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loveprevails
January 13th, 2006, 01:06 AM
A way of thinking prevailing in the majority of church goer’s minds and hearts goes something like this...

Jesus died and paid my debt so if i mentally accept this truth, go to church often, and read the bible more often i will go to heaven when i die.

This is a plastic way of thinking from today's time and veils the truth.


The eternal gospel involves a Savior who came from heaven from the bosom of the God the Father (who is to be ever praised) to a world of men caught in their own sins and worthless traditions. Jesus Christ, a savior born of a virgin, who came to save His people from their sins. Jesus came to save all men even the seemingly religious folk from arrogance and pride, their useless traditions, there false thoughts concerning God, their OWN perception of truth. He came to make them blind so they could see; he came to rebuke them so they could live. To turn them from their SELF-dependence and false hopes that comes from the pride of human reason and understanding. He came to call sinners not 'good' people... and grant them repentance from there sin... of pride, wrath, envy, selfishness and EVERY hint of sexual immorality. He suffered and died and crushed Satan's head and forgave all our sins (no where in the gospel does it relate the redemptive work of Christ to paying a debt, rather "that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them.")... He accepted our wages of sin on Himself. WE worked hard for the death that comes from sin. We labored for it. And we received the result of working in sin... the curse of death, and spiritual death. And God in His wisdom sent His Son Jesus Christ in the flesh, who knew no sin, to be sin...

"God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 1 Corinth. 5:21

Literally, not just some distant impartation... God really and truly works in His children true righteousness. Faith in Christ produces obedience to God's command "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Now by God's grace and power working in our hearts we labor (not us-His grace in us) in righteousness for eternal life. We may slip and doubt but more and more we rest in His power, more and more we praise His name, aiming to please God and doing His will - while HATEing our own selfish will. We rest on His power and His promises and strive to make it in through the strait gate, knowing that few will ever find it. The narrower the gate seems the more we call on Jesus and depend on His work on the cross. The more the living waters flow out of our hearts... and the more our SELVES disappear and the image of God is restored. We aim for perfection and the higher our goal of perfection the more we need to depend on God to work it in us... in truth. A hating of evil in our OWN hearts and a riding ourselves of "... all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind."



Do not say in your hearts... "im doing ok, im better than most people i see... i don't drink, i don't do drugs, im not sexually immoral...i go to church twice a week" Is this the righteousness of God? Is this the wisdom of God? Is this walking in the Spirit? Is this the mind of Christ considering others better than ourselves?

Some trust in the things they think they know, they should think again and let them go... This is not the same it is a different thing, altogether - put away the sword and get behind! This is love. Agape love (love for all men) is what we need.



God also raised this same Jesus from the dead... and now Jesus Christ sits at the right hand of the Father in Heaven. Hallelujah!

When Christ said "the kingdom of God is within you"... He meant it. If we wonder why our lives are not as holy, and righteous as St. Paul's or the other apostles... we only need to look as far as where our treasure is... "where your treasure is there your heart will also be" If our treasure is truly in heaven... denying ourselves and taking up our cross daily won't just be a prayer it will be a reality. If our treasure is in heaven... why should we fret if someone steals our digital camera? Why would i spend my time as the world does, wasting it in the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and in the pride of life? This is certain -without holiness no one will see the Lord.

"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many."
heb. 14,15

The Gospel involves the King Love, living in hearts and sanctifying them through and through. Not sunday mourning, some heartless prayers, and a vigorous study of the bible... the pharisees had that and more. No, obedience to the gospel involves a whole life devoted to God, given to God. A waiting and watching for the coming of the bridegroom, a life of love, of loving enemies, of mourning over sin in your own heart, of rejoicing in hope, patience in affliction, of laying down your life for your brothers, of giving with your left with out letting your right hand knowing it, of prayer and fasting in SECRECT so that our Father in heaven will reward us, of pouring our hearts out to God for strength, of leaning on the breast of Christ for LIFE.
OF eating His flesh and drinking His blood.

Our Father... cause us to forsake all for the Christ like joy of your presence.


But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? heb. 22-25




Yes, this life starts very small, as small as a mustard seed. But, it does not remain so, "yet when planted, it grows and becomes the largest of all garden plants, with such big branches that the birds of the air can perch in its shade." mark 40:32

A childlike yearning and mourning and longing to be filled with righteousness which comes from the grace of God in you. With more and more care, nurture this hunger... and "Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good."


What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?






Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
"Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.'

"But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city


"Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.' So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

"But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless.

"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

Paying Taxes to Caesar
Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words.

matt. 22:1-15


Let us show our faith by what we do!

Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said,
"Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you." So we say with confidence,
"The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid.
What can man do to me?" heb. 5,6




"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." revelation 22:12,13


we are in this battle for our hearts together,
paul

LDinthewoods
January 13th, 2006, 02:21 AM
"But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless.

"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

"For many are invited, but few are chosen." Why did he throw the man out? I have never understood this since in other chapters it talks about the least being the most, etc. Why did this man get thrown out for not having nice clothes? Why was he not chosen?

holyspiritvesse
January 13th, 2006, 07:07 AM
He wasn't wearing the wedding clothes, meaning he had not be transformed by the Holy Spirit by a true saving faith.

We are made white as snow, (wedding clothes) when we are born again.

LDinthewoods
January 13th, 2006, 07:33 AM
I guess it is the word "chosen" that is throwing me off....the man was invited, he willingly came to the wedding but he was not chosen? Why did he get invited if he wasn't going to get chosen? (I'm guessing this is a parallel to being born-again?)

holyspiritvesse
January 13th, 2006, 09:13 AM
I think it proves that we all are chosen, but that it is our part to put on (accept) the wedding clothes (salvation).

loveprevails
January 13th, 2006, 10:32 AM
Why did he throw the man out? I have never understood this since in other chapters it talks about the least being the most, etc. Why did this man get thrown out for not having nice clothes? Why was he not chosen?

He thought He already had nice enough clothes without the Counsler....and never recognized in His heart his deep need for Christ to provide the wedding clothes..



We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

rev 3.
....I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. 3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. 4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. 6He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

....17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.
18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.



The kingdom of heaven is a poor man's kingdom. It's that many never recognize their poorness~ truly and in their hearts... but only have a shallow, false, and hollow intellectual acceptance of their poorness.

The good news only comes to the poor... the rich (exspecially the "religious" rich) first need to hear the bad news (truth)... THEY ARE more POOR than all the prostitues, politicians, and drug dealers!


Isaiah 61
1The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,

2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor
and the day of vengeance of our God,
to comfort all who mourn,

3 and provide for those who grieve in Zion—
to bestow on them a crown of beauty
instead of ashes,
the oil of gladness
instead of mourning,
and a garment of praise
instead of a spirit of despair.
They will be called oaks of righteousness,
a planting of the LORD
for the display of his splendor.



"my soul waits for you more than watchmen wait for the morning,
more than watchmen wait for the mourning."

for i am poor and needy...

we are to be poor and humble- always needing and depending on Christ for strength, wisdom, and understanding. ~for life and love

i am yours,
paul

haeschen
January 13th, 2006, 11:04 AM
LDinthewoods, you got a good question! I used to wonder too - but no more. It was the custom in those days to give the guests their wedding clothes - but this guy DID NOT PUT THEM ON.
We are given garments too - robe of righteousness, the garment of praise, etc. We are asked to put them on by faith.

loveprevails
January 13th, 2006, 11:28 AM
Amen... thanx for that info!


also to go with that...


6Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting:
"Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
7Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear." (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)


Revelation 19:6-8


He may have had fine notions of religion and have read the bible in a year but He never thought once to do what He heard.

He never thought to give so much as a cup of water to one of "these little ones" because they were a disciple of Christ.

never thought to give to the needy for the sake of Christ

to weep with those who weep

to pray and fast in secret for a reward from our Heavenly Father

to clothe the naked

to seek first the kingdom of heaven

to bless them that cursed him

to submit to another out of reverence to Christ
....


God searches hearts and knows our motives... we can do a thing for selfish gain or to seek honor from men... and they would not be considered "righteouss acts"... The prostitute Rahab hid soliders because She beleived God... she beleived that truly God's people were going to conquer the land... so she acted accordingly- she made friends for herself by opening her house and hiding the people of God, so she would have "heavenly dwellings" to go to. (joshua 2)


"And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward." matt. 10:42



Jesus Christ -the author of life ...He gently restores us and leads us back home.. and we will dwell in the house of the Lord forever! :)


may we all put on the clothes He freely gives- even the Word of God ~Christ,

paul

loveprevails
January 13th, 2006, 11:50 AM
ain't our God awesome?



Haeschan,

here is a verse :)

"Then you will look and be radient, your heart will throb with joy;" in isaiah 60





"...Because of His great power and mighty strength not one of them is missing." in isaiah 40

joy4Him2day
January 13th, 2006, 11:56 AM
really, really thought provoking posts......
this poses some more questions.....as far as maybe what James was alluding to? vs, Paul's emphatic saved not by works?

****
LDinthewoods, you got a good question! I used to wonder too - but no more. It was the custom in those days to give the guests their wedding clothes - but this guy DID NOT PUT THEM ON.We are given garments too - robe of righteousness, the garment of praise, etc. We are asked to put them on by faith.

"putting on" is a well-used phrase in the Christian walk......an act of faith---

loveprevails
January 13th, 2006, 01:20 PM
we are not saved by works... we are saved by grace through faith... The powerful free grace of God which has appeared to all men but transforms believers lives from the inside out... Christ's grace which is made perfect in weakness and transforms the way we look at the world, the way we think, live, and act.

There is no difference between what james and paul wrote... on the surface it would seem so... but james was pointing this out- with true faith comes true deeds.

paul always said the same thing...

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


He also warned, as James and all the apostles did, about the empty faith of thought and human reason without loveing others in actions and truth... this love proceeds, springs, and comes from a pure heart created by God in Christ... which calls on the name of Jesus.

For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.

Ephesians 5:5-7



hope that clears any confusion-


may God's people be one,
paul

joy4Him2day
January 13th, 2006, 05:11 PM
Paul and James did agree, they were just speaking to different audiences so their emphasis/truth sounded different although they were the same.......

it just made me think of what James was alluding to....because I know that Martin Luther struggled with accepting James as a book in the Bible........
how one can have so much truth and still struggle with truth---- is real, isn't it?

haeschen
January 13th, 2006, 07:48 PM
I also see that works means acting on what you believe. Jesus always seemed to require something that would prove that they had faith. Like "go wash your eyes in the pool of Siloam" or "go show yourselves to the priests" or "Break the bread and hand it to the poeople". Doubt would have stopped them from doing it. It was in the going and doing that the miracles manifested.

LDinthewoods
January 13th, 2006, 08:16 PM
LDinthewoods, you got a good question! I used to wonder too - but no more. It was the custom in those days to give the guests their wedding clothes - but this guy DID NOT PUT THEM ON.
We are given garments too - robe of righteousness, the garment of praise, etc. We are asked to put them on by faith. Thank you! That definitely makes the verse make more sense to me.

joy4Him2day
January 13th, 2006, 08:19 PM
I also see that works means acting on what you believe. Jesus always seemed to require something that would prove that they had faith. Like "go wash your eyes in the pool of Siloam" or "go show yourselves to the priests" or "Break the bread and hand it to the poeople". Doubt would have stopped them from doing it. It was in the going and doing that the miracles manifested.

yes, awesome points.........the proof of you....and Him........

LDinthewoods
January 13th, 2006, 08:24 PM
rev 3.
....I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. 3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. 4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life,but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. 6He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. I haven't finished reading the whole thread yet but there is a lot here & I want to make sure I understand......

People are always saying that once we are saved, we cannot lose our salvation. From the passage above, I take it He is speaking to all once saved people, yes? So, everyone's name here is in the book of life.

Yet, those who do not "wake up" or those who have "soiled their clothes" will have their name "blotted out of the book of life"....which means they would lose their salvation, right?


What exactly does it mean to soil your clothes? Does that mean those who have accepted the wedding garment but then returned to unrepented sin?

Who are the "people in Sardis"?

LDinthewoods
January 13th, 2006, 08:38 PM
we are not saved by works... we are saved by grace through faith... The powerful free grace of God which has appeared to all men but transforms believers lives from the inside out... Christ's grace which is made perfect in weakness and transforms the way we look at the world, the way we think, live, and act. So we are saved by grace....I understand that. And if someone get's saved and then dies shortly after that, they will go to Heaven.

2Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God.

But if someone is saved and then lives a while after being saved....they have other deeds that must be complete in order for Jesus to present us to GOD and to not blot out our names?

holyspiritvesse
January 13th, 2006, 09:48 PM
No. Jesus will never blot out their names.

We are only presentable to God because we are wearing the wedding clothes given to us by CHrist for receiving Him as Lord and Savior.

LDinthewoods
January 13th, 2006, 10:01 PM
No. Jesus will never blot out their names.

We are only presentable to God because we are wearing the wedding clothes given to us by CHrist for receiving Him as Lord and Savior. But look at post #16.....whose names do get blotted out?

holyspiritvesse
January 13th, 2006, 10:09 PM
c. The overcomers are assured of their heavenly citizenship; in the ancient world, death or criminal conviction could blot out the name of an ancient citizen from the city's book of the living, the city register

i. Because Jesus makes reference to names being blotted out, some think all human names are initially in the Book of Life, and individuals are blotted out as they personally reject Jesus
ii. But we should not think that names are being constantly erased and then re-written; the focus here is on assurance, not a fear of a Jesus who sits in heaven with an active eraser


d. Jesus promises the overcomer that He will confess his name before My Father; I am not ashamed to confess Christ, but I am amazed that He is not ashamed to confess me!

i. Our acceptance of Jesus is important; His acceptance of us is far more important

ConservPride
January 14th, 2006, 03:21 PM
I haven't finished reading the whole thread yet but there is a lot here & I want to make sure I understand......

People are always saying that once we are saved, we cannot lose our salvation. From the passage above, I take it He is speaking to all once saved people, yes? So, everyone's name here is in the book of life.

Yet, those who do not "wake up" or those who have "soiled their clothes" will have their name "blotted out of the book of life"....which means they would lose their salvation, right?


What exactly does it mean to soil your clothes? Does that mean those who have accepted the wedding garment but then returned to unrepented sin?

Who are the "people in Sardis"?

2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.


2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling [words] of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through much] wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.


2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.


2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.


2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.