The Bible On Revealing Clothes

[Blessedx4]

Uh this is one of my pet peeves too. In my church was a girl that wore dresses so tight and so short- to church- she couldn't' move without showing something. It drove me crazy. These aren't the unsaved masses, which is a whole nother issue, these are people who profess Jesus as Lord. Personally I agree with this lady and I'm from the halter top/hip-hugger generation of the 70's. But I WOULD NOT wear a halter-top or hip huggers to church. I felt it was sacrilegious. I put on a dress to my knees and up to my neck (no cleavage). Man have times changed.

Marsha West

The church I attend once held service outdoors during the summer. Not anymore. The reason given by our pastor—with no apology—is the “inappropriate way people dress.” When it’s hot outside some people show up pretty much undressed, and I am not prone to exaggeration. Women attend services dressed in short shorts, low-cut clingy tops, or crops. In some cases skintight low-rider jeans are worn as low as they go so that permanent artwork (tattoos) etched into backs and hips can be viewed by all. Excuse my bluntness, ladies, but exposing your butt crack in church is unacceptable, even if you’re sporting a Rembrandt across your back.
“Outfits are immodest,” says Stephanie Martin, “if they create greater interest in the wearer by potential sexual partners, make members of the same sex more conscious of their physical inadequacies, and are worn to attract attention to one's body.”

The male species does their share to attract attention, too. The younger guys show up in pants worn so low that six inches of their boxer shorts are exposed. If that’s not bad enough, they wear t-shirts emblazoned with logos that promote everything from grunge to gangsta rap to heavy metal bands like Exodus, a group that topped the charts with Shovel Headed Kill Machine. What sort of message does this send? Is a grunge t-shirt appropriate to wear in God’s house? And don’t give me that “Come just as you are” excuse that pastors offer when you broach the subject of inappropriate church apparel. A lot of these kids come from Christian homes! Many of them profess to be Christians themselves. Will someone please tell them that we serve a holy God! Parents, are you listening?

more..... http://www.sierratimes.com/06/07/16/West.htm

[MrMannn]

I thought this was about plumbers...

[markofthebest]

I don't worry about what folks wear to church. I just thankful they are at church. If I'm focusing on those around me, I'm not focusing on God...and that's on ME, not someones clothes. Satan sends all kind of distractions and he would love for us to care more about clothes then souls.....if we can't focus on Him in church we'll have a bigger problem when we're out in the world. We purposely attend a church where the pastors wear jeans and polos instead of suits and where the offering is taken by kids with pink mohawks. BTW, the pink mohawks just had two friends baptised last Sunday. The church I grew up in would have run these kids off for their hair and clothes. Somehow I don't think Jesus would have.

[Blessedx4]

The same God laid out dress code for church in places like Corinthians and told us to be holy because He is Holy. He hasn't changed

Churches are not teaching holiness (sanctification) or being set apart for God's use anymore which is the root of this problem.

We might live in this world but we're suppose to be set apart not "fitting in" - that's the way it's suppose to be

[markofthebest]

I had "church clothes" when I was growing up. My little friend, Jerri, who was very poor, did not. She was not allowed to accept clothes from anyone. She came in ragged dirty pants (before girls were allowed to wear pants to church). The Sunday School teacher felt the need to correct her one Sunday. She went home crying and her parents never allowed her to attend again. The day I turned 18 I stopped having "church only" clothes. I am a Believer, and as such, if God has an issue with my church clothes he'll let me know. I agree there are inappropriate clothes worn to church, but they don't bother ME if I keep MY eyes on Jesus and not the rest of the congregation. BTW, little Jerri still does not attend church (35 years later) and she's a succussful Exe with Delta who can wear whatever she wants. That SS teacher's words are still at work today, and they didn't teach that child anything holy.

[Medic911]

I've never really been distracted by a smutty garb. I struggle with lust just like the next guy, but I think that a modestly-dressed girl is far more attractive than an under-dressed one, and therefore I can be distracted just as easily by a pretty face, as I can by a low-cut dress. (Which of course isn't the girl's fault!)

I never understood the guys who oogle a girl because she has revealing clothes on. I know it's just personal taste, but it's always been a big turn-off to me. :sigh

[vhowell]

I agree with Blessedx4. Even if you wear shorts to church they should be of a fairly decent length. I see some girls showing up for church basically dressed in underwear. You can dress for attention, but you should do that another time. I go to church to pay attention (worship) the Lord and not seek attention for myself.

Call me old fashioned, I guess. If you want to dress that way, fine, but keep it out of the house of the Lord. Have some respect for Him. My long-haired teenage son dresses radical most of the time, but not on Sunday morning. It's a matter of respect, and he is ok with that.

[buzzardhut]

And no whale tails!

[James 1:22]

I thought this was about plumbers
rofl

[Blessedx4]

I had "church clothes" when I was growing up. My little friend, Jerri, who was very poor, did not. She was not allowed to accept clothes from anyone. She came in ragged dirty pants (before girls were allowed to wear pants to church). The Sunday School teacher felt the need to correct her one Sunday. She went home crying and her parents never allowed her to attend again. The day I turned 18 I stopped having "church only" clothes. I am a Believer, and as such, if God has an issue with my church clothes he'll let me know. I agree there are inappropriate clothes worn to church, but they don't bother ME if I keep MY eyes on Jesus and not the rest of the congregation. BTW, little Jerri still does not attend church (35 years later) and she's a succussful Exe with Delta who can wear whatever she wants. That SS teacher's words are still at work today, and they didn't teach that child anything holy.
I'm not talking about poverty, I'm talking about girls who deliberatly wear things like see through dresses and tops to church. Please don't turn this into a poor vs rich argument because I'm not talking about those who can't help it.

The girl I'm talking about lived in a $200,000 home, drove a sports car (at 17 years old) and came to church looking like a prostitute.

We have a choice in how we want to present ourselves to the world as Christians.

PS how can we, on the one hand, present Christianity which gives women dignity and self esteem and on the other not think anything about women looking like prostitutes? :confused

[FishandHunt]

It's called having respect for the house of God - modesty and all that! Come on! People dress like it's time for a picnic, leave their cell phones on, talk to friends sitting next to them all through service...

Dress and act like Christ is sitting right next to you, because He is!

[Blessedx4]

our night services are usually more casual so I don't have problems with t-shirts and blue jeans as I do some of the other things. It doesn't even bother me for Sunday services, as long as they're clean, and cover the necessary parts of our bodies. But we should be teaching our young people to have some self-respect for themselves and for being in God's house.

Mabe it's no wonder that one of the first thing God does when he takes us away from here is give us new clothes ;): :lol

[markofthebest]

I don't disagree that there are inappropriate clothes worn to church. And I think some people dress immodestly just to be seen. I also think the Muslims and the Amish dress to "be seen"........as "religious" and more "holy." I also think, and it's just my humble opinion, that there are more important things that the church should be worried about right now. Again, if your eyes are on Christ during worship, you won't be caring what your neighbor is wearing.

I just have to add...My DH walked by as I was reading this and he had to sit down on the floor he was laughing so hard at the thread title. Nice wording there Blessed!!!

[PlentyGroovy]

What I've noticed is the clothing gets less sexy the longer they attend from when they join, it's like the holy spirit speaks to them on it.

[Blessedx4]

Well I can't take credit for the title. I hate to change the titles because it's someone elses

(btw not sure how the mods feel about it though) :peep :fear

[OnlyHis]

I agree with you Blessedx4. I hate these low riding jeans and pants. I have gone to church where girls where skirts so short they look like they're wearing long shirts! I think you should be more modest in church and out of it. If you don't have a dress to wear, then wear pants, no problem with that, but don't wear them so tight and so low cut. I have no interest in seeing anyone's backside, tatoos or no tatoos. You don't have to be rich to go to church. If you do then you're in the wrong church. You can still dress modest and be poor. I do it everyday.

One thing that I don't like about low cut jeans, hiphuggers, or whatever you call them. And this is my opinion only. I think they make girls look fat. Sorry, but it pushes up their bellies so much they look chunky. Unless you're super model thin. And I am not prejudice against overweight people. I am very overweight. I wouldn't be caught dead in them. LOL!!! But if I did, that might kill the fashion and they'd go back to the way jeans used to be. :):

[ZeroHour]

I thought this was about plumbers...


Scheeshhhhhhhhhhhhhh :doh :pound

[buzzardhut]

:heh

[watching4him]

I also believe when you go to church that you & your child(ren) should dress appropriately. I don't care to see girls with short skirts or tops that just cover on, or guys with their jeans hanging doen showing off their underware. My dh hubby's father who retired a few years ago from the ministry has a saying that dh & I use also. "Looks like they threw on & just about missed." Even when our oldest came back from a visit with my mil & fil, they had when out shopping & found a really cute dress. She wore it to church & my dear mil threw in the wash, when she pulled it out it had shrunk. DH's oldest sister told them it wasn't too short,both my in-laws felt it was too short.When they brought dd1 home, my mil told me what happened. The following Sunday out comes dd1 from her room dressed for church in you guessed it the too short dress. The hem just about 2-inches pass her bottom, I though dh was going to stroke. He told she could not wear that dress any where, to go & find something else to wear to church. As parents we need to make sure our children wear clothes that are appropriate not only to church, but out in the world.

[kittykatjg]

I am always amazed at some of the things people think are appropriate to wear to church... among the things you all have already discussed, today I saw a young woman walk into my church wearing a rhinestone crown! :confused It looked like she just won a beauty pageant... it wasn't one of those little kid "princess" tiaras, but a full blown rhinestone crown! :twitch

[Lorren]

We just talked about it today in Sunday school... I taught the kids to wear their nice clothes to church, wash them before they come to church, but don't make fun of kids because they didn't have a tie or they wore the same thing every week because that might be all that they have.

[Alancj]

snip...
PS how can we, on the one hand, present Christianity which gives women dignity and self esteem and on the other not think anything about women looking like prostitutes? :confused

I just wanted to note that promoting "self esteem" is not a biblical thing to do... It should be GOD esteem, not self esteem. People already love themselves enough, which is what Jesus implies when he says "love your neighbor as yourself." That is the major problem of all humanity, they love themselves too much, and their neighbor too little. Their “self-esteem” is high, which keeps them from thinking they need salvation or from appreciating God’s sacrifice. The amazing thing about Jesus dying for our sins is not that we were worth it… but that he died to save worthless people. Now, THAT is Love. It wouldn’t be love if he got a good deal. The whole thing that people DON’T love themselves enough is just a creation of god-hating psychologists. Unfortunately that false teaching has been embraced by the modern church.

Of course there is nothing wrong with teaching girls that they don't need to live and breathe for attracting men, and so don't need to dress like prostitutes. The underlying problem is that of wanting attention and using their bodies to get it. But a self-esteem teaching is not a biblical way to deal with it.

-Alan

[watching4him]

Something I remember from when I was a child at church. One of the ladies from another church was given permission by the parents to bring two little girls. These little girls only had the clothes on their back(no joke) when they came to camp. Evey night they would dress in t-shirts that someone had brought to them. The saddest part was the fact they were in a very abusive home. Dad went out drinking every night, one night he came home & decided to shave the head of dd1, I mean this child had no hair. The next night while he was outing drinking, mom decided to do the same to dd2. Some of the other children made fun of these girls away from the adults. Years later dd1 died in a car accident due to being drunk,dd2 also began to drink too much. There dresses at the time were not the best but they covered them, but they were very thin. When I think how they were treated by some of the others at camp my heart breaks. The lady who tried to help them, was pushed away by the family. Those of us who tried to reach out to these girls as children, are broken hearted that they never were given the chance again by the parents to back go to church. I don't know if mom & dad felt the girls weren't accepted because of their dresses. Or they just wanted to continue to make their lives unbearable. I just hope that at some piont they (girls)remembered the love that so many of the adults tried to extend to them in the name of Jesus. I don't know if dd2 is still living, but if she is I just pray that if she hasn't made Jesus the Lord of her life that she will & before it's too late.

[Alancj]

This is off topic, but could someone explain the meaning of dd and dh? I can guess the dd1 and dd2 thing must have meant daughter 1 and 2 but what about dh that I hear so often? I'm at a loss for the funny abbreviation. Thanks.

[poetess]

I have known more than one person who was "corrected" in church about their appearance, and never went back again. Yes, christians should be modestly dressed...but dont assume that everyone that goes to church is a christian. If a hooker will come to church, I dont care what she is, or isnt wearing....however, if someone is truely a christian then we should follow the biblical guidelines for correction (a godly woman should talk to the woman outside of church, and express her concerns in a loving way). What we dont need to be doing is talking about her (or him) behind their backs, or pointing fingers.

[rdy4takeoff]

Hi all,
I am spending more time with the fam. and I check RR for a few minutes a day and I saw this post and I just have to say something if I offend someone I am sorry. My youngest went to church with me and a young woman with a low cut top was in front of us and my little guy even knew it was not right and said real loud in front of everyone "WHy did that woman come to church with her boobies hanging out?""Mom let her borrow your sweater." I have personally seen two marriages at my church break up and it all started with men being enticed by women wearing revealing clothes. I heard a pastor once tell single women that were dressing this way "This is not a club don't dress like you are coming to one" And he also said married women who are doing this is the worse. He said "If your house isn't for sell get the sign out of your yard"

[toddlemom]

Mom of 2 boys and a girl here ... I think the girls are out of the love walk to dress so tackily that it distracts the boys. (Not to mention styles now are very unflattering to most female bods ...) Right now DD thinks "Ewww!" about some of the supposedly stylish things. Our school has a dress code, which is nice, because in this situation the school backs up the parents.

YSIC
Ann

[Blessedx4]

I have known more than one person who was "corrected" in church about their appearance, and never went back again. Yes, christians should be modestly dressed...but dont assume that everyone that goes to church is a christian. If a hooker will come to church, I dont care what she is, or isnt wearing....however, if someone is truely a christian then we should follow the biblical guidelines for correction (a godly woman should talk to the woman outside of church, and express her concerns in a loving way). What we dont need to be doing is talking about her (or him) behind their backs, or pointing fingers.
I have personally said twice that I was talking about Christians and not unbelievers. The article is about Christians and the way they dress. Just wanted to clarify that again.

[mom of 4]

I think this is a subject of "treading lightly and gently". I can't quite understand the comments of women dressed scatily leading men astray and breaking marriages up. If those marriages were so easily broken, it could happen anywhere, not just church. Secondly, we can not place the blame on women for those poor men and their roving eyes. That said:

A mature christian will most likely dress appropriately to church. (However, there will always be someone who still thinks they are not dressed appropriatly! "Oh, my! Did you see that her sleeves only cover_____!") It is clearly an idenifying mark of someone who has not matured if they are dressing inaprropriately. The problem is not in their dress,(which so many will accuse of them of), but in their relationship with Christ. So, instead of pointing out the symptom, and give them a bandage, we need to help them find the cure. It will so no good to point out their lack of clothes, if they have no desire to please God. It will only discourage them, and like another poster said, push them away from church and God. Their problem is not in their nakedness, but in their realization of their nakedness. Instead of introducing them to clothing, we need to truly introduce them to Christ. They may know church, but not God. As mature Christians, we should have mastered our "roving eyes". We should be disiplined enough that we see the person, and not their clothing. Are our eyes on Jesus, or on Mrs. Smiths short skirt? Who do you first see when you enter in to worship? Are you so easily distracted? Lets be gentle ecouragers, and not pushers of "what is right and appropriate in church" . I know that acceptance and unconditional love can change a heart much faster than anything. Lets keep our eyes on what is important, Bringing souls to Christ. Not, being the wardrobe police.

[rdy4takeoff]

Yes it can happen anywhere but I have seen this happen. A lonley woman Church goer finds another womans man attractive. They are both on the church board. They go to another state as a group for a conference. She takes the opprotunity to flirt and flaunt herself. The man is going through a midlife crisis and these advances from a younger woman entices him. So she starts wearing even more revealing attire.Next thing that happens is divorce. Yes a christian man should have better control. But some men have problems when it comes to things like this. Men are visual creatures where women are sexually stimulated mentally. Like I said it can happen anywhere but if the woman is suppose to be christian she should know better also. People seem to think just because a man is christian and married he should be immune to such advance but we are all sinners and can fall into sin. It dosent help when there are women who need attention so badly they do not care who they offend or hurt in the process of soothing their own egos. I am just saying Church is not the place to dress like you are at a bar or something. No one is there to see what you look like if they are there for the right reasons they are there for Jesus. Church is not suppose to be a beauty competition or a social club or to make buisness contacts or a popularity contest. Church is for fellowship and the praise of God. And yes I do agree that if they are there and they are new and do not know any better thats fine at least they are at church but I am talking about the ones who have learned Gods words for years and still wont stop dressing like that. It should be common sense not come to church dress like that. Sorry I ranted:redface

[ifnot4him]

I think this is a subject of "treading lightly and gently". I can't quite understand the comments of women dressed scatily leading men astray and breaking marriages up. If those marriages were so easily broken, it could happen anywhere, not just church. Secondly, we can not place the blame on women for those poor men and their roving eyes. That said:

A mature christian will most likely dress appropriately to church. (However, there will always be someone who still thinks they are not dressed appropriatly! "Oh, my! Did you see that her sleeves only cover_____!") It is clearly an idenifying mark of someone who has not matured if they are dressing inaprropriately. The problem is not in their dress,(which so many will accuse of them of), but in their relationship with Christ. So, instead of pointing out the symptom, and give them a bandage, we need to help them find the cure. It will so no good to point out their lack of clothes, if they have no desire to please God. It will only discourage them, and like another poster said, push them away from church and God. Their problem is not in their nakedness, but in their realization of their nakedness. Instead of introducing them to clothing, we need to truly introduce them to Christ. They may know church, but not God. As mature Christians, we should have mastered our "roving eyes". We should be disiplined enough that we see the person, and not their clothing. Are our eyes on Jesus, or on Mrs. Smiths short skirt? Who do you first see when you enter in to worship? Are you so easily distracted? Lets be gentle ecouragers, and not pushers of "what is right and appropriate in church" . I know that acceptance and unconditional love can change a heart much faster than anything. Lets keep our eyes on what is important, Bringing souls to Christ. Not, being the wardrobe police.


:nod

[Alancj]

I think this is a subject of "treading lightly and gently". I can't quite understand the comments of women dressed scatily leading men astray and breaking marriages up. If those marriages were so easily broken, it could happen anywhere, not just church. Secondly, we can not place the blame on women for those poor men and their roving eyes. That said:

A mature christian will most likely dress appropriately to church. (However, there will always be someone who still thinks they are not dressed appropriatly! "Oh, my! Did you see that her sleeves only cover_____!") It is clearly an idenifying mark of someone who has not matured if they are dressing inaprropriately. The problem is not in their dress,(which so many will accuse of them of), but in their relationship with Christ. So, instead of pointing out the symptom, and give them a bandage, we need to help them find the cure. It will so no good to point out their lack of clothes, if they have no desire to please God. It will only discourage them, and like another poster said, push them away from church and God. Their problem is not in their nakedness, but in their realization of their nakedness. Instead of introducing them to clothing, we need to truly introduce them to Christ. They may know church, but not God. As mature Christians, we should have mastered our "roving eyes". We should be disiplined enough that we see the person, and not their clothing. Are our eyes on Jesus, or on Mrs. Smiths short skirt? Who do you first see when you enter in to worship? Are you so easily distracted? Lets be gentle ecouragers, and not pushers of "what is right and appropriate in church" . I know that acceptance and unconditional love can change a heart much faster than anything. Lets keep our eyes on what is important, Bringing souls to Christ. Not, being the wardrobe police.


Not everyone in church is a mature Christian. The last place you want to be tempted is when you are trying to worship God. It's not as if you don't see the same things anywhere else but the last place it should be is in church. They wear those things because they don't know that it is inappropriate, and they need to know what their mom should have told them long ago. They could have a great relationship with Christ and still not understand the implications of their clothes. I think some girls are just plain naive about what they do or don't wear.

-Alan

[Writesinme]

To those who have said that some of today's revealing styles make girls/women look fat: maybe you've hit on the solution! With today's obsession with thinness and flaunting what you've got, just tell 'em they look fat. And send the same message to trashy stars who influence these girls. Maybe they'll cover up some.

Personally--blue jeans or granny dresses in church are fine with me. Casual or all dressed for Sunday-go-to-meetin', I'm good with that, too. As long as a person uses good taste, I have no problem.

My children go to public school--girls can't wear skirts shorter than a certain length, boys can't have their boxers in plain view. Most work places have dress codes and standards, too. You've got no business wearing to church what you can't wear to school or work. Church is no place for a free peep show.

A good rule I was taught to use: dress as though Jesus were your escort. Ask yourself if HE'd be ashamed to be seen with you.

As for parents who defend their daughter's right to dress like street walkers, wake up. The Bible says women are to dress modestly. I don't think this means we button up to our necks and hide our knees, but again--it's all about using good taste.

[huggybob46]

I'm not talking about poverty, I'm talking about girls who deliberatly wear things like see through dresses and tops to church. Please don't turn this into a poor vs rich argument because I'm not talking about those who can't help it.

The girl I'm talking about lived in a $200,000 home, drove a sports car (at 17 years old) and came to church looking like a prostitute.

We have a choice in how we want to present ourselves to the world as Christians.

PS how can we, on the one hand, present Christianity which gives women dignity and self esteem and on the other not think anything about women looking like prostitutes? :confused



And by the way, it's not just the girls that are dressing inappropriately. What about the guys that come in muscle shirts (a much more skimpy version of the tank top), and/or jeans that are so tight that it emphasizes a certain part of their anatomy?? That is simply outrageous, and any man who dresses like that should be confronted by the pastor, just like a girl or woman who is "dressed to kill" should be. I'm a man, but I would never want to dress in a way that would stumble my sisters. If someone works out at the gym 5 days a week, and has great muscles, fine, but show them off to your girlfriend or wife when you are AWAY FROM CHURCH. Don't go showing off AT church. As said by others in this thread, it's disrespectful to the Lord, not to mention to your fellow parishioners!!!

:yell :ponder

[huggybob46]

I don't disagree that there are inappropriate clothes worn to church. And I think some people dress immodestly just to be seen. I also think the Muslims and the Amish dress to "be seen"........as "religious" and more "holy." I also think, and it's just my humble opinion, that there are more important things that the church should be worried about right now. Again, if your eyes are on Christ during worship, you won't be caring what your neighbor is wearing.

I just have to add...My DH walked by as I was reading this and he had to sit down on the floor he was laughing so hard at the thread title. Nice wording there Blessed!!!


Markofthebest, I KNEW you were a woman!! And I'm not saying that in a demeaning way at all. However, you don't understand, as we men do, how easily stimulated we guys are by a visual stimulus. Why do you think that the porn magazines are largely published by and for men? One of my former girlfriends told me that women are not stimulated as much by a visual stimulus as much as by being touched. So, it just stands to reason that the scantily clad people in church don't bother you, but I bet if you ask your hubby, he'd have a vastly different opinion on this matter!! Just an FYI.

:): :hug :P:

[Flower]

Originally Posted by mom of 4
I think this is a subject of "treading lightly and gently". I can't quite understand the comments of women dressed scatily leading men astray and breaking marriages up. If those marriages were so easily broken, it could happen anywhere, not just church. Secondly, we can not place the blame on women for those poor men and their roving eyes. That said:

A mature christian will most likely dress appropriately to church. (However, there will always be someone who still thinks they are not dressed appropriatly! "Oh, my! Did you see that her sleeves only cover_____!") It is clearly an idenifying mark of someone who has not matured if they are dressing inaprropriately. The problem is not in their dress,(which so many will accuse of them of), but in their relationship with Christ. So, instead of pointing out the symptom, and give them a bandage, we need to help them find the cure. It will so no good to point out their lack of clothes, if they have no desire to please God. It will only discourage them, and like another poster said, push them away from church and God. Their problem is not in their nakedness, but in their realization of their nakedness. Instead of introducing them to clothing, we need to truly introduce them to Christ. They may know church, but not God. As mature Christians, we should have mastered our "roving eyes". We should be disiplined enough that we see the person, and not their clothing. Are our eyes on Jesus, or on Mrs. Smiths short skirt? Who do you first see when you enter in to worship? Are you so easily distracted? Lets be gentle ecouragers, and not pushers of "what is right and appropriate in church" . I know that acceptance and unconditional love can change a heart much faster than anything. Lets keep our eyes on what is important, Bringing souls to Christ. Not, being the wardrobe police.

Bravo and I agree. :clap


While I don't think it is appropriate to dress in a revealing fashion at church, I don't particulary like when people appoint themselves the "proper" fashion moniters of a congregation either. I tend to find people who dump on tons of perfume rather offputting. Or those who wear so much jewelry and designer labels as to flaunt their wealth much more distracting and offensive to my sensibilities than people in short skirts.

I apologize if I sound harsh but I have dealt with churches in the past with this same issue. Skirts can't be more than an inch above the knee, but blatantly flaunting about your mink coat and $400 handbag is somehow morally more acceptable.
It's focusing on symptoms, as mom of 4 put it so beautifully above, and it tends to create a lot of hard feelings and "plank in your own eye" disease.

Pray that we all can come into a greater maturity with Christ.

[jakesmom515]

I think dressing with the thought in mind: "Will this cause one of my brother's in Christ to sin or stumble (just a look and a lustful though is all that is needed to be considered sin)", is a good guideline in dressing modestly or more appropriately. I think that is one of our responsibilities as Godly women. As a child of Christ, it's our duty to love and I think not wanting to cause another person to sin is a way of showing that. At least that's how I try to guage my outfit choices. Just my opinion though. Please don't blast me. :wave

[LDinthewoods]

IMO the reason many Christians in our churches lack spiritual maturity is because everyone is afraid to teach them the lessons of the Bible - lest that person get mad & walk away from "our" church or the Lord. People learn by being informed of the problem by people who are more mature & disciplined in the faith and in biblical knowledge....a seasoned Christian if you will.

If someone (a Christian) is counseled in a godly manner about their attire and they rebel from that counsel, they are basically saying that a cleavage-bearing blouses (or pants :fear ) are more important to them than their church family, fellowship or respecting their elders & the body of Christ. It is better to let that person go away (mad) from the church. They make a choice to be mad & let it interrupt their spiritual journey.

A big part of the problem these days is we let people who are causing division in the church stay in the church rather than forcing them to make choices that would both edify the church and increase individual maturity.

[Kem]

IMO the reason many Christians in our churches lack spiritual maturity is because everyone is afraid to teach them the lessons of the Bible - lest that person get mad & walk away from "our" church or the Lord. People learn by being informed of the problem by people who are more mature & disciplined in the faith and in biblical knowledge....a seasoned Christian if you will.

If someone (a Christian) is counseled in a godly manner about their attire and they rebel from that counsel, they are basically saying that a cleavage-bearing blouses (or pants :fear ) are more important to them than their church family, fellowship or respecting their elders & the body of Christ. It is better to let that person go away (mad) from the church. They make a choice to be mad & let it interrupt their spiritual journey.

A big part of the problem these days is we let people who are causing division in the church stay in the church rather than forcing them to make choices that would both edify the church and increase individual maturity.

I so totally agree with this. It is sad that common sense has gone out the window along with modesty.

[LisaAnn]

What I've noticed is the clothing gets less sexy the longer they attend from when they join, it's like the holy spirit speaks to them on it.
:amen

We should gently teach about modesty but it is the job of the Holy Spirit to speak to their hearts about their clothes.

I honestly dont think kids know any better anymore, no matter if they come from a Christian home or not. :noidea They simply are not being taught any better.

When I was in my early twenties I rember an evening church service where there were a row of teenage girls sitting together. They were girls from Christian families. One of the elderly ladies in our church got up during testimony time and lambasted these girls for their short skirts. Making a public spectical of them and embarassing them. :mad :yell I was only about 20 or 21 myself and nearly bit my tongue off to keep from getting up and informing the lady that I happened to know of a VERY non-Christian party going on at that very moment that I KNEW these girls knew about. Yet, they had decided to come to the house of God instead. Within a few weeks every one of those girls quit coming to church and havent darkened the doorway since. :(:


The Bible tells us that the Lord doesent look on the outward apperance but on the heart. If we are talking about Christian kids here then it is His job to convict them of their dress. We can teach but we cannot do the Holy Spirit's job for Him.

[FemaleWriter]

I think revealing clothes are a distraction....at least for me. If someone comes to church with a lot of exposed skin, I have a difficult time paying attention to the minister.

I personally wear simple black jeans and a shirt/t-shirt with a simple non-distracting design. I actually wear jeans and a shirt almost everywhere, unless a place has a dress code. But I'm modest and try to cover up as much as possible (I haven't really worn shorts, skirts, or dresses since I had a bad experience when I was 14).


If we can get celebrities to dress more modest, then we might be able to change things around. A lot of people look to celebrities on how to dress and act. Sad. Very sad.

~Christine

[Blessedx4]

I just wanted to note that promoting "self esteem" is not a biblical thing to do... It should be GOD esteem, not self esteem. People already love themselves enough, which is what Jesus implies when he says "love your neighbor as yourself." That is the major problem of all humanity, they love themselves too much, and their neighbor too little. Their “self-esteem” is high, which keeps them from thinking they need salvation or from appreciating God’s sacrifice. The amazing thing about Jesus dying for our sins is not that we were worth it… but that he died to save worthless people. Now, THAT is Love. It wouldn’t be love if he got a good deal. The whole thing that people DON’T love themselves enough is just a creation of god-hating psychologists. Unfortunately that false teaching has been embraced by the modern church.

Of course there is nothing wrong with teaching girls that they don't need to live and breathe for attracting men, and so don't need to dress like prostitutes. The underlying problem is that of wanting attention and using their bodies to get it. But a self-esteem teaching is not a biblical way to deal with it.

-Alan

Before I became a Christian I was filled with shame and self hate. I had no confidence whatsoever. Jesus removed that so yes He does help our self-esteem. As a female we feel it more than men do perhaps.

Also pay careful attention to Jesus dealings with the women around him, Mary and Martha for instance. This is what's so stupid about womens movement. Jesus was ahead of the times because in many cultures women are possessions or little better than cattle. God gives women a dignified place in the home and society (Read Proverbs 31) God's word teaches treating women with respect and dignity. This society tends to demean women even 30 years after the womens' movement began.

[Blessedx4]

And ps I keep seeing this nonsense that it's what on the inside that counts- :rolleyes

true up to a point- I know it seems unfair (and I'm not perfect by any means) but let's be honest. What we see on the outside gives the world clues about what's going on on the inside. This is how the world judges us - what they see on the outside. :):

[Kem]

[QUOTE= One of the elderly ladies in our church got up during testimony time and lambasted these girls for their short skirts. Making a public spectical of them and embarassing them.
.[/QUOTE]

This is just as wrong to do as is a failure to teach modesty. Both approaches are unbiblical and create problems rather than solve them.

[Flower]

If someone (a Christian) is counseled in a godly manner about their attire and they rebel from that counsel, they are basically saying that a cleavage-bearing blouses (or pants ) are more important to them than their church family, fellowship or respecting their elders & the body of Christ. It is better to let that person go away (mad) from the church. They make a choice to be mad & let it interrupt their spiritual journey.



I think this is true. However, when a subject like this tends to come up in a congregation how often do we see true Godly counsel? Or do we see it approached from a spirit of gossip, condescention and scorn?
Perhaps low-cut blouses aren't as important to the person, but feeling like your church family ridicules you behind your back is the reason they flee.
If the counsel is truly from a place of wanting to help the person and is done in a loving manner, I have no problem with it. It's just that I have seen this reason used as an excuse for portions of churches to degenerate into gossipy sewing circles and run struggling people out of them.

[CountryPerson]

I just wanted to note that promoting "self esteem" is not a biblical thing to do... It should be GOD esteem, not self esteem. People already love themselves enough, which is what Jesus implies when he says "love your neighbor as yourself." That is the major problem of all humanity, they love themselves too much, and their neighbor too little. Their “self-esteem” is high, which keeps them from thinking they need salvation or from appreciating God’s sacrifice. The amazing thing about Jesus dying for our sins is not that we were worth it… but that he died to save worthless people. Now, THAT is Love. It wouldn’t be love if he got a good deal. The whole thing that people DON’T love themselves enough is just a creation of god-hating psychologists. Unfortunately that false teaching has been embraced by the modern church.

Of course there is nothing wrong with teaching girls that they don't need to live and breathe for attracting men, and so don't need to dress like prostitutes. The underlying problem is that of wanting attention and using their bodies to get it. But a self-esteem teaching is not a biblical way to deal with it.

-Alan

Right on, Alan! What you are saying here is very unpopular even in christian circles. Due to Dobson, et al, teaching about how to increase your child's self esteem, we often notice groups of self-loving, anything goes kinds of youth out there, though fortunately there are certainly many, many wonderful exceptions to this who serve others in a very selfless way.
Also, dh (dear husband), and you're right, dd does stand for dear daughter.
Great posts in this thread, Alan.

[4everHis]

It IS too hot in the summer to wear dress up clothes outside.
I think it's appropriate to wear more casual dress in the hot months of
summer. Not revealing but comfortable.

[watching4him]

This is off topic, but could someone explain the meaning of dd and dh? I can guess the dd1 and dd2 thing must have meant daughter 1 and 2 but what about dh that I hear so often? I'm at a loss for the funny abbreviation. Thanks.

I use it to mean dd1 dear daughter 1 ( my oldest) dd2 dear daughter 2 ( my youngest). dh dear husband or hubby.

[markofthebest]

Markofthebest, I KNEW you were a woman!! And I'm not saying that in a demeaning way at all. However, you don't understand, as we men do, how easily stimulated we guys are by a visual stimulus. Why do you think that the porn magazines are largely published by and for men? One of my former girlfriends told me that women are not stimulated as much by a visual stimulus as much as by being touched. So, it just stands to reason that the scantily clad people in church don't bother you, but I bet if you ask your hubby, he'd have a vastly different opinion on this matter!! Just an FYI.

:): :hug :P:


I thought everyone knew I was a woman :lol

My DH and I are VERY anti-legalism. We were part of the 70's Jesus Freaks, coffee house, original Jesus rock crowd. I really DON'T care what people wear to church...in fact when we moved last year and were looking for a church....a more then 60% suit and tie crowd ruled that church out.

And yes I do understand about guys and stimulation....I take my sock off and DH pants.....and he's 48!!!! :pound

[JustasIam]

IMO the reason many Christians in our churches lack spiritual maturity is because everyone is afraid to teach them the lessons of the Bible - lest that person get mad & walk away from "our" church or the Lord. People learn by being informed of the problem by people who are more mature & disciplined in the faith and in biblical knowledge....a seasoned Christian if you will.

If someone (a Christian) is counseled in a godly manner about their attire and they rebel from that counsel, they are basically saying that a cleavage-bearing blouses (or pants :fear ) are more important to them than their church family, fellowship or respecting their elders & the body of Christ. It is better to let that person go away (mad) from the church. They make a choice to be mad & let it interrupt their spiritual journey.

AMEN!!! :nod


A big part of the problem these days is we let people who are causing division in the church stay in the church rather than forcing them to make choices that would both edify the church and increase individual maturity.

Again, I agree 100% :thumb :nod


As I mentioned above, first impressions are important in our user-friendly churches. Thus, Christians feel they must keep up with the latest fashion trends so that seekers will feel right at home. Regrettably, sleazy stars like Jessica Simpson and Paris Hilton, plus Victoria’s Secret designers set the trend for females of all age groups. . . . . . The problem with the “Christians are cool” approach is that followers of Christ aren’t supposed to be cool; they’re supposed to be holy. But few pastors preach on holiness these days. Even though we serve a holy God and are called to be holy as He is holy, the message of sin and repentance has been diluted to appeal to the “felt needs” of today’s self-absorbed audience. People want to leave the church feeling good about themselves. No one wants to hear anything “negative” anymore.

I agree wholeheartedly (and I don't care who flames me). The church as whole has let too much of "the world" creep in. How can the rest of the world tell that we are born-again, sanctified, believers in Jesus Christ if we're talking like the world, acting like the world and (YES) dressing like the world??? It doesn't take a whole lot of common sense about what to wear to church. (But I guess the feminist movement of the 60's and 70's taught women otherwise - even though the Bible strictly says that women shouldn't be wearing clothing that men normally wear - especially in the house of God.) I'm afraid too many in Christendom today are putting their own comfort levels and wardrobe preferences above presenting what's appropriate for a church service. (and yes, I'll come out and say that I do not think it's appropriate for women to wear jeans, trousers or similar piece of clothing to church. If our mothers and grandmothers could wear dresses, skirts, and such to church, then women of today can do the same thing. I'm sure there are ladies down South who endure stifling heat and humidity during the summers - yet they still wear dresses and skirts to church - and growing up, I never heard one of them gripe about it.)

While I don't advocate public embarrassment of those who don't dress appropriately - looking like rock stars, prostitutes, rap stars, and such doesn't belong in a church service. God demands not just our best, but EVERYTHING. That means our minds, hearts, and souls - and yes, our attire should be brought into submission before Him.

Go ahead - flame away at this young "old fogie".

[Alancj]

Before I became a Christian I was filled with shame and self hate. I had no confidence whatsoever. Jesus removed that so yes He does help our self-esteem. As a female we feel it more than men do perhaps.

Also pay careful attention to Jesus dealings with the women around him, Mary and Martha for instance. This is what's so stupid about womens movement. Jesus was ahead of the times because in many cultures women are possessions or little better than cattle. God gives women a dignified place in the home and society (Read Proverbs 31) God's word teaches treating women with respect and dignity. This society tends to demean women even 30 years after the womens' movement began.

Don't confuse hate of your own circumstances with actual self hate. If you really hated yourself you would enjoy being miserable (if that makes sense) and hate being happy. If people really had a problem with self-esteem then no one would kill themselves, because suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness. But Dave Hunt can explain it better then I can:

Self-Love vs. Selfless Love (http://members.tripod.com/jdlarsenmn/counsel_of_God.htm)

At the bottom of the article (which is very good by the way, though not written by Dave) are some links to audio files about what I'm trying to say. Dave says it better than I can. Another place to get good info on this try:

www.psychoheresy-aware.org/ (http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/)

And some searching on the RR Board will reveal other discussions on this too.

Right on, Alan! What you are saying here is very unpopular even in christian circles. Due to Dobson, et al, teaching about how to increase your child's self esteem, we often notice groups of self-loving, anything goes kinds of youth out there, though fortunately there are certainly many, many wonderful exceptions to this who serve others in a very selfless way.
Also, dh (dear husband), and you're right, dd does stand for dear daughter.
Great posts in this thread, Alan.

Well, thanks for the kind words! And thank God he led me to the truth on the issue, because I used to be all about the positive thinking, self-affirmation, and stop-sabotaging-yourself stuff. But I still have a lot to learn...

-Alan

[Blessedx4]

AMEN!!! :nod



Again, I agree 100% :thumb :nod



I agree wholeheartedly (and I don't care who flames me). The church as whole has let too much of "the world" creep in. How can the rest of the world tell that we are born-again, sanctified, believers in Jesus Christ if we're talking like the world, acting like the world and (YES) dressing like the world??? It doesn't take a whole lot of common sense about what to wear to church. (But I guess the feminist movement of the 60's and 70's taught women otherwise - even though the Bible strictly says that women shouldn't be wearing clothing that men normally wear - especially in the house of God.) I'm afraid too many in Christendom today are putting their own comfort levels and wardrobe preferences above presenting what's appropriate for a church service. (and yes, I'll come out and say that I do not think it's appropriate for women to wear jeans, trousers or similar piece of clothing to church. If our mothers and grandmothers could wear dresses, skirts, and such to church, then women of today can do the same thing. I'm sure there are ladies down South who endure stifling heat and humidity during the summers - yet they still wear dresses and skirts to church - and growing up, I never heard one of them gripe about it.)

While I don't advocate public embarrassment of those who don't dress appropriately - looking like rock stars, prostitutes, rap stars, and such doesn't belong in a church service. God demands not just our best, but EVERYTHING. That means our minds, hearts, and souls - and yes, our attire should be brought into submission before Him.

Go ahead - flame away at this young "old fogie".
:nod

Thank you for quoting the article. My guess is a few haven't read it.

[saved sinner]

I don't lilke to see unsuitable dress in Church. NO shorts or halter tops please. Me I like the long dresses and skirts. ( and I am not a prude )

[mom of 4]

I don't lilke to see unsuitable dress in Church. NO shorts or halter tops please. Me I like the long dresses and skirts. ( and I am not a prude )

I think we all can agree on this. But your mature Christian who has a relationship with the Lord is not going to dress this way. The people who are dressing this way are people who still haven't taken a relationship up with Christ. We can point out the "inappropriateness" of their clothing, and it will bounce off of them and possibly bounce them right out the door and back out into the world from where they came. That could be one approach to teaching modesty. Second approach can be introducing them to Christ and the Holy Spirit. I know that they can fully change a heart and the way a person dresses.

IMHO, people are dressing that way to rebel against any set rules. Give them more "rules" and they are going to rebel more. Give them Christ, and watch a life change.

I don't want to reach Heaven one day, and have God say," Thank goodness you got Misses Smith to change her skirt! But what I really needed from her was a change of heart." The change of heart would have "changed" her skirt as well.

The whole clothing thing is a symptom of something much worse. We should not spend so much time on what people are wearing externally, when the internal is still broken. Fixing the outside is just patching the problem.

And, if you have a hard time because someone three pews up from you is showing some backside, clearly you also have a problem that needs to be taken care of.

[SapphireGrl]

IMO the reason many Christians in our churches lack spiritual maturity is because everyone is afraid to teach them the lessons of the Bible - lest that person get mad & walk away from "our" church or the Lord. People learn by being informed of the problem by people who are more mature & disciplined in the faith and in biblical knowledge....a seasoned Christian if you will.

If someone (a Christian) is counseled in a godly manner about their attire and they rebel from that counsel, they are basically saying that a cleavage-bearing blouses (or pants :fear ) are more important to them than their church family, fellowship or respecting their elders & the body of Christ. It is better to let that person go away (mad) from the church. They make a choice to be mad & let it interrupt their spiritual journey.

A big part of the problem these days is we let people who are causing division in the church stay in the church rather than forcing them to make choices that would both edify the church and increase individual maturity.
Amen and Amen. This is a serious, serious problem in the church, and it's showing up in this thread. There is this fear of hurting other people's feelings with the truth. Well, you know what? The truth hurts. I'm not talking about everyone's personal ideas of "truth" but real, Godly truth as found in the Word. I don't say this callously, I say it simply because it's true.

Scripture clearly states we are to dress modestly. We are not to reveal our bodies in the inappropriate ways Christians currently do. But too many people are afraid to bring it up. Too many people are afraid to say anything, lest they look or sound condemning, even though they aren't and their hearts are in the right place. So there's this attitude that we should just ignore it in favor of the "larger issues" so that someone doesn't get driven away, even though we're supposed to say something! We're supposed to help and teach one another in following the ways of the Lord!

It says in Titus 2, for the older women to teach the younger women but how often do you see this happen anymore? Everyone's afraid to offend! And if you don't say anything, how do you expect people to change? We're to teach one another, help one another, care for one another, love one another. It is not loving your sisters and brothers if you decide that it's someone else's responsibility to deal with this issue. If you're just sitting around waiting on the Holy Spirit to convict them. How do you know God doesn't want to use you to bring this to their attention? He uses each of us to affect change in one another's lives every day.

Scripture also says in Philippians 2 that we are to esteem others as higher than ourselves and do nothing from selfishness or conceit. So we should care more about the possibility of a brother stumbling because of our lack of dress than our own desire to "show it all off". But I don't hear that taught either. Why are people in the church so afraid to teach this stuff? What has happened to the Church that so many people are so unwilling to be taught? That everyone has become so defensive that people are afraid to broach important subjects like this? This is no small issue, this is serious. Yet too many churches and Christians are dropping the ball because they are afraid to address the issue and that is absolutely shameful. We ought to love one another enough that we are willing to speak to one another about this. We ought to love one another enough that we would rather risk hurt feelings than allowing a sister of ours to shame herself in her dress. We ought to esteem one another highly enough that we're willing to risk someone not liking us because we chose to be obedient to the Word and teach one another about what is acceptable behavior and dress before the Lord. That is what we should be doing.

[Live4Jesus]

Ebonye - can you give me the scripture that says we are to dress modestly - I need to show that to my DD.

I don't have a problem with people who wear jeans and Tshirts to church. As long as they are not inappropriate shirts and the jeans aren't all full of holes or fall down with every step that is taken. We wear jeans and Tshirts to church.

I agree that wearing revealing clothes - especially in church - is not something that a Christian should be doing.

[mom of 4]

But the real problem is not knowing what the Bible says. Its not a matter of "teaching" at this point. Its not that people are afraid to confront someone. Its not a matter of not being liked. The real problem is the realtionship to Christ. If the person has no relationship to Christ, tell me why would they truly care what the Bible says? The point is that they don't. Earlier in my younger days, if someone in a church would have made a comment that what I was wearing was inappropriate, in my immaturness, I probably would have made a run for the nearest exit.

This thread reminds me of of the book I read a few years ago called the Poisonwood Bible. The main character was a (missionary) minister in africa, and he preached to these topless savages about their lack of clothing. He preached about what was wrong with them- never winning any souls to christ. On the other hand, his wife won people over by her gentlenss and acceptance. I tend to want to be like people with a gentle and accepting nature, than not. Again, they are not stumbling because of their lack of clothing, but because they do not know Christ intimately.

[SapphireGrl]

Ebonye - can you give me the scripture that says we are to dress modestly - I need to show that to my DD.
Here you go, Missy. :):

1 Timothy 2:9-10
9 ...in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,
10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.

And for those who aren't trying to hear it, I also like Proverbs 11:22, which says:
22 As a ring of gold in a swine's snout, so is a beautiful woman who lacks discretion.

;):

[Flower]

I absolutely agree with the passages on modesty.

However, again, my main problem is that many churches handle this problem in the wrong way. Either modesty is not taught period, or you have people appointing themselves to dole out correction in an improper fashion. If you do want to speak to someone about their choice in clothing I would first ask if you have even bothered to learn their name? Or how they are doing in their walk with God? Correction done in the spirit of helping a sister or brother in Christ is something wonderful. But again, too many times this issue is handled in a way that comes across as sniping and gossipy.
Even if a leader in the church does the correcting, I would ask the same questions. Does the pastor even know the name of the person he is correcting? Does he know anything about them other than what they wear?
As churches get bigger and bigger there is an alienation that can occur between people and everyone's spiritual lives tend to suffer because of it.

I just have seen how badly gossip can ravage a church and this issue is one of those things that tends to stir it up.

I'm not knocking anyone who is championing for modesty as I think it is tremendously important and neccesary, especially in the world we live in today. I just think the ways of dealing with the issue could be improved in churches.

[SapphireGrl]

But the real problem is not knowing what the Bible says. Its not a matter of "teaching" at this point. Its not that people are afraid to confront someone. Its not a matter of not being liked.
Yes it is. It may not be with you personally, but this is a real problem. People don't want to look or sound mean, or seem confrontational, etc. And also, far too many people don't know the Word. They have no idea what scripture even says about these issues because the Church has become woefully scripturally ignorant. And then there's the crowd that always says, "well, let's just let that take care of itself," even though it doesn't. Sinful behavior never just takes care of itself.

The real problem is the realtionship to Christ. If the person has no relationship to Christ, tell me why would they truly care what the Bible says? The point is that they don't. Earlier in my younger days, if someone in a church would have made a comment that what I was wearing was inappropriate, in my immaturness, I probably would have made a run for the nearest exit.
Someone's possible reaction to receiving the teachings of the Word does not excuse us from giving it. We are not supposed to base our willingness to be obedient to the Lord in our instruction of one another on how someone else may or may not react to it. We are simply to be obedient and let God handle the consequences of our obedience. He has never asked us to use our own rationalizations about what may or may not happen when we're instructed to do something.

I doubt that someone who is not living for the Lord will care less about the Lord's teachings about proper dress and behavior. Especially if they're unsaved. But we're not supposed to let that have an effect on our doing what God has called us to do for one another.

This thread reminds me of of the book I read a few years ago called the Poisonwood Bible. The main character was a (missionary) minister in africa, and he preached to these topless savages about their lack of clothing. He preached about what was wrong with them- never winning any souls to christ. On the other hand, his wife won people over by her gentlenss and acceptance. I tend to want to be like people with a gentle and accepting nature, than not. Again, they are not stumbling because of their lack of clothing, but because they do not know Christ intimately.
First, I think you need to be careful about the type of person you're comparing those of us who disagree with you to. Who has said not to be loving to one another? Who has said not to show compassion and gentleness? Why is it that people always assume that Christian correction must exclude love and be heavy handed and full of condemnation? The entire basis of our caring for one another is love! To do it in love and with genuine concern and care for one another!

I don't know who you're talking about in your posts, but I am talking about saved Christians. Not the unsaved. The unsaved will do what the unsaved will do because their minds are in darkness. But as for fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, it is our job to care for one another and correct one another when it is called for. We do a disservice to one another when we don't. It's not love to let one another proceed in error. It's not love to turn a blind eye to sinful behavior. When you really, really love your brothers and sisters, you care enough about them to risk that offense in order to help them become the righteous men and women of God that Christ Jesus has called us to become.

People really need to stop acting like this is an impossible thing to do in a loving and gentle manner.

[SapphireGrl]

I absolutely agree with the passages on modesty.

However, again, my main problem is that many churches handle this problem in the wrong way. Either modesty is not taught period, or you have people appointing themselves to dole out correction in an improper fashion. If you do want to speak to someone about their choice in clothing I would first ask if you have even bothered to learn their name? Or how they are doing in their walk with God? Correction done in the spirit of helping a sister or brother in Christ is something wonderful. But again, too many times this issue is handled in a way that comes across as sniping and gossipy.
Even if a leader in the church does the correcting, I would ask the same questions. Does the pastor even know the name of the person he is correcting? Does he know anything about them other than what they wear?
As churches get bigger and bigger there is an alienation that can occur between people and everyone's spiritual lives tend to suffer because of it.

I just have seen how badly gossip can ravage a church and this issue is one of those things that tends to stir it up.

I'm not knocking anyone who is championing for modesty as I think it is tremendously important and neccesary, especially in the world we live in today. I just think the ways of dealing with the issue could be improved in churches.
I totally agree, Flower. :nod :thumb

[mom of 4]

I guess I am having a hard time with this, because I truly believe that the immodest dress in a symptom of a much larger problem. Its like taking an aspirin for headache caused by a brain tumor.

Also, where I come from, I can't say that I see alot of immodest dressing going on in church. Thats not just at my church, but the surrounding churches as well. I don't hear preaching on the subject, I guess I never have, but for the most part people respect that they are in church and dress appropriately. (We are pretty conservative around here).

If the preaching came from the pulpit, and not directed at any one person, that is great. But, I would have a hard time if Mrs. So and so decided to inform me that my shirt sleeve was a little too short, or that my dress was a little too flashy. It would offend me greatly. Now, if Mrs so and so was teaching a womens Bible Study, and it was studied, without pointedly done for my benefit, that would be fine. It is hard to singlely teach one person on the matter of dress without offending.

[rdy4takeoff]

No one should directly inform someone they are dressing inappropriatly.I agree with that. I am just saying that if they are reading their bibles and listening to God word they should know better and they do. They are puting themselves and their feelings before God and that is not right.No one should appoint themselves fashion police. But countless times I have heard preachers tell them not to dress like that and they come to church the next Sun. dressed even worse just to make a point.

[Blessedx4]

I have been nothing but humble in my responses here. I've not knowingly said anything that I even thought would be taken as condemnation. I am the chief of sinners after all but I also have to tell the truth and I agree that the truth is not always pleasant.

About 2 years ago my church did a Sunday night study on personal holiness. It's something that Churches are afraid to teach but that an sanctification are 2 key teachings in the New Testament to the Church. How can we ignore that? But we do because it puts our sins and our ideas under a magnifying glass and that makes us squirm. It's not pleasant. But we have to do that if we want to please God with our lives.

WE have got to be CONSTANTLY examining ourselves and being honest with ourselves.

Are we truly allowing Christ to be the Lord of all areas of our lives? I can't answer that for anyone else but I'm pretty sure we all have areas that we've not surrendered to the Lord yet (if we're honest that is- I know I do :): But I am trying to- it's a daily battle for me)

[SapphireGrl]

No one should directly inform someone they are dressing inappropriatly.I agree with that. I am just saying that if they are reading their bibles and listening to God word they should know better and they do. They are puting themselves and their feelings before God and that is not right.No one should appoint themselves fashion police. But countless times I have heard preachers tell them not to dress like that and they come to church the next Sun. dressed even worse just to make a point.
Yes, we should directly inform one another when we're dressing inappropriately, just like we're to correct one another when we're acting inappropriately in other ways. That is what family does for one another. :nod The problem is no one wants to be the one to do it.

Again, this goes back to the older women being instructed to teach the younger women. The key is to do it in the appropriate way. With genuine love, genuine caring, genuine concern and using words that don't shame and condemn, but encourage, uplift, and teach. We're to teach one another because so many people really don't know any better. And those that do know better need to be gently corrected and brought into line with God's instructions on the matter.

[mom of 4]

[QUOTE=SapphireGrl]Yes, we should directly inform one another when we're dressing inappropriately, just like we're to correct one another when we're acting inappropriately in other ways. That is what family does for one another. :nod The problem is no one wants to be the one to do it.

OK. What is the exact guidelines for "appropriate" then. Because, what I might consider ok to wear, someone in my church may not think it appropriate. With people going around telling people directly what they should and should not be wearing, there are bound to be hurt feelings everywhere.

I have a young lady who works for me, and her grnadmother rebukes her even if she has her collarbone showing. To her, it isn't approriate. I know an older lady that feels having your elbows showing is inapprorpriate. I don't mind seeing a lady wearing a sundress if it covers her well- arms don't bother me! They might bother someone else though. I might wear a skirt that just covers my knee, but, again, someone in church might feel that it inappropriate. I guess we could get into quite a quagmire here.

And, unless the young lady was my daughter, I would not say anything about her attire. There are other ways to lead, than to confront someone .....I would rather them dress badly for a time, and win them to Christ, than offend them and have them leave.

[Ninesixteen]

My church just had a panel discussion on Sunday night about modest dress in the church. I've never known anyone to outright judge those who come in hater tops and tight jeans, etc, although I don't know what is going on in their heads. I know there have beena few times when my head has turned when I saw someone coming up for prayer that looked like they came straight to church from the club, but it just depends on the person, where they are from, what they have eperienced, how they grew up, etc. I think conviction will come for them if it is wrong, but as a church, we should help them along instead of judge them or look at them like they are crazy. When I see someone dressed in something that is inappropriate, I look up and see the looks on some women's face, and honestly it can be taken as a "holier than thou" attitude. Instead, we should counsel our women (and men), take them shopping, or whatever it takes. I'm with those who have said I concentrate on my walk instead of judging others. I wear dresses to church now, but I didn't always. The blessings that have come my way have allowed me to buy items for church that I couldn't before. I wonder how many people looked at me crazy when I first got saved in my jeans and tank top.....

[SapphireGrl]

OK. What is the exact guidelines for "appropriate" then. Because, what I might consider ok to wear, someone in my church may not think it appropriate. With people going around telling people directly what they should and should not be wearing, there are bound to be hurt feelings everywhere.
The problem is you're looking at in a way that I'm not. I'm not thinking of it as the "clothing cops" and I'm not thinking of "Oh, that woman/girl has on such and such, I'm going tell her she shouldn't be wearing that!" There is an appropriate time and an appropriate way to address the issue if you have observed that it's a consistent problem.

I look at it like this, and I'm sure most others do to. While modesty can be subjective, there are some absolutes and we all know it. We as Christians KNOW that we should not be exposing our breasts and cleavage. We KNOW that we should not be wearing skirts and pants that are so low that our underwear and rears are exposed. We KNOW that we should not be wearing mini-skirts and mini-dresses, which leave little to the imagination, and we KNOW that we shouldn't be wearing skin-tight clothing that shows off every curve. This is not about gossipy, nosy, control-freaks policing what everyone wears. This is about the protection and edification of the body of Christ, both our men and our women.

.....I would rather them dress badly for a time, and win them to Christ, than offend them and have them leave.
Again, I'm not referring to the unsaved. I'm addressing the Body of Christ.

[HiLaReE320]

I agree with the other posters that say we should be loving these girls just as they are... Then the change will come. I am a young person myself (20) so I can testify firsthand of some of the things talked about. You old people have got to understand that our culture is different and that the girls that show up to your church in these outfits may not know any better. But I gaurantee that if the church was doing its job in teaching the Word, not necessarily anything about modesty, then these girls would change because Christ has changed them. Heck, it's what happened to me! I mean, I was never one to dress like "a prostitute" as someone here said before, but honestly, it's hard to find cute tops that are not low cut!

But I also agree with someone else here that it isn't any different when some woman shows up decked out with her brand new Louis Vuitton (or however you spell it) handbag, Chanel sunglasses, and $100 pair of shoes. How is that showing modesty? I know as a college student, you see that ALL the time in college ministries and such.

[JustasIam]

Hmmm . . . I just have one question -

When did it become acceptable for someone (unsaved) to come in off of the street, go into a church and dress like he/she was going out to party for the night?

I apologize in advance if this comes across as harsh - it doesn't take a whole lot of sense to know what to wear in a house of worship - whether you're saved or not saved. When did people think that they could just wear anything and everything to church? Has Christendom gotten THAT LAX so that it doesn't matter?

My own mother didn't get saved until she was in her teenaged years - but her parents had enough sense not to send her to church in everyday streetwear - but of course, this was 40-45 years ago. Times have changed.

Honestly, I think people are wearing their feelings on their sleeves in regards to church attire. Looking up and seeing older women with "shocked" looks on their faces or a "holier than thou" look - what else can you expect? These women have probably been going to church and involved in church ministry for YEARS and YEARS - before men and women started thinking it was ok to wear "whatever" to church. If anything, their looks are probably an indication of how far the church has slid into being acceptable by the world.

Again, I don't condone public condemnation over attire in church. But please - church is CHURCH - not some rock concert or social gathering. Again, I'll repeat - it doesn't take a whole lotta sense to know what to wear in the house of God.

[SapphireGrl]

The Word of God never changes. The culture is the culture is the culture, but the Word never goes out of style. That is why we are called to come out of the world and be transformed into the image of Christ. The world is going to be what it is but we don't have to be a part of it.

Can someone who says to leave these girls and women in their sinful dress justify this with some scripture? Because I'm seeing a lot of human rationalization with no scripture to support it. On the other hand, there is scripture that talks about going to your brother and correcting him with love and gentleness, scripture that tells us to teach one another in the ways of the Lord, how to live in his ways, scripture that tells us to help one another learn His ways, to help one another change and become the men and women of faith that He has called us to be, etc. Yet it's like we should just ignore all that so that no one's feelings get hurt even though that's exactly what happens as you grow in Christ.

When Paul wrote his letters, don't you think that his words stepped on people's toes? That his words stung and they saw things in themselves that they didn't like? Paul was firm, he never strayed from giving the truth, yet he was so loving as he did it. Is he not to be our model? Or do we just start ignoring more and more sin in the name of not offending one another and just giving them time to learn it all on their own? And that's something else I've never seen in scripture either. The "don't say anything, it'll work itself out and they'll be ok" teaching.

[mom of 4]

The problem is that it is not our job to be convicting, but bringing them to the One that is - Jesus can change a person much faster than we can.

Perhaps i am not looking at it the same way some others do here, because I don't see the Body Of Christ dressing this way. I see the unsaved dressing this way. There is a big difference.

I would like to ask Ninesixteen what would have happened if one of the older ladies of the church would have taken her aside and talked to her about her choice of dress before she was saved. Would you have walked out? I know I would have. I bet 90% would walk out. I would rather tell Jesus that I helped change hearts not clothes. Change the heart, and the change of clothing will follow.

[Blessedx4]

I agree with the other posters that say we should be loving these girls just as they are... Then the change will come. I am a young person myself (20) so I can testify firsthand of some of the things talked about. You old people have got to understand that our culture is different and that the girls that show up to your church in these outfits may not know any better. But I gaurantee that if the church was doing its job in teaching the Word, not necessarily anything about modesty, then these girls would change because Christ has changed them. Heck, it's what happened to me! I mean, I was never one to dress like "a prostitute" as someone here said before, but honestly, it's hard to find cute tops that are not low cut!

But I also agree with someone else here that it isn't any different when some woman shows up decked out with her brand new Louis Vuitton (or however you spell it) handbag, Chanel sunglasses, and $100 pair of shoes. How is that showing modesty? I know as a college student, you see that ALL the time in college ministries and such.
There is nothing new under the sun :): This generation isn't facing anything that hasn't already been faced for generation. Clothing was addressed all in Bible. Trashy clothing was an issue for our grandmothers.

This just happens to be the generation that has removed God from everything and apparently doesn't ask what God would think (I'm talking Christian not unbelievers. Unbelievers do what they do we can't expect anything else)

Also I don't care how "gently" we are admonished about something. If we are unwilling to give up whatever it is, we WILL reject that admonishment or teaching and complain it's too harsh. That's the carnal man (or woman) at work in us.

[Blessedx4]

Sapphiregirl :): :thumb

[John 3:16]

The problem is you're looking at in a way that I'm not. I'm not thinking of it as the "clothing cops" and I'm not thinking of "Oh, that woman/girl has on such and such, I'm going tell her she shouldn't be wearing that!" There is an appropriate time and an appropriate way to address the issue if you have observed that it's a consistent problem.

I look at it like this, and I'm sure most others do to. While modesty can be subjective, there are some absolutes and we all know it. We as Christians KNOW that we should not be exposing our breasts and cleavage. We KNOW that we should not be wearing skirts and pants that are so low that our underwear and rears are exposed. We KNOW that we should not be wearing mini-skirts and mini-dresses, which leave little to the imagination, and we KNOW that we shouldn't be wearing skin-tight clothing that shows off every curve. This is not about gossipy, nosy, control-freaks policing what everyone wears. This is about the protection and edification of the body of Christ, both our men and our women.


Again, I'm not referring to the unsaved. I'm addressing the Body of Christ.


Thumbs up from me, too, SG!:thumb
Barb :hug

[rdy4takeoff]

[QUOTE=HiLaReE320] You old people have got to understand that our culture is different



:pound I am old. I use to be punk have purple hair and were snakeskin skirts.
I forgot how big a 19 year gap cab be

[Ninesixteen]

I would like to ask Ninesixteen what would have happened if one of the older ladies of the church would have taken her aside and talked to her about her choice of dress before she was saved. Would you have walked out? I know I would have. I bet 90% would walk out. I would rather tell Jesus that I helped change hearts not clothes. Change the heart, and the change of clothing will follow.


I think it would have depended on how they spoke to her. If looks could kill, she would have been out cold at the alter from those woman. But I think your right, in any event, she probably would have walked out. I think the only reason that no one said anything to her immediately is because the Pastor walked up to her and prayed for her specifically.

I agree with SaphGirl. I think once the Holy Spirit comes in, so does conviction. Your heart changes and so do your ways. I know after I was saved, 75% of the clothes in my closet went to goodwill. Not that I was dressing like a hoochie momma, but it was what the clothes represented that made me feel like I needed a change. I felt like I was representing something totally different than I did unsaved. And I want my ways as well as my appearance to show that.

[Ladybug]

The problem is that it is not our job to be convicting, but bringing them to the One that is - Jesus can change a person much faster than we can.

Perhaps i am not looking at it the same way some others do here, because I don't see the Body Of Christ dressing this way. I see the unsaved dressing this way. There is a big difference.

I would like to ask Ninesixteen what would have happened if one of the older ladies of the church would have taken her aside and talked to her about her choice of dress before she was saved. Would you have walked out? I know I would have. I bet 90% would walk out. I would rather tell Jesus that I helped change hearts not clothes. Change the heart, and the change of clothing will follow.


How can they be convicted if they do not know? :noidea Wasn't that the whole point of the Ten Commandments....to show us that we do fall short, no matter what we think?

I *have* seen Christian women who wear short skirts (I'm talking mid-thigh or higher), skimpy tops with spaghetti straps, clothes so tight you wonder how they can breathe. It's not a question about showing a collarbone or an elbow. It's a question if you bend over you show your hiney or people worry that you're gonna pop out of your top.

At least, I'm assuming they are Christians, since they're long-standing members of the church.

[mom of 4]

How can they be convicted if they do not know? :noidea Wasn't that the whole point of the Ten Commandments....to show us that we do fall short, no matter what we think?

I *have* seen Christian women who wear short skirts (I'm talking mid-thigh or higher), skimpy tops with spaghetti straps, clothes so tight you wonder how they can breathe. It's not a question about showing a collarbone or an elbow. It's a question if you bend over you show your hiney or people worry that you're gonna pop out of your top.

At least, I'm assuming they are Christians, since they're long-standing members of the church.


If they are dressing like this, and they are Christian, not just church going, then they all ready know better, and they are rebelling against something. Perhaps they are not as Christian as you think.

I just have never seen anyone who is a mature Christian dress this way for church. I have seen baby Chrisitans" start out this way, but they changed, and not because someone told them they were inappropriate. It was because the change came from the inside.

I am not saying that a preacher shouldn't talk about modesty. It is needed in this day. But to single someone out and tell them how to dress is probably not the right way to go about it, either. I just have never heard of anything like that until I read this thread.

[Live4Jesus]

Here you go, Missy. :):

1 Timothy 2:9-10
9 ...in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,
10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.

And for those who aren't trying to hear it, I also like Proverbs 11:22, which says:
22 As a ring of gold in a swine's snout, so is a beautiful woman who lacks discretion.

;):

Thanks sis! :hug

[ehbowen]

I would like to ask Ninesixteen what would have happened if one of the older ladies of the church would have taken her aside and talked to her about her choice of dress before she was saved. Would you have walked out? I know I would have. I bet 90% would walk out. I would rather tell Jesus that I helped change hearts not clothes. Change the heart, and the change of clothing will follow.

If this "talk" was a tongue-lashing then, yes, probably 90% would walk out. But suppose an "older lady of the church" took a personal interest in a younger guest who repeatedly showed up in questionable attire, and did so with the attitude that the younger lady, at heart, wanted to behave appropriately but was either unaware of how or unequipped to do so. Suppose that the older lady offered to take the younger out for a day of shopping, with the aim of helping her augment her wardrobe while developing an eye for quality and class. Do you think that you might catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar?

[ed braski]

First of all anyone who is a christian should realize they represent the Lord and that there are moral standards to uphold out of respect for the Lord. The world is watching.

If looking at a woman or woman who look at men and having thoughts is adultry then we are sinning and advertising sin. Its the modern world we live in.

No pastor ought put up with it.

[deafnc77]

[QUOTE=HiLaReE320] You old people have got to understand that our culture is different



:pound I am old. I use to be punk have purple hair and were snakeskin skirts.
I forgot how big a 19 year gap cab be

I remember in 80's bikini fanny floss were popular at the beach ( thong bikini, they look like thong underwear). I personally think the 80's were the worst immodest generation. They even had girls flashing their boobs in movies (they still do, but not as bad as the 80's !!!)

[ed braski]

If there is a problem with dressing and the imodesty it leads to, then a pastor ought preach on it. The Lord will surley convict those whom He wishes to change thier ways.
Are we not getting into leagalism here when we dictate dress code. For Gods sake a christian ought have enough sense if they know Christ NOT to mock Him by the way they dress inappropriately.

[ed braski]

Oh yea one other thing for those of you who wil defend dressing like a street walker.

We are AMBASSADORS for Christ according to scripture. An ambassador does not go to a foreign country and act like a drunk. He or she carries themselves in a well mannered way.

[lolee]

Just wanted to say that I have recently had this discussion with my 32 year old daughter, and I feel that there is a deception in the church even worse than the secular.
At least these people who wear the same thing to church as they wear other places, are not being hypocritical! Many church go-ers think nothing of wearing a bikini at the beach...(the location makes no difference as to what is modest). If guys can swim in knee length swim wear, then everyone could wear a LOT more for swimming. The problem is that function is not the issue...the evidence is that sexuality (that the world openly acknowledges).. is the motivation for much christian dress also. Individual transgression can be forgiven...but moving the "boundaries" to the world's standards is unforgivable. The church needs to teach and MODEL a standard that is appropriate.

[SapphireGrl]

I personally think the 80's were the worst immodest generation.
Yup, it's not an "old people" thing, though I hardly think I'm old when I just turned 30. :lol :lol I also think that telling people that came of age in the turbulent 60s and 70s, which were the eras of "free love" and sexual revolution, that today's culture is different is probably quite laughable to them. :nod There really is nothing new under the sun.

[huggybob46]

It IS too hot in the summer to wear dress up clothes outside.
I think it's appropriate to wear more casual dress in the hot months of
summer. Not revealing but comfortable.


Now, come on. What about people who have to dress up to go to the office?? No matter how much they may complain that they're too hot, they HAVE to wear those clothes, or maybe run the risk of being sent home to change. And besides, the office is air conditioned, and SO ARE MOST CHURCHES, so this argument doesn't hold any water. I'm a man, and while I don't wear a suit and tie to church, I DO wear long pants and usually polo shirts. A polo shirt is not as comfortable as a T-shirt, but again, I'm in an air-conditioned environment, so I'm fine. I'm uncomfortable while I'm outside for the couple minutes it takes me to walk from the building to my car, but WASN'T JESUS UNCOMFORTABLE HANGING ON THE CROSS!!!!!!:yell

[huggybob46]

If there is a problem with dressing and the imodesty it leads to, then a pastor ought preach on it. The Lord will surley convict those whom He wishes to change thier ways.
Are we not getting into leagalism here when we dictate dress code. For Gods sake a christian ought have enough sense if they know Christ NOT to mock Him by the way they dress inappropriately.


Perhaps, but many people, for whatever reason, are Christians and STILL dress in a way that stumbles their sisters/brothers. Maybe they're just rebellious at heart, and they should be confronted in a way that is gentle, and yet lets them know it no uncertain terms that they should dress differently. Inappropriate dress is a big problem in large metropolitan areas, and especially if you go to one of those mega churches, which I was a member of for 5 years. You would not believe what I saw there!!!

:freaked :doh

[evangelyn]

Lots of interesting opinions here.

Regardless of where we stand, we can't forget that every Christian is a "work in progress." It's possible that a lady who dresses inappropriately could be growing by leaps and bounds in another area of her spiritual walk. I have a female friend who truly loves the Lord...she's what you would call "on fire" for God...you can see her Christian growth in nearly everything she does. However, she also has a killer figure and is totally clueless about how distracting some of her wardrobe choices are.

If the Holy Spirit immediately convicted you of everything you did that was unholy and unrighteous...you wouldn't be able to bear it. Perhaps the Lord sees fit to convict a young lady in one area of her life, before he convicts her concerning her attire.

Speaking from personal experience, I know that I don't act, dress, speak, or think the way I did before I became a Christian. Neither do I act, dress, speak, or think, the way I did a year ago...or even a month ago. I fully expect to mature and become more Christ-like as I continue my walk with Him.

As for how do we define something so subjective as "modesty" and "appropriateness"...I like this idea:

Dress in such a way that everyone knows your a WOMAN, but no one questions whether you are a LADY. :clap

I also like this idea:

When you notice the limp in someone's walk, consider the tack in their shoe. :wave

Older women ARE instructed to teach younger women; however this is best achieved within the context of relationships. Furthermore, older women are to examine themselves too...including their heart, motives, and maturity. Speaking the truth in love while gently correcting a sister in Christ is something few believers can do well. If you think someone needs "a word" PRAY 1st.

[SapphireGrl]

Speaking the truth in love while gently correcting a sister in Christ is something few believers can do well.
Then this is something the Church needs to correct itself on right now. :nod God wouldn't call us to do it if He didn't know we were capable of it.

And again, the attitude to just let people be and leave them to themselves, hoping that the Lord will eventually deal with them and their sin is not found in scripture. We are to help one another, correct one another when we see one another walking in error or sin, instruct and teach one another, and do it in a loving way that builds one another up in Christ. Just leaving people to themselves and to the Lord is not an option found in scripture.

[evangelyn]

Speaking the truth in love while gently correcting a sister in Christ is something few believers can do well. If you think someone needs "a word" PRAY 1st.

Then this is something the Church needs to correct itself on right now. :nod

Amen to that!!! :):

Actually, I think Paul's letter to Titus addresses the topic better than I did (ha! imagine that). :B:

Titus 2:3-5 from the Message
Guide older women into lives of reverence so they end up as neither gossips nor drunks, but models of goodness. By looking at them, the younger women will know how to love their husbands and children, be virtuous and pure, keep a good house, be good wives. We don't want anyone looking down on God's Message because of their behavior.

It's interesting to note that the King James translation says older women are to teach these things. The New King James says older women are to admonish younger women regarding these things. And the NIV says older women are to train these things.

I'd like to study the original language and see what the meaning really was. In today's lexicon (of Christianese), there is a huge difference between modeling, teaching, admonishing, and training. As believers, we are called to "all the above" but it is possible to focus on one technique to the exclusion of others.

[lolee]

As an "older" woman, the impression I get from younger women is that they think they are from a different culture and we "older" women just don't understand that styles are different these days...also they think just because they are young they are excused on that basis. I sometimes wonder what the younger people would do if ALL ages dressed (or UNDRESSED!) just as they do. I have a feeling my son would go bananas if I or my husband showed some of the body areas he and his wife do in public.

[evangelyn]

Supposedly, in the original language, the term used for "older" women was unique and is only used in the Bible twice. The term didn't refer to a chronological age difference per say, but was a term of position or respect, similar to the title of elder. In other words, those who are "mature" should guide those who are less mature. I believe the original term was presbyteros...or something like that. I'll have to do the research again.

Anyway, my point is that it's not a directive exclusive to ladies with grey hair (beside, I had grey hair starting in my 20's!:B: ). Women are to teach AND be teachable in matters of purity and appropriate dress, no matter what their chronological age.

So suppose someone dresses like a "streetwalker" as someone so eloquently mentioned earlier. We can come up with 20 different scenarios on how to "set them straight" and (in some cases) even provide scripture to back it up. I would suggest, however, that if we don't pray about it first and truly operate in the LOVE, our actions and opinions are not only ineffective, they are more damaging than the clothes (or lack thereof) themselves.

[trixie]

deleted

[Sarek]

At a church I went to once my best friends daughter used to wear really short skirts, I mean maybe 3 inches below her upper thigh, she was a beautiful 16 year old with a knock out figure who liked to show it off. Sometimes she wore these skirts when she sung with the worship team on stage on Sunday morning. It was distracting to me so I know it must have been distracting to the men and stumbling to some I imagine. I never understood why her mother (who dressed very conservatively) or the church staff did not say something to her.

[Morningstarlet]

I never understood why her mother (who dressed very conservatively) or the church staff did not say something to her.

The pastor of the church I used to attend allowed his daughter to come to church wearing a top that exposed most of her lower stomach. She was in her early twenties, so it's not like she was too young to know what she was doing. Sometimes people are blind when it comes to their own children. :noidea

[Ajani]

Most in our church dress modestly. There was one gal who was heavier and wore shirts that did not cover her midriff well, or her lower back. But she didn't have the money for new clothes either. She tried to at least keep the ill-fitting clothes pulled down.

But we are not a church that teaches "Sunday Best" clothing. Our pastor and most of the congregation wear jeans on Sunday. Some women wear dresses, but no one notices one way or the other (unless I wore a dress... everyone would notice then!). The kids wear jeans and t-shirts. Piercings, wild hair, etc are all fine. There are churches within our own denomination where that would never fly. So long as the focus is God and not "hey, look at how nicely and Godly we dress," or "look at the freedom our congregation has to dress however we want, versus yours..." then it's all good.

[lookup]

The clothing issue, like just about every other everyday decision we make, really gets to the "heart" of the matter, if you will. Who do we really aim to honor and please?

Do we wear certain clothes to impress others? Or to honor God, and show love and respect to other people? I was taught to dress in my best to go to God's house, because we were dressing for the King. But just recently I caught myself dressing in my best because I was trying to impress other people.

How do we teach holiness? With the intent of truly building up the body of Christ, or putting someone else in their place?

So many folks in my church have had such bad experiences with holiness preaching and teaching, that it seems the subject is never taught. And that is a real shame. Because not living a disciplined life, and not even knowing the importance of doing so, actually hurts a person in so many ways.

Not only does God want us to dress and act modestly, but teaching children and teenagers (and yes, old fogeys like me) how to live disciplined lives reaps benefits in so many aspects of a person's day to day life. A couple of Sundays ago I sat behind three teenagers who chatted and laughed all through the service, while their parents sat on the same pew, oblivious. I found myself wondering how these kids were doing in school. I've found that the kids who are taught disciplined behavior in God's house also display disciplined behavior elsewhere. I like being around kids like that.

[Blessedx4]

My generation was Hip huggers (low riding bottoms) and halter tops which I wore religiously - everyone who "was cool" wore them. But I knew better than to walk into a church wearing that.

It may be the way I was raised but even as a brand new Christian I knew in the back of my mind it was indecent to be wearing suggestive or revealing clothes into God's house.

btw scanned the forum and thought man that title sounds familiar (sure enough) :lol

[Myth Buster]

A healthy self-esteem is one that says, "I'm a valuable person because Jesus saw me as being worth enough to die for." It is not haughty, nor is it self-loathing. Furthermore, I disagree that suicide is not self-loathing and a result of bad self-esteem. Yes it is supremely selfish, because it results from a person not being able to see past their own problems. They are so consumed with their self-hatred or desperation that they have no room for love.

[quiet_reverie]

I've only read a page of this and its judgments like this that have turned my family off from going to church; why go and wonder what people are thinking of you when you can worship God wherever you want? I'd rather feel accepted and appreciated in His presence, alone, than go to a "house of God" and have people look down their noses at me - for one thing or another. If it's not the clothes, it will be something else - people love to judge. As for me, I'd rather the judment come from God, not a peer.

[Kitty2kat]

This is a two year old thread. Why was it dug up and revived?

[Gingercookiemor]

My question to those who disagree with any correction within the church over dress is - Is there any issue for which you would speak up about? Perhaps smoking in the sanctuary? How about drinking a beer in the sanctuary? How about smoking a joint in the sanctuary? How about a male or female being completely topless? How about totally nude?

Would it be wrong to tell someone we don't allow people to worship in the nude?

[Kem]

My question to those who disagree with any correction within the church over dress is - Is there any issue for which you would speak up about? Perhaps smoking in the sanctuary? How about drinking a beer in the sanctuary? How about smoking a joint in the sanctuary? How about a male or female being completely topless? How about totally nude?

Would it be wrong to tell someone we don't allow people to worship in the nude?

Agreed! the line must be drawn somewhere or there will be anarchy. Our own church tries to be very lenient and allows a lot. More, in my opinion than should be allowed. Well two weeks ago some teens in the balcony started mooning the congregation. Finally the pastor said the line had to be drawn.

[AnnaC]

Agreed! the line must be drawn somewhere or there will be anarchy. Our own church tries to be very lenient and allows a lot. More, in my opinion than should be allowed. Well two weeks ago some teens in the balcony started mooning the congregation. Finally the pastor said the line had to be drawn.

Are you serious??? :freaked That is out of control. :tsk

[Kem]

Are you serious??? :freaked That is out of control. :tsk

Yes that actually happened and is a direct result of extreme leniency on behavior and dress or lack thereof in church in my opinion.

[twelvesmaster]

Agreed! the line must be drawn somewhere or there will be anarchy. Our own church tries to be very lenient and allows a lot. More, in my opinion than should be allowed. Well two weeks ago some teens in the balcony started mooning the congregation. Finally the pastor said the line had to be drawn.
:wow

Full moons or half moons?

[Ajani]

Someone walking nude into church is breaking the law and trying to be disrespectful. Someone walking in wearing street clothes which may be less than "Sunday Best" is breaking no law and could ernestly be seeking fellowship with God. Or at least answers.

[Ajani]

I didn't even notice it was a zombie thread. Trixie brought it up and deleted her post for some reason.

[trixie]

I brought it up because I recently had to deal with this issue and wanted some insight on the topic. I replied with what really was a complaint about the situation I was dealing with, and realized that I had a wrong attitude in doing that, so I deleted it.

I apologize! But I did appreciate the insight and reading the thread helped me to better understand all sides of the issue.