Exactly how much responsibility do we have for others stumbling?

[Butterflylady]

This was brought up in my study group... We didn't come to a conclusion so I thought I'd ask it here. :):

Must we examine all things we do to some extent on how they will affect others? Such as if we buy a very expensive and flashy car... Would we have any guilt in causing others to stumble and cause them to envy or possibly even to have them steal? If we are having a big party and there are 100 people there and one of them is an alcoholic... Would we have a burden to not serve any alcohol because we might cause that one out of a hundred to stumble? Etc etc...

Usually I say that much of what we do is either sin or not depending on our heart. (Ex: If we buy a car with the express desire to cause envy in others, vs buying an expensive car because it has the highest safety rating) But then we began to discuss our responsibility to others regardless of our motive.

Any thoughts?

[allforHim]

I think if our sin makes someone else sin, then we're probably responsible partly. Buying an expensive car is not a sin, so if it causes someone to covet, we're not to blame.However, if we buy an expensive car and then brag about it too much and someone covets then maybe we're party responsible. I think the alcohol situation could be resolved by explaining that there will be alcohol at the party, that way its up the the alcoholic to decide if they can resist the tempation.(Although, I think that the guest should assume there might be alcohol without you telling them) I think it really comes down to your intentions.Interesting thread :thumb

[andy]

You have posted a very good question? I have wondered about this myself.
The following is just my opinion:

God knows our heart and our motives in everything we do or say. Some times someone will stumble over the smallest thing. Some men will stumble over a woman wearing a bathing suit. I am not talking about a thong, bikini, or something of that nature. I am talking about a modest, old fashioned bathing suit. Something to swim in, not parade around half naked.

Is it the woman's fault or the man's? It is the man not the woman. Is she responsible, no she is not.

Shorts. Some women I have seen have worn shorts all the way up to their rear end. Not good.

Some shorts I have seen are just above the knee, modest yet still shorts. Are they both shorts, yes. But there is a difference. One is modest, one is not.

That is just a small example. We should not cause anyone to stumble but also remember that an individual is also responsible for themselves and their actions or thoughts.

jmho

:wave

[InSpirit]

Sin is in all of us, so I guess that makes all of us responsible. I'm just thankful that we are given the choice to accept the forgiveness for these sins through Jesus Christ.

Rom 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one"

YBIC

Adam David

[Caver]

Great thread, thank you. Lately I have started asking myself the same question. Should I now go to a resturant or grocery store on Sunday? If I do, somebody has to work on Sunday to wait on me. The list never ends.

Not throwing stones here. Contemplating the question and the extent to which it is and is not intended that I go. Obviously, there are limits. Simply by living and being healthy, some with disabilities or older could envy me. Many questions, not many answers.

[Butterflylady]

Great thread, thank you. Lately I have started asking myself the same question. Should I now go to a resturant or grocery store on Sunday? If I do, somebody has to work on Sunday to wait on me. The list never ends.

Not throwing stones here. Contemplating the question and the extent to which it is and is not intended that I go. Obviously, there are limits. Simply by living and being healthy, some with disabilities or older could envy me. Many questions, not many answers.

It was a really interesting discussion we had... All sorts of things came up like what you said, but it seemed that each person had a different "line" at which they felt responsible.

I had said that I thought it mostly was about our intentions, but others were saying that we must at least take others into consideration in most things we do, intentions or not. Because that is sort of what Jesus meant in loving others as ourselves. I would have to say I agree with that. We consider ourselves before we buy a car or house or jewelry or alcohol etc... but do we consider others too at the same time? I have to think about this...

Sort of like the car analogy. I may want a safe car for my family, but do I really need the super duper chrome wheel cover thingys, and the $2,000 stereo system etc...? Would I be getting those because I just really liked them, or would I at least at some level be getting them to show off? I've never had that so I have no idea... But knowing how we can all fall into pride so easily it makes me wonder about myself.

I know I am covered and forgiven, but at the same time I don't want to cause others to sin (even if they too are covered) if I can at least help it.

[Gary]

My own VHO, is that actions (sin) is what we are being warned against. I don't think there's any problem with buying an expensive house, car, swimming pool or whatever. If you have the money, worked hard for it you deserve to spend it however you wish. The 10 Commandments says "Thou shall not COVET", not "Thou shall not have or buy". In this case the responsibility for feelings, jealousy or whatever is the onus of the other person, not the one who buys nice things.

I think what Scripture is getting at is that, as Christians, basically all things are allowed (in moderation) but not all things are profitable. Christ even says it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out of him. I take that to mean, for example, if you want an alcoholic beverage, go for it (again, in moderation). However, if your drinking is going to cause someone else, possibley an alcoholic, to stumble, hop off the wagon, question their faith or whatever, then it's better to NOT have that drink. As far as the extent of culpability, I think that judgement is determined by the heart. If you accidentally do something that causes someone else to stumble, well, it's exactly that, an accident. I don't believe that anyone would be judged at fault. If you knew of a weakness and acted anyway, resulting in a stumble you would most certainly be judged to be at fault for your actions. If you deliberatley do something to MAKE another stumble, (I can't see a Christian doing this), then I think you would be judged VERY harshly indeed.

Just MHO.

[Butterflylady]

My own VHO, is that actions (sin) is what we are being warned against. I don't think there's any problem with buying an expensive house, car, swimming pool or whatever. If you have the money, worked hard for it you deserve to spend it however you wish. The 10 Commandments says "Thou shall not COVET", not "Thou shall not have or buy". In this case the responsibility for feelings, jealousy or whatever is the onus of the other person, not the one who buys nice things.

I think what Scripture is getting at is that, as Christians, basically all things are allowed (in moderation) but not all things are profitable. Christ even says it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out of him. I take that to mean, for example, if you want an alcoholic beverage, go for it (again, in moderation). However, if your drinking is going to cause someone else, possibley an alcoholic, to stumble, hop off the wagon, question their faith or whatever, then it's better to NOT have that drink. As far as the extent of culpability, I think that judgement is determined by the heart. If you accidentally do something that causes someone else to stumble, well, it's exactly that, an accident. I don't believe that anyone would be judged at fault. If you knew of a weakness and acted anyway, resulting in a stumble you would most certainly be judged to be at fault for your actions. If you deliberatley do something to MAKE another stumble, (I can't see a Christian doing this), then I think you would be judged VERY harshly indeed.

Just MHO.


Wow very well said! That was kind of how I was thinking, but you put it in the words I couldn't. Mind if I quote you at my next study? :D:

[Gary]

Wow very well said! That was kind of how I was thinking, but you put it in the words I couldn't. Mind if I quote you at my next study? :D:


PLease be my guest.:):

[Jany]

If you are a Christian, you are a living stone, and you can still cause people to stumble. I would rather cause them to stumble because I know Christ than because I am leading them astray from Him. I Peter 2:5 says, “you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” We are living stones, and we are being fitted into this spiritual edifice which is called the Holy Temple of God. <><