Tithing Dilemma

[LambsLight]

the bible states that your cursed with a curse if you don't pay your tithings. well, i recieved my checked and then took out enough for tithing and offering. this friend who always helps me out with transportation was in need for some gas money to go home. i only had my tithing money and gave him $5 dollars out of my tithing! i told him he had to repay me though not because i needed the money, because it was God's money. wow, thats sounds hypocritical, but he always drives me everywhere without any hesitation. i'm so confused:doh :confused do you think that i should of helped a brother in need or just kept the money and gave to God.

[MidnightCry]

I think you totally did the right thing.

Mt 25:40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

Many people have told me that we are no longer "bound" to the 10% of the OT. I don't know if I agree with that, but I also don't think that we are cursed if we don't tithe 10%. There may very well be scripture supporting that -- I just don't know of any.

We give over 10% tithe, but then more when we see others in need -- and those opportunities are plentiful in our world!

[His Bride]

God sees the heart and knows what you did to help your friend. It's only between you and God anyway.

[blitzkreig]

the bible states that your cursed with a curse if you don't pay your tithings.Maybe you can share with us where you feel it says this? Failing to keep 100% of the Law of Moses yields death and hell ... is not the tithe a part of that Law? Well we are not under the Law of Moses now are we?

I think you totally did the right thing.

Mt 25:40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' This is explaining the Sheep Goat judgement of those nations who live through the Tribulation. The"brotheren" mentioned in the verse are Jews.

[LambsLight]

Maybe you can share with us where you feel it says this?


gladly....

malachi 3:8- (and it reads) 8"Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?" "In tithes and offerings 9You are under a curse- the whole nation of you-because you are robing me. thanks for input. i really felt guilty.

[roadrunner570]

People tend to get really legalistic over tithing, but here is a good passage:

2Co 9:6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.
2Co 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

I don't see that God puts a set percentage on what we give, but he wants us to give cheerfully. I know there are some paydays we give a lot, some we're behind and don't give much at all. No, we dont' try to make up for what we didn't give one week. I honestly think God looks at your heart. Some people tithe as if they're paying a bill.

Look at it this way, if you get paid say $300, and you know you can afford to and cheerfully give $10, but you know you're SUPPOSED to give $30, so you put $30 in the offering plate, but are thinking "Man, I could use that extra $20 to pay off some bills, rent a video game, etc, etc..." Do you think God is going to truly consider your full gift of $30? Or do you suppose that if you just gave the $10 that you wanted to give and were at peace about it, that God would be happier with that?

[Mailman Dan]

This is explaining the Sheep Goat judgement of those nations who live through the Tribulation. The"brotheren" mentioned in the verse are Jews.

I would love to see how you came to believe that. Start a thread on it if you will, cuz i'm not going to high-jack this one.


the bible states that your cursed with a curse if you don't pay your tithings. well, i recieved my checked and then took out enough for tithing and offering.

First off, your doing what 90% of Christians don't do, and thats awsome.

Second, the 10% doesn't all have to go to a church, but can be used in work for the kingdom. My wife and I split our tithe. She gives her 10% to our church, and I use mine in other areas, such as to buy witnessing tools. (Tracts, cd's, or various other mission support areas...RR is also a good investment)

Dan~~~>beileves tithe money should go to helping people when it can:thumb

[MidnightCry]

This is explaining the Sheep Goat judgement of those nations who live through the Tribulation. The"brotheren" mentioned in the verse are Jews.

Huh? Yes, I am very familiar with what this passage is talking about. I don't agree that the "brothers" only refers to Jews, but that is another topic. The point of the parable is that God will separate his obedient followers from pretenders and unbelievers. The real evidence of our belief is the way we treat others. We should reflect God's love by helping others in need.

[blitzkreig]

gladly....

malachi 3:8- (and it reads) 8"Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?" "In tithes and offerings 9You are under a curse- the whole nation of you-because you are robing me. thanks for input. i really felt guilty.So you think we Gentiles in the New Testament are the Jews in the Old Testament who are to Tithe 23 1/3 % of income to the Levites in the temple? You note that it was the "nation" who would be robing God. What nation do you think God was dealing with at the time ... ?

:twitch

[blitzkreig]

I would love to see how you came to believe that. Start a thread on it if you will, cuz i'm not going to high-jack this one.So you don't think when the Jews in the Scriptures mentioned "brethren" ... they were refering to their own kind ... the Israelites?

I hope you know that they were by law not to associate with other than the Jews ... why would they refer to those who they could not associate with as "bretheren"? :confused

[blitzkreig]

I don't agree that the "brothers" only refers to Jews, but that is another topic.I don't believe that Jews in that era would refer to other than Jews as anything other than dogs. Such was the culture of the time ...

Jesus refered to gentiles as dogs ...

Mat 15:22-27
(22) And behold, a woman of Canaan coming out of these borders cried to Him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is grievously vexed with a demon.
(23) But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and begged Him, saying, Send her away, for she cries after us.
(24) But He answered and said, I am not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(25) Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, Lord, help me!
(26) But He answered and said, It is not good to take the children's bread and to throw it to dogs.
(27) And she said, True, O Lord; but even the little dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' tables.Jesus meant no offence ... such was the position of those who were not Jews ...

[ginnae]

I don't think that giving to God is just in the church. I believe God gives us money to help other people (whether that is in the church or not) Your friend had and need and you met it. I believe that is how God wants us to use our money. You never know how one little kindness can lead to greater things.

Was the money that was collected in the N. Testement and given to those Christians in Jeruselum used to help a needy cause? Yes, it was, it was for a person's immediate need, not keeping a gathering place running. I believe God wants us to reach out to all people. A kind gesture towards someone will show God's witness to someone.

[blitzkreig]

I don't think that giving to God is just in the church. I believe God gives us money to help other people (whether that is in the church or not) Your friend had and need and you met it. I believe that is how God wants us to use our money. You never know how one little kindness can lead to greater things.

Was the money that was collected in the N. Testement and given to those Christians in Jeruselum used to help a needy cause? Yes, it was, it was for a person's immediate need, not keeping a gathering place running. I believe God wants us to reach out to all people. A kind gesture towards someone will show God's witness to someone.
:amen

[sandy111]

we are under grace not the OT law.

question:

do you keep all the other laws too? or just this one?

[BHiles]

Tithing is not Law

Tithing is a Biblical Principle



10% is for the Father (This is not law this is principle)
90% is for Jesus
+ is for the Holy Spirit that He has impressed upon you to give and then provides the funds to give it.

Were the whole realm of nature mine,
That were a present far too small;
Love so amazing, so divine,
Demands my soul, my life, my all.

[Mailman Dan]

Jesus refered to gentiles as dogs ...


Now I know you need a new thread...



Dan~~~>doesn't want to mess up this one on another topic

[ginnae]

Tithing is not Law

Tithing is a Biblical Principle



10% is for the Father (This is not law this is principle)
90% is for Jesus
+ is for the Holy Spirit that He has impressed upon you to give and then provides the funds to give it.

Were the whole realm of nature mine,
That were a present far too small;
Love so amazing, so divine,
Demands my soul, my life, my all.

Ok, maybe I am not awake yet, but you give 10% to the father 90% to Jesus, then whatever beyond that to the Holy SPirit as it is impressed on us. How do we give over 100%?

[BHiles]

Ok, maybe I am not awake yet, but you give 10% to the father 90% to Jesus, then whatever beyond that to the Holy SPirit as it is impressed on us. How do we give over 100%?

:noidea That is just how God does things. He is the Author of something from nothing.

Matthew 15:36 And he took the seven loaves and the fishes, and gave thanks, and brake them, and gave to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.
37 And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets full.
38 And they that did eat were four thousand men, beside women and children.

[MamawSandy]

The church has long ago quit being a storehouse. They use the money for buildings, salaries, etc. These are not bad, but they have gotten out of hand. Seldom does a church give to the needy except at holidays to make themselves feel better.

I would much rather give to someone in need. I sometimes give to pastors who have blest me in some way. After all, a workman is worthy of his hire. I give to those who are truly ministering to the needs of people I can't reach. But I don't give automatically to the so-called church. I can't abide the way they misuse the tithe for worldly things.
Sandy:wave

[HEISRISEN]

I work at a Catholic Church and my job there is bookkeeping -I post all the parishioners contributions and pay all the bills.
I am not Catholic, I am Baptist (just to get that straight)

As far as saying Churches don't give to the needy that is inaccurate-you really wouldn't know if you aren't closely related to the finance end of things.
Every quarter I send off 10% of all Collections to needy organizations-food banks, orphanages, prisons, etc.

I am amazed at the generosity of Catholics, I never-ever hear them whining about giving and believe me they give to alot of charities. They take care of people in the US as well as foreign countries. They give their 10% plus give to special collections-such as rice bowl-feeding the hungry in other countries, St vincent dePaul- which takes care of local people that need emergency food or shelter,clothing.

Besides that they give of their time-I see alot of parishioners in the office, they run alot of the background programs in the church. Tithing committes, Pastoral council, Finance council, Building committee. (these people give alot of time to assure the church runs smoothly.)

In my own life I am trying to be more like these people-give my 10% at church, give to those on the street that need it, what I can. And give of my time ( which may be the most important) If I feel led to give some poor person on the street the last money in my wallet-I do it, then cut back on something at home. I have never had a problem paying my bills, it always seems to work out.

Where I work we don't spend the money on any worldly things, everything we take in is spent on maintaining the buildings, grounds, utilities, materials for services, taxes on property, Salaries-there are only 6 employees for this big church and employee benefits-only 4 are covered. I publish my income statement quarterly for any parishioners that want to know where the money goes-so if this is a concerne for you ask your church for an income statement so you can check out what they do with the money.

[SolitaryLamb]

The church has long ago quit being a storehouse. They use the money for buildings, salaries, etc. These are not bad, but they have gotten out of hand. Seldom does a church give to the needy except at holidays to make themselves feel better.

Sandy:wave

I can relate well with this, our previous church was very proud of the fact that they were able to keep there bank account constant or increasing. I had a really hard time giving them more than a token amount. Writing a check to them just felt....well wrong. They had no outreach and offered nothing to anybody or anything. It was a struggle for them to even offer help to members of the church who needed a little help due to loss of work, medical bills, etc. :(:

At that time we started giving directly to those that needed or were in a position to help those in need. The response of this church to Hurricane Katrina was the final straw that sent us looking for another fellowship.:tsk

Our new church is as different as night and day from the previous. They have outreach and helps everywhere and do not sweat over there statement balance, the Lord will provide! We have since gladly increased our offering to this church but we still practice giving to organizations that we feel are worthwhile in aiding those that need it, as well as spreading the Word.

[abkn]

I usually give 100% of all my tithes to the poor. If someone asks me for money, I consider it part of my tithe.

[semperfidelis]

the bible states that your cursed with a curse if you don't pay your tithings. well, i recieved my checked and then took out enough for tithing and offering. this friend who always helps me out with transportation was in need for some gas money to go home. i only had my tithing money and gave him $5 dollars out of my tithing! i told him he had to repay me though not because i needed the money, because it was God's money. wow, thats sounds hypocritical, but he always drives me everywhere without any hesitation. i'm so confused:doh :confused do you think that i should of helped a brother in need or just kept the money and gave to God.

Question...?

Was the total of your check your tithe? Were you able to give your friend money out of "The Rest" instead of what you had set aside for God?

Was that all the money you had left to offer to your friend?

[semperfidelis]

we are under grace not the OT law.

question:

do you keep all the other laws too? or just this one?

Sandy, tithing was before the Law. Offering firstfruits even goes back before Abraham to Cain and Abel.

This is something that should not change under grace. It is a standard in Gods word.

[blitzkreig]

I keep seeing people post that tithing was "before the Law".

1) God has ALWAYS had laws.

2) First-fruit was NOT "tithing" ... it is a different "law". First-fruit has nothing to do with a "tenth" ... it was the "best" and left up to the discression of the giver.

3) Tithing is a legal term ... a part of the "Law of Moses". A tax.

From Smith's:

First-fruits

1. The law ordered, in general, that the first of all ripe fruits and of liquors, or, as it is twice expressed, the first of first-fruits, should be offered in God's house. Exo_22:29; Exo_23:19; Exo_34:27. It was an act of allegiance to God, as the giver of all. No exact quantity was commanded, but it was left to the spiritual and moral sense of each individual.

2. On the morrow , after the Passover Sabbath, that is, on the 16th of Nisan, a sheaf of new corn was to be brought to the priest and waved before the altar, in acknowledgment of the gift of fruitfulness. Lev_2:12; Lev_23:5-6; Lev_23:10; Lev_23:12.

3. At the expiration of seven weeks from this time, that is, at the Feast of Pentecost, an oblation was to be made from the new flour, which were to be waved in like manner with the Passover sheaf. Exo_34:22; Lev_23:15; Lev_23:17; Num_28:26.
4. The Feast of Ingathering, that is, the Feast of Tabernacles, in the seventh month, was itself an acknowledgment of the fruits of the harvest. Exo_23:16; Exo_34:22; Lev_23:39.

These [preceding] four sorts of offerings were national. Besides them, the two following offerings were of an individual kind.

5. A cake of the first dough that was baked was to be offered as a heave-offering. Num_15:19; Num_15:21.

6. The first-fruits of the land were to be brought, in a basket, to the Holy Place of God's choice, and there, presented to the priest, who was to set the basket down before the altar. Deu_26:2-11. The offerings were the perquisite of the priests. Num_18:11; Deu_18:4. Nehemiah, at the return from captivity, took pains to reorganize the offerings of first-fruits of both kinds, and to appoint places to receive them. Neh_10:35; Neh_10:37; Neh_12:44. An offering of first-fruits is mentioned as an acceptable one to the prophet Elisha. 2Ki_4:42.

[semperfidelis]

I keep seeing people post that tithing was "before the Law".

1) God has ALWAYS had laws.

2) First-fruit was NOT "tithing" ... it is a different "law". First-fruit has nothing to do with a "tenth" ... it was the "best" and left up to the discression of the giver.

3) Tithing is a legal term ... a part of the "Law of Moses". A tax.

From Smith's:

Blitz, the word tithes is actually used in the greek in Genesis 14:20

Gen 14:20 And blessed1288 be the most high5945 God,410 which834 hath delivered4042 thine enemies6862 into thy hand.3027 And he gave5414 him tithes4643 of all.4480, 3605

H4643
מעשׂרה מעשׂר מעשׂר
ma‛ăśêr ma‛ăśar ma‛aśrâh
mah-as-ayr', mah-as-ar', mah-as-raw'
From H6240; a tenth; especially a tithe: - tenth (part), tithe (-ing).


The concept of the tenth and the tithe was around before the Mosiac law as implemented.


As far as Abel and Cain go, no one was suggesting that they gave a tenth with their firstfruits, they may very well have but scripture does not indicate that. What is important is that it shows firstfruits offerings being given before any form of Law was given through the Abrahamic or Mosaic Covenants. In the wisdom of Proverbs we also find reference to honoring the Lord first.

Proverbs 3:9
Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops

The idea here is that from Cain and Abel through Abraham and Jacob through the Mosaic law and into the new testament we can see a pattern for giving and sowing and reaping.

If anything the bar should be raised from the law into the new covenant.

[sandy111]

since when is all weath related to just money?

and we are not under the law. yes we should give.
but some can give more than others, and some can give more t han the 10th.

how many are giving in other areas and not just money???

we give because we love him, not to get.

and yes, he blesses but he blesses his way.

and offering first fruits again, I ask.... how did it all translate to money in these days?

[semperfidelis]

since when is all weath related to just money?

and we are not under the law. yes we should give.
but some can give more than others, and some can give more t han the 10th.

how many are giving in other areas and not just money???

we give because we love him, not to get.

and yes, he blesses but he blesses his way.

and offering first fruits again, I ask.... how did it all translate to money in these days?

Sandy it is important to give in other areas. But in reference to money that is where the rubber always meets the road. Why?

It is hugely important. Both in terms of our submission and blessings to the kingdom.

Satan knows this. That is why the hair stands up on the back of some peoples neck when the word money is mentioned in Church.

You want to see where peoples hearts are. Look through their checkbook. You will get a quick picture of what is important.

[Ligitt]

You want to see where peoples hearts are. Look through their checkbook. You will get a quick picture of what is important.


:amen

[semperfidelis]

You want to see where peoples hearts are. Look through their checkbook. You will get a quick picture of what is important.


:amen

Not that I am judging. We all could be put under the microscope. I heard our pastor use that reference one time and it really resonated with me.

one of the places where the rubber really meets the road.

[Dana67]

the bible states that your cursed with a curse if you don't pay your tithings. well, i recieved my checked and then took out enough for tithing and offering. this friend who always helps me out with transportation was in need for some gas money to go home. i only had my tithing money and gave him $5 dollars out of my tithing! i told him he had to repay me though not because i needed the money, because it was God's money. wow, thats sounds hypocritical, but he always drives me everywhere without any hesitation. i'm so confused:doh :confused do you think that i should of helped a brother in need or just kept the money and gave to God.

I think you did the right thing, LambsLight, in giving your friend gas money, even though all you had on you was the money that you took out for tithe.
My mom always told me that you need to tithe where you get "fed"... most often that's your church, right? But does your friend bless you when he drives you someplace? I think so...
So many people say that we are not under the law anymore so we don't have to tithe. I agree that we are not under the law, but I DO believe that God will pour out blessings upon us and fill up our storehouses if we will only give our first 10%. God has proven Himself in so many ways in my own household, and not just financially.

I have heard people say "I can't afford to tithe." I say I can't afford NOT to.

[Jacob]

the bible states that your cursed with a curse if you don't pay your tithings. well, i recieved my checked and then took out enough for tithing and offering. this friend who always helps me out with transportation was in need for some gas money to go home. i only had my tithing money and gave him $5 dollars out of my tithing! i told him he had to repay me though not because i needed the money, because it was God's money. wow, thats sounds hypocritical, but he always drives me everywhere without any hesitation. i'm so confused:doh :confused do you think that i should of helped a brother in need or just kept the money and gave to God.
I won't get into the issue of whether or not tithing is for today. I've read the articles of bible scholars who know more than I do who come down on both sides of the issue.

I will say this: Regarding questionable or debatable issues, Paul taught in Romans 14 that you should not do anything with doubts about it, but only if you are "fully persuaded in your own mind."

Therefore, if you believe that you should tithe, then you should pay God first (at least that way you won't be faced with that dilemma) or, depending on what type of conviction you have, you might owe Him $5.00! That is an issue between you, the Lord, and what you believe He taught you through His word after diligent study on the issue.

Given that someone asked you for gas money, and even though it indirectly benefits you by getting rides, you still did not go out and spend it on yourself in a selfish way. There is a passage in the gospels in which the Lord gets upset at the Pharisees because they denied providing financial assistance to help their aging parents in order to give the money to the Temple as a tithe. He taught them that they should still pay their tithes, but also not neglect to help the ones who are in need. :thumb

[BHiles]

Giving money to someone is not tithe. It is not offering. It is alms and has certain criteria in the manner in which it is to be given.

[CountryBumpkin]

WE need to give with a joyful and generous heart and IMHO we are not to ask the reciever to repay what has been given.

[blitzkreig]

Giving money to someone is not tithe. It is not offering. It is alms and has certain criteria in the manner in which it is to be given.Giving money to the Church is not the tithe either.

As far as I can see the "Church" never collected a tithe.

The early "Church" had everyone sell all their goods and pool it together to live off ... until they went broke. Kind of a Christian Communism.

I don't see that preached very often. Seems like the Church liked the Old Temple revenue source better ... :lol

[blitzkreig]

The old Testament tithe was by way of goods. "Offerings" went up in smoke.

I have never seen our church burn any of their tithe.

Times have changed. :lol

[semperfidelis]

The old Testament tithe was by way of goods. "Offerings" went up in smoke.

I have never seen our church burn any of their tithe.

Times have changed. :lol

Are we in Violent agreement again Blitz. :):

[semperfidelis]

Giving money to someone is not tithe. It is not offering. It is alms and has certain criteria in the manner in which it is to be given.

Bravo.

You are correct. The Tithe is the Tenth. it is to be freely given and we are not to dictate where it goes. Generally this goes to where you are being fed.

The Offering is anything above and beyond that. It can be dicated or given freely.

The Alm is money to the poor, it also can be dictated.

All three are fantastic things. But you are correct Bhiles, you cannot tithe more than 10%, you can tithe 10% and then offer beyond that.

[semperfidelis]

WE need to give with a joyful and generous heart and IMHO we are not to ask the reciever to repay what has been given.

Take a look at this. I think it is clear that if we sow we reap, not that we expect it. God is good and faithful.

Mark 10:30
will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.

Notice it says in this present age and beyond.