"I don't want to be a United Methodist anymore

[70thWeek]

December 5, 2005
The Rev. Jean Schwien admits there are some days when she walks into the office of her Lakewood church and groans, "I don't want to be a United Methodist today."

She has a hunch that some in her increasingly conservative denomination might wish she weren't.

...She sounds traditional, but Schwien, 41, has joined a number of liberal pastors disillusioned with traditional Christianity and ripe to try the Center for Progressive Christianity, a movement started by Boston-based author and retired Episcopal clergyman Jim Adams.

Adams' ideas are meant to work within existing churches. Among them: There are alternative ways to truth, not just Christianity. The influence of Christian conservatives must be blunted. Gays, agnostics, "conventional Christians" and skeptics are welcome.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4290055,00.html

[abkn]

December 5, 2005
The Rev. Jean Schwien admits there are some days when she walks into the office of her Lakewood church and groans, "I don't want to be a United Methodist today."

She has a hunch that some in her increasingly conservative denomination might wish she weren't.

...She sounds traditional, but Schwien, 41, has joined a number of liberal pastors disillusioned with traditional Christianity and ripe to try the Center for Progressive Christianity, a movement started by Boston-based author and retired Episcopal clergyman Jim Adams.

Adams' ideas are meant to work within existing churches. Among them: There are alternative ways to truth, not just Christianity. The influence of Christian conservatives must be blunted. Gays, agnostics, "conventional Christians" and skeptics are welcome.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4290055,00.html

I hear the Jeopardy music in the background as I read this.

[mamacags]

:Sob WAAAAAAAAAAA I wanna promote sin and those darn Christians keep getting in my way :Sob




:tsk Shame on her.

[abkn]

:sob WAAAAAAAAAAA I wanna promote sin and those darn Christians keep getting in my way :sob




:tsk Shame on her.

Maybe people should wait for God to call them before deciding to become a preacher.

[TruthGiver]

The pastor in our church this last Sunday told us that a recent survey showed that over 50% of pastors would choose to do something different if it came along. That is pretty sad that so many people are being led by pastors whose hearts aren't in it! :(:

[70thWeek]

I am a member of the United Methodist church and am pleased with the fact that more orthodox pastors are entering the pastorate.

[LLee]

70thWeek, could you help me with something? I grew up in the UMC. Was in it until I got married 17 years ago. I'm in Wisconsin, which is a notorious UMC conference, so maybe that makes a difference. I was a member of a very conservative UMC church both at home and at college. No "Adam and Steve" nonsense, if you know what I mean.

The problem was - I never heard about Jesus there. Recently, I asked my mother whether they talk more now about Jesus. "No," was her response - and didn't see it as a negative. She's so pleased that her new pastor is also very conservative. But they still don't talk about Jesus!!

So, I want to know if this is a common UMC trait or just here in Wisconsin? They spend most of their time talking about living as a Christian - what Christians ought to be doing. I went to umc.org and I really couldn't find the Gospel there at all.

[willyday97]

70thWeek, could you help me with something? I grew up in the UMC. Was in it until I got married 17 years ago. I'm in Wisconsin, which is a notorious UMC conference, so maybe that makes a difference. I was a member of a very conservative UMC church both at home and at college. No "Adam and Steve" nonsense, if you know what I mean.

The problem was - I never heard about Jesus there. Recently, I asked my mother whether they talk more now about Jesus. "No," was her response - and didn't see it as a negative. She's so pleased that her new pastor is also very conservative. But they still don't talk about Jesus!!

So, I want to know if this is a common UMC trait or just here in Wisconsin? They spend most of their time talking about living as a Christian - what Christians ought to be doing. I went to umc.org and I really couldn't find the Gospel there at all.

I hear ya..I grew up in a Methodist Church as well and rarely a mention of sin or salvation through the blood of Jesus. My wife and I go to a Baptist church now. I have finally come to grips with letting go of a denomination label. As long as they continue to preach the Word of God and offer up convicting sermons, then I'm there. If a new preacher comes along and wants to tickle my ear and serve me brownies for a sermon......C-ya:bolt

[70thWeek]

70thWeek, could you help me with something? I grew up in the UMC. Was in it until I got married 17 years ago. I'm in Wisconsin, which is a notorious UMC conference, so maybe that makes a difference. I was a member of a very conservative UMC church both at home and at college. No "Adam and Steve" nonsense, if you know what I mean.

The problem was - I never heard about Jesus there. Recently, I asked my mother whether they talk more now about Jesus. "No," was her response - and didn't see it as a negative. She's so pleased that her new pastor is also very conservative. But they still don't talk about Jesus!!

So, I want to know if this is a common UMC trait or just here in Wisconsin? They spend most of their time talking about living as a Christian - what Christians ought to be doing. I went to umc.org and I really couldn't find the Gospel there at all.

I really haven't experienced this. However, Methodists churches do differ a lot from Baptist churches in that you won't hear a call for salvation every week or asked to be lead in the sinner's prayer, etc. This doesn't mean that they don't think that it's important or anything, it's just that they view the worship service differently. Usually, they assume that most people in attendance are Christians. People are available if you need prayer, etc.

[savedandhappy1]

Maybe people should wait for God to call them before deciding to become a preacher.


So true!!! I was totally not happy as JO was telling how he was telling his son one day this would all be his, and the son said something about how he would have an even bigger building. JO was so proud of his son.

What happened to the days when people were preachers because the Lord called them as compared to it being pasted down from generation to generation?

[ojos]

The influence of Christian conservatives must be blunted. Gays, agnostics, "conventional Christians" and skeptics are welcome.

Christ will forgive anyone who asks for repentence and believes in his payment on the cross. He is not exclusionary. People worry too much about christians and not enough about Christ.

--ojos

[blitzkreig]

I really haven't experienced this. However, Methodists churches do differ a lot from Baptist churches in that you won't hear a call for salvation every week or asked to be lead in the sinner's prayer, etc. This doesn't mean that they don't think that it's important or anything, it's just that they view the worship service differently. Usually, they assume that most people in attendance are Christians. People are available if you need prayer, etc.:freaked

Chistians who don't talk about Christ? Just one ot those things that make you go hmmm ...


†

[70thWeek]

:freaked

Chistians who don't talk about Christ? Just one ot those things that make you go hmmm ...


†

Again, I haven't experienced that. The Methodist churches that I have been to proclaim Christ, they just don't give an altar call as often as Baptist churches do.

[blitzkreig]

Again, I haven't experienced that. The Methodist churches that I have been to proclaim Christ, they just don't give an altar call as often as Baptist churches do.Oh OK. The "alter call" is an overbaked activity anyway ...

[The Sower]

..C-ya:bolt


:pound :wave

[The Sower]

Again, I haven't experienced that. The Methodist churches that I have been to proclaim Christ, they just don't give an altar call as often as Baptist churches do.


I think every service deserves an altar call:doh Isnt that part of the churches duty is called to do...called people down for prayer and to recieve the Lord Jesus!:redface

[JoelH]

I think every service deserves an altar call:doh Isnt that part of the churches duty is called to do...called people down for prayer and to recieve the Lord Jesus!:redface

I know out there (mainline Protestants and Reformed evangelical) this is often ridiculed as "Baptist/evangelical theology". Not all, but I have met a number of people in person or online (who may believe in theological orthodoxies eg believing Jesus is God and man and bodily resurrected) who view the whole thing of witnessing, being born again by trusting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour as "alien theology".

YBIC,

Joel

[70thWeek]

I think every service deserves an altar call:doh Isnt that part of the churches duty is called to do...called people down for prayer and to recieve the Lord Jesus!:redface

As I said, if the church is doing a wholistic ministry from childhood onwared, most people in your church would be Christians. The altar is always open in a Methodist church. Often, during communion, you will see many people praying at the altar.

I don't want to go too far off topic, but Methodist churches just differ from other churches with which you might be familiar. Salvation is taught, Christ is proclaimed, and calls for salvation take place, but not like you would see in a Baptist church.

[blitzkreig]

I think every service deserves an altar call:doh Isnt that part of the churches duty is called to do...called people down for prayer and to recieve the Lord Jesus!:redfaceHow many times must the same person "receive the Lord Jesus" at an alter call?

I come from an alter call background and I think they are for the most part poorly done, and not warranted by the preceding message.

[blitzkreig]

Methodists are the other extreme 70th. Has there EVER been an alter call at a Methodist Church?

[70thWeek]

Methodists are the other extreme 70th. Has there EVER been an alter call at a Methodist Church?

Yes. I've seen one.

[roadrunner570]

I am a member of the United Methodist church and am pleased with the fact that more orthodox pastors are entering the pastorate.

What can you tell me about UMC? I had heard they were liberal...or is there a different form of Methodist?:confused

[blitzkreig]

Yes. I've seen one.Well now I do believe in miracles ... :B:

[blitzkreig]

What can you tell me about UMC? I had heard they were liberal...or is there a different form of Methodist?:confusedNo. Liberals are not generally as that Methodist ... :heh

[roadrunner570]

No. Liberals are not generally as that Methodist ...

What do you mean?

[blitzkreig]

What do you mean?:lol

I love my Methodist Brothers and Sisters. But they are not "renown" as Economic nor Social Conservatives. Just the opposite.

Come to think of it ... maybe that is WHY I love them...

[Harley]

I think every service deserves an altar call:doh Isnt that part of the churches duty is called to do...called people down for prayer and to recieve the Lord Jesus!:redface
calling people to repentence may be a duty of the church, but altar calls are just one method of doing so - and a recent addition at that.

[The Sower]

How many times must the same person "receive the Lord Jesus" at an alter call?




i dont know~ only God knows men hearts~ but I thank God for the altar calls for whatever purpose or need in that indivuals life that God can richly fufill by prayer and seeking Him by coming to the calling!!:wave


Also too, It doesnt take an altar call to hear from God either~ If you seek Him sincerely, He will there for all who seek Him with their whole heart!:clap :clap

[The Sower]

calling people to repentence may be a duty of the church, but altar calls are just one method of doing so - and a recent addition at that.


just as long as it leads someone to Christ that all i care about anyway!!:wave

[70thWeek]

What can you tell me about UMC? I had heard they were liberal...or is there a different form of Methodist?:confused

They vary greatly from one church to the next and from one conference to the next. I will tell you that the more conservative element is gaining control and a split is likely within 20 years or so with the liberals leaving.

[tootie]

:wave I am a member of a UMC; have been for many years. We currently have an altar call at each service now that we have a new pastor. He speaks and proclaims JESUS each service. Our recent pastor never had an altar call and many of us were not happy with his decision. So, a group of women began to pray, and pray, and pray. Now, we have a pastor that proclaims the good news of JESUS and has an altar call. My point being: sometimes it is best to stay where you are and give the problem to GOD.................HE sure will answer in a mighty way! :hail

Our current pastor believes in prayer...............he wants prayer for our Church, our community and for him to be able to proclaim JESUS in the pulpit.

There are many UMC members who are not happy with the decisions/attitudes of the church and are praying to HIM to bring revival back to the church, bring the truth of JESUS back into the church. John Wesley would be horrified at the course that the UMC has taken. :(:

[PrayinPeach]

I asked my pastor about preaching the end times prophecies and he said it's not a major doctrine and is best left to Sunday school lessons.

I'm lookin' for an exit, y'all, the storytellin' Rev. is making me crazy...just gotta find a replacement pianist...or not...they can use the UMH cd set to sing, I think.

Sorry for rambling.

[laph]

:wave I am a member of a UMC; have been for many years. We currently have an altar call at each service now that we have a new pastor. He speaks and proclaims JESUS each service. Our recent pastor never had an altar call and many of us were not happy with his decision. So, a group of women began to pray, and pray, and pray. Now, we have a pastor that proclaims the good news of JESUS and has an altar call. My point being: sometimes it is best to stay where you are and give the problem to GOD.................HE sure will answer in a mighty way! :hail

Our current pastor believes in prayer...............he wants prayer for our Church, our community and for him to be able to proclaim JESUS in the pulpit.

There are many UMC members who are not happy with the decisions/attitudes of the church and are praying to HIM to bring revival back to the church, bring the truth of JESUS back into the church. John Wesley would be horrified at the course that the UMC has taken. :(:



Some of us are praying for the same thing at our UMC church. However, I was on staff until this week when I stepped down because some of the descisions that were being made. I can't back them. I will be looking for a new church after tomorrow as that is my last day of work.

[Sower]

Christ will forgive anyone who asks for repentence and believes in his payment on the cross. He is not exclusionary. People worry too much about christians and not enough about Christ.

--ojos
amen!:laugh :thumb

[prairiedog]

The problem was - I never heard about Jesus there. Recently, I asked my mother whether they talk more now about Jesus. "No," was her response - and didn't see it as a negative. She's so pleased that her new pastor is also very conservative. But they still don't talk about Jesus!!
I pm'd you.

P.S. I grew up in Kansas.

[prairiedog]

What can you tell me about UMC? I had heard they were liberal...or is there a different form of Methodist?:confused
I haven't attended a UMC in years, but at the time I did they were not advocating the things I'm about to post.

A former RCC friend attends UMC because they don't
preach about the downside of having children outside of wedlock.

The gay brother of a friend & his partner (former RCCs)attend UMC because they don't have to listen to sermons preaching the evils of homosexuality.

[70thWeek]

I haven't attended a UMC in years, but at the time I did they were not advocating the things I'm about to post.

A former RCC friend attends UMC because they don't
preach about the downside of having children outside of wedlock.

The gay brother of a friend & his partner (former RCCs)attend UMC because they don't have to listen to sermons preaching the evils of homosexuality.

Such beliefs depend on the conference, bishop, district superintendent, and ultimately the pastor.

As I said, I think that in 10-20 years when more grads from some of the better seminaries enter into positions of leadership, the UMC will transform, pretty much across the board.

[house]

I grew up in a Methodist church but never learned much about Jesus. Most lessons were about how to be happy. I never heard about the rapture or relevations either. I didn't know either existed till I got married.

[joyttw]

My dh grew up in a UMC and says he never heard the gospel until he was in his 20's and got saved at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa concert.

A former RCC friend attends UMC because they don't
preach about the downside of having children outside of wedlock.

The gay brother of a friend & his partner (former RCCs)attend UMC because they don't have to listen to sermons preaching the evils of homosexuality.


Another person I know who grew up in the UMC joked that the Methodists used the black highlighter in their Bibles... he must have gone to one of these more liberal churches...

[My Abba's Child]

December 5, 2005
The Rev. Jean Schwien admits there are some days when she walks into the office of her Lakewood church and groans, "I don't want to be a United Methodist today."

She has a hunch that some in her increasingly conservative denomination might wish she weren't.

...She sounds traditional, but Schwien, 41, has joined a number of liberal pastors disillusioned with traditional Christianity and ripe to try the Center for Progressive Christianity, a movement started by Boston-based author and retired Episcopal clergyman Jim Adams.

Adams' ideas are meant to work within existing churches. Among them: There are alternative ways to truth, not just Christianity. The influence of Christian conservatives must be blunted. Gays, agnostics, "conventional Christians" and skeptics are welcome.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4290055,00.html

:doh

In His love,

[My Abba's Child]

Christ will forgive anyone who asks for repentence and believes in his payment on the cross. He is not exclusionary. People worry too much about christians and not enough about Christ.

--ojos

That's the point they were trying to make... people aren't being made aware that they NEED to repent, much less ASK for repentant, these people are revelling in their sins because they're being told, or at least being led to believe because no one's telling them otherwise, that God is OK with how they're living. No, Christ Jesus is NOT exclusionary... He spent His ministry with the "dregs of humanity" according to the religious muckety mucks of the day. HOWEVER, He NEVER let anyone leave Him without telling them GO FORTH AND SIN NO MORE!

In His love,

[My Abba's Child]

I think every service deserves an altar call:doh Isnt that part of the churches duty is called to do...called people down for prayer and to recieve the Lord Jesus!:redface

hehe I know a pastor who believes that it's OUR duty (as congregants) to bring people to salvation, then invite them to church. He doesn't believe that it's the church's job to give the gospel. They should already have heard the gospel and accepted it before they come to church. :noidea

In His love,