Purgatory?? / What If You've Never Heard Of Jesus? {MERGED}

[bergie37]

Hi all,

Please forgive me if I am posting this on the wrong board. But there is something eating away at me and I HAVE TO KNOW about this! (If anyone can help me that is)

My grandmother (through marriage) died about 3 yrs ago. She was very old. She was catholic. She was saying at the end something about people giving the church some money for her to be healed? Then said something about maybe going to purgatory. Ugh...

Ok so......heres my question. If she NEVER had someone witness the truth to her, If she NEVER recieved Jesus' gift of salvation--due to being raised strict catholic, DID SHE GO TO HELL? (I know, I know. None of us know really) But how is it that persons fault if ALL THEY KNEW was ...for instance..Catholicism? I'm so confused and sad! I hate this. :sad

[Gordon b]

If she NEVER recieved Jesus' gift of salvation I am not going to state the obvious answer to that.
Don't assume she didn't accept Christ on the basis of faulty teaching.

[Adicom]

Hi all,

Please forgive me if I am posting this on the wrong board. But there is something eating away at me and I HAVE TO KNOW about this! (If anyone can help me that is)

My grandmother (through marriage) died about 3 yrs ago. She was very old. She was catholic. She was saying at the end something about people giving the church some money for her to be healed? Then said something about maybe going to purgatory. Ugh...

Ok so......heres my question. If she NEVER had someone witness the truth to her, If she NEVER recieved Jesus' gift of salvation--due to being raised strict catholic, DID SHE GO TO HELL? (I know, I know. None of us know really) But how is it that persons fault if ALL THEY KNEW was ...for instance..Catholicism? I'm so confused and sad! I hate this. :sad


I agree with Gordon B. Do not assume that she did not believe. All that is needed is baby faith to be with Jesus.

Romans 10:9 (New International Version)
9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

This gives plenty of room for Catholics, even with all of the "Stuff" they add. :):

[bergie37]

Well, I appreciate what you both said. However I think I may have worded it wrong. Lets ASSUME she was never shown Jesus' gift of salvation, or had it taught to her..........How is that her fault? And honestly, I am not trying to stir up anything. It just seems when I think I understand something, something else pops into my head :sigh

[bergie37]

I got that question while scrolling the posts just a few minutes ago and I thought.. "yes!! thats what my post meant regarding my grandma.." Anyway, I guess that is my question over all. Well that AND what if you are raised in a household that knew about Jesus, but were never taught about his gift of salvation??:confused

[carmen]

These seem to be addressing the same question, though perhaps from a little different angle, so I've merged them to reduce any confusion.

The bible tells us that all men have enough knowledge of God that they are without excuse. It also says that those that do not accept salvation through Christ are condemned. There is no way around those two things, scripturally, except that we know that God also tells us that those that seek, find. That He knocks, and waits for someone to open the door. That His eyes range through the Earth, looking for the righteous. Given those verses, I believe that God has obligated Himself to reveal enough of Himself to anyone that seeks Him. God does, of course, draw people to Himself. If it were not for that drawing, no one would be able to come. But we still have to choose to accept it. I would not say that your grandmother died without accepting Christ, because we never know what may have occurred before someone passes away. All I know to lay out is what scripture tells us about salvation and leave it in the capable, just, loving, and merciful hands of the One that died for all.

:hug

[Adicom]

Well, I appreciate what you both said. However I think I may have worded it wrong. Lets ASSUME she was never shown Jesus' gift of salvation, or had it taught to her..........How is that her fault? And honestly, I am not trying to stir up anything. It just seems when I think I understand something, something else pops into my head :sigh


Well,

That is a little different. Carmen has put it so well. I would add that God's asks us to live up to the light that we have. IE: To whom much is given much is required. Do you really think she lived here in the US for many years, went to Church and never heard the Gospel? Even the Catholic Church can give enough of the Gospel for someone to have a "Baby Faith" if that someone is truly searching. Well by God's Grace perhaps she really is saved. I am praying for you to have God's peace and Grace in your heart about this. :):

[Rainbo2]

Bergie37, I grew up Catholic as did all my family and I knew and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior because that is what the Catholic church taught. The thing with Catholocism is that they add a bunch of man made rules and they do not really teach much, so a person doesn't grow as a christian very much in a Catholic church. My question is that why don't you think your Grandmother knew Jesus?

I do agree with Carmen, I just don't think it is possible to go through life in the U.S. and go to a christian church, even it is Catholic and not know about Jesus.

[Jany]

I do agree with Carmen, I just don't think it is possible to go through life in the U.S. and go to a christian church, even it is Catholic and not know about Jesus.[ Oh yes it is!! <><

[carmen]

From some of the sermons I have heard, I think it is entirely possible to go to church, hear the name of Jesus, but never hear the gospel. Few pastors today are preaching things they--or their congregations--would view as "negative" from the bible. Positive messages seem to the be rage. But the bible teaches both positives and negatives. Sin and the need for repentance are both considered negative, but an understanding of both is required for the gospel message. There's nothing wrong with a positive biblical sermon, but need the rest of the word too, and I just think that today, we aren't getting both sides the way we used to :(:

[HeIsEnough]

Hey guys, gals.

I believe it is entirely possible to hear the gospel, and not 'hear' the gospel. Most everyone in the US has heard John 3:16, and related verses. That is the gospel. Most may not respond, but it is not for lack of 'hearing with the ear', but lack of 'hearing with the heart'. Those who love God, hear Him.


John 14:23-24

Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

As difficult as it is to believe, many have heard the message over and over, yet they do not respond, because they do not love God. It doesn't mean we stop preaching the message, it just means that not everyone will respond by just hearing the message with their ears.

[bopeep1909]

Almost every Catholic I have talked to at work(one is an exception who is a devout Christian)do not know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Many say they are recovering Catholics and have given up religion totally.Many say it was only the motions they went through as a child and had to go to church every Sunday or else.Some have said they were raised Catholic and are now staying far far away from religion and church.I am not getting a good feeling about the Catholic religion at all.Many,many people who were brought up as Catholic seem to really be turned of to religion.<><

[sracer]

Almost every Catholic I have talked to at work(one is an exception who is a devout Christian)do not know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Many say they are recovering Catholics and have given up religion totally.Many say it was only the motions they went through as a child and had to go to church every Sunday or else.Some have said they were raised Catholic and are now staying far far away from religion and church.I am not getting a good feeling about the Catholic religion at all.Many,many people who were brought up as Catholic seem to really be turned of to religion.<><

bopeep, that is unfortunately the truth. Catholics do not believe that Jesus' suffering, death, and resurrection are sufficient payment for their sins. They do not believe that they can go directly to Jesus as their intercessor to God the Father. They believe that Mary is the intercessor to Jesus, who in turn is the intercedes to the Father. (That is why there are corporate prayers to Mary but none to Jesus) They pray to patron Saints according to their specific needs. They believe that God's Grace is dispensed through the Catholic Sacrements...and that the gifts of God's Holy Spirit are no longer being dispensed.

The hard cold reality is that many of the Catholic laity don't know Jesus. I do not say this with any joy or smugness. My dear departed grandparents with whom I was very close with all of my life were Catholics. By any reasonable measure, they didn't know the Lord. It saddens me that I won't see them in Heaven. But my emotional desire to see them in Heaven cannot contradict what God's Word says. :(:

My parents remain in the Catholic Church. They too have not accepted Jesus as their Savior.

Carmen is absolutely spot on. Those who do seek, find. Just as I was reborn in the Catholic Church many years ago, but only relatively recently learned that I could have a personal relationship with the Lord... directly with Him without the need for a priest or anyone else in between... that I could read God's Word and understand it... without the need to attend years of seminary. That I didn't have to go through life burdened with guilt, that I was unworthy and wondering how God could love me.

I have a heart for all Catholics... those who are not saved but think that they are on track to spending eternity with the Lord. ...and with those are ARE saved, but are burdened with the unnecessary manmade legalism that steals their joy, plagues them with guilt, and hampers their service to the Lord.

For those saved Catholics, Catholicism is like wearing ankle-weights when running a marathon... completely unnecessary.

[Dear2HIM]

bopeep, that is unfortunately the truth. Catholics do not believe that Jesus' suffering, death, and resurrection are sufficient payment for their sins. They do not believe that they can go directly to Jesus as their intercessor to God the Father. They believe that Mary is the intercessor to Jesus, who in turn is the intercedes to the Father. (That is why there are corporate prayers to Mary but none to Jesus) They pray to patron Saints according to their specific needs. They believe that God's Grace is dispensed through the Catholic Sacrements...and that the gifts of God's Holy Spirit are no longer being dispensed.

The hard cold reality is that many of the Catholic laity don't know Jesus. I do not say this with any joy or smugness. My dear departed grandparents with whom I was very close with all of my life were Catholics. By any reasonable measure, they didn't know the Lord. It saddens me that I won't see them in Heaven. But my emotional desire to see them in Heaven cannot contradict what God's Word says. :(:

My parents remain in the Catholic Church. They too have not accepted Jesus as their Savior.

Carmen is absolutely spot on. Those who do seek, find. Just as I was reborn in the Catholic Church many years ago, but only relatively recently learned that I could have a personal relationship with the Lord... directly with Him without the need for a priest or anyone else in between... that I could read God's Word and understand it... without the need to attend years of seminary. That I didn't have to go through life burdened with guilt, that I was unworthy and wondering how God could love me.

I have a heart for all Catholics... those who are not saved but think that they are on track to spending eternity with the Lord. ...and with those are ARE saved, but are burdened with the unnecessary manmade legalism that steals their joy, plagues them with guilt, and hampers their service to the Lord.

For those saved Catholics, Catholicism is like wearing ankle-weights when running a marathon... completely unnecessary.

This was very well written, and my heart feels the same ache. Not only Catholics, but many of us are wearing theose ankle-weights. Great post, thanks for sharing it.