Brennan Manning

[Acheron]

I've recently decided that this author is up there with the other giants of spiritual guidace in my life like Beth Moore, Phillip Yancey and Mike Yaconnelli. His books are stunningly good. And he was also the person who said " The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christans who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable." This was used for the opener of the dc talk song What if I Stumble?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/june/22.42.html

[Proudmommy]

I always wondered who sais that. I always guessed it was Billy Graham, though.

[joy4Him2day]

Some people just can't take the wideness of writers like Yaconelli, Yancey and Manning. If you like them, you will like Rob Bell very much. Rob Bell has two books, but his sermons at MarsHillChurch in Detroit are very thought-provoking and fresh.
You can get them on -line by downloading them from the church website. I recommend them all.

[Caleb]

Actually, I consider Rob Bell a heretic.

[joy4Him2day]

:boxed

[Acheron]

Actually, I consider Rob Bell a heretic.

After reading some of his stuff, I don't trust him either. Manning and Yancey make no apologies for sin, but do recognize the grace that we are to show others and that is something that has been challenging me recently. Manning also shows how Christ's love for us is the most tenacious thing in the universe.

Good video on Manning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQi_IDV2bgM&feature=related

[Cindybobindy]

I urge you to please read the following link/articles by Lighthouse Trails Research.


Manning's View of the Bible
"I am deeply distressed by what I only can call in our Christian culture the idolatry of the Scriptures. For many Christians, the Bible is not a pointer to God but God himself. In a word—bibliolatry. God cannot be confined within the covers of a leather-bound book. I develop a nasty rash around people who speak as if mere scrutiny of its pages will reveal precisely how God thinks and precisely what God wants."—Brennan Manning, Signature of Jesus, pp. 188-189



http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/manningexcerptrayone.htm



http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/manning.htm

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/manning.htm

[Acheron]

I have'nt read those books of his, only The Ragamuffin Gospel and Ruthless Trust and have found nothing questionable in either of these. I would wholeheartedly agree with what he states in the two books I have read. I'll have to read the two quoted before I make a judgement, as I am skeptical of websites stating a teacher is false unless they have solid proof they are heretical and remain that way (WOF Movement, for example). Regarding his quote, I would submit that he is stating he dislikes it when individuals reduce God to being only what is revealed in Scripture and not in other's lives as well. I also think that he is saying that merely examining the pages of the Bible will reveal what God wants is what distresses him, and not actively seeking God, but relying only on Scripture and not others actions as well.

http://www.lifetoday.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6143&news_iv_ctrl=1061

[Acheron]

Some people just can't take the wideness of writers like Yaconelli, Yancey and Manning.

That's what I found to be so amazing about their books, that God can love us even when we are failing so badly.

[JerRockson]

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch....erptrayone.htm

I'm not sure if I could trust a source like this yet.

[joy4Him2day]

anning's View of the Bible
"I am deeply distressed by what I only can call in our Christian culture the idolatry of the Scriptures. For many Christians, the Bible is not a pointer to God but God himself. In a word—bibliolatry. God cannot be confined within the covers of a leather-bound book. I develop a nasty rash around people who speak as if mere scrutiny of its pages will reveal precisely how God thinks and precisely what God wants."—Brennan Manning, Signature of Jesus, pp. 188-189


This is NOT Mannings view of the Bible, this is Mannings view of Christian's imbalance, I agree with Manning whole-heartedly, some people worship their BIBLE, not the One who wrote it, and it shows when they stand on the Word while demonstrating unGodly behaviour to prove it.

A lot of these guys are misunderstood because they are so wrenching in their discussions---we need someone to shake us up sometimes, even for us to say, HUH? Otherwise, we fall asleep. Sometimes what these guys say make us react, and that is a good thing.

I know lots of people who are Bible-worshippers and they do not demonstrate much love toward each other.

[janh7]

Some people just can't take the wideness of writers like Yaconelli, Yancey and Manning. If you like them, you will like Rob Bell very much. Rob Bell has two books, but his sermons at MarsHillChurch in Detroit are very thought-provoking and fresh.
You can get them on -line by downloading them from the church website. I recommend them all.

Pride.

Manning and other Emergent Movement writers such as McLaren, Foster, Bell, are appealing because they take away unsavory subjects such as sin, repentence, and hell. They can do this if they play down the importance of the WORD of God in the lives of the Christian. This is an age old ploy of satan to trick man into believing he doesn't have to be repentent.

[joy4Him2day]

I have read enough Manning and listened to enough Bell to know that their humble spirit knows about repentance, and would never, ever, water down the like of it. Sometimes, other people write opinions and they get passed around to other people who never search out the information themselves, they just take someone else's summary and believe it.

Honestly, you cannot read or listen to these guys without knowing they are the real deal. If they err in some theology, they do, but they definitely are seeking God and all that means for you and me. Do I sometimes flinch, raise my eyebrows, say: "can a follower of Jesus say that?", but, I go on, because they have enough of truth to make me want to know more, and follow harder, and not be afraid of a little "wild fire" to at least experience "some fire".

[Acheron]

I agree regarding Manning. He does speak of sin and repentance as he has struggled with alcoholism after he was saved and this has cost him much. He recognizes that God loves him still and tries to share this with others.

[janh7]

Emergent Movement=Apostasy
Do not be deceived

[Gods Trombone]

I urge you to please read the following link/articles by Lighthouse Trails Research.


Manning's View of the Bible
"I am deeply distressed by what I only can call in our Christian culture the idolatry of the Scriptures. For many Christians, the Bible is not a pointer to God but God himself. In a word—bibliolatry. God cannot be confined within the covers of a leather-bound book. I develop a nasty rash around people who speak as if mere scrutiny of its pages will reveal precisely how God thinks and precisely what God wants."—Brennan Manning, Signature of Jesus, pp. 188-189

In this world, where the Bible is so widely ignored and misunderstood, I find the quote very offensive.

[CircleSlide]

Stay away from Bell, my dh and I watched some of his video's and read the beginning of his Velvet Elvis book before we could no longer take it. NOT something that I would want to be associated with or ever recommend.

Bell enjoys hearing himself speak and finds himself very important. He is dangerous in his long drawn out monologues which spouts his own warped beliefs. We call him artsy fartsy trying to always look cool and deep but the depth is a false one. Very dangerous.

[Acheron]

Regardless of the others mentioned in this thread (Bell, etc.) I have found nothing that would raise my spiritual hackles that Brennan Manning has said regarding Christ, sin, repentance and salvation. His book Ruthless Trust was quite helpful in helping me trust Christ more than I realized I previously did. Reading his book The Ragamuffin Gospel also helped me realize that, poor and destitute though we are, God's love for us is stunningly tenacious and will not allow for impressing Him with our spiritual exercises and spiritual gymnastics, but is rather something that is unearned and undeserved. I do approve of his admonishment that we love others as they are creations of God and not reduce them to what they have done in their lives.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/decemberweb-only/12-9-21.0.html

[patnmel97]

I've read his "Ragamuffin Gospel" and it speak SO much of GRACE!! It's an awesome read! I never could fathom God loving me SO much and i read that book and i was like wow!

I've heard these statments before about Manning -- all i have to say is most of the time when someone is trying to find somehting bad written or said about someone in the supposed false movement camp or whatever you like to call them, it is not always truth, i believe we need to be beareans ourself; Not get your information from some website that bashes quite a few people from what i can see.. we need to read it in his book first hand or hear him say it (not from some audio tape that can be taken out of context).. We should do this with ALL teachers we listen to our read, etc. For example just b/c someone tells me Charles Stanley is good and sound -- i don't take your word for it, i research it myself by studying his books, tapes, etc. That is what God would have me do.... Just the same as if my preacher interprets the scripture one way and i another -- i don't assume my preacher is right, i study it myself and see how God leads me.

And ask for discernment from God on any teacher before making a judgment call; He will direct us betwen the difference of the false teacher and the true one.. Let's not put God in a box -- He will lead us down the right paths if we let HIM lead us.

This was the case when someone quoted things out of the above book to me a few years earlier -- and i re-read what they were saying he had said; and that was not what he had said at all -- i tried to show her, but her mind was made up from no studying on her own at all, just what someone had quoted him as saying... I don't know the other people you have mentioned above --

If we are going to call a leader/teacher apostate i think we better know first hand what we are talking about -- honestly God says every careless word we utter we will be judged for... I personally wouldn't want to throw that word around as much as i see it thrown around; especially if it's NOT true. I don't think God would be pleased..

Just my 2 cents:wave

[joy4Him2day]

Thanks for your comments Patnmel197.

[Acheron]

I've read his "Ragamuffin Gospel" and it speak SO much of GRACE!! It's an awesome read! I never could fathom God loving me SO much and i read that book and i was like wow!

I've heard these statments before about Manning -- all i have to say is most of the time when someone is trying to find somehting bad written or said about someone in the supposed false movement camp or whatever you like to call them, it is not always truth, i believe we need to be beareans ourself; Not get your information from some website that bashes quite a few people from what i can see.. we need to read it in his book first hand or hear him say it (not from some audio tape that can be taken out of context).. We should do this with ALL teachers we listen to our read, etc. For example just b/c someone tells me Charles Stanley is good and sound -- i don't take your word for it, i research it myself by studying his books, tapes, etc. That is what God would have me do.... Just the same as if my preacher interprets the scripture one way and i another -- i don't assume my preacher is right, i study it myself and see how God leads me.

And ask for discernment from God on any teacher before making a judgment call; He will direct us betwen the difference of the false teacher and the true one.. Let's not put God in a box -- He will lead us down the right paths if we let HIM lead us.

This was the case when someone quoted things out of the above book to me a few years earlier -- and i re-read what they were saying he had said; and that was not what he had said at all -- i tried to show her, but her mind was made up from no studying on her own at all, just what someone had quoted him as saying... I don't know the other people you have mentioned above --

If we are going to call a leader/teacher apostate i think we better know first hand what we are talking about -- honestly God says every careless word we utter we will be judged for... I personally wouldn't want to throw that word around as much as i see it thrown around; especially if it's NOT true. I don't think God would be pleased..

Just my 2 cents:wave

Hear, hear! :thumb

[BHiles]

God himself elevated His word over His own name.

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. Psalms 138:2

Individuals who do not follow the word of God do not diminish the fact that the Word of God is His complete revelation to man. The problem with man is not any way that they worship scripture. The problem is they don't obey it.

But many find the Bible too constraining and rather live by experience. God did not call us to live by experience but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

I tire of the new mantra "putting God in a box" as if that is possible. God developed a structure in which He decided that He would deal with man. He structured the rules. He made the promises and He decided His own box and He put the rules and the revelations about Himself in His Testaments. The problem is that so many today who don't want to "put God in a box" only wish to deviate from what God said about Himself and what He would do. They want to draw outside the lines God said are the lines. I am wholeheartedly against this frame of thought.


Ro 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

[BHiles]

I am sorry but this is not right.
He forsees the future of the church to be a small community of mystics who have experience Christ and based on that experience they will reveal what He wants.


This is some of the worst garbage I have heard. I still cannot find him teaching the gospel. I find him teaching things that are not the gospel. I find him teaching about the question that Christ will ask all men when they get to heaven is if they believed that Jesus truly loved them (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQi_IDV2bgM). And if they say yes then they are a true believer. I am sorry again but if you believe that will get you to heaven you will split hell wide open.

So many want to rebel against what tradionally is taught by sinful men in traditional religion that they will glam on to anything that rebels against it with them.

Using all the feel good psycho babble as to what blocks God from man he never mentions sin in the list mixing in enough of the feel good truth of the gospel with a bit of class envy and anti-religion for good measure it almost feels right. But these are the itching ear philosophers preaching to a rebellious generation and are not of God. Preaching God is a God of love without preaching God is a God of justice is not preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ at all. From what then are you saved from.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQsauf0s4uQ

[joy4Him2day]

I think constantly comparing theology notes sometimes misses the point that some people still have something to say worth noting--and though they may miss some of "our understanding" as it is, doesn't necessarily negate everything they have to say.
For myself, I have been challenged and encouraged by what Manning has written many times. I may find that I don't agree across the board with his understandings or beliefs, but I can still hear what he has to say---he may teach me something anyway.
We differ on this, I guess.

[janh7]

I am sorry but this is not right.
He forsees the future of the church to be a small community of mystics who have experience Christ and based on that experience they will reveal what He wants.


This is some of the worst garbage I have heard. I still cannot find him teaching the gospel. I find him teaching things that are not the gospel. I find him teaching about the question that Christ will ask all men when they get to heaven is if they believed that Jesus truly loved them (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQi_IDV2bgM). And if they say yes then they are a true believer. I am sorry again but if you believe that will get you to heaven you will split hell wide open.

So many want to rebel against what tradionally is taught by sinful men in traditional religion that they will glam on to anything that rebels against it with them.

Using all the feel good psycho babble as to what blocks God from man he never mentions sin in the list mixing in enough of the feel good truth of the gospel with a bit of class envy and anti-religion for good measure it almost feels right. But these are the itching ear philosophers preaching to a rebellious generation and are not of God. Preaching God is a God of love without preaching God is a God of justice is not preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ at all. From what then are you saved from.

You speak the truth. We humans sure don't like hearing it do we? It doesn't always make us "feel" good. Writers like Manning, McLaren, Foster, etc. tell us that we are just fine like we are. They say we don't need to change, they say the church needs to change and while we're at it, let's get rid of the authority of God's Word. Then we won't be convicted, repentent; we won't know the truth about how thing eventually end, and certainly we are wrong about hell, why would there be a hell?

Don't trust your feelings. Trust God's WORD. Don't follow after these men, they are leading you astray. It is clear. Spend your time reading the Bible instead of these books, then you will know the truth.

[patnmel97]

WHERE does Manning say this??? You'll have to quote from the book "The Ragamuffin Gospel" as it's the only one of his I've read..

I have said nothing here that says i don't hold God's Word as the ABSOLUTE authority in my life and ALL other Christians if they are truly wanting to seek and obey and trust God. Who's following after these men???

Shoot, were on a message board -- and people say things all the time that makes us go hmmm never quite thought of it like that.. and it's worth noting and remembering, right?!! How is one man's interpretation of grace now regarded as all the things you quoted above - I don't see how GRACE -- which is what this book is all about "God's Grace" is away from what God talks about in the Bible... :confused

AGAIN, where does this book say all the things you have attributed to the author....

Thanks and blessings,
Mel-

[patnmel97]

I think constantly comparing theology notes sometimes misses the point that some people still have something to say worth noting--and though they may miss some of "our understanding" as it is, doesn't necessarily negate everything they have to say.
For myself, I have been challenged and encouraged by what Manning has written many times. I may find that I don't agree across the board with his understandings or beliefs, but I can still hear what he has to say---he may teach me something anyway.
We differ on this, I guess.

Well said. :) And this is the bonus of the Holy Spirit -- IF someone strays off the course, or just doesn't have that particular scripture right in my opinion i'm free to disagree with him and ignore that -- we know b/c God leads us -- if they completely do a 180 and say pull a Benny Hinn -- we know from God to RUN from that teacher.. We will never agree with anyone 100%, nor will ANY of us ever have it ALL figured out.. And the minute we think we do; we now have a pride and lying problem..

I have noticed in my walk that some scriptures that i thought meant one thing; as i have grown have changed meaning for me as i've matured... It's the LIVING, breathing Word of God.. That's what makes this book the BEST book in the whole wide world... I may have at one time thought one thing about (example:) the tithe -- as my understanding and knowledge of this topic becomes more mature; several years later i will read and study again and come to a completely different conclusion. Shoot sometimes i have found i was spot on wrong about my interpretion of a scripture and years later; realize it and go oh wow i never caught that.

Blessings,
Mel

[patnmel97]

Pride.

Manning and other Emergent Movement writers such as McLaren, Foster, Bell, are appealing because they take away unsavory subjects such as sin, repentence, and hell. They can do this if they play down the importance of the WORD of God in the lives of the Christian. This is an age old ploy of satan to trick man into believing he doesn't have to be repentent.

B/c i like what Manning writes in said book i quoted in above post that means i don't hold the Bible in the highest regard.. :confused I agree that sin, repentance and hell -- are VERY real and VERY important for us to know about ourselves and repentance is essential to our relationship wtih God. I don't see where this particular book has contradicted that.

How can i a Bible believing, Jesus loving lady, i strive to be obedient, prays and asks for forgiveness, prays to be like Jesus and to show my Jesus in the world..Strive to be the fruits of the Spirt; Love like 1 Corinthians 12; AND most importantly i promised to LOVE Him with my whole heart.. (of course i fall short i am a sinful being)

Do anything but read His Word, pray to my Father and be in constant relationship with Him.

Be reading something TOTALLY different then what you are and still be a Christian -- i mean isn't what you're saying really -- is that if i read Manning or anyone else someone doesn't agree with then i must be emergent, and appealing to tickling ears.. :(

Could you please clarify? Thanks!
Mel

[BHiles]

AGAIN, where does this book say all the things you have attributed to the author....


I did the research and posted the links. These are words from his own lips while I am watching him say it from his own lips.

I hesitate to really even go after the things that are wrong that he is a part of and says and leave it and these few things because I think this is enugh already to mark and avoid him. It is apparent to Joy also that there are problems even though she chooses to take the good and throw out the bad I think that the Bible warns us not to. These are not minor differences. They are fundamental.

[joy4Him2day]

Thanks Brent, for being so kind to me about this---I am not trying to be contrary, and I realize that some people cannot do what I do, because they have to follow all or nothing.....but, really, I am not "following" Manning, so, I don't consider him "leading" me astray. I just think that he has worthy points, whether his theology is unbalanced, imisunderstood, or just plain wrong in some areas.

I have found that for years, I myself, have followed some beliefs that turned out to be "folk theology", and I don't think it discounts my christian influence, although some people could have negated anything I said, because I was stuck on some wrong belief....and that is what I am saying about Manning---though we disagree on some things, I still consider him a worthy "follower" of Jesus. I think his heart tells it, and I keep hearing Jesus say to his disciples when they brought up someone not believing how they did, "What is that to Thee? Follow me.", and so, that is the ultimate, isn't it?

So, couldn't we say about some people, you know, they have a real heart for Jesus, and have some really valid points, but be careful to not follow them blindly, or throw everything into what they say, because, here, in this area, they are still in the dark......or still not enlightened.

That is all I am saying. I think we throw people to the wolves without considering their hearts, and considering that there is a lot of forest to get through sometimes when they are learning the Truth.