Do we have the right to believe we can live a sinless life?

[PastWS]

Luke 1:74-75 "That he would grantunto us,that we being delivered out of the hands of our enemies might serve Him without fear.In hollieness and righteousness before him,all the days of our life."were we no told "be therefor holy for I am holy"?1st Peter 21-22 "for even hereunto were ye called because Christ also suffered for us ,leaving us an example,that ye should follow His steps
Who did no sin ,neither was guilde found in his mouth"chapter 4-5 says though the suffern of Christ we can be holy that we can live life in the spirit n not have to live in the flesh.1st John 3 :5-9 tells us that we are to pureify ourselves n that if we do righteousness we r righteous but if we are in sin we r of him who is sin we can only seve 1 master not 2 . To sum it up I truly believe that in human form but through the spirit Jesus has sent us we can live holy as Christ n we r told to do so .God loves u all n wish that non shold perish but all recieve everlasting life . God Bless

[Richard G]

You CAN live a sinless life, through the power of the Holy Ghost. God commanded it. "Be ye holy, for I am holy."

[Ponderin]

. To sum it up I truly believe that in human form but through the spirit Jesus has sent us we can live holy as Christ n we r told to do so .God loves u all n wish that non shold perish but all recieve everlasting life . God Bless


You CAN live a sinless life, through the power of the Holy Ghost. God commanded it. "Be ye holy, for I am holy."




1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

[boxer77]

I wonder if there has been anyone after being saved, that has not sinned?:confused
Our sin nature is still with us even after we are born again.

[Rainbo2]

Speaking for no one but myself, I don't think I can, all I can do is try my best and repent when I mess up. Paul didn't seem to think he could either. In Romans 9:14-25 he says, "14. We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspititual, sold as a slave to sin. 15. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16.And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17. As it is, it is no onger I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18. I know that nothing good lives in me that is, inm y sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do- this I keep on doing. 20. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21. So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23. but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my ind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25. Thanks be to God- through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I believe that it's possible to live a sinless life, as Richard G said "through the power of the Holy Ghost" I just don't think it is very probable. He would need to be in control of your life 24/7, the moment He wasn't the devil would be there tempting you.

I heard a preacher say, "How long do you think you can go without sinning? A month, a week? The whole day? A few hours?" Have you had a lewd thought? Lost your temper with someone who cut you off in traffic? Gossiped? Coveting anyones stuff lately? Lied to anyone, even a little tiny lie? Lusting after someone who isn't your husband or wife? For us single folks, lusting after anyone of the oppisite sex? The list goes on and on. Frankly if I am left alone, I can maybe go most of the day, maybe a whole day, just don't get me out in public where other folks are around to bother or tempt me. I don't even want to think about trying for a whole week, much less a month! Praise the Lord! Jesus is a loving forgiving Savior.

[Ponderin]

I wonder if there has been anyone after being saved, that has not sinned?:confused
Our sin nature is still with us even after we are born again.


Westminster Shorter Catechism
Question 82


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Q: Is any man able perfectly to keep the commandments of God?
A: No mere man, since the fall, is able, in this life, perfectly to keep the commandments of God;1 but doth daily break them, in thought,2 word,3 and deed.4



1 Kings 8:46. If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not), and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near.
Ecclesiastes 7:20. For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
1 John 1:8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us
1 John 1:10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Galatians 5:17. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Genesis 6:5. And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Genesis 8:21. And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Romans 3:9. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin.
James 3:8. The tongue can no man tame: it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
James 3:2. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

[PastWS]

My fellow brothers n sisters of God ,lets look at 1st john chapter 3 vers2-9
"Beloved,now are we the sons of God,and it doth not yet apear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear,we shall be like him;for we shall see him as he is.and every man that hath this hope in him PURIFIETH himself as he is PURE. Whosoever comitith sin transgresseth the law; for sin is thetransgression of the law.And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins;and in him is no sin. Whosoever abidith in him SINNETH NOT ,Whosoever SINNETH HATH NOT SEEN HIM,NEITHER KNOWN HIM.Little children LET NO MAN DECIEVE YOU ;HE THAT DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS is RIGHTEOUS EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS. HE THAT COMMITTETH SIN IS OF THE DEVEL ; FOR THE DEVIL SINNETH FROM THE BEGINNING.FOR THIS PURPOSE THE SON OF GOD WAS MANIFESTED , THAT HE MIGHT DISTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL.WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOTH NOT COMMIT SIN ; FOR HIS SEEN REMAINETH IN HIM; AND HE CANNOT SIN.BECAUSE HE IS BORN OF GOD." N AGAIN 1 PETER 2 21-22" FOR EVEN HEREUNTO WERE YE CALLED;BECAUSE CHRIST ALSO SUFFERED FOR US LEAVING US AN EXAMPLE,THAT YE SHOULD FOLLOW HIS STEPS .WHO DID NOT SIN,NEITHER WAS GUILE FOUND IN HIS MOUTH."AND U CAN READ CHAPTER 4 G/B PWS

[MrMannn]

A sinless life is a fantasy. A myth. Not the Pope nor Mother Teresa were free of sin.
Apart From Jesus NO Biblical personality was free of sin. Certainly not Paul who wrote much of the NT.

I sin every day. BUT I am FORGIVEN! and thus my sin is washed away. And so shall I stand righteous before the Lord on that day.

[waslostnowfound]

NO lol we can't live sinless. It is in our very genes to sin. Now you aren't going to examine DNA and be like, "Hey, that's the sin gene" (rofl that sounds SOOOO weird), but the sin of Adam is in the "seed" of man; therefore everyone who was born without a (human) father is already guilty of sin, and it is constantly in us... always. Also, if we didn't sin then we would be perfect, or incorrpitable (lol w/e Paul says when he's explaining the transfiguration), but anyways that oly happens when we get our glorified bodies, and we don't have them yet lol. So we can't live without sin.

[MrMannn]

So, PastWS.
1) Are you saying that anyone who still sins is not saved?
2) and are YOU sinless?

[Larry B]

I wonder if there has been anyone after being saved, that has not sinned?:confused
Our sin nature is still with us even after we are born again.

Amen to that! The only one Who was without sin is Jesus Christ, and He intercedes on the behalf of those who trust in Him for their salvation. If we were "without sin", even after being Born again, what need would we have for His intercession????:doh Our sin nature is with us until the Rapture or death, and therein lies the Christian struggle- just as Paul described. Anyone who truly believes that they are without sin is deceived IMHO.

[boxer77]

Westminster Shorter Catechism
Question 82


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Q: Is any man able perfectly to keep the commandments of God?
A: No mere man, since the fall, is able, in this life, perfectly to keep the commandments of God;1 but doth daily break them, in thought,2 word,3 and deed.4



1 Kings 8:46. If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not), and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near.
Ecclesiastes 7:20. For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
1 John 1:8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us
1 John 1:10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Galatians 5:17. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Genesis 6:5. And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Genesis 8:21. And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Romans 3:9. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin.
James 3:8. The tongue can no man tame: it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
James 3:2. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

I knew the answer I was just tryign not to be sarcastic lol. But that is a good post!

[Leuretha]

My fellow brothers n sisters of God ,lets look at 1st john chapter 3 vers2-9
"Beloved,now are we the sons of God,and it doth not yet apear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear,we shall be like him;for we shall see him as he is.and every man that hath this hope in him PURIFIETH himself as he is PURE. Whosoever comitith sin transgresseth the law; for sin is thetransgression of the law.And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins;and in him is no sin. Whosoever abidith in him SINNETH NOT ,Whosoever SINNETH HATH NOT SEEN HIM,NEITHER KNOWN HIM.Little children LET NO MAN DECIEVE YOU ;HE THAT DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS is RIGHTEOUS EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS. HE THAT COMMITTETH SIN IS OF THE DEVEL ; FOR THE DEVIL SINNETH FROM THE BEGINNING.FOR THIS PURPOSE THE SON OF GOD WAS MANIFESTED , THAT HE MIGHT DISTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL.WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOTH NOT COMMIT SIN ; FOR HIS SEEN REMAINETH IN HIM; AND HE CANNOT SIN.BECAUSE HE IS BORN OF GOD." N AGAIN 1 PETER 2 21-22" FOR EVEN HEREUNTO WERE YE CALLED;BECAUSE CHRIST ALSO SUFFERED FOR US LEAVING US AN EXAMPLE,THAT YE SHOULD FOLLOW HIS STEPS .WHO DID NOT SIN,NEITHER WAS GUILE FOUND IN HIS MOUTH."AND U CAN READ CHAPTER 4 G/B PWS
:thumb :thumb :thumb

[Rainbo2]

To sum it up I truly believe that in human form but through the spirit Jesus has sent us we can live holy as Christ n we r told to do so .God loves u all n wish that non shold perish but all recieve everlasting life . God Bless

Ok, from the quote I see that you believe it can be accomplished, as I said I think it's possible just not probable. You are saying that we are commanded to live a sinless life, and it is possible if we have the Holy Spirit. I'm not sure that I agree, as I said that would take walking with the Holy Spirit 24/7, I have yet to meet anyone, or heard of anyone who has accomplished that. Are you saying that living a sinless life is required for salvation? That is something I totally disagree with. The only thing required for us to be saved is excepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

[Richard G]

that would take walking with the Holy Spirit 24/7

Why wouldnt one do that? With fasting, and prayer it is possible to walk in the Spirit, and be holy, everyday. Temptation is not sin, we will be tempted.

Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

If one is struggling with a particular sin, seek God, lay it at his feet. If you sincerely want to overcome it, the Lord God will give you power to overcome your flesh. I'm not telling you what I've read or heard, I'm telling you what God has done for me. I'm telling you the truth.

We must die to ourselves daily. Starve the flesh, and feed the Spirit, soon those old temptations will not even come to your mind anymore, and the joy of the Holy Ghost will fill you to overflowing.

Gaurd your tongue, and your eyes, be content in all things with thanksgiving to God and you will not covet. Submit yourself to the will of God, and you will be satisfied.

[Rainbo2]

Why wouldnt one do that? With fasting, and prayer it is possible to walk in the Spirit, and be holy, everyday. Temptation is not sin, we will be tempted.

Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

If one is struggling with a particular sin, seek God, lay it at his feet. If you sincerely want to overcome it, the Lord God will give you power to overcome your flesh. I'm not telling you what I've read or heard, I'm telling you what God has done for me. I'm telling you the truth.

We must die to ourselves daily. Starve the flesh, and feed the Spirit, soon those old temptations will not even come to your mind anymore, and the joy of the Holy Ghost will fill you to overflowing.

Gaurd your tongue, and your eyes, be content in all things with thanksgiving to God and you will not covet. Submit yourself to the will of God, and you will be satisfied.


Oh I would love to be able to say that I manage to walk with the Holy Spirit 24/7, it would be a bald faced lie it I did though. I'm not saying He isn't with me alway, I'm just saying that there are plenty of times that I choose to ignore Him, not meaning to I just do. I am always praying about that.

So you are saying that you never sin? Even in your heart or mind? Jesus Matt. 5 says that just lusting after someone is sin, there is no need to commit adultery. He says that being angry with a brother is enough to subject you to judgement, you don't have to murder them. Thoughts are sometimes enough to be sin.

I do all the things you say in your post, daily, starve the flesh, feed the spirit, die to self. I am very satisfied with what God has given me, and thank Him daily for all He has done. The day that I think I am sinless though, I pray that God gives me a wake-up call or takes me to sit at His left hand.

[MrMannn]

I think its a WOF cult/doctrine/heresy thing that we can be sinless.

I think its foolish to make the claim that you're sinless.
or maybe its the sin of PRIDE that seeks to make that claim...

[Eternally]

I know I'm not sinless every day. I'm too mean.. :mmph

[PastWS]

OK please dont mis understand me the Bible is full of symbolic understanding. When Moses and the others were wondering through the desert ,and God was feeding the manna ,this is symbolic to us as we wonder through our desert working through our temptations His Sprit guides us ,Purifing us as also when Jesus walked with His disiples guiding them through all temptations finally when God chose the time the Jews were allowed in to the promissed land as the same the Spirit came inside the disiples meaning sure we will live lives without sin but only when we have been purified by the Spirit of God n He enters our being as the day of Pentacost when such happend G/B

[joyttw]

We are new creations, we have been given the gift of Christ's righteousness and we ARE saints, according to the Word of God. However:

Salvation - Our spirit is totally saved and we are "partakers of the divine nature."

Sanctification - Our soul is being saved, learning to walk in the spirit and not after the flesh (side note: 'sinful nature' is actually a mistranslation in the NIV, the correct term is 'flesh' -- we have a NEW nature, Christ's nature, when we become a new creation, but we still have our flesh).

Redemption - our bodies will be saved in the future.

As long as we are these spiritual beings indwelling 'earthsuits', we will have sin dwelling in our flesh like a parasite ("it is no longer I who sin,but sin which dwells in me -- that is, in my flesh" Paul says). But thanks be to God through Jesus Christ!

"Only let us now live up to what we have already attained." (Phil 3:16 or Heb 10:14??)

[joyttw]

PastWS, the passage in I John 3 that says "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not" is addressed in this thread:

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=273340

(not addressed with the King James though...)

[ifnot4him]

Why wouldnt one do that? With fasting, and prayer it is possible to walk in the Spirit, and be holy, everyday. Temptation is not sin, we will be tempted.

Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

If one is struggling with a particular sin, seek God, lay it at his feet. If you sincerely want to overcome it, the Lord God will give you power to overcome your flesh. I'm not telling you what I've read or heard, I'm telling you what God has done for me. I'm telling you the truth.

We must die to ourselves daily. Starve the flesh, and feed the Spirit, soon those old temptations will not even come to your mind anymore, and the joy of the Holy Ghost will fill you to overflowing.

Gaurd your tongue, and your eyes, be content in all things with thanksgiving to God and you will not covet. Submit yourself to the will of God, and you will be satisfied.


This is true. It is possible to walk in the spirit 24/7. It comes from a desire to let the Lord's will be done in our lives and not our own. The Holy Spirit will convict a person of sin and with his help you are able to let it go if you truly desire to be free from it. It's just an excuse that a lot of people have to keep on sinning......willfully!

May I ask a question to no one in particular? What sin is there in your life that you KNOW is sin and cannot give up? Have you tried? Have you asked God to help you to give it up? There is no sin that you are not able to overcome once you realize it is sin and start dealing with it head on.....with his help. Eventually you will be victorious over it if you are sincere in wanting to get rid of it.

There are obvious sins in a person's life and then there are sins in the heart......our sin nature. Once we get rid of these obvious sins believe me.....the Holy Spirit will start convicting and cleaning up the sins of the heart if we are willing to let him have his way. We should always check our heart and life daily and pray for the Lord to show us our heart the way he sees it because the heart is very wicked because of our sin nature. This could be a looooong process......even lifelong I suppose. When man fell.....we really fell.

It is true that one may slip and sin somehow by thought or deed, but let me tell you that if you are truly being led by the Holy Spirit you will be whipped and convicted of it. Thank God we have an advocate for those times we unwillingly mess up. No, we are not perfect but we can strive for it and with the help of the Holy Spirit we can be well on our way to it when the day comes when we will be. Too many folks just want to hold on to sin willfully and don't want to even try to get rid of it. :tsk

[ifnot4him]

Speaking for no one but myself, I don't think I can, all I can do is try my best and repent when I mess up. Paul didn't seem to think he could either. In Romans 9:14-25 he says, "14. We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspititual, sold as a slave to sin. 15. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16.And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17. As it is, it is no onger I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18. I know that nothing good lives in me that is, inm y sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do- this I keep on doing. 20. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21. So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23. but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my ind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25. Thanks be to God- through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I believe that it's possible to live a sinless life, as Richard G said "through the power of the Holy Ghost" I just don't think it is very probable. He would need to be in control of your life 24/7, the moment He wasn't the devil would be there tempting you.

I heard a preacher say, "How long do you think you can go without sinning? A month, a week? The whole day? A few hours?" Have you had a lewd thought? Lost your temper with someone who cut you off in traffic? Gossiped? Coveting anyones stuff lately? Lied to anyone, even a little tiny lie? Lusting after someone who isn't your husband or wife? For us single folks, lusting after anyone of the oppisite sex? The list goes on and on. Frankly if I am left alone, I can maybe go most of the day, maybe a whole day, just don't get me out in public where other folks are around to bother or tempt me. I don't even want to think about trying for a whole week, much less a month! Praise the Lord! Jesus is a loving forgiving Savior.



Which of these cannot be overcome with the help of the Holy Spirit if you're walking with the Lord daily?

[PastWS]

Family, I pose this question to all that can hear and take it- When Christ returns am I Holy as God has told me to be? "be Holy for I am holy". Is it possible to be holy but still live in sin? Are we not a part of the body of Christ? Would Christ allow anything dirty to enter into His body? All the scripture Ive read n studied through the years though its only been 37 years tells me no it is not a possibility that Christ being without sin would bring sin opon himself.And i proclaim that if youre in continuation of sin then we have not that santification as of yet. But we must strive toward that prize every secound of life n the spirit tells me I will someday live a sinnless life as so dose God . Y do we always say I when we ourselve do nothing its Gods power that heals us from sin n His Spirit whom Guides us toward heaven n a sinless life.Santan has been defeated by Christ we have not a need to go on in sin he has not power over us Jesus has freed us and we must understand that 1st then take hold of that power n walk in to the light out of the darkness santan holds us in because we give him such power to do so in our lives.
I dont know about anyone else but for me ,I want to be ready for that hour and know in my heart I must be free of sin for this to occur .My family I truly love all of you and wish n pray that God reveils this truth to you G/B

[ifnot4him]

:clap :clap :clap

[BlessHisName]

So, PastWS.
1) Are you saying that anyone who still sins is not saved?
2) and are YOU sinless?

I would like to know the answer to these questions too!

[frisian1970]

Add it to the Rapture Index...MrMannn and I agree on something.

[MrMannn]

. Is it possible to be holy but still live in sin? Yes, Romans 8:1


And i proclaim that if youre in continuation of sin then we have not that santification as of yet.
Question: Are you saying, a Christian who sins is NOT filled with the Holy Spirit?
Or was NEVER indwelt of the Holy Spirit in the first place?
Or not even saved?
Please define this statement for us.


Let me repeat:
1) Are you saying that anyone who still sins is not saved?
2) and are YOU sinless?

These are civil questions, I'm asking nicely.
It would be great to get an answer.

[vsi4Jesus]

Family, I pose this question to all that can hear and take it- When Christ returns am I Holy as God has told me to be? "be Holy for I am holy". Is it possible to be holy but still live in sin? Are we not a part of the body of Christ? Would Christ allow anything dirty to enter into His body? All the scripture Ive read n studied through the years though its only been 37 years tells me no it is not a possibility that Christ being without sin would bring sin opon himself.And i proclaim that if youre in continuation of sin then we have not that santification as of yet. But we must strive toward that prize every secound of life n the spirit tells me I will someday live a sinnless life as so dose God . Y do we always say I when we ourselve do nothing its Gods power that heals us from sin n His Spirit whom Guides us toward heaven n a sinless life.Santan has been defeated by Christ we have not a need to go on in sin he has not power over us Jesus has freed us and we must understand that 1st then take hold of that power n walk in to the light out of the darkness santan holds us in because we give him such power to do so in our lives.
I dont know about anyone else but for me ,I want to be ready for that hour and know in my heart I must be free of sin for this to occur .My family I truly love all of you and wish n pray that God reveils this truth to you G/B

So the Holy Spirit actually told you that you will someday live a sinless life? I have been a Christian for over a year now and the first scripture I was given by a member of the church I go to is in Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
I take this scripture to mean that when I was born again the Holy Spirit started doing a good work in me. Which has happened. But the rest of this verse says He (the HS) will continue that work till Jesus comes back. Meaning I will still sin everyday. But the HS will keep doing that work right up until Jesus comes. So there's noway that I can see how someone can be sinless. If someone could be sinless why is that verse in the Bible?

[AnotherOldGuy]

Do we have the right to believe we can live a sinless life?
No. Not until we put on the incorruptible (when our mortal flesh is exchanged for a glorified body). THEN we can live a sinless life.


When Christ returns am I Holy as God has told me to be? "be Holy for I am holy".
"Holy" does not mean 'sinless'. It means sacred, separated.



Is it possible to be holy but still live in sin?
Depends on what you mean by 'live in sin'.

I can be holy and still sin. While in the flesh it is impossible to not sin.

IF however I am in an ongoing state where sin controls my life, then I am not holy. I am not separated from the world.


Would Christ allow anything dirty to enter into His body?
Of course not. Christ continually cleanses us. Remember Peter?


And i proclaim that if youre in continuation of sin then we have not that santification as of yet.
That is not the same as 'living a sinless life'.

[Mommy2KandM]

I think its a WOF cult/doctrine/heresy thing that we can be sinless.


Actually I believe it is a Wesleyan(Protestant denomination) belief, that one can reach a point in life where they can walk with out sin, because of Christ in them.

I don't believe it is attainable in the flesh. I believe it is something to work toward, but will not be achieved until we are made new.

[4everHis]

My thought is no, we humans are not capable of living a sinless life.

Think about it. If a sinless life were an option, then the Lords sacrafice for us was not needed.

Even the saints among us 'sin' in their life to one degree or another.

[Eternally]

pastws!

Its not about us!

We are made white as snow the moment we are transformed into a new creation! We're already ready for Him to come! We are already the Bride waiting for the bridegroom!

Our sins, past present future are covered in His Blood!

This is how we are saved by faith - true saving faith- alone! :rapture

[tomberean]

Only those who have a sinless nature are able to live a sinless life. I know of only one Person who had a sinless nature and was able to live a sinless life - and you all know who that is.

To be holy does not mean to be without sin. Consider the following
"To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy." (1 Corinthians 7:12-14, NIV)
Paul does not say that the children are saved. Had they been saved, he would never have said that they would be unclean if the husband or wife hadn't been sanctified through the believing husband or wife. It simply means that the children are separated unto the Lord through the believing husband and wife. In other words, the children live in a sanctified sphere or realm, if you will, where they are brought much closer to the conviction of the Holy Spirit than, for instance, a Muslim or a Hindu family.

In several places in the OT God says of Israel that she and her city Jerusalem are holy. Does that mean that they are sinless? God chose Israel to be a holy nation unto Himself, separated from the other nations and their idolatrous ways, so that he could fulfill His promise to the world with regard to His redeeming Messiah. All God's children are holy in the sense that they have been separated unto Him (severed from the world system and its ways). if we do not separate ourselves from the world and its ways God regards us as His enemies and udulterers.
"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." (James 4:4, KJV)
Holiness, therefore, simply means to live lives as though we are already in heaven. Does that mean we are sinless or that we are able to become sinless? If we had been sinless the Holy Spirit would never have inspired John to write the following.
" My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" (1 John 2:1, KJV)
God does not want us to sin, but we often do and when that happens we need to go to our Advocate in heaven for the cleansing of those sins. The very fact that we have an Advocate in heaven proves that we are not sinless and cannot possibly live sinless lives. Does that give us a license to sin? Persih the thought. It should inspire us even more to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him.

Tom

[Workman]

Lev 20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I [am] the LORD your God.

God the Father said this because by His Holy Nature cannot say "just be a little bit holy"


Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I
condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


Likewise, God the Son, being full human and fully Divine cannot by His Divine nature say " go and just don't sin as much". We cannot by OUR nature be sinless due to the fall of Adam.

[PastWS]

IItim 3:16-17" All scripture is given by insperation of God ,and is profitable for doctrine,for reproof ,correction,for instruction in righteousness:That the man of God may be PERFECT ,throughly furnished unto all good works".Hebrews13:21 "Make you Perfect in every good work to do his will,working in you which is wellpleasing in his sight through Jesus Christ : to whom be glory for ever and ever Amen"Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be Holy and without blame before him in love"John 1:29 " Behold the Lamb of God ,which taketh away the sin of the world.".

[tomberean]

Lev 20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I [am] the LORD your God.

God the Father said this because by His Holy Nature cannot say "just be a little bit holy"


Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I
condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


Likewise, God the Son, being full human and fully Divine cannot by His Divine nature say " go and just don't sin as much". We cannot by OUR nature be sinless due to the fall of Adam.

How would you explain the meaning of "holy" in 1 Corinthians 7:12-14? Does Paul refer to sinlessness there? If mortal man had the ability to reach sinlessness and was able to say "I am at last completely sinless" he would be a liar because God Himself very clearly says:-
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. " (1 John 1:8-10, KJV)"

The very thought that a saint can become sinless is in itself a sin because it contradicts God's Word. That's why John twice says "the truth is not in us" (his word is not in us). It is a lie and and therefore a serious sin.

Are you suggesting that a saint when he purpotedly becomes sinless that God's nature overules or replaces OUR nature (the old Adam nature)? If that were possible then we needn't ever again deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him which is the very prerequisite that makes us His true disciples and worthy of Him. To have the nature of God is to be like Him in every way - reach godhood. Is that what you are implying?

When Jesus told the woman to "sin no more" he meant that she should shun (stay away from) sin. His very words "SIN NO MORE" proves that there was always a possibility for her to fall into the same kind of sin of which she had been redeemed but that she should no longer allow herself to fall into that sin again. Paul said something similar in 1 Corinthians 10: 12 "Therefore let him who a thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall." Those who think they have reached sinlessness are prone to fall into sin very quickly again.

Tom

[Workman]

How would you explain the meaning of "holy" in 1 Corinthians 7:12-14? Does Paul refer to sinlessness there? If mortal man had the ability to reach sinlessness and was able to say "I am at last completely sinless" he would be a liar because God Himself very clearly says:-
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. " (1 John 1:8-10, KJV)"

I completely agree.

The very thought that a saint can become sinless is in itself a sin because it contradicts God's Word. That's why John twice says "the truth is not in us" (his word is not in us). It is a lie and and therefore a serious sin.

I don't think I wrote that anyone can become sinless.

Are you suggesting that a saint when he purpotedly becomes sinless that God's nature overules or replaces OUR nature (the old Adam nature)? If that were possible then we needn't ever again deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him which is the very prerequisite that makes us His true disciples and worthy of Him. To have the nature of God is to be like Him in every way - reach godhood. Is that what you are implying?

Nope.

When Jesus told the woman to "sin no more" he meant that she should shun (stay away from) sin. His very words "SIN NO MORE" proves that there was always a possibility for her to fall into the same kind of sin of which she had been redeemed but that she should no longer allow herself to fall into that sin again. Paul said something similar in 1 Corinthians 10: 12 "Therefore let him who a thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall." Those who think they have reached sinlessness are prone to fall into sin very quickly again.

Tom

What I was saying is this...We(everyone born) due to our sin nature cannot be sinless.

When Christ told the woman "Sin no more", He meant it. Although He knew she could not. Christ by His DIVINE nature demands perfection. Christ being FULLY GOD cannot say "go and try not to sin". He must demand perfection even though we cannot achieve it.

[PastWS]

Romans 6 "WHAT SHALL WE SAY THEN ? sHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN,THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND?GOD FORBID. HOW SHALLWE,THAT ARE DEAD TO SIN ,LIVE ANY LONGER THEIR IN?KNOW YE NOT ,THAT SO MANY OF USAS WERE BAPTIZED INTO JEUS CHRIST WERE BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH?THEREFORE WE ARE BURRIED WITH HIM BY BAPTIZEM INTO DEATH:THAT AS LIKE CHRIST WAS RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER ,EVEN SO WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.FOR IF WE HAVE BEEN PLANTED TOGETHER IN THE LIKENESS F HIS DEATH,WE SHALL ALSO BE IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS RESSURECTION:KNOWING THIS , THAT OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM,THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DISTOYED,THAT HENCEFORTH WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREE OF SIN. NOW IF WE BE DEAD WITH CHRIST , WE BELIEVE WE SHALL ALSO LIVE WITH HIM:KNOWING THAT CHRIST BEING RAISED FROM THE DEAD DIETH NO MORE:DEATH HATH NO MORE DOMINION OVER HIM:FOR IN THAT HE DIED HE DIED TO SIN ONCE:BUT IN THAT HE LIVETH HE LIVETH UNTO GOD.LIKEWISE RECKON YE ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN BUT ALIVE UNTO GOD THROUGH CHRIST OUR LORD.LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REIGN IN YOUR MORTAL BODY,THAT YE SHOULD OBEY IT IN THE LUST THERE OF.

[Workman]

Romans 6 "WHAT SHALL WE SAY THEN ? sHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN,THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND?GOD FORBID. HOW SHALLWE,THAT ARE DEAD TO SIN ,LIVE ANY LONGER THEIR IN?KNOW YE NOT ,THAT SO MANY OF USAS WERE BAPTIZED INTO JEUS CHRIST WERE BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH?THEREFORE WE ARE BURRIED WITH HIM BY BAPTIZEM INTO DEATH:THAT AS LIKE CHRIST WAS RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER ,EVEN SO WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.FOR IF WE HAVE BEEN PLANTED TOGETHER IN THE LIKENESS F HIS DEATH,WE SHALL ALSO BE IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS RESSURECTION:KNOWING THIS , THAT OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM,THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DISTOYED,THAT HENCEFORTH WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREE OF SIN. NOW IF WE BE DEAD WITH CHRIST , WE BELIEVE WE SHALL ALSO LIVE WITH HIM:KNOWING THAT CHRIST BEING RAISED FROM THE DEAD DIETH NO MORE:DEATH HATH NO MORE DOMINION OVER HIM:FOR IN THAT HE DIED HE DIED TO SIN ONCE:BUT IN THAT HE LIVETH HE LIVETH UNTO GOD.LIKEWISE RECKON YE ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN BUT ALIVE UNTO GOD THROUGH CHRIST OUR LORD.LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REIGN IN YOUR MORTAL BODY,THAT YE SHOULD OBEY IT IN THE LUST THERE OF.


Why are your yelling?

[Ponderin]

Why are your yelling?

hmmmm.

I was wondering the same thing.

[AnotherOldGuy]

LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REIGN IN YOUR MORTAL BODY,THAT YE SHOULD OBEY IT IN THE LUST THERE OF.
Note that Paul does not say "Let not sin exist in your mortal body...".

"Reign" means to rule. Sin is not to rule over us.

[PastWS]

NIETHER YIELD YOUSELVES MEMBERS OF INSTRUMENTS OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS UNTO SIN,BUT YIELD YOURSELVES UNTO GOD,AS THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD,AND YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTUMENTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS UNTO GOD FOR SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU: FOR YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW BUT UNDER GRACE.WHAT THEN ?SHALL WE SIN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW BUT UNDER GRACE?GOD FORBID.KNOW YE NOT THAT TO WHOM YE YIELD YOURSELVES SERVANTS TO OBEY,HIS SERVANTS YE ARE TO WHOM YE OBEY WEATHER OF SIN UNTO DEATH ,OR OF OBEDIANCE UNTORIGHTEOUSNESS?BUT GOD BE THANKED THAT YE WERE SERVANTSA OF SIN BUT YE HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE THAT WAS DELIVERD YOU.BEING THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN , YE BECAME THE SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.I SPEAK AFTER THE MANNER OF MEN BECAUSE OF THE INFIRMINY OF YOURE FLESH FOR AS YE HAVE YIELDED YOURE MEMBERS SERVANTS TO UNCLEANNESS AND UNTO INIQUITY EVEN SO NOW YIELD YOUR MEMBERS SERVANTS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS.FOR WHEN YE WERE THE SERVANTS OF SIN ,YE WERE FREE FROM RIGHTEOUSNESS.WHAT FRUIT HAD YE THENIN THOSE THINGS WHEREOF YE ARE NOW ASHAMED?FOR THE END OF THOSES THINGS IS DEATH.BUT NOW BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN AND BECOME SERVANTS OF GOD YE HAVE YOUR FRUIT UNTO HOLLIENESS AND THE ET THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFETHROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD." i PRAISE GOD FOR GIVING US THE POWER THROUGH OUR LORD CHRIST JESUS TO BE ABLE TO LIVE A SIN FREE LIFE WE MUST USE THIS POWER TO CONFORM TO HIS WISHS N BE HOLY FOR HE IS HOLY!

[PastWS]

N I Concur My Brothern No We Must Not Let Sin Rule Us If We Do Such Then Christ Is Left On The Cross! And Yes Our Hearts Can Be Full Of Joy In Knowing N Using Gods Word N Spirit To Cleans Our Rechet Mortal Bodies Until The Time Comes N We Are Filled With The Holy Spirit Amen

[B A N E]

:wave PastWS
You're done.

[Prodical Son]

Actually I believe it is a Wesleyan(Protestant denomination) belief, that one can reach a point in life where they can walk with out sin, because of Christ in them.

I don't believe it is attainable in the flesh. I believe it is something to work toward, but will not be achieved until we are made new.

I agree with most of this statement. Yes it is unattainable in the flesh, but we are to walk in the Spirit. The bible is clear that once we are saved, and have received the Spirit, we are to walk without sin. It is clear that this can be acheived. The bible is also clear, through the apostle's lives, that this is very difficult, and that they did not acheive this. PASTWS and I disagree on this subject, and have debated it more than once (he is my little brother, and we disagree a lot-lol). Every time we give in to the temptations of the devil, we take a step backwards in our walk. The spirit in us does not grow, until we repent. Does this mean that we who slip up are not saved? No, when i sinned as an unbeliever, i didn't care. It meant nothing. When i fail and sin now, any sin, the Spirit convicts me. I feel horrible about it. That is because the Spirit dwells in me. If the Spirit wasn't in me, if i wasn't saved, i may feel bad depending on what i did, by man's moral code. But now i live by God's moral code. We, who have the Spirit know when we sin now. There are things that we did before we were saved, that at the time we didn't think were 'bad'. Now we know every sin that we commit, the Spirit screams at us, convicts us of it. Does this mean you can say the sinners pray, believe you mean it, and go back and live as the world does? That i'm saved now, so i can do what i want? No, this is a misunderstanding of salvation. Anyone who believes that is deluded, and is most likely not saved. God is loving, forgiving, and mercifull. But God also is also perfect, rightous, without sin. God hates sin. Repent means to change direction, to realize that we have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. To beg God's forgiveness for our trangressions by Christ's blood. Because he paid our punishment for us. We are to strive every second of every day to live without sin. To trust the Spirit, to live the example that Christ left us. He lived a sinless life, we are to follow that example. In the Lord's prayer, he prays 'forgive us our trespassess'. This is an example to us as well of how to pray, not just to be saved but afterwards as well. Notice i Christ also prays 'give us our daily bread'. We are to pray daily, for forgiveness, understanding, growth in the Spirit, and to be delivered from evil. God knows we are weak, which is why he sent us his son to pay the price for our sins. And sent us the Spirit as our teacher, to help us walk without sin. To restrain evil. The blood of Christ saves us, only the blood of Christ, no works that we do can achieve this.

[AnotherOldGuy]

The bible is clear that once we are saved, and have received the Spirit, we are to walk without sin.
No - the bible is clear that Christians are not to be subject to, or ruled over, by sin.


It is clear that this can be acheived.
Wonder why Paul couldn't do it? Hmmm?


The spirit in us does not grow, until we repent.
Huh? The Spirit is not in us until we repent.


Repent means to change direction, to realize that we have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. To beg God's forgiveness for our trangressions by Christ's blood.
Not quite. To repent IS to have a change of mind. We conform our view to that of God. A Christian does not have to "beg God's forgiveness". He has already received it.

[Changes]

I'm afraid that these types of beliefs come from reading only the parts of the Bible that you like.

My God is a God of Love, yes.

My God is a God of Wrath as well.

Some people need to put away their black magic marker & stop blackening out the parts of the Bible that they don't like...

[boxer77]

Family, I pose this question to all that can hear and take it- When Christ returns am I Holy as God has told me to be? "be Holy for I am holy". Is it possible to be holy but still live in sin? Are we not a part of the body of Christ? Would Christ allow anything dirty to enter into His body? All the scripture Ive read n studied through the years though its only been 37 years tells me no it is not a possibility that Christ being without sin would bring sin opon himself.And i proclaim that if youre in continuation of sin then we have not that santification as of yet. But we must strive toward that prize every secound of life n the spirit tells me I will someday live a sinnless life as so dose God . Y do we always say I when we ourselve do nothing its Gods power that heals us from sin n His Spirit whom Guides us toward heaven n a sinless life.Santan has been defeated by Christ we have not a need to go on in sin he has not power over us Jesus has freed us and we must understand that 1st then take hold of that power n walk in to the light out of the darkness santan holds us in because we give him such power to do so in our lives.
I dont know about anyone else but for me ,I want to be ready for that hour and know in my heart I must be free of sin for this to occur .My family I truly love all of you and wish n pray that God reveils this truth to you G/B

Well all of our sin has been forgivin, even the sin that happens after we are born again, so God still sees us as unblemished cause we accepted His Son JEsus Christ. So we may know we sin, but it is forgivin and as white as snow, its already forgotten, God sees all bornagain believers as Holy cause we are saved thru His Son Jesus who was Holy. We are not divine, but we are of the vine:D:

[Prodical Son]

PastWS is banned, that is sad. I introduced him to this site. He is young in his walk, and very zealous for the ways of the Lord. He has a hard time understanding how anyone that the spirit dwells in, could sin, including himself. He believes that any who believes in Christ but sins, doesn't he the spirit in him, but the spirit is beside him instead. He comes across as judgemental, i believe he being convicted by the spirit himself. As i said he and i disagree on this subject, and have argued over it, twice today. I told him by his standards that heaven will be empty, except for God, the Son, the Spirit, and the angels. He gets something in his head, and is stubborn. He takes some scripture, but not in context with all scripture. As i said he is stubborn. I pray that God gives him a better understanding.

[Rainbo2]

PastWS is banned, that is sad. I introduced him to this site. He is young in his walk, and very zealous for the ways of the Lord. He has a hard time understanding how anyone that the spirit dwells in, could sin, including himself. He believes that any who believes in Christ but sins, doesn't he the spirit in him, but the spirit is beside him instead. He comes across as judgemental, i believe he being convicted by the spirit himself. As i said he and i disagree on this subject, and have argued over it, twice today. I told him by his standards that heaven will be empty, except for God, the Son, the Spirit, and the angels. He gets something in his head, and is stubborn. He takes some scripture, but not in context with all scripture. As i said he is stubborn. I pray that God gives him a better understanding.

Prodical Son, I'll be keeping your brother in my prayers. May he come to a better understanding of the gospel

[MrMannn]

Well next time, advise him that on a discussion board, unusual theology like his will be critically examined. On any public board expect questions to be asked. Answer them! Don't just sit there as the one true font of enlightenment...give and take...question and answer.

Tell him to treat this as a learning experience. This disagreement came from believers-fellow saints.
If he cant have a civil discourse with us, how can he be expected to reach the unsaved? Or even be trusted to teach?

[Prodical Son]

Well next time, advise him that on a discussion board, unusual theology like his will be critically examined. On any public board expect questions to be asked. Answer them! Don't just sit there as the one true font of enlightenment...give and take...question and answer.

Tell him to treat this as a learning experience. This disagreement came from believers-fellow saints.
If he cant have a civil discourse with us, how can he be expected to reach the unsaved? Or even be trusted to teach?
Woe, relax i already stated i didn't agree with him. Don't take it out on me. Thats being as judgemental as he was. I made my opinions on the subject know in my first reply. I'm not responsible for his opinions. As for his answering questions, i pointed that out. And before he ever posted i told him to read all replies. He said that he was trying to type a whole chapter, hunt and peck, and didn't see them because he was they came as he was writing. It took him over an hour. I type slow but him...He also said that he stated stated his opinions with scripture because that was the word of God and his words are just his words. I on the other hand, believe its all right to express your opinions in your own words, if your feel led by the spirit and back it up with scripture in broader context with all scripture on the matter. He now tells me, what he meant was, not that a christian who slips up and sins is not saved, but those who continually walk in sin cannot be of the spirit. That we will not achieve 'sinless perfection', but that it is possible, and we are to strive for it. He said he got the question and responces from a sermon by John Westly. Thats a little closer to my opinion.

[MrMannn]

I wasn't yelling at you. I was giving feedback to PastWS.
If I came across as judgemental towards you, I'm sorry. Though I stand by my words.

Sorry. Your friend just needs to mature a bit more.

[Moony2ns]

Since PastWS is not able to respond, I am going to close this thread. He can contact the admin team personally if he wishes to explain, but from here on out, it will be handled privately.