Why was Satan in the Garden?

[Bering Sea]

Hi Believers,

Often times when things like the tsunami happen, I hear a groan from the world that says 'if God was a loving God, then why did this happen'. Some
of my friends just lost their mom to lung cancer, watching her progress was one of the most cruel things I have ever witnessed. They ask the same.
I'm a believer, but I wonder the same thing. Maybe someone here has a valid answer for a question that has haunted me concerning God's love. I know God put man in the garden and gave him free will. God put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden and said don't eat of it. It seems to me that that was enough. Man had the ability then to obey or disobey. So why was Satan put in the garden? Why couldn't he have been put on some planet far from ours? It seems to me that the free will of man was manipulated by Satan in the way of deception.
So this question plagues me. I don't understand how a loving God would put such an evil thing in the garden to tempt and deceive man.
I sincerely hope someone does have a valid answer because this question has blocked my relationship with God so many times. I've asked God to reveal to me the answer and also to even just take the question away, I want so much to to accept God as a loving God. I know Him sending Jesus was definately a loving act.

Thanks for any insight.

[boxer77]

I just herd a good message today about the exact thing you are asking, it was by DR. Tony Evans, he is on every day on Moody radio.

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/The_Alternative/archives.asp?bcd=2006-5-4

Here are the messages archived, you can listen to them on your computer they are pretty good!

[Bering Sea]

thanks for the link I'll give it a listen

[PlentyGroovy]

Interesting slant...if satan hadn't been there, would Eve ever thought to eat of the fruit?

Let's see, God is in ultimate control, so satan was there by His consent...God is all about letting the odds stack up and then pulling off an absolutely glorious miracle when it looks as though all is lost.

Then it was His plan from the beginning, satan's evil was turned to good - Jesus. satan was a pawn. Think about why we are here, to glorify God. God is all about impossible odds. satan was used to make the odds more impossible. I've seen it over and over personally, impossible evil turned to good in the most wonderful way.

I can see what you're saying, were Adam and Eve 'set up'? No, they still had free will to do the right thing.

[bopeep1909]

The following answer are from Billy Graham:


Q: Why did God create the human race? He must have known we were going to turn our backs on Him and get into all kinds of trouble, so why did He bother making us in the first place?


A: Dear P.J.,
God made us for one reason: so He could have fellowship with us. It wasn't that He was lonely or needed us—but He made us in His image so He could shower His love upon us, and we could love Him in return. The Bible says, "God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him" (1 John 4:16).

You are right, however: God knew we were going to abuse our freedom and turn our backs on Him—and when we did, suffering and death descended on us. Adam and Eve lived in the most perfect environment imaginable, and yet they listened to Satan's lies and rebelled against their Creator. We have been paying the price for their sin ever since.

But this didn't stop God's plan for the human race! He could have simply destroyed us—but because He loves us, He provided a way for us to come back to Himself. Even before the human race sinned, God knew what He would do: He would send His only Son into the world to become the sacrifice for our sins. The Bible says, "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world ... to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 1:4-5).

Have you come back to God by giving yourself to Jesus Christ? Don't spend your life wandering away from Him, but discover the joy of having fellowship with Him every day. By a simple prayer of faith ask Christ to come into your life, take away your sins and make you His child forever.

Q: Why does God allow suffering in the world?

A: There are no easy answers to the question of the purpose of suffering and evil. The tendency is to blame God for these conditions, but He did not create them. They came as a result of man's disobedience to God, beginning back in the Garden of Eden; see Genesis 3:16-19. Often suffering and adversity are brought about by disregard of God's will or by the direct efforts of Satan or by natural disasters in a physical world which is also affected by man's sin and the resulting judgment. God, however, has offered the most effective solution possible by giving His Son to die for all. Jesus Christ paid the ultimate price when He suffered and died on the cross, having taken upon Himself the sin of the world and all of its horrible consequences. When Jesus returns in power and glory, there will be a new world completely free from sin with its sorrow and suffering (Revelation, chapters 21 and 22).

We can be sure that God in His divine purpose desires to bring about in us the greatest good and to allow suffering to be a means of discipline through which love, patience, grace, and faith may be cultivated in our lives. God never asks us to understand; we need only trust Him in the same way that we expect our earthly children to trust our love. Peace comes when we realize we are able to see only a few threads in the great tapestry of life and of God's plan. Then we can affirm with great joy and assurance that "in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:28).

The way we react to suffering will determine whether life's most tragic experiences bring bitterness and despair or become sources of blessing. The greatest joy will come when, in the midst of adversity, we look up into His face and say, "I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation" (Habakkuk 3:18). It is then that His promise will be most meaningful, "When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze" (Isaiah 43:2).

[Bering Sea]

thanks for your replies. I was not able to download the Dr. Tony Evans audio because dial up is all I have at my house in the hills. I will try to access it from a wireless network, hopefully soon.
Billy Graham has a great way of relating hard questions and answers.

[TrojansFan]

Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum in his book "The Footsteps of the Messiah" talks about the 6 abodes of Satan. The first abode was the throne of God as satan was the "covering angel" who covered the throne of God. satan was the annointed angel was the highest in creation. God gave satan the authority to rule over the Earth. It was satan's responsibility to watch over God's creation. But satan had other plans, satan wanted to be God as a result of his sinful pride.

Fruchtenbaum says that in the beginning of the Earth the "seas" were actually places of precious stones. There were no seas until satan's fall. As a result of the fall the seas were created and I guess the precious stones or whatever dispappeared or something. Fruchtenbaum goes onto explain that in the EO there will be now seas as the seas will be returned to their previous state.

I don't have my book here in front of me but I will get it and add to this later if I can. If someone knows something I've left out please add to it. :):

[coffeehubby]

The cruel things that happen in this life either become soul/character building events...drawing us closer to God our Father...or we become more like our father satan. So of course he was allowed access to Adam and Eve. Just like them we have that choice too every day, in many ways.

[bopeep1909]

According to The MACARTHUR Study Bible:

GENESIS 3:1 the serpent. The word means "snake". The apostle John identified this creature as Satan...see reference:

REVELATION 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out,that serpent of old,called the Devil and Satan,who deceives the whole world.

According to the apostle John in REVELATIONS the serpent is in reference to Satan.

[Bering Sea]

Hi,

Glad for all the discussion this has prompted. I know where Zarove is coming from in that the scripture does not directly say satan, however I do think the Serpent of old was indeed satan. That is a keen eye though to realize that the serpent in the garden was not called satan.
TrojansFan, I hope you do post most more, that book sounds very interesting. I had always wondered why there would be no sea on the new earth. I personally love the sea and spent 4 years of my life as a commercial fisherman in Alaska. Though I would imagine anything not in its fallen state is quite better than anything currently.
Hope to hear more views on why satan was in the garden.

[TrojansFan]

Hi,

Glad for all the discussion this has prompted. I know where Zarove is coming from in that the scripture does not directly say satan, however I do think the Serpent of old was indeed satan. That is a keen eye though to realize that the serpent in the garden was not called satan.
TrojansFan, I hope you do post most more, that book sounds very interesting. I had always wondered why there would be no sea on the new earth. I personally love the sea and spent 4 years of my life as a commercial fisherman in Alaska. Though I would imagine anything not in its fallen state is quite better than anything currently.
Hope to hear more views on why satan was in the garden.

:thumb

I'd strongly recommend that book from Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, he has lots of interesting ideas and seems to be a great teacher. His website is at http://www.ariel.org and you can find the book under the "Catalog" section, it is only $35 for over 800+ pages of great info. :thumb

[Becky]

Genesis 3:14-16
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
This is talking about Jesus. The serpent is Satan.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

[donf]

It does seem that the Apostle Paul (someone whom I give a great deal of credibilty to) would equate the serpent in the Garden with Satan.

Ro 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.


The reference to Satan here is also the same reference in the Genesis 3 when the "serpent" is being cursed. Or maybe it could be a coincidence??


Blessings,

don

[ed braski]

Hi Believers,

Often times when things like the tsunami happen, I hear a groan from the world that says 'if God was a loving God, then why did this happen'. Some
of my friends just lost their mom to lung cancer, watching her progress was one of the most cruel things I have ever witnessed. They ask the same.
I'm a believer, but I wonder the same thing. Maybe someone here has a valid answer for a question that has haunted me concerning God's love. I know God put man in the garden and gave him free will. God put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden and said don't eat of it. It seems to me that that was enough. Man had the ability then to obey or disobey. So why was Satan put in the garden? Why couldn't he have been put on some planet far from ours? It seems to me that the free will of man was manipulated by Satan in the way of deception.
So this question plagues me. I don't understand how a loving God would put such an evil thing in the garden to tempt and deceive man.
I sincerely hope someone does have a valid answer because this question has blocked my relationship with God so many times. I've asked God to reveal to me the answer and also to even just take the question away, I want so much to to accept God as a loving God. I know Him sending Jesus was definately a loving act.

Thanks for any insight.

SIN - Satan wasn't put in the garden he showed up. God knew man would sin and provided a way out. God wants people who by free choice of will, will choose life and Him. Some don't. That's a mutual fellowship.


Sin DEMANDS death. Man sinned but knew not knowledge of good and evil therefore God in His wisdom and Gpds justice gave us a way out, a pardon through Jesus Christ.

[TrojansFan]

http://www.ldolphin.org/satan.html


He is described as "the serpent" (Gen. 3:1). Since Revelation 12:9 speaks of "that ancient serpent called the devil or Satan, who leads the whole world astray" we are no doubt right in identifying him as Satan, the ancient adversary of God.

[Bering Sea]

I hope this thread will come back to my questions I asked at first. I originally posted this in We That Struggle, as this is an issue I have struggled and struggled with. Then it was moved and now again, but I hope despite all its new homes we can get the topic back to the original post.

[Becky]

I hope this thread will come back to my questions I asked at first. I originally posted this in We That Struggle, as this is an issue I have struggled and struggled with. Then it was moved and now again, but I hope despite all its new homes we can get the topic back to the original post.You know, you are right. I'm going to prune this thread and let you have your thread back. :thumb

Moved back to Christian Chat.

[TrojansFan]

Bering Sea,
Here are a few other articles that might help with this problem you've been struggling with. :):

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/selah/tough-questions-answered/why-do-bad-things-happen-to-good-people-part-1

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/selah/tough-questions-answered/why-do-bad-things-happen-to-good-people-part-2

I hope you find these helpful. :):

[boxer77]

SIN - Satan wasn't put in the garden he showed up. God knew man would sin and provided a way out. God wants people who by free choice of will, will choose life and Him. Some don't. That's a mutual fellowship.


Sin DEMANDS death. Man sinned but knew not knowledge of good and evil therefore God in His wisdom and Gpds justice gave us a way out, a pardon through Jesus Christ.
So when man ate of the treee of the knowladge of good and evil, his eyes were open and he felt guilt, so in a sense he did know what good and evil were, cause he hadnt sinned "done evil" but only good, now he knows both cause of doing evil.... He becomes aware I guess what Im trying to say. Interesting.

[ed braski]

So when man ate of the treee of the knowladge of good and evil, his eyes were open and he felt guilt, so in a sense he did know what good and evil were, cause he hadnt sinned "done evil" but only good, now he knows both cause of doing evil.... He becomes aware I guess what Im trying to say. Interesting.

Adam knew he was naked and God asked him "who told you so"? God also knew man would sin and before man was created a plan was put in place that Jesus would leave heaven and come to earth in the form of man and die for sin. Jesus was the second Adam the perfect man without sin. No one could and can ever claim that.

Thus if we accept the death of Christ, as our death, it should be us not HIM, then God will pardon us for our confession of our fallen sinful, wicked nature and impute to us newness of life eternal.

[TrojansFan]

SIN - Satan wasn't put in the garden he showed up. God knew man would sin and provided a way out. God wants people who by free choice of will, will choose life and Him. Some don't. That's a mutual fellowship.


Sin DEMANDS death. Man sinned but knew not knowledge of good and evil therefore God in His wisdom and Gpds justice gave us a way out, a pardon through Jesus Christ.

I'd have to say that satan showed up because he was already given authority over the creation as the annointed cherub, thus he was already around. But I agree that God knew that men would sin and fall, yet he went ahead and made man so that we could become his children. :thumb

[Bering Sea]

thanks Becky for letting this thread go on, and thanks to everyone for posting their views

[TrojansFan]

thanks Becky for letting this thread go on, and thanks to everyone for posting their views

God bless. :hug

[Laura-bell]

I can't even begin to understand why God allows the things He allows...I know that ultimately He has a wonderful plan and we can't begin to understand even if we could see the whole picture at this moment. We are in corruptable bodies and have corruptable finite minds at this point in His plan.

But I can say this. I just lost a co-worker that we all loved dearly. He was pretty young and had 1 baby and 1 on the way. His wife was really young. His poor family was just devastated. I drove home alone after the funeral and when I sat at the table for dinner by myself, I was overcome with grief and compassion that I couldn't begin to fathom I would feel for someone that I never even talked to outside of work. Yes, he was a dear man, and I loved him; but I didn't know him that well that I should have responded like that. I mean this isn't the first funeral I had been to. Ya know? I lost a dear friend about 10 years ago and didn't weep like that.
That's it, I wept! As Jesus wept, so did I. I now understand that His heart hurts so desperately over what has happened to His beloved creation. That He made in His beautiful image. His heart hurts terribly for us, because we hurt, because we suffer. Oh God, oh how You love us!
Because death touches us, He weeps and groans within Himself. Satan hates everything about God including life. satan brought death to us in the garden through sin, and we've suffered ever since, that's what he delights in. Our suffering and God will put an end to that soon enough!!!!

[ub4war]

bearing sea-- i have to remind my self ofthis alot--------Romans 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Ezekiel 14:3
Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be inquired of at all by them?

now i am not talking about you--in fact i will use myself as an example
i smoke ciggs--should i inquire of him?
i can be mean some times--should i inquire of him
beautiful women,i won't go there but --should i enque of him?
My point is God is Almighty and I should always humble myself be for him

consider these verses---Job 38
1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

so what i guess i am tring to say is maybe sometimes i should just trust that God knows what he is doing and i am nothing compared to him so i should just trust him

quote---So this question plagues me. I don't understand how a loving God would put such an evil thing in the garden to tempt and deceive man

consider this verse--Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight."

i hope this helps---for me when i realized i had no right to question God
and that i had to submit to his will and to him

[frisian1970]

You know, you are right. I'm going to prune this thread and let you have your thread back. :thumb

Moved back to Christian Chat.:):