Joel
December 2nd, 2005, 04:35 AM
We were actually discussing this over here (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=232376) if you would like to have a look. :):
Enoch is mentioned actually in three distinct places.
Genesis, Jude, and Hebrews.
[amplified Bible]
Hebrews 11:5 Because of faith Enoch was caught up and transferred to heaven, so that he did not have a glimpse of death; and he was not found, because God had translated him. For even before he was taken to heaven, he received testimony [still on record] that he had pleased and been satisfactory to God
I was actually just mentioning, if you string together the 10 antideluvian patriarchal's lives [Genesis 5] together [those of note], you begin to get a picture of messiah's ministry.
In summation...
[Luke 3:38] Adam shows us Christ firstly as the Son of God - which has exchangings with a certain 'Tree', prophetic of the Tree our Lord would die on.
[Hebrews 11:4, 12:24] Abel, son of Adam [whose name literally means 'man'], thusly, Abel; 'son of Man' shows us Christ in the role as the Son of Man - who was unjustly slain, being righteous, His blood crying out from the earth.
[Genesis 4:25] After these we come to Seth, who was God's replacement for Abel, being slain, Seth then being a type of 'new life' and 'resurrection' [life in place of what once was death] of the righteous lineage and God's plan of Salvation.
This obviously points us to Christ, son of God - son of Man, who being slain on the Tree, was raised up to life in resurrection power on the Third Day [this Seth being the Third son from Adam, as well].
[Genesis 4:26] Seth bearing a Son whose name was Enos, whose life includes with it the following single line 'then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.'
Scofield's notes and the Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge remarks ...
call upon the name
Or, call themselves by the name of Jehovah.
Contrast (Gen_12:8); (Gen_26:25).
Enos: Heb. Enosh, to call upon the name of the Lord. or, call themselves by the name of the Lord. Deu_26:17, Deu_26:18; 1Ki_18:24; Psa_116:17; Isa_44:5, Isa_48:1, Isa_63:19; Jer_33:16; Joe_2:32; Zep_3:9; Act_2:21, Act_11:26; Rom_10:13; 1Co_1:2; Eph_3:14, Eph_3:15
Adam Clarke's commentary notes ...
Gen 4:26 -
Then began men to call upon the name of the Lord - The marginal reading is, Then began men to call themselves by the name of the Lord; which words are supposed to signify that in the time of Enos the true followers of God began to distinguish themselves, and to be distinguished by others, by the appellation of sons of God; those of the other branch of Adam’s family, among whom the Divine worship was not observed, being distinguished by the name, children of men.
John Wesley's notes ...
Then began men to call upon the name of the Lord - Doubtless God's name was called upon before, but now,
1. The worshippers of God began to stir up themselves to do more in religion than they had done; perhaps not more than had been done at first, but more than had been done since the defection of Cain. Now men began to worship God, not only in their closets and families, but in public and solemn assemblies.
2. The worshippers of God began to distinguish themselves: so the margin reads it. Then began men to be called by the name of the Lord, or, to call themselves by it. Now Cain and those that had deserted religion had built a city, and begun to declare for irreligion, and called themselves the sons of men. Those that adhered to God began to declare for him and his worship, and called themselves the sons of God.
NIV footnotes makes this interesting realization...
At that time men began to call on [10] the name of the LORD.
[10] Gen_4:26 Or to proclaim
'At that time men began to proclaim the name of the LORD'.
Jamison, Fausset, and Brown:
Gen 4:26 -
men began to call upon the name of the Lord — rather, by the name of the Lord. God’s people, a name probably applied to them in contempt by the world.
Keil & Delitzsch:
literally to call in (or by) the name of Jehovah, is used for a solemn calling of the name of God.
When applied to men, it denotes invocation (here and Gen_12:8; Gen_13:4, etc.); to God, calling out or proclaiming His name (Exo_33:19; Exo_34:5).
The name of God signifies in general “the whole nature of God, by which He attests His personal presence in the relation into which He has entered with man, the divine self-manifestation, or the whole of that revealed side of the divine nature, which is turned towards man” (Oehler).
We have here an account of the commencement of that worship of God which consists in prayer, praise, and thanksgiving, or in the acknowledgment and celebration of the mercy and help of Jehovah.
While the family of Cainites, by the erection of a city, and the invention and development of worldly arts and business, were laying the foundation for the kingdom of this world; the family of the Sethites began, by united invocation of the name of God of grace, to found and to erect the kingdom of God.
And finally, John Gill's exposition of the verse:
then began men to call upon the name of the Lord; not but that Adam and Abel, and all good men, had called upon the name of the Lord, and prayed to him, or worshipped him before this time personally, and in their families; but now the families of good men being larger, and more numerous, they joined together in social and public worship: or since it may be thought there were public assemblies for religious worship before this time, though it may be they had been neglected, and now were revived with more zeal and vigour; seeing the Cainites incorporating themselves, and joining families together, and building cities, and carrying on their civil and religious affairs among themselves, they also formed themselves into distinct bodies; and not only separated from them, but called themselves by a different name; for so the words may be rendered: "then began men to call themselves", or "to be called by the name of the Lord" (p); the sons of God, as distinct from the sons of men; which distinction may be observed in Gen_6:2 and has been retained more or less ever since: some choose to translate the words, "then began men to call in the name of the Lord" (q); that is, to call upon God in the name of the Messiah, the Mediator between God and man; having now, since the birth of Seth, and especially of Enos, clearer notions of the promised seed, and of the use of him, and his name, in their addresses to God; see Joh_14:13.
Either way, the impression given is entirely that of the early church, after having learned Jesus, being resurrected, was alive again.
It accords perfectly with a new, distinct body of men 'calling themselves after the name of the Lord' Christian[/U] for example, we ourselves being called a 'Holy nation'], distinguishing themselves as 'sons of God', which label the Scriptures perfectly give all of us who call ourselves after the name of the Lord, or, who call upon the name of the Lord ...
And, perhaps, as some of the commentaries noted.... these group of men began to wax hotter in their zeal of worship, acknowledgment, and thanksgiving to the LORD in public places...
This accords perfectly, as we note, shortly after the resurrection, this was characteristic of those who called themselves Sons of God!...
Luke 24:52-53 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.
Either way you slice it, the impression is given that either these men began to call themselves by the name of God, distinguishing themselves as God's own people, or they began to proclaim the name of the Lord, spreading it more bountifully [much akin to the commission we were charged with shortly after His resurrection... taking His gospel to all parts of the earth]
All these commentaries to more fully realize, after the previous connections, it follows in sequential order... that after the Resurrection (Seth), we are told of the men calling upon [or proclaiming] the name of the LORD [Enos].
This fits perfectly with what we are told post-Resurrection, and the 'Good News' [Gospel] being spread [proclaimed].
After this, we are given a few generations in the patriarchal geneaology which have no notes assigned them, and so, we must move on in silence, as the Word of God is silent.
[Genesis 5:21] Next, we come upon Enoch, father of Methuselah.
Firstly, we focus on Enoch only.
[Genesis 5:24] '[I]Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.'
This is after the beginning of the proclaimings of the Lord's name [Enos], and after Seth [Resurrection], naturally... if all this paints a picture of messiah's ministry as previously proposed - we must ask ourselves - what happened after Jesus resurrected, and men began to call upon, or call themselves by, the name of the Lord [or proclaim the name of the Lord]?
Jesus gave the charge to spread His good news and name [Gospel] into all the earth... and then He ascended, for God took him [Acts 1:8-11] and set Him at His right hand [Acts 2:32-33].
This is in sequence with Enoch, as Enoch was taken, because He pleased God - so Jesus was taken post-resurrection, and post-proclamation... because He pleased the Father in Heaven with his ministry fulfilled and atoning redemptive work, thusly, ascending in similar fashion.
[Genesis 5:24] Noting Enoch was the father of Methuselah, Methuselah then was the progeny, or offspring of Enoch [Ascension].
The progeny [product; result], the offspring, of Christ's own ascension [Enoch] was the Church coming into its own, able to then receive the Holy Spirit poured out upon it... and setting in order the times of the Gentiles, and the dispensation of the Church Age of Grace.
[Genesis 5:27] With Methuselah we are given note that he lived to be 969 years old, the oldest man ever recorded in Scripture.
Calculating the genealogies we realize Methuselah, [oldest man living], died the same year, and most likely, same week [or day], as that of the Flood.
In this we need to realize, if all the previous patriarchs showed us clues to painting a picture of messiah's ministry, it makes sense after Enoch [Ascension], we would reach the oldest being ever recorded, Methuselah, as this was a picture of the offspring of Christ's ascension, the Church being set in place... and now having existed for near 2,000 years - it's a near-similar picture of God's grace once more.
This might not be evident at first, until we realize in Methuselah's name was a prophecy, Enoch - naming his son obviously; Enoch apparently had some sort of revelation, and fittingly, warned the people of it through His own offspring Methuselah.
What's the prophecy in Methuselah's name?
Fausset's Bible Dictionary:
Methuselah
("he dies and it (the flood) is sent".) A name given prophetically by Enoch, or given after the event. Phoenician inscriptions use methu or betha ("a man"). The man who lived the longest - 969 years. He died in the year of the flood, possibly by it. It is suggestive that death enters into the name of the longest liver.
His name, in essence, said that it [the judgment; the flood] would come in his death [passing away].
So too with the Church, long-established institute of God, much like Methuselah... both being pictures of God's long-suffering grace [longest living man compared to two thousand years of grace with man]... as also with Noah's preaching righteousness for 120 years prior to the Flood [1 Peter 3:20]... this generation of men were adequately warned.
The fact God would hinge His judgments to be sent only upon this man's passing away, too, shows us a truth - because being the longest living man ever - it proclaims to us the long-suffering patience of God with man [2 Peter 3:9].
This too, is what the church will experience.
As when the church is removed [as in the case of Methuselah], judgment will fall - because we are now living in days of Grace, much like the generation before the Flood were living in their own 'days of Grace'; having the knowledge of the truth being preached [Noah] and prophesied [Methuselah] to them...
Moving on from the Father-Son duo of Enoch [Ascension], and Enoch's product [offspring], namely, Methuselah [Picture of Grace with Man]...
we move through a couple of generations [again, with no note on them] until we hit Noah.
Noah shows us the completion of messiah's ministry, being the 10th from Adam, and concluding the Genesis 5 geneaology of antideluvian patriarchs.
[Genesis 6-9] With Noah, we are shown how he constructed a vessel of salvation to the known world [known as the 'Ark']... through Noah all the world was warned for 120 years, until Methuselah was taken away, then, that same day, Noah entered the ark as the flood rains began to sprinkle.
IMHO, the righteous dead [Methuselah], and the righteous living [Noah] each passing away and the other being 'lifted up' in the Ark with his family of seven - show us a picture of the Resurrection [Rapture], when the righteous dead and righteous living both together will be lifted up, as the age of Grace of the Church will pass away, melding into the days of Judgment [Tribulation, i.e the Flood].
We know from Revelation that Christ has a family of seven, calling them His churches [Revelation 1-3], and each are warned and admonished before this section is concluded and John is 'lifted up' into Heaven [Revelation 4:1], much as the Ark would 'lift up' Noah and his set of seven persons [Genesis 7:17], and Methuselah having completed his divinely alloted task.
As the earth is judged by water, and death covers the face of the deep - Noah and His own are preserved high above the destruction . . . Noah, typifiying Christ, whose name literally means 'Rest'.
After all these things, which beforehand we are told Noah and His family entered into the ark by a single door set in its side (Genesis 7:16) [according to the single door set in the heavens that John the revelator saw] {Revelation 4:1} ...
after all these things, the judgment being complete, we are shown Noah and his family resting upon the Mts. of Ararat [Genesis 8:4], whereby they depart the same single door [Genesis 8:16-19], much according to the picture of Christ returning with all His saints behind him on white horses, constituting the 'Church' as a composite whole [Revelation 19], through the heavens, torn back like a scroll.
After this, it reads Noah made an altar to sacrifice and bless God [Genesis 8:20-9:17].
This immediately shows us what messiah's ministry will be according to when He returns, as the prophesied millennial temple [Ezekiel 40-48] will be built, whereupon sacrifices will resume, and blessings of God will flow.
This carries us through the entire millennial age, beginning from Christ's first advent - thusly, the 10 patriarchs - a picture painted of Messiah's Ministry.
To summarize...
Adam [son of God - [I]Tree]
Abel [son of Man - Blood shed]
Seth [Resurrection; new life]
Enos [Gospel proclamations; distinguished body of men adhering to the Lord's name]
Enoch [Ascension]
Methuselah [Patient Period of Grace; the Church]
Noah [Grace terminating; judgments flowing; Family protected, Altar sacrifices instituted; Tribulation/Millennial Age]Through Seven Lives we are shown clues to messiah's ministry. :):
Joel
December 2nd, 2005, 11:47 AM
But if one of the witnesses will be Moses, he will die a second time by the hand of the AC. I don't know if that's possible. A saved man dies only once (an unsaved man twice, as in the eternal or second death.)
As I said before, men have died twice.
Lazarus, in fact, died twice.
what about Enoch, he didn’t die at all? So, you’ve got at least one person who never died at all and you’ve got Lazarus who died twice, and you not only have Lazarus but a lot of other folks who died twice. In fact anyone who was ever raised from the dead died twice. When Jesus died on the cross it says the graves were opened and all kinds of Old Testament Saints came back to life, so they had to die twice.
Then you have the people that Jesus raised, the daughter of Jairus and the son of the widow of Nain. You have the ones that were raised by Elijah, the prophet from the dead. All of those people died twice. Then you have to answer the question about what about the “rapture”--a whole population of Christians aren’t even going to die once. They’re going to be raptured to heaven.
So, what we assume then, from all of that biblical data is that the statement of Hebrews 9:27 is a general statement to which there are by God’s design, certain exceptions. And we need not fear that. It’s still true that it is appointed unto men once to die. That is the norm. Men die. It is extremely unusual when they don’t die and we can count on death. In fact, in history you can count the people that didn’t die by just counting Enoch and maybe Elijah was translated in a whirlwind, but there are less than a handful out of the millions and millions that have died. And of those who have died twice, that’s also a very small group of people who were raised from the dead and yet in the future there will be a whole group of Christians who will miss death because of the rapture. We’d like to be in that group wouldn’t we? But, we just know that the principle of Hebrews 9 is still true, that men die and they die once and then they face God’s judgment. So we take it as a general principle in that regard.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/70-2-1.htm
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.