Joel Osteen's sermon this morning

[cathy1953]

I think this could be classified under corrupt spirituality, so therefore I think I have posted this in the right place.

I listened to part of Joel's sermon this morning.
I did not listen to all of it because I couldn't stomach it.

He was talking about our responsibility for our own happiness and not taking on a "false sense of responsibiity" for someone else's happiness, and helping other people by trying to correct their problems, and so forth.
I really don't how bibilical that is, if the Bible says that we shouldn't do that or not.....I thought we were supposed to help our neighbors, but whether what he was saying is biblical or not, I don't know, because not once did he give a scriptural reference to back up what he was talking about.
I think I heard him memtion "God" once, the Name of Jesus never.
I went as far as I could with it, but when I saw he was not going to give any scriptures or mention Jesus, I just couldn't go any further with it.
I listened to a good 10-15 minutes.

His type of preaching is just not what I need to hear.

[sandy111]

my extended family ascribes to this nonsense thinking, and
you could sink and drown and they'd say "so what".

I think too many think we will find happyness in this world,
scripture does'nt say that. rather it speaks of joy.

and yes we are too help others, not live their life for them,
but hey, what happened to the good samaratin?

Joel is into wof. combined christian words with hinduism.

they are the COLDEST folks around.

[garvsgrl]

I watched this program this morning too and I can understand what he was saying but did he leave scripture out, I think so. I guess a lot of it was just common sense talk. I can understand there is a point where people have to take personal responsibility for themselves and we can't let others deplete all our resourses because then we would be in the same boat. I don't think he was saying not to help them, he was saying don't let them take advantage and drain you.

I am currently facing some of the things he talked about. I think it all comes down to common sense, do all you can do but if you see the one you are trying to help NOT try to help themselves then you have to draw the line. You are not doing them any good or yourself.

In Him

[vhowell]

Gee, I just drove past Lakewood Church yesterday, and noticed that in the upper left hand corner it has a sign saying "Joel Osteen Ministries". I wonder how his dad would've felt about that? It's like he's promoting himself........

I am NOT a Lakewood church/Osteen fan at all. But I will say somthing about what Cathy1953 said Joel was talking about "not taking on a "false sense of responsibiity" for someone else's happiness, and helping other people by trying to correct their problems, and so forth."

Galatians 6:2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, 5for each one should carry his own load.

The Bible says we are to to help others, but it is good to know the difference between a burden versus a load. Galatians 6:2 says "carry each others burdens...". while Galatians 6:5 says " each one should carry his own load".
The Greek word for burden means "excess burden" or a problem so heavy we can't do it oursleves. This would mean a time of sickeness or tragedy.
The Greek word for load means "cargo" or the "burden of daily toil". This means the everyday stuff we need to do, the stuff we can carry ourselves. These things are our responsibility.

The problem arises when people confuse their burdens and loads. I am one to never ask for help, and when I have a "burden" I try to carry it myself. I get so bogged down I can't go forward. Those are things I am meant to bring in prayer to the Lord or to a Christian friend to ask for help. (Like meals for when I am recovering from surgery).

However, some people want everyone to carry thier "loads" when they are perfectly able to take care of it themselves (like expecting meals brought when they just stub thier toe that day).

I am not defending Joel in any way, I just wanted to clear up what the Bible says about helping others. For more details the book Boundaries by Cloud/Townsend has this info.

[carmen]

It seems to me that many preachers today are abandoning teaching God's word directly and instead doing counseling from the pulpit without using the Bible. While what they say may not be unbiblical, it is also not the primary job of a minister, IMHO. To me, counseling is a side job; preaching God's word is the main thing and it seems that that is getting truly neglected :(:

[Sower]

I watched this program this morning too and I can understand what he was saying but did he leave scripture out, I think so. I guess a lot of it was just common sense talk. I can understand there is a point where people have to take personal responsibility for themselves and we can't let others deplete all our resourses because then we would be in the same boat. I don't think he was saying not to help them, he was saying don't let them take advantage and drain you.

I am currently facing some of the things he talked about. I think it all comes down to common sense, do all you can do but if you see the one you are trying to help NOT try to help themselves then you have to draw the line. You are not doing them any good or yourself.

In Him


I just got thru watching joels' broadcast on this. Book of song of songs forgot which verse he used ( but it was good saying):doh i too have had people in my life that try to control me and manipulate me for their adavntages~and they would still be if i would let them~ and quit letting them make my life miserable. i completely understand what joel meant. Good sermon.

Joel is right we must stand up and have tough love sometimes. Happiness starts within just like joel said:wave

[Paul Merritt]

Joel is right we must stand up and have tough love sometimes. Happiness starts within just like joel said

:nono

Perhaps happiness comes from within. JOY on the other hand comes from walking with our savior, Jesus Christ and being filled with His Holy Spirit.

[Sower]

:nono

Perhaps happiness comes from within. JOY on the other hand comes from walking with our savior, Jesus Christ and being filled with His Holy Spirit.

I never said it didnt:confused Did I?

Did you watch the broadcast?

[Paul Merritt]

Honestly I did not. I watched about half of one of his 'sermons' once because my mother asked me what I thought of him, so I was doing research, since I had never seen him prior to that. I was only able to stomache about 15 minutes or so of his talking about how WE have power in OUR WORDS and never quoting scripture or giving glory to God. My point in the previous post was that we are not called to be 'happy' and nothing of lasting value comes from within us. The only meaningful things we can ever do are done by seeking and obeying His perfect will.

[Sower]

Honestly I did not. I watched about half of one of his 'sermons' once because my mother asked me what I thought of him, so I was doing research, since I had never seen him prior to that. I was only able to stomache about 15 minutes or so of his talking about how WE have power in OUR WORDS and never quoting scripture or giving glory to God. My point in the previous post was that we are not called to be 'happy' and nothing of lasting value comes from within us. The only meaningful things we can ever do are done by seeking and obeying His perfect will.


We do have power in our words: your using power in your words right now to try to carry your point and it appears to me by the power of YOUR words~ that your'e trying to landblast my brother in Christ Joel Osteen . Yes, Joel O. does quote scripture~ it may not be as much as other preachers but i have seen scripture on the screen and heard him quote scripture.. Also too, your dead wrong when u say joel doesn't give glory to God~I have heard him with my own ears give glory to God and he never closes his broadcast without an invitation to be saved and to come know Jesus Christ!.

You said, "we are not called to be 'happy' and nothing of lasting value comes from within us."

:confused Dont know why this is an issue


you said, The only meaningful things we can ever do are done by seeking and obeying His perfect will.

Yes, your right,~so lets look at ourselves rather pointing a finger at the breathern.:wave

[Paul Merritt]

you said, The only meaningful things we can ever do are done by seeking and obeying His perfect will.

Yes, your right,~so lets look at ourselves rather pointing a finger at the breathern.

Good point. God Bless you sister, and thanks for pointing out my weaknesses. In Christ we can be strong in our weaknesses but first we must see them and ask him for help. You have blessed me.

[Sower]

:tea :grouphug Good point. God Bless you sister, and thanks for pointing out my weaknesses. In Christ we can be strong in our weaknesses but first we must see them and ask him for help. You have blessed me.

[architectlink]

Oswald Chambers has some excellent scripture on not coming between someone's salvation and God...meaning if we step in to fix someone's situation that God may have arranged, then we very well could be robbing someone of their salvation.

Prayer, prayer, prayer and love, love, love...God does the rest

[Sower]

Oswald Chambers has some excellent scripture on not coming between someone's salvation and God...meaning if we step in to fix someone's situation that God may have arranged, then we very well could be robbing someone of their salvation.

Prayer, prayer, prayer and love, love, love...God does the rest
:clap :clap

[Chris4Christ]

We do have power in our words: your using power in your words right now to try to carry your point and it appears to me by the power of YOUR words~ that your'e trying to landblast my brother in Christ Joel Osteen . Yes, Joel O. does quote scripture~ it may not be as much as other preachers but i have seen scripture on the screen and heard him quote scripture.. Also too, your dead wrong when u say joel doesn't give glory to God~I have heard him with my own ears give glory to God and he never closes his broadcast without an invitation to be saved and to come know Jesus Christ!.

As a preacher it is Joel's job to read the word of God and teach from it. It is NOT his job to be a motivational speaker that just happens to throw out a couple of quotes from Scripture while he's at it. :sigh

And let's not forget that on Larry King Live Joel Osteen REFUSED to say that those that do NOT believe in Jesus Christ, such as Muslims and Jews, will not go to heaven. He wouldn't say it. How is that possible that a Christian preacher can honestly say that "only God knows" whether Muslims who don't believe in Jesus will go to heaven!?!? God told us in HIS WORD that only those that believe in His Son will have eternal life. That is the essential gospel, and Joel Osteen didn't stand up for it when asked outright. :(:

[Sower]

As a preacher it is Joel's job to read the word of God and teach from it. It is NOT his job to be a motivational speaker that just happens to throw out a couple of quotes from Scripture while he's at it. :sigh

And let's not forget that on Larry King Live Joel Osteen REFUSED to say that those that do NOT believe in Jesus Christ, such as Muslims and Jews, will not go to heaven. He wouldn't say it. How is that possible that a Christian preacher can honestly say that "only God knows" whether Muslims who don't believe in Jesus will go to heaven!?!? God told us in HIS WORD that only those that believe in His Son will have eternal life. That is the essential gospel, and Joel Osteen didn't stand up for it when asked outright. :(:
Pray for him Chris:wave


There was a discussion in another thread about this~ I posted a letter in it he was stating an apology about the Larry King interview. maybe i can find it and Re post it for u to read. I know its on another thread about Joel~ that was recently posted maybe a few weeks back~

[Sower]

A post that I posted from a different thread a few weeks back:

Dear Friend,

Many of you have called, written or e-mailed regarding my recent appearance on Larry King Live. I appreciate your comments and value your words of correction and encouragement.

It was never my desire or intention to leave any doubt as to what I believe and Whom I serve. I believe with all my heart that it is only through Christ that we have hope in eternal life. I regret and sincerely apologize that I was unclear on the very thing in which I have dedicated my life.

Jesus declared in John 14; I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me. I believe that Jesus Christ alone is the only way to salvation. However, it wasn’t until I had the opportunity to review the transcript of the interview that I realize I had not clearly stated that having a personal relationship with Jesus is the only way to heaven. It’s about the individual’s choice to follow Him.

God has given me a platform to present the Gospel to a very diverse audience. In my desire not to alienate the people that Jesus came to save, I did not clearly communicate the convictions that I hold so precious.

I will use this as a learning experience and believe that God will ultimately use it for my good and His glory. I am comforted by the fact that He sees my heart and knows my intentions. I am so thankful that I have friends, like you, who are willing to share their concerns with me.

Thank you again to those who have written. I hope that you accept my deepest apology and see it in your heart to extend to me grace and forgiveness.

As always, I covet your prayers and I am believing for God’s best in your life,

(http://www.joelosteen.com/site/PageS...arryKingLetter)


I know the url doesnt work any more. i guess it was from a while back when he wnet into an interview with Larry King~ with that said~ this page was a copy and paste from a site that just wanted to landblast Joel: put him down: break him down~KILL him with words

Mod if youu don't think this is enough evidence by showing a voided ld link. Please feel free to remove the post!

God Bless!

[sandy111]

We do have power in our words: your using power in your words right now to try to carry your point and it appears to me by the power of YOUR words~ that your'e trying to landblast my brother in Christ Joel Osteen . Yes, Joel O. does quote scripture~ it may not be as much as other preachers but i have seen scripture on the screen and heard him quote scripture.. Also too, your dead wrong when u say joel doesn't give glory to God~I have heard him with my own ears give glory to God and he never closes his broadcast without an invitation to be saved and to come know Jesus Christ!.

You said, "we are not called to be 'happy' and nothing of lasting value comes from within us."

:confused Dont know why this is an issue


you said, The only meaningful things we can ever do are done by seeking and obeying His perfect will.

Yes, your right,~so lets look at ourselves rather pointing a finger at the breathern.:wave

we are to judge righteiously, and it seems from what you are saying we should'nt be doing that.

without Jesus we can do nothing. He said so Himself.

and even if Joel has people say a sinners prayer and there is NO repentence,
its not worth the breath.

I agree with carmen.

Just because someone has all the right words does not make them a Christian,
we have to look, check out what they say by the bible to know if they are worth listening too.

I dont think a guilt trip for being a berean is right.

[sandy111]

sower, you give far to much power to our words.

that is wof.

we are to use our words to build up, edify, and sometimes that means being told we are wrong.

and Joel is into wof, he keeps it going he will be REALLY leading a lot of folk astry. so yes, I will say something about that. and I would not care about him either if I kept my mouth shut.

he speaks of not alianating people.
well, he needs to preach the gospel regardless of whether or not it alienates folks or not. hes more concerned about whether they like "him" rather than
leading them to God. and yes, Gods word is salt and it stings and burns sometimes....

fear God more than man.

[ifnot4him]

It seems to me that many preachers today are abandoning teaching God's word directly and instead doing counseling from the pulpit without using the Bible. While what they say may not be unbiblical, it is also not the primary job of a minister, IMHO. To me, counseling is a side job; preaching God's word is the main thing and it seems that that is getting truly neglected :(:


:nod I agree!

[Sower]

we are to judge righteiously, and it seems from what you are saying we should'nt be doing that.

without Jesus we can do nothing. He said so Himself.

and even if Joel has people say a sinners prayer and there is NO repentence,
its not worth the breath.

I agree with carmen.

Just because someone has all the right words does not make them a Christian,
we have to look, check out what they say by the bible to know if they are worth listening too.

I dont think a guilt trip for being a berean is right.


What is righteous and good?~ judging Joel ministry or labeling better, worse ect. christian here. Ask yourself this:Would it be best to hurt his ministry by making negative remarks or to pray for his ministry? go figure.


:Your right~ with out Jesus we can do nothing

your right, just because someone has all the right words does not make then a christian~ but who is to say who is a christian or who is not~ its God department.

as far guilt trip: that may be your conception but the intent was not meant for guilt trip~

See, you didnt know my motive did you? but God did!:wave

[PPLGetReady]

I watched him the other night on Praise the Lord and he said that when he first began preaching he used a lot of scripture because he thought everyone else wanted him to or expected it and then he just decided that wasn't him - that wasn't his style. UNBELIEVABLE! Not his style?! Thank goodness Jesus quoted scripture or we would be in a world of hurt!

His mom is all just praising her son and is all smiles. From that what Joel, his sister, and his mom had to say about the late Mr. Osteen he was a man that stood on God's word through and through. They claim he would be very proud of Joel - I'm not so sure.

His sister and her husband and have started something called the Significant Church. Wrote a book and are going to do a documentary on pastors and small churches who have a significant impact on their community. Now that sounds worth while.

[Sower]

I watched him the other night on Praise the Lord and he said that when he first began preaching he used a lot of scripture because he thought everyone else wanted him to or expected it and then he just decided that wasn't him - that wasn't his style. UNBELIEVABLE! Not his style?! Thank goodness Jesus quoted scripture or we would be in a world of hurt!
.


Jesus is the Word:wave

Joel is not~ with that said: if Joel doesnt feed you biblicallly...fine~ flip the channel or turn to a message that will ~it doesnt mean Joel isnt helping the kingdom of God. Look at Joels letter in the previous post: he quotes scripture there~ he is not anit-scriptural but maybe not the fire and brim stoner his dad was~ for he is only man named Joel O who can help others in his own God given way~ its our decision to take hold and know God and have a relationship with Him. this is all Im saying. Pray for the man and his ministry. encourage not discourage~ no wonder Christianity within itself is crumbling~ we need to pray for each other rather than sit on the judgement seat!:doh

[Sower]

His sister and her husband and have started something called the Significant Church. Wrote a book and are going to do a documentary on pastors and small churches who have a significant impact on their community. Now that sounds worth while.


:clap :clap Praise the Lord!

[Medic911]

It seems to me that many preachers today are abandoning teaching God's word directly and instead doing counseling from the pulpit without using the Bible. While what they say may not be unbiblical, it is also not the primary job of a minister, IMHO. To me, counseling is a side job; preaching God's word is the main thing and it seems that that is getting truly neglected :(:
Well put.

[Sower]

:deadhorse beat him

________________________________________________________
Thank God for milk . Thank God for meat. All together makes my body complete!:wave

[Sower]

Hug,

Im just going to keep on praying for the body of Christ~ instead of landblasting them. God knows my heart and my intentions.....God bless you!:wave

[kathysvideos]

delete

[kathysvideos]

Well I for one, just loved to listen Joel Olsteen when I discovered him about 2 years ago.

He was the first preacher on TV I really listened to. And I watched the one hour version on Tuesday night's so I could hear the praise music.

All of this was my style and I looked forward to the shows.

About 3 months or so in, I started noticing he was kind of repetitive. So I didn't tune in as faithfully.

Then I kind of tuned in for mainly the music. Or I would catch him when I could.

This past year I watched the entire Larry King Interview. I was actually looking forward to watching it that whole week. I was so disappointed that he couldn't answer those simple questions. It literally crushed me in spirit.

He gave these deer in headlights look. I wanted to go on there and help him answer. I wanted to smack his cheeks and say, "Joel, this is your chance to evangelize! Speak to the world! Tell them about Jesus! Joel!"

I felt bad for him. He seemed in a daze and wouldn't answer anything.

Now, I still turn him on once in a great while, hear his opening joke, listen for his topic, but I find that when I do listen, it's strictly for motivation if I've had a bad day. I just don't get any Biblical inspiration out of it.

I am still awed by his arena. I would still love to visit there once as I'm in video production, and would just like to see the behind the scenes. But after witnessing him on TV in various news programs several times, I just can't call him MY television evangelist, but only my friendly neighborhood, occasional, motivational speaker.

Kathy

(Not Joel, but if someone like or similar to Joel, with his good looks and smooth talking, and easy on the ears that also attracted people in droves, but with more backbone and power, came along and offered to go work with the Israeli Conflict to work out a peace plan, I would be very afraid!)

[Sower]

Well I for one, just loved to listen Joel Olsteen when I discovered him about 2 years ago.

He was the first preacher on TV I really listened to. And I watched the one hour version on Tuesday night's so I could hear the praise music.

All of this was my style and I looked forward to the shows.

About 3 months or so in, I started noticing he was kind of repetitive. So I didn't tune in as faithfully.

Then I kind of tuned in for mainly the music. Or I would catch him when I could.

This past year I watched the entire Larry King Interview. I was actually looking forward to watching it that whole week. I was so disappointed that he couldn't answer those simple questions. It literally crushed me in spirit.

He gave these deer in headlights look. I wanted to go on there and help him answer. I wanted to smack his cheeks and say, "Joel, this is your chance to evangelize! Speak to the world! Tell them about Jesus! Joel!"

I felt bad for him. He seemed in a daze and wouldn't answer anything.

Now, I still turn him on once in a great while, hear his opening joke, listen for his topic, but I find that when I do listen, it's strictly for motivation if I've had a bad day. I just don't get any Biblical inspiration out of it.

I am still awed by his arena. I would still love to visit there once as I'm in video production, and would just like to see the behind the scenes. But after witnessing him on TV in various news programs several times, I just can't call him MY television evangelist, but only my friendly neighborhood, occasional, motivational speaker.

Kathy

(Not Joel, but if someone like or similar to Joel, with his good looks and smooth talking, and easy on the ears that also attracted people in droves, but with more backbone and power, came along and offered to go work with the Israeli Conflict to work out a peace plan, I would be very afraid!)


He was the first preacher that u watched on TV~ I guess at that time in your life~ you needed those sermons to bring u where u are today. IMO: the christian walk is a process~ Even though u have moved on much like myself too, i will never forget God used him to help me in my time of need~It may have been light and easy at the time~ but God planted a seed in me thru his ministry.I will not forget that.

Like one preacher told me once~ eat the meat and lay the bones to the side!:wave

[Tominator]

Like one preacher told me once~ eat the meat and lay the bones to the side!:wave

That is NOT Biblical.

Those bones are leaven.

[Changes]

huggybob46

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[Sower]

Like one preacher told me once~ eat the meat and lay the bones to the side!:wave


This came from a very biblical person~ I did not say it was biblical did I?:confused

[Sower]

That is NOT Biblical.

Those bones are leaven.


What bones are U referring too~ Joel Osteen and his minstry?:confused

[Elizabeth_S]

Every time I have seen Joel Osteen, and it has been more than a few times, he preaches about doing everything in our own strength. "We do this, we do that, we, us, I". When he should be preaching that all we do is done:
Galatians 2:20 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)

Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
NKJV at Thomas Nelson Thomas Nelson, Inc.

20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Philippians 4:13 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan

13I can do everything through him who gives me strength.
I can't think of a single time that he even used scripture to back up his preaching.

He is a nice guy, has good intentions, but he is a motivational speaker with New Age/WOF leanings, not a minister of God's word(mostly cause he does not use it). IMHO.

Very lightweight fluff.

[Sower]

:deadhorse

He is a nice guy, has good intentions, but he is a motivational speaker with New Age/WOF leanings, not a minister of God's word(mostly cause he does not use it). IMHO.

Very lightweight fluff.


pray for the man! goodness gracious~ :wave

[Harley]

...He was talking about our responsibility for our own happiness and not taking on a "false sense of responsibiity" for someone else's happiness, and helping other people by trying to correct their problems, and so forth.
I really don't how bibilical that is,....
this is why context and complete thoughts are so important. on the one hand the bible us quite clear about ministeruing to those in need, on the other hand, we are not responsible for anyone's hapiness...

i'm no fan of olsteen, but i'd need more context before judging this one.

[CJL]

The couple of times that I have watched him, his wife seems to talk more about Christ than he does. I have sat through many motivational speeches. Joel's sermons are very much that. Very little focus on Christ and more focus on what you should and can do in your life. I am a huge fan of Greg Laurie with Harvest. The message is always given in love but is never watered down. Hey, Christianity is not easy. The Word of God is tough and makes us look at ourselves and see how much we need Jesus in our lives. That thought process is what every preacher of the Gospel of Jesus Christ should have in the forefront of their teachings.

YBIC,
CJL

[Magdalene]

He was talking about our responsibility for our own happiness and not taking on a "false sense of responsibiity" for someone else's happiness, and helping other people by trying to correct their problems, and so forth. I

This is not the gospel, this is pop psychology SELFISHNESS 101, the whole Tough Love, kick the CO-DEPENDENTs the curb. The world tells people to take care of themselves FIRST and FOREMOST and kick anyone out way from them that may be looking for help or love.

Joel Osteen preaches the gospel of the world not of Jesus Christ.

Lets compare...

http://www.audiobooksonline.com/shopsite/media/Joel_Osteen_Your_Best_Life_Now_abridged_compact_discs.jpg

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0848731050.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Admin Edit : Hotlinking is not permitted

THE FOCUS IS ME< MYSELF AND I




NOT GOD.

[sandy111]

What is righteous and good?~ judging Joel ministry or labeling better, worse ect. christian here. Ask yourself this:Would it be best to hurt his ministry by making negative remarks or to pray for his ministry? go figure.


:Your right~ with out Jesus we can do nothing

your right, just because someone has all the right words does not make then a christian~ but who is to say who is a christian or who is not~ its God department.

as far guilt trip: that may be your conception but the intent was not meant for guilt trip~

See, you didnt know my motive did you? but God did!:wave

um,,,, did you catch that you said Joels ministry???
it is important for young believers to understand what Joel does.
and yes, pray for him. you have assumed that we dont.

the guilt trip comes from it all boiling down to "dont say anything negative about joel just pray" ....

thats not scriptural. he is not teaching the gospel. he teaches wof.
wof is occultic.

I'm sure you are very sincere and as always I encourage you to
be biblical. follow Jesus not a mans ministry.

and yes, only God knows the sons from the pigs and one day they will be separated, and God will do it.

but in the meantime I will judge fruit....and be a berean. and will warn others of bad teaching.

I am commanded to.

[mourningdove]

I heard the last part of that sermon, and I liked it.

[cathy1953]

this is why context and complete thoughts are so important. on the one hand the bible us quite clear about ministeruing to those in need, on the other hand, we are not responsible for anyone's hapiness...

i'm no fan of olsteen, but i'd need more context before judging this one.


I"m not asking you to judge him on the context of my post.

I was only stating that I had tuned in to him, and I did not hear Jesus mentioned one time............I can't take a sermon without hearing something of Jesus.

If you say you are no fan, then surely you have listened to him......make your own observations, or tune in and listen to what he says......or DOESN'T say.

[Harley]

I"m not asking you to judge him on the context of my post.

I was only stating that I had tuned in to him, and I did not hear Jesus mentioned one time............I can't take a sermon without hearing something of Jesus.

If you say you are no fan, then surely you have listened to him......make your own observations, or tune in and listen to what he says......or DOESN'T say.
Cathy1953,

by the very nature of posting an opinion about one man's sermon you are inviting others to comment - to agree or disagree with your assessment. The subsequent posts are wrought with positive and negative responses (i.e. - judgments and assessments).

you laid out your observations, their limitations, and your assessment and that is fine... and what you found lacking in olsteen i have to.

i was simply stating that i cannot comment on one man's particular sermon based on the information you gave - this was not directed at you since you already stated you listened to the bulk of the sermon to make your assessment - the comment was directed more at those that just took your snippet and joined the chorus of condemnation.

[Cricket55]

I use to be a faithful watcher of Osteens when I first became a believer. Then one day I just started getting feeling ill just lisenting to his dribble.
I just do not think much of a pastor, priest, or minister who does not preach on the word of God or talk of salvation through Jesus Christ. Is that not their job???? And not to pick their own agenda and line their pockets with riches. One day their rewards just may be all ashes.

[Sower]

Jesus said NOT to judge

Mat 7:1 Do not judge, that you may not be judged;
Mat 7:2 for with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured again to you.
Mat 7:3 But why do you look on the twig that is in the eye of your brother, but do not see the log in your eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how will you say to your brother, Allow me to cast out the twig from your eye; and behold, the log is in your eye!
Mat 7:5 Hypocrite, first cast the log out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to cast the twig out of the eye of your brother.



Luk 6:37 Judge not, and in no way be judged. Do not condemn, and in no way you will be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.


Rom 14:10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why also do you despise your brother? For all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it has been written, "As I live, says the Lord, that every knee will bow to Me, and every tongue confess to God." Isa. 45:23
Rom 14:12 So then each one of us will give account concerning himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Then let us no longer judge one another, but rather judge this, not to put a stumbling-block or an offense toward a brother.


:clap :clap

[cathy1953]

How does one add someone to their ignore list?
I have never used the feature, but feel the need and desire to do so now.

Thanks for replies as to how to activate this feature.

[Sower]

yeah, how do u use the ignore button?

[cathy1953]

yeah, how do u use the ignore button?



Sower..............I have to go off line now, and go to work.....if you find out how to do the ignore thing would you send me a message please?

I would appreciate it.

Thanks

[Sower]

I dont know how if i find out i will~ may i ask, why u need it? you can pm if you like!!

God bless:wave

[Sower]

We often speak of having to be accountable for our actions before Christ at the Bema Seat. As mentioned in the other posts the Bema Seat is about our reward and not about salvation. Being accountable is not about our sins either in this regard. All that we do will bring Glory to God. Either to our joy or to our shame. If we fail miserably, God is glorified in His Grace, Love, and Mercy to us, and in that in Christ we are forgiven. If we do as the Spirit leads us to, we have no shame, and God is glorified.

All our tears will be wiped away, praise God! So it's not that making the wrong choices in life or failing to act as appropriately as we should in every situation is putting our salvation in jeopardy. It's that we will have to look into the eyes of our Lord and Savior, and we will know where we failed and where we made improper choices, and we will be around our brothers and sisters whom we may have treated badly...

None of us want to be ashamed in that day for how we acted and treated our own heavenly family. :cry

:hug
got this quote from another thread.

does this apply to joel too~:wave

[Sower]

I use to be a faithful watcher of Osteens when I first became a believer. Then one day I just started getting feeling ill just lisenting to his dribble.
I just do not think much of a pastor, priest, or minister who does not preach on the word of God or talk of salvation through Jesus Christ. Is that not their job???? And not to pick their own agenda and line their pockets with riches. One day their rewards just may be all ashes.


Yes, when u first came to be a belieiver u listened and watched~shouldnt u just say that u moved on to more than what joel preached rather than saying "just started getting feeling ill just lisenting to his dribble." :confused


you said,"I just do not think much of a pastor, priest, or minister who does not preach on the word of God or talk of salvation through Jesus Christ."

thats fine..but dont forget you were once a faithful listener~ you said it yourself, but now your moving on ~ let someone else come where u started and start just as U did ~ and be fed milk~ it has brought u where your at today..right? Let God do his perfect will in each and all of us~ that where it starts my friend in Christ Jesus!.:wave


Just to let everyone know: JO is not my favorite preacher nor he is he at the bottom of list. I know he doesnt preach on hell( O' how i wish he would) with that said~ all these threads about JO have bothered me to max~pray for me will ya~ as i do not wont to be a stumbling block for Christ and bring in desention amongst us here nor make anyone become angry with me. I love U all~and this place (RR) I call my home on the net~ love this board~ we all are going thru a process of the Christian walk until that day we are called home!!!:wave

God bless!!!!

[davido]

the other day joel stated that 100 years ago people lived longer. longer than what cats? isn't that why girls got married when they were 13 so that by the time they were old, like 40, they already had there familys made. He tells a funny story and smiles alot.

[HisdaughterJen]

Personally, I see Joel's role in the body of Christ as a Teacher to the body (as opposed to the world) on how to live in a practical way full of joy which is pleasing to God.

I never considered his messages to be to "general audiences" nor about salvation, repentance and hell.

He's doing exactly what he's been called to do: teach the body how to live a life of joy. I think he's doing a great job at it.

[MidnightCry]

Many people DO like him -- thus, the HUGE "audience" each week. The Bible says that those who preach and teach will be held accountable for what they say and do. God will hold him responsible for his faithfulness or lack thereof to the vast following he's been given.

[rlbenn]

I hesitate to throw my two cents in on this but I think there is just too much criticism of all evangelists. Too many have been torn down, not by the secular populace but by Christians. We seem to be very quick to reject anyone who is not at least as perfect as Jesus. (Remember he healed on the Sabetha and ate with publicans and sinners.)

I was brought back to the Lord in the 80’s by a strange combination of Fred Price, Kenneth Copeland and Mike Warnke.

Back then I was working with a group of people who would run at the sight of a bible. But they would go be entertained at a Warnke concert. Five of them were saved at a concert in Orlando. Two were so embarrassed by the ‘revelations’ about Mike Warnke’s life that they drifted away from the church. The other three have gone on to grow in the Lord and bring up children (and now grandchildren) to know Jesus.

“By their works ye shall know them.”

This is not to defend what he did. It is to say that our salvation does not come from any preacher. It comes from the blood of Jesus Christ the son of God.

The idea of evangelism is to get people to the cross so they can begin to walk and grow in Christ. Joel Osteen is doing that.

[Sower]

I hesitate to throw my two cents in on this but I think there is just too much criticism of all evangelists. Too many have been torn down, not by the secular populace but by Christians. We seem to be very quick to reject anyone who is not at least as perfect as Jesus. (Remember he healed on the Sabetha and ate with publicans and sinners.)

I was brought back to the Lord in the 80’s by a strange combination of Fred Price, Kenneth Copeland and Mike Warnke.

Back then I was working with a group of people who would run at the sight of a bible. But they would go be entertained at a Warnke concert. Five of them were saved at a concert in Orlando. Two were so embarrassed by the ‘revelations’ about Mike Warnke’s life that they drifted away from the church. The other three have gone on to grow in the Lord and bring up children (and now grandchildren) to know Jesus.

“By their works ye shall know them.”

This is not to defend what he did. It is to say that our salvation does not come from any preacher. It comes from the blood of Jesus Christ the son of God.

The idea of evangelism is to get people to the cross so they can begin to walk and grow in Christ. Joel Osteen is doing that.

:clap :clap God works in mysterious ways!!!!:wave

[shotgunbadger]

My grandmother loves Joel, she credits him for her turning her life around.

To be honest, I don't see the harm, he's helping people on this world is that really a bad thing in this day and age?

[DakotaRose]

My grandmother loves Joel, she credits him for her turning her life around.

To be honest, I don't see the harm, he's helping people on this world is that really a bad thing in this day and age?

Shouldn't she be crediting JESUS for turning her life around, and not Joel? And this is not to say anything about Joel good or bad, because I never watch the man and cannot therefore give an educated opinion on that issue. But to credit the pastor and not the LORD for having turned her life around just concerns me. Don't get me wrong, I am glad she turned her life around. I just think the credit and the glory should go to God, not any man.

[Rainbo2]

My grandmother loves Joel, she credits him for her turning her life around.

To be honest, I don't see the harm, he's helping people on this world is that really a bad thing in this day and age?

Joel does not use the opportunity he has been given, he has been given the opportunity to reach the masses, yet he refuses to make a strong stand for the gospel. If someone wants a motivational speaker who is wishy washy on God he is one of the best ever. If someone wants to hear the truth than they better look elsewhere. The Lord say in Rev.if we are lukewarm He will spew us from his mouth. Near as I can tell Osteen is lukewarm.

Here is a quote from his interview with Larry King.

Larry King: "Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't."

Joel Osteen: "Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you're a believer in God, you're going to have some good works. I think it's a cop-out to say I'm a Christian but I don't ever do anything..."

Larry King: "What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?"

Joel Osteen: "You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know..."

Larry King: "If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?"

Joel Osteen: "Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus."
(Joel Osteen, "Larry King live," Aired June 20, 2005)

[Sower]

Joel does not use the opportunity he has been given, he has been given the opportunity to reach the masses, yet he refuses to make a strong stand for the gospel. If someone wants a motivational speaker who is wishy washy on God he is one of the best ever. If someone wants to hear the truth than they better look elsewhere. The Lord say in Rev.if we are lukewarm He will spew us from his mouth. Near as I can tell Osteen is lukewarm.

Here is a quote from his interview with Larry King.

I hope your praying for Joel~ if you think he has these issues....:wave

I know we all need prayer. I pray for his ministry and the people in that church.

[Chris4Christ]

I hope your praying for Joel~ if you think he has these issues....:wave

I know we all need prayer. I pray for his ministry and the people in that church.

I hope that, in addition to praying for Joel, you are also willing to be a Berean, as scripture instructs us to be, and are willing to hold Joel accoutable for those teachings that don't line up with scripture.

It is a lot more important for us to stand up for the truth of God's Word than it is for us to make excuses for bad teaching just so that a man we like doesn't "look bad." :sigh

[boxer77]

I dont know why they chant that saying before they begin the service, it is kinda diffrent.
I take Joel olsteen like I take the Message translation of the bible. Nice storys, but not a solid feeding as a word for word reading from a good interpretation of Gods word.
I wouldnt be supirsed if they had concession stands open outside the sanctuary.
I went to a church with a coffee shop in it, and only about 10 people I saw had bibles with them, a church of 5,000. Fluff churches, how do we get rid of these fluff churches? And get some true preaching Gods Alimighty Powerful word!

[roadrunner570]

I'm watching him right now. Not sure what translation he is using, but he misquotes Eph 6:14

Eph 6:14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in plac

But he says "Put on the breastplate of God's approval"

Not sure where he gets that from.:confused

[Leuretha]

Eph 6:14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in plac

I'm watching him right now. Not sure what translation he is using, but he misquotes Eph 6:14



But he says "Put on the breastplate of God's approval"

Not sure where he gets that from.:confused

Sounds like he is changing the wording of the Bible to make them say what he wants them to say. Itching ears and all of that you know...

[Rainbo2]

I hope your praying for Joel~ if you think he has these issues....:wave

I know we all need prayer. I pray for his ministry and the people in that church.

I don't think he has those issues, I know he has them. Type Joel Osteen, into the search on this site and see what comes up. Go to some of the sites that are given, or read the articles that come up. I have also watched some of his shows, it's cotton candy preaching, it taste good but has very little substance.

I do not speak out against preachers, or churches unless I know that they are doing wrong. You will never see me voicing an opinion about some of the preachers who are discussed and are held to be preaching the wrong thing because I have never heard them preach. With Joel Osteen it isn't just that one interview I am going on, in breaking news they have an article from a recent interview that occured just a few days ago, where he is saying that homosexuality is not Gods best. Link http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=274348

I do pray for all of the preachers, especially the ones teaching false doctrine.

[roadrunner570]

You know, what he says isn't bad per se. I mean, he says if you mess up to ask for God's forgiveness and not beat yourself up over it or let your self feel down about it all the time. Okay, that is fine...but he says it in such a way that almost makes it sound like its okay. He keeps talking about the "breastplate of God's approval". That and he focuses a lot on "feeling good about who you are".

[Sower]

I hope that, in addition to praying for Joel, you are also willing to be a Berean, as scripture instructs us to be, and are willing to hold Joel accoutable for those teachings that don't line up with scripture.

It is a lot more important for us to stand up for the truth of God's Word than it is for us to make excuses for bad teaching just so that a man we like doesn't "look bad." :sigh



I know God is still working on all of us right Chris? Do any of us have it totally together? This includes JO. i would rather pray for them rather than slander and discourage Gods' ministry. If you feel the need to contact the ministry to tell them how U feel~Their are some wonderful ministers there that i have personally talked too that have a love for Jesus :wave

[Chris4Christ]

I know God is still working on all of us right Chris? Do any of us have it totally together? This includes JO. i would rather pray for them rather than slander and discourage Gods' ministry. If you feel the need to contact the ministry to tell them how U feel~Their are some wonderful ministers there that i have personally talked too that have a love for Jesus :wave

:hrm

Can you show me where one person in this thread has slandered Joel Osteen or anybody else? Do you know what that means? It means a deliberate FALSE statement made about another. Can you please show me where anybody here has slandered him or has approved of others slandering him? Or is this just a strawman?

And I also haven't seen anybody here trying to discourage God's ministry. Please don't try and twist statements made about Joel Osteen's teachings to be statements made against God!

The "none of us has it totally together" rebuttal...another strawman. Nobody here said anything about wanting perfection from Joel Osteen. But we do want the truth. And, whether you like it or not, a pastor is held to a higher standard than that rest. But, of course, in the end we are all accountable for how we present God's Word. If we twist it up to make it more palatable to the masses, we WILL answer for it. If we sit by and say nothing against a teacher that we know is twisting God's word, we WILL answer for that as well.

Christ gave His life for us. I don't think it's asking too much that we stand up for His Word above everything/everyone else. The Word of God will always be more important to me than any man.

[Dear2HIM]

Oswald Chambers has some excellent scripture on not coming between someone's salvation and God...meaning if we step in to fix someone's situation that God may have arranged, then we very well could be robbing someone of their salvation.

Prayer, prayer, prayer and love, love, love...God does the rest

interesting. Do you remember if he had any scripture to back that teaching?
It may make sense in our human reasoning....but I wonder if it has biblical reasoning? :confused

[Dear2HIM]

I hope your praying for Joel~ if you think he has these issues....:wave

I know we all need prayer. I pray for his ministry and the people in that church.

We should pray for everyone who has issues? :confused

[Sower]

Yes, issues meaning not being problem free....

[Sower]

Chris this poster couldnt have said it better:

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nashville, TN

It's a darn shame that we as Christians cant even agree on certain things. That we all seem to have the inside scoop and answers. We dont know any of these people hearts only the Lord does. Yes they have probably turned people from the gospel but darn it we probably all have with our actions in one way or another. How many people have they also brought to the Lord. should be the question? None of us are perfect and no we are not to judge others. Thats the Lords job not ours. Pray for them send them letters, encourage them but most of all LOVE them. Jesus said Love one another as I have loved you. He loved us unconditionally without any requirements etc, when we were ugly and lost and on our way to hell. We should do the same not say or come across as holier than thou. If the Lord were to lay open our hearts the only thing in there worth anything is HIM. Stop beating and talking bad about any other christian. That is the Lords Bride you are talking about period. Not just some false prophet, or intentionally deceiver etc etc. We all have faults whether we know it or not, whether we acknowledge them or not. These people are no different. They do come in Jesus name and they do lead people to the Lord. They may not do what "we" would like but they are doing what they feel led of the Lord to do. The Lord will take care of the rest. Im tired, tired of the look at this person, look at that person, look what they say, look what they do, oh my look how they topple and fall and shake. Their walk of faith is between them and the Lord only. They will answer to Him for themselves just as we all will. Even though I dont agree with everythin we shouldnt talk bad about Jesus Christs bride. The people he choose to spend eternity with. We as the body and the bride of Christ need to work on 1 Cor chapter 13. NO questions asked.

If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.
And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.
For we know partially and we prophesy partially, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.
At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.
So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love....

This whole post is for me as well, trust me.

In HIs Love,

ROn W

[Elizabeth_S]

Honestly I did not. I watched about half of one of his 'sermons' once because my mother asked me what I thought of him, so I was doing research, since I had never seen him prior to that. I was only able to stomache about 15 minutes or so of his talking about how WE have power in OUR WORDS and never quoting scripture or giving glory to God. My point in the previous post was that we are not called to be 'happy' and nothing of lasting value comes from within us. The only meaningful things we can ever do are done by seeking and obeying His perfect will.

You are right, Joel can be hard to take. In all his sermons he preaches you will make yourself happy by thinking yourself happy. Every sermon I have seen him preach, and I have seen quite a few, you are what makes you happy, strong, or whatever. Olsteen never talks about our lives being hid in Christ. All Osteen talks about is self and what self does, not what we do in Christ's strength.

Joel is a nice guy - new agey, but he is a motivational speaker, nothing more.

[Elizabeth_S]

:hrm

Can you show me where one person in this thread has slandered Joel Osteen or anybody else? Do you know what that means? It means a deliberate FALSE statement made about another. Can you please show me where anybody here has slandered him or has approved of others slandering him? Or is this just a strawman?

And I also haven't seen anybody here trying to discourage God's ministry. Please don't try and twist statements made about Joel Osteen's teachings to be statements made against God!

The "none of us has it totally together" rebuttal...another strawman. Nobody here said anything about wanting perfection from Joel Osteen. But we do want the truth. And, whether you like it or not, a pastor is held to a higher standard than that rest. But, of course, in the end we are all accountable for how we present God's Word. If we twist it up to make it more palatable to the masses, we WILL answer for it. If we sit by and say nothing against a teacher that we know is twisting God's word, we WILL answer for that as well.

Christ gave His life for us. I don't think it's asking too much that we stand up for His Word above everything/everyone else. The Word of God will always be more important to me than any man.

You are right, no one slandered Joel, and Paul, the Apostle calls us to examine ALL teachings by those who say they are putting God's word before us.

I know I am tired of people who get upset when a teacher is examined by those here who have more than a passing acquaintance with God's word. If a teacher is sound, teaching as God has shown us in His word, then that MINISTER of God's word will bear up under the scrutiny, as God's word says it will.

Good post Chris.

Joel is a nice guy, but hardly biblical. We don't stand on our own strength, God says we need the strength Jesus gives us to be anything. We have died to this world and are hid in Christ. Not the "feel good about yourself and all is right iwth the world" Joel Osteen message of the world.

[Dear2HIM]

Yes, issues meaning not being problem free....


I couldn't possibly pray for everyone who has issues. Not enough time.

[Sower]

Dear2Him,

I pray for the whole world~ for the lost and the saved people.

Dear Lord,

I pray for all the lost souls in this world that they will have another opportunity to hear your word~ May someone be sent to them so that they may have an opportunity to except you and to know you by developing a personal relationship with U. and Dear Lord help the ones that profess your name to be a powerful witness to others and not become a stumbling block for the kingdom. Keep them in your will O'Lord In your Holy and precious name.

Its that easy~ God knows our hearts and our intentions


God bless!!!

[Dear2HIM]

Dear2Him,

I pray for the whole world~ for the lost and the saved people.

Dear Lord,

I pray for all the lost souls in this world that they will have another opportunity to hear your word~ May someone be sent to them so that they may have an opportunity to except you and to know you by developing a personal relationship with U. and Dear Lord help the ones that profess your name to be a powerful witness to others and not become a stumbling block for the kingdom. Keep them in your will O'Lord In your Holy and precious name.

Its that easy~ God knows our hearts and our intentions


God bless!!!

I didn't know that is what you meant. I thought you meant that we should be praying for Joel Olsteen specifically, as that is how it sounded when you asked Chris4Christ if she prays for him since she believes he preaches error.

I was thinking about it, and thought.."I don't pray for every preacher in error" I am aware of a good deal of them. I pray for some, not every day, but certainly not all.

Thanks for clearing up what you meant :):

[Sower]

I hope that, in addition to praying for Joel, you are also willing to be a Berean, as scripture instructs us to be, and are willing to hold Joel accoutable for those teachings that don't line up with scripture.

It is a lot more important for us to stand up for the truth of God's Word than it is for us to make excuses for bad teaching just so that a man we like doesn't "look bad." :sigh

A Berean is one who has a balanced viewpoint. We listen to what someone has to say because we are eager to learn the word of God more perfectly. We realize that we have not learned it all. But then, we take what we have heard and compare it with the Bible. Then, if both match, we have learned something and increased our knowledge of God's Word, rightly divided.

Chriis4Christ also added, "are willing to hold Joel accoutable for those teachings that don't line up with scripture" The only thing I have seen with Joel and i have said this before is that he doesnt preach on Hell~ I have repeatly said this bothers me. I am in no way defending Joel agianst the word of God. he professes to be my brother in Christ~ Im letting God handle it. Im doing my part by praying for the man Some times Bereans professing folks can take this out of contents and twist it as well. As far as slanderous ~ Just to clear this up with U~ There has been statements made agianst our brother on this website that Im surprised that have come out of other professing Christians mouth. No, Im not going to dig dirt up~ JO is not out there telling people Jesus is not God and He is telling people about the gospel even though some of U call it milk~ I refer it to as a gate to newcomers ~Hey, everybodys got a job to do. Instead of putting down the brother.. Instead,Tell your testimony on what have u done for the kingdom lately. Im done for now. God bless.:wave

[JesusLover_2002]

got this quote from another thread.

does this apply to joel too~:wave


No it does not, because He's afraid to tell others about Jesus Christ to the audience. He is more into Wof than he his about winning the lost to Christ Jesus. And he will be held accountable for turning people away from the truth. Im so thankful i've been reading things on false prophets on this thread. There many out there on tbn, and I do not watch them, because its more about the money and not winning people to Jesus Christ. Jesus said, we will know them by their fruits, and we are not juding him by his appearance, but we are judginOriginally Posted by peoplz266
I highlighted a couple things in your post I wanted to reply to.

You say we are not to judge other people, or say anything bad about another person who says they're a Christian, so how does that fit in with Scripture? "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."- 1 John 4:1

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them."- Matthew 7:15-16

"I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false."- Revelation 2:2

I agree that we shouldn't call them names and mock them, BUT we must test what they teach. Their faith isn't between them and the Lord alone, because they put themselves in the position to teach others, therefore what they teach and believe must be tested against Scripture, if it's found to be false we should call them what they are, false teachers/false prophets. And we shouldn't be afraid to warn others of the lies they teach.

Back in the early church there were many who taught that Jesus' death on the cross wasn't sufficient, but that they also needed to be circumcised and follow the Jewish law. Did the church just pray for the people and love them, saying "We can't judge them!" No, they tested what they taught against scripture, and warned their brothers to stay away from these false teachers.

This isn't about being a "better Christian" either. I know I don't do nearly as much for the Lord as I could, and I admit I've sinned a whole heck of a lot. It's true that we can never know their heart and motives, that is for the Lord alone, but we do know what they teach, and it is a dangerous lie.

If it weren't for all the people here on RR testing these teachers, I would still be following these scam artists hook line-n-sinker. As a baby Christian just starting my walk with the Lord, I used to believe almost everything they said. Now I see how deceptive it is, "Every Christian is a god. … "You don't have a God in you; you are one," No we're not, there is only one God. "our words have power" Only God has power in His Words "The very first thing on Jesus` agenda was to get rid of poverty!" No, it was our redemption. "Faith is a spiritual force....It is substance. Faith has the ability to effect natural substance." Our faith alone can't do anything, we must have faith in God. We can't manipulate God into answering our prayer by using a "spiritual law".

With that said, we should pray that they might repent and turn from these false teachings as well, and that others have their eyes opened to these deadly doctrines. g him on his doctrine, which is not biblical at all.


read this its from another thread on the end times chat and He posted a lot of points on this matter. Joel osteen is a false prophets none of his teachings are true and this is one we should stay away from.

[CaiperLane]

As a preacher it is Joel's job to read the word of God and teach from it. It is NOT his job to be a motivational speaker that just happens to throw out a couple of quotes from Scripture while he's at it. :sigh

And let's not forget that on Larry King Live Joel Osteen REFUSED to say that those that do NOT believe in Jesus Christ, such as Muslims and Jews, will not go to heaven. He wouldn't say it. How is that possible that a Christian preacher can honestly say that "only God knows" whether Muslims who don't believe in Jesus will go to heaven!?!? God told us in HIS WORD that only those that believe in His Son will have eternal life. That is the essential gospel, and Joel Osteen didn't stand up for it when asked outright. :(:


Jesus said: If you deny me before men, I will deny you before the Father.....

[sandy111]

Jesus said: If you deny me before men, I will deny you before the Father.....

this right here should raise red flags everywhere on JO.
that is apostasy, not milk. its a basic thing.

agreed Jesuslover 2002, very well put.

[SetApart]

something about this thread is not sitting well with my spirit...i am going to pray about it and see if i can find discernment...

[rlbenn]

"When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things." I Cor. xiii. 11.

Granted Joel Osteen’s sermons are cotton candy and he is not ministering to your needs. But people come in all shapes and sizes. God did not take one cookie cutter and turn out the populations of the world. There was a time when Osteen’s message would have been as much or more than I could take. But I walk with God, the operative word being WALK. My spiritual needs are not the same as they were thirty years ago. That does not mean I have forgotten just how hesitantly I came to the Lord.

Granted he does not publicly condemn the masses of people who do not believe that Christ is the only begotten son of God. But the fastest way to end any hope of converting a devout Muslim or Hindu is to lambaste them with hell and damnation. Those religions have more than enough hell and damnation to satisfy anyone who is drawn to that type of preaching.

I have spent most of my life in the middle and far east. I have heard that Joel Osteen has lived there as well. If his father was a successful missionary Joel would have leaned that the best way to reach the loveless is to demonstrate love not condemnation. God’s enduring love for all the world is the most glaring difference between the Religion of Submission (Islam for those of you in Rio Linda) and the Religion of Redemption. Because of that love He sent His son to die for me instead of asking me to strap a bomb to my chest and walk into a crowed restaurant to die for Him.

If Joel Osteen is preaching in direct opposition to the Bible then he will reap what he has sown. But his message seems to be “I am happy and healthy and God wants you to be too.” That is a message much of world has yet to hear.

[Chris4Christ]

When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things. I Cor. xiii. 11.

Granted Joel Osteen’s sermons are cotton candy and he is not ministering to your needs. But people come in all shapes and sizes. God did not take one cookie cutter and turn out the populations of the world. There was a time when Osteen’s message would have been as much or more than I could take. But I walk with God, the operative word being WALK. My spiritual needs are not the same as they were thirty years ago. That does not mean I have forgotten just how hesitantly I came to the Lord.
That is why, if a pastor teaches from the Word of God, from cover to cover, he will be sure to reach all those different people. He will dish out milk and he will dish out meat at different times. That is what a pastor is supposed to do...feed ALL of his flock. A pastor is not supposed to continually dish out milk. People will not mature that way, so, yes, it is harmful.

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Milk feeds the babes and meat feeds the aged. BOTH are needed in a diverse flock.

Granted he does not publicly condemn the masses of people who do not believe that Christ is the only begotten son of God. But the fastest way to end any hope of converting a devout Muslim or Hindu is to lambaste them with hell and damnation. Those religions have more than enough hell and damnation to satisfy anyone who is drawn to that type of preaching.
There's a difference between going out of your way to publicly condemn other religions and refusing to answer a DIRECT QUESTION about the necessity of Jesus Christ. It is not acceptable to say "I don't know" when asked if Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That's not debatable. That is THE essential tenet of Christianity. If a man is afraid to tell that to others, he has no right calling himself a pastor.

I have spent most of my life in the middle and far east. I have heard that Joel Osteen has lived there as well. If his father was a successful missionary Joel would have leaned that the best way to reach the loveless is to demonstrate love not condemnation. God’s enduring love for all the world is the most glaring difference between the Religion of Submission (Islam for those of you in Rio Linda) and the Religion of Redemption. Because of that love He sent His son to die for me instead of asking me to strap a bomb to my chest and walk into a crowed restaurant to die for Him.

If Joel Osteen is preaching in direct opposition to the Bible then he will reap what he has sown. But his message seems to be “I am happy and healthy and God wants you to be too.” That is a message much of world has yet to hear.
That's great...for a motivational speaker. However, he is a pastor of a HUGE church, the largest in this country, I believe. He cannot just focus on the nebulous concept of love. That's new age nonsense. He needs to stand firm on the true, selfless, sacrificial love of Jesus Christ and the truth of His gospel. It isn't always going to be easy to stand up for Christ, but the Lord warned us it wouldn't be. That doesn't give us license to hide the truth because it is unpallatable to unbelievers.

Mat 10:34-38 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Speak the truth in love...but do not speak of love without the truth.

[rlbenn]

I agree that his answer of “I don’t know” is not scriptural and is not one that I would be comfortable making, (or even hearing). But would you read in your Bible Luke 20:1 thru 20:8. Jesus does not directly answer the questions of a hostile crowd.

“Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority?”

Nor did he directly answer them when asked if he was the son of God. Instead he said, “Ye say that I am.”

As for his preaching “the whole gospel”, I have never been in any church where that has happened. Joel Osteen just teaches less than most. That being said the person who taught me first grade addition and subtraction is not the person who taught me calculus.

No doubt there are many people in his congregation that will never look for more than he is offering. I pray that most, having sampled the water will feel the steady call of the Holy Sprit for more and will move on to other teachers.

[sandy111]

Nor did he directly answer them when asked if he was the son of God. Instead he said, “Ye say that I am.”

that is KJV, now go read it in the NIV.

Joel is turning people away from Jesus.
the gospel is the gospel. hell is real, heaven is real.

lambblasting people only with hell is ridiculas, we are sinners in need of a savior. we choose.

just because someone has a church and says they are a christian,
does'nt mean they are. thats why we are to test the spirits.

Joel teaches wof. thats into the occult.

and as far as cotton candy, fluff. God does'nt say be happy he says BE HOLY. see the twisting?

[rlbenn]

Call me old fashion but I’ve never really trusted NVI.

Also I would say that it is a positive thing to get that many people out of bed on a Sunday morning, even if it’s only to have Joel Osteen wave a Bible in front of them. At that it is closer than many Houstonians get to the Word of God. Some of them might even be reading it. In the battle for souls I would encourage even small victories.

[Moony2ns]

I agree that his answer of “I don’t know” is not scriptural and is not one that I would be comfortable making, (or even hearing). But would you read in your Bible Luke 20:1 thru 20:8. Jesus does not directly answer the questions of a hostile crowd.

First of all, it wasn't just a hostile crowd, but a group of religious leaders who questioned Him as He taught in the temple challenging His authority, so your scriptural application is out of context. Regardless, if we compare Jesus' answer to Joel's non-answer, we see a huge difference...

Jesus answered and said to them, "I will also ask you a question, and you tell Me; 'Was the baptism of John from heaven or from men?'"

But the really interesting thing is that the Pharisees answered His question with "I don't know." Hmmm... that sounds familiar, doesn't it? :sigh

So they answered that they did not know where it came from.

Jesus answered them in a way that exposed their motives. Interesting, isn't it.

[roadrunner570]

First of all, it wasn't just a hostile crowd, but a group of religious leaders who questioned Him as He taught in the temple challenging His authority, so your scriptural application is out of context. Regardless, if we compare Jesus' answer to Joel's non-answer, we see a huge difference...



But the really interesting thing is that the Pharisees answered His question with "I don't know." Hmmm... that sounds familiar, doesn't it? :sigh



Jesus answered them in a way that exposed their motives. Interesting, isn't it.


MOONY HATH SPOKEN!!!

[Moony2ns]

MOONY HATH SPOKEN!!!


:lol

[Kathe]

Repost of what I wrote in the TBN thread in End Times Chat. I have been down the JO road. Not a pretty thing. Kathe


There is the TRUTH and then there are those trying to get around or dumb down or white wash the TRUTH. I will keep standing for the TRUTH.

Jesus Christ is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE! The bible is the Word of God. Change the Word and you have a lie. Say what you want, whitewash it all you want but it will still be a lie.

How many lies does it take to make a liar? I think Jesus would say just one.

So if a preacher gets up on TV in front of millions of viewers and tells just one lie about being a Christian or what it says in the bible and by doing so turns just one person away from the truth of the Word of God that is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. One persons salvation causes the angels in heaven to rejoice so I believe that causing just one person not to be saved causes heartbreak.

How many have to be deceived in order for us to stand up against it? I say ONE! Can God turn the bad into good? Of course He can. But He shouldn't have to do it in this case. These are supposed men and women of God.

We are falling for the old line that my teenagers used to use against me. "It's only a little bit ....."

I say a little rat poison ruins the whole stew. One drop of black paint into a pot of white takes away the pristine whiteness and turns it to a shade of grey.

The Word of God is pristine white. It is NOT a shade of grey.

Unless someone tells the WHOLE TRUTH of the Word, especially when they have influence over millions, they should stop.

My heart is heavy with so many Christians wanting to let them slide because there is a little truth in what they say and they want to overlook the lies and untruths.

My opinion. Kathe

[Chris4Christ]

As for his preaching “the whole gospel”, I have never been in any church where that has happened.
You have never been to a church that goes through the entire Word of God, from beginning to end, not only teaching the whole gospel, but everything that comes before and after it? That is very sad, if it is true, but I can assure you that there are plenty of churches that do just that. I hope you may find one.

[Kathe]

You have never been to a church that goes through the entire Word of God, from beginning to end, not only teaching the whole gospel, but everything that comes before and after it? That is very sad, if it is true, but I can assure you that there are plenty of churches that do just that. I hope you may find one.


I agree. If you're not in a church that teaches the whole gospel then you need to find another church. Kathe

[rlbenn]

Can someone please tell me why we, as Christians, spend so much time explaining why someone else can’t possibly be a Christian? I have seen this happen so many times. A small church in India falling apart over vegetarianism, some believing that for former Hindus to continue as vegetarians was a denial of their conversion to Christianity and others arguing that it was not. A prayer group in Saudi Arabia literally coming to blows over whether we should be praying to God or to Jesus or if it was the same thing.

I have prayed and studied with both Catholics and Protestants in countries where it was illegal to have a Bible. I have taken communion from a Catholic priest in Saudi Arabia where it would have been worth his life if he were discovered. You would think that under those conditions Christians would be willing to lay aside differences of doctrine. But even there some people seemed more concerned with being Right than with being Righteous.

The Church is the Body of Christ. Hands and Arms and Feet and Legs, people are called to different ministries. I am content as a foot, wandering the darker regions of the world as a Christian for thirty-two years. (I shutter to remember the years I wasted and the opportunities I squandered as a sinner.)

Yet I have been told by honest believing Christians that unless I was “called to minister in foreign lands as a Missionary” I shouldn’t be speaking to those people about Jesus. They believe that because I was working in a secular job that I could not possibly have been put there by God. They have chapter and verse to support their views and perhaps they are correct and I am wrong. But I know that I my soul would not allow me to stay silent when the opportunity to share was there, even if it was only a word of encouragement.

I don’t like defending Joel Osteen’s ministry because honestly I don’t get much from it. But I have been in the Lakewood Church on two occasions with friends who were getting something. While there, we were surrounded by other people who also felt that their needs were being met. Someday, if they are not discouraged by to many well meaning Brothers in Christ they will graduate from milk to pabulum. I can only pray that when they do they don’t then join the general finger pointing.

[sandy111]

Can someone please tell me why we, as Christians, spend so much time explaining why someone else can’t possibly be a Christian? I have seen this happen so many times. A small church in India falling apart over vegetarianism, some believing that for former Hindus to continue as vegetarians was a denial of their conversion to Christianity and others arguing that it was not. A prayer group in Saudi Arabia literally coming to blows over whether we should be praying to God or to Jesus or if it was the same thing.

I have prayed and studied with both Catholics and Protestants in countries where it was illegal to have a Bible. I have taken communion from a Catholic priest in Saudi Arabia where it would have been worth his life if he were discovered. You would think that under those conditions Christians would be willing to lay aside differences of doctrine. But even there some people seemed more concerned with being Right than with being Righteous.

The Church is the Body of Christ. Hands and Arms and Feet and Legs, people are called to different ministries. I am content as a foot, wandering the darker regions of the world as a Christian for thirty-two years. (I shutter to remember the years I wasted and the opportunities I squandered as a sinner.)

Yet I have been told by honest believing Christians that unless I was “called to minister in foreign lands as a Missionary” I shouldn’t be speaking to those people about Jesus. They believe that because I was working in a secular job that I could not possibly have been put there by God. They have chapter and verse to support their views and perhaps they are correct and I am wrong. But I know that I my soul would not allow me to stay silent when the opportunity to share was there, even if it was only a word of encouragement.

I don’t like defending Joel Osteen’s ministry because honestly I don’t get much from it. But I have been in the Lakewood Church on two occasions with friends who were getting something. While there, we were surrounded by other people who also felt that their needs were being met. Someday, if they are not discouraged by to many well meaning Brothers in Christ they will graduate from milk to pabulum. I can only pray that when they do they don’t then join the general finger pointing.

the thing is we are not saying one is a christian or not.
rather we are saying the teaching is off. not biblical.

JO teaches occulism. thats what wof is.

what motive the man has for this I dont have a clue.
when he will NOT say that Jesus is the only way to the Father,
and the only way to heaven, that is a huge thing.

thats a insult to those you have mentioned who's life is on the line for
believing in Jesus. and they'd tell you that.

[rlbenn]

the thing is we are not saying one is a christian or not.
rather we are saying the teaching is off. not biblical.

JO teaches occulism. thats what wof is.

what motive the man has for this I dont have a clue.
when he will NOT say that Jesus is the only way to the Father,
and the only way to heaven, that is a huge thing.

thats a insult to those you have mentioned who's life is on the line for
believing in Jesus. and they'd tell you that.

[rlbenn]

I'm sorry Sandy, but if you are calling him a cultist then you ARE saying he is not a Christian.

And don't feel sorry for me for not being in a "Full Gospel Church". I have been very blessed in the churches I have been able to attend. Most, but not all were "Out Reach" ministries who focused more on evangelism then on other parts of the Gospel. Perhaps that is way I feel more sympathy for anyone filling pews in the numbers that Joel is.

[Kathe]

I don't think anyone is saying that JO is not saved. That is not up to us. What we are saying is that they are not teaching the true Word of God and preachers are held to a higher standard than an average person. They have influence over hundreds and thousands of people. When a person can't tell the truth of how to get to heaven in an audience of millions something is very wrong. I used to watch him regularly. He never talks about sin or repenting of sin. He doesn't talk about turning away from sin. He just says invite Jesus into your heart and all your dreams will basically come true. I've read his book and he talks a lot about if you believe something enough it will happen. That is new age, not biblical. I know, I lived in the new age culture for almost 20 years. I'm not judging JO salvation. I'm judging his teaching. It's simply not biblical and we are called to speak up against it. Kathe

[SetApart]

Can someone please tell me why we, as Christians, spend so much time explaining why someone else can’t possibly be a Christian? I have seen this happen so many times. A small church in India falling apart over vegetarianism, some believing that for former Hindus to continue as vegetarians was a denial of their conversion to Christianity and others arguing that it was not. A prayer group in Saudi Arabia literally coming to blows over whether we should be praying to God or to Jesus or if it was the same thing.

I have prayed and studied with both Catholics and Protestants in countries where it was illegal to have a Bible. I have taken communion from a Catholic priest in Saudi Arabia where it would have been worth his life if he were discovered. You would think that under those conditions Christians would be willing to lay aside differences of doctrine. But even there some people seemed more concerned with being Right than with being Righteous.

The Church is the Body of Christ. Hands and Arms and Feet and Legs, people are called to different ministries. I am content as a foot, wandering the darker regions of the world as a Christian for thirty-two years. (I shutter to remember the years I wasted and the opportunities I squandered as a sinner.)

Yet I have been told by honest believing Christians that unless I was “called to minister in foreign lands as a Missionary” I shouldn’t be speaking to those people about Jesus. They believe that because I was working in a secular job that I could not possibly have been put there by God. They have chapter and verse to support their views and perhaps they are correct and I am wrong. But I know that I my soul would not allow me to stay silent when the opportunity to share was there, even if it was only a word of encouragement.

I don’t like defending Joel Osteen’s ministry because honestly I don’t get much from it. But I have been in the Lakewood Church on two occasions with friends who were getting something. While there, we were surrounded by other people who also felt that their needs were being met. Someday, if they are not discouraged by to many well meaning Brothers in Christ they will graduate from milk to pabulum. I can only pray that when they do they don’t then join the general finger pointing.
i have been reading this thread for days now and it has bothered me in ways that i wasn't quite able to understand...i have prayed about it and i guess i am ready to respond. i had a reply ready earlier, but my log-in expired as i was writing and i could not recover it..........gggggrrrrrrrr......soooooo....i came back later to try again...

i am not dismissing the validity that we need to be vigilant of false teachers. i am potentially dealing with that now in my present church with a new pastor coming on board...so i am completely in agreement with that concept.

after having read this thread, i couldn't help but go back 10 years in my own life knowing and remembering full well how completely broken, devalued, rejected, and dark my life was.....i had no sense of purpose, value, significance, or worth at all due to a number of life circumstances beyond my control.

from the moment i was told my athiest father that God was not real at the age of 7, i knew He was...but i had no way of backing it up because please...we had no biblical teaching in our household except that God was a joke.

i held on to that "knowing" and have never let go of it..and just that very thing has helped me triumph in ways i shouldn't have.

however...i always prayed to God and felt God in my life through my 20's..but never went to church...didn't diminish His presence in my life though...i just had no teaching to go on...

before i turned 30, my life was so very dark...my childood had caught me and i was dealing with total and complete wreckage of my heart---it was shattered and twisted in a way that finally convinced me that i had no worth, value, or significance (because that was what i learned growing up--which doesn't just go away because you turn 18 and move out)....

through the next few years, i struggled to keep myself from that permanent vault of darkness...and when someone feels as though they have no worth and no value, that vault of darkness is closer than you might imagine unless you can understand what i am talking about.

i found a church...and it was a grace-filled church.....and it was similiar in nature to what i have heard the few times i have listened to Joel Osteen's messages....

but....it was powerful for me....

for the first time i realized my worth and my significance in this world, and i ate all of the cotton candy gospel that was fed to me, i absorbed the sugar coated words of the preacher, and the milk that was provided to me was sufficient for me to find the worth and value that i never knew existed..and would not have if i had not had plenty of exposure to the joel osteen -like messages i received.

then when i would hear the christmas song, "Oh Holy Night" ..."the soul felt its worth"....i would cry because i understood EXACTLY what that meant through the "cotton candy" preaching i was so very desperate for.

you see...had i been immediately exposed to mature preachings, i don't think i could have handled it in the position i was in at the time, and i believe that i would have resented God's word so much because all i would have heard was that i was doomed and that i was a failure and that i was not deserving of unconditional love.....i needed the kind of gospel that some tend to be so critical of on this site at the time.

JO doesn't provide much for me..but i can guarantee that 10 years ago, his messages might have been just as life-saving for me and set me on a path of deeper understanding that i am currently on today.

i love john hagee now...but WOW...he would have freaked me out 10 years ago...he would have freaked me out TWO years ago..although i was much further along then....

next year..who knows...maybe john hagee will be considered cotton candy!!ha!!

all i am saying...please be careful about how we characterize preachers....they may be off in some of their preachings, but they may very well be a part of God's redemptive plan and they might just be that one single bridge between total darkness and light for people who would otherwise be lost forever.

[sandy111]

I'm sorry Sandy, but if you are calling him a cultist then you ARE saying he is not a Christian.

And don't feel sorry for me for not being in a "Full Gospel Church". I have been very blessed in the churches I have been able to attend. Most, but not all were "Out Reach" ministries who focused more on evangelism then on other parts of the Gospel. Perhaps that is way I feel more sympathy for anyone filling pews in the numbers that Joel is.


I said I cant just JO's motives. he could be not saved or he could be sincerly mistaken.

why should I feel sorry for you??? :confused

[sandy111]

i have been reading this thread for days now and it has bothered me in ways that i wasn't quite able to understand...i have prayed about it and i guess i am ready to respond. i had a reply ready earlier, but my log-in expired as i was writing and i could not recover it..........gggggrrrrrrrr......soooooo....i came back later to try again...

i am not dismissing the validity that we need to be vigilant of false teachers. i am potentially dealing with that now in my present church with a new pastor coming on board...so i am completely in agreement with that concept.

after having read this thread, i couldn't help but go back 10 years in my own life knowing and remembering full well how completely broken, devalued, rejected, and dark my life was.....i had no sense of purpose, value, significance, or worth at all due to a number of life circumstances beyond my control.

from the moment i was told my athiest father that God was not real at the age of 7, i knew He was...but i had no way of backing it up because please...we had no biblical teaching in our household except that God was a joke.

i held on to that "knowing" and have never let go of it..and just that very thing has helped me triumph in ways i shouldn't have.

however...i always prayed to God and felt God in my life through my 20's..but never went to church...didn't diminish His presence in my life though...i just had no teaching to go on...

before i turned 30, my life was so very dark...my childood had caught me and i was dealing with total and complete wreckage of my heart---it was shattered and twisted in a way that finally convinced me that i had no worth, value, or significance (because that was what i learned growing up--which doesn't just go away because you turn 18 and move out)....

through the next few years, i struggled to keep myself from that permanent vault of darkness...and when someone feels as though they have no worth and no value, that vault of darkness is closer than you might imagine unless you can understand what i am talking about.

i found a church...and it was a grace-filled church.....and it was similiar in nature to what i have heard the few times i have listened to Joel Osteen's messages....

but....it was powerful for me....

for the first time i realized my worth and my significance in this world, and i ate all of the cotton candy gospel that was fed to me, i absorbed the sugar coated words of the preacher, and the milk that was provided to me was sufficient for me to find the worth and value that i never knew existed..and would not have if i had not had plenty of exposure to the joel osteen -like messages i received.

then when i would hear the christmas song, "Oh Holy Night" ..."the soul felt its worth"....i would cry because i understood EXACTLY what that meant through the "cotton candy" preaching i was so very desperate for.

you see...had i been immediately exposed to mature preachings, i don't think i could have handled it in the position i was in at the time, and i believe that i would have resented God's word so much because all i would have heard was that i was doomed and that i was a failure and that i was not deserving of unconditional love.....i needed the kind of gospel that some tend to be so critical of on this site at the time.

JO doesn't provide much for me..but i can guarantee that 10 years ago, his messages might have been just as life-saving for me and set me on a path of deeper understanding that i am currently on today.

i love john hagee now...but WOW...he would have freaked me out 10 years ago...he would have freaked me out TWO years ago..although i was much further along then....

next year..who knows...maybe john hagee will be considered cotton candy!!ha!!

all i am saying...please be careful about how we characterize preachers....they may be off in some of their preachings, but they may very well be a part of God's redemptive plan and they might just be that one single bridge between total darkness and light for people who would otherwise be lost forever.

I know more about that than you will ever know that darkness.
and the despair.
more than I care too. :redface

I understand what you are saying, but we bring to light some very pertinant facts that can not be overlooked, how else will others learn?

and I beg you, I beg you, please do some studying on wof.
haggee is one of them. and pray you are not drawn where you dont belong!
I say this because I care.

the bible says some of saved of love others of fear.

I think too, many get caught in the I'm a sinner totaly worthless,
and stay there. they get stuck.

think of it. God sent his only son, his only son, to pay for our sin,
what love! and while we were still sinners.

[Chris4Christ]

Can someone please tell me why we, as Christians, spend so much time explaining why someone else can’t possibly be a Christian?
:sigh This is the strawman that I see time and time again in threads like these. This whole line of reasoning is unresponsive to everything going on in this thread. Nobody said this. This thread is NOT about Joel Osteen's Christianity.

Once again, this thread is about his PASTORSHIP and his TEACHINGS.

Yet I have been told by honest believing Christians that unless I was “called to minister in foreign lands as a Missionary” I shouldn’t be speaking to those people about Jesus. They believe that because I was working in a secular job that I could not possibly have been put there by God. They have chapter and verse to support their views and perhaps they are correct and I am wrong. But I know that I my soul would not allow me to stay silent when the opportunity to share was there, even if it was only a word of encouragement.
Again, a strawman. Nobody has said that Joel shouldn't speak to people about Jesus. We are saying that he should not be a PASTOR...(BIG difference)...if he is not willing to stand up for Christ and teach the entire Word of God.

I don’t like defending Joel Osteen’s ministry because honestly I don’t get much from it. But I have been in the Lakewood Church on two occasions with friends who were getting something. While there, we were surrounded by other people who also felt that their needs were being met. Someday, if they are not discouraged by to many well meaning Brothers in Christ they will graduate from milk to pabulum. I can only pray that when they do they don’t then join the general finger pointing.
Numbers indicate nothing.

2Ti 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2Ti 4:1-4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable. Do you think maybe the Lord wants us to read ALL Scripture or just part of it? Do you really think that the Lord wants the leaders of his church to teach ALL Scripture or just the bits that they pick and choose?

Preach the word...not select portions of the word.

People will not endure sound doctrine and will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears. That's not a good thing. That's a bad thing. Scripture also tells us that narrow is the path to salvation, so do NOT place any reliance on numbers.

And I'm sure there have been people that have gotten saved after listening to Joel preach...I'm not here saying he's some evil, rotten man...but that has to do with the fact that God's word does not come back void, not the fact that Joel is a proper pastor.

Isa 55:10-11 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

[amy_elisabeth]

Setapart,

You said:

"all i am saying...please be careful about how we characterize preachers....they may be off in some of their preachings, but they may very well be a part of God's redemptive plan..."

What do you mean by "they may be a off in some of their preachings?"

[SetApart]

Setapart,

You said:

"all i am saying...please be careful about how we characterize preachers....they may be off in some of their preachings, but they may very well be a part of God's redemptive plan..."

What do you mean by "they may be a off in some of their preachings?"

unintentionally off...
not advocating for support of preachers who deliberately twist scripture to meet worldy needs...

[SetApart]

I understand what you are saying, but we bring to light some very pertinant facts that can not be overlooked, how else will others learn?

this thread does bring to light some very pertinent facts...and i agree they should not be overlooked..

however, 10 years ago, i was in need of the facts related to God's grace, mercy, forgiveness, and love and not whether my preacher was communicating if psalm 12:8 accurately or not.

all i am saying is that this subject is very fragile territory, and we must be careful how we word things...me too....all i know is that i needed that cotton candy gospel to demonstrate to me my worth to God...did i even have the ability to "test" anything at the time?? not at all....

but...i guess that is where spiritual maturity kicks in....just as a child cannot understand the abstracts/big picture of the adult world because of their developmental stage, baby christians/wounded & lost people cannot either necessarily...

i am trying to keep an open mind that many of these "cotton-candy" preachers perhaps do not deserve the criticism they are getting..because without them, spiritual maturity would not be possible.......considering the starting points for some of us.

and...what is the criticism of hagee......
any good resources on WOF?

[Sower]

Can someone please tell me why we, as Christians, spend so much time explaining why someone else can’t possibly be a Christian? I have seen this happen so many times. A small church in India falling apart over vegetarianism, some believing that for former Hindus to continue as vegetarians was a denial of their conversion to Christianity and others arguing that it was not. A prayer group in Saudi Arabia literally co