Eternity thoughts

[Alanoz]

Hi everyone..been lurking in the background for awhile, reading many posts..this is my first.

As is quite often discussed on this forum,our destiny, is it as simple as we say?
Jesus' words are clear, NO ONE comes to the father but through me. Whoever believes in me shall NOT perish but have eternal life.

As we know after here we either spend eternity either with God or condemned to hell..something our brains find hard to comprehend as everything here on earth has a beginning and an end. So is such a monumentous outcome as simple as some people would have it...i'll give some examples:

Lets start with the mentally handi-capped. Sure life on earth can be hard for those with such a condition, but give me under 100 yrs on earth in such a state in return for a guarateed life in heaven as God could surely not send a retarted, autistic, deaf dumd & blind...etc person to hell?

What about the millions who never hear the word. Can our eternity be simply determined by where and when you are born. People are born in places where they never once will hear about who Jesus is and what has taken place over the last 2000 yrs. Can such poeple be judged?

What about the young man who murders 6 or 7 unsaved people. He spends the rest of his life in jail threatening to kill anyone who tries to preach the word to him whilst in jail. Now as an old man coming to the end of his life he decides to read a bible. 'Hey'.. he says to everyone..' i believe what this book says' The man confesses his sins asks Jesus for forgiveness and on judgement day collects his passport to heaven,just as God is sending the non believers he murdered to hell. 'Hang on' they say..'this man cut all our lives short and caused great misery and hardship for our families yet it is WE that are condemned to hell'? Somethings not right here.

Then we have the suicide bombers in Israel. Now i dont pretend to defend these people at all. But consider if you were a Palistinian child who grew up never hearing anything else except that the Jews were the enemy and your life long mission is kill at least one,more if you can and you will end up in heaven with seventy or so virgin brides etc..Now we can sit back here and say 'yes but they should all know right from wrong' but how can they? As i said i dont defend those that do it, but who here chose to be an American, Englishman, Spaniard, Chinese, Palstinian, Australian :): ) or whatever?.. No one.

How,when,where we are born seems to me to have a pretty big bearing on how our destiny is shaped. Can it be pure luck that your born to christian parents rather than child abusing devil worshippers? What would the children of the evil parents say to God before they were cast into hell, assuming the more likely senario that they themselves would lead a non believing life? 'Well, we never had a chance did we'. I'm not for one minute suggesting that all children born to christian parents will be saved themselves, but we all know the huge advantage a child has over the unfortunate child of evil parents.

As we are told, after here its forever and ever either in heaven or hell. The stakes are high, higher than anyone can really comprehend. I am the same as the rest of you, i have family that dont believe..good people, but dont believe.
Can such a fate really await them when there are so many variables that determine your beliefs here on earth.

Did i hear or read once that it is God who choses us not us chose him. If that is true i can see a lot of people now saying to God 'hey why didnt you chose me'?

Having said all that i know that my logic and reason is no where like that of God, so i suppose i will just have to wait like everyone else to try and under what the big picture really is.

Well thanks for reading i look forward to some reply's.

[Kathe]

Hi everyone..been lurking in the background for awhile, reading many posts..this is my first.

As is quite often discussed on this forum,our destiny, is it as simple as we say?
Jesus' words are clear, NO ONE comes to the father but through me. Whoever believes in me shall NOT perish but have eternal life.

As we know after here we either spend eternity either with God or condemned to hell..something our brains find hard to comprehend as everything here on earth has a beginning and an end. So is such a monumentous outcome as simple as some people would have it...i'll give some examples:

Lets start with the mentally handi-capped. Sure life on earth can be hard for those with such a condition, but give me under 100 yrs on earth in such a state in return for a guarateed life in heaven as God could surely not send a retarted, autistic, deaf dumd & blind...etc person to hell?

What about the millions who never hear the word. Can our eternity be simply determined by where and when you are born. People are born in places where they never once will hear about who Jesus is and what has taken place over the last 2000 yrs. Can such poeple be judged?

What about the young man who murders 6 or 7 unsaved people. He spends the rest of his life in jail threatening to kill anyone who tries to preach the word to him whilst in jail. Now as an old man coming to the end of his life he decides to read a bible. 'Hey'.. he says to everyone..' i believe what this book says' The man confesses his sins asks Jesus for forgiveness and on judgement day collects his passport to heaven,just as God is sending the non believers he murdered to hell. 'Hang on' they say..'this man cut all our lives short and caused great misery and hardship for our families yet it is WE that are condemned to hell'? Somethings not right here.

Then we have the suicide bombers in Israel. Now i dont pretend to defend these people at all. But consider if you were a Palistinian child who grew up never hearing anything else except that the Jews were the enemy and your life long mission is kill at least one,more if you can and you will end up in heaven with seventy or so virgin brides etc..Now we can sit back here and say 'yes but they should all know right from wrong' but how can they? As i said i dont defend those that do it, but who here chose to be an American, Englishman, Spaniard, Chinese, Palstinian, Australian :): ) or whatever?.. No one.

How,when,where we are born seems to me to have a pretty big bearing on how our destiny is shaped. Can it be pure luck that your born to christian parents rather than child abusing devil worshippers? What would the children of the evil parents say to God before they were cast into hell, assuming the more likely senario that they themselves would lead a non believing life? 'Well, we never had a chance did we'. I'm not for one minute suggesting that all children born to christian parents will be saved themselves, but we all know the huge advantage a child has over the unfortunate child of evil parents.

As we are told, after here its forever and ever either in heaven or hell. The stakes are high, higher than anyone can really comprehend. I am the same as the rest of you, i have family that dont believe..good people, but dont believe.
Can such a fate really await them when there are so many variables that determine your beliefs here on earth.

Did i hear or read once that it is God who choses us not us chose him. If that is true i can see a lot of people now saying to God 'hey why didnt you chose me'?

Having said all that i know that my logic and reason is no where like that of God, so i suppose i will just have to wait like everyone else to try and under what the big picture really is.

Well thanks for reading i look forward to some reply's.

Hi Alanoz and welcome to RR,

You have some great questions and some of the same ones I used to have. A great book that I would recommend to you is the Case for Faith by Lee Strobel. He is an ex-atheist, now Christian and this book goes through questions just like these. I'll do my best here and I'm sure everyone else here will help, too.

In this day and age there really aren't too many people left who have not been exposed to the bible. Especially with the advent of the internet and communication the way it is today. That is one of the big signs that we are close to or in the end times is that the Word has spread through the whole world.

As for your murderer. Sin is sin. God doesn't say well this sin is worse than that one. We are all sinners, every one. He who hates his brother is a murdered. Have you ever hated anyone? Well, God looks at you as a murderer? Look at just the 10 commandments. What number do you think you can break and still get into heaven? Anyone who gives their heart to Jesus and asks for forgiveness will be forgiven. I have done some pretty awful things in my life and I can live free of those because Christ poured out His blood on the cross for me and everyone else.

There is nothing (that I know of) in the bible which speaks about children. In my heart I believe that our God is holy and I believe that any child under the age of accountability (may differ with each child) will automatically go to heaven or at least be able to make that decision at the point of entry. A child growing up with parents who are atheists is not automatically sent to hell I don't believe. Same for a child growing up with suicide bombers as parents. They will have a chance to make their own choice.

Those are just some of my thoughts. I'm sure you'll get lots more from the very well versed here on RR. And again, welcome!

Kathe

[anangel4u]

Welcome to the board.

Yes I do believe it is God who draws us closer to him. Yet there are those who still turn away from the drawing.

I do not believe there will be anyone who can say; " I never heard of Jesus," in a civilized country like yours and mine. We have all heard of him and been free to worship him. There will be no escape from judgement for them.

For anyone who lived in remote areas, God will judge each person based upon their understanding of what they did know. For some it may be a recognition of a creator, yet they did not know of Jesus death on the cross.

I have also heard it said that God will make himself evident in some way to every person. If nothing else but through conscience of what is right and wrong.

As far as the murder goes, well....

pardon from sin....is the same for everyone....

all have sinned, all must have his righteousness, Jesus pardon is absolute and the only way.

[countmeworthy]

Questions such as these have crossed my mind too. The only 'answer' that comes to me is that God knows the heart of every person & is a JUST God. He is a very Merciful GOD too. He is the JUDGE.

Our responsibility is to pray for the un-saved and to continue pray for those who are saved. Selah.

[Alanoz]

Hi Kathe

I'll have a search for that book.

Although we live in a very changing world,i'm not sure communication is as wide as we think. A heard a report recently that up to a half of the worlds population have never used a phone! Therefore the internet would be out of reach.Speaking of the internet although there is much good there is equally as much bad.Therefore given a choice i'd rather be born in say 1800AD with far less temptations/distractions in life than there are today!

Oh and one question i forgot in my first post, what of those born before Christ. Are they subject to...how can i put it? different judgements? to those born after?

[alabama35565]

if you will read the Old Testament you will see that there were beleivers.........beleivers in God the Father...........Jesus Christ was born later.

Noah beleived as did Moses , just to name a couple.
the Word was spreading a very long time before Jesus was born.:nod :nod :nod

[jmj4Christ]

I do not believe there will be anyone who can say; " I never heard of Jesus," in a civilized country like yours and mine. We have all heard of him and been free to worship him. There will be no escape from judgement for them.The only thing is, though, I don't think simplying "hearing of Jesus" is enough to raise that level of judgment. Just because someone in, say, the deepest parts of Africa hears someone speak about Jesus doesn't mean that person then rejects Jesus if it never goes any further than that. There would have to be some level of understanding in order to be judged, in my opinion.

Tough questions, Alanoz!

jmj4Christ

[Hi Hopes]

Welcome to the board Alanoz! :wave
ROMANS 2;14-15
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselfs:

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing wittness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excususing one another;

[Leuretha]

Alanoz wecome to the board. Read I Peter really really well I think you will find an answer for a few of your questions.

[penny4867]

Excellent questions Alanoz ..... like you I too have wondered, eventually it dawned on me that God is God, the Alpha and the Omega, He alone is perfect, therefore His judgement is perfect. I truly believe everyone will be judged absolutely fairly, no mis-trials or apeals just perfect justice.
penny

[Hootmon]

There would have to be some level of understanding in order to be judged, in my opinion. Agreed.

[blitzkreig]

The only thing is, though, I don't think simplying "hearing of Jesus" is enough to raise that level of judgment. Just because someone in, say, the deepest parts of Africa hears someone speak about Jesus doesn't mean that person then rejects Jesus if it never goes any further than that. There would have to be some level of understanding in order to be judged, in my opinion.
Rom 1:18-23
(18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
(19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
(23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

[A_AmericanSaint]

Hi everyone..been lurking in the background for awhile, reading many posts..this is my first.

As is quite often discussed on this forum,our destiny, is it as simple as we say?
Jesus' words are clear, NO ONE comes to the father but through me. Whoever believes in me shall NOT perish but have eternal life.

As we know after here we either spend eternity either with God or condemned to hell..something our brains find hard to comprehend as everything here on earth has a beginning and an end. So is such a monumentous outcome as simple as some people would have it...i'll give some examples:

Lets start with the mentally handi-capped. Sure life on earth can be hard for those with such a condition, but give me under 100 yrs on earth in such a state in return for a guarateed life in heaven as God could surely not send a retarted, autistic, deaf dumd & blind...etc person to hell?

What about the millions who never hear the word. Can our eternity be simply determined by where and when you are born. People are born in places where they never once will hear about who Jesus is and what has taken place over the last 2000 yrs. Can such poeple be judged?

What about the young man who murders 6 or 7 unsaved people. He spends the rest of his life in jail threatening to kill anyone who tries to preach the word to him whilst in jail. Now as an old man coming to the end of his life he decides to read a bible. 'Hey'.. he says to everyone..' i believe what this book says' The man confesses his sins asks Jesus for forgiveness and on judgement day collects his passport to heaven,just as God is sending the non believers he murdered to hell. 'Hang on' they say..'this man cut all our lives short and caused great misery and hardship for our families yet it is WE that are condemned to hell'? Somethings not right here.

Then we have the suicide bombers in Israel. Now i dont pretend to defend these people at all. But consider if you were a Palistinian child who grew up never hearing anything else except that the Jews were the enemy and your life long mission is kill at least one,more if you can and you will end up in heaven with seventy or so virgin brides etc..Now we can sit back here and say 'yes but they should all know right from wrong' but how can they? As i said i dont defend those that do it, but who here chose to be an American, Englishman, Spaniard, Chinese, Palstinian, Australian ) or whatever?.. No one.

How,when,where we are born seems to me to have a pretty big bearing on how our destiny is shaped. Can it be pure luck that your born to christian parents rather than child abusing devil worshippers? What would the children of the evil parents say to God before they were cast into hell, assuming the more likely senario that they themselves would lead a non believing life? 'Well, we never had a chance did we'. I'm not for one minute suggesting that all children born to christian parents will be saved themselves, but we all know the huge advantage a child has over the unfortunate child of evil parents.

As we are told, after here its forever and ever either in heaven or hell. The stakes are high, higher than anyone can really comprehend. I am the same as the rest of you, i have family that dont believe..good people, but dont believe.
Can such a fate really await them when there are so many variables that determine your beliefs here on earth.

Did i hear or read once that it is God who choses us not us chose him. If that is true i can see a lot of people now saying to God 'hey why didnt you chose me'?

Having said all that i know that my logic and reason is no where like that of God, so i suppose i will just have to wait like everyone else to try and under what the big picture really is.

Well thanks for reading i look forward to some reply's.

I'm gonna go through each individual question in hopes that this is the best way to answer you.

As is quite often discussed on this forum,our destiny, is it as simple as we say?
Jesus' words are clear, NO ONE comes to the father but through me. Whoever believes in me shall NOT perish but have eternal life.

Ah, it's not that simple. There are such things as hypocrites within the walls of the church (the actual church has no hypocrites, as the church literally is the body of true believers in Christ, not a building). False believers. People who claim affinity to Christ, yet have nothing of the kind. Jesus talks about this throughout His parables (explained in detail in the parable of the sower), and in Matthew 7. Click on my 'True and False Conversion' and 'Hell's Best Kept Secret' pictures on my signature to get more information on these subjects.

Lets start with the mentally handi-capped. Sure life on earth can be hard for those with such a condition, but give me under 100 yrs on earth in such a state in return for a guarateed life in heaven as God could surely not send a retarted, autistic, deaf dumd & blind...etc person to hell?

This is a difficult question, In my heart I have the feeling that God wouldn't hold someone accountable for decisions in which they had no opportunity to decide for themselves. Our court system doesn't hold people accountable for their crimes if they lack the resources to understand that they are crimes in the first place. Good question though.

What about the millions who never hear the word. Can our eternity be simply determined by where and when you are born. People are born in places where they never once will hear about who Jesus is and what has taken place over the last 2000 yrs. Can such poeple be judged?

Yes. Each person has been givin a conscience, and knows the difference between right and wrong and will be without excuse when they stand before the Throne in judgement. Even if they die without the knowledge of Jesus, they will be judged. Many people ask this question as an excuse not to evangelize. This is why Christians must be vigilant in sharing their faith with others. We are commanded to spread the Gospel, but also because it would be inhuman to know about the forgiveness in Christ and not share it with people in a world who are just waiting to die and go to hell, forever. Love would reach out and tell others.

What about the young man who murders 6 or 7 unsaved people. He spends the rest of his life in jail threatening to kill anyone who tries to preach the word to him whilst in jail. Now as an old man coming to the end of his life he decides to read a bible. 'Hey'.. he says to everyone..' i believe what this book says' The man confesses his sins asks Jesus for forgiveness and on judgement day collects his passport to heaven,just as God is sending the non believers he murdered to hell. 'Hang on' they say..'this man cut all our lives short and caused great misery and hardship for our families yet it is WE that are condemned to hell'? Somethings not right here.

I can see where we as humans see injustice being done here, but such is not the case. The people that he killed are not being judged for not accepting Christ. They are being judged for breaking the Ten Commandments. They are being judged for the crimes that they did against God. Rembember that God says that hatred is as bad as murder in the eyes of a Holy God. Regardless of whether you committed the deed or not. Same thing with lust, it's as bad as adultery. Jesus sharpened the Law. They will also be judged for rejecting what God did for them on the cross. Rembember it is God who gives life, and takes it. He could of caused those people to not be in the situation that led to their murder. God says 'I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy'. Now if the murderer truly repents (which is God-given, He must draw someone to repentance) and turns to the Savior for forgiveness, then Christ is the one who will bear his guilt in the day of judgement and pay for his crimes. From a human perspective the scenario you mentioned seems wrong, but in light of truth, it makes sense. The victims of that murder were indeed transgressors of their own accord, and will be judged because of what they did.

Then we have the suicide bombers in Israel. Now i dont pretend to defend these people at all. But consider if you were a Palistinian child who grew up never hearing anything else except that the Jews were the enemy and your life long mission is kill at least one,more if you can and you will end up in heaven with seventy or so virgin brides etc..Now we can sit back here and say 'yes but they should all know right from wrong' but how can they? As i said i dont defend those that do it, but who here chose to be an American, Englishman, Spaniard, Chinese, Palstinian, Australian ) or whatever?.. No one.

I'd suggest reading Romans 9. The questing seems to be like the clay asking the potter, why did you make me like this? ( http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Romans%209&version=50 ) Again, this is why we as Christians must share the Gospel to a dieing world. If we walk by someone who has never heard the Good News before, and don't care that they are going to hell, their blood is on our hands. Think of it like this: There was a man in a village who was found guilty of stealing, for which the penalty is death. However, the king took pity of that man and wrote him a pardon because he has a large family to provide for, and gave that pardon to his messenger to deliver to the executioner to spare the life of the man, but on the way the messenger gets tired and lays down for a quick nap. He then realizes that it's late in the day and when he arrives in the village he is 5 minutes too late. Who's fault is it that the man was executed?

How,when,where we are born seems to me to have a pretty big bearing on how our destiny is shaped. Can it be pure luck that your born to christian parents rather than child abusing devil worshippers? What would the children of the evil parents say to God before they were cast into hell, assuming the more likely senario that they themselves would lead a non believing life? 'Well, we never had a chance did we'. I'm not for one minute suggesting that all children born to christian parents will be saved themselves, but we all know the huge advantage a child has over the unfortunate child of evil parents.

Again, Romans 9. Those people will be judged according to their transgression of the law, like everyone else. How can a good judge let someone off for murder? There needs to be a payment for that crime. Either Jesus takes the blame and pays for the sin, or the transgressor does. You really don't want to pay for your sins because that requires destruction in hell forever.

As we are told, after here its forever and ever either in heaven or hell. The stakes are high, higher than anyone can really comprehend. I am the same as the rest of you, i have family that dont believe..good people, but dont believe.
Can such a fate really await them when there are so many variables that determine your beliefs here on earth.

Yes. We live in a created dimension of time, which is a human perspective. Eternity is without beginning or end. We as humans usually have a skewed perspective of 'good'. God's standard of 'good' is absolute perfection (He's God, right?). We settle for much less (good food, good people, good cars, etc). If fact, our righteousness to God is 'as filthy rags'. It's pitiful. That's why when we die and transgress a Holy Law, Given by a Holy Absolute God that the punishment for eternity is reasonable. If you reject God's atoning sacrifice on the Cross (Jesus is God, came to mankind on purpose to take our guilt, our blame) then you must fess up to this perfect law. Perfect law begets perfect justice. This makes hell for eternity reasonable. Violation of His commandments is treason against a Holy God. Punishable for forever.

Did i hear or read once that it is God who choses us not us chose him. If that is true i can see a lot of people now saying to God 'hey why didnt you chose me'?

Romans 9. Lol, it seems that this is a big hurdle for you. It's true, nobody can come to the Cross of Christ unless God draws them. Think of it like a pardon from a King. You don't get to get one of those unless the King allows you to come before Him.

www.NeedGod.com

This is a pretty good website which describes in pretty good detail some more along the lines of which I was writing.

I hope this helps you.

Saint

[Purple Kitten]

I have a question about Alanoz's questions. Is this really something that we can discuss with any authority or support?

It is my understanding that none of the things he asked about are directly covered in the Bible. Wouldn't that mean that any answers we come up with are merely opinions based on interpretations?

I think that it could be that God looks intot he hearts of those who never learned about Christ or those who are too young and judges them accordingly. But I also think it's possible that God's way of handling those people is, "The rules are the rules," and they go to hell because they didn't accept Christ, even though they didn't have the option.

Isn't that true?

[Ladybug]

Hi everyone..been lurking in the background for awhile, reading many posts..this is my first.

As is quite often discussed on this forum,our destiny, is it as simple as we say?
Jesus' words are clear, NO ONE comes to the father but through me. Whoever believes in me shall NOT perish but have eternal life.

As we know after here we either spend eternity either with God or condemned to hell..something our brains find hard to comprehend as everything here on earth has a beginning and an end. So is such a monumentous outcome as simple as some people would have it...i'll give some examples:

Lets start with the mentally handi-capped. Sure life on earth can be hard for those with such a condition, but give me under 100 yrs on earth in such a state in return for a guarateed life in heaven as God could surely not send a retarted, autistic, deaf dumd & blind...etc person to hell?

:wave Alanoz and congrats on your first post.

I think most everyone agrees that for a person to truly accept Christ as their savior, they have to be aware of what they’re doing. A person with such a severe mental handicap would probably be unable to do so. That’s not to say they can’t understand that Jesus loves them and even died for them, but may not comprehend why that was necessary. Just as young children will go to heaven because they can’t understand their need for salvation.

What about the millions who never hear the word. Can our eternity be simply determined by where and when you are born. People are born in places where they never once will hear about who Jesus is and what has taken place over the last 2000 yrs. Can such poeple be judged?

This is probably the area of greatest debate. The Bible says that God is attested to even in the heavens. We cannot judge, but God is certainly able to.

What about the young man who murders 6 or 7 unsaved people. He spends the rest of his life in jail threatening to kill anyone who tries to preach the word to him whilst in jail. Now as an old man coming to the end of his life he decides to read a bible. 'Hey'.. he says to everyone..' i believe what this book says' The man confesses his sins asks Jesus for forgiveness and on judgement day collects his passport to heaven,just as God is sending the non believers he murdered to hell. 'Hang on' they say..'this man cut all our lives short and caused great misery and hardship for our families yet it is WE that are condemned to hell'? Somethings not right here.

What about Saul, who was condemning Messianic Jews to death? God forgave him, and he became Paul.


Then we have the suicide bombers in Israel. Now i dont pretend to defend these people at all. But consider if you were a Palistinian child who grew up never hearing anything else except that the Jews were the enemy and your life long mission is kill at least one,more if you can and you will end up in heaven with seventy or so virgin brides etc..Now we can sit back here and say 'yes but they should all know right from wrong' but how can they? As i said i dont defend those that do it, but who here chose to be an American, Englishman, Spaniard, Chinese, Palstinian, Australian :): ) or whatever?.. No one.

I won’t say that such a problem can’t be overcome (God is in control after all ;): ) but I don’t think that God will take that as a way out.

How,when,where we are born seems to me to have a pretty big bearing on how our destiny is shaped. Can it be pure luck that your born to christian parents rather than child abusing devil worshippers? What would the children of the evil parents say to God before they were cast into hell, assuming the more likely senario that they themselves would lead a non believing life? 'Well, we never had a chance did we'. I'm not for one minute suggesting that all children born to christian parents will be saved themselves, but we all know the huge advantage a child has over the unfortunate child of evil parents.

As we are told, after here its forever and ever either in heaven or hell. The stakes are high, higher than anyone can really comprehend. I am the same as the rest of you, i have family that dont believe..good people, but dont believe.
Can such a fate really await them when there are so many variables that determine your beliefs here on earth.

Did i hear or read once that it is God who choses us not us chose him. If that is true i can see a lot of people now saying to God 'hey why didnt you chose me'?

Having said all that i know that my logic and reason is no where like that of God, so i suppose i will just have to wait like everyone else to try and under what the big picture really is.

Well thanks for reading i look forward to some reply's.

I know the big picture is hard for our little human minds to fathom. Basically, it’s God wanted someone to fellowship with so He created us. But God is holy and can’t be in fellowship with corrupt things. When Adam and Eve sinned, that broke the fellowship and that sin nature has been passed on to humankind ever since. No matter how good a person is, they are not perfect and holy. So, a way was created that would cover our sins to let us be in fellowship with God, and that was the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Why did God choose that way? I don’t know, but He did.

[LaMontre]

Hi everyone..been lurking in the background for awhile, reading many posts..this is my first.

As is quite often discussed on this forum,our destiny, is it as simple as we say?
Jesus' words are clear, NO ONE comes to the father but through me. Whoever believes in me shall NOT perish but have eternal life.

As we know after here we either spend eternity either with God or condemned to hell..something our brains find hard to comprehend as everything here on earth has a beginning and an end. So is such a monumentous outcome as simple as some people would have it...i'll give some examples:

Lets start with the mentally handi-capped. Sure life on earth can be hard for those with such a condition, but give me under 100 yrs on earth in such a state in return for a guarateed life in heaven as God could surely not send a retarted, autistic, deaf dumd & blind...etc person to hell?

What about the millions who never hear the word. Can our eternity be simply determined by where and when you are born. People are born in places where they never once will hear about who Jesus is and what has taken place over the last 2000 yrs. Can such poeple be judged?

What about the young man who murders 6 or 7 unsaved people. He spends the rest of his life in jail threatening to kill anyone who tries to preach the word to him whilst in jail. Now as an old man coming to the end of his life he decides to read a bible. 'Hey'.. he says to everyone..' i believe what this book says' The man confesses his sins asks Jesus for forgiveness and on judgement day collects his passport to heaven,just as God is sending the non believers he murdered to hell. 'Hang on' they say..'this man cut all our lives short and caused great misery and hardship for our families yet it is WE that are condemned to hell'? Somethings not right here.

Then we have the suicide bombers in Israel. Now i dont pretend to defend these people at all. But consider if you were a Palistinian child who grew up never hearing anything else except that the Jews were the enemy and your life long mission is kill at least one,more if you can and you will end up in heaven with seventy or so virgin brides etc..Now we can sit back here and say 'yes but they should all know right from wrong' but how can they? As i said i dont defend those that do it, but who here chose to be an American, Englishman, Spaniard, Chinese, Palstinian, Australian :): ) or whatever?.. No one.

How,when,where we are born seems to me to have a pretty big bearing on how our destiny is shaped. Can it be pure luck that your born to christian parents rather than child abusing devil worshippers? What would the children of the evil parents say to God before they were cast into hell, assuming the more likely senario that they themselves would lead a non believing life? 'Well, we never had a chance did we'. I'm not for one minute suggesting that all children born to christian parents will be saved themselves, but we all know the huge advantage a child has over the unfortunate child of evil parents.

As we are told, after here its forever and ever either in heaven or hell. The stakes are high, higher than anyone can really comprehend. I am the same as the rest of you, i have family that dont believe..good people, but dont believe.
Can such a fate really await them when there are so many variables that determine your beliefs here on earth.

Did i hear or read once that it is God who choses us not us chose him. If that is true i can see a lot of people now saying to God 'hey why didnt you chose me'?

Having said all that i know that my logic and reason is no where like that of God, so i suppose i will just have to wait like everyone else to try and under what the big picture really is.

Well thanks for reading i look forward to some reply's.

Man, you ran the gammett here......:):

I think that there is one answer to all your questions that is simple, and it is also the only way your going to find any peace on such issues;

FAITH IN GOD.

Trusting that His will is being done in your life, and that your prayers are answered even before they are spoken....resting in Christ and His completed work is truely peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

If you feel some burden for such things as you list above, then the answer is to do whatever you can right where you are, and pray, and pray, and pray some more, until your burden turns to joy and peace.

Thats the only answer I have for you. Hope it helps? :thumb

Grace and peace (and welcome).