Homosexual activism in the end of a culture - the Sodom Gomorrah connection.

[Ole Shosty]

I was just thinking today about how very aggressive the homosexual movement is in our culture, bordering on oppression, and was wondering where this violent anger comes from. Then I recalled the stories from Genesis and from Judges recounting homosexual rape gangs. When you think about it, those roving bands of homosexuals appeared to have a "mob rule" hold over the towns they lived in. It's as if the rule of morality was a thing of the past, and the people in charge were total degenerates (sound familiar?). It makes sense, then, that today we see how aggressive homosexuals are - how angry and violent. Think of Rosie O'Donnel. Before she came out, she seemed like a big teddy bear that you would WANT to raise a bunch of children. But since she came out, she has revealed her true nature - one that is EXTREMELY violent, filled with rage and hate.

Obviously there are plenty of homosexuals out there who are passive and just want to live quietly in their sin. But the movement as a whole is VERY aggressive. I think gays will be at the forefront of the coming persecution of Christians - and it makes sense. The unrepentant homosexual is in a state of pure rebellion against God and His laws. For them, there is no right or wrong but what they determine in their own hearts. Christians, on the other hand, stand for personal responsibility for one's actions - of course the homosexuals must fight tooth and nail to destroy the Christian influence in this culture!

What do you guys think?

[CountryPerson]

. . . .

Obviously there are plenty of homosexuals out there who are passive and just want to live quietly in their sin. But the movement as a whole is VERY aggressive. I think gays will be at the forefront of the coming persecution of Christians - and it makes sense. The unrepentant homosexual is in a state of pure rebellion against God and His laws. For them, there is no right or wrong but what they determine in their own hearts. Christians, on the other hand, stand for personal responsibility for one's actions - of course the homosexuals must fight tooth and nail to destroy the Christian influence in this culture!

What do you guys think?
Yes, I, too, think that the homosexual community and its strong base of support which is gaining momentum daily, will definitely be at the forefront of the persecution of true Christians. As I understand it, the Day of Silence, to be observed this Wednesday, will go on as planned in many schools across America. But, if I heard correctly, the Day of Truth (the Christian kids' response), will not be allowed in some of the schools. Perhaps someone else on this board can shed more light on this for us.

[Walkerbyfaith]

I think that when Christian persecution starts there will be some at the forefront. Though I do believe those people have lost what it is to be Human like God intended us to be.

I just wish more people would listen and not be stubborn or offended easily :/

[humbleone]

of Rosie O'Donnel. Before she came out, she seemed like a big teddy bear that you would WANT to raise a bunch of children

I saw this too.....

[QUOTE][But since she came out, she has revealed her true nature - one that is EXTREMELY violent, filled with rage and hate/QUOTE]
I cannot say I am a "fan" of Ms. O'Donnelll, but i also know as a believer, I need to be praying for her salvation.
It IS easy to be here and look at one in her position and come to these kinds of conclusions..... I have myself.... I hate to admit, but is true. But, remember also that she is another sinner in need of the grace, mercy and forgiveness of an Awesome, Loving God....

[QUOTE][Obviously there are plenty of homosexuals out there who are passive and just want to live quietly in their sin/QUOTE]
There are also many adulterers, porno addicts, lust freaks, TV addicts, workaholics, and everything else under the sun. Please do not single out homosexuals.... ok?

They do feel "picked on" and like other sins are OK but not their sin of giving into what seem natural desires to them... I speak from experience and I still have not had victory over my orientation... I did not choose it, and I cannot change it... only GOD can.....

just be careful, is mainly what im saying here...

Jesus didnt single out Mary Mag for being a prostitute... He just pointed out her SIN.... and didnt say her sin DEFINED her.... is all....

It is wrong IMO to attack people of homosexual persuasion just for that fact... and esp when u consider, your attacking them is NOT going to bring them to Christ...! Only the HOLY SPIRIT can do that....

[humbleone]

[QUOTE][The unrepentant homosexual is in a state of pure rebellion against God and His laws/QUOTE]

Sweetheart, ALL who sin openly and repeatedly against God are acting in rebellion... it is not just those of the homosexual orientation...

I see TIME AND TIME AGAIN, those stuck and afflicted in this condition being blamed for half if not all the ills in the world today.
Is that fair?

[Ole Shosty]

[QUOTE]

Sweetheart, ALL who sin openly and repeatedly against God are acting in rebellion... it is not just those of the homosexual orientation...

I see TIME AND TIME AGAIN, those stuck and afflicted in this condition being blamed for half if not all the ills in the world today.
Is that fair?

Please demonstrate where I have "blamed homosexuals for ALL The ills in the world today." I am not referring above to ALL homosexuals - I'm not including those who are content to keep their sin in their homes, or who are in fact repentant and are simply struggling to keep it under control.

I am referring to a segment of the gay community who are so brazen in their sin that they are laying the groundwork for pure and total persecution of Christians. These are THE SAME type of homosexuals that GOD HIMSELF SINGLES OUT in the story of Sodom and Gommorah. This isn't a group of people struggling with a sin, but a group TOTALLY given to their sin - unashamed. Such a one is in such rebellion that they become a real danger to people of faith - THAT is the reality of our culture today. Find me any other group of people who IDENTIFY THEMSELVES BY THEIR SIN that are also holding rallies, re-writing laws, and indoctrinating children INTO THEIR SIN. There isn't a ADULTERERS and CHEATERS Alliance - there isn't a National Association of Man-Boy LIARS.

If we appear to be targeting gays, it is because THEY THEMSELVES have placed themselves AS A GROUP who IDENTIFY themselves BY THEIR SIN, and shake their fists at God. I'm surely not suggesting they are the only sinners in the world - not suggesting they are beyond God's reach - not suggesting they should be harmed or shunned - we're just trying to identify the key players in this final stage of our culture - and the ones I see LEADING THE CHARGE against God's people and their rights are in three categories - Atheists, Abortionists, and Homosexuals.

[kristine]

[QUOTE=humbleone;3887896]

Please demonstrate where I have "blamed homosexuals for ALL The ills in the world today." I am not referring above to ALL homosexuals - I'm not including those who are content to keep their sin in their homes, or who are in fact repentant and are simply struggling to keep it under control.

I am referring to a segment of the gay community who are so brazen in their sin that they are laying the groundwork for pure and total persecution of Christians. These are THE SAME type of homosexuals that GOD HIMSELF SINGLES OUT in the story of Sodom and Gommorah. This isn't a group of people struggling with a sin, but a group TOTALLY given to their sin - unashamed. Such a one is in such rebellion that they become a real danger to people of faith - THAT is the reality of our culture today. Find me any other group of people who IDENTIFY THEMSELVES BY THEIR SIN that are also holding rallies, re-writing laws, and indoctrinating children INTO THEIR SIN. There isn't a ADULTERERS and CHEATERS Alliance - there isn't a National Association of Man-Boy LIARS.

If we appear to be targeting gays, it is because THEY THEMSELVES have placed themselves AS A GROUP who IDENTIFY themselves BY THEIR SIN, and shake their fists at God. I'm surely not suggesting they are the only sinners in the world - not suggesting they are beyond God's reach - not suggesting they should be harmed or shunned - we're just trying to identify the key players in this final stage of our culture - and the ones I see LEADING THE CHARGE against God's people and their rights are in three categories - Atheists, Abortionists, and Homosexuals.


Humbleone, you are in my prayers....:hug ..... but I have to go with Ol Shosty on this one.

During the "sexual revolution" we did not see people entering our schools in an attempt to FORCE people to accept their way. There was no "day of silence" or attempt to take God's law against fornication out of the church. Same with adulterers. Yes, tragically, there is an acceptance for these sins --- compliments of television, etc. BUT and it is a big BUT, the church STILL has the FREEDOM to speak out against and teach against these very sins. People did not force them into silence, nor did they ask the church to remove these laws.

The homosexuals are not the cause of all our woes but they are a very big part at this time. They are working hard to push Christians into removing ALL sexual sins from God's Word and in our teachings. We are expected to fully embrace homosexuality, bisexuality, so of course we're upset and speaking loudly against this.

Again, Humbleone, you are in my prayers. It took courage for you to speak up as you did. You are right, we are all sinners and sexual sin is a biggie.

[Iblvnjc]

You're right, Humbleone, all sin sends a person to hell. Thanks be to God for Jesus Christ in whom the penalty has been removed for those who trust in Him. I think the above posters and Christians in general look to this particular sin of homosexuality as the catalyst that seems to bring on God's judgment which has happened in the past history of man. When judgment comes, though, it comes on all sinners who have rejected Christ and die in their sins.

Praying for you in your struggles. May the Lord deliver you completely and wholly.

[POBsn]

I find it interesting that many of the most outspoken advocates of limits on "hate speech" aren't themselves homosexual. It seems almost like those who oppose Christianity have singled out a single wedge issue that really divides Christians, and after the last decade or so I have to admit that it's working. Most non-Christians and many professing Christians are now ashamed to associate with "traditional" Christians and people that follow a literal translation of the Bible are viewed with skepticism and even pity. It seems like issues like this surface every decade or so, whether it's abortion, interracial marriage, feminism, "free love" or whatever, but the issue of homosexuality seems to have found the most passionately divided audience.

[Lexie]

I find it interesting that many of the most outspoken advocates of limits on "hate speech" aren't themselves homosexual. It seems almost like those who oppose Christianity have singled out a single wedge issue that really divides Christians, and after the last decade or so I have to admit that it's working. Most non-Christians and many professing Christians are now ashamed to associate with "traditional" Christians and people that follow a literal translation of the Bible are viewed with skepticism and even pity. It seems like issues like this surface every decade or so, whether it's abortion, interracial marriage, feminism, "free love" or whatever, but the issue of homosexuality seems to have found the most passionately divided audience.

POB,

The homosexual bisexual transgender are being promoted as being a protected sexual group, using hate crimes laws. It's more then a wedge issue, when it came up for vote, the majority of voters spoke, that Anal sex is not normal. That was not good enough, the activists go around it, using the courts. This is not the same as the Africans, being treated like second class citizens, all over the world.

Children should not be forced to hear what these men do to each other, being forced to hear what the women do to each other or what they use to be LIKE men, at school or in businesses. God spoke on these issues along with other sexual sins. Pesecution will be coming where Christians will lose jobs, businesses, and thier own children for simply preaching about Jesus being the only way to Father, sin, and the global sustainable system, the world and religion is building.

Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,

[Ole Shosty]

You're right, Humbleone, all sin sends a person to hell. Thanks be to God for Jesus Christ in whom the penalty has been removed for those who trust in Him. I think the above posters and Christians in general look to this particular sin of homosexuality as the catalyst that seems to bring on God's judgment which has happened in the past history of man. When judgment comes, though, it comes on all sinners who have rejected Christ and die in their sins.

Praying for you in your struggles. May the Lord deliver you completely and wholly.

I agree with what you are saying - but I wanted to clarify that I don't think the Bible necessarily implies that homosexuality is the "final straw" in bringing about God's wrath. Rather, I think homosexuality REPRESENTS the bottom of the barrel that a culture can fall to.

The FIRST command God gave man in Genesis 1 was to "Be fruitful and multiply." Homosexuality, then, with its trademark INABILITY to be fruitful is in a sense bringing rebellion against God all the way back to the beginning. It is saying, "God, we SO disrespect you, that we are going to violate even Your VERY FIRST LAW!" What a slap in the face!!

[Iblvnjc]

I agree with what you are saying - but I wanted to clarify that I don't think the Bible necessarily implies that homosexuality is the "final straw" in bringing about God's wrath. Rather, I think homosexuality REPRESENTS the bottom of the barrel that a culture can fall to.

The FIRST command God gave man in Genesis 1 was to "Be fruitful and multiply." Homosexuality, then, with its trademark INABILITY to be fruitful is in a sense bringing rebellion against God all the way back to the beginning. It is saying, "God, we SO disrespect you, that we are going to violate even Your VERY FIRST LAW!" What a slap in the face!!


I agree. :thumb

[tygerkittn]

This could also be because homosexuals have no genetic stake in the future, they want to decide policies that affect the future, yet they won't be here and they can't have children (if they live strictly in the lifestyle they've chosen.) When society lets a group of people who have no investment in tomorrow decide policies, those policies are not necessarily in the best interest of society's future. It's like those CEOs that sacrifice the best interests of the company to make their own stock options go up right now. They have stock options that reward them for present performance, they have no incentive to build the company up for the future, so they lay everyone off for a quick fix, take their huge bonuses, and leave the company in a dire mess.
If you want the future to be good it should be decided by those who have a stake in it, such as the future of their children, not by small but vocal extremists who have no reason to plan ahead beyond their own lifetime.
If you follow God's plan then you will be happier than if you didn't. It's the same for society as a whole. He took all this into account when He made it this way, and He made it so that a society that catered to immorality would self-destruct.

[mom of 4]

[QUOTE]

[


[QUOTE]Jesus didnt single out Mary Mag for being a prostitute... He just pointed out her SIN.... and didnt say her sin DEFINED her.... is all....



I don't think Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. This notion was instituted into the church early on, but no where does the Bible say this is so.




I think the sin of homosexuality is one of the most rebelious against God. Here is why I think so........(this is something I have given thought to for awhile.......so bear with me). Please understand, that it is the sin I am attacking, and not the sinner. Every soul is precious in God's sight.


The Bible says, that when man and woman are married, they become one flesh. The act of marital love brings about creation(although this is a gift of God), it is an act between the husband and wife. And for arguements sake, those that are married without children for whatever reason have the potential for , and are in God's order. We are created in the likeness of God. When and if we are married, we have the potential with our other half to bring about God's creation. What a great and awesome gift. But, when we are speaking of a homosexual act, this act in itself is a mocking to who God is. It is mocking Him and His order and His creation. We can discuss premarital and extramarital sex too......it is a sin against God......but it is not openly mocking Him.

In examination of many cultures, homosexuality has played in downfalls of them. Rome is another example.

And as with other sins, people are not trying to force feed me that it is ok and I must accept it. No one is trying to force the notion that extra marital affairs are ok. We know that it is wrong. No one is trying to tell my kids at school that alcoholisim is a lifestyle choice. Or that coccaine usage is an alternate way of living. But yet......in canada you can't even cite the Bible where it says that homosexuality is an abomination. You get fined.


There is no other sin that I can think of that in the past ten years has pushed its way into society, and then pushed its way in to being ok. To being a "choice".

[Violet]

I don't think Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. This notion was instituted into the church early on, but no where does the Bible say this is so.

I think the sin of homosexuality is one of the most rebelious against God. Here is why I think so........(this is something I have given thought to for awhile.......so bear with me). Please understand, that it is the sin I am attacking, and not the sinner. Every soul is precious in God's sight.

The Bible says, that when man and woman are married, they become one flesh. The act of marital love brings about creation(although this is a gift of God), it is an act between the husband and wife. And for arguements sake, those that are married without children for whatever reason have the potential for , and are in God's order. We are created in the likeness of God. When and if we are married, we have the potential with our other half to bring about God's creation. What a great and awesome gift. But, when we are speaking of a homosexual act, this act in itself is a mocking to who God is. It is mocking Him and His order and His creation. We can discuss premarital and extramarital sex too......it is a sin against God......but it is not openly mocking Him.

In examination of many cultures, homosexuality has played in downfalls of them. Rome is another example.

And as with other sins, people are not trying to force feed me that it is ok and I must accept it. No one is trying to force the notion that extra marital affairs are ok. We know that it is wrong. No one is trying to tell my kids at school that alcoholisim is a lifestyle choice. Or that coccaine usage is an alternate way of living. But yet......in canada you can't even cite the Bible where it says that homosexuality is an abomination. You get fined.

There is no other sin that I can think of that in the past ten years has pushed its way into society, and then pushed its way in to being ok. To being a "choice".

mom of 4,
:hug
The Lord bless you and everyone you love.
This is an excellent summation of the topic at hand.
Very well said!

[Ole Shosty]

Good post, Mom of 4.

Heterosexual married couples are given sexuality as a gift to share, with the ultimate "goal" of producing offspring. With homosexuals, there is NO chance of producing offspring, thus the sex act between them is PURELY for pleasure - thus, it becomes a selfish act, rather than a glorifying one.

[markofthebest]

[QUOTE=Ole Shosty;3891406]Good post, Mom of 4.

QUOTE]

:thumb Agreed!

[Funmudder]

I don't think Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. This notion was instituted into the church early on, but no where does the Bible say this is so.

I think the sin of homosexuality is one of the most rebelious against God. Here is why I think so........(this is something I have given thought to for awhile.......so bear with me). Please understand, that it is the sin I am attacking, and not the sinner. Every soul is precious in God's sight.


The Bible says, that when man and woman are married, they become one flesh. The act of marital love brings about creation(although this is a gift of God), it is an act between the husband and wife. And for arguements sake, those that are married without children for whatever reason have the potential for , and are in God's order. We are created in the likeness of God. When and if we are married, we have the potential with our other half to bring about God's creation. What a great and awesome gift. But, when we are speaking of a homosexual act, this act in itself is a mocking to who God is. It is mocking Him and His order and His creation. We can discuss premarital and extramarital sex too......it is a sin against God......but it is not openly mocking Him.

In examination of many cultures, homosexuality has played in downfalls of them. Rome is another example.

And as with other sins, people are not trying to force feed me that it is ok and I must accept it. No one is trying to force the notion that extra marital affairs are ok. We know that it is wrong. No one is trying to tell my kids at school that alcoholisim is a lifestyle choice. Or that coccaine usage is an alternate way of living. But yet......in canada you can't even cite the Bible where it says that homosexuality is an abomination. You get fined.

There is no other sin that I can think of that in the past ten years has pushed its way into society, and then pushed its way in to being ok. To being a "choice".

Very well said indeed! :thumb

[CaiperLane]

I saw this too.....

[QUOTE]
I cannot say I am a "fan" of Ms. O'Donnelll, but i also know as a believer, I need to be praying for her salvation.
It IS easy to be here and look at one in her position and come to these kinds of conclusions..... I have myself.... I hate to admit, but is true. But, remember also that she is another sinner in need of the grace, mercy and forgiveness of an Awesome, Loving God....

[
There are also many adulterers, porno addicts, lust freaks, TV addicts, workaholics, and everything else under the sun. Please do not single out homosexuals.... ok?

They do feel "picked on" and like other sins are OK but not their sin of giving into what seem natural desires to them... I speak from experience and I still have not had victory over my orientation... I did not choose it, and I cannot change it... only GOD can.....

just be careful, is mainly what im saying here...

Jesus didnt single out Mary Mag for being a prostitute... He just pointed out her SIN.... and didnt say her sin DEFINED her.... is all....

It is wrong IMO to attack people of homosexual persuasion just for that fact... and esp when u consider, your attacking them is NOT going to bring them to Christ...! Only the HOLY SPIRIT can do that....

I don't think Funmudder was attacking homosexuals. She made it clear that there are those who choose to live in peace and quiet. It's the "Gay Agenda" she is referring to which isn't just espoused by homosexuals. It is pushed by the PC crowd so they can prove how progressive and tolerant they are.

It's being pushed in the schools while anything opposing it is labeled hateful and intolerant. Schools have NO business teaching personal convictions to our kids from a one sided point of view.

When anything involving Christianity comes into the schools it's fought and the erroneous claim of "separation of church and state" is shouted.

The "Gay Agenda" crosses the line when they attempt to force their ideals on OUR kids without our permission. OUR kids do not belong to them they belong to US.

[Emily]

"It makes sense, then, that today we see how aggressive homosexuals are - how angry and violent."

Ironically, it is your post that is "aggressive", "angry" and "violent". Take a gander at the enormous plank in your own eye before you try to pluck the tiny splinter out of someone else's eye.

QUESTION: How would you feel if someone said the things you said in your post about someone you loved??

I am extremely offended at everything you said in your post. I know and work with many homosexuals, and moreover, my sister is a homosexual as well.

I can honestly say that none of the homosexuals I know are "filled with hate, anger and violence". They are just people. Sinners, like you and me. You're a sinner too, remember? There is no difference between you and the depraved, disgusting animals you're describing in your post. Lest you attempt to boast: I know who YOU are. You are just a sinner saved by GRACE. As am I. I harbor no delusions of "purity" or being "better than". You are in a dangerous place when you try to elevate yourself above any other human being.

There are many, many homosexuals who are self-professed Christians. They aren't Christians, because of their lifestyle, but they are no different from adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, the prideful, the slanderers, and everyone else who labels themselves a "Christian" but continues to live in willful disobedience to God, with whatever their sin is. Homosexuals are not the evil, wild, rapists you're describing. They're deceived, like you were once. They're lost, they need guidance. They need love, not HATE.

Homosexuals are like every other sinner. They need to come to Christ. They need prayer. They need to hear the Word of God from bold speakers. They need to see the Christian walk being lived day to day. They don't need garbage like this: "total degenerates (sound familiar?)."

You are misusing the Word of God as an excuse for your own bigotry. You read the Bible and study the Bible (I assume) ... you are a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN (I assume) and you should know better. (If my assumptions are true!)

It never ceases to amaze me how quick some Christians are to point fingers and judge another SINNER who is no better or worse than themselves. JESUS is perfect--not you. JESUS is the judge--not you.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

[Emily]

I think the sin of homosexuality is one of the most rebelious against God. Here is why I think so....

With all due respect madam, who cares what you think? Sincerely--why should I or anyone else care why you have decided you know more than God? You are not Jesus. You are not the Holy Spirit. This is why we have the Holy Spirit--to discern the Word of God ourselves and not rely on faulty, misguided misinterpretations.

Last time I read the Bible, Jesus said, "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—" MomOf4?? Oops, no--the Bible says, "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."

[tygerkittn]

The Bible says homosexuality is the result of complete rejection of God, it's what happens when all trace of the Holy Spirit leaves your life.
It's a very seductive lifestyle, I spent my college years in gay bars, going to the Rocky Horror Picture Show every weekend, almost all of my friends were gay. They were very nice, they also almost all died of AIDS and I wasn't saved back then so I never witnessed to them. If you sacrifice the opportunity to witness to your friends because you want them to think you're cool and non-judgemental, you will regret it someday. They aren't saved, they wouldn't be continuing in that lifestyle if they were. Christians sin, but they don't keep committing the same sin over and over and putting their own desires over God's commands. They don't choose a lifestyle that is in direct disobedience to God. They don't wallow in a sin that God has spoken out against most strongly. I will pray for your sister and your friends, and you as well, because I know how protective you feel of them and how you hate to see them criticized, but don't let it stop you from trying to lead them away from that life.

[WatchingForHim]

Emily,

I don't think any generalization will ever be fully accurate, but I can't imagine that one could find many gays that will not react with anger when told their lifestyle is sinful, they shouldn't be allowed to marry or adopt, and they need to submit to a higher power and try to live by His rules, not theirs

Since you asked, I care what Mom of 4 thinks. I come here because I care what other people think, and that includes what you think too. I'm not as close to any gays as you are, so I probably can stand back and abstract what is being said a little differently; I never once read into anyone's post the belief that every single gay individual is angry or violent (etc.).

There is no denying that there is a vocal portion of the gay community that relishes attacking Christianity and Christian values. If there is any doubt, search for some of the pictures from the gay parades in San Francisco and you'll often find desecration of Christian imagery, lewd attire, and even public sex acts. If this isn't representative of the desires of the gay community, why isn't there a voice to moderate? I haven't heard one yet, and that certainly gives the impression of tacit approval.

Homosexuality is a sin, and there are many other sins. And if any group forms based around any of the other sins they will receive the same disapproval from Christians as the gays do. The reason that Christians are so actively opposed to homosexuality is because the gays are actively opposing Christianity, challenging our very rights to our Faith and our Hope, and actively attempting to subvert our authority to teach our children the morals God tells us to uphold.

Christians did not go on the offensive, we've always been in the same spot holding the same moral ground. It is the gays that have attacked Christianity. It is the gays who cannot stand to be told that what they are doing is wrong, and that if they don't repent they will be judged. It is the gays who cannot stand coexisting with a group that believes such a thing, so much that they want to bar us from speaking our beliefs and passing them on to others because the very thoughts are "hateful" in their ears.

Your co-workers, and your sister, are in a lot of trouble. Not because homosexuality is worse than any other sin, but because it is so deceptive and so polarizing, and so many people have been conviced it is their right to choose or it is just how they were born, and so they don't want to even try to change. I hope you are expending as much energy witnessing to them and leading them out of their sin as you can.

[Ole Shosty]

Emily:

With all due respect, what part of: "Please understand, that it is the sin I am attacking, and not the sinner," did you not get? She and I and the rest are talking about a sin, a lifestyle, and a CERTAIN SEGMENT of that community that does more than simply indulge in their sin, but actively attempt to make it a nationally accepted practice. No one has suggested that every homosexual in the book is an "evil,wild, rapist." But to shrug the shoulders and turn the eyes and say, "I don't want to oppose homosexuality because I might offend someone . . ." is counter to what the Bible stands for. What did Jesus say?

"Do you suppose I came to grant peace? No, but rather DIVISION. From now on five members in one household will be DIVIDED, three against two and two against three . . ." Luke 12:51-52

Jesus told us up front that standing for His word would mean dividing us, sometimes even from our own family members . . . remember when He said, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26 He also said,"Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother." Matthew 12:49-50

It is a hard truth, but it is a biblical one - God not only expects, but REQUIRES of us that we put EVEN OUR FAMILY second to Him and His truths. We are not here to make people love us, Emily - we are here to make people LOVE GOD! In doing so, we are going to step on toes.

The passage you quoted about the "plank" in the eye is never fully quoted by most people. Yes it tells us to examine our own lives first, but it THEN tells us that in doing so we will be able to "see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye!" In other words, it is expected that once we have our own lives in order, we WILL continue to call out sin as we see it in the rest of the world!

By all means, love your sister, pray for her, speak kindly to her, remain friends with her. But do not let the bond of sisterhood cause you to go soft on God's word. That is not what He intends. :wave

[Funmudder]

Emily,

with all due respect, its in love that we speak the truth about this movement to call evil good. Rejection of Gods law will send them to hell if not repented of, and homosexual behavior is a complete rejection of God's law. This is true for all sin. Hell will be packed with people who thought themselves good in their own eyes. Every single one of us was born in sin, and has a sinful nature. Every single one of us must take up our cross daily and turn from whatever it is that tries to keep us in bondage. Homosexuals are no better or worse than anyone else before submitting to Christ. Their life style is an abomination to the Lord, and no amount of politically correct mantras will change the Holy word of God.
How is it loving to let a person you know go to hell because you were more concerned about hurting their feelings during the meager few years they are alive?

By all means pray for your loved ones, but know you are only hurting them by pretending their lifestyle is okay. Its not. I pray for my gay friends and relative daily, and it crushes me to see how decieved they are. My love for them does not trump the command to be obediant to the Lord.

[CaiperLane]

And included within the gay agenda are activists that are NOT homosexual. They are political correctness advocates who are also responsible for pushing the agenda into the schools and other places within government.

They are trying to prove how progressive and tolerant they are and in doing so are giving this agenda more power.

As for singling out homosexuality, it's NOT that's it a greater sin in God's eyes BUT....it's "agenda" has a negative impact on society which IS greater than other "sins". A thief, a murderer or a rapist isn't banding together with others of like mind and pushing to not only legalize those choices but to force acceptance onto the rest of society. They are not taking any agenda to our children and behind our backs telling them with the schools support that it's okay and acceptable and that parents who disagree are hateful bigots.

I too also have gay friends whom I care about very much. I have shared the Gospel with them and we have even discussed the gay agenda. They for the most part DO NOT agree with the political agenda that is being touted. They do not agree with bringing it into the schools. And they just want to live quiet, peaceful lives and don't intend to showcase their lifestyle choice. It's the militant-type progressives who are responsible for wrapping their ideals throughout all of society! Banded together with gay activists they are forcing their choices as well as supporting NAMBLA, Trans-genders, Bisexuals and coming up is polygamy which has recently jumped on the bandwagon....

Jesus called out sin and labeled it what it was. He did "love the sinner" but always told them, go and sin no more.

As Christians we not only have to preach the Gospel, but we have to live our lives the way Jesus did. Not tolerating continuing sin, speaking up when sin begins to infiltrate society, and protect our children from ideas that will damage their spiritual upbringing, educations and relationships with the Lord.

[mom of 4]

With all due respect madam, who cares what you think? Sincerely--why should I or anyone else care why you have decided you know more than God? You are not Jesus. You are not the Holy Spirit. This is why we have the Holy Spirit--to discern the Word of God ourselves and not rely on faulty, misguided misinterpretations.

Last time I read the Bible, Jesus said, "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—" MomOf4?? Oops, no--the Bible says, "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."

Please don't attack me.


"The world can not receive".......this is true. But, when we are born and spirit filled, we are not of this world.


This lifestyle, that is being pushed on us.....yes pushed: is an abomination in the sight of the Lord. The 18th was a national day of silence......for a sinful lifestyle. I will not sit silently and nod my head and say...."this is ok." I would not be in the Spirit if I kept silent when felt moved to speak. The day of silence was what some in this group want: "To keep those that speak out against this lifestyle silent."

I would not stand silently for a day for any type of sins. Can you imagine a national day of silence for drug addicts? I will not stand silently for my sins either. I do not condone them.

I mention these few things, because it points to what this agenda is about. Pushing it on the public.....making our children think its perfectly fine, making our population desensitized about what is really right and wrong.

[Violet]

I work with homosexuals in a corporate setting. I love the sinner and hate the sin. I've witnessed to and prayed with a gay man at work who asked Jesus to be Lord of his life. He accepted 2 bibles and 2 books for himself and Mike.

Now this same man, as he received the bible, told me that he only believes that certain parts of the bible are true. So I must give him to the Lord in prayer. Only the Lord knows the true state of his eternal destination.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The Christian's response

Jude 1:23
Snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh

1 Corinthians 13
Love

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

9For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

***************
The Truth for the Christian is, we must be faithful to do what the Lord has called us to do. It is each person's choice as to what they will do with Jesus Christ.
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Galatians 6:7-8
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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The homosexual agenda is very real and very aggressive. They have an agenda because Satan has an agenda.
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1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.
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At my current place of employment (which is the global leader of its field) we had mandatory diversity training at which a homosexual presented. He was very forceful and emotional in presenting his material. He openly talked about his partner. At one point he stated (and I quote) “I will get in your face because I feel very strongly about what I believe in!” This current corporation is actively seeking out the gay and lesbian market.

At my last place of employment, which was the global leader in their field, a corporate policy change was emailed to all employees stating that the same sex partner’s of employees will now be eligible for medical benefits. But they kept quiet the new monthly $75.00 surcharge for spouses of married couples who wish to be enrolled on their spouse’s medical benefits. We also had mandatory diversity training there as well.

At both places of employment we were told that religious materials are to be taken down from our cubes. You are not to discuss religion. Because one corporate logo “appeared” religious it was discontinued and replaces with a logo that expresses the “diversity” the corporation has embraced.

As a side note, let me add that sales have tumbled at both corporations.

I have personally observed the behavior of homosexuals (my co-workers) become very flagrant, aggressive and bold.

I pray daily for all people because everyone is precious to the Lord.

In closing let us briefly review what the Bible says about sin.

Romans 1:18-32
God's Wrath Against Mankind

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,

30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;

31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

[mom of 4]

Last time I read the Bible, Jesus said, "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—" MomOf4?? Oops, no--the Bible says, "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."


I would like to know what was meant by this.


The truth is that the Bible says that this sin is an abomination. I do not know why, if you care not to what others think, why you posted, or even read my "cares".

Lastly, please do not attack the person.....but attack the arguement. OK?

[Jacobstrouble]

I was just thinking today about how very aggressive the homosexual movement is in our culture, bordering on oppression, and was wondering where this violent anger comes from. Then I recalled the stories from Genesis and from Judges recounting homosexual rape gangs. When you think about it, those roving bands of homosexuals appeared to have a "mob rule" hold over the towns they lived in. It's as if the rule of morality was a thing of the past, and the people in charge were total degenerates (sound familiar?). It makes sense, then, that today we see how aggressive homosexuals are - how angry and violent. Think of Rosie O'Donnel. Before she came out, she seemed like a big teddy bear that you would WANT to raise a bunch of children. But since she came out, she has revealed her true nature - one that is EXTREMELY violent, filled with rage and hate.

Obviously there are plenty of homosexuals out there who are passive and just want to live quietly in their sin. But the movement as a whole is VERY aggressive. I think gays will be at the forefront of the coming persecution of Christians - and it makes sense. The unrepentant homosexual is in a state of pure rebellion against God and His laws. For them, there is no right or wrong but what they determine in their own hearts. Christians, on the other hand, stand for personal responsibility for one's actions - of course the homosexuals must fight tooth and nail to destroy the Christian influence in this culture!

What do you guys think?

I think Hell gets closer each day for all sinners and it is so close I can almost feel the heat.

[PlentyGroovy]

Just a few years ago it was the show Ellen and Seinfeld showing sympathy and creating sympathy for people drawn to this sexual perversion. NOW we have pastors getting arrested for refusing to marry them. We have deviant behavior becoming militant about the right to be perverted. Sad. And Emily, the people most hurt by this are the homosexuals just trying to live out their lives by being left in peace. By being told that it's ok, it's a right, it's nothing to be ashamed of, being told to even be proud about it. How much harder is it to kick when society is encouraging and embracing this lifestyle?

[BHiles]

Love without truth is no love at all.

[markofthebest]

With all due respect madam, who cares what you think? Sincerely--why should I or anyone else care why you have decided you know more than God? You are not Jesus. You are not the Holy Spirit. This is why we have the Holy Spirit--to discern the Word of God ourselves and not rely on faulty, misguided misinterpretations.



I care what she thinks (and what everyone else thinks who post here). And I agree with her assessment of angry and miserable folks in the homosexual community.

BTW, the Holy Spirit is present for conviction of sin as well as for discernment.

Those who scream the loudest about misinterpretations are usually those who do not want to live by biblical standards. We here at this site did not make the rules - God did. To keep silent and allow those we care about to continue on in the life-style would not be an act of love. It would be the ultimate act of apathy.

[Jacobstrouble]

1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.


2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

[Emily]

Just a few years ago it was the show Ellen and Seinfeld showing sympathy and creating sympathy for people drawn to this sexual perversion. NOW we have pastors getting arrested for refusing to marry them. We have deviant behavior becoming militant about the right to be perverted. Sad. And Emily, the people most hurt by this are the homosexuals just trying to live out their lives by being left in peace. By being told that it's ok, it's a right, it's nothing to be ashamed of, being told to even be proud about it. How much harder is it to kick when society is encouraging and embracing this lifestyle?

I understand what you're saying. What you're saying is true, but the answer is not to make false and quite frankly unbiblical blanket generalizations about ALL homosexuals, as the original poster did to so much agreement. As Christians we are supposed to respond with love, not return the hate that is being directed at us and our faith and our Lord and His Word. The Bible says to rejoice if you are persecuted, that you will receive blessings in Heaven. The Bible says we need to love and pray for our enemy.

So much of the "homosexual agenda", as its being referred to here, is being put through legislative channels, and I think for the most part we as Christians are trying to (and should) respond in kind: by enforcing Biblical standards through legal channels. EX: preventing homosexual marriage (for the most part, successful) and preventing homosexual adoption (not happening) and preventing homosexuality from being discussed in public schools, including in extracurricular teen groups, etc. Obviously that's not happening, but it should. If these attempts aren't possible or successful, that's the way it is. Satan runs this world, but the LORD reigns, its His Will that ultimately will win against any puny person, group or evil entity that opposes Him. It's this way for a reason, we're coming to the end of world history and its not going to get better for us as Christians, it's going to get worse with every passing day.

As for certain people's judgements against me and what I said, including the person who insinuated I don't follow the Bible: Know that I serve Jesus Christ, HE is my LORD, not anyone on this message board. Your judgement of me as well as homosexuals in general is between you and the LORD. If you are a born again Christian and read and study the Bible, but are unable to apply its teachings to your own life, that's your walk. But be doers of the Word, not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

[Ole Shosty]

I understand what you're saying. What you're saying is true, but the answer is not to make false and quite frankly unbiblical blanket generalizations about ALL homosexuals, as the original poster did to so much agreement.

I would like you to demonstrate in my original post where I applied ANYTHING to ALL homosexuals. I would like you to do so in light of this, which was also in my original post:

"Obviously there are plenty of homosexuals out there who are passive and just want to live quietly in their sin."

I would also like you to find anything in my original post that is "unbilical" and to post your verse-backed reasoning as to why such comment is "unbiblical."

Go ahead . . .

[humbleone]

The Bible says homosexuality is the result of complete rejection of God, it's what happens when all trace of the Holy Spirit leaves your life

Huh?

[humbleone]

Now this same man, as he received the bible, told me that he only believes that certain parts of the bible are true. So I must give him to the Lord in prayer. Only the Lord knows the true state of his eternal destination

You're right, only the Lord knows his true state, and I am really glad that you did not jump to any conclusions or assumptions. You did your part and did so without judgment, as we all need to do. Good job!

[carmen]

As for certain people's judgements against me and what I said, including the person who insinuated I don't follow the Bible: Know that I serve Jesus Christ, HE is my LORD, not anyone on this message board. Your judgement of me as well as homosexuals in general is between you and the LORD. If you are a born again Christian and read and study the Bible, but are unable to apply its teachings to your own life, that's your walk. But be doers of the Word, not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.Emily, I'm not sure which poster you feel made "judgements against you," (this was the post that was called to our attention) but your last couple of lines here certainly made some judgments about others :sigh.

Let's all attack the ARGUMENT and not the person, please. If any group of people ought to be able to discuss an issue without attacking one another, it's Christians. Each time we try and fail at that, we demonstrate to a watching world that either we can't follow Christ as we call others to do, or Christ is powerless to help us walk as we ought. Either conclusion brings dishonor to God. Let's make sure our discussion are presented in love even in disagreement.

[sracer]

Ole Shosty, your original post in this thread was right on target. There is no need to defend it. Clarify if you feel the need, but don't justify.

You cannot prevent someone from taking a snippet of what you say out of context and using it for their own agenda. But if what you say is the truth motivated by love, then it will stand.

Having said that...

It is completely irrelevant whether or not homosexuality is "nature" or "nurture"... that debate is just a diversionary tactic. God's Word has called it a sin and THAT is the bottom line.

This thread isn't about individual sinners, but about a spiritual battle that is going on at a larger scale. Christians need to put on the whole armor of God, and do battle with the enemy. Christians also have the responsibility to share the Gospel, love others, and contend for the faith.

Note the word "contend"... it isn't "defend the faith" (as is so often mistaken)... even the NIV and NASB correctly translate Jude 1:3 as "contend for the faith".

There's a world of difference between "defending the faith" and "contending for the faith". Truth needs no defense, but it needs to be fought for.

[Ole Shosty]

Thank you, Sracer - :thumb