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buzzardhut
January 13th, 2006, 09:52 AM
http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletters/2006+Newsletters/125701.aspx

Hundreds of fulfilled prophecies prove God’s existence, that the Bible is His inerrant Word, the Jews His chosen people, and Jesus of Nazareth the promised Messiah who died for our sins, has resurrected, and is coming again. Yet prophecy is neglected by most Christian preachers and writers. No wonder that the “last-days” apostasy warned of in God’s Word is now upon us with a vengeance!

The few who do teach prophecy, when referring to “last-days signs,” seldom mention apostasy. Yet when asked by His disciples, “What shall be the sign of thy coming...?” (Mt 24:3), Christ three times warned that the major sign would be apostasy, with false prophets and false Christs using false “signs and wonders” to deceive (24:4-5,11,?24). That warning was echoed by Paul
(2 Tm 3:8) and by Jude, who said we must “earnestly contend for the faith...once delivered to the saints” because “certain men [have] crept [into the church] unawares...ungodly men...denying...God, and...Christ” (Jude 3-4).

“False Christs”?! There have been many in our day, from Jim Jones to David Koresh. Numerous gurus in India claim to be “Christ.” The false “Christs” presented by novels, videos, and movies have multiplied since Jesus Christ Superstar. The “Jesus” of The DaVinci Code is a fraud. The “Jesus” of ABC-TV’s Judas confessed that he “blew it” in chasing the moneychangers out of the Temple. The media bombards us with false Christs!

That evangelical leaders called Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ “biblically accurate” is distressing. It was almost entirely unbiblical: A sinful man pretending to be the One who declared, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” and whom Paul described as “God manifest in the flesh”; this Hollywood “Christ” stomping on a huge serpent slithering into Gethsemane, and Satan tempting Him there; the two Marys wiping up “Christ’s” blood with linens supplied by Pilate’s wife; “Christ,” knocked off a bridge on the way to Calvary, dangling from a chain and confronting Judas hiding beneath; “Saint Veronica” giving her veil to “Christ” to wipe his face, and the image of his face remaining on it as the first icon; a raven plucking out the eye of a thief on an adjoining cross; the endless beatings by Roman soldiers, giving the false impression that Christ’s physical sufferings paid for our sins, etc. None of this is in the Bible! Nor was there even a hint of the true payment for sin: “The Lord laid on him the iniquity of us all...it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,” etc. The Passion portrayed a false gospel of mostly myth!

The Bible is being “improved” by script writers, movie directors, and actors, who are replacing the actual “incorruptible...word of God” by which we are “born again,” with dramatic representations. The entire New Testament is now on video, which may soon be the only “Bible” youth know. Who will earnestly contend?

For three years, “night and day with tears” (Acts 20:31), Paul warned the Ephesian elders about coming apostasy. Who warns about apostasy today? Rick Warren wouldn’t dare for fear of losing his following. A prophesied apostasy doesn’t fit Warren’s plans and popularity, nor does it fit the mushrooming growth of other mega churches—or does it? Is the Bible wrong—or is this the apostasy foretold? What is the real condition of the church? A recent Barna poll revealed that 71 percent of Americans, 64 percent of “born-agains,” and 40 percent of “evangelicals” reject absolute truth.

Paul faithfully declared “all the counsel of God [holding] back nothing” (Acts 20:20,?27). But the church today, like the world it mimics, believes the lie that to be “successful” one must always be “positive.” Thus, most of the Bible is avoided. Were Jeremiah or any other prophets “positive”? Was Jesus “positive” when He said, “...except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Lk 13:3,5)? He repeatedly warned about hell. From which Christian leaders do we hear such warnings today?

Watching TBN, or reading James Rutz’s MegaShift (“A megashift of spiritual power...is about to...put [the world] into vastly better shape....A whole new form of Christianity promises to bring a far greater impact than the Protestant Reformation”), would lead one to believe that the real sign of the last days is a worldwide revival (the “latter rain outpouring of the Spirit”) fueled by miraculous “signs and wonders.” The Bible, however, calls it a deadly delusion led by false prophets.

Peter Howard, executive assistant to Bishop Michael Sheridan, head of the Catholic Diocese of Colorado Springs, warned Catholics not to attend Protestant services. In “positive” response, Ted Haggard, Senior Pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs and president of the 30-million-member National Association of Evangelicals (NAE), said, “New Life doesn’t try to ‘convert’ Catholics” and would never discourage its members “from becoming Catholic or attending Catholic Mass.” The 16th-century Reformers would be aghast!

The Council of Trent (1545-1563) was the response of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) to the Reformation. It pronounced more than 100 anathemas against the true gospel, damning to hell all who believe it. For example: “If anyone says that the sacraments of the New Law [Catholic rituals] are not necessary for salvation but...men obtain from God through faith alone the grace of justification...let him be anathema.”

On December 31, 1995, honoring Trent’s 450th anniversary, Pope John Paul II declared: “Its conclusions maintain all their value.” Those who claim that Christ paid the full penalty for sin on the Cross, who deny the necessity of suffering for one’s sins in purgatory, and who reject indulgences to shorten that suffering are still anathematized by Rome. Yet in The Body (1992), Charles Colson denied that indulgences are still offered by Rome. I sent him the seventeen pages on indulgences from Vatican II, including Pope Paul’s anathema upon those who deny indulgences today. Colson never acknowledged his error, which has led multitudes astray.

The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association published a special “Crusade Edition” (1962, 1964, 1969) of Halley’s Bible Handbook and boldly removed Halley’s careful documentation of the evil of the popes and the slaughter of true Christians. Zondervan published a revised edition of Halley’s Bible Handbook in 2000, which likewise eliminated references to the RCC’s heresies and the millions of evangelical Christians slaughtered by Rome. Instead, it says: “The Roman Catholic Church responded to the Protestant Reformation by reforming and renewing itself.”

When challenged about its lies, Stan Gundry, Zondervan’s Vice President and Editor-in-Chief responded, “The purpose of the rewriting was...to give a more balanced portrayal of the history of Christianity.” Whitewashing Roman Catholic doctrine and practice and leaving out the slaughter of millions of Christians gives a “more balanced” history?! And who owns Zondervan, publisher of The Purpose-Driven Life?

In 1988, Zondervan and its NIV Bible were purchased by Harper & Row Publishers (now HarperCollins Publishers), who put out pro-homosexual books such as Making Out, The Book of Lesbian Sex and Sexuality (“Beautifully illustrated with full-color photography...”) and others! HarperCollins is a subsidiary of Rupert Murdoch’s The News Corporation, which owns Twentieth Century Fox and Fox Broadcasting. The latter produces some of the most immoral, anti-family shows on television. Murdoch—to whom Pat Robertson sold the Family Channel (paid for by CBN donors) for $1.9 billion—was knighted by the Pope after donating $10 million for a new Catholic cathedral in Los Angeles. And Rick Warren claims to be Murdoch’s pastor.

Christian publishers have put profits ahead of sound doctrine and have made a lot of money by giving customers what they want instead of the biblical truth they need, selling out to the world monetarily as they already had morally. Isn’t this the opposite of contending for the faith?

On October 31, 1999, in Augsburg, Germany, representatives of the Lutheran World Federation and of the RCC signed a Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification (JDDJ). The Reformation was overturned! Colson says, “Justification by faith alone...doesn’t mean today among evangelicals what it meant in the reformers’ time.” The gospel has changed?!

For 1.1 billion Roman Catholics nothing changed. They still pray to Mary for salvation and wear her scapular, which declares, “Whosoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire.” What an insult to Christ! The very doctrine of indulgences that sparked the Reformation remains a mainstay of Catholicism. Mocking JDDJ, John Paul II opened four “holy doors” in Rome and offered plenary indulgences for walking through them. (Catholic pilgrims came by the millions to do so, rejecting Christ as the only door to eternal life!)

Kneeling beside the Pope in front of the first “holy door” opened was George Carey, Archbishop of Canterbury and spiritual head of the Church of England. John Stott said, “Evangelicals should join [the] Church of England in working toward full communion with the Roman Catholic Church.”

Do we believe the entire Bible or just the “positive” parts of it? Jesus said, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see [or enter] the kingdom of God” (Jn 3:3,5). Peter said that a man is “born again...by the word of God...which by the gospel is preached” (1 Pt 1:23-25). Without believing the gospel, one is lost eternally (Rom 1:16; Acts 16:31, etc.). Haggard affirms “the necessity of being born again....” Yet he accepts Catholics as Christians who have been born again by infant baptism!

What is the faith (gospel) for which we are to “earnestly contend”? Paul defines it as the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ according to the Scriptures. Surely that involves who God is, who Christ is, the problem between God and man, the only means of man’s forgiveness by God, and the eternal consequences for those who reject the biblical gospel—all according to the Scriptures.

The entire Word of God is foundational to the faith. Sadly, the church and world are being robbed of the pure Word of God by professing evangelicals. Eugene Peterson’s The Message (NavPress, 1993) changes God’s Word into the “social gospel,” downgrading salvation to earthly improvement. (See TBC Oct ’95; Feb ’04.) The Renovaré “Bible” rejects divine inspiration and prophecies about Israel and Christ. (See TBC Aug ’05.)

The subject of Israel takes up most of the Bible. Its history and prophets lay the foundation for the Messiah’s identity and mission. If the Bible is not 100 percent true about Israel (as many evangelicals claim), we cannot believe what it says about Christ and our “redemption through His blood.”

For decades, Billy Graham has declared that his beliefs are “essentially the same as those of orthodox Roman Catholics....” He praised Pope John Paul II as a preacher of the true gospel and for “his strong Catholic faith,” hailing him as “the greatest moral and spiritual leader of the last 100 years....I don’t know anyone else that I could put as high as he is. He’s traveled the whole world...spreading the Catholic faith....He and I agree on almost everything.”

It is indisputable that John Paul II, though praised by evangelicals, trusted Mary instead of Christ for his eternal destiny. (See TBC May ’05.) Yet, like Graham, Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, emphasized that any disagreements Protestants may have had “with John Paul II are [irrelevant] to the foundations of the faith.” Land praised the Pope’s “staunch defense of traditional Christian faith....” Pat Robertson enthused, “Pope John Paul II stands like a rock...in his clear enunciation of the foundational principles of the Christian faith.” Jack Van Impe has hailed the Pope as a staunch Christian and defender of the faith. J.I. Packer, a
signatory to ECT, called John Paul II “a fine Christian man” and declared, “Catholics are among the most loyal and virile brothers evangelicals can find these days.”

Who will obey Jude’s injunction to “earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints”? Not Rick Warren. Nor has Billy Graham ever raised a voice against those who deny the faith. Charles Dullea, Jesuit Superior of Rome’s Pontifical Biblical Institute, urged Catholics to attend Graham’s crusades because “A Catholic will hear...no word against Mass or Sacraments or Catholic practice.” Graham called the Mass “a very beautiful thing...straight and clear in the gospel I believe....” He recommended a biography of Pope John XXIII as “a classic in devotion.” Yet it contains page after page of John XXIII’s devotion to Mary and the Saints, worship of the host, and trust in the sacraments for salvation.

Billy Graham hailed Bishop Fulton Sheen as the “greatest communicator of the 20th century.” Though Sheen preached a false gospel, Billy exulted in their “common commitment to evangelism” and thanked Sheen “for his ministry and his focus on Christ.” Yet Sheen’s hope of heaven was in his 40 pilgrimages to Marian shrines at Fatima and Lourdes. When Sheen died, Billy said, “I...look forward to our reunion in heaven.”

Many evangelical leaders who generally preach the true gospel, commend, approve of, and praise those who preach a false gospel. Is it any less damning to souls for Billy Graham to praise and endorse Norman Vincent Peale, Robert Schuller, Pope John Paul II, and others who preach a false gospel than to preach it himself?

In The Body, Chuck Colson called for union with Rome. In an article titled, “Why Catholics are Our Allies,” he wrote: “And let’s be certain that we are firing our polemical rifles against the enemies, not [allies] fighting in the trenches alongside us in the defense of the Truth.” It would shock the Reformers (especially the millions Rome tortured and slaughtered for their faith in Christ) to learn that the enemies of the gospel were actually their allies “in defense of the Truth”!

Just as His people Israel, to whom He sent His prophets to warn them of their apostasy and its dire consequences, would not listen, so it is today in the church. Glad to follow any pied piper who plays an enticing tune, and unwilling (and one day unable) to hear the Lord, millions dance merrily on to judgment. Time on this earth will soon end. Let us earnestly contend for “the faith once delivered unto the saints”-—and thereby rescue many before it is forever too late. And may our example give renewed courage and conviction to many others.

Harley
January 13th, 2006, 10:37 AM
in case you don't want to read the whole article, or the rest of the newsletter... here's a list of everyone who is apostate, or at least complicit with apostasy:
mel gibson’s “the passion of the christ”
tbn
james rutz
charles colson
billy graham association
ted haggard
stan gundry, zondervan
zondervan itself
the niv [he makes reference to it, but does not actual comment on it]
pope john paul the second
george carey archbishop of cantebury
eugene peterson
richard land, sbc guy
pat robertson
javk van impe
j i packer
john piper
rick crocker – cma pastor
richard foster
bruce demarest

he also said we should “question the commitment to christ" and the gospel of:
j i packer
every signer of the ect
every christian psychologist
rick warren
bill bright
josh mcdowell
david jeremiah
james dobson

Jesus Groupie
January 13th, 2006, 10:47 AM
That is something to chew on. I had never looked at some of these views before.

haeschen
January 13th, 2006, 10:50 AM
This is a good summary of the ongoing apostasy and its interconnections with Rome. Read it carefully with an open mind and pray, pray, pray!

Harley
January 13th, 2006, 11:03 AM
The thing that amazed me is how many people we are to avoid as apostate - gosh it's hard to keep up... and sometime we can't even know, for example are there any christian psycholgists on this bb... am i one?

TRUTHSEEKER815
January 13th, 2006, 11:19 AM
The thing that amazed me is how many people we are to avoid as apostate - gosh it's hard to keep up... and sometime we can't even know, for example are there any christian psycholgists on this bb... am i one?
I agree!Who's left to beleve?I agree with the overall gist of apostasy,but I fully disagree with several pointed out-namely,"The Passion"-I heard and saw too many non-believers "saved" due to this production,regardless of how it was presented.I personally have a copy of it and watch it frequently to remind me of what our Lord actually went thru.This article is one person's opinion only,although it's my humble opinion,also!:)I still disagree with much of it;however......

Harley
January 13th, 2006, 11:30 AM
I agree!Who's left to beleve?I agree with the overall gist of apostasy,but I fully disagree with several pointed out-namely,"The Passion"-I heard and saw too many non-believers "saved" due to this production,regardless of how it was presented.I personally have a copy of it and watch it frequently to remind me of what our Lord actually went thru.I feel alot of this article s one person's opinion,although this is my humble opinion,also.:)
yeah - i laughed at the part about the passion being "...almost entirely unbiblical:" sure, hunt is correct that the list that followed were things in the movie that are not in the gospel - but so what, he's just filling in some details, and as long as they don't counterdict the account...

anyway, i thought the bit about questioning the commitment to christ (and encouraging the readers to do the same) of packer, warren, bright, mcdowell, jeremiah, dobson - and every christian psychologist... well, that was enough for me to write off anything else he has to say.

Harley
January 13th, 2006, 11:35 AM
the bit about questioning these guys' faith was not in the editorial from the op. it is, however in a response in the Q & A section of the same January edition - pg. 5.

and i failed to mention some others we are to question as well: graham and colson (of course) as well as everyone who believes anyone on the list.

TRUTHSEEKER815
January 13th, 2006, 11:40 AM
the bit about questioning these guys' faith was not in the editorial from the op. it is, however in a response in the Q & A section of the same January edition - pg. 5.

and i failed to mention some others we are to question as well: graham and colson (of course) as well as everyone who believes anyone on the list.
Amen,Harley!Who else is left to believe?He got a little bit carried away,I think.....

mikitta
January 13th, 2006, 03:13 PM
Count me apostate in Hunt's eyes then. I have great respect for Chuck Colson, David Jeremiah, James Dobson and Josh McDowell. I'll take being apostate in man's eyes and stay committed to Christ and dependant on His Word any day ;p

God Bless,
mik

busterdog
January 13th, 2006, 04:58 PM
[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]in case you don't want to read the whole article, or the rest of the newsletter... here's a list of everyone who is apostate, or at least complicit with apostasy

You know, that really was helpful. Thank you.

So, how do ye git to sign to be one a them apostates?

busterdog
January 13th, 2006, 05:21 PM
... questioning the commitment to christ (and encouraging the readers to do the same) of packer, warren, bright, mcdowell, jeremiah, dobson - and every christian psychologist ...

And every one of them would probably agree that they could do a much better job. So in what way should that distinguish them?

What is the whole counsel of God anyway? I bet it is not something that should divide us from the likes of these servants.

But, really, who does have it all? The WHOLE counsel of God?

In the John, Ch.1 sense, lifting up Jesus Christ is lifting up all of the Word. Isn't that what these guys did?

There is at least as much condemnation for "dividing the body" in Paul as there is for any other condemned doctrine, except perhaps incarnation and resurrection itself.

nooneuno
January 13th, 2006, 06:14 PM
Count me apostate in Hunt's eyes then. I have great respect for Chuck Colson, David Jeremiah, James Dobson and Josh McDowell. I'll take being apostate in man's eyes and stay committed to Christ and dependant on His Word any day ;p

:nod :nod

Pegmo
January 13th, 2006, 06:49 PM
Apostate or not....the Holy Spirit used "The Passion of the Christ" movie to reach me and bring me to faith in Christ.

buzzardhut
January 13th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Apostate or not....the Holy Spirit used "The Passion of the Christ" movie to reach me and bring me to faith in Christ.
I know a couple that got saved at a Jehovah's Witness meeting.

Pegmo
January 13th, 2006, 08:03 PM
I know a couple that got saved at a Jehovah's Witness meeting.

Isn't that great. I love the way the Holy Spirit works....able to use all the Truth and then some.

stormtrooper
January 13th, 2006, 09:13 PM
I tend to agree with Dave Hunt. I do not believe that Evangelicals should be compromising with the Vatican. To claim that Rome's Gospel is the same as in the Bible is flat out wrong.

scott stewart
January 13th, 2006, 09:30 PM
Here we go again!

If Dave Hunt is qualified to know what's in a man's heart then.....!

The gospel is preached and as Jesus said, If you are not against us you are for us!

Dave Hunt is not qualified to judge what's in a mans heart period!

He can contend for the faith but he cannot judge what is in a mans heart, least he be judged, and in that case I would not want to be in his shoes!

God Bless
The Scotsman

busterdog
January 13th, 2006, 11:26 PM
Isn't that great. I love the way the Holy Spirit works....able to use all the Truth and then some.

I'm sure it would raise your hair to hear how a lot of people ended up going to Jesus. Like me. However, it is funny how you lose your taste for sharing while you watch fellow Christians being rhetorically barbecued.

Rich A
January 14th, 2006, 12:52 AM
Now, if you would actually like to read what the newsletter REALLY says go to this link and download the January 2006 newsletter pdf file and then double click the file to have it open up in Adobe Reader. The link that is shown above is NOT the entire contents of the newsletter.

http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletters/Newsletter+PDF+files/2006+PDF/125702.aspx

There is no such list as is shown above by Harley and Dave Hunt never says that you should question the salvation or commitment to Christ of any of these people directly. Harley simply took the names out of the article and created these lists and then added Harley's Words Not Dave's "in case you don't want to read the whole article, or the rest of the newsletter... here's a list of everyone who is apostate, or at least complicit with apostasy:

he also said we should “question the commitment to christ" and the gospel of:"


Dave never used those phrases in the way that Harley wrote them. Harley came up with them himself, check the source. I AM NOT TRYING TO SAY THAT HARLEY IS INTENTIONALLY LYING BUT THE WAY HE HAS PRESENTED THINGS IS NOT AN ACCURATE PORTRAYAL OF DAVE HUNT'S ORIGINAL STATEMENTS.

I am a former professional journalist with a bachelors degree in journalism and I have been a newspapaper reporter and editor. One of the easiest ways to make someone look like they said something is to take some things they said and then put them into your own format (Harley's list) and then use your own words to describe them in such a way that it looks like the original writer said it that way.

These people are discussed as to their respective ministries and he gives examples of how he feels they may have compromised the gospel. He NEVER claims to know another man's heart and never claims they are not saved.

Go to the source of the article and DO read it for yourself as the statement that Harley made above as to the list Harley shows is not accurate. Don't simply trust what others have to say about someone else. Find out yourself by bypassing hearsay and reading the article yourself.

This thread, once again, makes me sick to see people skewering Dave Hunt by twisting his words or completely leaving out his words.

It is really ironic that people so often misquote Dave Hunt out of context and leave out important details about things he has said or add their own words to make it sound like he said them and then others make comments without having read the whole thing or simply trust what someone else has said about him.

The main message of The Berean Call Ministry is that people should check things out for themselves and not simply believe what others say about a subject. Dave Hunt and T.A. McMahon are constantly saying "Don't just simply believe what we say because we said it. Go check it out for yourselves."

vesper
January 14th, 2006, 05:07 AM
To quote Rich A....
These people are discussed as to their respective ministries and he gives examples of how he feels they may have compromised the gospel. He NEVER claims to know another man's heart and never claims they are not saved.

I was wondering where Hunt said this about those guys. Didn't see him ever say otherwise. Fact is though, that everytime someone says something that even remotely brings to question what a famous evangelical 'leader' says (such as Dobson, Graham, etc.) people go on the defensive twisting the words to make it seem as though one is questioning their salvation when it is entirely not the case.
I see nothing wrong with Hunt's article. Finally things are being said that need to be said before the one world merging of the faiths is completed.

I could say I don't understand why some of the most popular church leaders seem to be mingling with what we were warned of in the Revelation, but then that would make me a liar.
I know perfectly well what is happening.
And if more followers of Christ would open their Bibles instead of those feel good books written by men for profit and gain, they too would see it. And sooner or later they will see it.

Tammy/Kansas
January 14th, 2006, 08:01 AM
Count me apostate in Hunt's eyes then. I have great respect for Chuck Colson, David Jeremiah, James Dobson and Josh McDowell. I'll take being apostate in man's eyes and stay committed to Christ and dependant on His Word any day ;p

God Bless,
mik

I also have great respect for Pope John Paul II. He brought me closer to my faith and started making me read the Bible again. I think he was a great man and I doubt there will be another pope like him. I to believe that the only way to heaven is through Christ our Lord...amen, and Pope John Paul II helped me alot.
YSIC
Tammy:clap

Harley
January 14th, 2006, 01:19 PM
i am not one to open a thread on the same topic as one previously locked. But when my accuracy and intergity are questioned, and the thread locked before I can respond - then i will.

a thread locked in the end times section regarded dave hunt. i posted quoting dave's newsletter to which Rich A responded:
Now, if you would actually like to read what the newsletter REALLY says go to this link and download the January 2006 newsletter pdf file and then double click the file to have it open up in Adobe Reader. The link that is shown above is NOT the entire contents of the newsletter.

http://www.thebereancall.org/Newslet...DF/125702.aspx

There is no such list as is shown above by Harley and Dave Hunt never says that you should question the salvation or commitment to Christ of any of these people directly. Harley simply took the names out of the article and created these lists and then added Harley's Words Not Dave's "in case you don't want to read the whole article, or the rest of the newsletter... here's a list of everyone who is apostate, or at least complicit with apostasy:

he also said we should “question the commitment to christ" and the gospel of:"


Dave never used those phrases in the way that Harley wrote them. Harley came up with them himself, check the source. I AM NOT TRYING TO SAY THAT HARLEY IS INTENTIONALLY LYING BUT THE WAY HE HAS PRESENTED THINGS IS NOT AN ACCURATE PORTRAYAL OF DAVE HUNT'S ORIGINAL STATEMENTS.

I am a former professional journalist with a bachelors degree in journalism and I have been a newspapaper reporter and editor. One of the easiest ways to make someone look like they said something is to take some things they said and then put them into your own format (Harley's list) and then use your own words to describe them in such a way that it looks like the original writer said it that way.

These people are discussed as to their respective ministries and he gives examples of how he feels they may have compromised the gospel. He NEVER claims to know another man's heart and never claims they are not saved.

Go to the source of the article and DO read it for yourself as the statement that Harley made above as to the list Harley shows is not accurate. Don't simply trust what others have to say about someone else. Find out yourself by bypassing hearsay and reading the article yourself.

This thread, once again, makes me sick to see people skewering Dave Hunt by twisting his words or completely leaving out his words.

It is really ironic that people so often misquote Dave Hunt out of context and leave out important details about things he has said or add their own words to make it sound like he said them and then others make comments without having read the whole thing or simply trust what someone else has said about him.

The main message of The Berean Call Ministry is that people should check things out for themselves and not simply believe what others say about a subject. Dave Hunt and T.A. McMahon are constantly saying "Don't just simply believe what we say because we said it. Go check it out for yourselves."

as you can see Rich A accuses me of coming up with the words myself, and defends dave hunt by saying he never questioned anyone's salvation. below is the entire Q & A with the portion i quoted in bold face.

Please notice:
1) i used the exact phrase dave hunt used - "shouldn’t we question the commitment to Christ " and
2) i never accussed dave of questioning anyone's salvation.

i hate threads such as this one, but my honor was atttacked.

i posted here since i this defense better suited for this section.

Question: You and Tom both wrote good, factual articles in TBC and did ten radio programs about Rick Warren and The Purpose-Driven Life. Then, at his invitation, you [Dave] attended a pastors conference at Saddleback, and when you returned you seemed to have softened your position. As you know, Warren has had a column in the Ladies’ Home Journal for nearly a year. I have yet to find the gospel in any of them! What he does present is pop psychology exactly like Robert Schuller, yet you say he has broken all ties with Schuller. Here is just one example from his March 2005 column: “Self-esteem still wobbly...? These five simple truths will show you that you don’t need to be perfect to be priceless....To truly love yourself, you need to know the five truths that form the basis of a healthy self-image: Accept yourself; Love yourself; Be true to yourself; Forgive yourself; Believe in yourself.” This is typical of the non-sequiturs Warren offers. He promises five “truths” but gives five things to do, none of them a truth. This is pop psychology that even numerous secular psychologists and psychiatrists have refuted—and it contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture. Warren’s “accept...love...be true to... forgive...believe in yourself ” blatantly opposes Christ’s “except a man deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me, he cannot be my disciple” (Matthew 16:24; Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23, etc.). How can you say Warren loves the Lord and has a passion for souls when his actions do not support such a claim? I think many people have been confused by your apparent change from criticizing Rick Warren to apparently supporting him.

Answer: Thank you for your concern. Hearing Rick in person and talking with him face to face gave me a different opinion from the one I had formed by reading his books and watching him on video. I would still say that he is a sincere Christian who genuinely desires the salvation of souls.
That he so seldom, and then usually only obliquely, presents the gospel is an inexcusable contradiction—but that can be said of many Christian leaders. Joel Osteen has built the largest church in America (30,000 each weekend) by doing the same thing! Rick’s defenders told me that he wanted to gain the attention and trust of Journal readers before giving them the gospel— but he hasn’t done so. [See Q&A Apr. ’05.] Instead, as you say, he has given them the lies of pop psychology—again inexcusable. He can’t be that ignorant—certainly not after reading the Bible for years. I had hoped through personal contact with Rick to help him. That opportunity seems to have passed. His huge success makes any admission of error increasingly difficult. Rick is not alone in the promotion of psychology’s deadly selfisms. They are nowcommon fare in the church. Nor is he alone (and perhaps not the worst) in partnering with Roman Catholics and promoting AA’s occult 12 Steps. That does not excuse Rick. But shouldn’t we question the commitment to Christ and the gospel on the part of Billy Graham, Chuck Colson, and Bill Bright (all three praised Sir John Marks Templeton and his prize for progress toward the Antichrist’s world religion and failed to give the gospel to the vast and needy audiences when they accepted that prize), J.I. Packer and every other signatory to ECT, Josh McDowell, David Jeremiah, James Dobson, and every Christian psychologist, and all who accept and promote their lies? Sadly, Rick is merely a reflection of the church of today. I am not excusing Rick Warren. I believe he is a genuine brother who has been led into compromise in order to reach a wider audience—but with what? He seems to
be only part of a compromise of biblical truth that has enlisted Christian leaders as never before in history and is playing into Satan’s plan to produce a false church for Antichrist. In his December 2005 article, Warren encouraged Journal readers to “offer a taste of God's peace to those who’ve lost hope... by following the example of Jesus.” It was good advice for Christians, but deadly deception for unsaved readers. The Ladies’ Home Journal is one of the ten largest magazines in America with about 14.5 million readers. Millions of women who desperately need the gospel that will take them to heaven were instead treated to Warren’s P.E.A.C.E. plan to improve life on earth: “Plant faith communities [any ‘faith’ will do whose adherents are willing to follow the plan]; Equip leaders [for earthly secular tasks]; Assistthe poor [for a better life on earth]; Care for the sick [but what about the soul?]; Educate the next generation [for this brief life].” We credit Rick and his wife, Kay, with having tender hearts for the physical needs of the poor, uneducated, and dying, and for good works that put many of us to shame. But we fault them for hiding the gospel from those who need it and who without it will perish for eternity!
Dave Hunt, The Berean Call, January 2006, pgs., 5-6

i don't want this to degenerate any farther, so i will make this defense and not post in this thread again.