Finding Leaver-Sensitive Churches

[Workn4God]

Does anyone know of a web site or blog that contains the names of leaver-sensitive churches? With many North American churches appearing to focus on drawing in seekers and increasing church attendance numbers, what's happening to our mature believers whose spiritual needs are no longer being met? What about those people who slip out the back door? No one seems to care?

How does one go about finding an "emerging", "post-congregational", or "leaver-sensitive" church? Do churches actually label themselves this way? Unfortunately many of the people I know who have quietly left a church away went away because they were hurt by the church and are looking for a real New Testament church (i.e., Ephesus, not Corinth) experience.

These are not bad or spiritually needy people. There were no major doctrinal splits that caused the alienation; no arguments, no mistreatment by a pastor (for the most part), nothing really. Nothing, except for the gnawing realization that the same church they have loved so many years ago now seems to be growing cold. Yes, the church still talks about Jesus, salvation, and sin, but people are no long kind to each other. Gossip exists where words of healing once were spoken and people have an attitude of "let the other guy do it" when it comes to volunteering.

Can anyone relate to this?

So where do the walking wounded go? Do any churches actually label themselves as "leaver-sensitive"?

I would appreciate a reality check from other believers out there since maybe this is just a local thing.

[Not by Sight]

If you find out, let me know!

[kwdozier]

I would highly recommend you try to find a Calvary Chappel. Go to www.calvarychapel.com and click on churches. From there you can click on your state and it will give a list of churches.

You will find that you are truly fed the word of God. Most teach verse by verse, and some do topical. They adhere very strictly to the bible and what it teaches, period. You will not find any man made rituals here and they really try hard to get everyone in the church involved in the functions of the church.

But no matter where you end up, make sure they are teaching the Word of God and not watering things down. When we were looking for a church back in January, we went to about a dozen different churches and found maybe 2 that did a really good job of teaching from the bible. Everyone else would maybe open the Word once or twice during the sermon and the rest was just fluff.

Good luck and God Bless.

Wayne

[HeartlandGal]

There isn't Calvary Chapel within 200 miles of us.

As for the OP, DH and I have not left our current church but often question why we still attend it.

[Lexie]

I would highly recommend you try to find a Calvary Chappel. Go to www.calvarychapel.com and click on churches. From there you can click on your state and it will give a list of churches.

You will find that you are truly fed the word of God. Most teach verse by verse, and some do topical. They adhere very strictly to the bible and what it teaches, period. You will not find any man made rituals here and they really try hard to get everyone in the church involved in the functions of the church.

But no matter where you end up, make sure they are teaching the Word of God and not watering things down. When we were looking for a church back in January, we went to about a dozen different churches and found maybe 2 that did a really good job of teaching from the bible. Everyone else would maybe open the Word once or twice during the sermon and the rest was just fluff.

Good luck and God Bless.

Wayne




Hi Notbysite,

I agree with kwdozier. All the Calvary Chapel's I have attended teach verse by verse out of the bible, and the worship music is beatiful too. If you can't find a CC in your area, check out the Baptist Churches, some have changed into PD not all.

:):

[Not by Sight]

The church I am wanting to leave is a Calvary Chapel :( It is a dysfunctional church that hasn't grown in ten years and people (elders) are always leaving with no one ever saying a word as to why. The pastor is very critical of people and recently the teaching has really taken a downturn as well. There has always been something fundamentally wrong here, and I have prayed over it for some time. I still don't know honestly if God wants me to leave, but it is to the point wher I dread going to church.

[roadrunner570]

Does anyone know of a web site or blog that contains the names of leaver-sensitive churches? With many North American churches appearing to focus on drawing in seekers and increasing church attendance numbers, what's happening to our mature believers whose spiritual needs are no longer being met? What about those people who slip out the back door? No one seems to care?

How does one go about finding an "emerging", "post-congregational", or "leaver-sensitive" church? Do churches actually label themselves this way? Unfortunately many of the people I know who have quietly left a church away went away because they were hurt by the church and are looking for a real New Testament church (i.e., Ephesus, not Corinth) experience.

These are not bad or spiritually needy people. There were no major doctrinal splits that caused the alienation; no arguments, no mistreatment by a pastor (for the most part), nothing really. Nothing, except for the gnawing realization that the same church they have loved so many years ago now seems to be growing cold. Yes, the church still talks about Jesus, salvation, and sin, but people are no long kind to each other. Gossip exists where words of healing once were spoken and people have an attitude of "let the other guy do it" when it comes to volunteering.

Can anyone relate to this?

So where do the walking wounded go? Do any churches actually label themselves as "leaver-sensitive"?

I would appreciate a reality check from other believers out there since maybe this is just a local thing.

I can relate to this. We left our first church because of this.

We were baby baby Christians about a year or so ago, and we started at this chruch nearby and loved it. People were warm and friendly and the pastor gave a good message.

As I grew, and my questions and thirst for scripture grew, I would try to talk to the pastor, but it was a small church, and this poor pastor was running through hoops to be able to visit everyone he needed to visit and meet everyone's needs, so it was hard to be able to talk to him.

In sunday school when we'd cover a certain passage and I'd point something out or ask a question about what a passage means..the teacher would often just sort of glaze over it without really wanting to get into it.

When they were having some shortages on teachers, I volunteered to teach, but was told I had to be an official member first. But to do that, I had to go through their 3 week member orientation class, but they only do those when they have a large enough group to go through, and they just had about 5 family go through one, so it would be awhile. BUt in the meantime, they were still short on sunday school teachers.

Then there was something going on with the youth pastor, and I don't knwo what, but he was asked to leave for some reason.

Shortly after that, our head pastors sermons went from very sharp, convicting sermons, to watered down, softball messages. I mean, yeah, he still preached sin and repentance, which is great for non-Christians there, but after 6 months or so, we both felt that our walk had just kind of stalled.

So we started going to another church nearby, a much larger one....but one where the pastors don't pull any punches and the sunday school classes will go as deep as you want...and in the meantime, no one from our old church ever called or stopped by to ask us where we went or why.

And yeah, we did feel bad because there were some people there we really liked. But, its like, do you go to church to be with friends...or to grow spiritually? I just felt like we were getting milk when we needed meat, and everyone else there seemed okay with that.

[mrsppmrxky]

My little church seems to be dwindling. We get many people to come through that are wounded. We minister to them. Our pastor spends many hours in free counseling sessions. when they get better, they leave.

It is almost like, when they are feeling better, they don't want to be with people that 'know them'.

It gets very discouraging. We are small, but we love each other and pray for each other. Our Pastor is a good teacher and he gives the gospel message. (He has problems......who doesn't.........but I know he loves the Lord and wants to reach the lost and help the wounded.)

[Lexie]

Noybysite,

I am sorry te hear that. Have you looked into the Messianic congregations in your area? The nurse at my Doctors office told me she loves the one she attends.

[cenimo]

roadrunner570
In sunday school when we'd cover a certain passage and I'd point something out or ask a question about what a passage means..the teacher would often just sort of glaze over it without really wanting to get into it.

My wife and I lead a Sunday school class, and we have the same frustration, but "reversed". We want to get into the verses, like Bereans (Acts 17:11) but for the most part the people there just want "adult conversation". It's like they use the firsr verse we cover as an ice breaker and after that what should have ben a discussion of something in the Bible turns into a review of their past week. Ironically, when we actually do hit on some verses, these very same people are the first to say, "I didn't know that was in the Bible."

WorkN4God
Excellent OP. Your comments are right on and the term "leaver sensitive" is verey clever - did you create it? Sad that we'd need such a term but it sure is accurate.

[Kathe]

This just happened with us. We loved our church as new Christians but over the last 6 months we left services feeling empty. We tried to volunteer but kept hearing that everything was handled. We finally found a small bible based church that we love. We leave filled up with the Word and they have plenty for us to do to serve. Just keep looking, God is telling you to find your church home.

[AWorker4Jesus]

My little church seems to be dwindling. We get many people to come through that are wounded. We minister to them. Our pastor spends many hours in free counseling sessions. when they get better, they leave.

It is almost like, when they are feeling better, they don't want to be with people that 'know them'.

...
That sounds very similar to my church too.

[His Bride]

Left our faithful bible teaching church in April, after the 40 days garbage and the church taking a new direction. We had been there for eleven years. It was devastating to me because our pastor was a line by line expositor. Why he stooped to the level of Rick Warren was beyond me as he was so much more gifted to rightly handle the Word. Anyway, we searched for months and months, many churches. Week after week we found what everyone else seems to be finding, a watered down, topical sermon with no meat. We also found a couple of more fundamentalist churches, but they seemed a bit too legalisitc, no grace. Finally, we located a Calvary Chapel that meets in the town's senion center. No flash, no entertainment. It's a very small group of believers but the pastor teaches line by line, precept by precept. We have grown and learned much in a few months. We also have communion once a month followed by a church potluck. God is faithful. We finally found a place we can call home.

[imfree]

I would highly recommend you try to find a Calvary Chappel. Go to www.calvarychapel.com and click on churches. From there you can click on your state and it will give a list of churches.

You will find that you are truly fed the word of God. Most teach verse by verse, and some do topical. They adhere very strictly to the bible and what it teaches, period. You will not find any man made rituals here and they really try hard to get everyone in the church involved in the functions of the church.

But no matter where you end up, make sure they are teaching the Word of God and not watering things down. When we were looking for a church back in January, we went to about a dozen different churches and found maybe 2 that did a really good job of teaching from the bible. Everyone else would maybe open the Word once or twice during the sermon and the rest was just fluff.

Good luck and God Bless.

Wayne

Hey I noticed you're from NC. I thought there weren't any CC in NC or am I missing something. :confused I attend a CC in the town where I live and it is awesome! :thumb

:wave

[Workn4God]

WorkN4God
Excellent OP. Your comments are right on and the term "leaver sensitive" is verey clever - did you create it? Sad that we'd need such a term but it sure is accurate.[/QUOTE]

Hello Cen,

Thanks for your kind words, but I came across the phrase "leaver-sensitive" in some research I've been doing in seminary on what's called being the post-congregational movement. Those are people who love God with all their hearts but find their desire to have an intimate relationship with God is more than their churches (who are primarily focusing ministery on the needs of seekers and new believers) can provide.

Perhaps this is a phenomena only experienced by more mature believers but research is showing that those quietly leaving through the back doors of our North American churches have typically held a leadership role, have a significant amount of organizational knowledge about the inner workings of the church, and have a strong desire to get closer to God. This is where the church fails them.

I agree with you - this is a very sad situation and I'm struggling to understand how this serves the Kingdom. Or does it? The one bright spot I think I see though is the emphasis on spiritually mobile believers who are now choosing to share their faith in home churches, work places, coffee shops and places outside the sacred walls. They're serious about building real, authentic relationships resulting in spiritual transformations for others. Wow! Is that exciting or what?!?:clap :clap

I once had a pastor friend tell me that sometimes God has to blast us out of our comfort zones to get us smack-dab into the center of His will. Perhaps this is precisely what's happening and we're witnessing an historic move of the Holy Spirit in our time and just don't realize it yet... or perhaps our churches (both small and megachurches) are truly failing mature believers in favor of seeking the attendance and $$$ of the newcomer. That feels so lukewarm, doesn't it?

Thanks to everyone for the suggestion about Calvary Chapel. Actually, I've attended one in the area. Sound teaching, authoritative doctine, and genuine concern for people; I think that Calvary Chapel is indeed a good choice and I've even referred a few people there.

Appreciate everyone's insightful comments so far - thanks for your thoughts!

[Workn4God]

[/quote]
WorkN4God
Excellent OP. Your comments are right on and the term "leaver sensitive" is verey clever - did you create it? Sad that we'd need such a term but it sure is accurate..[/quote]


Hello Cen,

Thanks for your kind words, but I came across the phrase "leaver-sensitive" in some research I've been doing in seminary on what's called being the post-congregational movement. Those are people who love God with all their hearts but find their desire to have an intimate relationship with God is more than their churches (who are primarily focusing ministery on the needs of seekers and new believers) can provide.

Perhaps this is a phenomena only experienced by more mature believers but research is showing that those quietly leaving through the back doors of our North American churches have typically held a leadership role, have a significant amount of organizational knowledge about the inner workings of the church, and have a strong desire to get closer to God. This is where the church fails them.

I agree with you - this is a very sad situation and I'm struggling to understand how this serves the Kingdom. Or does it? The one bright spot I think I see though is the emphasis on spiritually mobile believers who are now choosing to share their faith in home churches, work places, coffee shops and places outside the sacred walls. They're serious about building real, authentic relationships resulting in spiritual transformations for others. Wow! Is that exciting or what?!?:clap :clap

I once had a pastor friend tell me that sometimes God has to blast us out of our comfort zones to get us smack-dab into the center of His will. Perhaps this is precisely what's happening and we're witnessing an historic move of the Holy Spirit in our time and just don't realize it yet... or perhaps our churches (both small and megachurches) are truly failing mature believers in favor of seeking the attendance and $$$ of the newcomer. That feels so lukewarm, doesn't it?

Thanks to everyone for the suggestion about Calvary Chapel. Actually, I've attended one in the area. Sound teaching, authoritative doctine, and genuine concern for people; I think that Calvary Chapel is indeed a good choice and I've even referred a few people there.

Appreciate everyone's insightful comments so far - thanks for your thoughts!

[milkncookiesmom]

God is faithful. We finally found a place we can call home.

Leaver-sensitive churches.......interesting. We have been down this same path. We did talk with our pastor before leaving, but basically slipped out the back door quietly too. Nothing to cause a stir over, but didn't like the milk diet and the way 40 days of Purpose changed things even before the campaign started.

The most heart breaking thing for us was that except for one close friend, no one bothered with us. Even a year later, some didn't even know we were gone. We would see people around town and they thought we had only missed a few recent Sundays. :doh

I always thought about how the good shepherd left the 99 and went to find the 1 that was lost. In that sense, the church was just not Christ like at all. We could have have been in a serious crisis of faith and no one cared. In a sense we were. There were so many things that were concerning us and we needed Biblical answers for, but just didn't have anyone or anywher to go to at that time. We lamented that for awhile and because we weren't finding a new church easily, we did start to get scared and considered looking back at the old church, but because no one cared when we left, we knew that if we chose to return, any welcome back would be very superficial and plastic.

It is the same thing as when my mom died in 1998. We were truly in a family crisis that I won't go into complete detail, but my brother ended up hospitalized in the psych unit, I had a nursing 5 month old baby and a 2 year old, my DH was in a new job with no leave time and the stress was almost more than we could handle. The tragedy was with my sister who was just out of college at the time and was very active in her church. The loss of mom was very hard on her, since dad died when she was only 10. She considered herself an orphan of sorts. An adult, but just out of college and any safety net pulled out from under her. My sister really expected to be able to fall into the arms of her church family for a time and all she got was those pat responses..."Well, at least she is in a better place" etc. My mom died very quickly of an aggressive cancer and lived only 5 weeks past her diagnosis. No one was emotionally prepared for her death and then the week in the hospital watching and waiting for her to go, was torture. My body went through so much stress that week that once all the funeral planning was completed I developed a fever, crawled into bed and couldn't even attend my own mom's funeral. :cry

I know I sound bitter, but neither my sister or I found compassion or support from our respective churches. My sister walked away from Church after that. She hasn't walked away from Jesus, but she can't seem to bring herself to participate in the church game anymore. She found more support and compassion from her non-christian co-workers.

I think this seeker-sensitive stuff is hogwash when the church family can't even love the members they do have. Numbers are nothing. The depth of Christ's love and the height that Christ is glorified among the members of the body is an accurate picture of the church.

Whoa.....I'm pretty long winded here. As I write this though, I'm realizing how bitter I really am and that is something I need to take to God. But if you have read this far, I wanted to share something encouraging as well...

We have found a gem of a church after searching for nearly 2 years. Don't know why it took so long, but all in God's timing. I really feel as if our new church is a gem, a real treasure. I know it is the simple things, but our pastor makes a point of telling us he is glad we are there every single Sunday! :faint He sends an email to DH if we miss more than one Sunday, just to check to see that things are okay with us. One lady in the church has sent each of us a Birthday card on our Birthdays. I know....those things are so simple, but it is family loving and supporting family. :clap I don't think we could ever just slip away from this church, not that we would want to, but it is already clear that we matter to them. I would say that they are a "leaver-sensitive church".

Why are they leaver sensitive? Well, take a look at their mission.....

To be a church that is:
God-centered
Bible-saturated
People-loving
Believer-building

There is nothing seeker-sensitve about this church. The whole counsel of God is taught and freely flows. The priorties are set in proper order. :clap Praising God for Authenic believers who are authenticly loving others because Christ loved first.

[seeHimsoon]

workn4God and milkncookiesmom, I can't chat now I have to work, but just want to say that we also are right in the middle of this exact issue, and it is very difficult: (read, painful and a feeling of heartbreak). I'll chat more with you later.:):

[James122]

especially to milkncookiesmom,

I have experienced the same disappointment with my former "church". Harshly put, they played church. I was there for 2 years, taught SS to the 5-6th graders, and then fell very, very ill after the birth of our last dd. The church's response or lack thereof was shocking -- absolutely shocking to me.
There was ONE woman in the body of 300 or so who responded when I called and was like the hands of Jesus in my life -- I will always love her for it.

I never felt right going to that church after that -- but my dh insisted he didn't want to leave. He likes not being challenged to grow spiritually and, harshly put, my emotional needs have never been his concern. After much internal struggle I submitted to his authority. I sent my kids to Missionettes and Sunday School and took myself too when I had to, but it was agony. I tried so hard to forgive and move on and give the church and pastor and people a fresh start -- but my heart was always heavy when I entered the doors and I just no longer felt God's presence there.

Praise the Lord -- we've moved to another town and are currently seeking another church and I am being VERY, VERY careful about finding meat and not just milk, and sermons filled with THE WORD. I want to learn more about what the Bible says, not what people have to say ABOUT the Bible. I don't believe the Bible needs reinterpreting in a watered down fashion for consumption. The Bible just needs exposure to the light of day in front of our eyes.

I want a church where a spade is called a spade, where the teen girls who turn up pregnant are not patted nicely on the head but asked to repent before being embraced in full support; where the couples shacked up aren't treated just like the married folk; where the pastor's sermons are not like Jay Leno monologues full of jokes about his own personal life, kids, wife -- I'm not kidding, this guy does nothing but a comedy routine -- and I never could figure out what the point of any of his sermons was. He very seldom used scriptural references. (He was the associate pastor and got voted up when the previous beloved pasor of 22 years retired.)

Gosh, I'm sorry to rant -- but this thread is the story of my life for the last 2.5 years.

By the grace of God, and maybe as a reward for my growth in obedience to God's revealed will, I find myself with the opportunity to choose our new church, the one I hope to be attending the rest of my life.

I am being oh, so careful and listening to closely to God's input on this one. I believe He wants me in a church that nurtures what spiritual maturity I yet need and provides opportunity for me to give back what spiritual maturity He's trained me in thus far -- a two way street, to be discipled and to disciple.

Rant over, thanks for letting me vent, blessings to you all.


.

[antitox]

Perhaps this is a phenomena only experienced by more mature believers but research is showing that those quietly leaving through the back doors of our North American churches have typically held a leadership role, have a significant amount of organizational knowledge about the inner workings of the church, and have a strong desire to get closer to God. This is where the church fails them.

Very profound, and correct. I have personally found this to be the case. I left my last church with this issue but also because it went PDL and grew cold.

I agree with you - this is a very sad situation and I'm struggling to understand how this serves the Kingdom. Or does it? The one bright spot I think I see though is the emphasis on spiritually mobile believers who are now choosing to share their faith in home churches, work places, coffee shops and places outside the sacred walls. They're serious about building real, authentic relationships resulting in spiritual transformations for others. Wow! Is that exciting or what?!?

Wow. This is what I find myself trying to do. But I'm starting very small, currently with one brother in a ministry and go from there. After a series of letdowns and disappointments, it seems like just doing what you can in a more independent fashion (networking) seems to be the temptation. It's hard to say what I would actually do because I am hard pressed for a local fellowship.

[End of I]

I totally agree with this topic. However I just returned to a Calvary Chapel that I attended for 10 Years after a seven year absence. I left because I felt I had heard every sermon that the Pastor had ever preached and wasn't growing. I wanted to see what else was out there. Well, after "seeing" what was out there I can tell you that this one is probably as good as it gets. Dissapointment with Church is a part of maturing in your walk of faith, because if you can still love people, and believe The Bible after seeing the failings of believers (and yourself), you will only be stronger for it. Christ is our only refuge and solace in this life. Real faith is lived out and communicated in one on one relationships anyway. This is my first post by the way! Thanks!

[James122]

End of I, Wecome! Your thoughts do indeed seem mature.

Perhaps you're right -- if we're looking to our local church body as a refuge and solace, it is bound to be flawed, because only Christ Himself is perfect. Conversely, it is the body of Christ, the Church universal and the individuals who comprise it, who are to be about the business of making ourselves holy and blameless before Him.

Granted, if we all strive for holiness and should be increasing in it as we live in this mortal realm -- then shouldn't local church bodies be comprised of believers at all stages of development -- the seekers, the babes, the growing disciples, and the almost-there, most-mature-this-side-of-heaven disciple-ers?

Maybe our naming ourselves as "mature and bored in the local body" means we need to be giving more than we're taking from our local body, and 99 percent of what we're receiving spiritually comes directly from Him in prayer and Bible study and just sitting with Him silently, and then of course the moments He speaks into our lives and we chuckle and say, "There You are, of course."

So are we "mature but bored in the local body" types supposed to be church planters? Discipling individuals and leading classes which disciple? Ministering in word and deed each day beyond the walls of the church and our home?

Does our continually bumping up against this wall mean . . . it's time we follow Him over it?

Thank you for any responses to this ramble . . .


.

[Harley]

...this poor pastor was running through hoops to be able to visit everyone he needed to visit and meet everyone's needs, so it was hard to be able to talk to him...
problem #1 - it's not the pastor's job to meet everybodies needs...