2 Peter 3:9, 1 Peter 3:18a

[Enlightenment]

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.

Who did Christ die for? A certain set of elected people? Or did he die for all mankind?

If as the Calvinist claims, Peter is talking about the elected saints here in the books of Peter, why then would all elected people need to come to repentance? Haven't they already repented and believed? (v. 9)

Aren't unrighteous people those that are not saved? Why would the elect need to be brought to God? (v. 18)

[Crusader]

That is the whole point in Christ's delay, because those He has choosen and predestined have not yet repented and believed. The fact that He has not yet returned means that He has more people yet predestined to heaven that He is going to save.

Just because a person is elected doesn't mean God is going to take them straight up to heaven without doing any work in them.

[Enlightenment]

That is the whole point in Christ's delay, because those He has choosen and predestined have not yet repented and believed. The fact that He has not yet returned means that He has more people yet predestined to heaven that He is going to save.

Now that's interesting. So God's "irresistible grace" is tied to when individuals decide to repent and believe? Why doesn't God, whom you like to remind us, is all sovereign simply bring it about?

Just because a person is elected doesn't mean God is going to take them straight up to heaven without doing any work in them.

non sequitor

[Crusader]

Now that's interesting. So God's "irresistible grace" is tied to when individuals decide to repent and believe? Why doesn't God, whom you like to remind us, is all sovereign simply bring it about?

Irresistible grace is tied to when God decides it's time to give one faith. Why doesn't he bring it about sooner than later? It's God's timing; I'm sure He has good reason.

[Sincere]

Enlightenment

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

In understanding anything, context is key. Who is the "us" refering to? Well, go one verse back to v8 and you'll see that it is the "beloved." Verse 1 tells us that this is now the 2nd letter to the "beloved" or the "us." So go back to the first letter, namely 1Peter 1:1 and you'll see who the letter is addressed to, namely "the elect of God." You can also look at this in the Greek which make even more sense and shows even more clearly who the "us" is refering to, namely God's elect.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.

You might want to look at that scripture again. I think you quoted it wrong.

Who did Christ die for? A certain set of elected people? Or did he die for all mankind?

That's a fair question. You have a few scriptures that say he died for the "world." OK, lets disregaurd for a minute that the world "world" in scripture does just mean everyone, but believers only, unbelievers only, the planet, Jews in contrast to Gentiles, etc., lets forget that and just assume that world means everyone in particular. Here is the question that leads to the crux of the issue: What does Christ death accomplish? Does he merely offer salvation or actually saves through his death? According to scripture, "His name will be called Jesus because 'he will save his people from their sins'" (Mat 1:21 Isa 53:11, etc.). So we know that when Jesus died, the wrath of God was removed because he was propitiated. In other words, because of Christ paying the "siin bill" so to speak, God's justice has been met. Now pay attention here, you must understand the nature of the atonment for this to make sense. If Jesus died for the world, and his death suceeded in propitiating God or having God's justice satisifed, then why are there some people in Hell?

A person CANNOT be in hell if Jesus already paid for their sin bill. You will say "they did not believe or they did not repent," but that in no way solves the prove; for if God's justice is met through Christ already paying the price of sin on every sinner's behalf, the sinner cannot again pay what Jesus already supposedly paid. Therefore, it logically shows that Christ did not pay for everyone's sin, but as Jesus himself said, "the many that God has given to Jesus from out of the world" (John 17:6). That is why Jesus said so very clearly, "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many"(Mark 20:28). Christ gave his life a "ramsom" for his church - his sheep..."I lay down my life for the sheep" he said. Honestly people, my hope and prayer is that what I say will lead you to study God's word. It is so big and deep and weighty and inexhaustible and fun, etc. Do not let what I say get you angry...Right divide the word of truth. "Test to see if these things arent so." If you have anymore questions, I'd be happy to help. God bless!

Aren't unrighteous people those that are not saved? Why would the elect need to be brought to God?

The elect need to be bought of God because they are born in sin and therefore need to be born again. Hebrews 2 discusses this indebt. It says that Christ tasted death for "everyone." Continue reading from v9 to the end and you'll see who the "everyone" is refering to. It is so clear and so fun to read. Moreover, you'll see why Christ had to come and die, namely because his brothers (elect of God) were sinners and had to be atoned for. Again, read Hebrews 9. I'd suggest that everyone here download esword bible software. Its FREE and you can get free bibles, different translation, greek and hebrew dictionaries, commentaries, boks, etc, free! This will be good for practicing hermanutics; something we all need.

Pro 25:2
- Sincere

[CaiperLane]

Ah boy. You all know the mods will shut this thread down too.....right?


Give it up.......


I say let's tell knock, knock jokes.... :D:




Knock knock!

[Enlightenment]

Knock knock!

Who's there?

[CaiperLane]

Who's there?


Lettuce

[Enlightenment]

Lettuce

Lettuce Who?

[CaiperLane]

Lettuce Pray!




Bwaahahahahahahahahaha.................:laugh :heh :lol :pound :D:

[Cocoa1080]

lol... thats a good one