Death Penalty

[JustGodsChild]

We know that Life is sacred. And we know that God values life. Which is why abortion is wrong. But what does the Bible say about the death penalty? I don't really know so that is why I am asking. And also looking for personal opinions.

Edited to fix typo :D

[JustGodsChild]

No opinions? no information? :confused

[ConservPride]

There were 3 being crucified on crosses, which was the death penalty in Jesus' time.

One of the guilty thieves said to Jesus, "If thou be Christ, save thyself and us." The other thief rebuked him saying, "Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we justly indeed; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss."

In the case of abortion, the baby has done nothing amiss. But in the case of the death penalty, a trial has determined guilt on the party receiving the punishment. If they are justly condemned, then I have no problem with the death penalty being enforced. However, there have been over 100 cases where people have been released from death row. That doesn't necesarily mean they were innocent though. Sometimes it is just improper court proceedings.

Anyway, as we can see from the example in the Bible, Jesus said to the one thief, "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
So we know that even a condemned thief can receive salvation.
The other thief just wanted to save himself, even after knowing his deeds were deserving of condemnation. He wasn't repentant, but the thief that rebuked him was. He acknowledged his sins and knew he was worthy of death.

I think God has more of a problem with INNOCENT blood being shed. Here are some verses:

Deu 19:10 That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance, and [so] blood be upon thee.

Deu 21:9 So shalt thou put away the [guilt of] innocent blood from among you, when thou shalt do [that which is] right in the sight of the LORD.

2Ki 21:16 Moreover Manasseh shed innocent blood very much, till he had filled Jerusalem from one end to another; beside his sin wherewith he made Judah to sin, in doing [that which was] evil in the sight of the LORD.

2Ki 24:4 And also for the innocent blood that he shed: for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; which the LORD would not pardon.

Psa 94:21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood.

Psa 106:38 And shed innocent blood, [even] the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.


Pro 6:16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Jer 7:6 [If] ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

Jer 22:3 Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.


Jer 26:15 But know ye for certain, that if ye put me to death, ye shall surely bring innocent blood upon yourselves, and upon this city, and upon the inhabitants thereof: for of a truth the LORD hath sent me unto you to speak all these words in your ears.

Joe 3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence [against] the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

[BloodoftheLamb]

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Pretty much demanding the Death Penalty for murder, the way I read it.

[pilgrimian]

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Pretty much demanding the Death Penalty for murder, the way I read it.

Yes, the Noahic Covenant is pretty clear, eh?

[atad]

We know that Life is sacred. And we know that God values life. Which is why abortion is wrong. But what does the Bible say about the death penalty? I don't really know so that is why I am asking. And also looking for personal opinions.

Edited to fix typo :D
The death penalty is absolutely wrong. I find it fascinating how so many Christians are for it, and generally are the ones who keep it in existence. And on the other hand oppose abortion saying all life is sacred. One big fat hypocracy.

[IheartJesus]

Right on, atad :nod

[BloodoftheLamb]

The death penalty is absolutely wrong. I find it fascinating how so many Christians are for it, and generally are the ones who keep it in existence. And on the other hand oppose abortion saying all life is sacred. One big fat hypocracy.

This thread is about Biblical support for it, not a Christians opinion.

I dont recall Jesus telling the men next to him they were being treated unfairly.


If you are calling God a hypocrite you need to comment in Apologetics.

[cinlynn]

I think the scriptures are clear on this issue.

A man, who was friends with a young girl's dad comes to the door and knocks one morning, while the girl is getting ready for school. The girl answers. She knows this man, and isn't afraid.. she should have been. He comes in, and attacks the girl. He rapes her. He strangles her until she looses consciousness.. When she comes to.. he rapes her again. Again, he squeezes the life from her, until she is unconscious.. again.. when she regains consciousness .. he rapes her, again.. It happens over and over. Finally.. She is dead. He rapes her dead body one more time, and then.. he slits her throat. He has to make sure she is DEAD! This girl is only 13. Lives in a rural area.. and is innocent of the 'world' around her... Sick yet? Are you disgusted??

This happened! In my county. Now, NC tax payers will support this man. We will pay for his medical expenses. (I can't afford that for my own family). We will clothe him and feed him. He will be entertained, and given the best our society has to offer.

What does the widowed father get? Nothing..Except... A dead daughter, and a broken heart.

Yeah, I believe the death penalty is a good thing in certain situations.

What would you do with a man like this? Comb the scriptures for yourself.. see what He has to say about it.

[Van Helsing]

We, in The Netherlands (and in the whole of the E.U.) we don't know the death penalty. I'm not really sure if I'm pro or contra. When it is absolutely sure that someone murdered someone else in cold blood, I can imagine the death penalty. But when are we really sure? I hear about people in the U.S. who were to be executed but were freed by lawyers who came with DNA proof of their innocence. That gives me the creeps. If an innocent man is executed, the government is a murderer. Should we then execute the government? :confused

Overhere, a few years back two men where arrested and jailed becouse of the raping and murdering of a woman. They have been in jail for several years... untill DNA proved their innocence. I mean, when I heard they arrested the murderers of this woman, I could have agreed with the death penalty...

[Mindenite]

Incarcerate them all and let God sort them out :D:

[engrmatt]

I'm originally from Texas, so I think I don't need to say anymore on the death penalty.

[Ladybug]

This thread is about Biblical support for it, not a Christians opinion.

I dont recall Jesus telling the men next to him they were being treated unfairly.


If you are calling God a hypocrite you need to comment in Apologetics.

Piper did ask for personal opinions. ;):

[BloodoftheLamb]

Piper did ask for personal opinions. ;):


My bad....:doh: redface

Certain personal opinions still would belong in apologetics though....

[BloodoftheLamb]

Piper did ask for personal opinions. ;):


My bad....:doh: :redface

If the person is not a saved Christian would their response belong in this thread?

[blitzkreig]

What do you think of the death penalty for somebody caught working on a Saturday?

Num 15:32-36
(32) And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
(33) And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
(34) And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
(35) And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
(36) And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.:B:


:faint

[Enoch]

I have been confused on this issue since I was a child. I dont like abortion and I dont like the death penalty.

I use this Scripture as a refference...

Matthew 5
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

Over the years, I've come to believe this is on a personal level. In short, I can't just drag someone out and wack them for something they did to me. I have to call the law and let the justice department deal with them. Whatever they find I must accept it.

For years, I never realized the political polarities involved in this issue. Liberals normally support abortion and oppose the death penalty, conservatives are the opposite. Seems to me, it should be both for or against.

May God Bless You,
Enoch

[LaMontre]

The death penalty is absolutely wrong. I find it fascinating how so many Christians are for it, and generally are the ones who keep it in existence. And on the other hand oppose abortion saying all life is sacred. One big fat hypocracy.

Joh 18:11 - Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

The crucifixion (capital punishment) was by the will of the Father.

Ro 13:4 - For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The powers that be are given that power by God to execute judgement against them that commit evil. That obviously includes capital punishment.

Ro 13:2 - Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

That judgement does not have to be capital punishment I grant you, but what else is justice for them that have commited murder?

As Christians we are all certainly advocates for Christian forgiveness. But what do you believe would be the motivation of a person who is not Christian? I mean the whole world is not saved.

As Christians we like to believe ourselves to be "above the fray" regarding feelings of revenge against those who have wronged us, even if they have killed our loved ones. That is, (most often) in theory anyway? And perhaps this is as it should be? But does everyone feel that way? Hardly. If you took 100 random people who had never had such an attrocity committed against them, and 100 random people who had, and let them vote on the death penalty, I wonder what the result would be?

My point is that the penalty should always fit the crime. Capital punishment may offend the sensabilities of those who have never had need to utilize it, but more often than not, surviving victims of murder (the victims families) will feel that justice was indeed served by it.

And that, after all, is (or should be) the goal of any good justice system.

To provide "justice for all".

If not, you can end up with vigilanteism. And from that perspective (in some small way) capital punishment does reduce crime.

[roadrunner570]

Here is a passage worth looking at:

Ro 13:3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
Ro 13:4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

I see this as a mandate for governments to protect the law abiding citizens, using the sword if necessary.

[carmen]

I see this as a mandate for governments to protect the law abiding citizens, using the sword if necessary.:thumb

Sometimes I think things get muddied because we tend to mix what God demands of individuals and apply that to governmental responsbility. God says it's wrong for individuals to murder (including abortion). But He does say that authorities (including governments) are put in place by His will, and that we are to submit to those authorities as long as they don't ask us to go against His will.

I guess what I'm saying is that the government wielding the death penalty isn't the same as a person killing someone. God gave that authority to the government Himself.

[StinkerBell]

Personally I think abortion and the death penalty are two different issues...

One is about murdering a person who for one has not sinned nor has commited a crime...

Whereas the death penalty is given to a person who has commited a sin or crime and who is old enough to know better. And is the creator of their own sin through free will.

[antitox]

Joh 18:11 - Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

The crucifixion (capital punishment) was by the will of the Father.

Ro 13:4 - For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The powers that be are given that power by God to execute judgement against them that commit evil. That obviously includes capital punishment.

Ro 13:2 - Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

That judgement does not have to be capital punishment I grant you, but what else is justice for them that have commited murder?

As Christians we are all certainly advocates for Christian forgiveness. But what do you believe would be the motivation of a person who is not Christian? I mean the whole world is not saved.

As Christians we like to believe ourselves to be "above the fray" regarding feelings of revenge against those who have wronged us, even if they have killed our loved ones. That is, (most often) in theory anyway? And perhaps this is as it should be? But does everyone feel that way? Hardly. If you took 100 random people who had never had such an attrocity committed against them, and 100 random people who had, and let them vote on the death penalty, I wonder what the result would be?

My point is that the penalty should always fit the crime. Capital punishment may offend the sensabilities of those who have never had need to utilize it, but more often than not, surviving victims of murder (the victims families) will feel that justice was indeed served by it.

And that, after all, is (or should be) the goal of any good justice system.

To provide "justice for all".

If not, you can end up with vigilanteism. And from that perspective (in some small way) capital punishment does reduce crime.

I stand by this as well. Justice isn't justice if retribution is not in balance with the crime committed.
If there is no fear of the law, there will be no deterrent to evil.

[BloodoftheLamb]

What about the person who is killed by a murderer released from prison, or behind bars?
That blood is on the hands of anti death penalty types imo.

[antitox]

What about the person who is killed by a murderer released from prison, or behind bars?
That blood is on the hands of anti death penalty types imo.

Good point.

[roadrunner570]

Well, if you have no death penalty, or even a weak one the way we have in this country, you have a society in which the good live in fear of the evil and not the other way around. Which is a very sad state to be in, but the state we're in nonetheless.

[Enoch]

What about the person who is killed by a murderer released from prison, or behind bars?
That blood is on the hands of anti death penalty types imo.

And the people that released them are innocent??!! What kind of backwater guilt trip you laying on people with that line??? IU'm astonished at the melodrama I see sometimes, if anyone THE MURDERER has the blood on his hands, he did the crime and he didnt repent and he killed again, got let out because someone cries about tax money feeding him, so they TOO are to blame then under your philosophy!!

Oh how bout his mom, she raised him, she gets a blame mark also right? Let's not forget the evil Television moguls, surely they halped warped his mind.

Come on, he's accounatble for the crime and you cannot sfhit blame towards anyone who does or does not disagree with a form of punishment. If that's the case, then those who are against abortion and talke his mom out of it are too blame also.

This backdoor guilt logic is incredible sometimes. It's like you arent supposed to have an opinion about anything lest you are responsible for the rising of the antiChrist!!

May God Bless You,
Enoch

[antitox]

If one is not dealt in equity for his crime, then it only perpetuates the spread of crime and its continuance. If a man is in prison for what he should have been executed for, then where do you think the guilt lies when he murders again in prison?

[cenimo]

From http://www.geocities.com/a_christian_conservative/

God instituted Capital Punishment for the crime of murder (Genesis 9:5-6), which was singled out as an attack upon God himself and the most serious offense. There were 36 separate offenses throughout the Old Testament (Book of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, & Deuteronomy) that were punishable by death including Murder (no pity), rape, sacrificing to false gods, and so on. We can find instances of execution being carried out in the Bible (e.g., Leviticus 24:10-16). It was practiced both in ancient Israel (as reflected in the Old Testament) and in Judea in the first century (as reflected in the New Testament). Execution was given theological justification, both in the Old & New Testament. The Pentateuchal rationale for capital punishment was not basically in terms of societal order, and thus modern utilitarian values (e.g., does it deter?) have no bearing on the validity of the biblical attitude toward the penalty even though the Bible states it does deter (Deuteronomy 19:20; also see: Eccles. 8:11). The motive for capital punishment was not human desire for vengeance (retribution), and thus modern theological abolitionists on that basis cannot criticize it. There is not a verse in the Bible in either the Old or New Testament that overtly departs from the consensus on the topic. There are no theological stances in either testament (be they forgiveness of enemies, love, non-vengeance, etc.) that may be taken as an implicit challenge to capital punishment. The Bible distinguishes killing in battle, or in self-defense, or in accident, or as execution, from murder and negligent homicide (which alone merit execution).

Some Christians pretend that Jesus Christ broke with the traditions of the Old Testament or take the position that he replaced it, but this couldn't be further from the truth as Jesus himself explained during the Sermon on the Mount. This would also include capital punishment, they say, which was repeatedly sanctioned in the Old Testament. Christ said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

[blitzkreig]

Cenimo your article is good ... except the Gentiles were never given the Law.

Oh ... And except it seems to ignore the fact that we are in this weird era which Paul called a "mystery" ... not known by the prophets ... which he called "The Dispensation of the Grace of God".

In this era the law ... all Israel as a matter of fact ... are aside until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

The Millennial Kingdom will yes be ruled by a rod of iron. So he is right there.

But to apply the Law to day would be a tragic mistake ... stoning your neighbour to death on Saturday morning because he is out mowing his lawn, is not the way we are to live in this era.

:twitch

[LaMontre]

And the people that released them are innocent??!! What kind of backwater guilt trip you laying on people with that line??? IU'm astonished at the melodrama I see sometimes, if anyone THE MURDERER has the blood on his hands, he did the crime and he didnt repent and he killed again, got let out because someone cries about tax money feeding him, so they TOO are to blame then under your philosophy!!

Oh how bout his mom, she raised him, she gets a blame mark also right? Let's not forget the evil Television moguls, surely they halped warped his mind.

Come on, he's accounatble for the crime and you cannot sfhit blame towards anyone who does or does not disagree with a form of punishment. If that's the case, then those who are against abortion and talke his mom out of it are too blame also.

This backdoor guilt logic is incredible sometimes. It's like you arent supposed to have an opinion about anything lest you are responsible for the rising of the antiChrist!!

May God Bless You,
Enoch

I think BloodoftheLamb's point must be taken in context of American government, you know, of the people, for the people, and BY the people?

It is the people in America who are against capital punishment who press for, and vote for, elected officials to ban the death penalty.

Unfortunately, many of these officials also press to remove prayer and any mention of God from our society, so that our jails are now full to overflowing with murderers who have NOT been executed because, perhaps in that particular state, there is no death penalty.

And so early release for anything less than "life without parole" is common place.

[TonyLee]

The death penalty is absolutely wrong. I find it fascinating how so many Christians are for it, and generally are the ones who keep it in existence. And on the other hand oppose abortion saying all life is sacred. One big fat hypocracy.

This is not a valid comparison. You are comparing someone who has committed a capital crime to someone who has not been born yet. What crime against others has the unborn committed?

[BloodoftheLamb]

And the people that released them are innocent??!! What kind of backwater guilt trip you laying on people with that line??? IU'm astonished at the melodrama I see sometimes, if anyone THE MURDERER has the blood on his hands, he did the crime and he didnt repent and he killed again, got let out because someone cries about tax money feeding him, so they TOO are to blame then under your philosophy!!

Oh how bout his mom, she raised him, she gets a blame mark also right? Let's not forget the evil Television moguls, surely they halped warped his mind.

Come on, he's accounatble for the crime and you cannot sfhit blame towards anyone who does or does not disagree with a form of punishment. If that's the case, then those who are against abortion and talke his mom out of it are too blame also.

This backdoor guilt logic is incredible sometimes. It's like you arent supposed to have an opinion about anything lest you are responsible for the rising of the antiChrist!!

May God Bless You,
Enoch

Its not backdoor when you have lived it, and suffered it.

My mother was murdered in cold blood by someone let out of jail on parole.

I fully well hold those people as partially responsible.

[toddlemom]

I notice our friend Atad hasn't been back :confused

Anyway ... my theory is, some crimes are so brutal and it's so obvious who committed the crime and why, the death penalty is called for.

However ... it honestly does not seem fairly applied and sometimes there IS doubt.

What you see and hear in court really reveals the fallen nature of man IMHO. When I worked at the newspaper and covered some court cases I felt :twitch kind of ill at what people do.

ysic
ann

[Enoch]

Its not backdoor when you have lived it, and suffered it.

My mother was murdered in cold blood by someone let out of jail on parole.

I fully well hold those people as partially responsible.

Blood,

I have also suffered some pretty horrible injustices. Not once did I say to let a criminal out of jail in the first place.

Btw - I'm not going to run to a pm here - don't ever send me another PM like you did. Got something like that to say to me, say it out in the open for all to see please.

[Enoch]

Blood,

I posted in the moment, please forgive me. More important in this is your loss and your feelings about this. Please ignore my comments, it's taken me alot of time and prayer to curb my temper and I still have alot of room to grow.

May God Bless You,
Enoch

[carmen]

Nice post, Enoch :hug

[antsinmypants]

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Pretty much demanding the Death Penalty for murder, the way I read it.


Yep!

The death penalty is absolutely wrong. I find it fascinating how so many Christians are for it, and generally are the ones who keep it in existence. And on the other hand oppose abortion saying all life is sacred. One big fat hypocracy.


No, actually this is quite incorrect. YHVH set in place that if a man sheds another man's blood, that he is to pay for that sin by his death.
There are also laws for damages to property and persons, in that compensation should be paid. This is the basic setup our American Forefathers put in place in the Constitution for everyone else, straight out of the Torah.

I don't need "opinion" I need Scripture. Scripture says if someone does x, or y- that person is to meet the death penalty. However, innocent blood is not to be shed. A Beit Din (House of Judges) is to be held for each community and people are to judge whether or not something was done, and the sentence of the person at hand.

There are specific things written in scripture for specific sins, including murder, and provisions for (that is PRO) Death Penalty.

And if you think about it, when it comes to our spiritual lives, YHVH has already for us either life eternal, or the eternal death penalty. Hypocritical? I think not. I would be careful about editing G-d's word to say what one wants it to say.

I have been confused on this issue since I was a child. I dont like abortion and I dont like the death penalty.

I use this Scripture as a refference...

Matthew 5
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

Over the years, I've come to believe this is on a personal level. In short, I can't just drag someone out and wack them for something they did to me. I have to call the law and let the justice department deal with them. Whatever they find I must accept it.

Exactly... Not only that, but people tend to believe that it means literally plucking out someone's eye or knockin' someone's tooth out, however it's compensation we're talking about here, not toothless and half blind Israelis. :lol
This is about personal harms and injustices, and having the perfect patience and love of G-d working through oneself.

Remember that there are two commandments that everything hinges on in this world. The first is that we love G-d with our heart, soul, and mind- and the second is to love our neighbor as ourself.

If we are really living these two commandments (on which every other commandment that pertains to mankind and the worship of G-d), we have no reason that we would be committing any sin. However, because we are fallible human beings, we slip and fall from time to time, and in one way or another "fudge" a little on these pivotal commands that Y'shua laid out for us in the beginning.



...(capital punishment) was by the will of the Father.

Ro 13:4 - For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The powers that be are given that power by God to execute judgement against them that commit evil. That obviously includes capital punishment.

Ro 13:2 - Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

That judgement does not have to be capital punishment I grant you, but what else is justice for them that have commited murder?

...My point is that the penalty should always fit the crime. Capital punishment may offend the sensabilities of those who have never had need to utilize it, but more often than not, surviving victims of murder (the victims families) will feel that justice was indeed served by it.

And that, after all, is (or should be) the goal of any good justice system.

To provide "justice for all".

If not, you can end up with vigilanteism. And from that perspective (in some small way) capital punishment does reduce crime.

Which I think, is the entire purpose of the provisions for capital punishment in scripture, that YHVH gave to Moses to give to the people, which ruled even in the day of Y'shua and in the day of the Apostles, and none of them sought to say it was wrong, because it is the rule of G-d, and true justice...



What about the person who is killed by a murderer released from prison, or behind bars?
That blood is on the hands of anti death penalty types imo.

I agree

...What kind of backwater guilt trip you laying on people with that line??? IU'm astonished at the melodrama I see sometimes, if anyone THE MURDERER has the blood on his hands, he did the crime and he didnt repent and he killed again, got let out because someone cries about tax money feeding him, so they TOO are to blame then under your philosophy!!

Oh how bout his mom, she raised him, she gets a blame mark also right? Let's not forget the evil Television moguls, surely they halped warped his mind.

Come on, he's accounatble for the crime and you cannot [shift] blame towards anyone who does or does not disagree with a form of punishment. If that's the case, then those who are against abortion and talke his mom out of it are too blame also.

This backdoor guilt logic is incredible sometimes...

Actually, if someone is released, when they had the pronuncement of X amount of years behind bars, and because they were "good" whilst behind bars- and they kill again, the blood is on the hands of those who sat in the room and made the decision to release them.

However, the sin of the children is NEVER to fall on the parents. To each his own sin, per scripture:

Deu 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Now, with that said.. Generational Sin Curses are another thing entirely!

From http://www.geocities.com/a_christian_conservative/

I agree!

So much is to be said of the difference of the Justice of G-d in His all-knowing and all-seeing state, and the justice of mankind, in our LIMITED understanding, feelings and "sight".

Hindsight is 20/20 as they say, and I have to agree, in many instances that is correct!

My father's mother was murdered, and the man was finally caught and imprisoned. The day he was released on parole, my father's step-father died of a heart-attack upon hearing it. :(:

If he kills again, I believe fully that the parole board will be held liable by G-d, if not by men.

I'm sure there are many sins we have all committed whether knowingly or unknowing-- and that we need to do our best to correct what we find is sin, even in retrospect... not just for the wellbeing of our minds, but to help bolster other people and lift them up- righting wrongs and all that great stuff America used to be about.

[HTOR87]

Biblically speaking, yes God has mandated and ordered the execution of those who have committed a crime that warranted it.

But in this day and age in America, there have been to many cases of innocent people being put to death or released from death row due to new evidence and confessions. I don't feel right supporting something that is going to put an innocent person to death.

I know that there have been cases, that were so henious, or where someone survived and witnessed it, or where the person confessed themselves. I can see, and support the death penalty in those cases. But our law system is not set up so that the death penalty is only enforced in those cases. The grounds are to loose, and it has been proven time and again that with our current guidelines that it is possible for an innocent person to be put to death.

Its not backdoor when you have lived it, and suffered it.
My mother was murdered in cold blood by someone let out of jail on parole.
I fully well hold those people as partially responsible.
I'm so sorry for your lose. :hug I too have had a family member that was murdered and I can understand the pain and anger that it causes.

Unfortunatly, in our case, the killer was never brought to justice. She remained free until her recent suicide. I have battled with my own anger and still have not forgiven her and get comfort only in knowing that she is paying more for her crimes now, then she ever could have here on earth.

However, when a killer, rapist, child molester or any other criminal is set free, I don't blame people who are anti death penalty. Being anti death penalty does not mean anti punishment. I for one, fully support life without parole.

I blame the parole board and the laws of the state and federal goverments. They have allowed people to serve a fraction of their sentance, and then set them free upon the unsuspecting public again. Major reform within our justice system needs to be done to prevent tragedies, such as your mothers, from happening again.

But to apply the Law to day would be a tragic mistake ... stoning your neighbour to death on Saturday morning because he is out mowing his lawn, is not the way we are to live in this era.
Although, sometimes I wish it was allowed when they have the nerve to start at 7am!!!!!!!:rolleyes

[Dilferthecat]

State sanctioned death penalties personally make me queasy. I think we should throw these heinous murderers and violent offenders in prison and never let them out. But to kill them just doesn't sit well with me. I understand all the biblical references you all have pointed out. I've heard them my whole life. But, to me, it does no one any honor - society or the victim - to kill in his or her name. Like I said, there should be a huge prison built in the middle of nowhere, with no windows or any of the fancy amenities some prisoners have today, where these murderers and violent criminals can be put away forever. But to kill them? It just doesn't sit well at all with me. Let God mete out the due punishment. People just aren't very good carriers of true justice.

But I understand we all come down differently on this issue. :nod

Peace,

Lynne

[antsinmypants]

I had a verse stuck in my head since I last posted, but I couldn't remember where it was I had read it. A couple of weeks ago I was reading through Leviticus, and hit on Leviticus 27:29. Now, to most people, it looks weird, they skip it, figure it's just the old english they aren't getting and move on.

I however, got stuck. It's talking about a man or woman who is already under the sentence of death, who wishes to redeem himself/herself to serve G-d instead of being sentenced to death.

I questioned it, I checked the concordances and the commentaries and Talmud and a few Rabbis, the weekly Torah Cycle from two years past.. and talked with some friends about it and kept finding the same answer..

I know there's more here than meets the eye, and maybe a few years from now I'll have another epiphany moment with this passage, but for now this was the lightbulb I needed for a few situations I'd been confronted with recently..

I found here that in the middle of all the things that can and cannot be redeemed, G-d places this one verse that has a deciding factor- with a definitive "No" for an answer.

If one is sentenced to death, they aren't to be parolled for good behavior or to serve Him. they're to serve where they're at, and when the time comes, meet the sentence upon them.

Solemn thoughts..

[Lightfoot]

I'm against abortion, for the death penalty for murder when there is enough proof, and even for the death penalty for child abusers. At the very least child abusers should get life without parole. As for the rest I wish we had a system that actually rehabilitated. I don't think we will get it right untill Jesus reigns.

[antsinmypants]

Before I post the verses I have, I wanted to preface it with this:

1. These are the verses I found where men and/or G-d had said someone was to be put to death or stoned.

2. These can only be done in a country that is governing itself as G-d intended, as a Theocracy, with the people who sit as judges -- as G-d intended-- people who are learned of scripture and with grey hair (Older men).

3. This also shows what G-d thinks as far as spiritual death in some instances, and how heavy certain sins are looked at.... quite sobering ...


"Stone them with stones"
Lev 20:2
Lev 20:27
Lev 24:23
Num 14:10
Num 15:35
Deu 13:10
Deu 17:5
Deu 24:21
Deu 22:21
Deu 22:24
Eze 16:40
Eze 23:47

"surely be put to death"
[first instance of a man written in scripture to say the phrase] Gen 26:11

[At G-d's commandment]
Exd 19:12
Exd 21:12
Exd 21:15
Exd 21:16
Exd 21:17
Exd 22:19
Exd 31:14
Exd 31:15

Lev 20:2
Lev 20:9
Lev 20:10
Lev 20:11
Lev 20:12
Lev 20:13
Lev 20:15
Lev 20:16
Lev 20:27
Lev 24:16
Lev 24:17
Lev 27:29



Num 15:35
Num 35:17
Num 35:18
Num 35:21
Num 35:31

Deu 13:9

[Again of men] Jdg 21:5

[carmen]

...there should be a huge prison built in the middle of nowhere, with no windows or any of the fancy amenities some prisoners have today, where these murderers and violent criminals can be put away forever. But to kill them? It just doesn't sit well at all with me. Let God mete out the due punishment. People just aren't very good carriers of true justice.I understand your view of capital punishment :nod. But I wonder if your concept is actually feasible? I mean, if we pick "in the middle of nowhere" as the location, it will have to be in the middle of the desert or someplace where most people don't want to live for--presumably--good reason. I guess the expense of building and supplying a place like that would be okay, though it would likely be high (water in the desert, etc). But you also have to have guards and other workers (maintenance, cooks, etc) to live there...they will have to be willing to be miserable. What kind of discipline will you impose, if any? Or is your concept to just keep them in a cell 24/7? That could be done fairly cheaply, but I don't think most people would be willing to advocate that.

It's just not as easy as it sounds to build one big place and put them all there til they die, IMHO. And while my flesh would say that putting all the violent criminals on an island and let them live with each other is a good solution, I'm not sure it's the Godly one :sigh.

The bible is clear that there are worse things than death, though I know the flesh (including mine, at times) and the world would likely disagree.

[antsinmypants]

:heh I did see the post you're referring to Carmen.. and I had to chuckle a little when I realized, they actually had done this before-- and the place in the middle of nowhere was the Island in the Pacific we now call Australia.

And another place where political and religious prisioners were sent was the USA...


It didn't really work quite like expected I must say

[carmen]

...I had to chuckle a little when I realized, they actually had done this before-- and the place in the middle of nowhere was the Island in the Pacific we now call Australia.You're right...I didn't even think of that :lol

Okay, so maybe we DO need to do that again :heh