Church Problem, is this legal?

[70thWeek]

Currently, my church rents a place to worship on Sundays. To save money we have been holding our Wed. service at the home of a church-goer. Recently, police showed up and said that we were misuing the house and that we would be fined if we continued to have church there. Our pastor contacted the city and we were put in touch with someone who claimed that his office was the only one that could do stuff like that. Anyone know what we should do? We are having service at the home again tomorrow night. (Eventually, we do hope to move)

[Harley]

Currently, my church rents a place to worship on Sundays. To save money we have been holding our Wed. service at the home of a church-goer. Recently, police showed up and said that we were misuing the house and that we would be fined if we continued to have church there. Our pastor contacted the city and we were put in touch with someone who claimed that his office was the only one that could do stuff like that. Anyone know what we should do? We are having service at the home again tomorrow night. (Eventually, we do hope to move)
I'd say if the Pastor contacted the Law Director of the town you are in and he said you were not in violation of any oridinaces then the police have no case. Furthermore, it's not the police who do the fining, it's the courts.

I'd get it in writing and keep meeting.

[Mommy2KandM]

How is it any different then inviting all your friends from church over one evening for fun and fellowship??

What about bible studies.. can they not take place in homes? We sure do them in homes.

I wonder if the issue is parking. I imagine a neighbor complained because the street is filled with cars. I would make sure everyone is respecting the neighbors drive way entrances etc... so not to be an irritant.

[carmen]

I think there may be zoning issues involved.

Many attorneys will do a free first consult. Why not take advantage of that and ask one? Or even call a large church in your area; they may either be able to tell you, or be able to give you someone's number that will give you the answer :nod

[Mommy2KandM]

Are there maybe specific HOA rules for that housing development? That might be the issue.

[Harley]

Most municipalities I have dealt with view a church as a business, therefore the same zoning ordinances apply unless you get a variance.

There may be restrictions on how many cars you can park on your property of the street, there may be issues that deal with "doing business" in your home.

But again, if the City Law Director said it violated no law, get it in writing and proceed as ususal.

[IbeleiveinJesus]

One thing I should add is that if the Police are there, it is probably because one of the neighbors called them.

It could be that the services are irritating a neighbor, and that could be because of noise, lots of cars, people walking accross their grass, etc...

Given what the Bible says regarding how we should treat our neighbors, I might suggest going door to door and talking with folks who are affected by the services, and make sure they are OK with what is going on... and perhaps addressing their concerns if they are not..

-Ted

[antsinmypants]

Are there maybe specific HOA rules for that housing development? That might be the issue.

this is what I'm thinking-- this and compliance with the local Fire Marshall's rulings on exits etc etc...


Document it and check it out with the local and state Home Owner's groups, the subdivision, the rules agreed to on the owners' bill of sale/insurance and all the hoopla...

Check the Zoning Board and see if anything is amiss there....

Otherwise it falls under the jurisdiction of the HOA, Fire Marshall and Zoning.

[Harley]

Speaking of Home Owners Associations - a guy in our church got called on the proverbial carpet by his HOA for parking an RV in his driveway - as RV's go it was rather small, barely larger than a conversion van.

He discovered that the neighbor across the street turned him in. His solution? Park it on the street. On street parking is regulared by the City, is not enforcable by the HOA, and in this case he can only park it on the neighbors side of the steet - right in front of their house!

I love it.

[His Sparrow]

How many people were meeting?

[70thWeek]

about 20 kids or so, plus about 20 adults or more.

One neighbor came and told the person that another neighbor complained. We have been careful about parking. The key is that no driveway was blocked, but to be on the safe side, we are all going to park on other streets. I would like to move, just so we won't be a burden to this family, but come on 2 hours a week shouldn't be enough for someone to complain.

[Gordon b]

When the police show up tell them it's just a party.

[rancherswife]

When the police show up tell them it's just a party.

I think it would be a bad idea for a church to lie to the police. :freaked

[carmen]

I think it would be a bad idea for a church to lie to the police. :freakedYa think? :lol

(Gordon, I have to admit, I thought that too though :heh)

[abkn]

It is probably because there are too many cars on the street. Have the parishioners park around the block.

[Indiana Janz]

When my dad had a little church in the sticks, we'd hold the mid-week service at our house. We lived almost at the end of a dead-end dirt lane, with one neighbour between us and the woods. That one neighbour came over all in a huff one night, complaining about cars blocking his driveway (they weren't) and threatening all sorts of things. My dad talked to him for awhile that night, got to know him over time, and before we knew it, he and his wife were attending the mid-week service themselves. :):

[Singlesis]

I agree, they were probably complaining about the number of cars or something. But reading this I had to think: House-churches being raided by the police... already? Hmmm... what a foretaste, huh?

[greenbrier]

I heard a caller on a radio program once with a similar issue. As I recall, the American Center for Law and Justice (Jay Seculow (sp?)) gave them the advise to contact them and offered to help. Seems right up their alley. I do think however that being sensitive to our neighbors is a must. People in general are so stressed out these days that nearly anything can become a provocation.

[Servant]

I heard a caller on a radio program once with a similar issue. As I recall, the American Center for Law and Justice (Jay Seculow (sp?)) gave them the advise to contact them and offered to help. Seems right up their alley. I do think however that being sensitive to our neighbors is a must. People in general are so stressed out these days that nearly anything can become a provocation.

Hey! :lol I was just getting ready to post about ACLJ! :lol


http://www.aclj.org/

[70thWeek]

I think that lady in whose house we meet already called Jay Sekulow! I actually had the pleasure of meeting him several years ago along with Ann Coulter and David Limbaugh and I appreciate all of the work that he does.

[greenbrier]

They seem to be the one of the few coming to the aid of Christians in the relentless attack of the unbelievers.

[kristine]

I think it would be a bad idea for a church to lie to the police. :freaked



Wait a minute, wouldn't this be considered a "party of church goers?" White lie, perhaps? :heh

Don't mind me -- I'm just being a smart alec. :heh

Continue

[Gordon b]

Originally Posted by rancherswife
I think it would be a bad idea for a church to lie to the police. Ok, Rename the midweek service. Call it Home Fellowship Party or some such thing. They can't stop people from getting together at someones house, I wouldn't think. Some families have Thankgiving dinners with more folks than that.

[70thWeek]

Ok, I went to church last night, but the lights were off and I could see no signs that anyone else was there. I rung the bell, but there was not answer. As far as I knew, we were still meeting there. I don't know what happened. :confused

[Mommy2KandM]

They are trying to ditch you. :heh

[blitzkreig]

You will likely have to check the zoning bylaws. If you are in a "non-charismatic" zoned area you may have to move.


:lol

[blitzkreig]

Ok, I went to church last night, but the lights were off and I could see no signs that anyone else was there. I rung the bell, but there was not answer. As far as I knew, we were still meeting there. I don't know what happened. :confusedMaybe they were raptured and you are left here with us ... :faint

[70thWeek]

Maybe they were raptured and you are left here with us ... :faint

I was thinking about that. Is this support for the partial rapture theory? People who are 15 minutes early to church get to go? :confused (Admin, this is a joke, not support for the partial rapture theory)

[70thWeek]

They are trying to ditch you. :heh

Maybe this is a sign from God. "70th is here, turn out the lights, be silent!"

[blitzkreig]

I was thinking about that. Is this support for the partial rapture theory? People who are 15 minutes early to church get to go? :confused (Admin, this is a joke, not support for the partial rapture theory)I was maybe 12 or so (like 40 years ago) and I came home from school and couldn't find anyone at home ... but the stew was on the stove.

I freaked out.

I just knew they had all gone and been raptured and I was going to have to survive all on my own.

They were actually across the street looking at the neighbour's new car. :doh

I have never been the same since ... :pound

[70thWeek]

I was maybe 12 or so (like 40 years ago) and I came home from school and couldn't find anyone at home ... but the stew was on the stove.

I freaked out.

I just knew they had all gone and been raptured and I was going to have to survive all on my own.

They were actually across the street looking at the neighbour's new car. :doh

I have never been the same since ... :pound

I was in kindergarten. The bus dropped me at home. I went to the door and it was locked. My Mom was always there when I was home. I started screaming. A neighbor lady heard me and took me into her house until my mom came.

[Mommy2KandM]

Maybe this is a sign from God. "70th is here, turn out the lights, be silent!"


Are you a JW now? :heh That is what I tell the kids to do if I don't have the energy to deal with it. :tape

[Mommy2KandM]

I just knew they had all gone and been raptured and I was going to have to survive all on my own.



Well at least you had a hot pot of stew to start out with. :laugh

[blitzkreig]

I was in kindergarten. The bus dropped me at home. I went to the door and it was locked. My Mom was always there when I was home. I started screaming. A neighbor lady heard me and took me into her house until my mom came.I was maybe 7 years old and me and a friend were going down to the neighbourhood paddling pool on our bikes.

Our street was just then getting re-paved.

I was half way there and I fell off into the fresh road oil. :doh

I still went to the paddling pool but of course they sent me home.

When I got home no one was there and so I did what any 7 year old would do and I cried ... so my neighbour lady came over to help ...

She tried to wash the oil off with gasoline ... :freaked

I thought I was going to die. I suppose I am just lucky she didn't decide to just then spark up a cigarette. :flame

When that gas rag hit my butt hole I about screamed so loud that it is a wonder the Lord didn't come back right then and there just to get me from that neighbour lady ...

To make matters worse she realized her mistake and lowered me gently into a "nice" hot bath tub of water ...

:freaked

Took me over a month to heal ...

[Gordon b]

When that gas rag hit my butt hole I about screamed so loud that it is a wonder the Lord didn't come back right then and there just to get me from that neighbour lady ... Don't you just hate it when you get gasoline on your butt hole? I know I do !:pound