christian doesn't believe in christmas

[M_Gal]

I belong to a Mom's Group in my community were we have mom's night outs
and playdates for our children. Someone in the Group was outraged and talking how this year it's all 'Happy Holidays' and you can't say merry christmas anymore. She plans saying Merry christmas, regardless.
Well, what's crazy another lady in our Group who is a baptist lady that wears all dresses, has very long hair, never cuts it tells us she doesn't believe in
chrismas at all, she's tired of the christmas music in stores and glad for the Happy Holidays. She says they celebrate Halloween though. She told the whole Group many Christians dont celebrate Christmas. I couldn't believe it. :freaked I wasn't debating with her, but corrected her that christians I know around here DO celebrate christmas that Jesus is the reason.
Many churches have a church choir that sing christmas songs and I've known many that will hold christmas programs and specials. She's ignoring me now, but that's OK. I have Never known any Baptist worshipping like that.

Has anyone else?

[BHiles]

Sounds like perhaps primitive baptists or some strange maybe even cultic leaning indpendants. Definately not mainstream independant.

[savedandhappy1]

Sounds like perhaps primitive baptists or some strange maybe even cultic leaning indpendants. Definately not mainstream independant.

You beat me to it. So will just say yeah what BHiles said. :lol

[Shieldbearer]

Sounds like perhaps primitive baptists or some strange maybe even cultic leaning indpendants. Definately not mainstream independant.

I go to a Calvary Chapel. Before that I was in a Purpose Driven Baptist church, and as a child attended a Southern Baptist church.

As of this year, I no longer observe Christmas.

By the way, my parents are Primitive Baptists and do observe Christmas.

Why does one have to be strange or cultic to not celebrate Christmas?

[blitzkreig]

I go to a Calvary Chapel. Before that I was in a Purpose Driven Baptist church, and as a child attended a Southern Baptist church.

As of this year, I no longer observe Christmas.

By the way, my parents are Primitive Baptists and do observe Christmas.

Why does one have to be strange or cultic to not celebrate Christmas?

Because until recently the JW folks and a few other marginal folks had a corner on not celebrating holidays. Christmas, birthdays and any other cause for celebration are not recognized. They go so far as to pull their children out of school around this time of year so as to not be exposed to awful Christmas things.

So to answer you question "Why does one have to be strange or cultic to not celebrate Christmas?" ... no offence ... but if one walks like a duck and sounds like a duck ... they are sometimes mistaken as a duck.

:bathbaby

[Knight of Faith]

As of this year, I no longer observe Christmas.

Why does one have to be strange or cultic to not celebrate Christmas?
I suppose that depends on why they don't.
Why will you "no longer observe Christmas"?

[JoelH]

In fact, not even Presbyterians in the whole of Scotland observe Christmas. There was no popular Christmas observance in Scotland until the 1960s due to the influence of the Church of Scotland.

YBIC,

Joel

[Christianmomof3]

I do not observe Chistmas, but neither do I celebrate Halloween. To do Halloween and not Christmas seems a bit unusual to me.
I do not celebrate Christmas because it is not Biblical.
It is a man made holiday - made by Constantine, based on Pagan practices.
Here are some quotes about the holiday from another message board that explains some things well


Admin Edit: * No Re-posting From Other Boards Or Blogs - What goes on with other message boards is none of our concern. Do not post conversations from other message boards. Blogs, because they are uncensored and we don%%u2019t have the resources to verify the content of each one, are not to be posted. [more...] From: The Rulz (http://www.rr-bb.com/rules.php)


The Christmas Holiday is a mixture of paganism and Christianity and God does not like mixture. I am not saying that He does not enjoy that some people are remembering and celebrating Him on Christmas, but to do so with pagan practices is not the best way. And yes, I have heard the argument that the days of the week have pagan names and wedding rings are pagan and such and that is not the point. It would be too legalistic not to celebrate Christmas simply because of the pagan origins. I do not celebrate it because nowhere in the Bible am I told to do so and I see no reason to do it.
I love the Lord Jesus Christ with all of my heart and I celebrate His birth, sinless human living, death and resurrection every day. I personally was born and raised Jewish and have no family tradition or background of celebrating Christmas. I recently told a woman who I met who is Jewish that although I am now a Christian I don't celebrate Christmas. She did not ask why. She answered "why should you? It is a pagan holiday anyway." I imagine in the USA, more people celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday, than those who are actually celebrating Christ's birth which was not on Dec. 25 anyway.
I am not judging those who do celebrate Christmas, just explaining why I don't.

[frisian1970]

I have played with the idea of my family celebrating a remembrance of Christ's birth and the whole Santa thing separately, rather than claiming that giving one another material gifts is analogous to God sending the divine 'charisma'. (Greek for gift).

I am strange, and non-traditional and feel quite comfortable about it. :noidea Others will do as they feel led.

[The Sower]

I do enjoy the Holidays with my family,but i dont celebrate Santa or anything make believe. I think the Christmas season is a time to enjoy our familes and friends. I think too, that the decorating for the season can get out of hand~ and the Christmas buying and spending put alot of people in debt this time of year as well..I bet these people that dont celebrate Chrsitmas by not gift buying are, far better off, at the first of the year than some that over spend during the holidays.;): .Like all things it should be balanced.

[Sophie]

Christianmomof3 I completly agree with you. I just got done posting on the
9 Things I Hate About Christmas Thread under anything goes.

Blessings to ALL!

[BHiles]

Birthdays celebrations are not in the bible either but that does not negate believers celebrating a man made tradition.

The Celebration of Christ Birth in General was practiced by those who came to worship Him. That celebration was hardly man made. Gabriel told them to go. So If we pick out a day to celebrate His birth and keep our focus on Him I find that it can be very Christ honoring and in the tradition of those who first did. Sure their are added on traditions that many brought from there own traditions but that does not mean we throw the holiday out all together. We do not throw out the celebration of the Ressurection becuase some churches preach false doctrine. Yet every Sunday many believers celebrate the resurrection on the first day of the week regardless of what others do on that day.

BTW how many times do we need to be reminded that 12/25 is not the real date of His birth. I think everybody got that memo so stop sending it. I found this out when I was 4 right after figuring out the Santa thing so please quit insulting our intelligence with this. Its like post after post stating santa isn't real, santa isn't real, santa isn't real:doh Jesus birth wasn't Dec 25th, Jesus birth wasn't Dec 25th, Jesus Birth wasn't Dec 25th. Talk about a dead horse:deadhorse

[frisian1970]

BTW how many times do we need to be reminded that 12/25 is not the real date of His birth. I think everybody got that memo so stop sending it.:spit

[milkncookiesmom]

BTW how many times do we need to be reminded that 12/25 is not the real date of His birth. I think everybody got that memo so stop sending it. I found this out when I was 4 right after figuring out the Santa thing so please quit insulting our intelligence with this. ....

Okay, maybe I'm less intelligent than the rest, but I honestly didn't know that Jesus was not born on Dec. 25 until just a few years ago when someone posted about it here on Rapture Ready. In fact, I didn't question anything in relation to the modern Christmas celebrations until then. When I read about it, I felt like the biggest dufus, but I also wondered why I was "the last" to know. I'm 40 now, but growing up, my church never taught otherwise. Many Christian Hymns speak of Christ's birth...."born on Christmas day" and "cold winter's night" etc.

It may be a reminder for you, but I am certain that there are those reading this for the very first time as well. I just felt the need to share that. I know this topic becomes controversial, but I get frustrated that this topic is often kept behind closed doors.

For the record, we have abandoned the traditional celebration of Christmas now in our house as well. I haven't figured out if we are just weak in our faith, but we are having a difficult time getting past the pagan influences. I have been secretly hoping someone can help us to get past our concerns, but too often I read a thread and only find sarcasm which doesn't do anything to draw me back into joining up with the ranks of those who do keep Christmas. I wish we could in good conscience, but can't. The liberty of those who do, has become a stumbling block of sorts for us in our family and we are struggling.

Take that as a confession from me to any reader and consider praying for us. We have 3 young children and we find that the pagan, occultic and new age influences they face are very prevelant. We pray that God gives them discernment and we also try to teach discernment by saturating them with the Bible. We are just finding it very difficult to give the pagan influences in Christmas a pass when we want them to root out any other pagan influences in their daily lives.

[LDinthewoods]

BTW how many times do we need to be reminded that 12/25 is not the real date of His birth. I think everybody got that memo so stop sending it. I found this out when I was 4 right after figuring out the Santa thing so please quit insulting our intelligence with this. Its like post after post stating santa isn't real, santa isn't real, santa isn't real:doh Jesus birth wasn't Dec 25th, Jesus birth wasn't Dec 25th, Jesus Birth wasn't Dec 25th. Talk about a dead horse:deadhorse I didn't know until this past year....after I became a member of this board. Otherwise, I would not have know.

There are many new Christians coming here all the time. Just because you learned something as a child doesn't mean the rest of us don't need any more lessons or an opportunity to discuss them.

[HeIsEnough]

Has anyone else?

Around here..."If it ain't specifically in the b i b l e, then it ain't fer me" is a common mindset. This would necessitate becoming as close to Judaism as one can get, without actually becoming one, even though it may be a good thing anyway, cuz it will 'clean up' all those pagan practices you and I have been doing all these years, and you will suddenly feel the need to let your opinion be known, waylay any passer by with that message of 'repent from your pagan religious festivals, you pagan practicing sinners'...or something like that. That was the worlds second longest sentence. Suddenly, you will feel quite 'holier than thou' after said conversion, cuz you now have pure religion, cuz you no longer follow any of these pagan rooted festivals, new moon or otherwise. Back to the regularly scheduled debate on the 'true' meaning of 'Rudolph the drunk 'red nosed' reindeer....

[Shieldbearer]

Around here..."If it ain't specifically in the b i b l e, then it ain't fer me" is a common mindset. This would necessitate becoming as close to Judaism as one can get, without actually becoming one, even though it may be a good thing anyway, cuz it will 'clean up' all those pagan practices you and I have been doing all these years, and you will suddenly feel the need to let your opinion be known, waylay any passer by with that message of 'repent from your pagan religious festivals, you pagan practicing sinners'...or something like that. That was the worlds second longest sentence. Suddenly, you will feel quite 'holier than thou' after said conversion, cuz you now have pure religion, cuz you no longer follow any of these pagan rooted festivals, new moon or otherwise. Back to the regularly scheduled debate on the 'true' meaning of 'Rudolph the drunk 'red nosed' reindeer....

Okay, I find this offensive. First of all, anyone who questions or who doesn't observe Christmas is "strange or even cultic". Then, anyone who doesn't observe Christmas is "holier than thou". Does that mean that John Knox and C H Spurgeon were cultic or looked upon themselves as holier than anyone else, because they didn't celebrate Christmas, and even spoke out against it?

Many people quote Romans 14, and by that say that they have the liberty to celebrate Christmas. I am not going to debate that. I am, however, going to suggest that the same passage gives me the right NOT to celebrate Christmas without being told I am being strange, or cultic, or acting "holier" than anyone else.

The reasons why I and my family have decided to stop celebrating Christmas are personal, between us and God. My extended family still observes Christmas, as does my church. I don't stand around telling them how wrong they are or right I am. I don't even know that they are wrong and I am right. I just know where God has led me and my family.

The OP expressed stunned disbelief that a Christian would not celebrate Christmas. Well, until the fourth century, Christians didn't celebrate it. Only in the last 150 years or so has Christmas become widespread among non-Catholics in this country. In fact, for much of our nation's history, Christmas was outlawed. I am not saying this is right or wrong, just pointing out that being a Christian has not always meant celebrating Christmas, just as it does not always mean so now.

As with any thing we do, spend time in prayer with God. Be a Berean and examine what you do in light of the Word. And if God doesn't tell you it is wrong to do so, celebrate Christmas. Just don't presume to label me as being in a cult or being self-righteous if I don't observe it.

[chipminto]

Okay, maybe I'm less intelligent than the rest, but I honestly didn't know that Jesus was not born on Dec. 25 until just a few years ago when someone posted about it here on Rapture Ready. In fact, I didn't question anything in relation to the modern Christmas celebrations until then. When I read about it, I felt like the biggest dufus, but I also wondered why I was "the last" to know. I'm 40 now, but growing up, my church never taught otherwise. Many Christian Hymns speak of Christ's birth...."born on Christmas day" and "cold winter's night" etc.

It may be a reminder for you, but I am certain that there are those reading this for the very first time as well. I just felt the need to share that. I know this topic becomes controversial, but I get frustrated that this topic is often kept behind closed doors.

For the record, we have abandoned the traditional celebration of Christmas now in our house as well. I haven't figured out if we are just weak in our faith, but we are having a difficult time getting past the pagan influences. I have been secretly hoping someone can help us to get past our concerns, but too often I read a thread and only find sarcasm which doesn't do anything to draw me back into joining up with the ranks of those who do keep Christmas. I wish we could in good conscience, but can't. The liberty of those who do, has become a stumbling block of sorts for us in our family and we are struggling.

Take that as a confession from me to any reader and consider praying for us. We have 3 young children and we find that the pagan, occultic and new age influences they face are very prevelant. We pray that God gives them discernment and we also try to teach discernment by saturating them with the Bible. We are just finding it very difficult to give the pagan influences in Christmas a pass when we want them to root out any other pagan influences in their daily lives.


Why? Ask yourself that question...why are you abandoning the celebration of Christmas....if it is truly of God then OK, that is what the Lord wills in your life...but if it is not, then examine why. I am not here to tell you to celebrate Christmas or not....do what you want...Paul said that "all things are lawful to me, but not all are expediant" are you damaging your testimony by celebrating or not celebrating Christmas? Will you cause more damage to your kids or less? Do you want to create memories of Christmas or do you want to create other types of memories.... Jesus did celebrate Huanakah (spelling) which occurs right around the CHristmas season....don't feel guilty one way or the other...this is not an issue about being a "better" Christian then others, it is a personal and family choice...
My family chooses to celebrate Christmas, the PAGAN Tree and all....in fact as I walked down my stairs this morning and turned on the tree lights, I thanked the Lord for the beautiful tree...I just think they look pretty...I hung lights outside the house this week, and thanked the Lord that I had a house I could hang lights outside, and told Him how pretty I thought it looked with His snow falling down and the evergreen bushes with the lights on them....
That is all for now..

[HeIsEnough]

Okay, I find this offensive.

Sorry.


The OP

Oh ya, that was who I was speaking to.

[Changes]

Oh Goody!

The Annual Christmas :deadhorse thread Part 687,458.

Please carry on carefully being fully aware of your words.

Grace - use it but don't abuse it.

[AnyDayNow]

Okay, maybe I'm less intelligent than the rest, but I honestly didn't know that Jesus was not born on Dec. 25 until just a few years ago...

Does it really matter? Technically, we should celebrate His Birthday, Death and Resurrection every day (everyday should be Christmas, Good Friday, Easter). So, if anybody wants to "move" Jesus' Birthday to another day, that's fine with me. But because most of Christendom, the US government and milllions of people all around the world celebrate December 25th as a holiday for one reason or another, I see no harm in going along with them too.

While I am not sure His Birthday was on December 25th (like others) I often wonder if when we finally see Jesus Face to face that He will tell us, "Well, it was passed off as a pagan holiday by some, ignored by others, and I wasn't even born that day, but....Thanks for remembering Me just the same". :):

[4everHis]

One of the responses on this thread reminded me of the reason why I will continue to celbrate Christmas.
It's the Christmas Story as told in the bible.
They came to see the child born unto them and brought with them "gifts."

If then, we give gifts and give in the spirit of celebrating the true gift of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ then that spirit is a warm burning in my soul and causes me to have great joy.

It's not a pagan thing or a worldly thing. It's a celebration of the birth of our saviour and gift giving is a tradition started in bible.

To each his own.
I tend to see the side of those that choose not to celebrate. If it were not for family and friends, I would perhaps not celebrate as well.

[HeIsEnough]

:deadhorse

Hey!

Was I reported? Ya know, I don't really try to be reported, but it must just come natural for me. I'll try real hard to not be reported in the future. Course not posting would help, so maybe I'll go that route.

[Caretaker]

God bless you;

Romans 14:
1: Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2: For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3: Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4: Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6: He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7: For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8: For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9: For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10: But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11: For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12: So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13: Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14: I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15: But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16: Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18: For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19: Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20: For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21: It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22: Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23: And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


For this old greybeard it is difficult to divest ones-self of 5 decades of Christ's Mass tradition. The Lord is leading me gently into focussing on what is Biblical and to refrain from that which is not.

I do not force my perceptions on my family. We will probably put up the same lovely artifical fir tree we have used for the last quarter century. There will be Christ's Mass presents under the twinkling glow of the tree lights and ornaments. The nativity scene will take prominance in the center of our dining room table.

We will probably join our children and grandbabies at the candlelight service on Christ's Mass eve.

For myself alone the Lord is leading me to recognize that the majority of the Christ's Mass celebrations, including the date are from the Roman Catholic and pagan traditions.

The coming of and Incarnation of God as a wee-babe in that feeidng shelf over 2000 years ago is the greatest Gift of God, and His ministry and His glorious Redemption of Calvary the only hope for all humanity. We can truly honor it in our hearts and in our lives, and in our praises and reverence.

For myself alone the Lord is leading me into an awareness that in the righteous reign of the Root of Jessie, Christ's Mass will not be celebrated, but instead a Feast will be observed when shepherds would have been camped out under a midnight sky, not the rainy/snowy season of Israel's December, and that during the celebration when the Inn would have been filled.

Zech. 14:
16: And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Unlike Scrooge after his night of epiphany, who from thence-forward kept Christmas in his heart, I find myself no longer keeping Christ's Mass in my heart. My heart is focussed more and more on Christ Jesus our Lord and His eternal Word and truth.

Praise the Lord for my precious Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus. The primary time when the Coming of Christ is celebrated, advertised, and the doors of celebration opened and available to the lost is at Christmas. This season and Easter are the times when so many of the lost hear of Christ, which is the imperative. I do not judge each precious one who desires to celebrate the Coming of Christ at Christmas.

It is just for this old man he finds himself led to a commemoration of the day when God Himself once Tabernachled with lost humanity.

[frisian1970]

Hey!

Was I reported? Ya know, I don't really try to be reported, but it must just come natural for me. I'll try real hard to not be reported in the future. Course not posting would help, so maybe I'll go that route.
:fish

[LDinthewoods]

God bless you;

Romans 14:
1: Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2: For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3: Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4: Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6: He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7: For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8: For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9: For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10: But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11: For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12: So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13: Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14: I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15: But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16: Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18: For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19: Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20: For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21: It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22: Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23: And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


For this old greybeard it is difficult to divest ones-self of 5 decades of Christ's Mass tradition. The Lord is leading me gently into focussing on what is Biblical and to refrain from that which is not.

Thank you. We needed the scripture about now!

For me, it is hard to describe why I want to leave Christmas as we know it behind. I don't have the fond traditions or memories like you. Which makes any attempt at the standard Christmas celebration kind of sad & depressing. I don't not participate at all, but I try to focus completely on Jesus....especially during this time of year. I do look for ways to help others & I often volunteer; and I do go to services, but that is how I try to change what Christmas means to me. Trying to make Christmas be about family or trying to have a celebration outside of church & the volunteering events always insures disappointment for me....which is why I believe the LORD is convicting me of it.

[ipjones6000]

My opinion of this thread in graphics:

:santa :boxing :deadhorse :argue :drama :tape :lock :closed

You don't want to celebrate Christmas, fine. That's up to you. Most of us just find it strange, since the vast majority of our religion and culture do so.

Perhaps you can tell us what your own personal reasons for it are. Do you just treat it like any other day, or do you actually celebrate the birth of our Lord? And do you celebrate Easter, or do anything else on Easter, because that probably wasn't the day either.

If you are protesting the whole non-Jesus aspect, okay, but if you are opposed to it because Christmas isn't the day Jesus was born on, refer to my Easter question. We do a lot of stuff that isn't the day it happened on. Take Independence Day for example; the Declaration of Independence was signed on July 2, not the 4th.

[frisian1970]

I think we should celebrate the 4th of July, on August 8 myself.

:noidea

[Caretaker]

Quote:
You don't want to celebrate Christmas, fine. That's up to you. Most of us just find it strange, since the vast majority of our religion and culture do so.

Perhaps you can tell us what your own personal reasons for it are. Do you just treat it like any other day, or do you actually celebrate the birth of our Lord? And do you celebrate Easter, or do anything else on Easter, because that probably wasn't the day either.

If you are protesting the whole non-Jesus aspect, okay, but if you are opposed to it because Christmas isn't the day Jesus was born on, refer to my Easter question. We do a lot of stuff that isn't the day it happened on. Take Independence Day for example; the Declaration of Independence was signed on July 2, not the 4th.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++







God bless you;


For this old greybeard it is difficult to divest ones-self of 5 decades of Christ's Mass tradition. The Lord is leading me gently into focussing on what is Biblical and to refrain from that which is not.

I do not force my perceptions on my family. We will probably put up the same lovely artifical fir tree we have used for the last quarter century. There will be Christ's Mass presents under the twinkling glow of the tree lights and ornaments. The nativity scene will take prominance in the center of our dining room table.

We will probably join our children and grandbabies at the candlelight service on Christ's Mass eve.

For myself alone the Lord is leading me to recognize that the majority of the Christ's Mass celebrations, including the date are from the Roman Catholic and pagan traditions.

The coming of and Incarnation of God as a wee-babe on that feedng shelf over 2000 years ago is the greatest Gift of God, and His ministry and His glorious Redemption of Calvary the only hope for all humanity. We can truly honor it in our hearts and in our lives, and in our praises and reverence.

For myself alone the Lord is leading me into an awareness that in the righteous reign of the Root of Jessie, Christ's Mass will not be celebrated, but instead a Feast will be observed when shepherds would have been camped out under a midnight sky, not the rainy/snowy season of Israel's December, and that during the celebration when the Inn would have been filled.

Zech. 14:
16: And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Unlike Scrooge after his night of epiphany, who from thence-forward kept Christmas in his heart, I find myself no longer keeping Christ's Mass in my heart. My heart is focussed more and more on Christ Jesus our Lord and His eternal Word and truth.

Praise the Lord for my precious Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus. The primary time when the Coming of Christ is celebrated, advertised, and the doors of celebration opened and available to the lost is at Christmas. This season and Easter are the times when so many of the lost hear of Christ, which is the imperative. I do not judge each precious one who desires to celebrate the Coming of Christ at Christmas.

It is just for this old man he finds himself led to a commemoration of the day when God Himself once Tabernachled with lost humanity.

[antsinmypants]

BTW how many times do we need to be reminded that 12/25 is not the real date of His birth. I think everybody got that memo so stop sending it. I found this out when I was 4 right after figuring out the Santa thing so please quit insulting our intelligence with this. Its like post after post stating santa isn't real, santa isn't real, santa isn't real:doh Jesus birth wasn't Dec 25th, Jesus birth wasn't Dec 25th, Jesus Birth wasn't Dec 25th. Talk about a dead horse:deadhorse

Many folks on RR know that, but in all honesty Brent, you'd be suprised how many believers actually think that was His birthday!

It was a whole different month!

[blitzkreig]

I do not celebrate Christmas because it is not Biblical.
It is a man made holiday - made by Constantine, based on Pagan practices.Do you celebrate July 4th? :B:

[frisian1970]

Many folks on RR know that, but in all honesty Brent, you'd be suprised how many believers actually think that was His birthday!

It was a whole different month!I still found Brent's comment funny, but until I started "here" I didn't know such.

[frisian1970]

Do you celebrate July 4th? :B:
Only during asteroid showers in August.

[blitzkreig]

I think we should celebrate the 4th of July, on August 8 myself.

:noideaWe in Canada celebrate King Edward VII bithday on May 24th when he was truly born on November 9th. Queen Victoria's birthday was celebrated on May 24th ... but she was actually born on May 24th ... :B:

For what it's worth King Edward VIII was born on June 23rd and celebrated on June 23rd.


But King George VI was just odd. He was born on December 14 but his birthday was celebrated as follows:

Wednesday June 9, 1937
Thursday June 9, 1938
Saturday May 20, 1939 (Royal Visit)
Thursday June 13, 1940
Monday June 9, 1941
Monday June 8, 1942
Wednesday June 2, 1943
Thursday June 8, 1944
Thursday June 14, 1945
Monday June 10, 1946
Tuesday June 10, 1947
Monday June 7, 1948
Monday June 6, 1949
Monday June 5, 1950
Monday June 4, 1951

Our reigning Queen ... Queen Elizabeth II was born on April 21, 1952. For some odd reason that same year when she was not even one year old we celebrated her birth on June 9.

However since 1953, we have celebrated Queen Elizabeth II on "Victoria Day" which again is May 24th.

See ... Blame Canada ... :canada





:B:

[Christianmomof3]

Do you celebrate July 4th? :B:
Yes I do, and again, it would be silly not to celebrate all man made holidays. The problem with Christmas is that it is a man-made holiday using pagan practices used to worship Christ. The 4th of July is not used to worship Christ.
To me it is like the 2 guys in the Old Testament who got burned up for offering strange fire to the Lord.
LEV 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took each of them his censer, and put fire therein, and laid incense thereon, and offered strange fire before Jehovah, which he had not commanded them.

LEV 10:2 And there came forth fire from before Jehovah, and devoured them, and they died before Jehovah.

There are quite a few Christians who love the Lord and choose not to celebrate Christmas for the reasons that I and others have listed in this thread. I do not condem those who choose to celebrate Christmas, but am respectfully giving the reasons why I do not. I have seen disrespect from those who are defending Christmas here. Should we not, as Christians be kind to one another? (Romans 12:10, Eph 4:32)

[blitzkreig]

There are quite a few Christians who love the Lord and choose not to celebrate Christmas for the reasons that I and others have listed in this thread. I do not condem those who choose to celebrate Christmas, but am respectfully giving the reasons why I do not. I have seen disrespect from those who are defending Christmas here. Should we not, as Christians be kind to one another? (Romans 12:10, Eph 4:32)Reasonable rationale. If follows the same logical argumentation Paul uses when discussing the eating of meat offered to idols.

1Co 8:1-13
(1) Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
(2) And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
(3) But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
(4) As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
(5) For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
(6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(7) Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
(8) But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
(9) But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
(10) For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
(11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
(12) But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
(13) Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.I promise if you ever come over to my house I won't mention Christmas ... :B:

However applying a rigour to religious practise which is not prescribed in the actual practise of that religion is called "superstition".

Here from Websters dictionary:

Superstition
SUPERSTI'TION, n. [L. superstitio, supersto; super and sto, to stand.]

Excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites not commanded, or of points of minor importance; excess or extravagance in religion; the doing of things not required by God, or abstaining from things not forbidden; or the belief of what is absurd, or belief without evidence.

[LDinthewoods]

Do you celebrate July 4th?

Okay, not one person has sited the erroneous date as being the one & only reason they have decided to not celebrate Christmas. Christianmom was the first to bring it up & if you go back & read her post, she merely mentioned it as a side note after giving a detailed explaination for her main reasons.

Why is everyone trying to latch on to the issue of the wrong date & challenge the non-celebrators about that only? Is that the all you got?

[blitzkreig]

Okay, not one person has sited the erroneous date as being the one & only reason they have decided to not celebrate Christmas. Christianmom was the first to bring it up & if you go back & read her post, she merely mentioned it as a side note after giving a detailed explaination for her main reasons.

Why is everyone trying to latch on to the issue of the wrong date & challenge the non-celebrators about that only? Is that the all you got?I never mentioned it being on the wrong date in that post. That post was meant to question the argument that Christmas was a "man made" tradition. So is July 4th. So common sense would suggest that you need to avoid both if you are avoiding one of them ... as both are "man made".

[Christianmomof3]

Reasonable rationale. If follows the same logical argumentation Paul uses when discussing the eating of meat offered to idols.

I promise if you ever come over to my house I won't mention Christmas ... :B:

However applying a rigour to religious practise which is not prescribed in the actual practise of that religion is called "superstition".

Here from Websters dictionary:

Superstition
SUPERSTI'TION, n. [L. superstitio, supersto; super and sto, to stand.]

Excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites not commanded, or of points of minor importance; excess or extravagance in religion; the doing of things not required by God, or abstaining from things not forbidden; or the belief of what is absurd, or belief without evidence.

So, while I am not condeming those who chose to celebrate Christmas, you are calling those of us who do not superstitious.

[LDinthewoods]

Superstition
SUPERSTI'TION, n. [L. superstitio, supersto; super and sto, to stand.]

Excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites not commanded, or of points of minor importance; excess or extravagance in religion; the doing of things not required by God, or abstaining from things not forbidden; or the belief of what is absurd, or belief without evidence.Also, no one is being superstitious.....you are the one that thinks the non-celebrators are following "excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practices". Just because it appears to you to be excessive to not celebrate doesn't make it so. IMO, it is excessive TO practice it...so the argument could go either way. I'm not lobbying for others to not celebrate; no one else on the abstaining side seems to be either.

[HeIsEnough]

I do not condem those who choose to celebrate Christmas, but am respectfully giving the reasons why I do not. I have seen disrespect from those who are defending Christmas here. Should we not, as Christians be kind to one another? (Romans 12:10, Eph 4:32)

I will pay it forward with an apology for offending you, if you feel it is required.

I assume this points to me, because I am the main offender in this thread. I really do not 'celebrate' christmas. I will defend anyones right to do it though. 'Defend' is too strong of a term, because this EXACT subject is dispensed by Paul in regard to not letting any man judge them for this activity.


Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.


What I am surprised about, is how other christians know full well what the new covenant belief is about this, and go ahead and start 'poking around' the edges anyway....and then claim 'I am not condemning'. I am hard pressed to believe one bemoaning on and on about the 'paganess' of christmas, seriously thinks the other believer does not view it as condemning their activity. Maybe you can explain to me why I should believe you are not condemning?

[blitzkreig]

So, while I am not condeming those who chose to celebrate Christmas, you are calling those of us who do not superstitious.I'm not calling anyone superstitious.

That is the English language term which describes such a practise.

I likely have my own superstitions to work on. One of them isn't a Christmas superstition however ...

[blitzkreig]

Also, no one is being superstitious.....you are the one that thinks the non-celebrators are following "excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practices". Just because it appears to you to be excessive to not celebrate doesn't make it so. IMO, it is excessive TO practice it...so the argument could go either way. I'm not lobbying for others to not celebrate; no one else on the abstaining side seems to be either.Hey do as you wish. Such is our Christian Liberty.

But one should know how the practise of NOT observing Christmas is viewed by some others. Not that they are "right" ... but one wouldn't want to be in the dark about it ...

[MrJim]

I don't celebrate Christmas in the traditional way, with Santa and a decorated Christmas tree. For me, they don't have anything to do with the birth of our Savior. However, there are millions of Christians who do celebrate Christmas in this manner. Who am I to judge them?
It doesn't matter if December 25 used to be a pagan holiday, we don't celebrate that pagan day and participate in its festival.
We shouldn't judge anyone who chooses to remember and celebrate Jesus's birthday on December 25. It's what's in one's hearts that Jesus sees. I just can't see how our Lord would be offended by His sheep remembering His birth.
(Though I wish it could be done without all the commercialism associated with it, but that's just my opinion.)

[LDinthewoods]

Hey do as you wish. Such is our Christian Liberty.

But one should know how the practise of NOT observing Christmas is viewed by some others. Not that they are "right" ... but one wouldn't want to be in the dark about it ...
Anyone that chooses to not celebrate will not be shocked at how some others will view their choice...especially not here.

But if some Christians do view non-celebrators as superstitious or wrong, then they are wrong for having that view. So I don't understand why this should concern me.

Rom 14:3 Let not him who takes food have a low opinion of him who does not: and let not him who does not take food be a judge of him who does; for he has God's approval.

Rom 14:6 He who keeps the day, keeps it to the Lord; and he who takes food, takes it as to the Lord, for he gives praise to God; and he who does not take food, to the Lord he takes it not, and gives praise to God.

Rom 14:10 But you, why do you make yourself your brother's judge? or again, why have you no respect for your brother? because we will all have to take our place before God as our judge.

[blitzkreig]

Anyone that chooses to not celebrate will not be shocked at how some others will view their choice...especially not here.

But if some Christians do view non-celebrators as superstitious or wrong, then they are wrong for having that view. So I don't understand why this should concern me.

Rom 14:3 Let not him who takes food have a low opinion of him who does not: and let not him who does not take food be a judge of him who does; for he has God's approval.

Rom 14:6 He who keeps the day, keeps it to the Lord; and he who takes food, takes it as to the Lord, for he gives praise to God; and he who does not take food, to the Lord he takes it not, and gives praise to God.

Rom 14:10 But you, why do you make yourself your brother's judge? or again, why have you no respect for your brother? because we will all have to take our place before God as our judge.Exactly ...http://tinypic.com/iclcw1.gif


:B:

[frisian1970]

Anyone that chooses to not celebrate will not be shocked at how some others will view their choice...especially not here.

But if some Christians do view non-celebrators as superstitious or wrong, then they are wrong for having that view. So I don't understand why this should concern me.

Rom 14:3 Let not him who takes food have a low opinion of him who does not: and let not him who does not take food be a judge of him who does; for he has God's approval.

Rom 14:6 He who keeps the day, keeps it to the Lord; and he who takes food, takes it as to the Lord, for he gives praise to God; and he who does not take food, to the Lord he takes it not, and gives praise to God.

Rom 14:10 But you, why do you make yourself your brother's judge? or again, why have you no respect for your brother? because we will all have to take our place before God as our judge.:clap

[frisian1970]

I don't celebrate Christmas in the traditional way, with Santa and a decorated Christmas tree. For me, they don't have anything to do with the birth of our Savior. However, there are millions of Christians who do celebrate Christmas in this manner. Who am I to judge them?
It doesn't matter if December 25 used to be a pagan holiday, we don't celebrate that pagan day and participate in its festival.
We shouldn't judge anyone who chooses to remember and celebrate Jesus's birthday on December 25. It's what's in one's hearts that Jesus sees. I just can't see how our Lord would be offended by His sheep remembering His birth.
(Though I wish it could be done without all the commercialism associated with it, but that's just my opinion.)
:clap

*is going around clapping today*

[Christianmomof3]

I will pay it forward with an apology for offending you, if you feel it is required.

I assume this points to me, because I am the main offender in this thread. I really do not 'celebrate' christmas. I will defend anyones right to do it though. 'Defend' is too strong of a term, because this EXACT subject is dispensed by Paul in regard to not letting any man judge them for this activity.



What I am surprised about, is how other christians know full well what the new covenant belief is about this, and go ahead and start 'poking around' the edges anyway....and then claim 'I am not condemning'. I am hard pressed to believe one bemoaning on and on about the 'paganess' of christmas, seriously thinks the other believer does not view it as condemning their activity. Maybe you can explain to me why I should believe you are not condemning?

I am sorry that you see that as condemning. I beleive that the original question was about Christians not celebrating Christmas. Many Christians do not celebrate it because of the pagan origins,as well as the over commercialism and other reasons. Although you and many other Christians do know that the origins of Christmas are pagan, many Christians are unaware of that. Many Christians when they become aware of the pagan origins, go to the Lord and pray and ask the Lord if celebrating Christmas is the best way for them to honor Him. Some find that it is not. For those who don't have a problem with the pagan origins, that is ok. I am certainly aware that many many dear brothers and sisters who love the Lord with all their heart honor Him in their Christmas celebrations. That is wonderful and not to be condemned. However, I do believe that it is a decision that each of us should be able to make with the Lord's leading.

[chipminto]

So, I am just wondering then, is Santa out? And the elves and such....I need to know.

[frisian1970]

So, I am just wondering then, is Santa out? And the elves and such....I need to know.
Apparently it's too late. :sad
http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=233462
































...you are from Philly? Isn't that where they booed Santa?

:tsk

[ipjones6000]

Let's cut to the heart of the issue. Most of us think it's wierd for a non-cultist Christian to not celebrate Christmas like the rest of America does.

If presents and the Christmas tree makes you stumble, then by all means light them on fire and call the fire department.

Let's look at the reasons presented:
1, Jesus wasn't born in December. Early Church dudes adapted a pagan holiday to make Jesus more popular.
2, The material stuff detracts from God.

Point 1
Not celebrating Christ's birth on Christmas simply because it probably happened in Spring is not a very good reason because who can present the accurate date? Should we move Christmas to March or April? Take an extra two weeks around Easter? Perhaps Regular Easter and Eastern Orthodox Easter could be the beginnings and ends of the break.

If we don't know the correct date, what does it matter when we celebrate it? A lot of things aren't celebrated on their proper day (Memorial Day, for example). Without the right date, the time of the celebration is meaningless.

Point 2
Why aren't people up in arms about Santa Claus? A certain television show character once said "Let's not forget the real reason of Christmas; the birth of Santa Claus." So let's throw the all-seeing, all-knowing Santa out the window, because he never got you that pony you asked for, nor that rocketship. On the other hand, Jesus is handing out immortality for free. We all want that, and he only gives it to people who've admitted they've been bad!

So let's torch that plastic Santa and start thanking Jesus for his ultimate gift, and Mom and Dad for that neat Hot Wheels race car loop.

1 Corithians 8:1-13

If Santa is more important than Jesus, get rid of him. Sure, Jesus doesn't show up at your house Christmas Eve when you are 5 and deliver presents, but when you are 30, you should be thinking more about how Jesus gave you the ultimate gift of eternal life hundreds of years ago.

Christmas is fun. I love the Christmas tree, decorating the house, and giving/getting presents. But I never forget that Jesus did die for my sins on the cross, and that beats a Best Buy full of electronics any day. I used to like Santa Claus, but I grew up. I don't worship the Fat Man in red and never did.

Where the problem lies is people thinking (wrongly) that Christmas Day is evil. It is not idol worship and a lot of stuff is on the wrong day. But if the Lord is saying to you "Christmas trees and Santa Claus ain't for you; the Book of Luke is okay," listen to the Lord. No one is evil for celebrating Christmas or not celebrating Christmas. The problem is when you do either one for the wrong motives. Santa Claus is not Jesus, so we ought not be acting like he is.

Let's give Jesus a day out of year to celebrate whatever day it was our savior was born.

[frisian1970]

Let's cut to the heart of the issue. Most of us think it's wierd for a non-cultist Christian to not celebrate Christmas like the rest of America does.

If presents and the Christmas tree makes you stumble, then by all means light them on fire and call the fire department.

Let's look at the reasons presented:
1, Jesus wasn't born in December. Early Church dudes adapted a pagan holiday to make Jesus more popular.
2, The material stuff detracts from God.

Point 1
Not celebrating Christ's birth on Christmas simply because it probably happened in Spring is not a very good reason because who can present the accurate date? Should we move Christmas to March or April? Take an extra two weeks around Easter? Perhaps Regular Easter and Eastern Orthodox Easter could be the beginnings and ends of the break.

If we don't know the correct date, what does it matter when we celebrate it? A lot of things aren't celebrated on their proper day (Memorial Day, for example). Without the right date, the time of the celebration is meaningless.

Point 2
Why aren't people up in arms about Santa Claus? A certain television show character once said "Let's not forget the real reason of Christmas; the birth of Santa Claus." So let's throw the all-seeing, all-knowing Santa out the window, because he never got you that pony you asked for, nor that rocketship. On the other hand, Jesus is handing out immortality for free. We all want that, and he only gives it to people who've admitted they've been bad!

So let's torch that plastic Santa and start thanking Jesus for his ultimate gift, and Mom and Dad for that neat Hot Wheels race car loop.

1 Corithians 8:1-13

If Santa is more important than Jesus, get rid of him. Sure, Jesus doesn't show up at your house Christmas Eve when you are 5 and deliver presents, but when you are 30, you should be thinking more about how Jesus gave you the ultimate gift of eternal life hundreds of years ago.

Christmas is fun. I love the Christmas tree, decorating the house, and giving/getting presents. But I never forget that Jesus did die for my sins on the cross, and that beats a Best Buy full of electronics any day. I used to like Santa Claus, but I grew up. I don't worship the Fat Man in red and never did.

Where the problem lies is people thinking (wrongly) that Christmas Day is evil. It is not idol worship and a lot of stuff is on the wrong day. But if the Lord is saying to you "Christmas trees and Santa Claus ain't for you; the Book of Luke is okay," listen to the Lord. No one is evil for celebrating Christmas or not celebrating Christmas. The problem is when you do either one for the wrong motives. Santa Claus is not Jesus, so we ought not be acting like he is.

Let's give Jesus a day out of year to celebrate whatever day it was our savior was born.:clap...again

[Jiggy37]

BTW how many times do we need to be reminded that 12/25 is not the real date of His birth. I think everybody got that memo so stop sending it.If only. :(:
It's like people believing Jesus was a Caucasian white man.


I think we should celebrate the 4th of July, on August 8 myself.

:noidea:rofl


Let's cut to the heart of the issue. Most of us think it's wierd for a non-cultist Christian to not celebrate Christmas like the rest of America does.Yes, which unfortunately says a great deal about how ingrained into culture some aspects of Christianity are. I'm inclined to distance myself from Christmas just because it's so cultural these days that even some of my non-practicing Jewish relatives celebrate it without believing in Christianity in the slightest. :twitch It disturbs me, on some level.

[BHiles]

Well I see in the long running tradition of the Christmas thread my words have been twisted again in order to condemn me for condemning which I was not doing :twitch

The term strange or maybe even cultic independents was strictly referring to independent baptist. Mainstream indpendents Baptists do celebrate Christmas. There are some independent Baptist who among many other oddities including extreme legalism, No cutting of hair, no makeup, etc etc who might not celebrate Christmas. These specific groups have a tendency to also be cultic. So chill. I did not state that if you do not celebrate Christmas you are part of a cult.

[chipminto]

Hmmmm...if I lit candles, wore a hooded garment, danced around a fire and chanted, then went to the airport and sold flowers, would THAT be a cult? :):
(I just think that this whole discussion is getting funny....)
HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO
Merry CHRISTmas.....
Happy Holidays....
Happy New year...
Happy Chanukah (spelling)
Look, up in the sky its RUDOLPH! No, it is the Chanukah Fairy....No wait, it is SAINT Nik...no no no, it is a shooting star...Nope, just an airplane.

[blitzkreig]

Hmmmm...if I lit candles, wore a hooded garment, danced around a fire and chanted, then went to the airport and sold flowers, would THAT be a cult? :): Cult? Maybe


Or maybe Klan ...


:B:

[StinkerBell]

I think we tend to forget that Christmas is a Man Made Holiday.

[StinkerBell]

Bah Humbug!



(did I do that right?)

[HeIsEnough]

I am sorry that you see that as condemning.

It ain't about me.

[blitzkreig]

I think we tend to forget that Christmas is a Man Made Holiday.Jesus birth is a God made miracle.

Christmas is man's puny attempt at honouring that fact.

That it has come down now to the 21st Century used and abused, commercialized and there are all sorts of other non-historic non-Christian "stuff" glued onto the side of it sometimes distorting it and making it less than it should or could be ... we have no ability to control.

One note should be made that the most of the commercialization came from US business interests ... for example "Santa Claus" was an invention of the Coca-Cola company ...

Elsewhere ... away from the influence of North America TV Specials ... Christmas is still just ... Christmas.

:nod

[ipjones6000]

Christmas is man's puny attempt at honouring that fact.

That it has come down now to the 21st Century used and abused, commercialized and there are all sorts of other non-historic non-Christian "stuff" glued onto the side of it sometimes distorting it and making it less than it should or could be ... we have no ability to control.


But if I enjoy the cheapness of Christmas, why can't I celebrate it without (as your view might suggest) that I am acting like a pagan? I see where you are coming from, but the slipperly slope is that "If you do Santa Claus and the Christmas tree, you are celebrating paganism!" I don't want to be rude, but the argument against celebrating it seems a little like saying those who do celebrate it are wrong for doing so, whether it is intended or not.

At what point do we say, have fun, but remember that today is just a cold day in December without Jesus? We don't celebrate it because of the pagan roots, we celebrate it because of Jesus. But if you celebrate it for reasons other than Jesus, perhaps it is time to do a little thinking.

[Sophie]

I have to say my husband and I haven't celebrated Christmas the "normal" way for the last three years. For the last three years we've put up no Christmas tree and sworn not to buy each other any gifts, (same with the relatives and friends). Now, we don't have small children, so that's one of the reasons we can get away with this. I refuse to have a tree with nine indoor cats. Let's get real...the tree would be laying on the floor more than it was standing.

Don't get me wrong. I've gone through years and years of hauling out the tree, unpacking the ornaments, detangling the lights, shopping the malls, fighting for parking places, and for what?? Because it's what's expected? Because "most Americans do it and expect others to do the same"? Was I happy going through all of this? Not really. It was more nerve-racking than pleasant. Was Christ's birth on my mind as my charge cards were running up and my stamina running down? And after all is said and done, you have this huge project of tearing down everything and packing it all away.

So it was "ME", who was unable, unlike the bigger percentage of you, to give Christ my utmost and wholehearted attention to the celebration of His birth. I came to the realization that I needed to devote December 25th to just Him personally. So, for the last three years we've put up no Christmas tree, told everyone no gifts, and starting in the morning we watch all the biblical movies any of the channels have to offer. The last two Christmas' we started out the morning with watching The Passion of The Christ. (If the channels don't offer a full day, we'll pop in a lot of our own biblical movies.) In our own way, we try to make the entire day all about Christ. The last three Christmas's have been very fulfilling for us. I so look forward to 12/25 now, instead of dreading the day after Thanksgiving up to December 25th.:clap I'm not panicked or pressured.:D: I'm not moody or easily provoked by relatives or rude shoppers and/or sales people.:laugh
I just have thoughts of those three wise men following that HUGE star, and poor Mary on that donkey very close to labor, and everything else leading up to our Savior's birth.

Bless those of you that can keep His birth the focal point while dealing with everything and everyone else that comes with that holiday. I couldn't. For me, the weak one; I had trouble concentrating on Christ through the commercialisim, the expectation of gifts, the decorations, the expense, the pettiness, and of late, the all but wiping out of His glorious name! I failed! :faint So I had to change things, and for me, it's a lot happier holiday. Just so you know, we do exchange gifts with the grown children and grandchildren, but we do it the end of January. Just not on the day "designated", (let's not get into THAT again), for Christ's birth.

On that note, I'd like to share something that's going around via the internet this season. A friend sent it to me and, I'm ashamed to admit, it sounds a lot like a lot of past Christmas' I was a part of.

As you well know, we are getting closer to my birthday.
Every year there is a celebration in my honor and I think that this
year the celebration will be repeated.

During this time there are many people shopping for gifts, there are many
radio announcements, TV commercials, and in every part of the world everyone is talking that my birthday is getting closer and closer.

It is really very nice to know, that at least once a year, some people think
of me.

As you know, the celebration of my birthday began many years ago.

At first people seemed to understand and be thankful of all that I did for
them, but in these times, no one seems to know the reason for the
celebration.

Family and friends get together and have a lot of fun, but they don't know
the meaning of the celebration. I remember that last year there was a great
feast in my honor. The dinner table was full of delicious foods, pastries,
fruits, assorted nuts and chocolates. The decorations were exquisite and
there were many, many beautifully wrapped gifts.

But, do you want to know something? I wasn't invited.

I was the guest of honor and they didn't remember to send me an invitation.

The party was for me, but when that great day came, I was left outside, they
closed the door in my face .. and I wanted to be with them and share their
table.

In truth, that didn't surprise me because in the last few years all close
their doors to me. Since I wasn't invited, I decided to enter the party
without making any noise. I went in and stood in a corner.

They were all drinking; there were some who were drunk and telling jokes and
laughing at everything. They were having a grand time.

To top it all, this big fat man all dressed in red wearing a long white
beard entered the room yelling Ho-Ho-Ho! He seemed drunk. He sat on the sofa and all the children ran to him, saying: "Santa Claus, Santa Claus" as if
the party were in his honor!

At midnight all the people began to hug each other; I extended my arms
waiting for someone to hug me and do you know no-one hugged me.

Suddenly they all began to share gifts. They opened them one by one with
great expectation. When all had been opened, I looked to see if, maybe,
there was one for me. What would you feel if on your birthday everybody
shared gifts and you did not get one?

I then understood that I was unwanted at that party and quietly left.

Every year it gets worse. People only remember the gifts, the parties, to
eat and drink, and nobody remembers me.

I would like this Christmas that you allow me to enter into your life.

I would like that you recognize the fact that almost two thousand years ago
I came to this world to give my life for you, on the cross, to save you.

Today, I only want that you believe this with all your heart.

I want to share something with you. As many didn't invite me to their party,
I will have my own celebration, a grandiose party that no one has ever
imagined, a spectacular party. I'm still making the final arrangements.

Today I am sending out many invitations and there is an invitation for you.
I want to know if you wish to attend and I will make a reservation for you
and write your name with golden letters in my great guest book.

Only those on the guest list will be invited to the party.

Those who don't answer the invite, will be left outside.
Be prepared because when all is ready you will be part of my great party.

See you soon. I Love you! JesusBlessings to ALL!

[barb43]

Let's cut to the heart of the issue. Most of us think it's wierd for a non-cultist Christian to not celebrate Christmas like the rest of America does.

The viewpoint expressed here is probably largely why many of us who don't celebrate do so quietly. Personally, i don't mind how you choose to celebrate, so long as you don't force me to do the same thing. I'm a Southern Baptist, btw, if i must tack a denomination onto myself.

If presents and the Christmas tree makes you stumble, then by all means light them on fire and call the fire department.

What is this - sarcasm? simple bluster? Whatever it is, it's not going to change someone's opinion. :noidea If folks who don't celebrate the holiday will leave you alone in your celebration, why don't you leave them alone in their non-celebration? Sounds pretty simple.

[TEXASGRANDMA]

ACLU wants to remove Jesus from Christmas. Not me, I celeberate Christmas with joy and gladness

[M_Gal]

Many folks on RR know that, but in all honesty Brent, you'd be suprised how many believers actually think that was His birthday!

It was a whole different month!

exactly, antsinmypants. I didn't know about all this.
I live in a small town in Missouri and for many years everyone celebrated
christmas including many churches. That's what I'm accustom too.
I wasn't insulting or putting this Baptist lady down at all or Judging her,
I just thought our town and the christians DO celebrate. It suprised me.
I now know coming to RR and just now posting that some Don't.
It was just a question. Thank-You all for your comments everyone.
You learn something New every day. I just didn't know.
M_Gal

[cinlynn]

double post.. How DO I do that? :doh

[cinlynn]

Tradition. That's what Christmas is.... for most of us. Simply tradition. Handed down from year to year,... generation to generation. :nod

For Christians., it's celebrating the birth of our Savior. Sure, He probably wasn't born on Dec 25th. Who picked that particular day anyway? :lol

But, the intention behind it is Godly, IMO. And my family recognize His arrival, in the form of a man as something astounding and special.

We celebrate CHRISTmas to celebrate Christ.


However! We also recognize the reasons for those Christians who do not acknowledge Christmas, and we respect it. :nod

[Knight of Faith]

For Christians., it's celebrating the birth of our Savior. Sure, He probably wasn't born on Dec 25th. Who picked that particular day anyway? :lol
It was just arbitrarily choosen.
It makes conversion of a culture easier if you can let them keep their hollidays. It's meant to come at roughly the same time as The Festival of Trees, the Winter Solstice, and the First day of Winter. It's also a mid-winter party to break up the seasonal depression that humans are subject to.

As long as people get to keep their mid-winter party day, they're happy. Same deal with haunaka and kwanza. Mid-winter party days to break up the depression.

[1951deb]

My goodness, but this thread made my heart ache with sadness. I don't celebrate Christmas. I celebrate HaShem's holy feasts. We will celebrate at least one of those feasts when He returns to rule. I'm learning Hebrew too, because I think we'll be speaking His language when He returns. This gives me joy, to follow in His footsteps. It does not make me "holier than thou" nor does it mean I belong to a cult, or that I am condemning somebody else for celebrating christmas. It's a matter of what is in my heart, between myself and HaShem. I do believe that the Bible tells us not to mix pagan culture with HaShem's. Isn't that why He told Abram to leave his father's house? I also keep the Sabbath, simply because it's the 4th commandment. It gives me great peace and pleasure to do this. Yeshua kept the Sabbath, too. And the Bible says we will keep it again, when He returns. So why not start now?

I don't really care what other people think of my "oddness"....but I did find many of the comments herein very offensive, and a long way from anything to do with being a "christian." When a person makes a decision, based upon what is between herself and HaShem, for her life, sometimes it is not an easy path to walk down, especially when one's own family thinks you've sprouted tentacles out of your head and gone round the bend. But I honestly do not see much about Yeshua in this season.....sorry......I do see just a whole lot of the adversary in this season, though. That alone is enough to keep me from having anything to do with this particular holiday. I find the holy feasts much more awesome and honoring to HaShem than I do this particular holiday, and just as an aside....the holy feasts also keep me focused on who and what Yeshua is, what He did, and what He is going to do. And soon, I pray. The holy feasts are for a memorial, and to be kept forever.

Guess HaShem knew what He was doing, trying to give us something to remember what He was trying to teach us.....because it sure looks like on a once a year basis, Christmas, we don't remember what it was He taught us!

Love. And this thread is does not convey that feeling to me. Maybe to others it does.....but not to me.

[BHiles]

:doh

[LDinthewoods]

BHiles - Why are you so upset with everyone over this?

[BHiles]

I'm not upset.

[LDinthewoods]

Then I'm very confused. I don't understand what it is you would like us to know about Christmas that some of us are not getting? You do seem to be frustrated about something.

[retire2006]

Let God's Word do the talking:
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic priciples of this world rather than on Christ.

Mark 7:7,8 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.

All of Mt 15 should be read but here is one scripture:
Mt 15:3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"
Mt 15:7,8,9 You hypocrites, Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: These people honor me with their lips; but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.

[frisian1970]

Let God's Word do the talking:
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic priciples of this world rather than on Christ.

Mark 7:7,8 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.

All of Mt 15 should be read but here is one scripture:
Mt 15:3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"
Mt 15:7,8,9 You hypocrites, Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: These people honor me with their lips; but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.
1. Why not link to the entire bible?
2. Who specifically are the hypocrites? Whose heart is far from Him?

:lock

[retire2006]

1. Why not link to the entire bible?
2. Who specifically are the hypocrites? Whose heart is far from Him?

:lock

Don't get me wrong, we're not calling anyone a hypocrite, not my job, but Jesus. I was trying to point out, getting caught up in the tradition of man is wrong and dangerous for your eternal life. If I could fit the entire Bible here I would.
2Tim 3:16,17 Please consider this scripture very seriously:
ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD BREATHED AND IS USEFUL FOR TEACHING, REBUKING, CORRECTING, AND TRAINING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS, SO THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE THOROUGHLY EQUIPPED FOR EVERY GOOD WORK.

Go to your Bible, please and read those scriptures for yourself and let the Holy Spirit guide you.

[Milkman]

Our family does not have a Christmas tree and gives no presents to each other. We want to stay away from the "gift festival" and pagan origins, and want to celebrate Christ's first coming and look forward to His second coming. :clap Best wishes to all of you.

[frisian1970]

Go to your Bible, please and read those scriptures for yourself and let the Holy Spirit guide you.
Good advice.

[walksbyf8h]

I believe that I can safely state Jesus' birthday (15th day of Tishri - a.k.a. Feast of Tabernacles). In fact, I'm sure that I can state His conception was during Hanukah (Kislev 25 - a.k.a. Feast of Lights) - nine months prior.

Believing that, does it matter how my siblings in Christ celebrate or do not celebrate Christmas- more to the point, is it any of my business? I am sure that few, if any, celebrate His actual birthday and it wouldn't matter one bit if they did. Should I consider them to be a bunch of unenlightened pagans? Should I treat them as if they are strange and a bit cultic if they don't? I've read the scriptures that have been posted to combat this mindset but for some strange reason it is not affecting behavior. :confused

Do that which is in your heart to do and do it unto the L0rd. As for Santa, it is my opinion that a child would be better served if their Christian parent would teach them about the real St. Nicholas, his works, and how he became a fabled character in our culture. It is my opinion that all of the other junk should be gotten rid of (mistletoe, elves, reindeer, and fat dude in the red suit).

May everyone on this board have a blessed and Merry Christ-mas . Happy Holy-days. May the L0rd watch over each and everyone of you. May love and peace abound in your hearts and your homes. May your children be healthy. May Jesus Christ be central to your marriages, that they are more intimate. May the knowledge and love of the L0rd be central to your lives now and until He takes us home.


The LORD bless you
and keep you;

the LORD make his face shine upon you
and be gracious to you;

the LORD turn his face toward you
and give you peace.

[savedandhappy1]

May everyone on this board have a blessed and Merry Christ-mas . Happy Holy-days. May the L0rd watch over each and everyone of you. May love and peace abound in your hearts and your homes. May your children be healthy. May Jesus Christ be central to your marriages, that they are more intimate. May the knowledge and love of the L0rd be central to your lives now and until He takes us home.


The LORD bless you
and keep you;

the LORD make his face shine upon you
and be gracious to you;

the LORD turn his face toward you
and give you peace.

Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

May the Lord also Bless You and Yours.

Merry CHRIST-mas

[RobinB]

Excerpt from www.liveprayer.com, by Bill Keller

Why Christians should NOT celebrate Christmas. Every year at this time, I

get inundated with emails that read like 40 page doctrinal dissertations on

why a Christian should NOT celebrate Christmas. They make very good

arguments about the pagan celebrations at this time of year, the evils of

the Christmas tree, lying to children about Santa Claus, how Jesus was not

born on December 25th, and many other reasons why a Christian should not

celebrate Christmas. To those people I have only one thing to say....BAH

HUMBUG!

Please, don't send me emails why those who celebrate Christmas are following

the devil. If you are led to not celebrate the birth of our Lord and want

to miss that is up to you. Sadly, your misguided legalism has stolen your

joy.

Listen, everyone understands that Jesus was not born on December 25th, but

according to most scholars, sometime in September. I have yet to meet

anyone that worshipped their Christmas tree, only decorated it. If you are

old enough to be able to read this, you are old enough to know that there is

no Santa Claus. And yes, there are many pagan celebrations that occur at

this time of the year, and the Bible does not have the word Christmas in it.

However, there is only ONE REASON that we celebrate Christmas and that is to

celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Christians SHOULD celebrate the birth of Jesus! It is right and good that

we take time each year to remember that blessed event. It was foretold by

the prophets of old. It is a well documented historical event chronicled in

the Gospels and supported by the historians of that day. After His death

and resurrection, it is easily the GREATEST EVENT IN HUMAN HISTORY!

Think about it. God Himself, the Creator of the heavens and earth, came to

this earth as a mere man to live with His creation. He came as a baby, born

of a virgin in a humble manger in an obscure little town. He would grow up

to die on a cross as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all mankind.

Three days after His death, God would raise Him from the dead as a sign to

this lost and unbelieving world that He was exactly who He claimed to

be...the SON OF GOD! His life would literally transform the lives of every

man, woman, and child for the rest of human history!!!

THAT is why we celebrate Christmas. THAT is why as Christians, we SHOULD

celebrate Christmas!!!

I love you and care about you so much. I realize that people who say not to

celebrate Christmas mean well, and are trying to live their lives in a way

pleasing and acceptable to God. Sadly, they are missing the great joy of

this time of year. I know they are well intentioned and many of the things

they point out about Christmas are true, but they have missed the point of

Christmas. Christmas is about only one thing, celebrating the birth of

Jesus. It is one of those times of the year that we gather with family and

friends and share our faith in Christ. That alone is a great reason we

should be celebrating Christmas.

Christmas is also VERY BIBLICAL. Luke chapter 2 gives us the account of His

birth. That was the very first Christmas. Of course Mary was there, as was

Joseph. We also read about several shepherds that God spoke to who were

part of that first Christmas. Now, some 2,000 years later, we will set

aside time in the coming days to do what they did at that first

Christmas...to celebrate the birth of Jesus!

I pray today that you will never forget what Christmas is really about, and

why we celebrate this holiday. Of course, anything that the world gets

involved with becomes perverted. The world has taken this sacred time of

the year and turned it into a time of commerce. We must never allow

ourselves to get so caught up in the parties, the gifts, the food, and all

of the other things associated with the Christmas season to forget what it

is about....a time to celebrate the birth of Jesus. THAT is what Christmas

is really about, and THAT is why as Christians, we SHOULD celebrate this

wonderful event!!!



In his love and service,

Your friend and brother in Christ,

Bill Keller

***If I can help you in any way you can contact me through my personal email

at bkeller@liveprayer.com

[barb43]

It's interesting, to me, how people are so quick to associate the word "legalism" to something they disagree with in religious matters . . . and as if "legalism" were a 4-letter word. Bill Keller is entitled to his opinion, and so are all the rest of us. :thumb

[Cattt]

I don't see a problem with it. If you don't celebrate it, then don't celebrate it.

[frisian1970]

It's interesting, to me, how people are so quick to associate the word "legalism" to something they disagree with in religious matters . . . and as if "legalism" were a 4-letter word. Bill Keller is entitled to his opinion, and so are all the rest of us. :thumb
Well said.

[Morningstarlet]

BTW how many times do we need to be reminded that 12/25 is not the real date of His birth. I think everybody got that memo so stop sending it. I found this out when I was 4 right after figuring out the Santa thing so please quit insulting our intelligence with this. Its like post after post stating santa isn't real, santa isn't real, santa isn't real :doh Jesus birth wasn't Dec 25th, Jesus birth wasn't Dec 25th, Jesus Birth wasn't Dec 25th. Talk about a dead horse:deadhorse

I'm with ya BHiles, I'm with ya. :sigh

[My Abba's Child]

My birthday IS Dec. 24 (according to 'tradition', He was born on the night of the 24th/pre-dawn 25th), would it be any less joyful and special to me if the people who loved me threw me a huge birthday party on April 18th? NO... it's the love in their hearts and the thoughts of me in their minds that are important.

In His love,

[frisian1970]

My birthday IS Dec. 24 (according to 'tradition', He was born on the night of the 24th/pre-dawn 25th), would it be any less joyful and special to me if the people who loved me threw me a huge birthday party on April 18th? NO... it's the love in their hearts and the thoughts of me in their minds that are important.

In His love,
:): I would suggest that applying what the Berean's found in the scriptures, as opposed to being on the theological prowl constantly to find those that are incorrect in their interpretation...might just be more appealing to those viewing what Christianity is about.

Of course, solely my flawed opinion.