In serious need of Board's knowlege and help.......

[Charles Bennett]

I have what I consider to be a serious problem, and although I've only been a member of this board for a short time I have come to the conclusion that the majority of you seem to be true Christians. I myself was raised a Southern Baptist but only recently, about a year ago, did I come to truely know the Lord and become Born Again into the Body of Christ. My spiritual progress since this wonderful event I owe mainly to Les Feldick, a television Bible teacher. He got me through some really tough times in the beginning because although my first encounters were with John Hagee and Charles Stanley I found myself craving the written Word and started watching, of all things, 'Shepherd's Chapel' and hour long presentations of Seventh Day Adventists. Not knowing much myself I was easily fooled into thinking that their ravings were Biblical, especially the Adventists because of their obvious book knowledge ( not THE Book ) and as with most of us, I suppose, I am easily impressed with someone who is considerably more intelligent than I am. It didn't take much of Shepherd's Chapel for me to see on my own what they were all about when they started talking about pre-existing souls in a 'warehouse' and Eve having sex with Satan, but the Adventists were less obvious, even to the point of making me doubt the Rapture. Les Feldick, quite literally, stepped in and 'saved' me.
I learned an important lesson from it all and am STILL learning. Just 2 weeks ago I learned what WOF preachers were with the help of this board and have since visited several sights that expose various groups, and was shocked to find out that Kenneth Copeland was one of the worst, and was absolutely amazed at all the blatant false doctrines he promotes - if I didn't know better I'd sware he was a member of the church of satan.......
My problem is this : I wasn't following Copeland and knew little if anything at all about him until a couple weeks ago, only that my Father-in Law has been an avid follower of his for many years. He's in his seventies and has suffered since a teenager from having severe polio. He's read his Bible for 50 years as religiously as a law student studies law books and has more faith and love for God, I believe, as Billy Graham does. He's severly disabled and can just barely get around without the use of a wheelchair, which he's managed to so far stay out of, and works as hard as any man I've ever known. He's an accountant/auditor for a large University in Georgia and if ever there was a man who could or should collect dissability it's him - just 3 months ago he was forced to retire but continues to stay on semi- part time, like 15 hours a week. He's a walking testiment if there ever was one.
I happen to know he's a Copeland follower because years ago when I became disabled myself from a car accident he sent me a beautiful Bible and some little booklets that Copeland had written, designed to take one
day by day, one page of 'words of wisdoms' at a time, through the year. They sat on a shelf along with the Bible until a year ago.
After looking through them this past week I was unable to find any obvious deception. I was very dissappointed because according to the information on 3 seperate websites this puppy has got some warped, non-scriptual ideas on Christianity as I have come to know it. I won't drag this out because my intention is not to bash Copeland, but for those who don't know what I'm talking about and are interested I suggest information-(http://www. letusreasonministries.org under Popular Teachers and http://www.bereanfaith.com under Word of Faith and then Quotes by Author ) - to emphasize the urgency of my position, however, I'll just say that he claims that Jesus was the first Born Again MAN, that God Himself told him that he himself, Kenneth Copeland, as a born again man could have accomplished the same thing on the Cross that Jesus did, that Jesus WAS NOT BORN GOD, it wasn't until after He was baptised and received the Holy Spirit that His Deity began, and that we don't have God IN us, we ARE God. I'm only passing on what I read, and I read it in several different places.......
My Father-in Law is a very intelligent man and most of you are probably thinking, and rightly so, that a true Christian could never be drawn into such heresy. All of this stuff was said back in the late eighties and early nineties, though, and even though he's followed him for many years he may not be immediately aware of his true color. This is the only explanation I can come up with, because I'm about as sure as a body can be that he's in the dark on this. Three months ago him and his precious wife ( who by the way has never liked Copeland but doesn't know why ) stopped by to visit with their daughter for the day on their way to a David Jeremiah deal, sorta celebrating his retirement. My wife and I just recently moved up here from Florida about a year and a half ago so we saw them for the first time since my oldest daughter got married down in St. Augustine nearly 2 years ago - I mention this because Bill and I talked for several hours and he himself told me to be very careful about who I watched on Sky Angel, being a new Christian and all. I also shared my basic beliefs with him, which can pretty much be summed up in the teachings of the Word according to Les Feldick (he's 100% scriptual and if he has a personal interpetation of something that isn't clear or elaborated on he's careful to call it for what it is ), and as it was my intention to see if he thought I was on the right track because I respect his knowlege and life-long dedication greatly, and thinking back now I have a hard time believing that he could believe or condone any of the dangerous nonsence that spews from the likes of Kenneth Copeland. Also, when I asked him if he would like copies of some of Les Feldick's material he said that over the years he had accumulated enough tapes ( most of which I'm sure are Copelands' ) to last the rest of his life, as he never had time to watch them before now - his name should be in the dictionary under work-aholic -
My dilemma stems from the knowlege of how subtle and deviously clever Satan can be - better yet, let me put it in a personal experience. I'm 51 years old and grew up on late sixties Rock 'n Roll, idolizing the likes of Jimi Page, Hendrix and Santana. As of a few months ago I had accumulated in excess of 800 CD's, and even after my Born from Above experience they all remained a prized exibit in a special built wood wall unit , even though I had strangely lost the desire to listen to them. Then I saw " They Gave Their Souls for Rock 'n Roll ", a two part, ten hour special on Sky Angel. The first time it aired I was REALLY fresh on the Christian scene, not very sure of alot of things, and quit watching it after about the first hour. They were seriously putting down groups and individuals that I had admired, loved and yes literally idolized for nearly 40 years and I went through a major denial at first. Groups like Black Sabbath, now that was different and you'd have to be pretty blind not to admit what they were all about, but Jimi Page ? George Harrison ? I had a Beatle collection any fan would drool over - but 3 months later when it aired again my faith and love for our Lord and Saviour had grown considerably, and when I heard my heroes admit out of their own mouths the massive deception that went on at that time it absolutely floored me........Don't mean to start a whole new discussion or cause someone to write and challenge the fact - the proof's in the DVD and to deny it a person would have to be so blind he couldn't be reading this in the first place. My point is I'm afraid that if Bill is indeed in the dark about Copeland, and as I said earlier I'm sure he IS, if I try and tell him about it or even refer him to the site, because of his love for Copeland he may not even read such 'propaganda' and internet lies, if you follow my drift, and think that I'M the one who is grossly deceived and in need of guidance, and as a result may even harm our relationship, which would hurt me deeply. Despite all the jokes and what-nots about ones' wifes' parents I happen to love and respect my two inlaws a great deal. And I'm very concerned that Copeland has his claws in deep enough to allow him to slowly sink them deeper and cloud his better judgement. Being the Christians I feel most of you are, probably with personal experiences of your own, I don't think I need to elaborate on that possible danger any further.
I welcome any help I can get and let me thank all the members before hand - May God continue to bless us all......

[gzusrulzme]

hello Charles! God is good isn't he? I also was greatly deceived by certain churches/teachers on the tv. for years i would deny the claims and not believe it until my eyes were truly opened to the truth. I cannot judge any one of them for their beliefs/teachings, but I surely wouldn't want that blood on my hands if I were them.

I admire the fact that you are concerned for your family member and their following of this pastor. I would be concerned too. You seem to hold alot of respect for him, and I assume that he holds respect for you in return. So why not just come out and tell him how you feel? What would be wrong with just asking him to listen with an open heart and mind to your findings and then let him make his own decisions? You can pray about this and just let your spirit guide you with the words to use in this situation. Surely, your family member will not hate you for your opinions, and you may be surprised at what he actually feels.

I pray the best for you whatever you decide to do about it. Some people will still hold onto what they believe to be the truth no matter what anyone says to them, so it may take his own time to figure this all out. so i would be patient about it and not be afraid to talk to him openly.

[desiree37]

Hi Charles! It's good to have you here at Rapture Ready.

I can relate to a lot of what you shared. My mom gave her life to Jesus in 1969, so I know she was saved. She lived it and shared the gospel with other people every chance she got. But, she was also very much into the WoF movement, and Copeland was one teacher she listened to often.

No matter how often I tried to show her the error in their teachings she wouldn't hear it. She recently passed away, August 26, from lung cancer. One of the hardest things about it, for me, was that she really struggled to understand how God would allow her to have a terminal illness.

I'm sure when He welcomed her home He lovingly explained to her why she'd suffered and why He didn't "heal" her physical body as she'd prayed.

I guess the best thing I can suggest for you to do is to pray for your in-laws daily and ask the Lord to reveal the truth to them. I really think that once people are sucked into the WoF message, it's really hard for them to get free of it. So, pray for them, and I'll keep you and them in prayer as well.

[lhaney92]

http://stargods.org/AngelicWolvesCopeland.jpg

"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock" Acts 20:29

[lhaney92]

Welcome to the family Charles!!!!!!!! (((HUGS))) I have to get the kiddos ready for bed, but later when I have time I'll post some info on Pastor Copeland.

[lhaney92]

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."
Matthew 7:15
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not."
2 Peter 2:1-3
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
1 John 4:1

KEN COPELAND:
"Jesus went into hell to free mankind from the penalty of Adam's high treason...When His blood poured out it did not atone. Jesus spent three horrible days and nights in the bowels of this earth getting back for you and me our rights with God."
(Ken Copeland, Personal letter from Ken Copeland, Ft. Worth Texas, March 12, 1979. (D. R. McConnell, A Different Gospel <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1565631323/qid=1082252811/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-8548538-0250341?v=glance&s=books>, page 118)

"Not only did Jesus pass the test Adam failed, but He also paid the price for Adam's treason---He made Himself obedient unto death, paid the price in the punishment of hell for Adam's sin...In His victory over death, Jesus became the first born-again man of many who would be born in the image of God."
(Kenneth Copeland, "Fullness: God's Plan For His Family," BVOV Magazine, July & August 2004, page 34)

"The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, 'Son, realize this. Now follow me in this and don't let your tradition trip you up.' He said, 'Think this way - a twice-born man whipped Satan in his own domain.' And I threw my Bible down...like that. I said, 'What?' He said, 'A born-again man defeated Satan, the firstborn of many brethren defeated him.' He said, 'You are the very image, the very copy of that one.' I said, 'Goodness, gracious sakes alive!' And I began to see what had gone on in there, and I said, 'Well now you don't mean, you couldn't dare mean, that I could have done the same thing?' He said, 'Oh yeah, if you'd had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did, you could have done the same thing, 'cause you're a reborn man too."
(Dr. John MacArthur, "Charismatic Chaos, <http://store.yahoo.com/grace-to-you/charchaos.html>" page 337. Kenneth Copeland, "Substitution and Identification")

"God's on the outside looking in. He doesn't have any legal entree into the earth. The thing don't belong to Him. You see how sassy the Devil was in the presence of God in the book of Job? God said, 'Where have you been?' Wasn't any of God's business. He [Satan] didn't even have to answer if he didn't want to."
(Hank Hanegraaff, "Christianity in Crisis <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1565071514/ref=pd_sbs_b_1/104-8548538-0250341?v=glance&s=books>" page 488. Ken Copeland, "Image of God in You III," Video tape #01-1403)

"What [Why] does God have to pay the price for this thing? He has to have a man that is like the first one. It's got to be a man. He's got to be all man. He cannot be a God and come storming in here with attributes and dignities that are not common to man. He can't do that. It's not legal."
(Hank Hanegraaff, "Christianity in Crisis <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1565071514/ref=pd_sbs_b_1/104-8548538-0250341?v=glance&s=books>" page 138-139. Ken Copeland, "The Incarnation," 1985)

"Why didn't Jesus openly proclaim Himself as God during His 33 years on earth? For one single reason. He hadn't come to earth as God, He'd come as a man."
(Dr. John MacArthur, "Charismatic Chaos, <http://store.yahoo.com/grace-to-you/charchaos.html>" page 336. Ken Copeland, "Believers Voice of Victory," Magazine August 8, 1988, page 8)

"I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is...The biggest one in the whole Bible is God...I mean, He lost His top-ranking, most anointed angel; the first man He ever created; the first woman He ever created; the whole earth and all the fullness therein; a third of the angels, at least - that's a big loss, man....Now, the reason you don't think of God as a failure is He never said He's a failure. And you're not a failure till you say you're one."
(Ken Copeland, Audio-Clip "Christianity in Crisis," Hank Hanegraaff)

"Now here's the part I want you to get. When He said, "It is finished," on that cross he was not speaking of the plan of redemption -- the plan of redemption had just begun. There were still three days and three nights to be gone through before He went to the throne."
(Ken Copeland, "What Happened From The Cross To The Throne." The atonement of christ and the “faith” message, Christian Research Institute <http://www.equip.org/free/DP060.htm>)

"The righteousness of God was made to be sin. He accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own spirit. And at that moment that He did so He cried, 'My God, My God, Why hast thou forsaken me?' You don't know what happened at the cross. Why do you think Moses, upon instruction of God, raised the serpent upon that pole instead of a lamb? That use to bug me. I said, `Why in the world would you want to put a snake up there - the sign of Satan? Why didn't you put a lamb on that pole?' And the Lord said, 'Because it was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross.' He (Jesus) said, 'I accepted in my own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off'."
(Dr. John MacArthur, "Charismatic Chaos, <http://store.yahoo.com/grace-to-you/charchaos.html>" page 338. Ken Copeland, "What Happened From the Cross to the Throne?")

"The righteousness of God was made to be sin. He [Jesus] accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own Spirit. And at the moment that He did so, He cried, 'My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?'"
(Hank Hanegraaff, "Christianity in Crisis <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1565071514/ref=pd_sbs_b_1/104-8548538-0250341?v=glance&s=books>" page 499. Ken Copeland)

"I've had ugly books written about me because I said that Jesus died spiritually, but the fact is, I didn't say that–the Bible said it. Jesus became our substitute. If he hadn't died spiritually, then we could never have been made alive spiritually. But He did! On the cross, Jesus was separated from the glory of God. He allowed Himself to be made sin for us, and He became obedient to death. He went into the pit of hell and suffered there as though He was the One Who had committed the sin."
(Ken Copeland, "The Power of His Resurrection <http://kcm.org/studycenter/articles/seasonal/power_of_resurrection.php>")

"You don't have a god in you, you are one!"
(Hank Hanegraaff, "Christianity in Crisis <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1565071514/ref=pd_sbs_b_1/104-8548538-0250341?v=glance&s=books>" page 110. Ken Copeland, "The Force Of Love Audiotape," 1987)

:mad :yell :twitch :tsk

[CountryBumpkin]

I think that it is very important to talk to him about your concerns. Even if he reacts negatively, when he again listens to Copeland's teachings he will remember what you said and perhaps begin to search for the truth.

[lhaney92]

Charles,

I have experienced severe heartbreak during my walk as a Christian. One of the most painful experiences is when I watch a loved one follow a false teacher. I'll lovingly try to warn them and more often than not, I am rebuked and often verbally attacked. Usually, I try in earnest two times to warn someone then I leave it in God's hands.

I have lost relationships due to WOF, Manifested Sons of God, Seeker Sensitive Movement, etc... When you choose to be a good Berean and study God's Word you soon find that life is not going to be a cake walk. Three years ago, my grandmother who adores Copeland, Hinn, and many others, sat me down and told me that a person needs Christ to a point then they don't need him anymore because they can attain Godhood themselves. She rebuked me for being in the "outer court" and for believing in the "satanic lie" of the rapture. (*You'll often notice that Satan will attack anything relating to our blessed hope or the importance of studying the end times.) I am constantly attacked for being a terrible Grandchild, because I don't like to go visit with her anymore. I serve Christ and Him only and sometimes the cost will be high in this world.

Another painful episode has been my mother in law. One day she told me that so and so's new book was like "God's love letter to her". I told her that God only wrote her one love letter and it is the Bible. She also mentioned the other day that so and so was her "spiritual leader". Well, the Lord has some great wisdom in His Book:

Interestingly, in the exact middle of the Bible we find:

It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man. Psalm 118:8

When we put man or man's ideas on a pedestal, we are asking for trouble.

Sadly, more often than not, warnings go unheeded.

The Lord told us that when we choose to truely follow Him it will cost us. He said that it would even divide households.

He also gave us this wisdom:

In John 10:5, Jesus tells us that His sheep will never follow a strangers voice! This is an enormous statement.

"But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." John 10:5:nod

Another key factor is the pride element. In every person I confront that is listening to a false teacher they refuse to be humble and admit that they might possibly be decieved. Some people do humble themselves and examine the evidence and test it to the Word of God, but it is becoming more and more rare. Most people in this world don't want to take the time to really be a good Berean and study The Word. Without doing that, everyone is at the mercy of wolves. When we look to the heros of our faith we see over and over again how humble they were.

Charles, I thank God for your salvation in Christ Jesus!!! :clap I pray that the Lord will use you and keep you safe till He calls us home! I believe the rapture is so soon, so I'll see you when we get home!

A Sister in Christ,
Lori

[Christine]

Hi Charles and let me also add my welcome. :):

Copeland has led a lot of people astray about the scriptures with his teachings about us being on equal footing with Christ, Christ being the first born again man, and yes, God being the biggest failure in the bible. Copeland teaches that we control God.

Scripture teaches that when we humble ourselves to God, and pray to be in His will (and for His will), and that we will be blessed.

This is not to say that anyone following a Copeland blessing is not saved, or not a Christian -- but it is to say that they are missing out on a HUGE blessing from truly getting to know the Lord. The Lord of the bible. The Lord who cried out to Israel to stop the legalism and seek HIM. Jesus never railed against paganism or other false religions -- his focus was on the Jewish leaders (the church of that day) for turning faith in God into faith in mortal men and religion (their formulas for 'success')

Copeland will answer for this teachings (as we ALL will one day), his saved followers will be called into question at the believer's judgment, BEMA, for their relationship with the Lord and their actions in that regard. Were they seeking the Lord, or were they seeking men?

Many are called out of WoF -- and from reading their testimonies, all I can say is (from personal observation) that it is because they realized the Lord is/was seeking more from them -- a deeper relationship. When their hearts are ready to truly know God and not just following someone's teachings about God, the blinders about WoF seem to come off and they realize that they are not on the path the Lord wants them on.

Just my opinion on this from all I have seen (and the testimonies I have read) from folks who walked from those teachings and the deeper relationship they found in the Lord for doing it.

Your FIL may be ready for a conversation on this topic, he may not be. Only you will know how and when to approach him with your concerns.

My recommendation is that you NOT refer him to websites, but TALK to him about your concerns. bereanfaith.com is my site, and it is written as a library for Christians to educate themselves about WoF and other religions (apologetics). It is not written as a seeker friendly site, but moreso a place where those seeking to arm themselves with the basics of the various teachings can learn about the variances.

For a good, well rounded article that expresses the concerns about WoF, I highly recommend "Ten Reasons to Reject Word of Faith" by Tricia Tillin. It is a short and hard hitting summation of why these teachings are a concern. Here is a link -- I hope it helps you get your arms around all of this:

http://bereanfaith.com/articles.php?action=article&id=12

God bless. :hug

[kjlistrom]

I think that we all go thru this with loved ones, any way you don't stand alone
One thing is we can't change them, but God can. We have prayer and the Holy Spirit to guide us. If we can get the courage up to plant the seed, than the Holy Spirit can do his work in them and they come seeking answers. Whats the seed? Thats what prayer is for.

[Big Daddy]

Praise God, HE is great.

Start with prayer.
You, with your trust in Christ can call on God to move your FIL to hear His call.
I will pray too.

Point out Acts.17:11 to him.
Ask your FIL to help you study God's Word with that verse as a starting point.

Always keep Christ in the center of your study.
Suggest that you have some material (Les's) that you want to go over with him, so you can get his take on it. Let God and the Holy Spirit do their work.

Les Feldick is very good.
I love him.
You know, you can call him and talk to him about your concerns for your FIL and see what he suggests too.

Oh yeah, pray. Did I say that? :thumb
As believers, we have a direct personal relationship with our Father, and can call on Him for anything, if it be according to His Will.

I think it's God's will that all should come to Him through Christ.

You and him will both be blessed by studying together.

Call Les.

[My Abba's Child]

http://stargods.org/AngelicWolvesCopeland.jpg

"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock" Acts 20:29

OH MY!! The look on that man's face... he looks like a vampire going in for the kill!! :freaked Yikes! I just got a huge chill!! I tried to watch this guy a couple of times when I was first saved... his exclamation of "GLOWRY TA GOD!" every 30 seconds kinda turned me off... thank the LORD! :laugh

In His love,

[Charles Bennett]

First let me explain why I have yet to respond to any of the great and thoughtful letters that were written over the past few days - an unavoidable problem came up that required all my attention and unfortunately money as well. My house is solely dependant on a drilled well for all my water needs and it just up and quit working. What a nightmare ! When we moved up from Jacksonville a year and a half ago we purchaced what is called a land/home package deal and although everything else was new and had to be incorperated and installed the well and pump was already on the property ; they just had to hook up the electric and run all the piping and until a couple days ago we had the sweetest mountian spring water you could ask for. Maybe I bragged too much about not having a water and sewer bill !
Anyway, thank you all for all the responses. I guess what I had done most WAS pray about it, and with your help and the Holy Spirit's I've decided to ask him questions in such a way as to determine how deep Copeland has his claws in, like I'm asking for advice. Like, Was Jesus the first Born again man, or was it really finished on the Cross as Jesus SAID IT WAS or did He have to battle with satan in misery for 3 days. If he answers contrary to Copeland's teachings, as I pray and think he will, I'll send him some links that will expose him. If he's Copelinized I'll ask him to show me, in the Bible, where it's Scriptual. As I have yet to do this I welcome any comments or further suggestions - I figure on doing it this Sunday after he gets home from Church. Again, thank you all so very much.......
By the way, My Abba's Child, that pic is indeed a sight to behold - maybe I'll just enlarge it, make his eyes red and send THAT to him - !

[architectlink]

Hi Charles, Welcome to the board and thanks for your post.

Could you possibly go back and edit your initial post, by separating the paragraphs with spaces, because it is so difficult for me to read past the first paragraph with such a long post.

BTW, I worked for 9 years with the SDA's (7th Day Adventists) and you are right on target with their misguided philosophies, although I believe that there are many saved Christians today who were raised SDA or Catholics, etc...and that the Lord is now opening their eyes and ours.

As far as Copeland goes, we ran into him at the Grove Park Inn before we were saved--prancing around in leather pants and gussied up, didn't strike me as anything more than a televangelist then and I've not listened to him for more than five minutes. He reminds me of Joel Osteen. We will pray for your FIL to open his eyes and they will be opened in God's timing. Remember, God does the saving and we do the praying and it is out of our hands.

Bless you and thanks for posting...hope to read further if you can edit it!

Blessings!

[Mountain Girl]

Sometimes, a truth simply stated is powerful.

Just tell him that you are troubled in your spirit about some of the statements/teachings that you've read by Copeland, and ask him if you could talk to him about it.

He's probably never heard some of these statements before.

[Charles Bennett]

Architecklink - Sorry about the formation of my post - When I originally wrote it I did so on a Stickie and DID seperate things with paragraphs, indentions and all, and didn't notice until you pointed it out that copy/paste doesn't retain the original intended format. I see now that is is indeed hard to follow. Let me try something.......


I have what I consider to be a serious problem, and although I've only been a member of this board for a short time I have come to the conclusion that the majority of you seem to be true Christians. I myself was raised a Southern Baptist but only recently, about a year ago, did I come to truely know the Lord and become Born Again into the Body of Christ. My spiritual progress since this wonderful event I owe mainly to Les Feldick, a television Bible teacher. He got me through some really tough times in the beginning because although my first encounters were with John Hagee and Charles Stanley I found myself craving the written Word and started watching, of all things, 'Shepherd's Chapel' and hour long presentations of Seventh Day Adventists. Not knowing much myself I was easily fooled into thinking that their ravings were Biblical, especially the Adventists because of their obvious book knowledge ( not THE Book ) and as with most of us, I suppose, I am easily impressed with someone who is considerably more intelligent than I am. It didn't take much of Shepherd's Chapel for me to see on my own what they were all about when they started talking about pre-existing souls in a 'warehouse' and Eve having sex with Satan, but the Adventists were less obvious, even to the point of making me doubt the Rapture. Les Feldick, quite literally, stepped in and 'saved' me.
I learned an important lesson from it all and am STILL learning. Just 2 weeks ago I learned what WOF preachers were with the help of this board and have since visited several sights that expose various groups, and was shocked to find out that Kenneth Copeland was one of the worst, and was absolutely amazed at all the blatant false doctrines he promotes - if I didn't know better I'd sware he was a member of the church of satan.......

My problem is this : I wasn't following Copeland and knew little if anything at all about him until a couple weeks ago, only that my Father-in Law has been an avid follower of his for many years. He's in his seventies and has suffered since a teenager from having severe polio. He's read his Bible for 50 years as religiously as a law student studies law books and has more faith and love for God, I believe, as Billy Graham does. He's severly disabled and can just barely get around without the use of a wheelchair, which he's managed to so far stay out of, and works as hard as any man I've ever known. He's an accountant/auditor for a large University in Georgia and if ever there was a man who could or should collect dissability it's him - just 3 months ago he was forced to retire but continues to stay on semi- part time, like 15 hours a week. He's a walking testiment if there ever was one.
I happen to know he's a Copeland follower because years ago when I became disabled myself from a car accident he sent me a beautiful Bible and some little booklets that Copeland had written, designed to take one day by day, one page of 'words of wisdoms' at a time, through the year. They sat on a shelf along with the Bible until a year ago.

After looking through them this past week I was unable to find any obvious deception. I was very dissappointed because according to the information on 3 seperate websites this puppy has got some warped, non-scriptual ideas on Christianity as I have come to know it. I won't drag this out because my intention is not to bash Copeland, but for those who don't know what I'm talking about and are interested I suggest information-(http://www. letusreasonministries.org under Popular Teachers and http://www.bereanfaith.com under Word of Faith and then Quotes by Author )

To emphasize the urgency of my position, however, I'll just say that he claims that Jesus was the first Born Again MAN, that God Himself told him that he himself, Kenneth Copeland, as a born again man could have accomplished the same thing on the Cross that Jesus did, that Jesus WAS NOT BORN GOD, it wasn't until after He was baptised and received the Holy Spirit that His Deity began, and that we don't have God IN us, we ARE God. I'm only passing on what I read, and I read it in several different places.......

My Father-in Law is a very intelligent man and most of you are probably thinking, and rightly so, that a true Christian could never be drawn into such heresy. All of this stuff was said back in the late eighties and early nineties, though, and even though he's followed him for many years he may not be immediately aware of his true color. This is the only explanation I can come up with, because I'm about as sure as a body can be that he's in the dark on this. Three months ago him and his precious wife ( who by the way has never liked Copeland but doesn't know why ) stopped by to visit with their daughter for the day on their way to a David Jeremiah deal, sorta celebrating his retirement. My wife and I just recently moved up here from Florida about a year and a half ago so we saw them for the first time since my oldest daughter got married down in St. Augustine nearly 2 years ago.

I mention this because Bill and I talked for several hours and he himself told me to be very careful about who I watched on Sky Angel, being a new Christian and all. I also shared my basic beliefs with him, which can pretty much be summed up in the teachings of the Word according to Les Feldick (he's 100% scriptual and if he has a personal interpetation of something that isn't clear or elaborated on he's careful to call it for what it is ), and as it was my intention to see if he thought I was on the right track because I respect his knowlege and life-long dedication greatly, and thinking back now I have a hard time believing that he could believe or condone any of the dangerous nonsence that spews from the likes of Kenneth Copeland. Also, when I asked him if he would like copies of some of Les Feldick's material he said that over the years he had accumulated enough tapes ( most of which I'm sure are Copelands' ) to last the rest of his life, as he never had time to watch them before now - his name should be in the dictionary under work-aholic -

My dilemma stems from the knowlege of how subtle and deviously clever Satan can be - better yet, let me put it in a personal experience. I'm 51 years old and grew up on late sixties Rock 'n Roll, idolizing the likes of Jimi Page, Hendrix and Santana. As of a few months ago I had accumulated in excess of 800 CD's, and even after my Born from Above experience they all remained a prized exibit in a special built wood wall unit , even though I had strangely lost the desire to listen to them. Then I saw " They Gave Their Souls for Rock 'n Roll ", a two part, ten hour special on Sky Angel. The first time it aired I was REALLY fresh on the Christian scene, not very sure of alot of things, and quit watching it after about the first hour. They were seriously putting down groups and individuals that I had admired, loved and yes literally idolized for nearly 40 years and I went through a major denial at first. Groups like Black Sabbath, now that was different and you'd have to be pretty blind not to admit what they were all about, but Jimi Page ? George Harrison ? I had a Beatle collection any fan would drool over - but 3 months later when it aired again my faith and love for our Lord and Saviour had grown considerably, and when I heard my heroes admit out of their own mouths the massive deception that went on at that time it absolutely floored me.

My point is I'm afraid that if Bill is indeed in the dark about Copeland, and as I said earlier I'm sure he IS, if I try and tell him about it or even refer him to the site, because of his love for Copeland he may not even read such 'propaganda' and internet lies, if you follow my drift, and think that I'M the one who is grossly deceived and in need of guidance, and as a result may even harm our relationship, which would hurt me deeply. Despite all the jokes and what-nots about ones' wifes' parents I happen to love and respect my two inlaws a great deal. And I'm very concerned that Copeland has his claws in deep enough to allow him to slowly sink them deeper and cloud his better judgement. Being the Christians I feel most of you are, probably with personal experiences of your own, I don't think I need to elaborate on that possible danger any further.
I welcome any help I can get and let me thank all the members before hand - May God continue to bless us all......

[My Abba's Child]

By the way, My Abba's Child, that pic is indeed a sight to behold - maybe I'll just enlarge it, make his eyes red and send THAT to him - !

I don't think you'd have to do any changes to that picture to get your idea across, Charles. :laugh Most people think that any change to a picture makes the whole picture suspect.

I hope you have your water situation worked out... there's few things that are worse trouble than not having running water!! :rolleyes

In His love,

[Creeper]

Greetings to you Charles, welcome to Rapture Ready!

I just wanted to add, I have a daughter that loves Copeland and all his buddies. I have tried to talk with her about their false teaching, but she won't hear me....:cry Now she won't even speak to me, its been years.
I can only pray about it, and know that some day Jesus will reunite us.
I have not seen my grandchildren in about 7 years now. She married a man that was raised in the WOF way, and she is convinced he is right and I am wrong.:cry

Les Feldick is one of the best Bible teachers out there! I hope you get your FIL to listen to him and get away from Copeland, I will pray for this to be easy for you, and your FIL to accept what you are telling him.

[Julie E]

word of faith doctrine does not work in a crisis...but faith in the word of God does....it is not our words that 'create' but our 'faith in the creator'....Jesus...Jesus is the Creator ...God is still the same faithful God...even when we walk through the vally of the shadow of death....WOF doctrine basicly tells you not to confess or even say the word death...if this were true...then Jesus would never have said 'when i walk through the valley of the shadow of death....i will fear no evil...

[Julie E]

another thought...Jesus is the Word...'in the beginning was the word...1 John...and the Word was with God and the Word was God..it also says that all things were created by Him......later it says the Word became flesh...this is the proof that Jesus is the Word...and that Jesus is God....part of the trinity...if Jesus is the Word....then it would be an interesting study to look at his words....the Word of Faith Doctrine says that words have power..sooo dont say the negitive...etc...what did Jesus say?...what words did he use?....interesting

[lhaney92]

I just wanted to add that I also think Les Feldick is a precious saint. He is so humble and that is why God can use him so mightily. I once heard him say that if you are reading any book that says it can transform your life and it's not the Bible to just put it straight in the trash can, because only the Word of God has the power to transform a life. Great advice!

It's so neat how he just keeps it simple, he opens up the Bible, takes a literal approach to it's meaning, and you grow from it so much.

Now...

Compare that to Copeland's teachings which are full of himself and man being exalted and Christ being lowered. Here is a man full of pride.

[Cognac]

Satan uses our ego against us.

For example, your admission "I suppose, I am easily impressed with someone who is considerably more intelligent than I am." is the focus here. You don't have to be intelligent, it's a disadvantage when it comes to God.

9:10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. 9:11For by me thy days shall be multiplied, and the years of thy life shall be increased. 9:12If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: but if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it.

The bible makes the distinction between intelligence and wisdom. And as stated here in Proverbs, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Intelligences is often depicted as foolishness before God; "1:7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."



So for my words of wisdom for you, I'll say this:
Your bible is the only source you can trust for correct information. Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance while reading it, and you can't go wrong. YOU CAN'T GO WRONG.

That's what I believe anyway....

[BeachBeliever]

Charles (waving at you from Jax/Atl.Bch):

This is what happens when we focus on and raise up MEN instead of the Father, our Savior Yeshua, and His Inerrant Word.

Men are just that: MEN. Fallible. Human. Imperfect. Capable of Sin, Error, Deceit and Being Deceived.

They will disappoint you EVERY TIME if you hold any one of them up above any of the others.

Until we receive our new bodies, our glorification/purification - the Promise of that which we have on Deposit now, through our Salvation and being Born Again in Messiah Yeshua - we are INCAPABLE of living a PERFECT, sinless life.

(I know you know this <grin> )

Therefore, do not hold up MEN .... hold up the WORD of G-d; hold up our Savior, Messiah Yeshua; hold up the FATHER ... hold up the Fruits of the Spirit and strive for them - look for THEM in men - but know that only Yeshua walked in ALL of them FULLY ALL the TIME.

My Dad is a huge, old-time Copeland fan too ..... but, I know if he read what KC's been saying these last several years, he'd swear up & down that it was either lies or a misprint........he wouldn't believe it.

I just STAY AWAY from focusing on the MEN (and WOMEN). My Dad has a terrible habit of setting his eyes (and, I believe, heart - and perhaps, soul as well) on Them .... and he is ALWAYS (eventually) disappointed, disillusioned and his faith is rocked as well.

This is of SATAN/The Enemy.

Don't do it.

My prayers are with you and your family,
Beach