Am I Being Selfish?

[Enlightenment]

My family has been attending a church in our area for about the last six years. We are not members. In the past my wife would volunteer for the nursery or the toddler room during the church services. I commend her for helping out.

But lately the director of the children's ministry has been calling and asking my wife to "volunteer" in these areas...about twice a month. This means that my two boys, ages 7 and 10 and me attend church services without my wife about 40% - 50% of the time.

I enjoy worshipping as a family--singing the hymns, praying together, and discussing the sermon afterward. My family doesn't get this opportunity whenever my wife works in the children's area. Since we're not members, I don't think it is fair that my wife should be asked to "volunteer" twice a month.

Am I being selfish to want to worship as a family more often than twice a month?

[SapphireGrl]

Being "official" members of the church has nothing to do with being active and serviceable members of the body of Christ. :nod

You have attended the church for 6 years. You are obviously being spiritually fed there, official member or not. So why is it unfair just because her name isn't on the official membership list?

Also, I don't think you're selfish for wanting to worship together as a family; in fact, I commend it. Does your wife enjoy the volunteer work in the nursery? Is it something she actually wants to do? If so, I think it's important to remember that you can worship together as a family more than once a week on Sundays. :nod

[carmen]

If twice a month is too frequent for you to be comfortable with, then ask your wife to tell the director she will serve once a month but she wants the other three Sundays to worship with family.

As far as "membership," though, I'm not sure that matters. You and your family are being served by the body there; I think it's appropriate to serve them as well by sharing the load :nod. (I say that not to condemn but just to point out that we are all called to serve each other :hug)

I'm curious, though...no pressure to answer but I have to ask :laugh....how come you've attended there for so long but haven't "officially" joined?

[Enlightenment]

I'm curious, though...no pressure to answer but I have to ask :laugh....how come you've attended there for so long but haven't "officially" joined?

It's a Baptist church and my wife hasn't been baptized.

[watchman]

It's a Baptist church and my wife hasn't been baptized.


AND THEY LET HER NEAR THE CHILDREN!!!!:scared

Just kidding....

Couple of things, although not direct answers to your question.

Can you serve with her in the nursery?
Is there any audio or TV feed of the sermon to the nursery?
If not, can it be done by member "sweat equity" to run audio or video to the nursery?

[Christine]

AND THEY LET HER NEAR THE CHILDREN!!!!:scared
:pound

[watchman]

:gossip (i just couldn't let that one get by...)

[Enlightenment]

AND THEY LET HER NEAR THE CHILDREN!!!!:scared

Just kidding....

:laugh

Couple of things, although not direct answers to your question.

Can you serve with her in the nursery?
Is there any audio or TV feed of the sermon to the nursery?
If not, can it be done by member "sweat equity" to run audio or video to the nursery?

I can't serve with her in the nursery or toddler's room because then our two boys, ages 7 and 10 will be by themselves in the service.

There is no audio or video feed in these rooms. I don't know why there couldn't be, but again, as a non-member I feel out of place suggesting something like running multi-media into the children's rooms.

[watchman]

:laugh



I can't serve with her in the nursery or toddler's room because then our two boys, ages 7 and 10 will be by themselves in the service.

There is no audio or video feed in these rooms. I don't know why there couldn't be, but again, as a non-member I feel out of place suggesting something like running multi-media into the children's rooms.


I understand.

If this is too personal, PM me, if you like.
Are you considering becoming members of this church?

Six years is a long time, and you may be seen as members by many people, even though you are not officially. (in as-much as asking you to serve)

If they are asking your wife to serve, then your asking about the multi-media should not be out of line. (imo)

Is the amount of time balanced with others who have children? Or does it seem unfair?

Sometimes people will ask a person to volunteer if they are "easy" to ask, as opposed to others who may make excuses.

Path of least resistance.

My wife had the same experience many years ago with a teaching position and other areas of helping. It got to the point of being taken advantage of. She finally made it clear that she wanted to assist but not be a doormat.

[Gracie]

I volunteered in the nursery at our old church; we weren't members but I served where I could because we were attending. What a lot of people did was go to one service as a family, and do the volunteer work at the other. Ours had an early and late service on Sunday mornings. Maybe that would work for you. I don't think you're being selfish at all.

[GloryBound]

It's really hard to get anyone to volunteer to work with children in church. They probably don't intend to take advantage, people just don't want to do it. A church I went to decided to make parents with kids in the nursery to work once a month and you should have heard the complaints. They had the kids all week and it was somebody else's job.

I teach kids Sunday am and pm. I've been absent maybe two Sundays in over five years. They couldn't find a sub, just put the kids with another class. I found my own sub for next week when I'm going to the ladies retreat- a teenager. If anyone complains I'll push then to take my pm class for three months so I can take the financial class which I really need to take. I had to back out for lack of a substitute.

Also another thing to consider is anyone these days who works with children in church has to have a background check on file. And in my church it doesn't matter who you are or where you came from, you have to have attended THIS church for at least 6 months before they will let you do ANYTHING with the kids.

[Enlightenment]

I understand.

If this is too personal, PM me, if you like.
Are you considering becoming members of this church?

We were going to awhile ago but the Pastor left for another calling and the new guy is a hyper-Calvinist, so I don't know anymore.


Six years is a long time, and you may be seen as members by many people, even though you are not officially. (in as-much as asking you to serve)


It's quite common at this church. Many people that I thought for sure were members, I've since found out are not.

If they are asking your wife to serve, then your asking about the multi-media should not be out of line. (imo)

Agreed, but they are running behind in their budget of late, probably related to not having a Pastor for so long. I have also noticed some "stalwart" members no longer attend.

Is the amount of time balanced with others who have children? Or does it seem unfair?

Seems unfair.



Sometimes people will ask a person to volunteer if they are "easy" to ask, as opposed to others who may make excuses. Path of least resistance.


That is a factor, I'm sure.

My wife had the same experience many years ago with a teaching position and other areas of helping. It got to the point of being taken advantage of. She finally made it clear that she wanted to assist but not be a doormat.

I might have to say something if it continues. Thanks to everyone for listening and for your input.

[watchman]

...

I would say given all this that you pray and put it in G-d's hands.

Over the years, I have seen many congregations grow, shrink and change and various ways.

Much like any living thing, if the conditions change, so does the body.

I am praying that you and your wife find peace, guidence and a nourishing environment, either where you are or somewhere else!

Likewise, I will pray for the best solution.

[birdwoman]

As someone who has to find workers for various jobs, we go back to people who say yes. We don't mean to abuse but it is so hard to find workers that you get desperate. You need to ask your wife to limit the hours to whatever you two agree on and she needs to learn to politlely say no, sorry I can only work x number of Sundays. My family needs me too.For some of us it is hard to say no and there is something about being asked to help that strokes the ego.

[Christine]

As someone who has to find workers for various jobs, we go back to people who say yes. We don't mean to abuse but it is so hard to find workers that you get desperate. You need to ask your wife to limit the hours to whatever you two agree on and she needs to learn to politlely say no, sorry I can only work x number of Sundays. My family needs me too.For some of us it is hard to say no and there is something about being asked to help that strokes the ego.
Very good points here. :clap

Those who volunteer DO seem easier to approach. First line of attempt and all that.

Agree with the others -- get her comfort level (1x/month?) and counter offer her help. It is important that you have family time in service.

[antsinmypants]

Watchman, Birdwoman and Christine! :clap


I agree 100% and no, I don't think it is selfish to ask your wife to sit with you and the kids in services.

I honestly don't understand why more parents do not take that course of action.
I don't feel comfortable asking anyone to miss any services to watch kids, let alone parents not be with their kids learning about G-d and how to properly interact with adults.

But that's my hill'o'beans and I'm stickin' to 'em... someone else may have some different mileage.

[GloryBound]

I agree - draw line. Set a limit. As much as I do in church there is one lady who wants me to add something Sunday afternoon. "It's only one Sunday a month" she says and can't understand that I'm already working every Sunday every month.

Bless her heart.........

[cjones]

With humbleness and respect to all in this thread, I think something has been left out of the discussion that all church attenders forget from time to time - me included.

It's that we should be going to church because we want to worship the God who's given his only begotten Son as a sacrifice for our sins so we would not have to perish in hell, but be with God for eternity in heaven. It's because God has done so much for us that we should have the attitude of going to church to give God praise and glory.

We can forget that it's Satan that still is influencing the world right now, and we can easily get distracted from giving God all of our focus (remember the 1st commandment - "You shall have no other Gods before me.") A re-read of Ephesians 2:1-2 is good scriptural backing for this:

(NIV) "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient."

The bottom line I believe is that church isn't meant for what can I get out of it (although we *do* because of the wonderfulness of God get huge things out of that fellowship... ), it's for what we can give back to God. I think that if we leave church saying something like "man, I really didn't get a whole lot out of church today" then we have missed the point entirely. Jesus set the example to us of being a servant leader - just re-read the foot washing Jesus did in John 13:1-17.

If you want more biblical examples of how we're supposed to view attending church, re-read Acts 2:42-47:

(NIV) "They devoted themselves to the apostles' teachings and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyonw was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. "

Reading that, I don't see anybody who was involved in church because of what they could get out of it.

With love,

-chris

[watchman]

My take was that the OP wanted to be able to have his wife with himself and the family in order to worship together.

I think this is very important as it sets a firm foundation for them and establishes a set pattern of "One family (unified) under G-d". In this age of "I wanna be independent". I believe very strongly to support this.

My recommendation of the piping in AV to the nursery was to next say if that could be done, perhaps he and his boys could assist her and all could still participate in the worship.

I have been to congregations that have AV services, as well as those with large glass walls with sound piped in so that the nursery is still, sort of, in the main sanctuary.

I did not get from the OP or any replies, that they, or anyone, wanted to "get something out of it" but rather desired to come to G-d as a family and worship Him as the family unit He established.

There are real needs to make available the conditions for all people to be able to come together as a community, and that means tasks be shared, but not in a manner that is a burden on a small group.

If I missed something, please let me know as I am not seeing it.

:becky

[antsinmypants]

I'm with watchman. my reply had nothing to do with the "what I can get out of it" mentality, but the mentality of serving within reason and still being taught and still hearing The Word read... especially as a cohesive family unit.

That's very important.

[cjones]

I guess I'm alone in my view of the OP. But that's ok. :D:

-chris

[Gary]

I don't think you're being selfish at all.

At our old church, when we first started to attend, I was asked to lead the children's choir. The only problem was that the only practice time they had was during the service. The kids had choice to either go to Jr. Church or the kid's choir. I was downstairs 3 out of 4 Sundays. I had NO assistant or help in looking after the choir except the pianist who had to leave early to be upstairs for the closing hymns. It lasted four years then I resigned because I was getting no food at all. I wasn't very popular for dropping the kid's choir but in a congregation of close to 200, no one would volunteer to help out even a couple of times of month so I could hear the message, and worship with my family.

Anyway, I don't blame you at all.

[watchman]

I guess I'm alone in my view of the OP. But that's ok. :D:

-chris

It's OK. But would you toss us a bone and show us where all the rest of us have missed the view from your position.

Just so we understand. As it is I am :confused.

Thanks.
:becky

[cjones]

Ok Watchman... per your request, here goes:

When I first started purposely attending church, it's safe to say I was me-focused, and not God-focused.

I gave my life to Christ as best as I could understand it (which I ponder sometimes was I saved when I think I was saved... but that's not important given that I'm POSITIVE I'm saved now). I went to church, soaked in the fellowship, praise music, and sermons. But for a time I was thinking more of "what am I getting out of going to church?", when really i should have been thinking "what praise and glory can I give to God today?".

That shift started happening when I finally realized that it truly is all about God and not about me. When I come to church on Sundays, I'm excited and look forward to it. I spend some 4-5 hours there every Sunday (not including time spent on church stuff through out the week, which is a lot because I'm very plugged in to my church) and I *look foward* to spending those hours.

That's a mentality that I didn't have in the beginning. I wish somebody would have pointed that out to me earlier, since I think I might have grown faster if it had been.

Given all that, I just think that since God is supposed to be our #1 priority because of the 1st of the 10 commandments ((Exodus 20:3) and from Jesus' words in Mark 12:30 - "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and witl all your strength." If I'm coming to church and focusing on my needs, I'm not abiding by those two commandments in scripture. I believe that realization is one that becomes clearer with more Christian maturity.

Please don't anybody take that last sentence as name calling.... but I can't really give an explanation to my perspective without that as a summary.

Summing up, the question from the OP on "Am I being selfish?" on wanting to worship as a family more than twice a month.... based on all my words above I would say YES. It's not about what I can get out of it (in this example that would be sitting with the family), but what am I giving to God.

Hope that helps everybody understand my perspective better (and know that I am not trying to play the better Christian game by any means at all).

With love,

-chris

[gentlefriend]

[QUOTE=GloryBound;4022665]. A church I went to decided to make parents with kids in the nursery to work once a month and you should have heard the complaints. They had the kids all week and it was somebody else's job.
QUOTE]


Church is not a babysitting service. My church asks first for volunteers, but they only allow their volunteers to miss one week worth of service a month. As stated from others...they believe it is important for their parishioners to be fed. I am sure there is more than enough parents to help out so the others can be in service 3 out of the 4 weeks. I do not think it is one bit selfish of you to want your wife to be with you during service. And I think your church needs to set schedules with the other parents as to when they can serve...

[watchman]

Ok Watchman... per your request, here goes:

When I first started purposely attending church, it's safe to say I was me-focused, and not God-focused.

I gave my life to Christ as best as I could understand it (which I ponder sometimes was I saved when I think I was saved... but that's not important given that I'm POSITIVE I'm saved now). I went to church, soaked in the fellowship, praise music, and sermons. But for a time I was thinking more of "what am I getting out of going to church?", when really i should have been thinking "what praise and glory can I give to God today?".

That shift started happening when I finally realized that it truly is all about God and not about me. When I come to church on Sundays, I'm excited and look forward to it. I spend some 4-5 hours there every Sunday (not including time spent on church stuff through out the week, which is a lot because I'm very plugged in to my church) and I *look foward* to spending those hours.

That's a mentality that I didn't have in the beginning. I wish somebody would have pointed that out to me earlier, since I think I might have grown faster if it had been.

Given all that, I just think that since God is supposed to be our #1 priority because of the 1st of the 10 commandments ((Exodus 20:3) and from Jesus' words in Mark 12:30 - "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and witl all your strength." If I'm coming to church and focusing on my needs, I'm not abiding by those two commandments in scripture. I believe that realization is one that becomes clearer with more Christian maturity.

Please don't anybody take that last sentence as name calling.... but I can't really give an explanation to my perspective without that as a summary.

Summing up, the question from the OP on "Am I being selfish?" on wanting to worship as a family more than twice a month.... based on all my words above I would say YES. It's not about what I can get out of it (in this example that would be sitting with the family), but what am I giving to God.

Hope that helps everybody understand my perspective better (and know that I am not trying to play the better Christian game by any means at all).

With love,

-chris

I gotcha now.
(IMO I don't belive it was the same dilema as the OP)
Thanks for clarifing, and that is a valid point. :nod

[jesuslover1968]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and go both ways...
in a way, you are being selfish, but don't sweat it cause if we're all honest, we all are....:laugh
In another way, you aren't being selfish, you are wanting to be with your wife and children as a family, and that is commendable in this day and age, believe me...:):
I look at it like this....what the other poster said IS true to an extent, and I applaud his honesty. We are to fellowship together in worship TO God. It isn't for our entertainment. Too many people lose sight of this fact.
If your wife can't hear the sermon in the nursery, or with kids, whichever it may be, then maybe the church shouldn't have the kids back there, huh? Why is it that people in organized religion think that children shouldn't be involved in worship? If we are to set an example for the little ones, there is no better way than to have them grow up being influenced by it, hearing it and taking it all in. They can't do that in a nursery.
I know that this is going to be an unpopular statement, but I'm gonna say it, anyway...Churches that do not allow children in the service are NOT in the will of God. Jesus said that whoever would offend one of these little ones...


well, here is the whole thing...

Matthew 18
1At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

7Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

8Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

9And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

10Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

12How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

24And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.

25But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

26The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

27Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

28But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.

29And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

31So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.

32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

What could be more offensive than denying little kids from learning about God?
So what if they make noise in church, people should be used to that after these thousands of years...what could be more harmful than to deny these little ones an early beginning learning the Word of God? I think people need to wake up and realize that church today is not how it was meant to be. It is something that has been changed to suit man, not to truly worship God.
The way to fix the problem would be to have the children IN the service which would allow the women into the service...and then everyone would be blessed by the learning of the scriptures... ( my 20 cents worth, as it was way more than two...:pound)

[SapphireGrl]

Since we're not members, I don't think it is fair that my wife should be asked to "volunteer" twice a month.
I'm still interested in this factor of the issue. What part of feeling it's not fair to be asked to volunteer because you are not official members is a factor in your feelings about the issue?

[Enlightenment]

I know that this is going to be an unpopular statement, but I'm gonna say it, anyway...Churches that do not allow children in the service are NOT in the will of God. Jesus said that whoever would offend one of these little ones...


well, here is the whole thing...

6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


We're talking about kids age 4 and under. Children aged 5 and up are to attend the service.

The key phrase in verse 6 is "little ones which BELIEVE IN ME. Do you know any babies or toddlers that are capable of really comprehending that?

[Enlightenment]

I'm still interested in this factor of the issue. What part of feeling it's not fair to be asked to volunteer because you are not official members is a factor in your feelings about the issue?

I never said that I thought it was unfair that my wife is being asked to volunteer. I thought it was unfair that she was being asked twice a month. There are members of the church with children that don't serve as volunteers. Presumably being a member entails a higher level of commitment to serving in the church.

[RP73]

-- double post

[RP73]

in the old days, they didn't have anything like that. Children had to sit with the parents.

One of the JW building I have attended had a glass room (so they can see) with speakers. If their children interrupt, they take them to the glass room and listen the leader from there.

[Knight of Chris]

My wife and I used to teach Sunday School once a month at one of our old churches. Then, without consulting anyone, the director of the Sunday School decided that we should teach every week for 3 months instead of once a month all year. The children "needed the continuity" she said.

Well, our schedule required that we be out of town every other weekend, for family and business reasons, so we had to decline, after asking if an exception could be made for us. We were told that we should try to rearrange our affairs to suit the "needs" of the Sunday School. (Not possible then, by the way.) "For the children," don't you know.

Now, I have never responded well to guilt trips. They get my back up and get me very annoyed from the get-go. Maybe I have a rebellious streak. (Maybe?) So we told them that we could not do it their way, and if they wanted us to continue to teach, they would have to be a little more flexible. Otherwise we would have to decline altogether. Since they made it clear it was "my way or the highway," we took the highway up to the regular service, until the church fell apart later for various reasons. (I'm not arrogant enough to think our leaving Sunday School was responsible for that.)

As an aside, that church was a "one man show" as they say, and when the one man proved to have feet of clay, (i.e. that he was human,) the congregation turned on him, and lost their annointing. It truly said that "the Church is the only army that buries it's wounded."

[cjones]

That's a very sad story Knight.... and so *not* how a church should operate. I hope you have since then been able to find a bible-believing church for you and your family.

-chris