Women asking questions and bible studies?

[Sajarie]

In the bible Paul says something to effect of women not being allowed to speak in church and that they must ask their husbands to clarify what is said in church. What does a woman do if she's divorced when biblically he's still her husband but he is not available to her and never really was in the first place such as an unbeliever or a rejecter of the gospel?

What do women who are unmarried do if they are confused?

And biblically speaking, are women allowed to have their own bible study groups?

[Sajarie]

As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. 1 Corinthians 14 33-35 NIV

This is what I'm referring to about that. There was another one somewhere where Paul is talking about Eve bringing man to sin, but don't recall where that was.

My ex called everything about the bible an 'interpretation' and I don't think he really even believed.

[PlentyGroovy]

The pastor at my church explained it this way, you have to put scripture with what was going on at the time. To have a verse like this, it may of been a case of women piping up and asking lots of questions, possibly interrupting the point of the service. What the verse could possibly be attempting to do was to make the services more organized and more focused on God. Imagine if we were in church and I was jumping up every five minutes to ask a question, you might get a little annoyed with me. And later tell me, you know, maybe you should save up your questions for later so you don't disrupt the service.

When I was first saved, I wasn't married. I asked A LOT of questions here. To my Christian friends, both male and female, too. And I did talk to counselors at church about my questions. I did later join a women's bible study on 2nd Peter and learned so much, I recommend these types of studies.

[humbleone]

Sajarie,

This is a complicated issue.... well I should say it is an area where a lot of disagreements abound. Might I suggest to you, seeking God privately in prayer on this? There is just sooo much out there on this topic and much of it false (IMO) and destructive to women....

I have answers to your questions but I dont have Scriptures handy at the moment. Please seek Him for yourself and in the meantime, do not be so afraid of doing something wrong. God looks at the heart and intentions. He knows u arent out seeking to ursurp Him or something. By all means, I encourage you to get involved with a Bible study if u possibly can but more than that, I encourage u to find a Holy Spirit filled church and ATTEND! Please pray and seek Him to lead you to one. THey are indeed more difficult to find in this day and age, for sure.

Peace to you,

humbleone

[Wildcat81]

I actually wrote a blog post a while back on this very subject. You can find it here (http://the-dawn-treader.blogspot.com/2006/09/context-context-context.html).

Basically, Paul isn't saying that women are never allowed to open their mouths in church. What is likely the case in Corinth was that there were women interrupting the service by asking questions when it wasn't appropriate (remember that in context that chapter was about proper order and decorum during worship).

[kittykatjg]

Wildcat, very nice blog on that. I can imagine the church at Corinth as you described, and with lots of women leaning over to their husband or the person next to them saying "what did he say?" or "what did he mean by that?", etc, etc, etc. I've seen it all too often in any kind of teaching situation (church, bible study, lecture, etc) even today! Asking the congregation to make sure the women kept such questions for later (for their husband as the spiritual head of the family... I'm thinking if there was no husband it would most likely be her father's responsibility?) in order to avoid interrupting others' concentration makes perfect sense in that context.

[Literalist-Luke]

I actually wrote a blog post a while back on this very subject. You can find it here (http://the-dawn-treader.blogspot.com/2006/09/context-context-context.html).

Basically, Paul isn't saying that women are never allowed to open their mouths in church. What is likely the case in Corinth was that there were women interrupting the service by asking questions when it wasn't appropriate (remember that in context that chapter was about proper order and decorum during worship).Excellent blog post, Wildcat81. :thumb Thanks for sharing it.

[LooC]

In our Southern Baptist Church, there are twice as many women teachers than men. We're a small church, around 60 on Sunday mornings.

Several years ago I taught the 4th-6th grade class. There were 2 little girls who would occassionally come & they were very disruptive. To the point where I'd ask my husband to come sit in with the class when they were there. My husband would just sit there, didn't haven't to verbally correct any of the kids, and the class would go off without a hitch. That's when I began to wonder if this verse should be taken literally or not.

There are enough men in our church to step up to the plate, if you will. Only a few will take any kind of leadership role. Pastor, 5 deacons & 2 teachers. And these guys are the ones who serve on the various committees as well.

IMHO, just from my brief teaching experience at church, and from raising our 2 children, it seems to me that God DOES give a greater (stronger) authority to men. Those times that my husband sat in on my class proved it to me - without needing to over analyze it. I can only imagine what it would be like if more men served in my church than women. I think it would be in accordance with God's Word.

I can think of a handful of women who serve quietly, modestly, humbly in the 'background', and I tend to look more towards them for instruction. I'm editor of our newsletter & I'd gladly hand the responsibility over to a man. I give men, women, couples, or children, the opportunity to share their testimonies in the newsletter. I also write a Prophecy Watch column. I'd love for a man to step up and take charge of the Prophecy articles. (I'd also be happy if our members would even show a strong interest in prophecy....)

BTW, I've heard men ask silly questions over the years, too. Or even try to raise just as many 'stinks' as women have done. We're neck-in-neck on that one. No winners (whiners?) there! :D:

And then there's...

1 TIMOTHY 2
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array...

1) Do some women wear too much jewlery in church? Do some women tend to 'flaunt their wealth' with expensive clothing? (Ah, pride rears its ugly head in worship services...)

I CORINTHIANS 11: 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his heard, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

2) Should the women in church cover their heads out of respect when entering the sanctuary? Are we too vain re: our appearance? Or should we not encourage bald women in our church? (:D:) We do notice other women's hair, shoes, and jewlery! (LOL!) :D:

3) To the women: would your attitude be more humble if you covered your head with a scarf? Or too distracting? A legitimate outward display of a submissive attitude? (don't the women in Russian Orthodox Churches cover their heads when worshipping? (:headstratch) I've seen pics somewhere...and I've never noticed their shoes....LOL!)

Am I asking silly :female questions? At least I'm not in church at the moment! :frazzled

[GloryBound]

To address your second question re can women have their own Bible Study groups, here is a reference:

Titus 2:3-5
3 the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things — 4 that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.
NKJV

And if you read the whole passage in Titus, Paul tells him to teach the older men, younger men, older women, and bond servants. The older women are to teach the younger women.

So not only can women have their own studies, but the older women are SUPPOSED to teach the younger women. Too many pastors only quote the scriptures giving men "authority" and ignore this one. Then they get too involved with the younger women and get into trouble. Or the women's needs aren't met and THEY get into trouble.

[GloryBound]

Oh, and I've been to a real synagogue in Israel. I don't know if the early church was set up similarly, but the men sit in the main auditorium, and the women stand behind a screen off to the side and the back. I really didn't feel like a part of the service at all, and it was really tempting to just start talking about whatever.

Like I said, we don't know what their setup was, but if it was like that, the women talking to their husbands would have been really really disruptive!!!

[HSmomto4]

In our Southern Baptist Church, there are twice as many women teachers than men. We're a small church, around 60 on Sunday mornings.

Several years ago I taught the 4th-6th grade class. There were 2 little girls who would occassionally come & they were very disruptive. To the point where I'd ask my husband to come sit in with the class when they were there. My husband would just sit there, didn't haven't to verbally correct any of the kids, and the class would go off without a hitch. That's when I began to wonder if this verse should be taken literally or not.

There are enough men in our church to step up to the plate, if you will. Only a few will take any kind of leadership role. Pastor, 5 deacons & 2 teachers. And these guys are the ones who serve on the various committees as well.

IMHO, just from my brief teaching experience at church, and from raising our 2 children, it seems to me that God DOES give a greater (stronger) authority to men. Those times that my husband sat in on my class proved it to me - without needing to over analyze it. I can only imagine what it would be like if more men served in my church than women. I think it would be in accordance with God's Word.

I can think of a handful of women who serve quietly, modestly, humbly in the 'background', and I tend to look more towards them for instruction. I'm editor of our newsletter & I'd gladly hand the responsibility over to a man. I give men, women, couples, or children, the opportunity to share their testimonies in the newsletter. I also write a Prophecy Watch column. I'd love for a man to step up and take charge of the Prophecy articles. (I'd also be happy if our members would even show a strong interest in prophecy....)

BTW, I've heard men ask silly questions over the years, too. Or even try to raise just as many 'stinks' as women have done. We're neck-in-neck on that one. No winners (whiners?) there! :D:

And then there's...

1 TIMOTHY 2
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array...

1) Do some women wear too much jewlery in church? Do some women tend to 'flaunt their wealth' with expensive clothing? (Ah, pride rears its ugly head in worship services...)

I CORINTHIANS 11: 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his heard, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

2) Should the women in church cover their heads out of respect when entering the sanctuary? Are we too vain re: our appearance? Or should we not encourage bald women in our church? (:D:) We do notice other women's hair, shoes, and jewlery! (LOL!) :D:

3) To the women: would your attitude be more humble if you covered your head with a scarf? Or too distracting? A legitimate outward display of a submissive attitude? (don't the women in Russian Orthodox Churches cover their heads when worshipping? (:headstratch) I've seen pics somewhere...and I've never noticed their shoes....LOL!)

Am I asking silly :female questions? At least I'm not in church at the moment! :frazzled

Not silly at all! I've been praying about the head covering thing for a long time now and do feel we should when praying and teaching. I also am a SB so this is not something I was taught in church. I think God finally showed this to me by allowing me to understand the first part about men more than women. If the hair was the covering then men should be bald because it says for them not to be covered. I don't think we always have to be covered, but in time of teaching and praying I do.

[Knight of Chris]

Wildcat, very nice blog on that. I can imagine the church at Corinth as you described, and with lots of women leaning over to their husband or the person next to them saying "what did he say?" or "what did he mean by that?", etc, etc, etc. I've seen it all too often in any kind of teaching situation (church, bible study, lecture, etc) even today! Asking the congregation to make sure the women kept such questions for later (for their husband as the spiritual head of the family... I'm thinking if there was no husband it would most likely be her father's responsibility?) in order to avoid interrupting others' concentration makes perfect sense in that context.


Men and Women did not sit together or next to each other back then, but on different sides of the room. So if a woman was asking a question of her husband, she had to shout across the room, and thereby disrupt the service. So she was instructed to ask questions at home instead.

[Akeo]

I believe woman make awesome teachers of the word. But let me ask this, what do you all think of woman Preachers? I confess before you all, I'm uncomfortable with them, I mean I just get a feeling in my spirit that it's just not right. And there has been many times I have mentioned this among others and I'd be accused of being a chauvinist which I'm not at all. Thoughts? And ladies don't hate me because of this, it's just my very humble opinion. :humble :oh :tape

[Literalist-Luke]

I believe woman make awesome teachers of the word. But let me ask this, what do you all think of woman Preachers? I confess before you all, I'm uncomfortable with them, I mean I just get a feeling in my spirit that it's just not right. And there has been many times I have mentioned this among others and I'd be accused of being a chauvinist which I'm not at all. Thoughts? And ladies don't hate me because of this, it's just my very humble opinion. :humble :oh :tapeOh, you're just a chauvinistic, narrow-minded, fundamentalist, exclusionary, backwards-thinking, sexist pig. :D:

[AnyDayNow]

In the bible Paul says something to effect of women not being allowed to speak in church and that they must ask their husbands to clarify what is said in church. What does a woman do if she's divorced when biblically he's still her husband but he is not available to her and never really was in the first place such as an unbeliever or a rejecter of the gospel?

What do women who are unmarried do if they are confused?

And biblically speaking, are women allowed to have their own bible study groups?

The question that should have been asked of Paul was whether "prophetesses" or "deaconesses" should keep silent. The passage in 1 Corinthians 14 was in the context of the misuse of assembly time and was directed toward perhaps the most spiritually "inept" local assembly in the entire history of the Church.

Paul's statement concerning women and authority was also, IMO, to be taken in the context of a local assembly. If men were present, then they were to do the teaching and not women. Years ago, I served as a deacon in a small Baptist church and we were approached by a married woman in the church who wanted to start a Bible Study for women using the church's facilities and wanted "permission" from us to do it. When I was "polled", I said I didn't see that she needed our permission (except for the facilities part) because she wouldn't be teaching men. The other two deacons and the pastor were also in agreement.

Different situations may call for a different opinion, but generally speaking, Women asking questions in the local assembly is not wrong, and I would never object to women leading other women in Bible Study, anywhere at anytime. Unless, of course, it was creating problems within the local assembly.

[AnyDayNow]

...There are enough men in our church to step up to the plate, if you will. Only a few will take any kind of leadership role. Pastor, 5 deacons & 2 teachers. And these guys are the ones who serve on the various committees as well...

A sad commentary that has unfortunately been too true in many small churches the past 25 years. :sad

[CaiperLane]

In our Southern Baptist Church, there are twice as many women teachers than men. We're a small church, around 60 on Sunday mornings.

Several years ago I taught the 4th-6th grade class. There were 2 little girls who would occassionally come & they were very disruptive. To the point where I'd ask my husband to come sit in with the class when they were there. My husband would just sit there, didn't haven't to verbally correct any of the kids, and the class would go off without a hitch. That's when I began to wonder if this verse should be taken literally or not.

There are enough men in our church to step up to the plate, if you will. Only a few will take any kind of leadership role. Pastor, 5 deacons & 2 teachers. And these guys are the ones who serve on the various committees as well.

IMHO, just from my brief teaching experience at church, and from raising our 2 children, it seems to me that God DOES give a greater (stronger) authority to men. Those times that my husband sat in on my class proved it to me - without needing to over analyze it. I can only imagine what it would be like if more men served in my church than women. I think it would be in accordance with God's Word.

I can think of a handful of women who serve quietly, modestly, humbly in the 'background', and I tend to look more towards them for instruction. I'm editor of our newsletter & I'd gladly hand the responsibility over to a man. I give men, women, couples, or children, the opportunity to share their testimonies in the newsletter. I also write a Prophecy Watch column. I'd love for a man to step up and take charge of the Prophecy articles. (I'd also be happy if our members would even show a strong interest in prophecy....)

BTW, I've heard men ask silly questions over the years, too. Or even try to raise just as many 'stinks' as women have done. We're neck-in-neck on that one. No winners (whiners?) there! :D:

And then there's...

1 TIMOTHY 2
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array...

1) Do some women wear too much jewlery in church? Do some women tend to 'flaunt their wealth' with expensive clothing? (Ah, pride rears its ugly head in worship services...)

I CORINTHIANS 11: 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his heard, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

2) Should the women in church cover their heads out of respect when entering the sanctuary? Are we too vain re: our appearance? Or should we not encourage bald women in our church? (:D:) We do notice other women's hair, shoes, and jewlery! (LOL!) :D:

3) To the women: would your attitude be more humble if you covered your head with a scarf? Or too distracting? A legitimate outward display of a submissive attitude? (don't the women in Russian Orthodox Churches cover their heads when worshipping? (:headstratch) I've seen pics somewhere...and I've never noticed their shoes....LOL!)

Am I asking silly :female questions? At least I'm not in church at the moment! :frazzled

The head covering was specifically speaking of the women in Corinth. See the pagan temple prostitutes would shave their heads identifying them as pagan prostitutes. When they converted to Christianity they needed to disassociate themselves from their former lives. So hence the head covering. To have a shaven head was a sign of disgrace and scorn because society knew why these women appeared that way. So having hair and/or a head covering set these women apart from their old pagan life.

Sometimes in scripture we need to keep these stories in the context that they were written.

Women do not need to wear something on their heads because of what Paul was telling the church at Corinth. Not everything applies for today.

What you CAN take away from that though is to set yourself apart from the world. I've seen women and teen girls dressing like Britney Spears to go to church. Short skirts. tummy baring shirts etc... When you belong to Christ you set yourself apart from the pagan/secular world.

[Kung Pao Smurf]

IIRC, part of the reason this was 'bad' at the time was because there were a lot of fledgling cults at the time, and what better place to try to gain a foothold in the community than at a widow's house?

So they'd sort of stop at the widows' houses under the guise of 'taking care' of them and in the meantime indoctrinate them with the cultic materials. When these same widows went to church - which was separated by gender, as someone mentioned - the widows would then teach the younger ones, ask questions, etc.

[HSmomto4]

The head covering was specifically speaking of the women in Corinth. See the pagan temple prostitutes would shave their heads identifying them as pagan prostitutes. When they converted to Christianity they needed to disassociate themselves from their former lives. So hence the head covering. To have a shaven head was a sign of disgrace and scorn because society knew why these women appeared that way. So having hair and/or a head covering set these women apart from their old pagan life.

Sometimes in scripture we need to keep these stories in the context that they were written.

Women do not need to wear something on their heads because of what Paul was telling the church at Corinth. Not everything applies for today.

What you CAN take away from that though is to set yourself apart from the world. I've seen women and teen girls dressing like Britney Spears to go to church. Short skirts. tummy baring shirts etc... When you belong to Christ you set yourself apart from the pagan/secular world.

Why is it then we take what he says about communion word for word and it falls in the exact same paragraph? It was common practice for women to cover their heads while praying in worship up till about 100 years ago (even though there were areas that still covered their heads durring worship till about 50 years ago-my mother and aunts always wore hats to church to cover their heads durring church and that was at a southern baptist church). And you know even today when a man removes his hat to pray, that IS because of that verse.

[CaiperLane]

Why is it then we take what he says about communion word for word and it falls in the exact same paragraph? It was common practice for women to cover their heads while praying in worship up till about 100 years ago (even though there were areas that still covered their heads durring worship till about 50 years ago-my mother and aunts always wore hats to church to cover their heads durring church and that was at a southern baptist church). And you know even today when a man removes his hat to pray, that IS because of that verse.

Just because something is tradition doesn't make it scriptural. Paul was speaking of a certain situation. Theologians and Biblical scholars know this.

This is also legalism. People take things from the Bible either out of context or not understanding it's original intent. Also society was more formal decades ago. Not just in church but in secular society. My grandmother got dressed up to go to town so she could do her shopping.

Paul was trying to teach the new church who had just come out of a pagan society how to run their worship, Corinth had specific issues concerning the problems there. Unique problems that we as a modern church don't really experience.

The head covering was a specific situation. Just because communion is mentioned doesn't mean that it validates the specific instructions for that particular situation in Corinth. Because Christ is the one that commanded communion at The Last Supper.

Again Paul was assisting the new churches in what was expected and helping to transition those people from pagans to followers of Christ.