Self Confrontation

[PlentyGroovy]

I'm attending a self confrontation class at church. We have homework every week and I'm not sure on this question. I have to explain what 2 Corinthians 3:5-6 means to me.

5Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Does this go back to 'I will boast only in the Lord, since everything I have comes from Him. There is nothing of my own worthy of boasting'? Or is it saying, we are competent to be teachers about the new covenant because He has given us the competence?

Any thoughts? This week's lesson has been focused on how we are dirty rags, low, unworthy, and how our only worthiness is through Christ and what He did for us.

[haeschen]

Seems like a good study, as long as you see yourself afterwards complete in Him. We are sinners incapable of cleaning ourselves up. We need to come to the cross as sinners, but accept the cleansing Jesus blood provides, and continue to let the water of the washing of the word renew us in the spirit of our minds.
Have you checked other Bible versions to see if the use of different words makes the meaning clearer?
Personally, I believe that all believers/disciples should be able ministers of declaring God's plan of salvation, if they rely on the Holy Spirit and not on their own ability or any man's formula.
Reading the book of Acts shows that anybody can be called upon to minister by the Lord.the gospel - Philip and the eunuch - Ananias and Saul
Availability is a greater asset to the Lod than ability. Natural learned ability can turn into trusting the letter/words without the anointing more than the Holy Spirit who quickens the right approach and right scriptures to our heart, just as Jesus promised in the gospel.

[PlentyGroovy]

It just started up a few weeks ago but everybody walked out liked drowned cats after the last class. One guy was saying but God loves us...I think they were driving home the reason we have to give up all our fleshly sinful wants and the importance of obedience...?

I was looking around at all the versions and reading commentaries. A lot of them got into how Paul was telling the church that it wasn't his doing that brought about the church but God working through him.

I'm going to go with my first thoughts on how we have nothing to boast about except what God has done for us.:nod And we are part of a new covenant, not based on law and sacrifice but on grace.

[Praise him]

I'm always careful about attending such classes.Some of these pastors have control issues. A lot of times some of these pastors use these courses to try to manipulate and control their congregations. I've seen it with my own eyes. One pastor tried to use my parents in a effort to control me. He knew my family for years and knew that my mother had control issues. I believe he told her that she could insure her salvation through my church attendance and tithes. He tried to do these things through her in a effort to make it less obvious. I later found out.

[haeschen]

It just started up a few weeks ago but everybody walked out liked drowned cats after the last class. One guy was saying but God loves us...I think they were driving home the reason we have to give up all our fleshly sinful wants and the importance of obedience...?

I was looking around at all the versions and reading commentaries. A lot of them got into how Paul was telling the church that it wasn't his doing that brought about the church but God working through him.

I'm going to go with my first thoughts on how we have nothing to boast about except what God has done for us.:nod And we are part of a new covenant, not based on law and sacrifice but on grace.

Good answer - good plan!

[PlentyGroovy]

I'm always careful about attending such classes.Some of these pastors have control issues. A lot of times some of these pastors use these courses to try to manipulate and control their congregations. I've seen it with my own eyes. One pastor tried to use my parents in a effort to control me. He knew my family for years and knew that my mother had control issues. I believe he told her that she could insure her salvation through my church attendance and tithes. He tried to do these things through her in a effort to make it less obvious. I later found out.

:freaked That's not good, what sort of church was this??? I trust my church, it's not perfect but until they give me a reason to think otherwise, they are good. The class is being taught by fellow church members who have taken the class previously. Some of them dropped the class because it is a tough one but returned when it was offered again. They advise to stick with it even when it gets really convicting. The class is called solving problems God's way.

[PlentyGroovy]

Good answer - good plan!

:): Hope you're around for when I start this week's homework!!

[joy4Him2day]

Any thoughts? This week's lesson has been focused on how we are dirty rags, low, unworthy, and how our only worthiness is through Christ and what He did for us.

This gives me a sick feeling in my stomach. There is a counterfeit thought in the line of our "unworthiness" that is destructive. Jesus told his disciples: "I came to GIVE life, not destroy it." when there attitude reflected the thought above about a city that rejected Jesus. Jesus prefaced his words with: "You know not what spirit ye are of" .

Although it is true that we have nothing to offer each other aside from the grace of God---because everything we touch is tainted with our common fallen nature--thereby, not pure--in coming to know ourselves, we learn not to "trust" even in our own GOODNESS, which, compared to real righteousness rates about equal to filthy rags----that is to say, it doesn't come close.

In stating Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied, Jesus explains the incompetency that Paul eludes to....Jesus says, in the area of righteousness---you truly are poor and must seek to be filled. When we know ourselves, when we truly know ourselves, we know this to be true.....and no longer take it for granted that our goodness is always from above, that sometimes, we are secretly still trying to manipulate life our way.......

So, William Barclay says it sounds like this: O, the bliss of the man who longs for total righteousness as a starving man longs for food, and a man perishing of thirst longs for water, for that man will be truly satisfied!

You might think this verse is irrelevant to the discussion, but here is where I tie it in. For a long time, I read the verse like this:

Blessed are the righteous who hunger and thirst after God, for they shall be filled.

And that, is because I wasn't honest about my condition, and therefore, didn't feel my desperation. When we think like this, we get satisfied too soon. We get satisfied at the first drink that slacks our thirst, we get satisfied at the piece of bread that takes away the hunger pain......what we don't realize is our starving condition, and we don't ask for enough.

When a man/woman knows himself----then he is something. (quote by Robert Browning)..I believe this is so, because then-------he/she will truly lean on God. It doesn't mean God thinks he is dirty rags, a loser, a bad child. It means that God's child has finally admitted how much dependence he must have towards God----and when this happens----he shall be satisfied, because then, HE WILL LET GOD FEED HIM.

Knowing yourself, then, is an honest look at your depravity, but it doesn't make you less valuable to God. It's a little bit like a physician sitting you down and telling you the worst of the worst, while holding your hand and saying confidently, "we will get through this, TRUST ME" --only it is the Great Physician. But if you refuse to believe you are as bad as he diagnosis'---you will get no help from him.....and if we never come to the knowledge of the truth about ourselves --individually---(we can assent to corporate fallen man)---we never get our thirst and hunger satisfied God-wise. It's not His fault----we just live in denial too long.

Somewhere it says, Jesus trusted no man, for He knew what was in their heart....and you know what? we should keep that close to our conscienceness, because, frankly, for the most part, we, too, are untrustworthy...so we must seek his Sword of the Spirit, to divide the right from the wrong in our little wicked and deceitful heart---even while we are "righteous" in His sight, because He washed us in His blood---it doesn't make us unable to be deceived---even by ourselves, but in the same manner, it doesn't make us less to Him, who would die for us, we are worth it to Him.

AMEN.

[PlentyGroovy]

We've done a lot of focusing on man's way versus God's way. How the heart is wicked and when left to our own devices...whoo boy, we don't do very well but if we turn to scripture, it is sufficient to help us through anything. An interesting point brought up last night...problems = sin. The teacher said every problem is synomous with a sin, or something like that. I need to think on that because say a tornado takes your house, big problem but that isn't tied to sin. Maybe how you deal with a tornado taking your house?? You could give up, lose faith, fear the worst but on the other hand, you could get up, brush yourself off, trust God to help you through it.

Right now, I have to come up with my biggest problem (sin) that I should be dealing with...the book even has a whole list if you can't think one up...like anger, self pity, greed, etc. etc. The whole point of the class is work on yourself and then you'll be able to counsel others.

Oh, we also talked about joy and peace through any trial, to be grateful for the trial because it is refining us to become more like Christ. And how the definitions for joy and peace are different than the world's definitions.

[John 3:16]

I have a MacArthur study bible, and the heading of chapter 3, verse 4-6 is "The Spirit, not the Letter". So it seems that the focus of those verses is on that topic...not exactly sure how you are to to tie that to your lesson on sin. But what my study says is that "the Letter" of the law is a shallow external conformity to the law that missed it's most basic requirement of holy love for God and man and that the letter of the law is a distortion of it's true intention, which is to make a person recognize his sinfulness. It says that the letter kills in two ways; a living death (steals peace, joy and hope) and a spiritual death since it is impossible to keep the law. Paul was relying on this until his spiritual conversion.

So to summarize, what it means to me is that the new covenant is forgiveness through the death of Jesus and the acceptance of His sacrificial death for my sins and that I can minister to others and myself in this way. That my strength to overcome sin is from a reliance on God and His strength...my own strictly obeying the law won't cut it. We get our strength from Him. That is what I am to teach others, instead of judging them or having them judge themselves in the way of the law. Get in relationship...it's all about forgiveness and the strength to overcome adversity and sin.