soundly saved?

[ccrunner]

I've been listening to the CD kit from Ray Comfort (Way Of The Master). I think that I may have been a false convert for the past 10 years. Not much fruit of the spirit, not going to church, witnessing, or reading my Bible, etc...

I have got down on my knees before God, naming my sins, repenting, and asking for forgiveness and salvation. I want to be sure that I am soundly saved.

But, I am pretty scared that even with that I may not be saved. It sounds kind of silly... I don't doubt Gods word, the atonement of Jesus, or His ability to save me... I doubt my own heart and my own ability to truly repent before a Holy God. I feel like I am not pouring my heart out in sorrowful repentence.

Any opinions or advice?

[Robbinson]

I've been listening to the CD kit from Ray Comfort (Way Of The Master). I think that I may have been a false convert for the past 10 years. Not much fruit of the spirit, not going to church, witnessing, or reading my Bible, etc...

I have got down on my knees before God, naming my sins, repenting, and asking for forgiveness and salvation. I want to be sure that I am soundly saved.

But, I am pretty scared that even with that I may not be saved. It sounds kind of silly... I don't doubt Gods word, the atonement of Jesus, or His ability to save me... I doubt my own heart and my own ability to truly repent before a Holy God. I feel like I am not pouring my heart out in sorrowful repentence.

Any opinions or advice?

Hi ccrunner:

I like Ray Comfort's material - and I think an understanding that we are sinners is necessary before we can be ready to really understand the gospel. I would suggest that you keep reading God's Word, as much as you can - and pray often to God with, to the best of your ability, an open and sincere heart. Oh Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy - I pray that your Holy Spirit will come to Ccrunner and touch Ccrunner's very soul and open the door to Ccrunner's true understanding and acceptance of the Gospel as Ccrunner earnestly seeks your presence and to know you - I pray that you draw Ccrunner into the loving and warm embrace of our Lord and saviour, Jesus Christ, whose love knows no bounds. I pray this in Jesus name. Amen

Thinking and praying for you now my friend.

Regards

[Crusader]

Well, ccrunner, you are here asking these questions and that is a good sign. Assurance comes when you are obedient and have fruit to show for your faith, not when you are still struggling with obedience. Charles Spurgeon talked about this in her sermon "Predestination and Calling" (http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/predest.txt):

No man ever desired Christ in his heart with a living and longing desire, who did not find him sooner or later. If thou hast a desire, God has given it thee. If thou pantest, and criest, and groanest after Christ, even this is his gift; bless him for it. Thank him for little grace, and ask him for great grace. He has given thee hope, ask for faith; and when he gives thee faith, ask for assurance; and when thou gettest assurance, ask for full assurance; and when thou hast obtained full assurance, ask for enjoyment; and when thou hast enjoyment, ask for glory itself; and he shall surely give it thee in his own appointed season.

Ask God for faith, He is the giver of faith and life and all things that are good.

[G-d Seeker]

I've been listening to the CD kit from Ray Comfort (Way Of The Master). I think that I may have been a false convert for the past 10 years. Not much fruit of the spirit, not going to church, witnessing, or reading my Bible, etc...

I have got down on my knees before God, naming my sins, repenting, and asking for forgiveness and salvation. I want to be sure that I am soundly saved.

But, I am pretty scared that even with that I may not be saved. It sounds kind of silly... I don't doubt Gods word, the atonement of Jesus, or His ability to save me... I doubt my own heart and my own ability to truly repent before a Holy God. I feel like I am not pouring my heart out in sorrowful repentence.

Any opinions or advice?

Your spirit is saved immediately upon confession of Jesus as your Savior and that God raised him from the dead (Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9; Eph. 2:8-9). There is nothing you can do to earn this gift. It is salvation of your spirit apart from works. Works do not procure salvation by grace, add to salvation by faith, or make salvation by grace any more sure. This is a salvation that was accomplished in the past, and it is the present possession of every believer. It is an active, continuing, ever-abiding salvation, and it is eternally secure for every believer. There is nothing man can do to annul this salvation (Romans 8:38-39). Once a person has been saved, he is considered to have passed "from death into life" (John 5:24). This aspect of man's salvation is a spiritual rebirth and it is accomplished when man's spirit is regenerated (i.e., made alive) by the Holy Spirit. Spiritual rebirth is a supernatural work of God, and it is not something that man attains to in any way.

Now that you belong to him, will you obey him? Will you put to death daily the deeds of the flesh by submitting to the Holy Spirit within you and be transformed by the renewing your mind that you may prove what the will of God is? (Romans 8:13; Romans 12:2). For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them (Eph. 2:10). Good works should occur after spiritual rebirth since this is how Christians grow and mature. Do not confuse daily walking or progressive sanctification with past salvation of spiritual rebirth. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12). This working out is "work" and cannot be referring to a gift of spiritual salvation. This is referring to the sanctification of your soul. You must make a conscious decision each morning to place your will under the rulership of the Spirit. Your spirit wants to obey the Holy Spirit now that you belong to Him. Your body and soul, however, have a very different pulling toward the ways of the world and will continually battle with the desire of your spirit to obey. You must consciously make the effort place your body and soul under the submission of the Holy Spirit.

It is for your own good you submit to His authority. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad (2 Cor. 5:10). This scripture is talking about believers; not unbelievers. Christians will be recompensed for the good things that they have done, and they shall also be recompensed for the evil things that they have done which have not been forgiven according to 1 John 1:9. All sin which has been confessed by the believer has been forgiven by the Lord Jesus Christ in his current function as our High Priest. Only unconfessed sin will be recompensed at the Judgment Seat of Christ (1 John 1:9).

I remember hearing an interesting analogy of one who is reborn by the Spirit but never grows to full maturity. When a brand new baby is brought into the world, he is a beautiful sight. Soft, pink skin; tiny, little fingers and toes; curious eyes and a precious smile. The birth of a new baby is call for celebration. However, come back in ten years to see that baby has remained a newborn; that once beautiful sight has turned into a tragedy.

You are saved; now you must grow.

[Robbinson]

Your spirit is saved immediately upon confession of Jesus as your Savior and that God raised him from the dead (Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9; Eph. 2:8-9). There is nothing you can do to earn this gift. It is salvation of your spirit apart from works.

Well said G-d Seeker. However, I think the key is an honest, sincere and full confession of Jesus as your Savior. There are many who make a confession - but don't really mean it (thus the parable regarding two groups of Jesus' followers - one who found salvation - one who Jesus said "he did not know" even though the spoke in his name). Scripture tells us that no one seeks after God on their own - and no one comes to Jesus but he who the Father draws. So it takes the act of the Holy Spirit to make any of this possible (thus my prayer for Ccrunner). Its a bit of the "chicken and the egg" - I agree anyone who makes that sincere and full confession will be saved (and I agree with your description of works as not affecting savlation, but reward thereafter) - but I don't believe anyone will or can make that confession without God's intervention.

Now - as to what causes God's intervention - that is a thorny question which has been the subject of many threads on the Board (e.g., election v. free will -armeniasm v. calvinisim, etc.). Ultimately - however, whatever the cause of intervention, it requires God's grace and mercy. Praise God :): (and we are all blessed by the opportunity of fellowship here at RR)

Regards

[HeIsEnough]

I've been listening to the CD kit from Ray Comfort (Way Of The Master).

...

But, I am pretty scared that even with that I may not be saved.


It really doesn't sound like this teaching has helped you any.

Do you believe in your heart God was raised Christ from the dead?

Have you confessed with your mouth Jesus is Lord?

It is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Positionally, you are in Christ. Emotionally, life is a roller coaster for a while, for lack of a better way to say it. It is important to believe this, one because God stated it, which is what Abraham was accredited righteousness for, his believing God. Two because when you begin to rest in what Christ has done on your behalf, you will then start to grow and know it more better.

[HeIsEnough]

Considering all you heard in terms of doctrine, you should consider carefully this statement I highlighted by the Apostle Paul...along with the rest of this scripture.


Romans 10

1Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'[c]" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Submitting to God's righteousness, is to put your faith and trust in His Son. Sorry if that is not as flamboyant as some like to preach nowadays, and it may not spur any on to holy living (as we all acknowledge is good), but it will be the exact message of salvation you should cling to, with all your might.

[WCoastBeliever]

But, I am pretty scared that even with that I may not be saved.

Pray to God each day for him to guide through the day. As you begin to really know that it is God that is guiding you, you will feel the assurance of your salvation.

If you are concerned about sinning in the future, ask God to help you through the hurdles.

Our God is wonderful and he helps all of us.

[Crusader]

Positionally, you are in Christ. Emotionally, life is a roller coaster for a while, for lack of a better way to say it. It is important to believe this, one because God stated it, which is what Abraham was accredited righteousness for, his believing God. Two because when you begin to rest in what Christ has done on your behalf, you will then start to grow and know it more better.

HeIsEnough, it is not your place to give someone else assurance. Proof of salvation is not some prayer you make. A lot of harm has been done by people giving other people assurance that do not deserve it. The Bible tells us to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith.

If you want assurance, examine yourself.

Examine Yourself - by John MacArthur (http://www.gty.org/resources.php?section=positions&aid=195)

Quotes:

The Bible never verifies anyone's salvation by the past but by the present. If there is no evidence of salvation in your life now, you need to face the fact that you may not be a Christian. You need to examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith. How does one do that? Jesus shows us in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5‑7).

If you want to know if you're a Christian, compare your life with the standard Christ presents in the Sermon on the Mount. One word summarizes His standard: righteousness. Examine the lives of many professing Christians, and you'll find no such righteousness.

The Bible makes it clear that those who are genuinely saved are righteous and holy. They still sin, but with decreasing frequency. A true believer hates his sin (cf., Rom. 7:15‑25) and repents of it, hungering and thirsting for what is right. He obeys God, loves his brother, and hates the evil world system. No one can be a Christian and continue living the way he did before he knew Christ. Making a decision years ago, going to an inquiry room, walking an aisle, or reading a tract on how to accept Christ is not a biblical criterion for salvation‑‑the issue is what your life is like right now. If sin and unrighteousness characterize your life, there is a possibility you are a disobedient Christian‑‑but there is a greater possibility you are not a Christian at all.

[HeIsEnough]

HeIsEnough, it is not your place to give someone else assurance.

Crusader, I did no such thing. That you read it that way, is your own problem. The op identified everything the Romans scripture offered as to what it takes to be saved, and then some. If the op chooses to affirm those particular words of scripture, it is up to him/her, not you.


Proof of salvation is not some prayer you make.

Thats nice. I gave scripture as to exactly what they state salvation entails. It wasn't opinion, and its not up for debate.


A lot of harm has been done by people giving other people assurance that do not deserve it.

I'll ask you for definitive validation for this assertion. (I.E. not statistics)

There is no harm in declaring the gospel of Jesus Christ. That some are 'not up to snuff' for you is, again, your problem.


The Bible tells us to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith.


Yes, it does. However, it would be more beneficial if you posted them and expounded on how they relate to the believer.


If you want assurance, examine yourself.


Agreed, and it appears the op is doing so by starting this thread.

[Crusader]

HeIsEnough, I just quoted you saying that he is in Christ. How do you know that?

[HeIsEnough]

HeIsEnough, I just quoted you saying that he is in Christ. How do you know that?

Well, that makes more sense. This was an easy clarification, and it could have been treated as such. Don't mean to have a trigger finger towards you, but I have been attacked enough lately.

It was after doing what you failed to quote from my post. Namely, this part:


Do you believe in your heart God was raised Christ from the dead?

Have you confessed with your mouth Jesus is Lord?

It is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

[G-d Seeker]

Christians do not lose their salvation when they become unfaithful and carnal (2 Tim. 2:11-13).

2 Timothy
"You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted him as a soldier. Also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules."

The above is not talking about salvation. You cannot win salvation. It is a gift (see post #4 above). This is talking about those who are already enlisted and chosen as active soldiers. Paul is encouraging these soldiers to work to please the one whom enlisted them as soldiers.

"For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory."

If they are chosen, they will obtain the salvation of their spirits. "Eternal glory" is something that must be sought after as if in a race or competition. You are enlisted, you are a competitor in order to win a great prize. That prize is NOT your salvation. Have you ever wondered what that prize could be? You will find descriptions of the crowns offered to those who work for them in the Scriptures.

"It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, he also will deny us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

Once you are a part of His body, He cannot deny you. Once you are reborn (like that newborn baby), you cannot go back into the spiritual womb and be unborn. Once you are born by grace through faith in the confession that Jesus the Messiah is your Master and Savior and that the Father raised him from the dead; you are spiritually reborn.

Now, as a member of the body of Christ, you may choose to be useful and build the body up. This will be to your very great advantage. You may choose to turn on the very own members of your body. If you are an eye, use it to see; if you are a leg, use it to walk. Just because you choose not to use what you were reborn to be, does not mean you become unborn. However, at the end of your life, your part in the body of Christ will be wasted away from non-use; atrophied, shriveled up and of no value.

"Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:24-27).

Do you think Paul was afraid of losing his salvation? Again, salvation is a gift; it is not earned by racing, competing or any other effort by man. You cannot "hold" onto your salvation once it has been freely given to you. So, why was he racing as if in a competition? Why does he discipline his body and make it his slave? He is running to win the "imperishable wreath." A "wreath" is a crown given to winners of a race. This passage points to one of the crowns available to those who work for it.

Each day as you awake in the morning, pray. Throughout the day, pray. Continue to repent where needed. In the evening, pray. Open your Bible and search for hidden treasures meant for you to find. Share with others out of the abundant blessings given to you (whether monetary or treasures found in Scripture).

In this way, you will not atrophy. You will grow.

[CanuckMedic]

No man ever desired Christ in his heart with a living and longing desire, who did not find him sooner or later. If thou hast a desire, God has given it thee.

That right there should give you strength.

[ccrunner]

Thank you everyone! I will continue to study, grow, and work out my salvation with fear and trembling.

[Forgiven_1]

I've been listening to the CD kit from Ray Comfort (Way Of The Master). I think that I may have been a false convert for the past 10 years. Not much fruit of the spirit, not going to church, witnessing, or reading my Bible, etc...

I have got down on my knees before God, naming my sins, repenting, and asking for forgiveness and salvation. I want to be sure that I am soundly saved.

But, I am pretty scared that even with that I may not be saved. It sounds kind of silly... I don't doubt Gods word, the atonement of Jesus, or His ability to save me... I doubt my own heart and my own ability to truly repent before a Holy God. I feel like I am not pouring my heart out in sorrowful repentence.

Any opinions or advice?

Wow, you sound like me. I was lead to the Lord by Kirk when I heard him preach "Soundly Saved." The gospel become the power of God unto salvation for me that night, but I still had many problems with sin for a very long time. What really helped/helps me is learning really weighty truths and doctrines. I think Biblical truth have exactly the opposite effects on us as we would assume. Before I understood covernant theology or the doctrine of "eternal security" I assumed that it would cause a Christian to live a cavalier lifestyle and cause them to sin. But, once I started to understand it, it gave me a passion to live for God and aim hard at not sinning. In fact, temptation became an occasion for me to prove my love to God. I didnt always win, but by God's grace I got so much better and am still growing in grace. I praise God for that. Study his word and KNOW it. I believe that is the only way we will win over sin.

[humbleone]

not when you are still struggling with obedience.

I disagree with this one completely.

We all struggle with obedience.... I know I still do....

The fact that there IS even a struggle, to me at least, suggests that you are trying and wanting and willing to OBEY.....

If there was no struggle at all... then there I might have some concerns...

Press on! The walk is not easy for any of us and Jesus made no bones about this....

[Crusader]

I disagree with this one completely.

We all struggle with obedience.... I know I still do....

The fact that there IS even a struggle, to me at least, suggests that you are trying and wanting and willing to OBEY.....

If there was no struggle at all... then there I might have some concerns...

Press on! The walk is not easy for any of us and Jesus made no bones about this....

I agree. But I think when you are losing the sin battle and basically not being very righteous it naturally takes away your assurance. Not that you are not saved but the feeling of being secure in your salvation is taken away and you generally feel lousy about yourself.

[humbleone]

Not that you are not saved but the feeling of being secure in your salvation is taken away and you generally feel lousy about yourself.


Yes, but this, and feelings especially! do not NEGATE ones salvation.

[Rodney]

I've been listening to the CD kit from Ray Comfort (Way Of The Master). I think that I may have been a false convert for the past 10 years. Not much fruit of the spirit, not going to church, witnessing, or reading my Bible, etc...

I have got down on my knees before God, naming my sins, repenting, and asking for forgiveness and salvation. I want to be sure that I am soundly saved.

But, I am pretty scared that even with that I may not be saved. It sounds kind of silly... I don't doubt Gods word, the atonement of Jesus, or His ability to save me... I doubt my own heart and my own ability to truly repent before a Holy God. I feel like I am not pouring my heart out in sorrowful repentence.

Any opinions or advice?

Are these "Way Of The Master" guys teaching salvation by works or something? Sounds like you are worried you aren't working hard enough to be saved? Sounds like you are saying you are not saved unless you do a good enough job of "pouring your heart out"?

We are saved by grace you cannot earn it. We are saved through faith in Jesus Christ. (By the way in the Greek to repent actaully means change your mind or mindset its not about how much feelings of badness you can conjure up in yourself).

If your actions aren't up to scratch then look at your trust/faith in Jesus that is what matters (and what determines our actions). Focus on Jesus not on trying harder to be good. Trust in Jesus don't trust in you or worry about wether your faith is strong enough to save you trust that Jesus is stong enough to save you.

Belief in Jesus is what it is all about. Sure that belief goes beyond what you tick on a religious afiliation form, it means trusting in the person Jesus Christ but belief is what it is about not works of any description.

When Jesus said to believe in him to be saved he was talking to people who could plainly see that he existed so he was obviously talking about more than just belief that he existed. If I say I believe in Christine (the RR admin) I am not merely saying that she exists (something that is beyond dispute though a prerequisite) I am talking more about trust in that person and what they are about. Likewise if I say I believe in George Bush - as an example I am not saying that though- I am not just saying the obvious fact that he exists but more I trust in his competance to lead the country. I think that is more the sense that Jesus is talking about believing in him to be saved. In that sense the people who say belief is more than just head knowledge are right. But even so at the end of the day it is about belief "in"(or trust) rather than works.

You don't need to worry that you aren't "feeling" repented enough to be saved you just need to be foucsing on Jesus and TRUSTING him. Once you worry "is my faith strong enough to save me or not" its the wrong focus because at the end of the day you are focusing on you and on your worth/capability and that is the wrong focus as we know that you are not good enough. But rather it is about Jesus who is good enough to save you.

[HeIsEnough]

Are these "Way Of The Master" guys teaching salvation by works or something?

One does have to wonder...

[SeaDreamer]

I read something interesting yesterday. It's obvious, of course, but for some reason it set a light bulb off in my head (normally a pretty dim place:D: )

Our salvation is based on Who our faith is directed towards, NOT the faith itself or the amount. Muslims have plenty of faith in allah, enough to die for him and live lives of great restraint in a lot of ways. But that isn't going to save them. Despite all their faith, it's directed at the wrong person.

It's our faith in Jesus Christ that saves us, not the amount.

I'd also like to point out the one saved so as by fire in the Bible. I suspect there wasn't a lot of "proof" of salvation in that person's life, but they are still saved. Also, one of the crowns a person gets is for not indulging fleshly desires. That indicates there will be crownless believers in heaven, crownless due to their indulging in the flesh but still in heaven. Soundly saved. Just a bit less decorated than the rest of us....er, the rest of them.....:D:

[jmak]

ccruner.......keep reading The Word Of God...........I love these 2 verses out of John-

John 17
3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

17Sanctify[b] them by the truth; your word is truth.

Gods Word is definitely living and active........just keep reading, asking for revelation and wisdom, and the blessings from The Lord will continue to flow.......and I know that you are aware of all this, but this is what came to me. Peace thru Jesus Christ!!!!

[Iblvnjc]

ccruner.......keep reading The Word Of God...........I love these 2 verses out of John-

John 17
3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

17Sanctify[b] them by the truth; your word is truth.

Gods Word is definitely living and active........just keep reading, asking for revelation and wisdom, and the blessings from The Lord will continue to flow.......and I know that you are aware of all this, but this is what came to me. Peace thru Jesus Christ!!!!

Yes, this is very good advice. Keep seeking Him like you are doing now. You wouldn't have been interested in reading the "Way of the Master" material if God were not drawing you. Read God's Word daily. Recommit your life to Christ if you feel led to and actually "turn" from your sins when the Holy Spirit makes you aware of them. You can do this - it's a choice. God bless you in your walk.

[head1982]

I remember hearing an interesting analogy of one who is reborn by the Spirit but never grows to full maturity. When a brand new baby is brought into the world, he is a beautiful sight. Soft, pink skin; tiny, little fingers and toes; curious eyes and a precious smile. The birth of a new baby is call for celebration. However, come back in ten years to see that baby has remained a newborn; that once beautiful sight has turned into a tragedy.


:thumb

great parable, and eye opener indeed.

Ccrunner, i won't say to you anything new, because i think everybody has given great advice, and my 2 cents to you is this great verse in Ezekiel 36:26-27

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

cling to the Promises in the Word of God, remember is his Work He will accomplish in you.

[CountryPerson]

I've been listening to the CD kit from Ray Comfort (Way Of The Master). I think that I may have been a false convert for the past 10 years. Not much fruit of the spirit, not going to church, witnessing, or reading my Bible, etc...
I have got down on my knees before God, naming my sins, repenting, and asking for forgiveness and salvation. I want to be sure that I am soundly saved.
But, I am pretty scared that even with that I may not be saved. It sounds kind of silly... I don't doubt Gods word, the atonement of Jesus, or His ability to save me... I doubt my own heart and my own ability to truly repent before a Holy God. I feel like I am not pouring my heart out in sorrowful repentence.

Any opinions or advice?
I'm having a little trouble understanding the term soundly saved. Either a person is saved or they're not. On the following website, John MacArthur has a wonderful series during the month of April on Assurance. You can just click on each portion of the series and print it off. There are several parts to it, and I think it will be of great benefit to you.
www.biblebb.com There is also a Q & A section on the same site that will have some Ques. on Assurance which you will find by clicking on 'A'.

[browneyedgirl]

Are these "Way Of The Master" guys teaching salvation by works or something?

I've wondered this too. Especially when I listened to Paul Washer's sermon on their website. I appreciate their ministry, but the Paul Washer sermon caused me to question my salvation because he teaches that a true convert to christianity doesn't backslide. A few years ago when situations in my life seemed overwhelming I grew away from God. One day I realized that I was far from Him and didn't even have any idea how to return to Him. I thank God for His patience and mercy and that He never gave up on me!

[CanuckMedic]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the term soundly saved. Either a person is saved or they're not. On the following website, John MacArthur has a wonderful series during the month of April on Assurance. You can just click on each portion of the series and print it off. There are several parts to it, and I think it will be of great benefit to you.
www.biblebb.com There is also a Q & A section on the same site that will have some Ques. on Assurance which you will find by clicking on 'A'.


Interesting quote from that site...

"When Israel of old was about to leave Egypt and the last awful plague was about to fall on the land and its people, the death of the firstborn, do you remember that God provided a way of escape for His people? They were to slay a lamb and then they were to take the blood of the lamb and sprinkle it on the doorpost and the lintel, or the crosspiece. And when the angel of death, the destroying angel passed through that night he wasn't permitted to enter any of those blood-sprinkled houses. Why? Because God had said, "When I see the blood, I will pass over you." That's what Passover means. Inside the house there might have been some families rejoicing. There might have been some families shaking, worried because they'd committed sins, because they had been iniquitous, because they had cheated their Jewish neighbors even in exile, because they had committed adultery or fornication, because they had robbed, because they were hypocrites. But their security depended not on their frame of mind, not on their feelings, not on the record of their past deeds but on the fact that God saw...what?...the blood. And when He saw the blood, they were protected. "

[CanuckMedic]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the term soundly saved. Either a person is saved or they're not. On the following website, John MacArthur has a wonderful series during the month of April on Assurance. You can just click on each portion of the series and print it off. There are several parts to it, and I think it will be of great benefit to you.
www.biblebb.com There is also a Q & A section on the same site that will have some Ques. on Assurance which you will find by clicking on 'A'.


Guys you need to be reading this. Some great bits in here...


Listen to what Dr. Ironsides said. "Now test yourself in this way. You once lived in sin and loved it. Do you now desire deliverance from it? You were once self-confident and trusting in your own fancy goodness. Do you now judge yourself a sinner before God? You once sought to hide from God and rebelled against His authority. Do you now look up to Him, desiring to know Him and to yield yourself to Him? If you can honestly say yes to these questions, you have repented. Your attitude is all together different than what it once was. You confess you are a sinner, unable to cleanse your own soul, and you're willing to be saved in God's way. That's repentance. And remember, it is not the amount of repentance that counts, it is the fact that you turned from self to God that puts you in the place where His grace avails through Jesus Christ. Strictly speaking," he says, "not one of us has ever repented enough. None of us has realized the enormity of our guilt as God sees it, but when we judge ourselves and trust the Savior whom He has provided, we are saved through His merits. As recipients of His loving kindness, repentance will be deepened and will continue day by day as we learn more and more of His infinite worthy and our own unworthiness," end quote.

Yes it's mostly a Calvinism point of view but I no longer even care about that anymore as it's just a distraction.

Great reading, I haven't been able to stop though my eyes are killing me :eek

[CanuckMedic]

Wow, and again...

There's another way in which the Spirit bears witness. In Galatians chapter 4, very much like the text of Romans, it says in verse 6, "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts crying Abba Father." Listen, the very fact that Scripture is illuminated to me, that I understand it, is the Spirit bearing witness that I'm a child of God. Why? Because if I wasn't a child of God, I couldn't understand the Bible. Right? The natural man...what?...doesn't understand it. So the very process of illumination means the Spirit is in me and that's a confirmation that I belong to God...the matter of loving Christ. What made me hate sin and love Christ? What made me all of a sudden realize God had sent His Son into the world to die for my sin and if I put my faith in Him God would live in me and I would live in Him? And what caused me to love Christ and to dwell in the love of God and the love of Christ? The work of the Spirit. That puts me in touch with the Holy Spirit's work in me and that's how He witnesses to me that I'm a child of God. Unbelievers don't have that. The unbelieving world does not love God, does not love Christ, does not turn to Christ as Savior because the Spirit's not working in them, because they're not God's children.

Man, I have to get to bed but this is excellent...

[HeIsEnough]

There's another way in which the Spirit bears witness.

http://206.251.74.38/forum/showthread.php?t=235822

[CountryPerson]

...

Yes it's mostly a Calvinism point of view but I no longer even care about that anymore as it's just a distraction.

Great reading, I haven't been able to stop though my eyes are killing me :eek

C. Medic, I'm very glad that you are enjoying the Bible Bulletin Board website. It's been a favorite of mine for years, and I've learned a lot from going there.
It's true that J. MacArthur leans toward a Calvinist position, although he won't state it as such. He is definitely pre-trib and is one of the few remaining radio ministers who even occasionally has a series on the rapture. I've heard him preach it many times. Also, if he were a staunch Calvinist, he wouldn't likely be quoting from Harry Ironside's book on Assurance. Ironside was an arminian. ;):

[CanuckMedic]

C. Medic, I'm very glad that you are enjoying the Bible Bulletin Board website. It's been a favorite of mine for years, and I've learned a lot from going there.
It's true that J. MacArthur leans toward a Calvinist position, although he won't state it as such. He is definitely pre-trib and is one of the few remaining radio ministers who even occasionally has a series on the rapture. I've heard him preach it many times. Also, if he were a staunch Calvinist, he wouldn't likely be quoting from Harry Ironside's book on Assurance. Ironside was an arminian. ;):

Righto, and as I mentioned it's really not an issue anymore with me personally but it might be with some others, so I was hoping to just cut off that thought at the pass;)

His writing has been a blessing to me as i've been lacking assurance lately.