm sleeping! :B:



The lying down part bothers me also. If I lie down I tend to get to relaxed and go to sleep. Maybe thats just my personal problem though. I just think that it seems a little to casual, but then I'm all for praying however you can best focus on God. I prefer to pray on my knees, it reminds me that I am before God and I find that I can focus better on Him. Again that is just a personal thing.

I'm just not sure about this soaking prayer thing, it sounds gimmicky to me. Like just one more in a long line of ways to plug in to God.

[barb43]

Aren't we instructed to pray without ceasing? I can't find the passage I'm thinking of, but what struck me is that i can (and do) pray anytime anywhere. :noidea

That's not to say, of course, that i don't have specific prayer time, because i do - but that's not the limit of my prayers or prayer times.

[hapimom98]

We spoke about Godly meditation verses new-age meditation last week in church. In new-age you are emptying your mind and allowing peace to enter. In Godly meditation we are to activly meditate on the Word of God, seeking him. The difference is active seeking and passive allowing.Our pastor of course put it MUCH better. I'll have to look for my notes!


Amen. I just read something about this recently and basically it said the same thing.....it is dangerous to empty your mind and allow "whatever" to enter. However, actively meditating on God's Word is biblical.

[Caleb]

So that's what we use those prayer cloths for, to soak up prayer!!!

[Rainbo2]

So that's what we use those prayer cloths for, to soak up prayer!!!

:spit


Barb, I do pray all the time:nod I love walking and talking to God. In my post I meant that special time I set aside to really pray, usually before bed cause if I prayed when woke up it'd be in grunts and mumbles:didisaythat

Not a morning person doesn't even begin to cover it.

[watchman]

NJEKqI1e714

[LooC]

The lying down part bothers me also. If I lie down I tend to get to relaxed and go to sleep.

Odd that I should read this.

Years ago when I was studying the New Age from a Christian POV, just as I was drifting off to sleep one night, it was as if I 'saw' a curtain pull back and a man stepped around & said, "Allow me to introduce myself." Man I woke up quick. I know this wasn't my imagination or a dream. I remember thinking, "No!" and the curtain closed.

Before going to sleep last night, I started thinking about what it would be like to 'experience God' in a different way (Emergent). It was seductive. I recognized where my thoughts were leading, repented, and simply asked God to watch over me.

I drifted off to sleep in the complete confidence that I was in the Father's hands & that He was pleased with my act of faith.

1 TIMOTHY 4
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to SEDUCING spirits, and doctrines of devils;

These type of attacks from Satan will only get worse in these End Times. We need to recognize them & understand that Christians are Satan's primary targets. Read about 'soaking prayer' from online ministries who are led by God to teach discernment.

Physical symptoms, which can include things like a tingling sensation, that occur during Soaking Prayer are similar to those experienced during the Kundalini experience, and both are dangerous and can take the practitioner into a demonic realm.

"Some leaders get tingling in their hands, some have their hands get warm when healing is about to occur, some feel "power surges" going through their bodies. Some claim that they see a person's "aura" when soaking a person in prayer. Soaking means pouring out lots of prayer over a person, often with laying on of hands and/or passing the hands over a person. It is reminiscent of what is called "Therapeutic Touch" [Reiki] practiced by new age and alternative medicine enthusiasts. People who believe in soaking prayer get the sense that power is passing through their bodies and actually helping to bring healing, comfort and love. And those who are soaking someone testify that they feel waves coming from the person or going toward the person being prayed for. Certainly something may be felt or experienced, however, is it the Holy Spirit?" TORONTO BLESSING: CHRISTIAN-BASED MAGIC? by Kent Philpott
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/soakingprayer.htm
http://www.crossroad.to/Q&A/church/postmodern/soaking.htm

P.S.
A red flag goes up when a group of ladies in my church go 'prayer walking'. I'd like to know why? :confused The only thing I can find that's similar to that is 'walking the labyrinth'. If any of you have looked into prayer walking, please :pm.

[watchman]

It is the subtle things that get us.

If you take one nanogram of the Botulinum neurotoxin bacteria and put it in a glass of water, that water would be nearly 99.9% pure, but it would kill you.

Or as I saw a bumper sticker once, that said; "How much sin can I get away with, and still get to heaven?"

Some my think that "cute" and others may think that a little error is no big deal.

But the Word tells us not to despise small beginnings. We usually ascribe that to the small things of G-d and their ability to become great things.

But just as an acorn can become a mighty oak, a single piece of fruit caused the fall of the entire human race.

So, before someone thinks "legalism" it is more about being mindful of the subtle and cunning enemy, rather than simply overlooking things because they seem insignificant.

There are many who have fallen prey to teachings and doctrines which have led to bad ends, and none of those people ever got up and declared,; "Today I shall start a journey that leads me astray from G-d..."

[LooC]

Watchman: that video is "no longer available". What was it about?

[barb43]

Yes, now that's an ad for Sham-Wow! Thank you for sharing your experience, LooC! :nod

[Rainbo2]

It is the subtle things that get us.

If you take one nanogram of the Botulinum neurotoxin bacteria and put it in a glass of water, that water would be nearly 99.9% pure, but it would kill you.

Or as I saw a bumper sticker once, that said; "How much sin can I get away with, and still get to heaven?"

Some my think that "cute" and others may think that a little error is no big deal.

But the Word tells us not to despise small beginnings. We usually ascribe that to the small things of G-d and their ability to become great things.

But just as an acorn can become a mighty oak, a single piece of fruit caused the fall of the entire human race.

So, before someone thinks "legalism" it is more about being mindful of the subtle and cunning enemy, rather than simply overlooking things because they seem insignificant.

There are many who have fallen prey to teachings and doctrines which have led to bad ends, and none of those people ever got up and declared,; "Today I shall start a journey that leads me astray from G-d..."



So true Watchman. I like the old saying that you trip over a pebble and not a mountain, when describing how small subtle things trip us up.

A song on Brad Paisleys latest cd is full of bad theology. It's called Bigger Fish to Fry and is so disturbing. Basically it is saying that hey our sins don't matter because the Devil has bigger fish to fry, and hell won't have room for you and me:tsk Get this the next song on the cd is the old hymn When We all Get to Heaven.:gah

LooC, I'll have to check out those links. If I'm going to argue against something I need to know what I'm up against. Although ultimately it will be God who wins the fight:nod

[watchman]

Watchman: that video is "no longer available". What was it about?

It's the "Sham-Wow" artificial chamois that the late nite commercial guy, sort of like the OxyMoron guy, goes on about how one Sham-Wow can soak up the entire Pacific ocean and still have room for all of Hillary's crocodile tears.

I was poking fun on the "soaking" term, and "prayer cloths".

Just being bad. :didisaythat

No harm intended, it was just to lighten the thread. :becky

[barb43]

It's the "Sham-Wow" artificial chamois that the late nite commercial guy, sort of like the OxyMoron guy, goes on about how one Sham-Wow can soak up the entire Pacific ocean and still have room for all of Hillary's crocodile tears.

I was poking fun on the "soaking" term, and "prayer cloths".

Just being bad. :didisaythat

No harm intended, it was just to lighten the thread. :becky

:hysterical Oh, watchman! You ornery boy! That totally went over my head! :pound

[Hunger For More]

I have always appreciated a "Calgon-Take-Me-Away" bath, and I have fallen asleep a few times, especially if I was really tired. Can't say that I prayed during that time, just wouldn't seem appropriate since I didn't have on clothes (prayer type or otherwise).

You know, someone might have had a true Godly experience while soaking in a hot bath, anything is possible with God. But for that type of experience to become part of some movement, where they have a kit and have rules and expectations, that is just a bunch of whooey. Some people are grasping for anything to get some kind of meaning in their lives. They are making it more difficult than it was ever intended to be. If it wasn't so sad, it would be a great SNL skit.