Should Christians be watching PG 13 movies?

[Diane Donnelly]

Hi everyone. I am asking your opinions because my daughter and fiance' think it's fine to watch PG 13's with all of it's sex and bad language, including taking the Lord's name in vain. I told them they were lukewarm and just like the world. They are both going to Liberty University next year and he's is studying to be a pastor. I have a real problem with these movies, always have and I would like your Opinions! Thanks.

[SteelRoots]

Well as long as your daughter and future son in law (Congrats to them both :hug ) know that the material is wrong, and not to indulge into it and emulate it, then I see no problem. If it is a very very very dark movie with mostly sex and blasphemy, then I'd say no. Considiring not ALL PG-13/R movies are all bad things, and have some substance and plot to them, I wouldn't rule them out.

I'm sure the university has a policy on it just like most Bible Colleges do, but my opinion, let them use their judgement, many Christians can enjoy movies that have some suggestive material, and most of them know when a movie is too much.


-Matt.


...I think this goes in Christian Chat. :B:

[LDinthewoods]

We had a conversation on this some time ago & one poster provided some good scripture about this very topic:
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=194262

[Grimlock Prime]

My step-dad's mother & sister will tell you that you're going to hell for watch any movie. Or if you're a woman and you wear pants.

[4eversaved]

To the original question: No! PG13 movies of today are like the R rated movies of yesterday.


If you wouldn't want Jesus sitting there watching it with you then think again, because HE basically is.

It always amazes me how Christians will compromise their moral standards when it comes to "entertainment". If it glorifies and depicts sin as the norm then we should not particpate. The sad fact is, is that many Chrisitans have allowed these movies into their lives and into their spirits and have thus become desentisized to the sin within (just as the enemy set out to accomplish).

If you really open up and allow your spiritual eyes to be wide open when picking out a movie at the movie store, you will really be offended/disgusted by the evil that is out there - Moreoften than not, we come out empty-handed.


A good website for reviews is http://www.pluggedinonline.com/

However, when in doubt-do without!

[BHiles]

My step-dad's mother & sister will tell you that you're going to hell for watch any movie. Or if you're a woman and you wear pants.Do they really say this? or is this overstating their views?

What denomination are they?

[4eversaved]

Best reason yet is from Scripture-

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

So watching and enjoying the evil acts, adultrey,fornication, crudeness, cruelty, violence etc in a movie is the same thing as the above Scripture warns about.

You are as guilty enjoying, condoning these acts because you entertain them in your heart.

To all moviegoers:

Stop entertaining these offenses to God and start fleeing from them. Be very picky about what you let go into your mind and into your heart.

[Grimlock Prime]

Do they really say this?

What denomination are they?

Yes & I have no idea.

They're really screwed up too. They totally abuse their five kids with that nonsense. They're constantly being told this or that will send them to hell. One day, the oldest girl in their family took a hot curling iron to her leg and burned herself pretty bad. Close to the bone. The state finally took her away from them.

[Grimlock Prime]

If you watched the original Planet of the Apes you would see more naked human flesh and hear more profanity than in Spider-man 2. POTA was rated G, Spider-man 2 was PG-13.

Just use your common sense. If you don't have any ask someone who does. However, if you're still afraid that watching Spider-man 2 will send you spiraling into a life of unrepentant sin, then you probably have other issues that need to be dealt with than what movie to watch.

[GodwithUS]

I think there may be some websites that are Christain oriented that review movies? Didnt Focus on the Family have this at one time? I know that one of the Christian radio stations here where I live has commentary on some movies. Personally I cant handle any demonism in any movie, but in todays movies there is more than just the demonic at work.

[npkourne]

I think life in general is about rated PG-13.... I think people should worry more about what their children pickup from the kid down the block then a movie.

[archangel01]

Let the holy spirit guide YOU, just like the bible said. It's a conse. matter, just like what paul said about "Days" in Romans....one man hold one day up then another and another person reguards it as just like any other day. I can't interfer with your free will, I can't force what I would do, on you. Just like the morning after pill, now I use to work in a pharm., an what I would said to the woman who was buying it is this, " I can't interfer in your power of choice (Free Will), just because you buying this, doesn't mean you have to go through with it, if you change your mind bring it back weather the box is opened or closed, ok." The women would mostly say "I know and thank you", then I would ring them up. You see, I don't have to explain myself to any human only to God. Beside I don't go by ratings when it comes to movies, you should know what your getting into, just by the title an the section you found it in. I rest my case, and that's my two cent an a dime. :thumb

[springfield]

Also, the ratings system is a totally arbitrary thing where ratings are decided by a small panel of people selected by the board itself. It's often been very obviously biased.

[Gordon b]

If you wouldn't want Jesus sitting there watching it with you then think again, because HE basically is.
There is not much he hasn't seen already.

[DentnDude2]

This may be a radical view but I remember someone in my life saying if the Bible were made into a movie...act for act...word for word, it would be rated X. Mostly for the violence in the OT...well, and the sex that went on as well. Obviously it was usually when Israel was rebelling against God but it is still there nonetheless. Yet we hold no prohibition against Christians reading the OT. Maybe a radical view but food for thought nonetheless.

Jesus did not want us to be removed from the world but wanted us to be the light and salt of the earth. So, one has to ask themselves why they're indulging in these kinds of movies. Star Wars III (the one that just came out) is PG-13 yet it could be a fantastic tool in evangelism...how evil can influence even good people and even about the fall of Lucifer himself. BUT, one would have to have seen the movie in order to use it.

One must always be cognizant of the fact that our liberty in Christ may cause another to stumble (1 Corinthians 8:9). I think this falls into the movies we watch. If a brother/sister is distressed that you watch PG-13 movies...don't watch them when they are around. You are obligated not to cause your brother to stumble in their own minds. We all must be lead by the Spirit in these matters and listen to what He says.

I don't think there is a 100% clear answer to this question. It will be according to what the Lord has to say to each person individually. Now should we be watching porn...of course not...but I think we all know what is being said here.

Just my two cents.

[70thWeek]

This is another issue between an individual believer and God. I watch Pg-13 and R movies, but other people may feel that they need to abstain.

[Dilferthecat]

Most college students think the way your daughter and son-in-law do, IMO - even Christian students. It's not a salvation issue, so just pray for them to be obedient to the Holy Spirit's guidance, and more than likely as time goes by, they will become more and more sensitive to the kinds of movies they watch. For myself, I love movies! But I've noticed that God's Spirit living in me has made many movies unappealing to me anymore. Also, I hate the thought of giving my money to Hollywood. :tsk That alone keeps me away from most movies anymore!

[DJHere]

Hi everyone. I am asking your opinions because my daughter and fiance' think it's fine to watch PG 13's with all of it's sex and bad language, including taking the Lord's name in vain. I told them they were lukewarm and just like the world. They are both going to Liberty University next year and he's is studying to be a pastor. I have a real problem with these movies, always have and I would like your Opinions! Thanks.

What does God's word teach us?

1 And God spoke all these words:
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 "You shall have no other gods before me.

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

Yet they see nothing wrong with paying for and watching others blashpheme God's name?

God's word teaches us:

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things. (Philippians 4)

Does watching these movies cause them to do what these verses from Philippians teach?


Have they read Eph. 4:17-5:10?

17So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.
20You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. 21Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

How can they be made new in the attitude of their minds when they fill their minds with this type of Garbage? Ephesians 4 goes on to state:

29Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Do they not believe the Holy Spirit is grieved when He sees God and His name blashphemed?

And what does Ephesians 5 teach us?

1Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.

Verse 7 specifically states we should not be partners with them but that is exactly what they are when they support these people and such trash with their money. And what do verses 8-10 of Eph. 5 teach us?

8For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord.

Do they really believe watching this trash is pleasing to the Lord? Do they realize they are subjecting the temple of God to this? God's word teaches us:

12"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."[b] 17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. (1 Cor. 6)

How can they be fleeing sexual immorality by watching such things? How can they possibly say they are obeying God and His word when they are endorsing this stuff with their money? How?

[4eversaved]

There is not much he hasn't seen already.


Does He want US to see it is the question-

And would we be comfortable with Jesus sitting there with. Or, for the matter, would you comfortably watch it with your pastor?

A whole lot of people don't want to give up their "fun" or "entertainment" even if it is riddled with offenses to our Holy and righteous Lord.

[Enlightenment]

This may be a radical view but I remember someone in my life saying if the Bible were made into a movie...act for act...word for word, it would be rated X. Mostly for the violence in the OT...well, and the sex that went on as well. Obviously it was usually when Israel was rebelling against God but it is still there nonetheless. Yet we hold no prohibition against Christians reading the OT. Maybe a radical view but food for thought nonetheless.


No doubt. Just read Hosea 1.

2 When the LORD began to speak through Hosea, the LORD said to him, "Go, take to yourself an adulterous wife and children of unfaithfulness, because the land is guilty of the vilest adultery in departing from the LORD." 3 So he married Gomer daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.

[70thWeek]

This may be a radical view but I remember someone in my life saying if the Bible were made into a movie...act for act...word for word, it would be rated X. Mostly for the violence in the OT...well, and the sex that went on as well. Obviously it was usually when Israel was rebelling against God but it is still there nonetheless. Yet we hold no prohibition against Christians reading the OT. Maybe a radical view but food for thought nonetheless.

Jesus did not want us to be removed from the world but wanted us to be the light and salt of the earth. So, one has to ask themselves why they're indulging in these kinds of movies. Star Wars III (the one that just came out) is PG-13 yet it could be a fantastic tool in evangelism...how evil can influence even good people and even about the fall of Lucifer himself. BUT, one would have to have seen the movie in order to use it.

One must always be cognizant of the fact that our liberty in Christ may cause another to stumble (1 Corinthians 8:9). I think this falls into the movies we watch. If a brother/sister is distressed that you watch PG-13 movies...don't watch them when they are around. You are obligated not to cause your brother to stumble in their own minds. We all must be lead by the Spirit in these matters and listen to what He says.

I don't think there is a 100% clear answer to this question. It will be according to what the Lord has to say to each person individually. Now should we be watching porn...of course not...but I think we all know what is being said here.

Just my two cents.


No, you are correct. I would venture to guess that many Christians would not watch a movie made about the Bible, if it presented the stories as they really happened. Even "The Passion" did not come close to the reality of what a crucifixion would have been like.

[SteelRoots]

Look at it this way:

No movie would be up to God's standards. Even G rated movies will have some things God would not approve of. I'm not saying movies should be forbidden, but we can't say that PG-13 Is off limits, cause there is no movie that God would approve of...except the Passion :lol

[Hootmon]

Should Christians be watching PG 13 movies? The rating is largely irrelevant. Its the content that matters.
...except the Passion :lolWhich I believe was rated 'R'...

[sracer]

It's a personal matter for the individual believer. Seek the Holy Spirit's guidance and yield to it and you won't go wrong. God's Holy Spirit ministers to us through God's word, so make sure that your Bible reading and prayer life are in order.

When believers get legalistic, things can go horribly wrong. I see fellow believers who won't let their children see Harry Potter films and yet allow their children to be taught by teachers who engage the students in the practice of Yoga in the classroom! A single viewing of a 2 hour film will do less harm that an entire school year exposed to Eastern religious practices.

Some look to "Plugged In" from the "Focus on the Family" website. I detest that site. Their reviews saw nothing wrong with the Harry Potter films and blasted Scooby Do for a rumor of a scene that was supposedly shot but never included in the film.

[SeaDreamer]

They are both going to Liberty University next year and he's is studying to be a pastor.


Will watching these types of movies be acceptible for a pastor per the standards set forth in 1 Timothy, chapter 3? :):

[archangel01]

The God of the bible would NOT accept the mel gibson movie...why....Because it promotes the gospel of catholicism, which is a gospel of works...another gospel, another jesus. Read the book "Showtime for the sheep" by Dave Hunt, you can find it at there website thebereancall.org

Mel gibson didn't even stick to JUST the gospel of scripture but used the writings of a catholic visionery.Satan will hide a pint of poison in a lake of truth, half-truths equal a Big Lie.

You want to know about Jesus, then go to the Bible which is 100% truth.

[bonnie]

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things. (Philippians 4)

No need to pray about something that is already written :):

[Harley]

Let the holy spirit guide YOU, ...
...and let the Holy Spirit guide THEM.

[Harley]

The God of the bible would NOT accept the mel gibson movie...why....Because it promotes the gospel of catholicism, which is a gospel of works...another gospel, another jesus. Read the book "Showtime for the sheep" by Dave Hunt, you can find it at there website thebereancall.org

Mel gibson didn't even stick to JUST the gospel of scripture but used the writings of a catholic visionery.Satan will hide a pint of poison in a lake of truth, half-truths equal a Big Lie.

You want to know about Jesus, then go to the Bible which is 100% truth.
WOW, I ...oh, never mind.

[Jiggy37]

Best reason yet is from Scripture-

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

So watching and enjoying the evil acts, adultrey,fornication, crudeness, cruelty, violence etc in a movie is the same thing as the above Scripture warns about.Who said they were enjoying the evil acts in a movie? :hrm

[heavenlierealm]

To the original question: No! PG13 movies of today are like the R rated movies of yesterday.


If you wouldn't want Jesus sitting there watching it with you then think again, because HE basically is.

It always amazes me how Christians will compromise their moral standards when it comes to "entertainment". If it glorifies and depicts sin as the norm then we should not particpate. The sad fact is, is that many Chrisitans have allowed these movies into their lives and into their spirits and have thus become desentisized to the sin within (just as the enemy set out to accomplish).

If you really open up and allow your spiritual eyes to be wide open when picking out a movie at the movie store, you will really be offended/disgusted by the evil that is out there - Moreoften than not, we come out empty-handed.


A good website for reviews is http://www.pluggedinonline.com/

However, when in doubt-do without!
saw my movie in there...didnt get very bad review

[Dilferthecat]

The God of the bible would NOT accept the mel gibson movie...why....Because it promotes the gospel of catholicism, which is a gospel of works...another gospel, another jesus. Read the book "Showtime for the sheep" by Dave Hunt, you can find it at there website thebereancall.org

Mel gibson didn't even stick to JUST the gospel of scripture but used the writings of a catholic visionery.Satan will hide a pint of poison in a lake of truth, half-truths equal a Big Lie.

You want to know about Jesus, then go to the Bible which is 100% truth.
:wacko How in the world did a thread about movies turn into a catholic-bashing rant? This is offensive.

[HomerS3]

Finally, brethren, ** whatever things are true, ** whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things. (Philippians 4)

I think we often overlook that line within that verse. If a movie represents truth, whether it be pleasant or not, does it not adhere to the standards in this verse?
If a film contains truth, is it not worth our time. Remember, all truth is God's truth. ie. Schindler's List. This film contains extreme violence, profanity, and nudity. But I will support the viewing of this film. Why? because it is truth, and though is is far from pleasant, it represents a true part of our lives and history.
Though we may not agree with the acts on screen, the viewing of them in a truthful context may very well be edifying

[archangel01]

Catholic's need to know the truth even if it hurts. You can't work for your salvation, the bible doesn't teach that. Your in a cult.

[Harley]

Catholic's need to know the truth even if it hurts. You can't work for your salvation, the bible doesn't teach that. Your in a cult.
:rolleyes

[zeal4thelord]

Psalm 101:3 - ''I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; [it] shall not cleave to me.''
And then there's 1 Timothy 5:22 ''...neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.''
I recently was somewhat convicted over watching those ''true crime'' shows on TV, you know the factual ones concerning murders or other crimes, the investigation and trial. I suppose I rationalized it to myself; my reasoning was that it was factual and real, and my main interest was in seeing justice done. But being honest I think that the sensationalism appealed to my ''carnal'' side. I've since lost my desire to watch those shows, and watch very little TV except for old classic movies and non-fiction shows of a more edifying kind.
Just because something really happened, I don't think that makes it appropriate for Christians to watch or read. We see stories about some of the most horrible crimes imaginable, and I would rather not read them and dwell on the gruesome details; it puts images in my mind that I don't want to retain. We can't help but be aware that horrible things happen in this world, but we don't need to see or read the graphic, ugly details. It only saddens me and depresses me anyway.
Ephesians 5:12 ''For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.''
And yes, there are some bad things in the Bible, (murders, sexual sins, etc.) as in the Old Testament, but these things are presented in a matter-of-fact way, much as a newspaper account of a crime is presented. And they are never presented in such a way as to appeal to our 'prurient interests', they are not glamorized. There is a moral context, unlike in movies, TV, and fiction.
And is it 'legalism' to try to keep our minds pure? To me the word means following a lot of nitpicky rules in the belief that we are saved by works, but holiness is required of us
''Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:''
Hebrews 12:14

[TonyM]

Yes, if they use discernment. Le'ts not get legalistic, we need not have selective amenesia, about how unbelievers act, it really amazes me still how Christians seem to be 'appalled' yet, hello, they are sinners, you should expect that, and use your discernment with secular entertainment, that's what it's there for, not to have you in a legalistic bondage type of thing, that's not God either or honoring to Him.

[LDinthewoods]

Yes, if they use discernment. Le'ts not get legalistic, we need not have selective amenesia, about how unbelievers act, it really amazes me still how Christians seem to be 'appalled' yet, hello, they are sinners, you should expect that, and use your discernment with secular entertainment, that's what it's there for, not to have you in a legalistic bondage type of thing, that's not God either or honoring to Him. It is not legalistic to avoid all appearances of evil and to not be entertained by those who practice it.

[Hootmon]

It is not legalistic to avoid all appearances of evil and to not be entertained by those who practice it.The 'appearance of evil' you are to avoid refers to you personally and not others.

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=201642

I could summarize the thought as 'Dont be a poor witness to others'...

[LDinthewoods]

The 'appearance of evil' you are to avoid refers to you personally and not others.

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=201642

I could summarize the thought as 'Dont be a poor witness to others'... I don't believe this falls under "don't be a poor witness". IMO, watching & enjoying movies where people are engaging in sin is a form of approval of their sin. It encourages them to continue down the wrong path.

I also know that our minds are corruptible. (Some more so than others, but all to a varying degree can be led into sin.) A steady diet of illegal & immoral behavior will affect our minds & world views.

And I only say that because I know from experience when I stopped watching movies & most TV for myself. It was not just a discipline or something that I had to get used to just to appear obedient or feel righteous.

The longer I go without seeing movies or TV, the more I notice the healing that has taken place in my mind & in my heart. It took several months before I even started to notice a change, but that change has been unmistakable. I have truly been blessed by the absence of these movies that are completely bereft of anything that is Christ-like.

[antsinmypants]

Not always is a rating up to date, nor accurate.

[Hootmon]

I don't believe this falls under "don't be a poor witness". I agree. Thats why I wanted to point out what the verse you semi-quoted actually means, at least in IMO. :):


I also know that our minds are corruptible. (Some more so than others, but all to a varying degree can be led into sin.) A steady diet of illegal & immoral behavior will affect our minds & world views. I agree. In fact, I was only able to overcome a Porn addiction by going 'cold turkey', and that includes overly suggestive movies and TV.

Again... I was only commenting on that verse and not the merits (good or bad) of Movie watching.

[BHiles]

The Part of scripture that concerns me the most and is quite shocking taken at face value.

After declaring the downward fall of a man or society we find this little nugget at the end that is aimed not at the wicked unsaved person who declined down the road to perversions but to the believer.

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Does "having pleasure" also mean to be entertained by? If we get our entertainment by those acting out wickedness are we taking pleasure in the sinfulness?

I think it is something to think about.

[LDinthewoods]

Again... I was only commenting on that verse and not the merits (good or bad) of Movie watching. So all you're saying is I need to pick another verse? :lol

[Hootmon]

So all you're saying is I need to pick another verse? :lolMaybe. :becky

Its just one of those verses that gets mis-applied fairly often. It doesnt say that you should avoid wicked people, though you still should. It says that YOU shouldnt BE a wicked-appearing person.

[LDinthewoods]

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. And here is the other verse I have tried to use when testifying to others, but I was told this is only being stated to the unsaved & not those of us who are under grace. IMO - This verse works just fine, but it seems like when I use any scripture to make this point against movies, people say that the verse doesn't apply for one reason or another.

[Hootmon]

The Part of scripture that concerns me the most and is quite shocking taken at face value.

After declaring the downward fall of a man or society we find this little nugget at the end that is aimed not at the wicked unsaved person who declined down the road to perversions but to the believer.

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Does "having pleasure" also mean to be entertained by? If we get our entertainment by those acting out wickedness are we taking pleasure in the sinfulness?

I think it is something to think about.Interesting...

Rom 1:32 Who3748 knowing1921 the3588 judgment1345 of God,2316 that3754 they which commit4238 such things5108 are1526 worthy514 of death,2288 not3756 only3440 do4160 the same,846 but235 (2532) have pleasure4909 in them that do4238 them.

G4909
συνευδοκέω
suneudokeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to be pleased together with, to approve together (with others)
2) to be pleased at the same time with, consent, agree to
2a) to applaud
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4862 and G2106Something like... You not only DO them (things worthy of death), but approve of other who do them as well.

Still... The context of that verse is of those who God 'gave over to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right'.

[Hootmon]

Its also worth noting that the chapter break between Romans 1 and 2 interrupts the context. You should keep reading from about the middle of Romans 1 through to about the middle of Romans 2.

Something like this... I am debtor both to the Greeks and to the foreigners, both to the wise and to the unwise. So, as much as is in me lies, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them. For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse.

Because, knowing God, they did not glorify Him as God, neither were thankful. But they became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves. For they changed the truth of God into a lie, and they worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this cause, God gave them up to dishonorable affections. For even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another; males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error. And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right, being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, proud, braggarts, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, perfidious, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but have pleasure in those practicing them.

Therefore you are without excuse, O man, everyone who judges; for in that in which you judge another, you condemn yourself, for you who judge do the same things. But know that the judgment of God is according to truth on those who practice such things. And, O man, the one judging those who do such things, and practice them, do you think this, that you shall escape the judgment of God? Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, and the forbearance and long-suffering, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

But according to your hardness and your impenitent heart, do you treasure up wrath for yourself in a day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each according to his works; indeed to those who with patience in good work are seeking for glory, and honor, and incorruptibility, everlasting life.

But to those who indeed disobeying the truth out of self-seeking, and obeying unrighteousness, will be anger and wrath, tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who has worked out evil; of the Jew first, and also of the Greek.

But He will give glory, honor and peace to every man who works good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of faces with God. For as many as sinned without Law will also perish without Law. And as many as have sinned within Law shall be judged through Law. For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves; who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another, in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
(Romans 1:14-2:16)

[LDinthewoods]

Interesting...

Something like... You not only DO them (things worthy of death), but approve of other who do them as well.

Still... The context of that verse is of those who God 'gave over to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right'.

But still the verse is referring to people who know of GOD but are denying Him. It says that the things of GOD have been made clear to these people & them now having no reason (or excuse) for any wrong-doing. (But since they continued in their sin, this is why they were given over to a reprobate mind?)


Rom 1:18 For there is a revelation of the wrath of God from heaven against all the wrongdoing and evil thoughts of men who keep down what is true by wrongdoing;

Rom 1:19 Because the knowledge of God may be seen in them, God having made it clear to them.

Rom 1:20 For from the first making of the world, those things of God which the eye is unable to see, that is, his eternal power and existence, are fully made clear, he having given the knowledge of them through the things which he has made, so that men have no reason for wrongdoing:


If the knowledge of GOD can be seen (fruits?) in these people he is speaking to and these people are fully aware of things of GOD that cannot be seen with the eye (faith?)...this all indicates to me that they are talking about born-again believers that I guess are willfully falling away from the gospel, right?

[LDinthewoods]

Okay, I just read the entire chapter 2 (Bible in Basic English version) but I don't see how any of that chapter clarifies the last verse of chapter one. (Yes, I'm not to studied on this stuff so forgive me for asking.)

[antsinmypants]

But still the verse is referring to people who know of GOD but are denying Him. It says that the things of GOD have been made clear to these people & them now having no reason (or excuse) for any wrong-doing. (But since they continued in their sin, this is why they were given over to a reprobate mind?)


It's talking about unbelievers being without excuse because G-d has revealed Himself to them in every way imaginable, yet they deny Him. So, he's turned them over to a reprobate mind due to their wrong doing.

[TonyM]

As for the appearance of evil, no one should assume that by going to movie, listening to secular music is a doorway to getting lost again, now for a baby Chrisitan, I would not recommend listening to secular music or seeing an R-Rated movie (I only view 'Schindler List/The Passion of the Christ' type of Rs). I did go see Star Wars III and Hitch lately and the Borne Supremacy. God trusts me and knows I will do the right thing.

It's a huge assumption to think that going to a PG-13 movie will bring forth that appearance of evil, awithout knowing the content of the movie, or assuming it has that type of content, that is legalistic.

We should becareful in critizing others on this thread. If you have conquered a certain sin based on entertainment or music, that's great! And like the Bible says, don't drag someone into something you know you can handle, but they can't. Yyou may have the liberty to listen to great secular music (and don't even go there with me) but some may not be able to handle your freedom, so in that sense, if someone is deeply affected by secular music or entertainment in the wrong way, then for you, that's good for you, but not good for them, so as a mature Christian we need to respect our brother or sister who does not have that freedom.

[TonyM]

The Part of scripture that concerns me the most and is quite shocking taken at face value.

After declaring the downward fall of a man or society we find this little nugget at the end that is aimed not at the wicked unsaved person who declined down the road to perversions but to the believer.

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Does "having pleasure" also mean to be entertained by? If we get our entertainment by those acting out wickedness are we taking pleasure in the sinfulness?

I think it is something to think about.


I like that, that is food for thought, you might want to think of copying into a new thread as well.

[LDinthewoods]

As for the appearance of evil, no one should assume that by going to movie, listening to secular music is a doorway to getting lost again, now for a baby Chrisitan, I would not recommend listening to secular music or seeing an R-Rated movie (I only view 'Schindler List/The Passion of the Christ' type of Rs). I did go see Star Wars III and Hitch lately and the Borne Supremacy. God trusts me and knows I will do the right thing.

It's a huge assumption to think that going to a PG-13 movie will bring forth that appearance of evil, awithout knowing the content of the movie, or assuming it has that type of content, that is legalistic.

We should becareful in critizing others on this thread. If you have conquered a certain sin based on entertainment or music, that's great! And like the Bible says, don't drag someone into something you know you can handle, but they can't. Yyou may have the liberty to listen to great secular music (and don't even go there with me) but some may not be able to handle your freedom, so in that sense, if someone is deeply affected by secular music or entertainment in the wrong way, then for you, that's good for you, but not good for them, so as a mature Christian we need to respect our brother or sister who does not have that freedom.

:gossip Psst! No one criticized you.


I must say though your answer is a pretty long one for question that wasn't even asked on this thread. :confused Hhmmmm....

[MattFitz87]

I think it's okay, as long as you understand what's wrong and what's right. I mean...it's better a child play Grand Theft Auto then to go out and car jack somebody...sure, GTA isn't exactly the best thing for anyone.....

I'm actually studying to be a filmmaker, and secular material doesn't bother me at all...it's just a film. Pulp Fiction wasn't promoting heroin, shooting people, etc. It was just part of the story.

[BHiles]

Movies a shared religion
Sex and violence still tops despite cultural, political attitudes


HOLLYWOOD -- Red State fundamentalists and Christians are as likely to watch violent movies and rent R-rated DVDs as their Blue State counterparts, according to a MarketCast study presented at Wednesday's Integrate '05 conference, co-sponsored by Variety.

In fact, the study found that those who are stricter about their religious doctrine are actually more likely to see films rated R for violence than those who are less conservative.

Analysis of how cultural and political attitudes affect entertainment consumption was based on a survey of 1,000 Americans and presented by MarketCast vice president and general manager Henry Shapiro and managing director Karen Hermelin.

"Our data has shown that most people, even the most religious, are quite satisfied with their moviegoing," Shapiro said. "They like what they see, they feel there's plenty that appeals to them, and they all partake in the moviegoing fun at fairly equal rates."

He added that MarketCast commissioned the research to offer balance in an increasingly rancourous public debate.

"This isn't just civic boosterism, we've put money and time into this research because we were tired of listening to the chatter that was drowning out the real message and clouding the issue," he said.

"Clearly, this level of noise is being generated by a vocal and organized minority that is disproportionately impacting the debate," he added, "to the point where the thread gets picked up as fact and fed back and amplified by politicians, reporters, commentators, even some industry executives."

While the study confirmed that a sharp divide on moral issues exists in the country, it found entertainment choices are largely made separately from moral decisions. Cultural conservatives, the report concludes, are "participating in American culture at virtually the same levels as the rest of society."

Unsurprisingly, the study revealed that Americans sharply divide on contentious issues like abortion, gay marriage and stem cell research. The most reliable predictor of where people stand on these issues, however, was how intensely religious people consider themselves.

In the study, 32% said they were "very religious" while 45% said "somewhat religious" and 23% were not religious.

The religious and non-religious people in the study were nearly indistinguishable in their attitudes about their own individual moviegoing experience.

The two groups only disagreed on broader questions of "the movies" in general and their place in culture.

Uniform habits
Moviegoing habits were fairly uniform across all groups, with more than half of the respondents, no matter how religious they consider themselves, saying they see between two and 11 movies a year.

And while those who are very religious were the most likely to criticize Hollywood and the movies in general, they were just as satisfied with the films that they did see. According to the study, 92% of all respondents agreed that people had the right to see whatever movies they wanted to, 91% said they enjoyed going to the movies, and 75% said they go to theaters to be entertained, not for moral messages.

When it came to more general cultural judgments about the entertainment industry, concerns were primarily shared by those who are very religious. For instance, for the general population overall, 43% agreed with the statement, "the movie industry is partially responsible for the moral decay of our society."

But that finding was primarily a reflection of the 55% of the very religious who agreed with the claim; less than 30% of those who are not religious said the same.

Disconnect in behavior
The disconnect between attitudes about the entertainment industry and consumers' actual behavior -- that is moviegoing, DVD rentalsrentals (http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=slanguage_result&slang=rentals&page=Slanguage&display=rentals) and television viewing -- was illustrated by MarketCast's analysis of who watches R-rated films.

For the study, the org identified 12 movies rated R for strong violence and 12 rated R for sexual content and then asked people if they had seen at least one film in each list.

Not surprisingly, they found that men were more likely to have seen the violent R-rated films than women (27% to 19%). People were also less likely to have seen the R-rated films the older they were. For instance, among people 17 to 24 years old, 46% had seen the sexual R films and 34% had see the pics rated R for violence. Among people 45 to 54, the numbers were 18% and 15%, respectively.

Comparing people by how religious they were, the differences were smaller. Of those who said they are very religious 25% had viewed the sexual content R-rated films and 19% had seen the violent pics. Among the non-religious, the numbers were 33% and 28%. Perhaps the most surprising finding in the study, though, was when MarketCast measured for doctrine within religion. Those who were the most conservative in their religious beliefs were actually more likely to have seen the violent films than those who characterized themselves as more liberal. While 18% of those who were liberal in their doctrine had seen the violent R-rated films, 29% of the conservatives said they had seen these violent movies.
http://www.variety.com/VR1117925329.html (http://www.variety.com/VR1117925329.html)

Basically the article is saying Christians are a bunch of hypocrites and the more conservative you are the bigger hypocrasy you practice.

[TonyM]

Of course they would like people out there to believe that, are you surprised?

I have a funny feeling these statistics are about nominal Christians, and not the real born-again believers out there. So of course there woud be no differences in the consumption of entertainment or deterrance in the stopping of entertainment that is offensive.

So, I guess if in view of what you bottom-lined for us, I guess those statitics could be true - for them - not for the real born-again believers.

Good again BHiles! :):

[LDinthewoods]

Of course they would like people out there to believe that, are you surprised?

I have a funny feeling these statistics are about nominal Christians, and not the real born-again believers out there. So of course there woud be no differences in the consumption of entertainment or deterrance in the stopping of entertainment that is offensive.

So, I guess if in view of what you bottom-lined for us, I guess those statitics could be true - for them - not for the real born-again believers.

Good again BHiles! :): Mmm... but if you are a born again believer & not even a baby Christian...yet you watch these movies...and some other Christian just posted that he is going to be a film maker & referenced Pulp Fiction....and these threads are filled with believers who profess both Christ & that there is nothing wrong with movies.

Yet, when presented with an poll that shows that strong conservative Christians watch the same violent & sexual movies as non-believers...you simply deny that they polled true believers??

So, you are a true believer that watches movies but your not a hypocrite like the "nominal Christians" in the article because they claim to be conservative Christians who watch movies? :confused

Where do you get this discernment (or "funny feeling" as you called it) that helps you seperate the "real born-again believers" from the fake born-again believers?

[Jiggy37]

Basically the article is saying Christians are a bunch of hypocrites and the more conservative you are the bigger hypocrasy you practice.:hrm Well, yes, the higher your standards, the greater the hypocrisy is when you don't adhere to them. That's just inherent by the definition of "hypocrite." Someone who (for example) goes to porn sites but doesn't believe there's anything wrong with it isn't being a hypocrite--though that person's still sinning.


Romans 7
7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." 8But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
[...]
13Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

[LDinthewoods]

:hrm Well, yes, the higher your standards, the greater the hypocrisy is when you don't adhere to them. That's just inherent by the definition of "hypocrite." Someone who (for example) goes to porn sites but doesn't believe there's anything wrong with it isn't being a hypocrite--though that person's still sinning.
I don't believe the article was trying to say that the individuals themselves (the ones that watch the movies) are hypocrites. I think what they meant was more general...because it is always Christian groups calling for high decencey standards & less violence, etc. But their statistics show that Christians rent these types of movies at the same rate as non-Christians.

[andy]

Imho, its all about context.

Example: A movie about World War I or II, Civil War. struggle for racial equality in the USA, etc. These events were violent and caused suffering. So as in a historical setting, I can see a pg or pg 13 rating.

Its all about context. Lets say I go to see a movie about King David. He was a warrior. David led a very violent life, yet a life of compassion and mercy when he had Saul at his mercy, his kindness to Mephibosheth, etc. But also his affair with Bathsheba. That does not mean the movie has to show nudity and sexual acts, but show the truth of David's sin and its consequences.

Its all about context. Jmho. :wave

[antsinmypants]

It *is* all about context.

For instance, there are actually documentaries out there that would be rated R, for their content about the Holocaust, WWII and what lead to WWII, and what happened in WWI, Vietnam and the Korean Conflict.

Are we wrong to watch them and be informed of what happened? NO.

Are we wrong to go ":yay" and cheer on those doing wrong? YES.


There's a difference in being an observer who does not agree with nor condone actions, and being in there cheering on the gladiator sports.

It's best to know what happened during a war and clean it up (Language, and some of the violence) a little bit so people can stomach it and understand what happened and value those soldiers who fought and freed people (even some of us!).

It's best to know that the holocaust was and IS real, and something people are daily trying to deal with their actions, or the actions of others done to them... and that there were really THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS killed, and even left in piles of naked flesh in some of the camps as the Germans retreated from the "Red Army" (Former USSR).

If we do not realise and fully value things such as this (the liberation and the fact the military photographers actually documented it), we become deniers.

Sometimes it takes seeing to believe.

One can see a movie that has little to no sexual content in a PG-13 movie, that is rated for "Violence" Such as "The Borne" series of movies (and books)... which is about a spy that had amnesia after being shot, and trying to find out who he is... then finding out and not liking it, and going on the run while the US government tries to put him down silently. (As if this never happens, right? :rolleyes)

Or how about "Wind Talkers" about the fighting in WWII in Japan where the Native Americans were fighting along with our "white soldiers" And weren't valued until their skin was saved.
The "Wind Talker's" Code was never cracked by the Japanese and we won the war due to their valiant efforts-- yet, they are almost forgotten by this nation, and the last of the Wind Talkers are dying off.

Should we not know and see what happened and value what they did for us?


This is one where I just gotta disagree with ya'll.

There is such a difference in gladly going to a gladiator sport and cheering on the sin there... and witnessing reinactments of history... and wishing it didn't happen, knowing it did, and coming to terms with it.

[Hootmon]

Imho, its all about context.That is exactly right.

And its why ALL blanket statements are wrong. :heh

[TonyM]

I believe with andy, that it is all about content.

[Holly3278]

It depends on the movie. Some PG-13 movies will be acceptable while others will not be.

[Harley]

And its why ALL blanket statements are wrong. :heh

:laugh That's very good. I'll keep that right next to "Extremists should be shot!"