"The Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible" [Archive]

View Full Version : "The Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible"

Stephanie

October 30th, 2005, 04:27 AM

Hi, gang...

Okay. Recently I got The Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible.

It's important to note that this is *NOT* the same thing as The Reformation Study Bible (a completely different thing.)

The Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible seemed like a fantastic choice; I really wanted it not only because of the footnotes, but also because it contains the full version of The Westminster Confession of Faith and many other historic creeds and catechisms of the Reformation period - plus full references. It seemed like an excellent resource for study.

Ordinarily I use the Ryrie (combined with using the Life Application, which served me well for many years). I spent several days transcribing allllllllllllllllll of my handwritten notes from the margins of my Ryrie and my Life App and putting them all into the new Bible so I'd have everything in one place. It was a thing of beauty. And writer's cramp. :lol

Then I sat down for a nice long study session.
I decided to hang out in Revelation for a while.

That's when things got a little freaky.

My forehead STILL aches from all the eyebrow arching I did. Is it just me - or are the footnotes just a little bit *creepy*? Does anyone else have The Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible? Anyone else feel like it's... I don't know... tainted or something?

Someone help me. I don't like this feeling I have with this... or maybe I'm just too spoiled by the Ryrie... (except that I need to have the publisher replace my Ryrie because it's DEFECTIVE and has tons of missing pages!)

-Stephanie

edit: typo

Stephanie

October 30th, 2005, 01:05 PM

.......................
.......................
......................
.........
.....................:confused .... ... Anyone? ........ :ranger

......
......
......

cindyl1

October 30th, 2005, 01:28 PM

I'm sorry...I've never heard of it....

mayeem

October 30th, 2005, 03:42 PM

I'm sorry...I've never heard of it....
Me neither, I have a NASB version Ryrie study Bible and love it!!!!

Stephanie

November 4th, 2005, 04:20 AM

I'm bumping this up - just in case. I figure that I can't possibly be the only person on the planet with this Bible. :lol

cindyl1

November 4th, 2005, 10:19 AM

LOL darn I was hopiing someone else would have posted that knew about it too!

JIM

November 5th, 2005, 11:02 PM

Stepahnie,
You wrote:Then I sat down for a nice long study session.
I decided to hang out in Revelation for a while.
That's when things got a little freaky.
My forehead STILL aches from all the eyebrow arching I did. Is it just me - or are the footnotes just a little bit *creepy*? Does anyone else have The Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible? Anyone else feel like it's... I don't know... tainted or something?

May I ask what was "freaky"?
I use this study bible and I love it. I come from a reformed perspective on theology so for me I find nothing freaky in it. Granted the eschatology presented in it will not come from a dispensationalist viewpoint but I would not characterize it as freaky. Just a different viewpoint on a nonessential area of christianity.

Jim

Stephanie

November 9th, 2005, 06:27 PM

Hi Jim!

Well, it's hard to put into words. I was reading the footnotes, and I was expecting what I usually see in study Bibles - basically, I'm used to seeing footnotes that give an indication of what various interpretations are among people of differing theological viewpoints. For instance, someone who is pre-trib would read a certain verse in one way, while someone who is pre-wrath would read it another way... so the Ryrie, as an example, would give both views. It might be obviously in agreement with one interpretation over another, but it will give both views. The Spirit of the Reformation Bible seems to give very bare details in areas that are said to be end-times related, and in some cases footnotes don't even exist in areas which are often primary examples cited for one view or another.

If a person only owned this particular Bible, and if they weren't well informed about the different ways theologians interpret the scripture, a person may not really understand all the possibilities of how the scripture discusses life now and in the future. I understand that this particular version is geared toward people who might be, as an example, a PCA Presbyterian (I'm PCA) - but we're not the only people who are interested in a Bible that contains the Westminster Confession and so forth. I'd think they'd want to have this Bible cover all the bases so that anyone who is a Protestant believer would find it helpful.

I don't know if I've explained any of this properly!

-Stephanie

buzzardhut

November 9th, 2005, 06:31 PM

Stephanie

November 9th, 2005, 07:08 PM

I want to add another comment to the one above.

Concerning my original comment where I said that the experience of reading it was 'creepy' and I almost felt like it was 'tainted or something' - I feel like I should explain that to give further information about my impressions here... because this whole thing *does* concern me.

The thing is, I really **want** to *like* this particular study Bible. Naturally, it's a Bible, so of course I love it in THAT sense.

The part that seemed creepy and made me feel almost like I was holding a tainted object (which I acknowledge is completely based in emotional reaction and of course doesn't have any bearing on anything, other than as a way to describe how the version's seeming lack of well-roundedness affected me) - I'll try to explain.

When I bought this Bible, my intention was to use it as my primary study Bible. I have two others - a Life Application and a Ryrie. As I said before, I put all of my notes into the new Bible, and so I was prepared to put the other Bibles on a shelf and keep this one out for regular use. When I made the purchase at Amazon, something that particular day had happened in the news which made me think about the reputation of Christianity in recent years (the negative aspects such as the Ten Commandments statue being removed from the Alabama courthouse and so forth)... and I recall thinking, "Well, if the day ever comes that people aren't even allowed to *have* Bibles anymore, I hope that they don't take this one away" (because I expected that when it arrived, I'd adore it. I love the Westminster Confession, and to think that it and other documents would be right there at my fingertips was completely fantastic to me).

I also thought about the fact that if I was ever in a situation of needing to teach a potential believer or new believer about the faith, that this version would be a great teaching tool.

Well, fast forward to the book's arrival - and after I transcribed my notes and began my study, I looked back on those previous thoughts and thought about them in connection with what I was seeing on the pages. I realized that it would be very difficult - (if I only had access to one study Bible) - to sit down with a new/potential believer and discuss the period of time leading toward the return of Jesus. I could **verbally** explain the various ways Christians interpret John's vision, but I would *not* be able to point to the page and its footnotes to visually show a person what those interpretations are. However, if I used a Ryrie or Life Application, it would be obvious that these are well-known, common ideas discussed among Christians, and so I'd have proof that I wasn't just pulling ideas out of the air.

That would be a very important situation, especially when talking with a potential believer as opposed to a new believer. (I say that because often they'll want to see with their own eyes what the footnotes say so that they can read a paragraph of Scripture, then go down to the notes for clarification, then go to relevant and/or referring parts of Scripture in other chapters or books to further examine what is being taught about the particular subject.)

To me, if a Bible is going to offer extremely detailed notes for in-depth study, if a particular subject is generally viewed in three different ways depending on perspective, for example, then I think that the editors should be sure to include those three views. Naturally, a person could pick Scripture apart and come up with a hundred ways to interpret something if they really wanted to, so of course I'm not saying that study Bibles should be obsessive-compulsive about it. But when it comes to important subjects having to do with core beliefs which tend to be viewed by large numbers of believers in a few specific ways, then I think that makes those views important enough to mention.

That way, if a person is learning these things for the first time, they can read the Bible, study the footnotes for clarification, and be able to really make up their own mind about what they believe. If an important subject is left uncovered in the footnotes or if only one viewpoint is given - and given in such a way that it appears that there *aren't* other common viewpoints, then the reader doesn't have enough information to go on.

I don't have as much concern about the footnotes in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, the letters, and so forth. But because of Revelation being so visionary, it's a tough book to tackle. I think that anyone studying it, regardless of their familiarity with it, benefits from well-written notes with substantial information given. I have read it so many times I can't even begin to tell you how many, but I still rely heavily on footnotes to help me keep things straight. I don't rely very much at all on footnotes in other areas of the Testaments, but when it comes to Revelation, it's different particularly when I'm trying to explain things to someone or answer a question. And of course, when I'm trying to study something for my own learning.

This situation struck me in a way that bothered me because (I hope nobody misunderstands me here, because this *isn't* the best way to describe it, but it's the closest way I can think of) - it seemed sort of sinister in a way to leave out certain information, or for certain verses or passages to have no notes at all when they really need to include notes lest a newcomer think that that portion of the text is so obscure that even learned theologians have no comments to make there.

I hope I've expressed all of this at least to a degree that you have some idea of what I mean.

-Stephanie

JIM

November 9th, 2005, 07:10 PM

Buzzardhut,
You wrote:
Is that the R.C. Sproul Bible?
If so.. it is a whack job.
Get a new Ryrie or John MacArthur Study Bible

Why is it a "whack job".

Jim

JIM

November 9th, 2005, 07:19 PM

Stephanie,
You wrote:
To me, if a Bible is going to offer extremely detailed notes for in-depth study, if a particular subject is generally viewed in three different ways depending on perspective, for example, then I think that the editors should be sure to include those three views. Naturally, a person could pick Scripture apart and come up with a hundred ways to interpret something if they really wanted to, so of course I'm not saying that study Bibles should be obsessive-compulsive about it. But when it comes to important subjects having to do with core beliefs which tend to be viewed by large numbers of believers in a few specific ways, then I think that makes those views important enough to mention.

The whole idea of this study bible as indicated in its "title" is to convey the teachings of the reformation. Even if the study notes were to convey other ideas it could never do so adequately especially when say discussing predestination, particular redemption etc.... So therefore, in my opinion, it does the job it was designed for. Conveying the teaching of the reformation which is something that the vast majority of study bibles do not do. And I am sure that was the audience that this study bible was geared to.

Jim

Stephanie

November 9th, 2005, 07:47 PM

Stephanie,

The whole idea of this study bible as indicated in its "title" is to convey the teachings of the reformation. Even if the study notes were to convey other ideas it could never do so adequately especially when say discussing predestination, particular redemption etc.... So therefore, in my opinion, it does the job it was designed for. Conveying the teaching of the reformation which is something that the vast majority of study bibles do not do. And I am sure that was the audience that this study bible was geared to.

Jim

Hi there, Jim...
(It's so nice to have someone to talk to about this. Thank you!)

Yes, I understand that this study Bible is focused on the teachings of the Reformation... but the thing is, the Reformation was the birth of what is now (and what has been) the Protestant branch of the church. And that Protestant branch is made up of countless denominations of all kinds. The variety of viewpoints concerning Revelation that I'm talking about are *all* viewpoints of those of us who are post-Reformation believers and who fall under the umbrella classification of Protestantism. So I would think that this study Bible would contain footnotes that show the beliefs of Protestants. Not just one viewpoint, but varying Protestant viewpoints concerning Revelation, for example.

See what I mean? I don't think the intention of the study Bible was to simply show what the original Reformers believed - but to provide the original documents of the Reformation and to provide a Bible for those who are Protestant - and who want to have those original documents at hand for in-depth study.

That's why I don't understand why they'd leave out the primary ways people iinterpret Revelation. It wouldn't take too many pages up or anything; other study Bibles include a few sentences here and there to show the different viewpoints, so I can't imagine why this one wouldn't do the same. It wouldn't be including "other ideas" - they'd still be Protestant ideas.

-Stephanie

Harley

November 9th, 2005, 09:22 PM

Buzzardhut,
You wrote:
Is that the R.C. Sproul Bible?
If so.. it is a whack job.
Get a new Ryrie or John MacArthur Study Bible

Why is it a "whack job".

Jim
"Whack-job" - Noun
1. anyone who does not believe what I believe
2. to be hit with an open hand -

Harley

November 9th, 2005, 09:26 PM

pilgrimian

November 9th, 2005, 10:19 PM

I guess you can't judge a book by its cover.

Stephanie, is there anything in the editors preface that gives you any indication what branch of Protestantism they are writing for.

Not that only Reformed Theologians have claim over the term Reformation - but when I saw the title I assumed it would be geared toward the beliefs of the Reformers and Reformed Theology.

BTW - I like Sproul!

Yes, and no.

I routinely go back and forth with a fellow at our congregation about this very issue. Sproul is a Believer, and therefore a Brother in the Lord...but his understanding of Israel is skewed. I won't call it a whack-job, but he does twist some things into T.U.L.I.P. It is frustrating, because when talking about issues I find myself having to narrow back into the discussion...and chip away at what may well be logical reasoning--yet steps away from specifically Biblical foundations. Yes, Sproul has written some wonderful things. He has a great series on the Holiness of God. His eschatology and Israelology leaves much to be desired. I'm not desiring that he agree with me...I just don't agree with his treatment of some Scripture. He allegorizes when he wants to, and I find that inconsistent.

This particular Bible I don't know about, though. I believe the Bible this fellow uses who I will banter back and forth with is the Geneva Study Bible. I believe that Sproul is commentary on that one.

Ryrie has a decent commentary...I'm personally a fan of The Frucht (http://arielc.org/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AMC&Category_Code=PCD).

Blessings,
Matthew

cindyl1

November 10th, 2005, 01:21 AM

My most favorite Bible!

NIV Prophecy Marked Reference Study Bible

The study Bible for Christians who want to know what God's Word says about the future. The notes are written by noted prophecy enthusiast, Dr. Grant Jeffrey

Four color-highlighted key themes: Prophecy, Holy Spirit, Salvation, and Temporal Blessings

In-text notes and articles provide clear understanding of crucial prophetic passages and concepts

Marked reference system color-highlights 4 key themes for quick location: Prophecy (blue), Holy Spirit (dark green), Salvation (red), and Temporal Blessings (light green).

Textual notes at bottom of page unlock the significance of specific verses and provide cross references to associated, larger articles.

30 articles, up to three pages in length, provide in-depth understanding of crucial prophetic passages and concepts.

Introductory articles introduce prophetic terms and address a broad scope of topics that will help the reader to better understand biblical prophecy.

Opening article carefully reviews the primary theories of prophetic interpretation so the student of prophecy can understand the reasons behind the views of different denominational groups.

15 two-color, in-text charts; 6 two-color, in-text maps; and various detailed illustrations give an instant sense of the big prophetic picture and the locations at which biblical events took place.

NIV text-accurate, up-to-date, combining readability and graceful style.

Center-column cross-reference system.

Concordance helps readers find passages and conduct topical studies.

16 standard full-color maps and a map index in the back of the Bible.

A harmony of the Gospels.

Subject index.

General editor Grant R. Jeffrey.

http://www.zondervanchurchsource.com/bibles/0310908620.htm

Oh they have this Bible in the KJV as well if you prefer it. I have a KJV already, but love the way this Bible is set up! I've had mine now for about 6 or 7 years, and although I've gotten new bibles during that time, I always go back to this one, cause I haven't found one better then it!

Oh! Check this out!!! If you scroll down it'll show you some of the pages!!!!

http://www.grantjeffrey.com/bible.htm

If you do get to check one out, especially check out the first pages after the presentation pages. There's a table of contents, and then a table of contents for the special articles--after the introductions; Then and this is what I wanted you to see: check out the page that says Explanation of color markings and chain of reference! After that page the next part I really want you to see is the 4 pages after that and THEN the next whole section that divides up the chain references for you! Those to me are what make this Bible so absolutely fantastic!!!! Of course it has all the standard stuff too like a concordance and all of that.

Bruce H

November 22nd, 2005, 01:52 PM

Hi, gang...

Okay. Recently I got The Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible.

......

Ordinarily I use the Ryrie

That's when things got a little freaky.

M
Someone help me. I don't like this feeling I have with this... or maybe I'm just too spoiled by the Ryrie... (except that I need to have the publisher replace my Ryrie because it's DEFECTIVE and has tons of missing pages!)

-Stephanie

edit: typo

Stephanie:

I would have replied sooner, but had to wait until my account was activated. I have used the Ryrie study Bible, and later the Criswell (Believer's Study Bible) which I like a lot more. The Pratt and Sproul re writes of the 1995 New Geneva, are unabashedly reformed in outlook. Remember, Spurgeon was not the only reformed Baptist around, there are many others. It is interesting to read varying points of view on the end times, but not all the interpreters agree on which ones should be included. I like The Spirit of The Reformation (Pratt) better than The Reformation Study Bible (Sproul) for its organization, changes in notes and maps, and the inclusion of formative protestant documents. A friend who has done a lot of Greek study says that the translation Sproul uses is actually more faithful than the NIV in Pratt. I've taught Sunday School for a long time, first in KJV (OLD Scofield) and later in the NKJV (BSB then NGSB), but most of the students have used the Life Application Study Bible in NIV. So now I have the same translation, and the notes that I prefer.
It's good to remember that men and women of sincere faith will disagree on some things. The reformed and non reformed traditions have a lot more in common than they disagree with each other on. You shouldn't feel slimy reading Calvin or Luther or Wesley. They provide good material for mature christian thinkers to consider, pray about and use what works. They all played crucial, if imperfect, roles in the growth of the church. But who then is perfect? There is only one.

Best,

Bruce

Bruce H

November 22nd, 2005, 01:56 PM

I guess you can't judge a book by its cover.

is there anything in the editors preface that gives you any indication what branch of Protestantism they are writing for.
BTW - I like Sproul!

RC Sproul is a Presbyterian (PCA) and has taught at Presbyterian Seminaries.

AnyDayNow

November 22nd, 2005, 03:53 PM

RC Sproul is a Presbyterian (PCA) and has taught at Presbyterian Seminaries.

And a preterist. The problem is not just with "non" pre-trib editors or notation. Be thankful you didn't get a Dake Annotated Bible, Stephanie. :nod The guy was pre-trib, but what a nut case!

Lexie

November 22nd, 2005, 04:23 PM

AnyDayNow :lol

A 79 year old pre-trib dispensationist told me to buy a hebrew, greek, king James key study bible from AMG publishers. It cost me 70 dollars. I also have my NASV and a Jewish new testament. Some bibles commentaries replace the :kev You have to be careful, I gave a drake away.

Harley

November 22nd, 2005, 08:12 PM

Lexie

November 22nd, 2005, 09:02 PM

Hi Harley,

It is written by David H. Stern, I saw it on Zola Levitt show. Bought it on amazon.

Harley

November 23rd, 2005, 09:52 AM

checked it out myself... interesting. i suppose if your audience is jewish this would be a good thing.

[the contrarian in me thinks that if rick warren had published something that exchanged "cross" for "execution pole" there'd be hell to pay... :D:]

AnyDayNow

November 23rd, 2005, 12:07 PM

AnyDayNow :lol

A 79 year old pre-trib dispensationist told me to buy a hebrew, greek, king James key study bible from AMG publishers. It cost me 70 dollars...

I bought a NASB version of the same Bible...your's must have been Moroccan leather...mine was hard cover and cost me $33.00. :lol I still have my Dake. I have it all marked up and keep it for "show and tell". The only way I would get rid of it is by donating it to the local refuse company.