Amusing But Sad

[Caleb]

My mom & I have dish network & I was flipping through the channels. Well, for those of you who don't have it, if you click a certain button on your remote, it gives a summary of what's on. Well, out of curiousity, I stopped to watch a minute of Kenneth Copeland's program (word-faith movement). Well, for the summary, it said "Kenneth & Gloria Copeland deliver Bible-based teachings." For a few moments, I was amused at the irony that a WOF preacher was considered "Bible-based", when WOF is one of the most prevelant unbiblical ideas, disguising itself as "Christianity." Well, but then I couldn't get over just how lost people are & that they don't check their Bibles to see just how un-Biblical Copeland's teachings are.

[garvsgrl]

Why do you say WOF is not Bible based? I'm not a big Copeland fan because he talks about money to much so we won't discuss him but I have questions.

Are we not to live our lives based on faith?

Where do you think WOF crosses the line?

Jesus told us to GO and do greater works than the 12, what's wrong with that?

IN HIM

[Paidfor]

Why do you say WOF is not Bible based? I'm not a big Copeland fan because he talks about money to much so we won't discuss him but I have questions.

Are we not to live our lives based on faith?

Where do you think WOF crosses the line?

Jesus told us to GO and do greater works than the 12, what's wrong with that?

IN HIM

One of the central beliefs of WOF is health and wealth, the belief that Christians are promised health and financial prosperity in this life. This is not Bible based at all. Many of the early Christians were desperately poor. All Christians presently alive will get sick and die (should Jesus tarry).

I think a lot of people are damaged by this teaching. They are taught that if they are sick or poor it is because their faith is weak. They spend all of their time and effort trying to get their miracle and eventually become frustrated and abandon the faith. If they were taught the truth from the beginning they could concentrate on the true word of God and receive the true blessings promised by God. These blessings are the fuits of the spirit and do not include health and financial prosperity.

Our citzenship is in heaven. In this life we should strive for those things that will enhance our faith and gain us rewards in heaven. If we have hardship in this life, we will gain perseverance. Perseverance gives us proven character, and proven character hope. And our hope is in eternal life through Christ and not in the temporary things of this world. WOF picks and chooses scripture that support their position. But that position is contrary to the basic truth of scripture.

[4everHis]

You opened a can of worms by mentioning Kenneth copeland and WOF.

I use the Holy Spirit to guide me on who to watch and who not to.

In that regard, I feel very uncomfortable with the Copelands.

[garvsgrl]

I attend a church that I guess you could say it is a WOF church but the Holy Spirit also shows me things that do not sit well so I just don't grasp hold of those things. There is only one church that will be perfected and that's not a WOF church, Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, ect... Jesus Christ is the head of that church and it's many members are scattered all over the world in many different churches. If we listen to the leading of The Holy Spirit we will not go wrong, if we listen to the leading of mere men we will go wrong. Like I said The Holy Spirit quickens my spirit when something is amiss and I put it in that little space in my brain that says delete.

IN HIM

[mikitta]

The difference, garvsgrl, is that WOF insists it's not wrong. That it's word should be taken over the scriptures when there is a discrepancy.

WOF typically has

- disorderly worship (people mooing like cows, barking like dogs etc during their "open worship" where they "speak in tongues" and "utter in the spirit")

- the worship of wealth and health - name it, claim it and frame it

- the implication that if a person is not healthy and wealthy it's because they are sinning.

- the implication that if the person will just give more to the church, ministry, minister etc, they will get that previously denied health and wealth.

I could go on.

As for listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit ... uhm wrong. Listen to the Words of God as shown in the Bible. If you are waiting on a little jiggle at the base of your neck to say you are listening to the Holy Spirit, you could very well be listening to the WRONG spirit. Check EVERYTHING against the Word of God.

If your Church is into the WOF, if I were you I would search for one that is WOG based - you know, Word of God and ONLY Word of God. Our feelings, even our faith is imperfect. That is why God gaves us the Scriptures. So we wouldn't have to trust in those transient things.

God Bless,
mik

[Gracie]

As for listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit ... uhm wrong. Listen to the Words of God as shown in the Bible. If you are waiting on a little jiggle at the base of your neck to say you are listening to the Holy Spirit, you could very well be listening to the WRONG spirit. Check EVERYTHING against the Word of God.
Oh, wow! Excellent explanation.

[garvsgrl]

The difference, garvsgrl, is that WOF insists it's not wrong. That it's word should be taken over the scriptures when there is a discrepancy.

WOF typically has

- disorderly worship (people mooing like cows, barking like dogs etc during their "open worship" where they "speak in tongues" and "utter in the spirit")

- the worship of wealth and health - name it, claim it and frame it

- the implication that if a person is not healthy and wealthy it's because they are sinning.

- the implication that if the person will just give more to the church, ministry, minister etc, they will get that previously denied health and wealth.

I could go on.

As for listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit ... uhm wrong. Listen to the Words of God as shown in the Bible. If you are waiting on a little jiggle at the base of your neck to say you are listening to the Holy Spirit, you could very well be listening to the WRONG spirit. Check EVERYTHING against the Word of God.

If your Church is into the WOF, if I were you I would search for one that is WOG based - you know, Word of God and ONLY Word of God. Our feelings, even our faith is imperfect. That is why God gaves us the Scriptures. So we wouldn't have to trust in those transient things.

God Bless,
mik

We don't bark or moo or do any of that stuff. I don't have the gift of tongues, we give the 10% that scripture teaches and we believe that God will supply all our needs as He has promised (not our wants). We do read the scriptures and check. The Holy Spirit is given to us to lead us into ALL TRUTH and if you are dismissing Him then you should CHECK EVERYTHING.

IN HIM

[mikitta]

I don't dismiss the Holy Spirit at all. But I've seen pleanty of WOFers say the Holy Spirit told them this and that thing which was clearly antibiblical.

And I DID attend a WOF service about 5 years ago where the congregants DID bark and moo, and one guy kept repeating "the freshness, the freshness" during what passed as worship - and their pastor spent 3/4 of his sermon saying that was the Holy Spirit and it wasn't faked. I had this very strong vision of Christ waiting politely in a chair on the Dias, waiting to be introduced, but He never was. It was the most unGodly (as in leaving God out) Church service I've ever attended. They didn't need the Holy Spirit, they had their own mass hysteria.

It's too bad things were so pruned when Christine updated the board. There used to be a lot of threads on WOF you could search for that had a plethora of information on WHY the movement is not of God.

God Bless,
mik

[mikitta]

http://www.discernment.org/wordfaith/WOF.htm

Gives a good rundown on the errors of WOF theology.

God Bless,
mik

[garvsgrl]

And David danced naked before The Lord. People thought he was a little nuts too.

I'm not saying that everything people in the WOF do meets what we would call normal but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I don't agree with all the Baptist don't believe in but I'm not bashing them and calling them a false religion. Be careful of who you bash, you may just be bashing God's kids.

IN HIM

[mikitta]

And David danced naked before The Lord.
You better quote book, chapter and verse for that.


I'm not saying that everything people in the WOF do meets what we would call normal but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
The baby that is WOF is pretty much APPOSTATE and the bathwater, so to speak, is just the false teaching that happens to spill out.

I believe I gave you enough information to see the FALSE TEACHINGS to see the movement IS a false religion and the perpetrators of that religion are leading a lot of people astray. They may be "God's Kids" but I suspect they are in for one doosy of a butt whippin' from dear ol' Dad.

God Bless,
mik

[BarbT]

We are to be like those Christians in Berea who measured everything the Apostles preached against the Word of God. The bible doesn't say to "bash" false prophets but it does command us to identify and expose their heresies, lest they infect new believers.

To read some heretical quotes from Copeland himself go here >> http://www.raptureready.com/rr-heresy.html

You will find some very enlightening KC teachings among these titles on the link:

*You Are A God :evil
*Kenneth Christ :twitch
*God Is the Biggest Failure :yell
*Jesus Didn't Complete The Work Of Redemption :cry
*Jesus Was Born Again :confused
*Faith Is A Force :nono

[garvsgrl]

2 Samuel 6:12-23

[mikitta]

And it says he was NAKED where? My Bible says he was wearing a linen ephod. It doesn't say he was prancing around in in the all together.

God Bless,
mik

[humbleone]

Well, for the summary, it said "Kenneth & Gloria Copeland deliver Bible-based teachings."

I don't "follow" anybody or give to any place other than my own, personal church. But I do not think the Copelands deliver false teachings in general. I avoided the health and wealth stuff cuz it makes me uncomfortable but I have to say, a LOT of what Kenneth and Gloria teach IS sound and Biblical in my opinion.

They are big on the Word.... the Word of God, Word this and Word that. It is not always for money/prospertiy or health or whatever. I cannot agree more with the poster who spoke about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Yes!

There is good and bad in all of us, whether we like to admit this or not.
There are preachers of the Word who have "good" stuff and "bad" stuff. A person would not be human otherwise, IMO.

[garvsgrl]

20 ¶ Then David returned to bless his household. 1 Chr. 16.43 And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel today, who uncovered himself today in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!

21 And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD.

22 And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honor.

23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

[mikitta]

Still doesn't say he was naked. He was wearing a linen ephod.

God Bless,
mik

[Ponderin]

(Feeling a Baptist Moo coming on here. )




Moo!

:heh (long windy story about jafo . . . DO NOT ASK .)



*insert Serious face here*


All Beside the point:


And David danced naked before The Lord. People thought he was a little nuts too.
It matters not what Micah thought or how Micah described his dancing ie. she despised him in her heart.


Says right here he was girded with a linen ephod. Though by dancing before the Lord with all his might it could be said he was transparent or rather naked before the Lord. But not in the shameful way he was described by the one who despised him. See, it matters not what others think or say about us because God sees the inward motives and secrets of the heart.



14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.


I see nothing wrong with Dancing before the Lord with all your might.






However, pulling 2 Samuel off the cutting room floor still does not make health, wealth, and prosperity a sound Biblical doctrine.

[mikitta]

Well said, Ponderin :) well said!

God Bless,
mik

[antsinmypants]

And David danced naked before The Lord. People thought he was a little nuts too.

Actually, he wore a linen Ephod. His wife accused him of dancing naked before everyone... and she was barren from that day.

the only person I know of who did anything naked in Israel was a prophet, and at the bidding of G-d to prophesy that Israel was to be taken into captivity naked...


And David danced before the LORD with all [his] might; and David [was] girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart....
...Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!

-2 Samuel 6

He was no undressed by any means. He was wearing proper clothing, in fact was wearing the linen ephod of the preistly line ... but he was not wearing his kingly robes.

If anything, he made himself humble before G-d which disgraced his wife... and she was wrong in thinking herself too high to rejoice in G-d and going against G-d's annointed.