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Daisy Cutter
May 6th, 2006, 02:29 PM
Is it a sin to break the law, when the law does not instruct us to break God's law, and in breaking it we do not break God's law? What I mean is - is it a sin in and of itself to break the law?

I'm hoping for something deeper than "render unto Caesar."

Jael
May 6th, 2006, 02:58 PM
Is it a sin to break the law, when the law does not instruct us to break God's law, and in breaking it we do not break God's law? What I mean is - is it a sin in and of itself to break the law?

I'm hoping for something deeper than "render unto Caesar."

In most cases, yes...as long as there is no conflict between God's law and man's law, we are commanded to be subject to those in authority:

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Rom 13:5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

However, whenever man's law is in opposition to God's law, then we follow the example of the apostles...when they were commanded by the high priest to stop teaching about Jesus, they responded:

Act 5:29 ...We ought to obey God rather than men.

There are also times of serious necessity when I don't believe it is a sin to disobey the law (this is just my opinion). For example, the son of one of my neighbors was shot outside of his school...and since it was close to the nearest hospital, she bundled him in the car and drove at top speed, 2 miles to the ER (where they said she probably saved his life). Technically, she broke the speed limit getting him to the hospital, but did she sin? I don't think so...in talking to the Pharisees, Jesus seemed to indicate that it may not be a sin to break the law during times of exigent need:

Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

So, in my opinion, the answer to your question "is it a sin in and of itself to break the law?" is - generally yes, but there are exceptions.

Mailman Dan
May 6th, 2006, 06:48 PM
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Granted..its speaking of Gods law....


Dan~~~>wouldn't pick mans law over Gods

Quiet Watcher
May 7th, 2006, 01:51 AM
According to criminal law theory, crimes fall into two categories:

Malum in se crimes involve a moral wrong. Rape, robbery and murder are malum in se.

Malum prohibitum crimes are crimes only because they are defined as crimes under a criminal code. Speeding, parking in a no parking zone and loitering are malum prohibitum.

One position you could take is that committing any crime is a sin, since the Bible states that God puts leaders (and therefore laws) into place. Another position you could take is that only committing malum in se crimes is a sin, since there's no moral component to that which is malum prohibitum. You can also take the position that any of man's laws can be broken if necessary to keep God's laws.

See, this is what lawyers do. Lots of words, few answers. :heh

Quiet Watcher

Doublezero
May 7th, 2006, 10:08 AM
Quiet Water,

Excellent point. I was thinking of some arrestable offenses like "driving w/o a Drivers License" and "driving with a suspended license". I dont think those are sins, but they are illegal. On the other hand, people can openly have abortions, and it's 100% legal (but obviously a sin).

trixie
May 7th, 2006, 10:45 AM
What is the state of the heart of the person breaking the law? If your license has been suspended (hypothetically speaking) are you driving because you WANT to and don't want to be subject to the penalty you rightfully incurred (sin of pride), or is it a situation like the earlier example of the woman taking an injured child to the hospital?

God always deals with the state of the heart.

Paul said "everything is permissible, but not everything is profitable" which would apply to the abortion question...yes, it's permissible...but definitely not right.

Hootmon
May 7th, 2006, 10:49 AM
Paul said "everything is permissible, but not everything is profitable" which would apply to the abortion question...yes, it's permissible...but definitely not right.I dont see how you can squeeze abortion into 'Love thy neighbor as thyself'.

Murder isnt all that 'loving'...

trixie
May 7th, 2006, 11:35 AM
I dont see how you can squeeze abortion into 'Love thy neighbor as thyself'.

:confused
I wasn't squeezing it in there...I was making the point that Paul was saying that even though something was allowable under the law didn't make it OK or glorifying to God for a Christian to engage in it.

edited to add: I was referring to "permissible" as meaning "under the law of the land", not permissible by God.

Hootmon
May 7th, 2006, 12:13 PM
edited to add: I was referring to "permissible" as meaning "under the law of the land", not permissible by God. Im fairly certain that wouldnt be 'permissible' in the context of what Paul wrote.

In other words, 'legal' abortion is still sin as it goes against God's law.

Daisy Cutter
May 7th, 2006, 03:49 PM
Im fairly certain that wouldnt be 'permissible' in the context of what Paul wrote.

In other words, 'legal' abortion is still sin as it goes against God's law.
I wasn't really questioning if the government defined morals - it certainly doesn't.

But rather, if something like civil disobedience to bad laws was sinful. In my state, my state had bad licensing requirements for pedicurists and manicurists (insanely unreasonable, a bachelors degree, X hours of training, etc).

A woman here publicly performed a manicure without a license, as a protest of the requirements for doing it. She did it in public, on her property, with the press and police present. She was immediately arrested and fined, which she expected, and went peacefully. She brought the video footage, pictures and a copy of what is required to get a license before the state house of representatives, and they passed a law that she had proposed, lowering the minimum requirements to something much more sane - 100 hours of training, no degree required, etc.

Was her breaking of the law, in order to change it, a sin?

Bringing light to the situation and milking it really swung the house vote in her favor that day.