No one has ever seen God?

[theroc]

1 John 4:12
No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.

Any one know what he is saying?

[My Abba's Child]

1 John 4:12
No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.

Any one know what he is saying?

No one has seen God at any time... I'm not sure what problem you're having with this... can you tell me exactly where you're seeing a problem?

If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.

IF (maybe when these days...) we love one another... we don't need to SEE God, we experience Him because when we love one another God abides IN us and His love is perfected... we are at our most perfect, our most Godly, when we're loving one another.

Remember when Jesus asked someone what the greatest commandment was? He said, "Love the Lord your God with all your mind, with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your strength." Jesus commended the fella and said, that this commandment is like the first... "Love your neighbor as yourself." Then, just before Jesus left us, He gave us a new commandment, "Love one another as I have loved you." This is how the WORLD will know that we are His disciples!

Did this help at all? :):

In His love,

[Heavensent]

Until our hearts have been purified we will not be able to see God. Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

The seraphs shield their eyes with one of the sets of wings because of the holiness of God.
Isaiah 6:2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.

Moses was only permitted a backward glimpse of God because no one can see God and live. Moses asked that he may see God's glory.
Exodus 33:18 Moses said, "Please show me your glory."
Exodus 33:19 And he said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name 'The LORD.' And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
Exodus 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live."
Exodus 33:21 And the LORD said, "Behold, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock,
Exodus 33:22 and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by.
Exodus 33:23 Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen."

[Born Again]

Yes, but when the disciples looked at Jesus they were looking at
God...were they not?

[Hi Hopes]

Yes, but when the disciples looked at Jesus they were looking at
God...were they not?

ABSOLUTLY!!!
But, GOD was made in the flesh at the time, so that HE could dewell among man.
GOD's "GLORY", stayed with the FATHER in heaven.
As JESUS said, "I CAN ONLY SAY, WHAT THE FATHER TELLS ME!"
JESUS was the WORD OF GOD MADE FLESH.
So that HE/GOD could dewell among man.
That is my understanding.
HE came in humility that time. The next time, HE WILL COME IN GLORY.

[Hi Hopes]

Yes, but when the disciples looked at Jesus they were looking at
God...were they not?

Sorry, a double post.

[theroc]

ABSOLUTLY!!!
But, GOD was made in the flesh at the time, so that HE could dewell among man.
GOD's "GLORY", stayed with the FATHER in heaven.
As JESUS said, "I CAN ONLY SAY, WHAT THE FATHER TELLS ME!"
JESUS was the WORD OF GOD MADE FLESH.
So that HE/GOD could dewell among man.
That is my understanding.
HE came in humility that time. The next time, HE WILL COME IN GLORY.

what about when Jesus was resurrected and was shown to over 500 people?

[Hi Hopes]

what about when Jesus was resurrected and was shown to over 500 people?

HE said, "touch me not, for I have not yet risen". Into HIS GLORY.

[Jacobstrouble]

ABSOLUTLY!!!
But, GOD was made in the flesh at the time, so that HE could dewell among man.
GOD's "GLORY", stayed with the FATHER in heaven.
As JESUS said, "I CAN ONLY SAY, WHAT THE FATHER TELLS ME!"
JESUS was the WORD OF GOD MADE FLESH.
So that HE/GOD could dewell among man.
That is my understanding.
HE came in humility that time. The next time, HE WILL COME IN GLORY.

So the 1 John 4:12( No one has seen God at any time) needs to be corrected?

[SJC72]

So the 1 John 4:12( No one has seen God at any time) needs to be corrected?

I was just reading through this thread, and I guess I don't understand this statement. The fact is that NO ONE has directly seen God the Father. Jesus Christ has always been the Father's agent in dealing with humanity. This would include Old Testament times when God sent the second person of the trinity in the form of the Angel of the Lord to appear to people. Of course we know this was the preincarnate Christ. The fact remains that no one has seen the Father. Just my opinion of course.

[Jacobstrouble]

Is this Jesus as God or His agent?

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

[SJC72]

Is this Jesus as God or His agent?

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Both.

In the doctrine of the trinity, while all 3 are God and equal in essence, it can be said (to put it simply) that the 3 have diffrent "jobs". God the Father is and always has been the planner. Jesus stated that it was His will to do the will of the Father. In other words It always has been the Second person of the trinity's job to fulfill the Father's plans.

So in this respect He can be said to be God the Father's "agent" in dealing with man, but this NEVER takes away the fact that Jesus (before and after coming to earth) has always been and always will be GOD. If I misunderstood what you are asking, I do apologize.

[Hi Hopes]

So the 1 John 4:12( No one has seen God at any time) needs to be corrected?

NO, dearly beloved, of the LORD.
The BIBLE NEVER NEEDS OR CAN BE CHANGED.
No man can see GOD's FACE in all HIS GLORY, (of which stayed in heaven, as CHRIST was on the earth) and live.
That is why Moses, could only see the back side of GOD, as HIS GLORY past by him.
Then, Moses seeing just the backside of GOD'S GLORY, had to have his (Moses) face covered. Because of the radience that was coming from Moses's face.

[Jacobstrouble]

Both.

In the doctrine of the trinity, while all 3 are God and equal in essence, it can be said (to put it simply) that the 3 have diffrent "jobs". God the Father is and always has been the planner. Jesus stated that it was His will to do the will of the Father. In other words It always has been the Second person of the trinity's job to fulfill the Father's plans.

So in this respect He can be said to be God the Father's "agent" in dealing with man, but this NEVER takes away the fact that Jesus (before and after coming to earth) has always been and always will be GOD. If I misunderstood what you are asking, I do apologize.

So no one has seen God at anytime yet Christ is the God of whom we may see? The Trinity makes this possible due to the Son’s propitiation of our sin?

[Born Again]

Jesus said to Philip...if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

[SJC72]

Let me put it this way...Whether we are discussing man seeing, the Angel of the Lord, or the Glory of God that Moses saw, or Jesus Christ here on earth, each time this was the Son appearing in an embodiment of God. What I'm trying to say is that this verse is pointing out that no man has seen God as He truly is. If anyone was to see God as He truly is...that person would not survive it as the bible states. Did I make any sense here?

[Hi Hopes]

Jesus said to Philip...if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

Boy! This is starting to make a lot of sence now!
When CHRIST came in the flesh. It was was the very heart of GOD being poured out, for sinful man.

For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

When CHRIST was on earth, we saw GODS HEART, in the flesh.
Flesh and blood, cannot inhert the "KINGDOM OF GOD," you must be born again, of the SPIRIT.

[Light]

When the NT speaks of "God" as one word, it is speaking of the Father not God the Son. It is quite true that no one has seen God the Father. The Israelites understanding was that you could not see Him and live. God the Father "...dwells in unapproachable light."

[Hi Hopes]

When the NT speaks of "God" as one word, it is speaking of the Father not God the Son. It is quite true that no one has seen God the Father. The Israelites understanding was that you could not see Him and live. God the Father "...dwells in unapproachable light."


GOD IS, ONE!
GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT!
JOHN 1;1
IN the begining was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD, and the WORD WAS GOD.

[Transformed]

"1 John 4:12
No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us."

And follow that with verse 13, "by this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit."

Even though we haven't seen God, His Spirit has been permanently given to us as evidence that we are God's children. (The permanency is indicated by the perfect tense verb.)

And Romans 5:5, "... the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit."

God's love was poured out at the moment of our salvation and still floods our hearts through the Holy Spirit. Again, a perfect tense verb indicating permanency.

Jesus was the visible manifestation of God during the Old and New Testaments. The Holy Spirit is the visible manifestation of God in believers now, working in us and through us.