Do Catholics Believe That Mary Will Crush The Head Of The Serpent, Not Jesus Christ?

[SpiritFilled]

...I have already mentioned that the role that is ascribed to Mary by Catholics is unbiblical. Let me give you more evidence of that. Below, I have included an excerpt from the Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/m.htm), [Scroll down to: Mary, Blessed Virgin, The]where the writer acknowledges that their interpretation of a passage in the book of Genesis must be more accurate than the original Hebrew text, as their interpretation ascribes more power to Mary:

The first prophecy referring to Mary is found in the very opening chapters of the Book of Genesis (3:15): "I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed; she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." This rendering appears to differ in two respects from the original Hebrew text:

(1) ...

(2) The second point of difference between the Hebrew text and our version concerns the agent who is to inflict the mortal wound on the serpent: our version agrees with the present Vulgate text in reading "she" (ipsa) which refers to the woman, while the Hebrew text reads hu' (autos, ipse) which refers to the seed of the woman. According to our version, and the Vulgate reading, the woman herself will win the victory; according to the Hebrew text, she will be victorious through her seed. In this sense does the Bull "ineffabilis" ascribe the victory to Our Blessed Lady. The reading "she" (ipsa) is neither an intentional corruption of the original text, nor is it an accidental error; it is rather an explanatory version expressing explicitly the fact of Our Lady's part in the victory over the serpent, which is contained implicitly in the Hebrew original. The strength of the Christian tradition as to Mary's share in this victory may be inferred from the retention of "she" in St. Jerome's version in spite of his acquaintance with the original text and with the reading "he" (ipse) in the old Latin version. [Highlighting added by Contender Ministries]

For the record, the text of Genesis 3:15 mentioned above is found that way only in the Catholic version of the Bible. Other versions agree with the original Hebrew text in that the seed of the woman (Jesus) will do the crushing. The Catholic Church has changed scripture to fit in with their doctrines. This tactic is the only way the Catholic Church can justify many of its teachings that are unbiblical...


Excerpted. More at: http://www.contenderministries.org/Catholicism/mariology.php


The Challoner Douay Rheims version (1914), in Genesis 3:15, says "she shall crush thy head"

http://www.sacredbible.org/challoner/OT-01_Genesis.htm


The 2005 edition of Vulgatae Editionis Sixti V et Clementis VIII, has the word "ipsa" in Genesis 3:15.

http://vulsearch.sourceforge.net/html/Gn.html

[SolitaryLamb]

:noidea I don't know what they believe and to be honest I am not sure there is a standard set of beliefs, after reading some threads in apologetics. It seems to me that every catholic pope, cardinal, bishop, priest, deacon, nun and parishioner seem to have different ideas.

I just want to mention after becoming saved I got out my old catholic "stuff" that had been stored in a box for years and years. My dh and I noticed that all the "holy cards" I had been given and collected since birth, there were 29 of them, 25 of them had a figure of Mary and over half of those had her crushing a serpent under foot. (Only one of the "holy cards" had an image of Jesus on it.) We also found this Mary/serpent image in an 1836 German catechism I had inherited, as well as all the signs of the zodiac intricately designed into the picture borders throughout the catechism.:freaked

A couple of weeks ago I attended a catholic funeral service for my Aunt, they had four different selections of "holy cards" (memorial cards that had been "blessed") to choose from. All had an image of Mary and two of the four designs had the serpent under Mary's foot with twelve stars circling her head.

Do they believe it... :noidea but it is definitely an image that is used and has been for some time.

[Pegmo]

A couple of weeks ago I attended a catholic funeral service for my Aunt, they had four different selections of "holy cards" (memorial cards that had been "blessed") to choose from. All had an image of Mary and two of the four designs had the serpent under Mary's foot with twelve stars circling her head.


Had the same experience at a recent Catholic funeral. No Jesus anywhere, only Mary on the memorial prayer cards. I never would have noticed that before I was saved. I am a former Catholic.

Catholics Believe That Mary Will Crush The Head Of The Serpent, Not Jesus Christ?


To be honest, I have never heard any Catholics talk about either Jesus or Mary crushing the serpent. I think the average Catholic doesn't have a clue about this either way. Not sure what the doctrine states.

[SpiritFilled]

:noidea I don't know what they believe and to be honest I am not sure there is a standard set of beliefs, after reading some threads in apologetics. It seems to me that every catholic pope, cardinal, bishop, priest, deacon, nun and parishioner seem to have different ideas.

I just want to mention after becoming saved I got out my old catholic "stuff" that had been stored in a box for years and years. My dh and I noticed that all the "holy cards" I had been given and collected since birth, there were 29 of them, 25 of them had a figure of Mary and over half of those had her crushing a serpent under foot. (Only one of the "holy cards" had an image of Jesus on it.) We also found this Mary/serpent image in an 1836 German catechism I had inherited, as well as all the signs of the zodiac intricately designed into the picture borders throughout the catechism.:freaked

A couple of weeks ago I attended a catholic funeral service for my Aunt, they had four different selections of "holy cards" (memorial cards that had been "blessed") to choose from. All had an image of Mary and two of the four designs had the serpent under Mary's foot with twelve stars circling her head.

Do they believe it... :noidea but it is definitely an image that is used and has been for some time.

I believe one thing is certain. It seems to me, from looking at the Catholic Encyclopedia, that they have changed/altered the original Hebrew in the Pentateuch in Genesis 3:15.

[SolitaryLamb]

I believe one thing is certain. It seems to me, from looking at the Catholic Encyclopedia, that they have changed/altered the original Hebrew in the Pentateuch in Genesis 3:15.
My husband was made aware of this after doing some reading and comparing the texts of my old catholic bible and other texts, we do believe it has been changed from original texts. To us it indicates that the woman will crush Satan and Satan will do nothing but lie in wait for her heel. (Giving authority to the woman, not the seed of the woman, who is Jesus Christ. This would also negate the malicious actions of satan within the world.)



I think the average Catholic doesn't have a clue about this either way.

I agree, in my experience, myself a former catholic, many have no biblical knowledge at all! Recently in trying to explain to a relative who asked why people were saying the movie Lion, Witch & Wardrobe had Christian overtones, I mentioned the phrase the "Lion of Judea", my relative had no idea what that term meant. When I attempted to explain it fell on deaf ears as they had it in there head anything to do with a lion meant Saint Matthew because some lion statue represented him. :(:

[Sleestak]

I've noticed the Vulgate, Douay and the online version of the Catholic Encyclopedia (early 20th century version I think) have been referenced in the Catholic "she" wording in this particular part of Genesis. These documents, as indicated, make use of "she", but what is implied in using this "she" is that because of "she" and her "yes" to God (via Gabriel's messages to her in Luke) "He" (Jesus) would come forth and be the one to crush the head of Satan.

To avoid the confusion of the implied reference, modern Catholic Bible translations use "He" rather than "she" lest one believe Mary directly, rather than the implied indirectly, crushes the head of Satan.

[bethany79]

I've had an argument with my mother on this issue just a month ago or two. I was raised as roman catholic but I am born again a few years ago now - however my mother is still very 'hardcore' roman catholic. I tried to talk to her about the deception that is in Mary and her worshipping, but she told me that loving Mary and praying to her etc. cannot be bad, afterall ' she is the one who will crush the head of the serpent at the end'. I was shocked by this sentence, exactly because my mother always 'brags' about how much more she knows the Bible than we, protestants, because she studied catholic Bible theology for two years.
The roman catholic Bible she uses is not clear on this issue (who crushes the head of the serpent.) It is not in English and on my mother tongue there is no difference between 'he' and 'she' - so if you read the passage in that language, from the catholic Bible, it truly sounds like the woman is the one who is going to crush the serpent's head at the end.
:doh

Bethany79

[buzzardhut]

It seems they are preparing for major beliefs in Mary in the One World Religion.

[SpiritFilled]

I've noticed the Vulgate, Douay and the online version of the Catholic Encyclopedia (early 20th century version I think) have been referenced in the Catholic "she" wording in this particular part of Genesis. These documents, as indicated, make use of "she", but what is implied in using this "she" is that because of "she" and her "yes" to God (via Gabriel's messages to her in Luke) "He" (Jesus) would come forth and be the one to crush the head of Satan.

To avoid the confusion of the implied reference, modern Catholic Bible translations use "He" rather than "she" lest one believe Mary directly, rather than the implied indirectly, crushes the head of Satan.

At the Catholic Encyclopedia website, it would be proper for them to not alter the Pentateuch, by placing the word ipsa where it does not belong.

It seems that they are attempting to create an implied meaning in that passage of Genesis, where one by itself does not exist.

And that could be called scriptural revisionism.

[Hootmon]

Fascinating thread.

I hadnt really appreciated before the pervasive nature of Marianism in the littlest of things...

[buzzardhut]

Here's some koolaid with only 1% Arsenic.:tea
(and old lace)

[My Abba's Child]

I think you mean Arsenic, Buzz. :D:

In His love,

[buzzardhut]

I think you mean Arsenic, Buzz. :D:

In His love,

HAHA Yeah! :rofl
It's not good to start forest fires!
Especially with our drought! :flame

[ATYCLB]

Fascinating thread.

I hadnt really appreciated before the pervasive nature of Marianism in the littlest of things...I think that's the case with most people. I know it was with me.
Once I started exploring I was amazed at just how deep it runs.

It's for that reason that I would like for the Something About Mary (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=224332)
thread(s) to be moved to Christian Chat, End Times Chat or
Birth Pangs, where more people would have a chance to see it.

I think it would be quite a shock for most to see just how regularly
this stuff runs through the media.

[buzzardhut]

I think that's the case with most people. I know it was with me.
Once I started exploring I was amazed at just how deep it runs.

It's for that reason that I would like for the Something About Mary (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=224332)
thread(s) to be moved to Christian Chat, End Times Chat or
Birth Pangs, where more people would have a chance to see it.

Did you make a request to move it?

[countmeworthy]

I posted this testimony in another thread & was asked to post it here also.

By the Grace, Favor and Mercy of God, I never made a very good Catholic girl.

I always lost or broke the string of my scapular, always lost my rosaries, always hated statues & pictures of Mary and Jesus...would get scared when I'd enter the humongous cold Catholic Churches in Mexico with their HUGE statues, stations of the crosses, lighted candles in every crook and cranny.

I went to Catholic school 12 yrs and was well versed in cathechism. In fact the only subject I ever made straight 'A's in was in Religion!! :D:

I remember spitting out a piece of hot dog when I was 12 yrs old because at that time Catholics didn't eat meat on Fridays. I forgot it was a friday since it was summertime & my nextdoor neighbor/friend who was a Baptist asked me why I was eating meat on Friday!!! I remember my knees knocking for fear I had committed a 'Mortal sin'. :twitch I wouldn't be able to go to confession until the following day:faint and hoped I didn't die:Cry before then for if a person died with Mortal Sin, you'd go straight to hell. Eating meat on Fridays was a mortal sin if my memory serves me well. I'm certain I had committed a mortal sin because I was really scared !!! :fear If it had been a 'veniel sin' I'd committed, I wouldn't have been as scared. If you died with 'Veniel' sin, you'd go to purgatory. You'd still be tortured in burning flames of fire but not for eternity.

One recollection I have is that my grandmother once gave me a beautiful statue of Mary with her foot or feet crushing the serpent's head. I remember thinking it really WAS a beautiful statue & found it odd that I admired it. :confused

A couple of days later, I bumped into the corner table it was on & the blasted thing fell to the floor and broke right on the FACE of Mary. :eek

I can't explain why I felt it was a 'sign' of something... Little did I know back then, :bounce :thumb I was one of the Chosen ones, only by the Lord's tender mercy.

After I got saved, I remember how John14:6 made such an impact on me.

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Yeppers... praying to Mary, the saints, praying the Rosary, wearing scapulars, lighting candles cannot save us, nor can we come to God through such things. We can only come to the Father, through His Beloved Son, Jesus.

For those who were born & raised here in S.A., as a btw, I went to St. John Berchmans grade school and St Francis Academy for my high school. ...way down in the south-west part of town.