Anger ...

[Pagal]

I have a brother that well let's just say his additude STINKS.

Our father certainly wasn't a good role model and to say the least the behavior was learned. However, he is 37 years old and there is NO EXCUSE for his outburts.

He is overly dramatic, feels free to go off the handle at member of his family causing the most DRAMATIC scene over his lost keys, or this or that. He expects everyone to cater to his every whim and need and verbally abuses everyone around him. He will say he's sorry a million times but NEVER changes. The kicker is when he's around people he wants to impress suddenly he's calm, kind and gentle, giving etc to put on the SHOW. :puke2 He goes out of his way to help people but if I call and ask, "can you help mom paint this weekend" He wailes, "Come ooooon, there is a game on, DONT BOTHER ME" what da ya want? Oh come on, " And it usually ends with me saying FORGET IT .

He has been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder but honetly, I think that's a load of crap. I believe it's 100% spiritual. How is a man who claims to be a christian to express all BAD FRUIT.

I'm going to write him a letter. Can any of you offer me some Biblical advice on some points I can make in Gods word?

[blitzkreig]

I think you need to get a really solid understanding of Bi-polar disorder before you get too angry with his actions. Is he on medication? Can you speak to his doctor and find out how to deal with him?

.

[Pagal]

I dunno Blitzkreig. I think his bi-polar is a load of hockey pucks in all honesty. If he truely had this disorder.......then why would be suddenly be able to "control himself " as Mr. Nice Guy at church and to his friends but be a beast to his own famiy when he "lets his hair down?"

I think it's spiritual. But I appreciate your advice

[WisdmInTheWorks]

I dunno Blitzkreig. I think his bi-polar is a load of hockey pucks in all honesty. If he truely had this disorder.......then why would be suddenly be able to "control himself " as Mr. Nice Guy at church and to his friends but be a beast to his own famiy when he "lets his hair down?"

I think it's spiritual. But I appreciate your advice

Pagal our pastor gave a Sunday night study on anger. This is the book he used. I wasn't there for it (wish I was and had taken my teenage son). However, one of the men who had a terrible anger problem (a deacon in the church also) testifed that while or shortly after the study, the Lord delivered him from his anger. Perhaps this will interest your brother.

http://http://store.iblp.org/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IBLP&Product_Code=P4&Category_Code=B

[Mommy2KandM]

Why do you think bi-polar disorder is a load of Hockey Pucks?

My FIL is Bi-polar and you can tell immediately when his prescription levels need to be changed (happens every so many years usually) or if he forgot to take a pill.

If you have not already I would take Blitz idea and do some research on Bi-polar disorder and see if it helps you look at it from a different point of view. Not saying it makes it easier to deal with the outburst.. believe me..I know they can be bad, being in a family with someone who has it. And often the outburst leaves family members being verbally and emotionally abused. The disorder doesn't make it ok, or mean you have to just sweep the behavior under the rug. But it does help to know that sometimes it really isn't about the person being attacked at all.

Does your brother take medication for it? If he does it should help quite a bit. And if it isn't helping.. then maybe he needs a different prescription or different mix of medications.

[Mommy2KandM]

If he truely had this disorder.......then why would be suddenly be able to "control himself " as Mr. Nice Guy at church and to his friends


I am not sure.. but I do know that often my FIL feels a great need to put on a show about himself in front of his colleges and friends. I really think what it is about for my FIL is him feeling negative about himself for having the disorder, and hating what he may have said after an outburst. So he goes over board in the impression area with those who don't know he has it to help boost his own ego. Perhaps it helps him see himself the way they see him if he does it. :noidea

[coltrek]

Matthew 24:12
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,


His heart has grown cold, he need to melt his waxy heart by the fire of repentance.

[sandy111]

selfishness? and needs to repent....and work on it.

Is he a Christian?

[Timothy]

Can any of you offer me some Biblical advice on some points I can make in Gods word?

These two studies may have some information that you can use...

Freedom from Anger
By Pastor John Fredericksen
Appeared in The Berean Searchlight
May 2000 Issue
Published by Berean Bible Society

Conflict is a part of life. It is inevitable that we will face situations that will evoke the hot emotion of anger within us. When this happens, we're not alone. Everyone experiences anger from time to time. In fact, many individuals in the Bible became angry. Remember when Moses returned from Mt. Siani with the ten commandments written by the finger of God upon tablets of stone? Upon seeing the idolatry and nakedness of Israel, in anger he broke those tablets (Ex. 32:19). Remember when the ark of God was being moved on a cart and Uzzah touched the ark to keep it from falling (II Sam. 6:6)? The Lord immediately struck him dead for touching what was holy, but David became angry with God over Uzzah's life being taken. Remember the Scriptures often refer to the Lord as being angry (i.e. righteous anger)? Psalm 7:11 tells us, "God is angry with the wicked every day." Mark 3:5 also refers to the Savior who "looked round about on them (the Pharisees) with anger, being grieved for their hardness of heart."

With these examples in mind, we should not be surprised when we sense anger in ourselves or see anger in others. In fact, it would be unrealistic not to expect to have some angry interaction even with those who are close to us in life. With family and close friends we have more frequent contact, have higher expectations, and feel more at ease to be frank about everything. Sometimes this familiarity brings conflict, but it's normal especially in families. Remember when Miriam and Aaron "spake against Moses" (in Num. 12:1) because of his wife and position of leadership? Even families and friends sometimes have conflicts that result in an angry outburst. When this happens, it does not mean we don't love the one who is the object of our anger, or that we're not loved when we face the anger of another. It doesn't even mean that the emotion of anger is wrong in itself. What it does mean, however, is that a problem exists that must be handled in a mature and godly manner. To help us know how to deal with these difficult situations, God has provided principles in His Word to guide us. If we choose to apply these principles, relationships can be preserved, the Lord will be honored, and our lives will be happier. So let's discover what God has to say about how to deal with anger and choose to follow His counsels.

Choose to be Slow to Anger. No one can make us become angry, we allow ourselves this indulgence. God expects each of us to have "rule over his own spirit" (Prov. 25:28). That means we must not allow ourselves to become easily or often provoked. Young people today would say, "take a chill pill." God puts it this way: "he that is slow to anger is better than the mighty: and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city" (Prov. 16:32). Anger quite often leads to a loss of control in things we say and do. Unfortunately we can't take either back, and we can do irreparable damage. So memorize verses like Proverbs 14:29, "he that is slow to wrath is of great understanding, but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly." (See also Eccl. 7:9; James 1:19).

Choose to Avoid Friendships With Angry People. Like it or not, we are influenced by those with whom we spend time. Bad attitudes, being easily offended, and quick tempered responses are things that will easily rub off on us. That's why God's counsel is "make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go: lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul" (Prov. 22:24). We can save ourselves, our friends, and our families a lot of unnecessary grief by following this simple rule from the Lord.

Choose to Carefully Consider if your Anger is Legitimate. For all of us, the truth is that many times our anger is not warranted. We're quite capable of being too easily agitated, having wrong perceptions, making mountains out of mole hills, or simply having a wrong attitude. When God's servant Jonah fled from the task he'd been entrusted with, "then said the Lord, doest thou well to be angry" (Jonah 4:4). Like Jonah, we too can have a wrong perspective in things, and become angry when it is entirely unnecessary. A reasonable and godly response, at the onset of angry emotions, is to think the matter through from both sides, and listen carefully to what others are trying to tell us.

Choose to Delay Actions and Words Until in Control. One of the worst things to do when we're upset is to react immediately. Delaying any response, even for a few moments, gives us an opportunity to pray about what to say, and how to handle our situation correctly. As believers, we need to strive for godliness even in stressful situations. If we're not in control of ourselves or able to allow God to control what and how much we say - then we're not ready to proceed. When the time is right our words should be limited and chosen very carefully. Our standard must be that of Proverbs 29:11, "a fool uttereth all his mind, but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards."

Choose to Avoid Sinful Responses. In Christ, we have both the capability, and the responsibility to avoid sinful responses. The Lord tells us when we are angry to "sin not," (Eph. 4:26a). During times of heightened emotions we're more vulnerable to sin and excess. Threats, shouting, violence, hurtful words, and attempts to get even are natural responses to anger. But believers have a higher calling and must choose to do right. Therefore, Psalm 37:8 urges us to "cease from anger and forsake wrath, fret not thyself in any way to do evil." Even when we've been wronged, we must do what is right.

Choose Confrontation When Warranted. We're going to be pretty hard to live with if we travel this road too often. But sometimes it's really necessary. When the Corinthians were guilty of flagrant sin, Paul wrote them a strong letter confronting them with their wrongs. But notice he did so out of "anguish of heart" (II Cor. 2:4). He certainly did not relish the task. Moreover, his goal was not merely to give them a piece of his mind. In every line you can see that his goal was RESTORATION, with both his words and tone enhancing that goal. When it is necessary, and when done correctly, let's remember two standards to follow: "if a man be overtaken in a fault...restore such an one in a spirit of meekness" (Gal. 6:1), and whenever possible, "debate thy cause with thy neighbor himself, and discover not a secret to another" (Prov. 25:9).

Choose to Respond Softly to Anger. This does not mean that you allow others to walk over you or that you give the appearance of being wrong. It simply means that you are choosing to deal with your anger, or the anger of another, in a Christlike way. Moreover, the approach of a bull in a china closet will only aggravate everyone, and makes any constructive resolution more difficult. But calm words with a calm approach will set the stage for meaningful dialogue, therefore, we must remember, "a soft answer turneth away wrath, but grievous words stirreth up strife" (Prov. 15:1).

Choose to Pass Over an Offence when Possible. We always have this option, and it should be exercised more often than any other. Doing so demonstrates maturity, love, spiritual growth, and balance. An unwillingness or inability to allow love to "cover the multitude of sins" (I Pet. 4:8), or annoyances we find in others, reveals that many times the real problem is with ourself, more than anyone else. Proverbs 19:11 explains "the discretion of a man deferreth his anger: and it is his glory to pass over a transgression." Making this decision does not mean we deny being hurt, or agree with a wrong. It means we are choosing to be guided by love, that we're allowing God to right any wrong, and trusting God to enable us to forgive without holding a grudge. When possible, this is a liberating decision that leads to our own spiritual growth, not to mention greater harmony with others.

The subject of dealing with anger is complicated enough that other pertinent things could also be included. Some might suggest making a commitment to always ask for forgiveness once realizing we were wrong. Others believe some kind of an accountability system to family or a mature Christian, helps. In unresolved instances of anger, biblical precedence exists for appealing to members of the local church in an attempt to find a better resolution. Each of the above suggestions can serve as a deterrent to anger, and an incentive to strive for restoration.

If God has spoken to your heart about the problem of anger and the excesses that accompany it, then praise His holy name! You have just taken the first step toward victory. Now, despite any failures in the past, don't give up; look up to God in prayer, asking Him to help you find freedom from anger by implementing the biblical principles we've just studied. He's waiting for your cry, and when you come to Him with a sincere heart He "is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us" (Eph. 3:20).

Freedom from Bitterness
By Pastor John Fredericksen
Appeared in the September 1999 issue of Berean Searchlight

Each of us struggles against the emotion of bitterness when someone treats us with insensitivity or selfishness. But bitterness is like a cancer to our soul. Hebrews 12:15 tells us it can greatly “trouble you, and thereby many [can] be defiled.” Therefore, we must follow God’s biblical path to freedom from the emotion of bitterness. It is the path of H-E-A-L-I-N-G!

Healing begins by HANDING the offender over to God! Romans 12:17-19 reminds us “Vengeance” is God’s job, and in His wisdom He “will repay” the wrongdoer. Our obligation is first, “to recompense to no man evil for evil.” Getting even only sinks us deeper into bitterness.

When EMOTIONS are given to God, healing continues. That means we act and react on the basis of biblical instruction, instead of on how we feel. It also means we forgive the offender, so that we can heal. Positive emotions will eventually follow right actions.

ACCEPTING the consequence of the offense is critical for healing. Few wrongs can truly be undone, so we have to live with it anyway. Believers can trust that our sovereign God can use even hurtful situations to our good. Therefore we can accept the wrong.

LOOKING for God’s lesson in the midst of trial also speeds the healing process. It enables us to take our focus off of what makes us bitter, and place it on to how God wants to make us better!

INVESTING good in the offender is the next step toward healing. Romans 12:20-21 tells us “if thine enemy hunger, feed him...be not overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.” Not only is it hard to stay bitter toward someone you’re truly trying to help, it’s also difficult for a wrongdoer to continue to hurt us when we’re doing them good.

NOTING our responsibility in Scripture to forgive, is a powerful force in destroying bitterness. If we “have a quarrel against any” our obligation is to forgive “even as Christ forgave you” (Col. 3:13). This is not the natural thing to do, but we have supernatural strength to draw upon, especially when following the above steps to freedom.

GOING on with life is the last step to healing bitterness. Instead of reliving the past offense over and over again, we can make the spiritual decision to leave the past behind us and go on. After doing everything else God has told us to, He will enable us to focus on serving the Lord in the present and the future.

If this subject and study has struck a chord of need in your life, you may want to reread the account of Joseph in the book of Genesis. He followed all seven of these prin-ciples after being terribly wronged, and it enabled him to heal. But perhaps the thing you need to do first is prayerfully begin right now to implement what you have just learned. “The peace of God” is waiting to “rule in your hearts” (Col. 3:15), if you only will.

[antitox]

Well, Pagal, I think you are right about the BP junk. About half the people that come into our city jail are diagnosed "bi-polar" and for the most part they are just undisciplined.

The boy needs his butt kicked and some life discipline. This is what most kids growing up don't get today and they are SO immature and spoiled that they do just what the folks in the jail do; -throw fits.

[Bigdaddy]

Why do you think bi-polar disorder is a load of Hockey Pucks?

My FIL is Bi-polar and you can tell immediately when his prescription levels need to be changed (happens every so many years usually) or if he forgot to take a pill.

If you have not already I would take Blitz idea and do some research on Bi-polar disorder and see if it helps you look at it from a different point of view. Not saying it makes it easier to deal with the outburst.. believe me..I know they can be bad, being in a family with someone who has it. And often the outburst leaves family members being verbally and emotionally abused. The disorder doesn't make it ok, or mean you have to just sweep the behavior under the rug. But it does help to know that sometimes it really isn't about the person being attacked at all.

Does your brother take medication for it? If he does it should help quite a bit. And if it isn't helping.. then maybe he needs a different prescription or different mix of medications.

Maybe Pagal just thinks a lot of junk in his brother's situation?:confused I know BP is a legitamate concern for some people but there seems to be, IMHO, a lot of people "requiring" medication today that don't really need it. My own son was "diagnosed" with ADD by his counselor's at school, what made them qualified to diagnose it is beyond me, and my wife and disagreed with them. We took it upon ourselves to change his study habits and helped him improve his reading skills and lo and behold, he no longer had ADD according to the counselors.

While not speaking for everyone else, I believe in our society today, people don't want to own up to their own faults and responsibilities. It's ingrained in our minds that "we're only acting the way we're made to act". Bologney! I agree with what Antitox says. People need to take the reigns on controlling their kids and stop depending on schools, churches and whatever "latest and greatest" book comes out by today's newest genius.

[blitzkreig]

Paygal I really couldn't offer a legitimate opinion regarding your brother. I'm not sure how anyone else here can in so far as I don't think we know your brother personally ... at least I don't.

However I do feel compelled to comment in a very general way.

Satan has the ability to inflict upon us both mental illness and physical illness. One can be as as real as the other.

We wouldn't all be chirping in and saying that Cancer is a whole lot of hobunk and a Cancer sufferer should be gettin' up off their duff and just suck it up. I believe it is unwise for us to say that of a mental illness is as well.

It doesn't show off our sensitivity or love in any way I can figure.

And worse, there are maybe right now a couple dozen mental illness sufferers reading this thread who are becoming more and more discouraged by the minute.

If we observed that a certain Cancer patient has periods of remission and they can get along just fine in society when they do ... why can't they just do that all the time? ... can you see how "uninformed" that would make us sound?

A little like Tom Cruse and the Christian Scientist crowd?

In the mean time I think your concern regarding your brother is valid and you should talk with him and see if you can meet with his physicians with the goal of understanding why he does what you say he does. If for no other reason than your relationship.

.

[Pagal]

Blitzgrieg and Mommtwo2,

I should have been a bit more clear in my original email and it appears my comment has understandibly been misunderstood. When I said that my brother's bi-polar disorder was a bunch of hockey pucks, I was in NO way making a generalized statement that the disorder itself was not a real, uncontrolable disease.

What I MEANT (but didn't make clear,) was that in the case of my brother, knowing him as I do and seeing that he's been on a thousand and one combinations of every known medication and it's done nothing but make it worse.....I do not believe he has this disorder.

I apologize for minimizing anyone's experience . I should have been a bit mroe clear.

What I do believe is unfortunatly MANY people are diagnosed with mental illness when in fact their emotional problems (anger, depression, anxiety etc) are a result of their spiritual condition. In the case of my brother , I believe this to be the case.

I'm certainly not God, and I'm certainly not a physician and I'm the first one to admit I could be 100% WRONG on my thoughts. I'm not trying to be judgemental. Just trying to figure out how to help someone I love who is in SEVERE BONDAGE.

I just don't know the answer. THere are days when I think , maybe this IS a mental illness but on the other hand I think it's a cop out.

Like I said, if he can "put on the Mr. Nice Guy" show when he's around other people than that PROVES that he indeed has 100% self control over his actions, emotions etc. If someone sincerely could not control their behavior due to a mental disorder this would not be the case.

Regardless of whether he has this condition or not, God can deliver him from it right?

[Mom2Mayhem]

He has been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder but honetly, I think that's a load of crap. I believe it's 100% spiritual. How is a man who claims to be a christian to express all BAD FRUIT.

I'm going to write him a letter. Can any of you offer me some Biblical advice on some points I can make in Gods word?

The Word says to "put off" things like anger and malice and to "put on" things like kindness, compassion, love, etc. I will have to find the scripture, but we are to do this--and the Holy Spirit will help. He needs to repent. He obviously does NOT think it is wrong.
Here is one scripture:

"Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. GET RID of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassinate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:29-32

The word "Christian" means "little Christ"--to me, that means we are to be like Him. (I am in no way saying we are PERFECT) Messing up because we are sinners is one thing, but to continue in sin, is another. There is so much in the Word about dealing with people who are brothers/sisters in the Lord, but do not act like one. If he were lazy, we are told to not treat him like an unbeliever, but to warn him as a brother. Do a Bible study on anger, malice, etc, and see what you come up with.

PS added:
When I was younger (17), I too had an anger problem. I would cry out to the Lord though for Him to help me, and all I would seem to get back from Him was "Read My Word". I ignored it though....until one night. This one night, a friend who was my mother's age, invited me to a house meeting that was going to hear this man from Romania speak. Mind you, he could not even speak English, and his grandson interpreted the whole thing. He gave his testimony--VERY, VERY powerful!!! He suffered much for the Lord, and here he was in Grants Pass, OR giving his testimony to about 50 people crammed into this house. :): It was awesome. Afterward, I wanted to go up and talk to him and ask him what he thought I should do about various things going on in my life, etc. While I was waiting in line, I was shaking from head to toe, my heart was racing, and my knees felt like they were going to buckle!!! Later I realized the Holy Spirit was the One making me feel this way because this man had such an annointing and presence of the Holy Spirit!!! Anyhow, when I finally got up there, and said my "speech"--his poor grandson interpreting it all. I gave my long diatribe, and this man said MAYBE what I thought was a sentence to which his grandson said in english: "Quit watching boob tube and read your Bible." ROTFL!!!! I kid you not. I was like, "That is ALL you are going to tell me????" I was not too happy, but I went home that night with alot going on in my head. That night, I told the Lord this: "Ok, Your Word says that Your Word is sharper than a two edged sword, that it is able to divide soul from spirit and bone from marrow, and that it will judge the thoughts and attitudes of my heart--now if THIS IS TRUE, if I read it, something WILL happen. But if this is NOT true, then nothing will happen, and there is NOTHING I can do about it." So I stepped out in faith and read the whole book of Colossians. Mind you, I was not a faithful "read a chapter a day" person. I read Colossians, and then about a week later, I read Ephesians and then maybe two weeks later, I read Phillippians. But ONE day, I don't remembe what I was doing, but it was like the Lord had to open my eyes to it, because I was oblivious. But the anger inside of me that felt like chains--it was gone. He had healed me through His word. So to this day, I KNOW the importance of reading His word. You tell your brother he needs to spend time in the Bible. Just keep encouraging him to do it. It WILL change him. I know.

[Mom2Mayhem]

While not speaking for everyone else, I believe in our society today, people don't want to own up to their own faults and responsibilities. It's ingrained in our minds that "we're only acting the way we're made to act". Bologney! I agree with what Antitox says. People need to take the reigns on controlling their kids and stop depending on schools, churches and whatever "latest and greatest" book comes out by today's newest genius.

AMEN! I 100% agree!

[Servant]

Pagal, I will not comment on the BP or not as others have covered that aspect. :): I will however, comment on the idea of writing him a letter. In all honesty, it will probably not help a single bit. While it may make you feel better (short-term) to 'get things off your chest' it will probably not be received well. :sigh In his mind, you will just be 'picking on him'. I say this from hard learned experience.

I had horrible issues with my mom for years (a christian woman BTW), she consistantly made snide comments about my husband/family/life choices and frequently suggested that I divorce. When I had enough, instead of talking with her, lovingly, about my concerns I wrote her a letter and let her have it. It was NOT well received. Following the letter we had two years of NO CONTACT. None whatsoever. While the two years without contact was not necessarily bad (:heh) it only ended when I humbled myself and went to her to apologize. Do I feel that I had anything to apologize for? No, not for the letter or the feelings expressed within, but it was the only way to heal the rift in the family. My children (and my father and my sister and her family) had ended up paying the price for me airing my feelings in this way.

Getting your feelings about his behavior out by writing them down may indeed be helpful. But my best suggestion is that you not send it. The consequences can be long lasting and may affect people beyond just you and your brother.

That being said, does not mean that you have to tolerate or approve of his bad behavior. But confronting him in a letter is not (IMHO-only) the best way of dealing with it.


:):

[bopeep1909]

He has been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder but honetly, I think that's a load of crap. I believe it's 100% spiritual. How is a man who claims to be a christian to express all BAD FRUIT.

Think again........Bi-Polar disorder is not a load of crap:yell it is very real. Is diabetes a load of crap? Are heart attacks a load of crap? The brain is also a very important part of the body and things go wrong with it sometimes. It is very common to have severe anger outbursts with this disorder. If your brother is not seeing a reputable therapist or getting the appropriate medications he needs to be on you or your family had better do that ASAP.<><

[Servant]

Think again........Bi-Polar disorder is not a load of crap:yell it is very real. Is diabetes a load of crap? Are heart attacks a load of crap? The brain is also a very important part of the body and things go wrong with it sometimes. It is very common to have severe anger outbursts with this disorder. If your brother is not seeing a reputable therapist or getting the appropriate medications he needs to be on you or your family had better do that ASAP.<><


bopeep, calm yourself down then read what pagal actually said. :tsk She is not questioning the validity of Bi-Polar in general, only in the case of her brother due to a long history with him, seeing him on various medications...


Breathe-in, breathe-out... Breathe-in, breathe-out...

[antitox]

Think again........Bi-Polar disorder is not a load of crap:yell it is very real. Is diabetes a load of crap? Are heart attacks a load of crap? The brain is also a very important part of the body and things go wrong with it sometimes. It is very common to have severe anger outbursts with this disorder. If your brother is not seeing a reputable therapist or getting the appropriate medications he needs to be on you or your family had better do that ASAP.<><

It may be real, but in most cases I have seen alot of crap.

[bopeep1909]

It may be real, but in most cases I have seen alot of crap.

Define "crap".

[Servant]

:spy

[Medic911]

Look. It's simple.

Bipolar disorder is real, but many people malinger and use such a diagnosis as a crutch and as an excuse for all sorts of bad behavior. This doesn't mean that there aren't people who are genuinely tormented by it.

It's just like back pain. I don't think anyone would be so stupid as to claim that it doesn't exist, and that it isn't very debilitating to many people... but there are obviously people who use it as an excuse to get out of work and other responsibilities.

I have no opinion on the specific individuals in question because I don't know them or their histories... but as for the issue of whether bipolar disorder is real or not, and as for this issue of whether or not there are *some* individuals who "fake" it or otherwise use it as a crutch, it's no different than back pain.

Common sense 101.

[bopeep1909]

bopeep, calm yourself down then read what pagal actually said. :tsk She is not questioning the validity of Bi-Polar in general, only in the case of her brother due to a long history with him, seeing him on various medications...


Breathe-in, breathe-out... Breathe-in, breathe-out...

He has been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder but honetly, I think that's a load of crap. I believe it's 100% spiritual.

Servant let me review the above message for you.<><

[antitox]

Define "crap".

I see genuine discipline problems in the jail I work at where a significant amount of inmates are "bipolar." They go days without their medication and are no different than when they came in. The only ones that really show serious problems are the ones who really are bipolar. Doctors are diagnosing bipolar patients who really don't have anything other than disciplinary issues and throw their fits and insecurity behaviors from having gone so long without any discipline in their lives. They can't stomach discipline, they're always drugged, and they're LAZY. They end up 45 years old, still living at home with mom, and NO JOB.
This is no different than the over-diagnosing that was done with ritalin in the grade schools. They are treating disciplinary reactive behavior with a drug. Wrong philosophy.
I have had friends whose children were diagnosed with ADD and other behavioral problems. They decided not to go with the drug, and put their kids in my karate class for an extended period, they gained discipline, and they are some of the best kids out there now.
We had a really messed up boy who was indeed handicapped, crazy, could not control himself, could hardly relate to people. His parents would leave him at the karate studio for training regularly, and it's been a few years now and he's still there helping out.(the parents see the difference, that's why he's still there). The owner loved the boy, included him in everything, and taught him routinely. The result is absolutely remarkable. Sure because of his mental handicap, it took longer, but he's become intelligent, responsible, and takes care of things at the front desk. If you could see the difference, it would blow your mind.

This would not have happened on ritalin or prozac., or anything else but a little love and discipline. Everything that happens behaviorally is not solved with chemicals, most of it is the result of the failure to instill proper growth and maturity.

[bopeep1909]

Look. It's simple.

Bipolar disorder is real, but many people malinger and use such a diagnosis as a crutch and as an excuse for all sorts of bad behavior. This doesn't mean that there aren't people who are genuinely tormented by it.

It's just like back pain. I don't think anyone would be so stupid as to claim that it doesn't exist, and that it isn't very debilitating to many people... but there are obviously people who use it as an excuse to get out of work and other responsibilities.

I have no opinion on the specific individuals in question because I don't know them or their histories... but as for the issue of whether bipolar disorder is real or not, and as for this issue of whether or not there are *some* individuals who "fake" it or otherwise use it as a crutch, it's no different than back pain.

Common sense 101.

That is why a person needs a professional evaluation. A person who is genuinely mentally ill would trade their life in a minute for someone who had a mind that was not sick. <><

[Servant]

bopeep, let me review the message for you
I should have been a bit more clear in my original email and it appears my comment has understandibly been misunderstood. When I said that my brother's bi-polar disorder was a bunch of hockey pucks, I was in NO way making a generalized statement that the disorder itself was not a real, uncontrolable disease.

What I MEANT (but didn't make clear,) was that in the case of my brother, knowing him as I do and seeing that he's been on a thousand and one combinations of every known medication and it's done nothing but make it worse.....I do not believe he has this disorder.

I apologize for minimizing anyone's experience . I should have been a bit mroe clear.

What I do believe is unfortunatly MANY people are diagnosed with mental illness when in fact their emotional problems (anger, depression, anxiety etc) are a result of their spiritual condition. In the case of my brother , I believe this to be the case.

I'm certainly not God, and I'm certainly not a physician and I'm the first one to admit I could be 100% WRONG on my thoughts. I'm not trying to be judgemental. Just trying to figure out how to help someone I love who is in SEVERE BONDAGE.

I just don't know the answer. THere are days when I think , maybe this IS a mental illness but on the other hand I think it's a cop out.

Like I said, if he can "put on the Mr. Nice Guy" show when he's around other people than that PROVES that he indeed has 100% self control over his actions, emotions etc. If someone sincerely could not control their behavior due to a mental disorder this would not be the case.

Regardless of whether he has this condition or not, God can deliver him from it right?


Now, calm yourself down! :mod

[bopeep1909]

I see genuine discipline problems in the jail I work at where a significant amount of inmates are "bipolar." They go days without their medication and are no different than when they came in. The only ones that really show serious problems are the ones who really are bipolar. Doctors are diagnosing bipolar patients who really don't have anything other than disciplinary issues and throw their fits and insecurity behaviors from having gone so long without any discipline in their lives. They can't stomach discipline, they're always drugged, and they're LAZY. They end up years ols, still living at home with mom, and NO JOB.
This is no different than the over-diagnosing that was done with ritalin in the grade schools. They are treating disciplinary reactive behavior with a drug. Wrong philosophy.
I have had friends whose children were diagnosed with ADD and other behavioral problems. They decided not to go with the drug, and put their kids in my karate class for an extended period, they gained discipline, and they are some of the best kids out there now.
We had a really messed up boy who was indeed handicapped, crazy, could not control himself, could hardly relate to people. His parents would leave him at the karate studio for training regularly, and it's been a few years now and he's still there helping out.(the parents see the difference, that's why he's still there). The owner loved the boy, included him in everything, and taught him routinely. The result is absolutely remarkable. Sure because of his mental handicap, it took longer, but he's become intelligent, responsible, and takes care of things at the front desk. If you could see the difference, it would blow your mind.

This would not have happened on ritalin or prozac., or anything else but a little love and discipline. Everything is not solved with chemicals. Everything that happens behaviorally is not solved with chemicals, most of it is the result of the failure to instill proper growth and maturity.

Their are hundreds of people in jails and out on the street who have mental illnesses(Bi-polar, paranoid schizophrenia) who's families did not care and have said"you are too weird for me". The problem is that many have drug and alcohol addictions because that is the way they have learned to cope(self medicating themselves). Their are alot of jealousys amount siblings of people who are mentally ill because they think the ill brother or sister is getting more attention than they are.<><

[bopeep1909]

End of the subject on my part. Thank you for listening to my side. We will have to agree to disagree on this subject.<><

[antitox]

Their are hundreds of people in jails and out on the street who have mental illnesses(Bi-polar, paranoid schizophrenia) who's families did not care and have said"you are too weird for me". The problem is that many have drug and alcohol addictions because that is the way they have learned to cope(self medicating themselves). Their are alot of jealousys amount siblings of people who are mentally ill because they think the ill brother or sister is getting more attention than they are.<><

We have to take medical info on every person that comes in to ensure that we are not liable or that we do not neglect something life threatening. What you have stated is not the majority. Every now and then we will get a schizophrenic, but the bipolar diagnosed individuals are more common. Most are thieves, drug dealers and users. Ya gonna fix that with a drug?

[Pagal]

Bo Peep,

As servant clarified, I didn't say the disorder was a load of crap......I said in my BROTHERS case, I didn't think that was his problem. i even clarified that later on when there was some confusion.

Take a breath. :Pat

[blitzkreig]

Pagal I think what Servant said, and what I know that I said ... was to be very careful ...

It all took a different turn after my sister took an over dose of prescription drugs and then put a plastic bag over her head ... until ... she smothered herself to death ...

Then all sorts of things came rushing back ...

Things we wish we had said.

Things we wish we had done.

Things we wish we hadn't said.

Things we wish we hadn't done.

The phrase ... "Take a breath" ... even sounds familiar ...

What is schizophrenia anyway? Voices in your head? That sounds like demons to a bunch of ill informed relatives. Sheesh. :confused

She was brought up the same as all my other sisters. She was in Christ. Saved. Suddenly an illness. A "mental" illness.

Hey. All we are saying is be informed. Be careful.

:yo

.

[joyttw]

Having someone very close to me with an anger problem, I can relate to the feelings Pagal has described.

Pagal, you mentioned he says he's sorry a million times but never changes. I would say the fact that he says he's sorry at least shows he knows it's wrong, and he acknowledges that.

The person I know with an anger problem also apologizes. He's been on Zoloft for 4 years, it's helped a lot but not completely. He thinks if he were spiritual enough, he wouldn't need Zoloft. But when he's tried to go without it, it gets worse again.

Even though he still gets angry, the episodes have gotten fewer and far between.

I know some people would characterize him the same way you have characterized your brother. But I know his heart -- he struggles with anger the way others struggle with overeating or other issues of self-control. It doesn't mean he's not a Christian!

I say give your brother the benefit of the doubt. Forgive 70 x 7.

[Pagal]

Ya know what? Alot of times, people just answer threads with their emotion and what they THINK you mean or say and obviously don't pay much attention to your words.

I never speculated he was NOT a christian, I never said that BI-Polar disorder was NOT a real disease, I never made a reference that ALL mental disorders are demons.

What I DID ask was for some insight on what I thought MAY be more of a spiritual /self control issue.

For some reason a few of you are more detarmined to make some snide comments or put words in my mouth so rather than argue over different opinions, we should just close the thread.

Forget I asked? :rolleyes.

[joyttw]

Pagal,

I think I was addressing the issue you raised. I think if you asked your brother (face to face and not in a letter) if he felt it was a spiritual/self control issue, he'd probably agree with you. Although, he might rightfully argue that it's not as easy for him to exercise self-control in this area as it might be for you and others. His version of the flesh just happens to be a lot more yucky looking as other people's flesh. (i.e., my self-righteous flesh might not be as obvious to identify, but it's still my flesh!) And even if he doesn't have bipolar disorder, he does still have fleshy habits that he might struggle with his whole life. Doesn't excuse the behavior, of course, but then if he is apologizing for his behavior it sounds like he doesn't excuse it either.

[bopeep1909]

Their are hundreds of people in jails and out on the street who have mental illnesses(Bi-polar, paranoid schizophrenia) who's families did not care and have said"you are too weird for me". The problem is that many have drug and alcohol addictions because that is the way they have learned to cope(self medicating themselves). Their is alot of jealousy among siblings of people who are mentally ill because they think the ill brother or sister is getting more attention than they are.<><

[Pagal]

:rolleyes

I assume your suggesting I muss be jealous.

whatever

[blitzkreig]

For some reason a few of you are more detarmined to make some snide comments or put words in my mouth so rather than argue over different opinions ... rolleyes.No perhaps some of us are concerned about the dozens ... or perhaps even hundreds who might have read this forum and identified themselves with your brother in your post ...

Maybe some have a family member of their own who has labelled them, because of their behaviour, and has accused them of being "wicked" when all they are is sick.

You have to remember when you are posting it isn't always about "you". You may think you are the centre of the topic but you might only be an incidental player.

Private conversations are best conducted face to face or perhaps over private email ... not on a public forum if that was your intention.

If you ever want to feel blessed I suggest you take an afternoon and visit a Psychiatric ward in a hospital.

When I do, I think ... "there but for the Grace of God ... go I".

.

[Pagal]

,
You have to remember when you are posting it isn't always about "you". You may think you are the centre of the topic but you might only be an incidental player.

Private conversations are best conducted face to face or perhaps over private email ... not on a public forum if that was your intention.

Blitz,

First of all, I posted a QUESTION. That's what we do many times in this forum. I was not trying to have a private convo with someone??

Secondly, I did make it very clear that my QUESTION was if (in my brothers case) this could be a spiritual issue. I made it CLEAR that I was not making a blanket statment on BPD and I NEVER called anyone who was mentally ill WICKED.

I don't understand your comment I made it all about ME?? Of course it was, My question pertained DIRECTLY to MY family member and MY questioning of others if they had some experience with this and to help me through some of my questions.

Apparently others made it about THEM. Alot of people disagreed with it being spiritual and they did so in a gentle and diplomatic way. HOWEVER, others Instead of being able to talk in a loving and open way about some different views on this matter, made it more of a personal attack on ME for even bringing it up.

As christians, there will be times when we will not agree. Sprinkle vs dunk, OSAS, etc. Honestly , the bible tells us to TEST everything. And that's what I was doing. I was looking for an answer. We together should be able to do that EVEN if we disagree WITHOUT attacking the other.

:yield This is my last post. This thread is simply not edifying to anyone at this point. Let's agree to disagree.

God Bless

[Ponderin]

For some reason a few of you are more detarmined to make some snide comments or put words in my mouth so rather than argue over different opinions, we should just close the thread.




Pagal your post made sence to me.

Though I can not be exactly sure who is on what, here nor there. Sometimes, I think people do like to blame everything but themselves.

Could be your brother is doing that too.

:noidea


:grouphug

[MovinOnUp]

praying for your brother.

:lock

:grouphug.

[bopeep1909]

Blitz,

First of all, I posted a QUESTION. That's what we do many times in this forum. I was not trying to have a private convo with someone??

Secondly, I did make it very clear that my QUESTION was if (in my brothers case) this could be a spiritual issue. I made it CLEAR that I was not making a blanket statment on BPD and I NEVER called anyone who was mentally ill WICKED.

I don't understand your comment I made it all about ME?? Of course it was, My question pertained DIRECTLY to MY family member and MY questioning of others if they had some experience with this and to help me through some of my questions.

Apparently others made it about THEM. Alot of people disagreed with it being spiritual and they did so in a gentle and diplomatic way. HOWEVER, others Instead of being able to talk in a loving and open way about some different views on this matter, made it more of a personal attack on ME for even bringing it up.

As christians, there will be times when we will not agree. Sprinkle vs dunk, OSAS, etc. Honestly , the bible tells us to TEST everything. And that's what I was doing. I was looking for an answer. We together should be able to do that EVEN if we disagree WITHOUT attacking the other.

:yield This is my last post. This thread is simply not edifying to anyone at this point. Let's agree to disagree.

God Bless

Yea lets:lol <><