Judging Angels? me?? you??

[Time2Sow]

1Co:6:3: Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

I've heard people quote this one verse, and I wonder whether we should be taking it literally or not.. in context, it almost seems like a hyperbole used to make the point the Christians should decide matters of dispute among Christians and that we stand capable of rendering judgements on our own affairs...and, if we do take it literally, i wanna say "yikes!" that really is some clean-up job God will do on us that we'll be fit for that service... any speculation on what angels could possibly be up to that judgment would be needed? the 1/3 angel population "bad guys" are in hell by then, so whats the dealio? Are there other verses I'm missing that confirm the literal interpretation of Paul's words here?

Thanks in advance!

[Benja32one]

1Co:6:3: Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

I've heard people quote this one verse, and I wonder whether we should be taking it literally or not.. in context, it almost seems like a hyperbole used to make the point the Christians should decide matters of dispute among Christians and that we stand capable of rendering judgements on our own affairs...and, if we do take it literally, i wanna say "yikes!" that really is some clean-up job God will do on us that we'll be fit for that service... any speculation on what angels could possibly be up to that judgment would be needed? the 1/3 angel population "bad guys" are in hell by then, so whats the dealio? Are there other verses I'm missing that confirm the literal interpretation of Paul's words here?

Thanks in advance!

:wave
As for judging angels, I take the scripture at face value. Other places...Matthew 19.28 and Luke 22.30 the disciples/apostles were promised by the Lord that they would judge the twelve tribes of Israel in the Millennium. Does that help?
:nod :thumb

[Time2Sow]

:confused

well, no sir. that just gives me another question to ask. :):

namely: Once evil is banished/satan bound during the millenium, isnt sin "adious muchachos!" outta here, gone, fini? except for that last little bit where Satan is let loose, i guess. We need judgements now because there's right and wrong.. what will the disciples have to judge amongst?


But thank you for input.. giving me more to think about. :wave

[TomT]

:confused

well, no sir. that just gives me another question to ask. :):

namely: Once evil is banished/satan bound during the millenium, isnt sin "adious muchachos!" outta here, gone, fini? except for that last little bit where Satan is let loose, i guess. We need judgements now because there's right and wrong.. what will the disciples have to judge amongst?


But thank you for input.. giving me more to think about. :wave

During the 1,000 year reign on earth the "humans" that make it thru the tribulation (1/3?) will repopulate the earth under the rule and Lordship of Jesus - certainly those humans will need personal guidance and direction - while Satan may be bound and chained in the pit - humans remain "human" in that they make mistakes and mis-judgements....and require guidance.

Sin and death are not "abolished" until after Satan is once again loosed for a season at the end of the 1,000 years - and a great number of the "earthly humans" join him in rebelling once again against God.

It is only then, after the Great White Throne Judgement that Satan, Hell and Death and Sin itself are finally cast into the Lake of Fire and thus permanently removed - it is after that when God creates a new heaven and a new earth - and we as His chosen, enter into timeless eternity.

Praise God!!

What I have just summarized is described in Revelation Chapters 20 and 21....

[Time2Sow]

O! thanks TT.

but now I have more questions :redface
e:20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. POST RAPTURE, PARATRIB MARYTRS, right?

Re:20:5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. ???? HOW DOES THIS FIT IN TO THE DEAD IN CHRIST RISING AT THE RAPTURE? I THOUGHT THAT WOULD COUNT AS A FIRST RESURRECTION BUT I GUESS NO?

Everytime i think i have a handle on the course of events, or at least a general timeline, i run into something in scripture that makes me feel like i have to make sure i'm not holding the book upside down.. :doh

[antitox]

At this time, as Psalms 8 describes, we are lower than the angels for a little while. After resurrection, we will be over the angels. I understand that to be Paul's point. Heb 1:14 states that they will serve us.

[Werner]

O! thanks TT.

but now I have more questions :redface
e:20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. POST RAPTURE, PARATRIB MARYTRS, right?

Re:20:5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. ???? HOW DOES THIS FIT IN TO THE DEAD IN CHRIST RISING AT THE RAPTURE? I THOUGHT THAT WOULD COUNT AS A FIRST RESURRECTION BUT I GUESS NO?

Everytime i think i have a handle on the course of events, or at least a general timeline, i run into something in scripture that makes me feel like i have to make sure i'm not holding the book upside down.. :doh
The first resurrection is not a one time event, it's a category. :):

[Werner]

1 Corinthians 6:1-6

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

One thing we need to consider is that judging does not always involve a crime, or in the case of eternity where all unrighteousness is gone, sin. If two or more people have a dispute or question about anything, who presides over the issue to determine the rightful outcome? A judge. Disputes can arise over anything, with neither party being at fault, or guilty of a crime.

It's very possible that God brought into being a whole new dynamic to His Creation when He made man in His Image. Obviously it was always His intent to do so, and it would not be new to God, but the angels are not eternal in the way God is, He created them. So everything has been unfolding to them just as it is to us. That means that possibly (and I stress this is totally hypothetical) the estate and economy (whatever it may be) that angels existed in before man will change during the Millennium and into and throughout eternity.

We are well equipped for taking the things God has made and fashioning other useful things from them. An economy of some sort is born not for it's own sake. It's derived from people exchanging the things they have produced for things others have produced so they don't all have to produce everything themselves. We certainly will have time to produce everything ourselves, but I highly doubt we would desire living in the isolation that can lead to. And why? If you enjoy one thing, and another enjoys something else, and you both agree to exchange some of one for another, you have trade...

If you have trade, there must be some kind of rules in place. Everyone can't decide to do the same thing, at the same place, at the same time. During the Millennium there will be trade. There is no reason to assume it will all end when the Millennium does...

It will be interesting to see how everything plays out in eternity! :nod

Maranatha! :dancing

John

[Hootmon]

The first resurrection is not a one time event, it's a category. That is worth repeating.

[kgreen20]

Yeah, but surely, angels don't trade!

[Mountain Girl]

Maybe we'll judge the angels that watched over us as to how diligently they protected us? My guardian angel(s) have done a great job protecting me! Maybe they get extra rewards for a job well done?

We are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, angels aren't. I think that is how we will be able to judge angels, it will be with the Holy Spirit's wisdom and direction.

When I read that I am very humbled because no one knows better than me that I'm not worthy to judge anyone, and certainly not an angel.

But that is what the bible says we'll do.

[LostSheep25]

Me personally I would not like to judge angels because I have faults of my own and understand temptation but god has his reasons I don't understand so I must obey him.

[Danimus]

Maybe we'll judge the angels that watched over us as to how diligently they protected us? My guardian angel(s) have done a great job protecting me! Maybe they get extra rewards for a job well done?

We are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, angels aren't. I think that is how we will be able to judge angels, it will be with the Holy Spirit's wisdom and direction.

When I read that I am very humbled because no one knows better than me that I'm not worthy to judge anyone, and certainly not an angel.

But that is what the bible says we'll do.

If the Holy Spirit indwell believers then why would we need a guardian angel?

[Patty T]

If the Holy Spirit indwell believers then why would we need a guardian angel?


Not really sure but scripture does say He gives His angels charge over us to keep us in all our ways (Psalm 91:11)

[Timothy]

I Corinthians 6:2-3 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Regarding judging the world, I believe that the judging of the world means that the body of Christ (after the rapture) will be involved with judgement in the millenial kingdom, but that's another topic. Regarding the judging of angels, I believe that this is what the verse refers to:

II Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

I believe that the judging of angels in I Corinthians refers to fallen angels, which are awaiting judgement. The "hell" of II Peter 2:4 comes from the Greek "Tartarus," and is the only usage of that word, implying that it is in a separate location/area, awaiting this future judgment.

[antitox]

If the Holy Spirit indwell believers then why would we need a guardian angel?

First of all, we don't always follow the Holy Spirit. Secondly, just because we have the indwelling Holy Spirit doesn't mean we don't ever take a direct hit. We as humans are too flakey. IMO, we just don't get it right most of the time, and so much of our lives yearns for grace.

In my own personal view, I believe we have a guardian angel assigned to us when we are born, even though we haven't received Jesus yet.

(Matt 18:10) "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven."

I think that this will play a part in being without excuse for those who refused Jesus when they stand before God.

There were too many times I could have been hurt, killed, maimed, kidnapped, and I came close to death at one point in a car wreck when I went into severe shock. For some reason, many times I was spared and even in the days before I was saved, I somehow knew God had preserved me, though I didn't understand why back then.

[kenneth]

I think that the Saints will confirm judgements made by God on fallen angels. I am guessing that each Saint will see the very ones which plagued them some time during their lives. No one will be able to say that they were judged unfairly.

[Timothy]

In my own personal view, I believe we have a guardian angel assigned to us when we are born, even though we haven't received Jesus yet....There were too many times I could have been hurt, killed, maimed, kidnapped...[/COLOR]

I agree with Danimus, in this dispensation we have the permanent indewelling of the Holy Spirit. The concept of a "guardian angel" just doesn't make sense, as God has never promised to shield members of the body of Christ from physical poverty, physical pain, or the physical consequences of living in a sin cursed world. What about the flip side of your statement? If every child has a guardian angel as you say, what about all of the billions children that have been hurt, killed, maimed, kidnapped?

[Werner]

Maybe we'll judge the angels that watched over us as to how diligently they protected us? My guardian angel(s) have done a great job protecting me! Maybe they get extra rewards for a job well done?

We are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, angels aren't. I think that is how we will be able to judge angels, it will be with the Holy Spirit's wisdom and direction.

When I read that I am very humbled because no one knows better than me that I'm not worthy to judge anyone, and certainly not an angel.

But that is what the bible says we'll do.
Angels that have not fallen do not fail to do exactly what God desires of them in every way. There is nothing good or bad about their service per se, they are obedient to God in all things. Yes, they have their own volition, but it's not like ours, where we sometimes obey and sometimes fail to...

[Werner]

Yeah, but surely, angels don't trade!
It was a hypothetical scenario during or after the Millennium.

We just don't know. Yet. :B: :heh

[antitox]

I agree with Danimus, in this dispensation we have the permanent indewelling of the Holy Spirit. The concept of a "guardian angel" just doesn't make sense, as God has never promised to shield members of the body of Christ from physical poverty, physical pain, or the physical consequences of living in a sin cursed world. What about the flip side of your statement? If every child has a guardian angel as you say, what about all of the billions children that have been hurt, killed, maimed, kidnapped?

If you read my first post, you would see that I stated that just because we have the Holy Spirit that doesn't mean we never take a direct hit. Hey, I don't have all the answers and neither do you. There's no way you can answer or address every situation and possibility, or even assess what God is doing or allowing at any given time. Everything isn't carved in granite because there is the human element involved here, God's purpose, prayers, spirit warfare, and a never ending host of variables.
I choose to believe that I was spared multiple times and that there was mercy shown to me, and as to the actual answer for it, I may never know until I get to heaven.
If we think we can box something like this into theology and theory, it is then going beyond man's proper place in this.

[Danimus]

I am not trying to be a stick in the mud to those who are into the concept of guardian angels but I have not found scriptual backing for it and again I do not see our need for guardian angels when we have The Most High God dwelling within us. The Holy Spirit is the mediator between us and The Father...isn't He?

So maybe they protect us...? From? Is an omnipresent God not capable of this all on His own? Psalm 23 speaks to how it is God that leads us and gives us rest. God protects us and comforts us. It does not say "Yea though I walk through the valley of death I will fear no evil for your angels are with me" but instead, "I will fear no evil for YOU are with me".

Please understand that I do not doubt that the angels serve God in some capacity. I am just not sure that they serve in *this* capacity.

[antitox]

I am not trying to be a stick in the mud to those who are into the concept of guardian angels but I have not found scriptual backing for it and again I do not see our need for guardian angels when we have The Most High God dwelling within us.

(Heb 1:14) "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?"

The Holy Spirit is the mediator between us and The Father...isn't He?

(1 Tim 2:05) "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

So maybe they protect us...? From? Is an omnipresent God not capable of this all on His own?

Then why have angels at all? Sure He can do anything, but He created them to serve Him and us.

[bopeep1909]

From The MacArthur Study Bible:


Corinthians 6:3 judge angels. The Gr. word can mean "rule or govern." Since the Lord himself will judge fallen angels ( 2 Pet.2:4;Jude 6),it is likely this means we will have some rule in eternity over holy angels. Since angels are "ministering spirits" to serve the saints(Heb.1:14), it seems reasonable that they will serve us in glory.

[Benja32one]

From The MacArthur Study Bible:


Corinthians 6:3 judge angels. The Gr. word can mean "rule or govern." Since the Lord himself will judge fallen angels ( 2 Pet.2:4;Jude 6),it is likely this means we will have some rule in eternity over holy angels. Since angels are "ministering spirits" to serve the saints(Heb.1:14), it seems reasonable that they will serve us in glory.
:wave
"krinoumen" is from "krino" and means primarily ''to judge, pass judgment on''.
:nod

[Morningstarlet]

If the Holy Spirit indwell believers then why would we need a guardian angel?

Because there's a devil that hates us, and we still make unwise decisions. :nod

[Morningstarlet]

Corinthians 6:3 judge angels. The Gr. word can mean "rule or govern." Since the Lord himself will judge fallen angels ( 2 Pet.2:4;Jude 6),it is likely this means we will have some rule in eternity over holy angels. Since angels are "ministering spirits" to serve the saints(Heb.1:14), it seems reasonable that they will serve us in glory.

I don't know, the thought of Holy Angels serving me makes me wince. Maybe once I'm sinless I won't see it that way, but in the "here and now" I don't feel worthy.

[cameron222]

I can appreciate that Morning.....but the angels are more like us and not to be worshipped, so I might not have a problem with it. They are just another order of creation. And as far as I know, the third of the angels that followed satan have no plan of salvation. Just us humans.

[Morningstarlet]

I can appreciate that Morning.....but the angels are more like us and not to be worshipped, so I might not have a problem with it. They are just another order of creation. And as far as I know, the third of the angels that followed satan have no plan of salvation. Just us humans.

Oh, I agree cameron. It's still a humbling thought though. And the devil and his demons have no salvation, that's true. It still amazes me that God sent His only begotten Son to save us ... human beings. Wow, it leaves me in awe. I'm glad that one day in Heaven I'll be able to see things more clearly than I do on this earth ... because here it's still so overwhelming. :):

[cameron222]

Amen to that!!

[MrJim]

It could be that our guardian angels are fighting a spiritual war on our behalf. The good angels are keeping the fallen angels in check.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

It could be the basic function of a guardian angel is to protect us from evil in the invisible realm more so that keep us physically safe, although they may keep us safe both physically and spiritually.

[Benja32one]

It could be that our guardian angels are fighting a spiritual war on our behalf. The good angels are keeping the fallen angels in check.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

It could be the basic function of a guardian angel is to protect us from evil in the invisible realm more so that keep us physically safe, although they may keep us safe both physically and spiritually.
:wave
I think it very possible as you stated.
Daniel was informed by angels that they were assigned to certain kingdoms,
the term "the prince of Persia" reveals this. Principalities and powers are divisions of the prince of the power of the air's domain, probably organised by him. But that said, I do not believe the devil/satan is omniscient or omnipresent, though he has many christians looking over their shoulders for
the 'roaring lion' and rightly so. The devil was 'rendered powerless' at the cross for christians who will resist him...in point of fact, he will FLEE FROM US when we resist him and his cohorts. To God be the glory!
BTW...I think he probably operates in centers of gov'ts, as they are the places decisions are made affecting many people.
:thumb :nod

[LostSheep25]

According to the bible the angels were created with perfect knowledge of all things so therefore god did not give salvation to them because they knew right from wrong nor were they really sorry for what they did to humans. God knew that if the humans knew things they were not supposed to know being in the flesh they take things way out of proportion thats how a bow and arrow then became a nuclear bomb see what I mean.

[Timothy]

So maybe they protect us...?

In regards to physical protection, God has never promised to shield members of the body of Christ from physical poverty or physical pain or physical injury, via himself, angels or otherwise. On the contrary, the body of Christ is actually instructed to suffer. The Apostle Paul makes this quite clear repeatedly. There simply is no scriptural evidence that each member of the body of Christ has a so-called "guardian" angel. It is superstitious belief.

It could be that our guardian angels are fighting a spiritual war on our behalf. The good angels are keeping the fallen angels in check.

MrJim: I believe that you are on the right track in regards to the role of angels (that of being spiritual) in the dispensation of grace.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

That verse from the Apostle Paul teaches several things. It identifies where the real battlefield is today. It is not in the physical realm of flesh and blood, that which is seen. It identifies that Satan and his helpers are in positions of authority in the spiritual realm. The real battefield today is spiritual and in high places, as opposed to the physical realm of low places.