Thoughts on dinosaurs and legendary animals

[ColcordMama]

I was watching a dragon program on The History Channel this morning, and suddenly wondered about something. Science tells us that the earth is millions of years old, and the Bible tells us only a few thousand. So how about this: legends of dragons that persist in practically every culture on earth are either made up, nothing but legends and scary stories, or they date back to something that actually did live long ago, and the tales have been passed down through the generations. Have you ever wondered about the similarity between a pterosaur and a dragon? Both scary looking, both able to fly with huge leathery wings, both have a long tail, the pterosaur having a long beak, the dragon breathing fire. Now if pterosaurs lived millions of years ago, humans would not have stories about them passed down through subsequent generations. If pterosaurs lived just a few thousand years ago, back shortly after God created the earth, then it is much more possible that "dragon tales" could originate from human interactions with them.

Check out pterosaurs here and tell me what you think:

http://www.paleodirect.com/ptero1.htm

Something else to think about. Could the beast described in the Bible (Job 40:15-24) be a dinosaur? Could Job 41:1-34 be describing a dragon-like beast? If not, if this is simply a simile for satan, why is it so specific?

[prairiedog]

I think it might be possible that humans & dinos co-existed in the early yrs. Anything is possible when God is involved.:thumb

If not, then perhaps dragon legends began when ancient man came upon the skeletons of dinos & they let their imaginations run wild.:noidea

[sundero]

I've had the same thought Mama...
susie

[abkn]

They did live with the people. Then they were destroyed in the Flood (Noah's).

[PanTerra]

If not, then perhaps dragon legends began when ancient man came upon the skeletons of dinos & they let their imaginations run wild.:noidea:thumb

[Moony2ns]

I moved this from AG and pruned the posts that derailed from the original question, just in case some of you were wondering what happened to your posts. :):

[buzzardhut]

Judgment Day is Coming! http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c5/buzzardhut/Dino.gif

[PanTerra]

Judgment Day is Coming! http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c5/buzzardhut/Dino.gif And it's Barney?

[ub4war]

ya they were took out in the flood---just wondering thought where does it say the earth is a few thousand years old?
I always wondered why peeps thought that--if you look at the chapter that tells who begot who and how long they lived you can see it could be much longer than 5000 years--i mean some of those people lived to be 900 years old and they begot children who lived for hundreds of years who in turn produced long lived children:clap

[buzzardhut]

And it's Barney?
Yeah I'm sure Barney can take you :lol

[PanTerra]

Yeah I'm sure Barney can take you :lol

Na, I have seen Barney taken down pretty easily. He's a pushover.

[Ajani]

I firmly believe that dinos and people lived together (well, not together... you know what I mean). It wouldn't surprise me one bit to find that creatures like the Loch Ness "monster" did exist at one time and that it was little more than a large dino.

[PanTerra]

Unicorns too.

[Ajani]

Any so called mythical animal. I believe that they all have roots in something real, something that people have seen. Now with regards to dragons, the fire breathing, princess kidnapping part may be far fetched....

[PanTerra]

Absolutely, like the oar fish may have been the inspiration for the Chinese dragon.

[prairiedog]

Another thought about legendary beasts...

I've often wondered if the fallen angels dabbled in cloning as well.

For example: Minotaur
Centaur
Satyr

And where did mankind get the idea for cloning anyway?:noidea

[PanTerra]

Well, none of those are examples of cloning. Those are examples of a Chimeras.

[imreadytogo]

I believe that before Noah's flood, the nephilum were on the earth. Half angel half humans. The nephilum were some bad dudes(tough guys). I think they were big enough, strong enough, and fast enough to handle any of the dinosaurs. Like other posters said, all dinosaurs got destroyed in the flood.

God Bless

[PanTerra]

They had already gone extinct. They weren't around for anybody to handle.

[babylonrising]

What if they aren't dinosaurs at all? What if we put the bones together wrong and they are really big crickets or overgrown cave cats?
The earth could be 6,000 years old. It could be 11,000 years old. Personally, as long as my Chili Cheese Frito's aren't stale, I don't care.

[PanTerra]

Too many have been found pretty much intact as opposed to finding scattered bones, to know they weren't just large versions of familiar animals. That really is an non-issue. It's a good thing that the age of the earth is not an issue for you.

[DCShell]

PanTerra, I have one major problem with accepting your OEC or TE arguements and that's YOU. Your attitude of "you stupid peons are beneth my vastly superiour knowledge" kills any arguement that you may have. This attitude of moral superiorty is directly opposed to what you're expected to show through Christ. This, to me, proves the point that OEC and TE are more about humans boasting about their own intelligence and understanding than actually wanting to know what the Bible actually says.

For example, in this thread we have some people who hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible discussing the possibility that legends have a basis in fact and your reaction is derision and mockery. Really Christ-like behavior there. :rolleyes I may get warned and even banned for saying this, but I'm sick to death of seeing you and others on this board mocking those of us who hold to a literal belief in the Scriptures. Who are you to mock us? If anyone, you should be the one being asked to prove yourself due to the lack of biblical support for your view. Your type is always telling us that this isn't a salvation issue but then they're quick to mock and laugh at ANY Christian who dares to hold to a literal understanding of the Bible. Seems like to me this isn't about what is actually said or not, but more about stroking your own massive ego. In short, BACK OFF!:mad

[sealed]

dinosaurs and humans? ....there was no death before there was sin...so they had to have been living at the same time....that is if they were real

Also, animalsw and people got along until after the flood when God placed the fear of man into them.

[sealed]

I was watching a dragon program on The History Channel this morning, and suddenly wondered about something. Science tells us that the earth is millions of years old, and the Bible tells us only a few thousand. So how about this: legends of dragons that persist in practically every culture on earth are either made up, nothing but legends and scary stories, or they date back to something that actually did live long ago, and the tales have been passed down through the generations. Have you ever wondered about the similarity between a pterosaur and a dragon? Both scary looking, both able to fly with huge leathery wings, both have a long tail, the pterosaur having a long beak, the dragon breathing fire. Now if pterosaurs lived millions of years ago, humans would not have stories about them passed down through subsequent generations. If pterosaurs lived just a few thousand years ago, back shortly after God created the earth, then it is much more possible that "dragon tales" could originate from human interactions with them.

Check out pterosaurs here and tell me what you think:

http://www.paleodirect.com/ptero1.htm

Something else to think about. Could the beast described in the Bible (Job 40:15-24) be a dinosaur? Could Job 41:1-34 be describing a dragon-like beast? If not, if this is simply a simile for satan, why is it so specific?


Very interesting! Good points you brought up for thought!

[PanTerra]

PanTerra, I have one major problem with accepting your OEC or TE arguements and that's YOU. Your attitude of "you stupid peons are beneth my vastly superiour knowledge" kills any arguement that you may have. This attitude of moral superiorty is directly opposed to what you're expected to show through Christ. This, to me, proves the point that OEC and TE are more about humans boasting about their own intelligence and understanding than actually wanting to know what the Bible actually says.

For example, in this thread we have some people who hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible discussing the possibility that legends have a basis in fact and your reaction is derision and mockery. Really Christ-like behavior there. :rolleyes I may get warned and even banned for saying this, but I'm sick to death of seeing you and others on this board mocking those of us who hold to a literal belief in the Scriptures. Who are you to mock us? If anyone, you should be the one being asked to prove yourself due to the lack of biblical support for your view. Your type is always telling us that this isn't a salvation issue but then they're quick to mock and laugh at ANY Christian who dares to hold to a literal understanding of the Bible. Seems like to me this isn't about what is actually said or not, but more about stroking your own massive ego. In short, BACK OFF!:mad


God love you David, sorry you feel that way. But I don't really see it that way. I think you have bigger issues that brought this out. We are just having a conversation here in “Christian Chat,” lets keep it that way. IF you want to join in, keep it civil and not casting aspersions. No one is mocking anyone here. So if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all. I believe Prairiedog has the best hold on the possibilities that are under discussion.

[sealed]

www.christiananswers.net has articles on dinosaurs and being possible mentioned in the book of Job...it makes sense to me.

[DCShell]

God love you David, sorry you feel that way. But I don't really see it that way. I think you have bigger issues that brought this out. We are just having a conversation here in “Christian Chat,” lets keep it that way. IF you want to join in, keep it civil and not casting aspersions. No one is mocking anyone here. So if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all. I believe Prairiedog has the best hold on the possibilities that are under discussion.

So you're saying that your remark about unicorns wasn't a none-so-subtle jab at YECs who believe that Man was created and lived at the same time as the dinos? If so, then I apologize but I'm tired of those of us who hold to a literal reading of the Bible being mocked by those of who are supposed to be on our side. That, more than anything else, is what triggered my anger.

As for Prairiedog's idea, I tend to agree that the Nephilim had something to do with creating the beings we think of as myths now.

[PanTerra]

I was referring to Prairiedog's point that dragons were most likely the product of imagination, inspired by the discovery of fossilized dinsaurs. I have wondered if the Nephilim were the inspiration for some of the Greek Gods. What do you think?

[PanTerra]

So you're saying that your remark about unicorns wasn't a none-so-subtle jab at YECs who believe that Man was created and lived at the same time as the dinos?

Actually, YECism was irrelevent.That post was following a comment about the Loch Ness Monster.
Here is a discussion on "unicorns" in the Bible.
http://www.tegart.com/brian/bible/kjvonly/rick/unicorns.html

[DCShell]

I was referring to Prairiedog's point that dragons were most likely the product of imagination, inspired by the discovery of fossilized dinsaurs. I have wondered if the Nephilim were the inspiration for some of the Greek Gods. What do you think?

I think you're dead on target and hard locked, to misuse a phrase. In my mind, there's no doubt that the Nephilim were the inspiration for some, if not all, of the classical Greek Myths. The similarities are just too close, especially with Hercules.

[DCShell]

Actually, YECism was irrelevent.That post was following a comment about the Loch Ness Monster.
Here is a discussion on "unicorns" in the Bible.
http://www.tegart.com/brian/bible/kjvonly/rick/unicorns.html

YECism isn't entirely irrelevent, but I can see where the logic leap could be somewhat hard to understand. The remark about Unicorns is usually used by those who hold to an intrepretation other than YEC as proof that the Bible is incorrect and shouldn't be used as a guide to Earth's history. Their logic, though flawed, goes something like this. "If you really believe dinos and men were around at the same time, then do you really believe there were unicorns too?" Though these two topics have nothing to do with each other, the lack of knowledge of what a biblical "unicorn" actually is usually leads young YECists to stumble and doubt the scriptures, hence my strong reaction.

[Believeth]

I've heard that unicorn is just another name for a horse, but not totally sure. I did watch a very interesting movie the other night, regarding humans and dinosaurs living together. Check it out here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2528412371399195162&q=metal+storm&pl=true

It's quite long, but very well worth the watch.

[ConservPride]

Any so called mythical animal. I believe that they all have roots in something real, something that people have seen. Now with regards to dragons, the fire breathing, princess kidnapping part may be far fetched....

Description of the leviathan:

[/URL] (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Job/41/19.html)
(http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Job&chapter=41&verse=19&version=kjv) (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/versions.pl?book=Job&chapter=41&verse=19&version=kjv)
Job 41:19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Job&chapter=41&verse=19&version=kjv)Out of his mouth go burning lamps, [and] sparks of fire leap out. (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Job/41/20.html)
Job 41:20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Job&chapter=41&verse=20&version=kjv)Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as [out] of a seething pot or caldron. (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Job/41/21.html)
[URL="http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Job&chapter=41&verse=21&version=kjv"]Job 41:21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Job&chapter=41&verse=21&version=kjv)His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
I haven't found any scripture to support kidnapping princesses as yet. :heh

[prairiedog]

dinosaurs and humans? ....there was no death before there was sin...so they had to have been living at the same time....
Excellent point. I didn't think that one all the way through.

[prairiedog]

I have wondered if the Nephilim were the inspiration for some of the Greek Gods. What do you think?
I absolutely believe that.

Think about this: Perseus, Hercules, Romulus & Remus (founders of Rome) all had "gods" for fathers & human mothers.

And their names are still familiar today...as in Men of Renown.

[prairiedog]

As for Prairiedog's idea, I tend to agree that the Nephilim had something to do with creating the beings we think of as myths now.
I still cannot help but wonder if there was some kind of genetic manipulation going on in the antedeluvian days. Creatures which were half human/half horse, bull, goat, etc.? I would think that they would want to mess up all God's creation, not limited to just humans.

[prairiedog]

I have wondered if the Nephilim were the inspiration for some of the Greek Gods. What do you think?
Something else I just remembered:

Angels can assume many different forms.

Zeus assumed the form of a bull so that he could carry Europa ( a human woman) away & rape her.

He also assumed the form of a beam of sunlight so he could gain access to the mother of Perseus who had been locked away by her father. That's how she became Perseus' mother.

[PanTerra]

I still cannot help but wonder if there was some kind of genetic manipulation going on in the antedeluvian days. Creatures which were half human/half horse, bull, goat, etc.? I would think that they would want to mess up all God's creation, not limited to just humans.

Yet none of these are found in the fossil record.

[prairiedog]

Yet none of these are found in the fossil record.
:doh:doh:dohBusted!:heh

[PanTerra]

;): don't feel bad.

http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/1.jpeg
http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/3.jpeg
http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/10.jpeg
http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/11.jpeg
http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/12.jpeg
http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/13.jpeg
http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/14.jpeg

[prairiedog]

I like the Bird Dog.

[Raggsokk81]

The word dinosaur was not invented before 1842, the KJV bible was translated about 1600 (?) So of course you can't find the word in there. But yes you find dragons many times.
You can even read about a fire breathing dragon in the sea I think it was.
Also when people talk about dinosaour people think about this huge creatures, but the avrage size is about a sheep. So there was no problem for Noah having room for them in the ark.
If you like to read more about this you can find much great information on answersingenesis.org

Btw, if the Nephilim was angels as some belive I find it strange that you can't read more about them in the bible.

[Srogue]

www.icr.org and www.answersingenesis.com

Two really good sites for Christians who have the need for real schollarly Science as to the validity to creation and literal young earth belief. There are many problems with believing evolution, including that death didn't enter in until the first sin of Adam. I have a friend who is a Christian, who believs totally in evolution, it is sad, and he buries his head in the sand when you try to convince him otherwise, so sad... trying to serve two masters: The fairy tale of evolution and the truth of the Bible.

I know there are a number of Christians I respect greatly, who I disagree with on this issue. I know Todd from RR, Chuck Missler, and, I believe, Dave Hunt, who believe in an old earth. One of the arguments they like to promote is that the Universe appears old, with starlight from billions of light years away appearing here on Earth. This is a poor argument, as there are both scientific and theological explanations that would lend to a Young age of the earth. At least one of these creation research groups theorized scientifically how starlight could be seen on earth from that far away, while having a young age of the earth. This is fine, for those that hold tighter to Science than the Bible, but for me, I choose to believe that God defused light through the system and put the universe into play in a "working" state, and not into existance in an infantile state. Of course, the usual response to this is "that would make God out to be a deceiver." This truly makes me laugh. How does creating the Universe in a "working and developed" condition make God out to be a deceiver? I am pretty certain God created Adam as a Man, able to walk, talk, feed himself etc. I don't think God created adam as a zygote floating in a Pond somewhere, waiting for him to develop to the stage He could talk to him. And yes, I know, that isn't in accord with how things work in the Scienctific community, that would in deed be a *gasp* miracle. :thumb

Here also, is a recent article on "Theistic" evolution.

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=2701

[sealed]

Yet none of these are found in the fossil record.


not yet.....but maybe with careful cloning technique :wacko

[sealed]

....love the pictures!!!!!:laugh

[PanTerra]

not yet.....but maybe with careful cloning technique :wacko

Or sloppy cloning techniques. :laugh

[PanTerra]

www.icr.org and www.answersingenesis.com

Two really good sites for Christians who have the need for real schollarly Science as to the validity to creation and literal young earth belief.
http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=2701:tape You really want this to go to apologetics, don't you. :lol

[PanTerra]

http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/9.jpeg
http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/22.jpeg
http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/4.jpeg
http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/6.jpeg
http://panterragroup.home.mindspring.com/chimera/8.jpeg

[alrdyreg]

ok THIS has been brought up before... but where does the Bible say that the world is only thousands of years old?

[Hootmon]

...where does the Bible say that the world is only thousands of years old? It doesnt.

Adam was created about 6000 years ago. Before that, things were reckoned in 'days'...

:peep

[DCShell]

Hence, the earth is 6000 years old. I can't let this one pass without showing the flag Hootmon, you know that....:D:

[DCShell]

In all seriousness, OECs and YECs both agree that Adam was created only about 6K years ago, it's the time before his creation that causes the division, hence the "Old Earth" and "Young Earth" in our respective camps.

[Hootmon]

Hence, the earth is 6000 years old. I can't let this one pass without showing the flag Hootmon, you know that....:D::fencing


In all seriousness, OECs and YECs both agree that Adam was created only about 6K years ago, it's the time before his creation that causes the division, hence the "Old Earth" and "Young Earth" in our respective camps.:nod

[PanTerra]

In all seriousness, OECs and YECs both agree that Adam was created only about 6K years ago, it's the time before his creation that causes the division, hence the "Old Earth" and "Young Earth" in our respective camps.

There is a little more disparity in when Adam was created between OEC and YEC. Hugh Ross pushes Adam back some 60,000 years. YECs range from the most ardent Ussherites at 4004 BC, the setterfields to 8,000 years ago, to IIRC AIg at 10,000 years ago.

[alrdyreg]

i ask because i heard that Jericho was around 20,000 years ago...

[PanTerra]

Here is some archeological info just from a quick google
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeology/sites/middle_east/jericho.html

[sealed]

Or sloppy cloning techniques. :laugh

:laugh :laugh

[DCShell]

There is a little more disparity in when Adam was created between OEC and YEC. Hugh Ross pushes Adam back some 60,000 years. YECs range from the most ardent Ussherites at 4004 BC, the setterfields to 8,000 years ago, to IIRC AIg at 10,000 years ago.

I guess I would be one of the "Ardent Ussherites" then, since I use the 4004 BC date. I could be wrong, but it seems to make the most sense to me from a type/shadow point of view.

[Raggsokk81]

ok THIS has been brought up before... but where does the Bible say that the world is only thousands of years old?

It dosen't. Its with math adding the the age of people together.

[My Abba's Child]

I was watching a dragon program on The History Channel this morning, and suddenly wondered about something. Science tells us that the earth is millions of years old, and the Bible tells us only a few thousand. So how about this: legends of dragons that persist in practically every culture on earth are either made up, nothing but legends and scary stories, or they date back to something that actually did live long ago, and the tales have been passed down through the generations. Have you ever wondered about the similarity between a pterosaur and a dragon? Both scary looking, both able to fly with huge leathery wings, both have a long tail, the pterosaur having a long beak, the dragon breathing fire. Now if pterosaurs lived millions of years ago, humans would not have stories about them passed down through subsequent generations. If pterosaurs lived just a few thousand years ago, back shortly after God created the earth, then it is much more possible that "dragon tales" could originate from human interactions with them.

Check out pterosaurs here and tell me what you think:

http://www.paleodirect.com/ptero1.htm

Something else to think about. Could the beast described in the Bible (Job 40:15-24) be a dinosaur? Could Job 41:1-34 be describing a dragon-like beast? If not, if this is simply a simile for satan, why is it so specific?

That's pretty much what I'm thinkin'. hehe The only dragon mentioned in the Bible is Satan himself.

In His love,

[Raggsokk81]

That's pretty much what I'm thinkin'. hehe The only dragon mentioned in the Bible is Satan himself.

In His love,

I do not agree with that. I revelations there is talk about satan.

But do every verse with dragon in them in the old testament talk about satan?

http://christiananswers.net/dictionary/dragon.html

You find the verses there.