exorcisms

[glommes]

I have several questions concerning exorcisms.

First, there were demonic possessions in the Bible, and it should be obvious that demonic possessions still abound today. Many people, though, would refuse to believe this. I guess that shows how much influence Satan has in today's world. Anyway, the Roman Catholic Church outlines very specific rites and rules for exorcism such as only authorized ministers may perform the rites, and it must be done a certain way every time. I say, why can't any faithful follower of Christ call upon His power to free a person of demons? Secondly, television and movies lead people to believe that excorsims can be very dangerous. Again, I would think that a faithful follower of Christ would be safe. Third, does a person have to be seeking help have demons driven out, or can the demons be commanded to leave in Christ's name against the victim's will? I think that should start an interesting thread. Please let me know what you think, and share any good information with us.

[zooplankton77]

Check out A&E tonight. Bob Larson & Co. will be discussing this very subject.

[J4E]

I have a good read for you.... They Shall Expel Demons by Derek Prince

http://www.dpmshop.org/eshop/exec/shop.php?s=dpmusa&pid=2&lid[1]=2&lid[0]=1&ps=10

[sandy111]

do you see anywhere in scripture where all this garbage happens?

Jesus and the apostles simply rebuked the demons. they had to leave.


if a person does'nt want them to leave they could end up 7 times worse.

and obviously some come out only by prayer and fasting as scripture says.

not something to play with.

[rancherswife]

While I have absolutely no first hand knowledge of this issue, I have heard a pastor talk about it before. He was having a pastor's meeting in his home with several local pastors when one of their on-again, off-again attenders showed up at his house.

To make a long story short, the guy was possessed and the pastors prayed over him to expell the demons. According to his recounting it took quite a long time, and he described it as true spiritual warfare with quoting of scripture and much prayer before the demons would leave the man.

[Timothy]

It is interesting to "compare" the scriptural mention of demon activity pertaining to possession at the time of Christ vs. after his ressurrection, and the noticeable and measurable changes. This summary is from Charles Baker, Dispensational Theology:

Demon activity has been more prominent at certain periods of history than at others. There was a great outbreak of it during the earthly ministry of Christ, and the Scriptures predict another outbreak during the great tribulation (1 Timothy 4:1; Revelation 9:11, 20; Matthew 24:24 cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-10).

Paul was given the power to manifest all of the signs of an apostle (2 Corinthians 12:12), and hence to cast out demons. However, in the epistles written to the members of the Body of Christ there is no mention of the gift of casting out demons or any instruction how this is to be done. To be sure, the believer in this dispensation is engaged in a warfare in which he wrestles against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places (Ephesians 6:12), but again, nothing is said about casting out Satan or demons. The believer is told to take to himself the whole armor of God and having done all to stand. It would seem strange, if believers are supposed to engage in this ministry of casting out demons, that not one word of instruction on the subject should be found in the Church epistles. On the other hand, no doubt certain Satanic powers are overcome every time a sinner believes the gospel and is saved. People who were once demon possessed may experience salvation, and surely if they do the demon must be ejected in the process.

What is meant by "doctrines of demons?" Paul warns against this in I Timothy 4:1. It is not doctrines about demons, but doctrines which demons propagate. There is no doubt but that Satan and his ministers are involved in sponsoring any and every teaching that is contrary to sound doctrine. However, according to 2 Corinthians 11:13-15, "Satan is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as ministers of righteousness." Thus, Satanic doctrine may have the appearance of morality and rectitude, just as any counterfeit may appear to be genuine. Demon doctrine may be very religious; it may even have much to say about Jesus as a moralist. One thing seems to be very evident and that is that demon activity varies according to the culture and surroundings of peoples. In areas where the gospel has never penetrated demonism may manifest itself in all manner of uncleanness, immorality, superstition, and cruelty. In civilized and christianized cultures the approach may be entirely different. In the one case Satan endeavors to hold his subjects in ignorance and darkness; in the other, he counterfeits and deceives.

Basically, Baker is saying that demonic activity has changed or shifted from the time of Christ's earthly ministry to the dispensation of grace. At the time of Christ, demonic activity was "physical" or outward and more visible (and at that time casting out was one of the numerous miraculous signs of the apostles). It could be concluded that this activity was to directly oppose Christ's earthly ministry, the establishment of the prophetic kingdom, etc. In this dispensation of grace, demonic activity is more "spiritual" in nature and more invisible (and the only casting out is done by the Holy Spirit when someone is saved). It could be concluded that today's subtle demonic activity concerns clouding the gospel of grace, by mixing law and grace, etc.

[roadrunner570]

First off, Bob Larson is a joke, and a scam artist. To hear him talk, he sounds like HE is the one casting out demons, that alone tells me he's fake. Only JESUS can cast them out. It is HIS name that has power, not Bob Larson or any pastor or priest.

I've heard stories of missionaries who have cast out demons. In the counts that I've heard, 2 or 3 went to see the possessed person and rebuked the demon in Jesus' name, while they had a group of Christians stay behind in their tents, holding hands and praying together for the ones who were casting out the demons. See? By having a group lke this do it, only GOD is then glorified. No one man could come in and say that HE cast out the demon. This is not fun and games, and there is warning against playing aroudn with this in Acts:

Ac 19:13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.”
Ac 19:14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
Ac 19:15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?”
Ac 19:16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

It should be noted, in the legitimate stories I've heard, the missionaries were simply put into a situation where they had to act. They were not going around looking for demons to cast out. I hear about these "deliverance ministers" who go around casting demons out of people, and I think that is playing with fire. Especially when they have Christians convinced they'd been demon possessed..but how can a truly saved person be possessed if they are filled with the Holy Spirit?

[antitox]

I have several questions concerning exorcisms.

First, there were demonic possessions in the Bible, and it should be obvious that demonic possessions still abound today. Many people, though, would refuse to believe this. I guess that shows how much influence Satan has in today's world. Anyway, the Roman Catholic Church outlines very specific rites and rules for exorcism such as only authorized ministers may perform the rites, and it must be done a certain way every time. I say, why can't any faithful follower of Christ call upon His power to free a person of demons?

Believers can cast out demons, and I wouldn't listen to the RCC on this.

The only thing is there have been times that people cast out demons from people who weren't ready for it and the subject ended up getting a worse infestation afterwards. I think you really have to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit on this and have a little experience/training with people who understand what happens in certain situations.

Secondly, television and movies lead people to believe that excorsims can be very dangerous.

They can if you are dealing with the more powerful demons, but normally we aren't.

Again, I would think that a faithful follower of Christ would be safe. Third, does a person have to be seeking help have demons driven out, or can the demons be commanded to leave in Christ's name against the victim's will? I think that should start an interesting thread. Please let me know what you think, and share any good information with us.

That is a good question. The demon won't leave if the subject wants the demon. That would mean the jubject is authorizing the demons to stay and you don't have authority over other people.

[glommes]

Ac 19:13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.”
Ac 19:14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
Ac 19:15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?”
Ac 19:16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.


why did this happen?

[antitox]

Ac 19:13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.”
Ac 19:14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
Ac 19:15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?”
Ac 19:16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.


why did this happen?


Because they were doing it in man's authority, not Christ's. They did not carry the authority because they were not born again and were just copying what they saw Paul do. That's why the bible points out that they were itinerant Jewish priests.

[JimB]

I would strongly urge that whomever has a desire to attempt to remove demons or to even read about them consider the very wise words of Sandy.

Demons are not something to be trifled with or to not take very seriously. They are powerful spirit creatures that are pure evil and hate you. And yes they can appear as an angel of light also.

Their sole job on earth is to deceive you and try and get you to hell with them for an eternity and anything and everything they can do they will. To include get you to think it is okay to inquire about them or to attempt to summon them from the body of some poor possessed person.

If you read about them or attempt something as absolutely stupid as to perform an exorcism you may be very surprised at the unwanted attention you receive.

The most scary moment of my life (and I have had guns pointed at me on several occasions) was when someone who lived in the same apartment as I did simply read the prayer in the back of a book about possessions etc on how to see if you had a demon in you. When she did that is unleashed a flurry of horrible unexplained things in my apartment. The most vile and filthy feeling and actual presence ever was present and it would not go away. It was subdued for a while and after a lot of prayer but it never went away.

Do not read about these creatures or think you have the capability to take one on or to summon him out of someone else.

If someone needs your prayers then pray for them but for heaven sake and yours do not do something as foolish as an attempted exorcism. Heck why would you even want to read about them.




not something to play with.

[carmen]

...demon activity varies according to the culture and surroundings of peoples. In areas where the gospel has never penetrated demonism may manifest itself in all manner of uncleanness, immorality, superstition, and cruelty. In civilized and christianized cultures the approach may be entirely different. In the one case Satan endeavors to hold his subjects in ignorance and darkness; in the other, he counterfeits and deceives.Interesting quote. Thanks for posting, Timothy. This says something I have said before and thought for some time, but wasn't able to articulate with NEARLY the skill. I do believe that satan is smart enough to shift his tactics according to the surrounding culture and does so as needed.


The only thing is there have been times that people cast out demons from people who weren't ready for it and the subject ended up getting a worse infestation afterwards.

They [exorcisms] can [be very dangerous] if you are dealing with the more powerful demons, but normally we aren't.

The demon won't leave if the subject wants the demon. That would mean the jubject is authorizing the demons to stay and you don't have authority over other people.Not questioning you necessarily, Anti, but was wondering about your biblical backing for these statements? Or are you basing them on stories about exorcisms?


One thing I find interesting is the way we compare ourselves to the disciples/apostles, and take our abilities to be the same as theirs. While I do generally agree that what they could do, we can do, I don't think that most of us today have a walk that is anywhere comparable to theirs. We can do all things through Christ, of course, but if our relationship with Him isn't what it needs to be, what He will do through us is limited in some essential ways. Based on that, I would be much less likely to presume too much on my being able to do whatever Paul, etc, could do.

[John 3:16]

I also would like to see scripture to support exorcism and demon presence.:nod It DOES say that an angel is holding back the demons in the Tigress/Euphrates area...doesn't it ?(Revelation).

Sorta relevant but sorta not...someone in my office said something about "holy water" the other day and I just blurted out, "There is no such thing.":spit I know on The Exorcist...the priest burned the girl with holy water so that is why this is along the same lines of thinking. Just the thought of a priest "blessing" holy water made me blurt out!!!:doh

[Abiding in Him]

Timothy - Could you give us a website where you got your information from by Charles Baker. I really like that and would like to share this with others.

[Timothy]

Timothy - Could you give us a website where you got your information from by Charles Baker. I really like that and would like to share this with others.

Sorry, but it is a cut/paste job from an Adobe Acrobat (PDF) file that is not available online. His book A Dispensational Theology is available hard copy or as part of the Grace Library (http://www.tbsministries.com), which is a collection of 200 books in PDF format. For a more precise citation, it comes from A Dispensational Theology by Charles F. Baker, and the citation is from from Part Six - Angelology, Chapter 30 - Satan and the Fallen Angels, pages 224-226. I realize now that I should have added "breaks" between each paragraph, as the quotation is not continous, and I extracted three independent paragraphs. Hope this helps...

:):

[blitzkreig]

Interesting quote. Thanks for posting, Timothy. This says something I have said before and thought for some time, but wasn't able to articulate with NEARLY the skill. I do believe that satan is smart enough to shift his tactics according to the surrounding culture and does so as needed.I agree with you both.

The demon today may be much harder to identify as he may enter your house as a friendly face on TV with words which "tickle the ears". You won't be able to identify him as a demon as he won't be writhing on the ground and frothing at the mouth but making grandiose promises instead.

2Ti 4:3-4
(3) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
(4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

:fear

[Timothy]

..The demon today may be much harder to identify as he may enter your house as a friendly face on TV with words which "tickle the ears"...

Satan is an imitator... just as God operates in "mystery" form today, so do I believe Satan does...

[Abiding in Him]

Thanks, Timothy....

Some of those WOFer's sure do have 'beady eyes'!!!

[Blessed4ever]

I myself have witnessed a demon possed woman while in Argentina on a mission trip this summer. I have shared about it before but I will say this......it looked like something straight out of the NT. She appeared to be having a seizure. It turned out that she had been involved in witchcraft and voo-doo and had only been coming to church for about a month. Every time she came to church she would have a "seizure" her friends had taken her to the hospital in the times before and the doctors could find NOTHING medically/physically wrong with her. That whole night is a long story but we prayed over her, read the Word, exalted the Name of the Lord and tried to encourage her to confess and repent. She had opened the door to what possesed her, she was going to have to rebuke it herself. I can tell you that night as it progressed weird and gross things happend while we prayed and praised and exalted His Name..........whatever was in her could not stand it.

It was nothing like the Exorsist movie but it was freaky and nothing about it was unlike what I have read in the Word about demon possesion.

She was not delivered that night but we learned after we got home that a few days later she was in fact delivered and was saved.

Alls I can say is it was real........at the time I was not afraid, but the enemy tried his best to prey on me with fear after all was said and done. I in fact became very oppressed afterwards and became physically sick before I was supposed to speak at the women's camp.

All turned out well, God Himself was in control. I just wanted to share what I had experienced and assure you it's real and it does happen in our times.

eta: okay it was a BIT like the Exorcist movie but I don't want to sensationalize it because there were many things about that movie that weren't Biblical.

[antitox]

Not questioning you necessarily, Anti, but was wondering about your biblical backing for these statements? Or are you basing them on stories about exorcisms?

My own experience as well as events in my church. I believe that experience in ministry can carry a little more practical weight than what people merely interpret from scripture in their own minds without getting out there and actually doing it.

[carmen]

My own experience as well as events in my church. I believe that experience in ministry can carry a little more practical weight than what people merely interpret from scripture in their own minds without getting out there and actually doing it.Thanks for your explanation :):