Should we shelter our children from this world?

[4fish]

This subject was broached on another thread but I would like to read more opinions, preferably scriptural, if possible.

Some here believe that the bible tells us to shelter our children from this world, others do not.

I agree that there is much evil in this world that our children face and as a parent you want to protect them from it, but, is sheltering a child the biblical thing to do?

[Revelation Sky]

Well since I guess this thread was sparked by my comment I should make a post.

Yes we should be sheltering our kids. We should not play shows, movies, music etc that are wrong. (launguage, morals, attack on God etc) In all respect, no one should be watching or listening to it, both young or adult. Kids learn by example and we have to live what talk. I don't stand for it and if anyone, even extended family member start of with lude talk, they get told to knock it off. Or I will, and have left.

I also think though that some people take things too far and are paranoid. Satan lately seems to be in everything. All secular music and tv. It is not so. Like I had stated, what we are communicating on right now is more dangerous than a tv or rock song. Here you have people able to disguise theirselves as whatever they want and try to meet up with you or children. You have viruses on here, tracing, violence both real and fake, any type or sex or immoral lifestyle at the push of your finger tip and is all more addicting than others. It is how we use these devices in our lives and use our discernment. Do I think though kids should be online? There is no way!! It is too dangerous for child!!

Unfortunately evil is abound all around us. Even in churches sadly, I have found false teachings. Like it or not, our children will never be 100% sheltered from these things. They need to be taught what to look out for and how to handle them. God should be of course the biggest part in anyone's life!! But alot of the time when parents go over board and say, no tv period, no music period, I have seen it backfire. They either seek it out in the school or from friends. Not saying to let them watch or listen to something that is wrong, I'm saying not everything is of the enemy either and that can chase them away and won't understand what is and not. Some kids, yes they might accept it completely, but not all kids are the same.

Sadly my child has had to be a witness to seeing alternate lifestyles while we have been out. He turns and looks the other way and I remind him what the Bible says and why it is wrong. He hears foul language, school, public etc, he gets annoyed at it. Women wearing skimpy clothes and he says ewww mom! I let him watch some shows on tv. I mostly get him outside though. He also has his own children's Bible that he has almost completely read through. It's all how we use things and how we talk to them. You have to talk to them. I've seen parents that won't even talk to them about what is dangerous. That is too far. We are there to prepare them for life the best and Christian way possible.

Here's an example. My brother and I were overly sheltered. I didn't know much about the world period. I didn't understand what went through men's minds out there. I didn't understand relationships other than friendship. How people will trick you and take you for whatever you got...etc I went out with a big smile on my face trusting everyone around me. Yes that sounds nice and we shouldn't judge people, but you also have to understand them. I didn't. All I knew was I loved people, was caring, wanted to be married and have children, did not swear at all (still don't to this day) never took alcohol, drugs or smoke (still don't and haven't tried to this day), I trusted everyone on their word etc. Sadly, I trusted the wrong man and was raped. I was takin for money. Beat, didn't understand what was happening and ended up with panic attacks, stomach ulcers, and other problems due to stress. I don't blame my parents for it. I love them that I was raised to know Christ, and had a good Biblical back up and strength in Christ, which I think is what got me through it all. God never gives you more than what you can handle. I have messed things up pretty good. I do wish I had understood more about what people were about and men etc

My brother on the other hand went the other way. He didn't like not understanding what was out there and being told that everything was evil. he rebelled. To this day he has nothing to do with God. He lives an immoral life, with nasty people in his life. He is depressed and so on.

In both cases, yes we are responsible for our actions as adults. My parents, I love them. They did the best they could and I think they did a great job. Just that maybe they should have let us understand things better. Sat down talked about things. Not make us paranoid of everything. They did it cause yes they wanted to shelter us and be Christ like. Which you can do still with letting them know things.

I am not saying, sit down and have your children view stuff that is wrong before someone else does. That is wrong and irresponisble. These days it seems that either parents want to be a "friend" not a parent and say they rather them have s*x or do drugs, alcohol etc around them cause they can keep an eye on it and make sure nothing happens. Or some parents don't tell them that those things are out there, watch out, this is the world, etc.

I think like many of my posts this will be takin out of context. But I think there is too much judgement on others on here! Either you say everything is evil or you are going to pay for it on judgement. that of itself is judging. The Lord walked among many people on earth. He was aware of what was out there. Being aware and endorsing it are two different things. So before posting something rude right back at me about my parenting and how I view protecting and sheltering, take things into consideration and don't jump at people and say that is it, your condemed to judgement and boy are you going to be ashamed!!! (not aimed at anyone in particular)

Revelation Sky

[4fish]

Rev Sky . . . I didn't realize . . . I'm sorry. :(:

I actually agree with most of your arguement. But, I don't believe we should shelter our children - protect them, teach them, pray for them, yes.

What got me was the post that said that the Bible teaches that we should shelter them so they know nothing of reality and quoted Pr 22:6.

Not everything of this world is evil and not everything that claims to be christian is good. God made the world and everything in it. God gave us free will - who are we to take it away from our children?

And, I can use Pr 22:6 to defend that position. It says to train up a child in the way he should go - not confine your child to the way he must go.

I am curious as to what further scripture the other position can offer.

Why would I want to take them out of the mission field that God put them in?
:confused

[Revelation Sky]

Amen! I think it's an understanding the difference between sheltering and endorsing.

Thanks for the concern. The Lord saw me through and stayed by my side

Revelation Sky

[ConservPride]

Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

It is not wrong to shelter children from the unfruitful works of darkness.

[abkn]

Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

It is not wrong to shelter children from the unfruitful works of darkness.

But we are to let our light shine. We are the light of the world. Our saved children are as well. They shine their light in the public school.

When you have a candle, do you place it under a bush? No you place it on a high table so that it will light the way. We are that light because of Jesus living in us.

[Revelation Sky]

Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

It is not wrong to shelter children from the unfruitful works of darkness.
These verses as I read them say, do not be part of what is wrong. Once again, it is a matter of endorsing something. If you live like that, yes it is wrong. But there is a difference of accepting and living/endorsing this lifestyle to being aware of things and have understanding of the world around you.

Revelation Sky

[GloryBound]

I heard a Focus on the Family program that kinda of addressed this. It was in relation to a certain sin. The expert, I forgot his name, claimed that what kids are exposed to before age 14 becomes "hard-wired" into their brains as "normal". That whatever they see and experience, if bad, is something they will have to fight against their entire lives.

But in this day and age, protecting kids is such a hard thing to do unless you live in the wilderness away from civilization. I'm a Sunday School teacher, and hear the stuff that the kids don't exactly feel comfortable talking to their parents about. I provide a lot of direction from the scripture for them. These kids are seeing stuff that I didn't see until I was much older. They do real well with it if they are given the right scriptures that deal with whatever situation they are seeing.

[4fish]

[QUOTE=ConservPride It is not wrong to shelter children from the unfruitful works of darkness.[/QUOTE]

I'm not talking about "works of darkness". :doh

I'm talking about children being sheltered from the world. Not allowed to experience this life - such as homeschooling vs. public school.

Why then did Jesus command us to go into the world and preach the Word? This was the Great Commission. This is what I am trying to train my children to do. (kinda on the job training :lol )

John 16:25-32 tells us Jesus overcame the world and at vs 33 he said we would "have tribulations; but be of good cheer". Jesus gave us the power to be victorious and joyous in the midst of tribulation. Jesus said we too can overcome! :clap

1 John 5:4,5 "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world -- our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God."

IMO, if we believe, trial and tribulations strengthen our faith. This is what I want for my children. This I believe is the will of God, that christians live victoriously, to overcome the world and the devil.

What better witness for Christ than those who have been there and can relate and who have overcome!

[abkn]

I'm not talking about "works of darkness". :doh

I'm talking about children being sheltered from the world. Not allowed to experience this life - such as homeschooling vs. public school.

Why then did Jesus command us to go into the world and preach the Word? This was the Great Commission. This is what I am trying to train my children to do. (kinda on the job training :lol )

John 16:25-32 tells us Jesus overcame the world and at vs 33 he said we would "have tribulations; but be of good cheer". Jesus gave us the power to be victorious and joyous in the midst of tribulation. Jesus said we too can overcome! :clap

1 John 5:4,5 "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world -- our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God."

IMO, if we believe, trial and tribulations strengthen our faith. This is what I want for my children. This I believe is the will of God, that christians live victoriously, to overcome the world and the devil.

What better witness for Christ than those who have been there and can relate and who have overcome!

:thumb :nod

[SuzyQ]

I don't think children should be shielded from this world, it's a nasty place and children need to be able to function in it with the wisdom of the bible and the Armour of GOD. Which should be learned at home.

[abkn]

I don't think children should be shielded from this world, it's a nasty place and children need to be able to function in it with the wisdom of the bible and the Armour of GOD. Which should be learned at home.

Right on!

I tell my children about the evil in this world. Then they start seeing it in their friends. They tell me that they are always telling their friends to honour their parents.

I love my children. What an awesome gift from G-d.

[Harley]

I'll post anecdotally note scripturally: I came to Christ in college and started hanging with the Christians. Some grew up in Evangelical homes going to Evangelical schools, playing on Evangelical sports teams, went camping with Evangelical "scouting" alternatives, etc. Some of these some were definitely over-sheltered and when they hit college they 1) adjusted, or 2) absolutely freaked, or 3) started making up for "lost time."

I suppose they could have continued the trend and gone on to Evangelical college - but sooner or later...

It all depends on what you mean by sheltering, but it does your kids no favors in the long run if they are never exposed to what's out there.

[abkn]

I'll post anecdotally note scripturally: I came to Christ in college and started hanging with the Christians. Some grew up in Evangelical homes going to Evangelical schools, playing on Evangelical sports teams, went camping with Evangelical "scouting" alternatives, etc. Some of these some were definitely over-sheltered and when they hit college they 1) adjusted, or 2) absolutely freaked, or 3) started making up for "lost time."

I suppose they could have continued the trend and gone on to Evangelical college - but sooner or later...

It all depends on what you mean by sheltering, but it does your kids no favors in the long run if they are never exposed to what's out there.


You're right Harley! I mean just look at those Amish people in you sig :lol

[jenn6162]

I don't have any biblical verses to back up my position, but as for my children I do not shield them. I let them know how crazy and dangerous this world is, and some may flame me but I tell them about the crazy people out there that want to harm children. Now I don't let them listen or watch objectionable materials. TV, music, and such. I want my children to be skeptical of everyone they meet. They know who our friends around town and school are, but I really don't trust anybody. I do wonder if I may be taking away part of their childhood by telling them these things. But after the whole Samantha Runion thing, I made a decision to warn them. They know that man asked her to help find his lost dog. :cry My daughter and son would help anyone who asked something like that. I just don't want to give vague warnings about strangers and stuff. I feel they need to be equipped to handle any situation, especially as they get older. Just a note I would not tell them about child rape or anything, but do tell them about child murderers

[SuzyQ]

When I was in 9th grade a friend of mine was murdered tha last day of school, I am now 48 and that one moment changed how I live today. I am just alert to my surroundings and people around me. I had a great game for my son called Strangers and Dangers and it had questions to ask your children about what would they do it a certain situation and then the parents could hear the answer and add anything else that was needed. We need to arm our children with street smarts in how to protect them. And no I don't mean violence, I mean good common sense.

[imfree]

I'm not talking about "works of darkness". :doh

I'm talking about children being sheltered from the world. Not allowed to experience this life - such as homeschooling vs. public school.



You're not suggesting that homeschoolers don't experience life are you? :doh I sure hope not, because that is a very offensive thing to say. There are A LOT of homeschoolers on this board that would not appreciate such stereotyping, including myself.

And I can tell you from our experience that we DO experiece life and we experience it more abundantly because we CHOOSE not to pollute our minds and our spirits with the filth of this world. :):

My children know what's going on out there in the world, and they are learning about it from a biblical perspective. They are being taught to look at everything with a Christian worldview and we make absolutely no apologies for that. :):

Phil 4:8

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report. If there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy----MEDITATE ON THESE THINGS. (emphasis mine)

This is our life. And it is a beautiful life. It is the life God intended for me and my children to have.

I certainly hope I misunderstood your post (that can often happen via internet). Perhaps you could clarify the above statement?

God bless.

YSIC,
Marty

[ConservPride]

I'm not talking about "works of darkness". :doh

I'm talking about children being sheltered from the world. Not allowed to experience this life - such as homeschooling vs. public school.


Some Christians might see the public institution known as public schools as a work of darkness. It is very clear that God is not wanted in that institution. That institution denies the very fact of God being our Creator. Instead, they teach evolution, trying to change the truth of God into a lie, so that man worships and serves the creature more than the Creator.

These schools take on our children at a very young, tender age. Usually about the age of 5, but they have been trying to force even earlier mandatory ages for children to enter the institution. A 5 year old does not have the full armor of God on, he is still in training. The religious education the children have gotten at home and church are intermingled with worldly teachings and the lies of evolution from this institution. These young minds become confused with mixed teachings, and they are taught to question what their parents tell them.

Children that are homeschooled are experiencing life. They are usually experiencing "real" life more than public school children. Homeschooled children are not sequestered with children their own age in a schoolroom for 8 hours a day. They are interacting with children of various ages and adults as well.

Some homeschooling parents just prefer their children to have all the training and armor possible before they are put into the war zone. Putting them in the war zone while still in training may just get them more war scars.

[abkn]

Some Christians might see the public institution known as public schools as a work of darkness. It is very clear that God is not wanted in that institution. That institution denies the very fact of God being our Creator. Instead, they teach evolution, trying to change the truth of God into a lie, so that man worships and serves the creature more than the Creator.

These schools take on our children at a very young, tender age. Usually about the age of 5, but they have been trying to force even earlier mandatory ages for children to enter the institution. A 5 year old does not have the full armor of God on, he is still in training. The religious education the children have gotten at home and church are intermingled with worldly teachings and the lies of evolution from this institution. These young minds become confused with mixed teachings, and they are taught to question what their parents tell them.

Children that are homeschooled are experiencing life. They are usually experiencing "real" life more than public school children. Homeschooled children are not sequestered with children their own age in a schoolroom for 8 hours a day. They are interacting with children of various ages and adults as well.

Some homeschooling parents just prefer their children to have all the training and armor possible before they are put into the war zone. Putting them in the war zone while still in training may just get them more war scars.

And we are the light of the world. We shed the darkness. Don't let the darkness defeat you. Shine your light of Jesus in every corner!

[ConservPride]

And we are the light of the world. We shed the darkness. Don't let the darkness defeat you. Shine your light of Jesus in every corner!

Would a Christian going into a Muslim mosque and learning their religion be part of "shining your light"? I don't think so. Therefore, IMO, sending a child to a public school to learn non-Christian teachings would not be "shining your light". It would be more like sending your child into an endless, dark wind tunnel with only five minutes worth of oil in their lamp.

[abkn]

Would a Christian going into a Muslim mosque and learning their religion be part of "shining your light"? I don't think so. Therefore, IMO, sending a child to a public school to learn non-Christian teachings would not be "shining your light". It would be more like sending your child into an endless, dark wind tunnel with only five minutes worth of oil in their lamp.

First I'd like to say that I do not have anything against home schooling. If I didn't travel so much I would do it.

Second I do not compare apples with oranges as you have done.

In a Mosque I would be teaching my children to idol worship and pray to a flase God.

In school, my children are learning Reading Writing and Arithmatic, as well as how to handle yourself AS a Christian. Also there are many children in school today that are Christian, but in a Mosqe there are none.

Bad analogy.

[Harley]

Would a Christian going into a Muslim mosque and learning their religion be part of "shining your light"? I don't think so. Therefore, IMO, sending a child to a public school to learn non-Christian teachings would not be "shining your light". It would be more like sending your child into an endless, dark wind tunnel with only five minutes worth of oil in their lamp.

I disagree. I think sending your kid to a Mosque to learn about their religion is a great idea. If Chrisitianity is true it can withstand.

[Harley]

I have no problem with home-schooling either. I do have a problem with creating a Christian-ghetto. It's the accumulative effect of Christian everything... my favorite example is the groups of parents in our church that formed their own version of the Boy Scouts so their kids would not be exposed to non-Christian Scout leaders.

[abkn]

I have no problem with home-schooling either. I do have a problem with creating a Christian-ghetto. It's the accumulative effect of Christian everything... my favorite example is the groups of parents in our church that formed their own version of the Boy Scouts so their kids would not be exposed to non-Christian Scout leaders.

:tin

[Harley]

So what's your point - other than to ridicule my opinion?

[abkn]

So what's your point - other than to ridicule my opinion?

No sorry Harley. I was ridiculing the people in you post, who started their own "group" instead of joining the Boy Scouts.

[imfree]

Some homeschooling parents just prefer their children to have all the training and armor possible before they are put into the war zone. Putting them in the war zone while still in training may just get them more war scars.

Exactly! Very good point. :thumb

I still would like 4fish to clarify how homeschoolers 'don't experience life.'

It seems there are many brothers and sisters out there who have fallen for the stereotypes without being educated and fully informed on the subject of homeschooling. Thank goodness we don't have to base our decision on how we raise our kids on the opinions of others, although it would be really nice if members of our own community of faith would not resort to the typical responses we get from the rest of the world..."No socialization"...."You can't protect your kids from the world"....."They should be witnesses in the public schools".....yada, yada.

The decision to homeschool is not a "knee-jerk" reaction to the evils of this world. I don't know of a single homeschool family that did not seek the Lord and His counsel before taking such a step of faith. And that is what it is...a step of faith.

It is very discouraging to see some of the opinions and responses to homeschooling around here. :(:

[blitzkreig]

How does it go ... “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime"

The truth of the matter is one needs to arm their kids with the tools and the knowledge of how to use them long before they reach their teens. Your ability to impact upon your kids (whether you realize it or not) is pretty well done by the time they reach their teens.

If one were to cloister their kids they are doing them a great disservice. They need to learn in the school of consequences at an early age.

Of course everyone definition of "arming" their kids and "cloistering" them is going to be different.

But the fact is if they "don't know right from wrong" by the 7th grade they (and you) are in for a rough ride.

.

[Caligirl]

I have no problem with home-schooling either. I do have a problem with creating a Christian-ghetto. It's the accumulative effect of Christian everything... my favorite example is the groups of parents in our church that formed their own version of the Boy Scouts so their kids would not be exposed to non-Christian Scout leaders.

Actually, my son did that and it was the best thing ever. He went to a public school so he didn't join this group for the reason you just mentioned.
The reason he joinned this one was because it was still the boy scouts but they did it differently then regular boyscouts. All the dads had to go as well. Each wednesday night all dads and sons would come to the meeting. Exactly like boyscouts, badges and everything, but they did everything with dad and did have that extra small bible study.

As far as protecting them to much, I agree with your college experience. I have seen that happen as well. Some Really good christian kids go wild once they left home!! They usually all come back though.

My kids all know about life and it's horrors because they were all foster children so they have already been exposed. Although I got two as infants, they still had to be told they were drug addicts as babies. Life is not safe, life is not fair. We need to teach them that and about how some people are not very nice as well.

But, we also teach them that wherever they go, God is there and although we are not always kept from harms way, we can trust him to always be there and carry us through.
At the same time, we need to be the example in all we do. They will find out that we are not perfect, but still, they feel safe when they see us trying to follow God and trust him in all things.

[Caligirl]

Exactly! Very good point. :thumb

I still would like 4fish to clarify how homeschoolers 'don't experience life.'

It seems there are many brothers and sisters out there who have fallen for the stereotypes without being educated and fully informed on the subject of homeschooling. Thank goodness we don't have to base our decision on how we raise our kids on the opinions of others, although it would be really nice if members of our own community of faith would not resort to the typical responses we get from the rest of the world..."No socialization"...."You can't protect your kids from the world"....."They should be witnesses in the public schools".....yada, yada.

The decision to homeschool is not a "knee-jerk" reaction to the evils of this world. I don't know of a single homeschool family that did not seek the Lord and His counsel before taking such a step of faith. And that is what it is...a step of faith.

It is very discouraging to see some of the opinions and responses to homeschooling around here. :(:
You do know this works both ways don't you? I totally respect those that want to homeschool, I have many friends that do. But those that have prayed and felt that we were not suppose to homeschool, sometimes our homeschooler friends have a hard time with that as well. I have been accused of throwing my kids out to satan by allowing my kids to go to public school...As you said, it is a private choice, one that the Lord will lead you to by much prayer. Each family is different...

Although, I may change my mind in a couple years, only because schools are now getting worse. At some point, I may then agree it is dangerous to let them go to public schools... :twitch

[antsinmypants]

Imfree- I agree wholeheartedly.

I was homeschooled at the mid point of 6th grade. People argued and kvetched and lamented and "oy vey'ed" their way around us and argued that we wouldn't be socialized, wouldn't be well equipped to handle life, would be like sheep lead to the slaughter when we leave home- and all the stereotypical responses.

We were homeschooled because of a) Bad environment b) having to be up 3 hours before school and outside 1 hour before school in the cold or heat until classes due to the bus.. c)lack of help and education at school d) death threats to my person by other school students ignored by teachers

All of us were homeschooled from the end of 1992 and the last (my sister) graduated this past year.

All three of us are in the working world...

I graduated a year and a half early for my age (I'm 23), and haven't yet gone to college. I want to, but I want to go somewhere that will be challenging, and I won't have to put up with people who aren't serious about their studies. (I take mine very serious as I'm sure some of ya'll have noticed).

In being Homeschooled I have learned how to prepare myself to write memos, and type, and make phone calls in a professional manner, meet and greet, do an efficient job and even do college level (or higher) work and studies. I had a ton of free time, and my parents were sure to suppliment it with work-related studies.

I have also learned how to study on my own without help-- which to me is F-U-N-!-!

My brother and sister are taking seminary classes one or two nights a week at their church.. :noidea

We socialized with adults as well as kids our age, and personally I'd sooner be with adults than kids not serious about life. Life is more than booze, sex and what's going on with Tv.

I've met very few "kids" my age or younger or older-- that have been as seroius as my family when it comes to bible study or history.


I'm not saying this to sing my praises, or the praises of my parents, or homeschooling or whatever.

But I am saying this to say there are more people like myself out here that were homeschooled and are clearly civilized and well equipped to go out into the world.

Ofcourse, just like the Public and Private Schooled-- there are those who aren't.

It all boils dow to this:

1) Parents who serve G-d
2) Parents who serve their children by teaching them the bible and better equipping them
3) Good home environment
4) Parents who will discipline themselves and their children
5) Children who aren't rebelling against their parents and G-d.


If you have most all of those there, the kids should come out ok!

You can Shelter your children at home, yet show them enough of the world for them to be 100% ready to leave, when G-d deems them ready to leave the home.

[imfree]

You do know this works both ways don't you? I

Of course I do. :): Homeschooling is not for everyone. I would never advocate that.

I think Antsinmypants said it well:

It all boils dow to this:

1) Parents who serve G-d
2) Parents who serve their children by teaching them the bible and better equipping them
3) Good home environment
4) Parents who will discipline themselves and their children
5) Children who aren't rebelling against their parents and G-d.


If you have most all of those there, the kids should come out ok!

You can Shelter your children at home, yet show them enough of the world for them to be 100% ready to leave, when G-d deems them ready to leave the home.

I think these principles should apply to all of us...homeschooled or not.

YSIC,
Marty

[Caligirl]

Of course I do. :): Homeschooling is not for everyone. I would never advocate that.

I think Antsinmypants said it well:



I think these principles should apply to all of us...homeschooled or not.

YSIC,
Marty

Yes, I agree as well. I know you didn't think all should homeschool, just your post made me remember those that do.

I know a Pastor who was so dead set against public schools, we were on vacation together in mexico...We got on the subject of homeschooling and he pretty much said I was horrible to send my kids to school.. :wacko

Course we got into it by the pool side of our hotel...LOL. I really liked this guy but when it came to that, well, lets just say we finally had to agree to disagree. I think that he said that every family in his church homeschooled. I think at that time there was about 300 in his church. Most of these kids are pretty sheltered. Alot different then the other kids. How will they cope, only time will tell.
There is a little bit of difference between home schooled and public school children. I am NOT saying good or bad. But teaching sunday school for 21 years for ages 1st and 2nd grade, I could spot them in a second. I could say there was pro's and con's, just like the kids that were in public.

[ConservPride]

First I'd like to say that I do not have anything against home schooling. If I didn't travel so much I would do it.

Second I do not compare apples with oranges as you have done.

In a Mosque I would be teaching my children to idol worship and pray to a flase God.

In school, my children are learning Reading Writing and Arithmatic, as well as how to handle yourself AS a Christian. Also there are many children in school today that are Christian, but in a Mosqe there are none.

Bad analogy.


Children are not just learning the 3 R's in public school. They are also learning lies about the creation and history under the subjects of science and social studies. They are also learning immorality under the guise of sex education and tolerance.

As far as the mosque comment, both Muslim religion and public schools deny the One True God, and I would not send my child to either for any kind of instruction. Mosques may teach the children to worship the wrong God, but public schools deny God outright.

If the schools deny the only real truth, why allow them to teach any other "truths"?

[abkn]

Children are not just learning the 3 R's in public school. They are also learning lies about the creation and history under the subjects of science and social studies. They are also learning immorality under the guise of sex education and tolerance.

As far as the mosque comment, both Muslim religion and public schools deny the One True God, and I would not send my child to either for any kind of instruction. Mosques may teach the children to worship the wrong God, but public schools deny God outright.

If the schools deny the only real truth, why allow them to teach any other "truths"?

When they mentioned evolution to my children, the children started a discussion about it. Many other kids joined in. We have several now coming to bible study with us because of my "littel lights" that I send out in darkness.

They are equiped. They are the light of the world, just like you and I.

[Caligirl]

Children are not just learning the 3 R's in public school. They are also learning lies about the creation and history under the subjects of science and social studies. They are also learning immorality under the guise of sex education and tolerance.

As far as the mosque comment, both Muslim religion and public schools deny the One True God, and I would not send my child to either for any kind of instruction. Mosques may teach the children to worship the wrong God, but public schools deny God outright.

If the schools deny the only real truth, why allow them to teach any other "truths"?

It may get that way soon, but all these years my kids went to school, it was not bad. Most of the teachers I got to know and most were christians. With a few exceptions. In those exceptions, I made sure that I was very involved and my kids would talk about anything the teacher would say that was against God and we would talk about it. Only once did I have to take one of my children out of a certain class. This is 4 kids in the last 18 years...one year to go with my last one. That is a lot of teachers.

My daugther did get into it with a science Teacher, she was telling my daugther she came from an ape. My daugther responded " Well, if you want to say you came from an ape that is fine, but I sure didn't, God made me"!!
:lol

[4fish]

You're not suggesting that homeschoolers don't experience life are you? :doh I sure hope not, because that is a very offensive thing to say. There are A LOT of homeschoolers on this board that would not appreciate such stereotyping, including myself.

I certainly hope I misunderstood your post (that can often happen via internet). Perhaps you could clarify the above statement?

:wave I do believe you misunderstood. I did not suggest any such thing. My apologies to any who read it that way.

If you read my prior posts, a comment was made that the Bible teaches that we are to shelter our children and not allow them to experience the world as a reality. It was in regard to this comment that I mentioned homeschooling as only 1 aspect.

I was wondering what biblical basis for that statement was. :confused

[Harley]

No sorry Harley. I was ridiculing the people in you post, who started their own "group" instead of joining the Boy Scouts.
OK, guess I was a bit defensive. Thanks for the clarification.

[Harley]

...If the schools deny the only real truth, why allow them to teach any other "truths"?
All truth is God's truth.

[Harley]

Just to be clear, and to steer this away from the home-schooling debate, my references were to the accumulative effect, the tendency of Evangelicals to cloister themselves (and their children). It creates what I refered to as a Christian Ghetto, it's unbiblical, and as most ghetto's go, it's not healthy.

As for public education - the church in China is thriving, and you can't get any more anti-God than their education system.

[ConservPride]

:wave I do believe you misunderstood. I did not suggest any such thing. My apologies to any who read it that way.

If you read my prior posts, a comment was made that the Bible teaches that we are to shelter our children and not allow them to experience the world as a reality. It was in regard to this comment that I mentioned homeschooling as only 1 aspect.

I was wondering what biblical basis for that statement was. :confused


Homeschooling v. public schooling was the only aspect you mentioned, although you may have had others in mind. We are told:

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

A school age child is not old, and is still being trained. The children will take in everything they learn whether it be from a parent, teacher, friend, etc. Parents will shelter or shield their children from negative influences to allow them to grow spiritually without being vexed by worldly troubles.

Children are like seeds that have been planted and need to be nurtured until they are ready to produce fruit. Parents may shelter or shield their children so that they are grounded in good soil. They keep them from the way side where they may be devoured by the fowls. They keep them out of the stony places, so they will develop strong roots and will not be scorched and withered away by the sun. They keep them away from the thorns where they won't be choked.

Children have to grow up in the same world, but they don't have to be planted in the same soil.

[ConservPride]

Just to be clear, and to steer this away from the home-schooling debate, my references were to the accumulative effect, the tendency of Evangelicals to cloister themselves (and their children). It creates what I refered to as a Christian Ghetto, it's unbiblical, and as most ghetto's go, it's not healthy.

As for public education - the church in China is thriving, and you can't get any more anti-God than their education system.


So it's unbiblical for a group of people to be separated from another group of people? Wonder why Moses led a group of people out into the wilderness? Wonder why there is going to be a separation of the wheat and tares?

1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.
1Cr 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Cr 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

[Harley]

So it's unbiblical for a group of people to be separated from another group of people? Wonder why Moses led a group of people out into the wilderness? Wonder why there is going to be a separation of the wheat and tares?

1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.
1Cr 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Cr 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Maybe.

As for Moses leading out Israel, that's a specific case and there's no biblical admonition to "go and do likewise."
As for wheats and tares, well that's a future jugment by the Lord and as such is not applicable to the discussion - again no admonition to do likewise. In fact, I would argue it implies just the opposite (but I think either implication pushes the parable beyond its intended meaning), Jesus says let the wheat remains with the tares until the harvest.
As for the Corinthians passage, the operative modifier is "if any man that is called a brother be..." which makes it obvious what Paul is talking about when he says "company" is the fellowship of the church. So, we are to make sure the church remains pure - these verses do not teach that we should be seperated in every manner possible.

I'm not saying it's wrong to seperate ourselves from certain activities, nor to seperate ourselves at certain times. I am saying it is unbiblical to seperate ourselves from unbelievers as much as possible, and just becuase they are unbeleivers.

This Ghetto mentality is foreign to both testaments. Again, I'm just railing against the totality of the accumulative effect. :peace

[Harley]

I think "Shelter" is a great metaphor for what we should do with our kids, and as adults.

A shelter is some place safe; to rest, fellowship, to take refuge against a storm or in time of danger - like a bomb shelter, or a tornado shelter, or a tent while backpacking.

But it also implies that when the storm passes, the bombs have been dropped, or the night's rest is done - we're back at it, in the world as we know it.

So yes, in this manner shelter your kids and yourself for a time; then get out their and mingle with the dirty, but avoid the cloister, the ghetto, the sequestering,...

[ConservPride]

Well since I guess this thread was sparked by my comment I should make a post.

Yes we should be sheltering our kids. We should not play shows, movies, music etc that are wrong. (launguage, morals, attack on God etc)



The other thread is closed, but I have a question regarding your post in the other thread.

What's wrong with Barney?

For instance, shows that I have banned are things like Sponge Bob, Yugioh (sp?), Barney, Brace Face, Card Captor's...etc It does not get played at all.

[4fish]

Homeschooling v. public schooling was the only aspect you mentioned, although you may have had others in mind. We are told:

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Did you read my post??????? I said "such as" homeschooling vs. public school. Did I really need to list all the ways a child can be sheltered from the world??? :B:

The subject is about, actually, as Harley put it, the "Christian ghetto" mentality.

As for Pr 22:6, I posted earlier that it says "train up a child in the way he should go". Key words here!!!!!!

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." (That ones for you Blitz! :lol )

Just because your raised in christian home doesn't mean your a christian. You become a christian on an individual basis. Every child will have to make that choice themselves.

[4fish]

Children are like seeds that have been planted and need to be nurtured until they are ready to produce fruit. Parents may shelter or shield their children so that they are grounded in good soil. They keep them from the way side where they may be devoured by the fowls. They keep them out of the stony places, so they will develop strong roots and will not be scorched and withered away by the sun. They keep them away from the thorns where they won't be choked.

I believe that parable was speaking about the Word of God, not children.

[imfree]

As for public education - the church in China is thriving, and you can't get any more anti-God than their education system.

Hmmm....sorry...but I think this argument is rather weak. The church in China is thriving because of heavy persecution, it has nothing to do with the education system. Historically (and you can see this in the book of Acts) the church grows when it is persecuted. :):

[ConservPride]

I believe that parable was speaking about the Word of God, not children.

Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep [it], and bring forth fruit with patience.

The seed is the word of God which is in us, and needs proper soil to grow. How we are brought up in the word will determine how we withstand and bring forth fruit.

As parents, we are to bring up children in the word of God. Some parents choose not to sow their seeds by the way side, in stony areas, or near the thorns where the devil can take it away, or they may fall away in temptation, or become overcome with the riches and pleasures of this life.

I am using this parable as an example, not interpreting it.

[ConservPride]

Did you read my post??????? I said "such as" homeschooling vs. public school. Did I really need to list all the ways a child can be sheltered from the world??? :B:

The subject is about, actually, as Harley put it, the "Christian ghetto" mentality.

As for Pr 22:6, I posted earlier that it says "train up a child in the way he should go". Key words here!!!!!!

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." (That ones for you Blitz! :lol )

Just because your raised in christian home doesn't mean your a christian. You become a christian on an individual basis. Every child will have to make that choice themselves.


What is so wrong with this mentality? It may not be something you would choose, but why ridicule a fellow Christian for choosing this route? Nothing wrong with surrounding yourself with like-minded individuals. Nothing wrong with keeping yourself from the evils of the world.

What are you going to do when you get to Heaven and realize it is a "Christian Ghetto", as you put it?

[Revelation Sky]

The other thread is closed, but I have a question regarding your post in the other thread.

What's wrong with Barney?

Barney was part of the that video they made that helped endorse H/S lifestyle.

Revelation Sky

[Caligirl]

I am kinda confused by what you mean by "Christian Ghetto"?
It is impossible to live in this world and totally only be surrounded by christians so that can never be totally out of our childrens lives.
We will live next door to unbelievers, work with unbelievers, the children will constantly be around unbelievers as long as we live in this world.

So are you saying that we can teach them to much about God? Or that it is unhealthy to mainly to go Christian functions with your children?
If that is what you are saying, I would totally have to disagree.
I did chose to put my children in public schools, but I have no doubt that probably in another few years, I will probably have to help my daugther with her children. Either home school or Christian schools if there are any left the way that this world is going.

The bible does tell us to teach our children about the Lord, morning, noon and night. Pretty much means to teach the ways of the Lord and what is right in his eyes. And for them to go to mainly Christian functions, I don't see a problem with that at all. There will always be enough times that they will be in this world surrounded by unbelievers that they will by no means be to sheltered from the world, impossible.
But it does make a huge difference when they hang out with believers verses unbelievers. Even if the person is nice. It makes a huge difference when I hang out with believers verses non believers. I have friends that are not christians, but I really couldnt hang out with them all the time.
Unequally yoked doesnt just mean marriage, but with all who you hang out with as well.

[Harley]

Hmmm....sorry...but I think this argument is rather weak. The church in China is thriving because of heavy persecution, it has nothing to do with the education system. Historically (and you can see this in the book of Acts) the church grows when it is persecuted. :):
I'm not saying the education system has any cause/effect correlation with the growth of the church in China. That would be weak. My point was merely factual, despite the best efforts of a totalitarian government to insure universal atheistic education - the church still grows.

The education system here may have a lot of negative elements, but it certainly doesn't compare to the efforts of a totalitarian government to insure universal atheistic education.

[Harley]

I am kinda confused by what you mean by "Christian Ghetto"?
It is impossible to live in this world and totally only be surrounded by christians so that can never be totally out of our childrens lives.
We will live next door to unbelievers, work with unbelievers, the children will constantly be around unbelievers as long as we live in this world.

So are you saying that we can teach them to much about God? Or that it is unhealthy to mainly to go Christian functions with your children?
If that is what you are saying, I would totally have to disagree....
Thanks for asking.

No, I'm not saying any of these things, to which I'd also disagree. And maybe using the term in relationship to kids is not as good as adults.

Think of the characteristics of those in a ghetto, not because people are poor or any particular race, but because they tend to be very homogeneous having very similar lifestyles, basically all in the same situation. Those in a ghetto also have little exposure and contact with anyone outside of their situation so their impressions may be skewed. They also gain no benefit from those outside the ghetto, nor can they serve beneficial to anyone outside the ghetto. Finally, those outside the ghetto, because of lack of contact also, only view those in the ghetto through a skewed chariacature.

It becomes a Christian Ghetto when the totality of the accumulated "Christian only" events among a bunch of believers creates a sub-culture similar to a ghetto as described above.

[Dear2HIM]

In as few as words as possible,
I grew up "sheltered" in a VERY different way than I am sheltering my kids.
My friends and I were "sheltered" by sending us to church, youth group, monitoring our t.v. and movies, rock music, sent to Christian schools.
Parents thought to raise us for God was simply to keep us from the smut of the world. The group I was in had plenty of protection, but no training/teaching by their parents. Parents are given the sole responsibility before God to train up their children. Yes, we can involve others in that responsibility, but we can't relinquish the responsibility to others.

Kids I knew went wild either before graduation or shortly after.
I grew up feeling sheltered, but not "trained" spiritually.

There is a difference in raising up kids in fear of what the world will do to them, and raising them up in the fear of the Lord.

A parent who is around and training their kids and teaching them scripture, memorizing together, praying together, and talking together will have many opportunities to see what the worlds throws at us with intent to destroy, used as opportunities for learning and good.

BTW, I homeschool too :thumb Everyday is an adventure. :twitch :lol

[Dear2HIM]

Thanks for asking.

No, I'm not saying any of these things, to which I'd also disagree. And maybe using the term in relationship to kids is not as good as adults.

Think of the characteristics of those in a ghetto, not because people are poor or any particular race, but because they tend to be very homogeneous having very similar lifestyles, basically all in the same situation. Those in a ghetto also have little exposure and contact with anyone outside of their situation so their impressions may be skewed. They also gain no benefit from those outside the ghetto, nor can they serve beneficial to anyone outside the ghetto. Finally, those outside the ghetto, because of lack of contact also, only view those in the ghetto through a skewed chariacature.

It becomes a Christian Ghetto when the totality of the accumulated "Christian only" events among a bunch of believers creates a sub-culture similar to a ghetto as described above.

Your last paragraph best explains what you are trying to say. Christians together doesn't = Christian Getto. However, we as humans can sort of create it quite easily in such an environment and mistakenly think we have made ourselves a little eutopia.
Likewise, Christians mingling with culture doesn't = spiritual growth. and visa versa all around with all of it ;):

[4fish]

What is so wrong with this mentality?

Which mentality? Sheltering our children? Show me where the Bible tells us we should.

It may not be something you would choose, but why ridicule a fellow Christian for choosing this route?

I wouldn't choose to seclude myself or my children in any group and I'm not riduculing anyone.

Nothing wrong with surrounding yourself with like-minded individuals.

I agree.

Nothing wrong with keeping yourself from the evils of the world.

Now this I disagree with and if you had read my prior posts you would know why.

What are you going to do when you get to Heaven and realize it is a "Christian Ghetto", as you put it?

I didn't put it that way, someone else did and they've explained it quite well. Furthermore, I don't believe Heaven will be a "Christian Ghetto".

[Harley]

What is so wrong with this mentality? It may not be something you would choose, but why ridicule a fellow Christian for choosing this route? Nothing wrong with surrounding yourself with like-minded individuals. Nothing wrong with keeping yourself from the evils of the world.

What are you going to do when you get to Heaven and realize it is a "Christian Ghetto", as you put it?
You are right, there is nothing wrong with surrounding yourselves with like-minded individuals, as long as you don't surround yourself with only like-minded individuals.

I think "the mentality" is "wrong" when taken to the accumulative extreme. So I can't say I think YOU are wrong since I don't know how far you've taken it.

It becomes a ghetto when you view everything "outside" as evil. Granted, there is a lot of evil in the world. But the vast majority of the lost have the same concerns for their children, the same pains, the same emotions. as we do - without the hope of Christ.

This should not drive us to avoid them, it should drive us to engage our lives with them.

I think every believer should belong to a club, or have a hobby, or belong to some group that is made up of mostly non-believers. I ride with a HOG Chapter, there are a coupld other Christians but the majority are not. They are also not evil, nor should they be avoided like some plague. They are nice folks who need the Savior much like I did before someone bothered to spend time with a me.

[Harley]

Your last paragraph best explains what you are trying to say. Christians together doesn't = Christian Getto. However, we as humans can sort of create it quite easily in such an environment and mistakenly think we have made ourselves a little eutopia.
Likewise, Christians mingling with culture doesn't = spiritual growth. and visa versa all around with all of it ;):
Exactly! Both extremes are to be avoided.

[Harley]

As I said before, the extreme "Hunker in the Bunker" mentality is foreign to both Testaments.

[Harley]

ConnservPride,
So far you have not interacted with my responses. You made several comments (e.g. Moses, wheat & tares, Corinthians) to which I responded. You have gone on to make other comments about my Ghetto analogy, etc.

You offered the three above as examples of complete seperation. I refutted them. I would like to see a rebuttal to my refutation - either concede my refutation or refute them yourself - before we just go on making additional arguments.

Thanks.

[Caligirl]

I guess I see what you are saying somewhat Harley, just I don't see it as even being possible. There is no "Christian Ghetto" to keep them in. Unless of course you lock them up in your house. :twitch

But I had some parents come to mind as I was typing this and I see your point. Any thing taken to the extreme can be unhealthy even though the motives were good.

So to keep children out of sports or any activity because it does not have the Christian lable on it, would be going over board.

BUT, when I sent my kids to camp, I would pick a Christian one, verses secular if I had a choice. If I had a choice of a Christian concert verse secular, Christian. If I had a choice of a Christian movie, verse secular, Christian.

That does not mean that I wouldn't let them go to Soccer camp, or see a movie that wasn't smutty just because it wasn't christian.

But one thing I have learned in these years of raising kids, a Christian label, does not mean they are safe from the world. A christian camp, is not safe from the world, same things happen there as a secular camp. A Church activity it not safe from the world, the world sneeks in there as well.
That is why I am saying there is no such thing really as a "Christian Ghetto".
So even if a parent were to only send them to Christian things, Trust me, they are still getting much of the world and are not being sheltered.

And your right Dear2him, you need that training in the home as well. Pray together, read the word together, and be the example or it doesnt work very well.

As fas as teenagers going wild. I have seen alot of unbelievers go wild in teenage years as well. I have seen kids that have been bougth up in both Christian worlds, strict, and not so strict, and still they rebell for a time.
I don't think there is a perfect formula to keep them from doing that, just pray hard and if they do, pray they come back soon.
The difference between christian kids rebelling and non Christians, the Christian ones know where to go when they finally hit bottom..TO JESUS.

That does not mean a parent failed because their child rebelled. If that were true, you would have to say God failed since he is the perfect father and we are his children. We know God did NOT fail. It comes down to the personal choice for each person, even our children.

[Caligirl]

I think every believer should belong to a club, or have a hobby, or belong to some group that is made up of mostly non-believers. I ride with a HOG Chapter, there are a coupld other Christians but the majority are not. They are also not evil, nor should they be avoided like some plague. They are nice folks who need the Savior much like I did before someone bothered to spend time with a me.

Sure, I totally agree. We are to be out in the world to share Jesus with all.

I do believe that kids can witness to other children and be very effective. God uses the littles ones all the time. I have seen God use mine im HUGE ways. And the cool thing was, they would see many answered prayers as well for praying for some the kids that came into our lives. That really bought my kids close to God, to be used by God is the most awesome experience the kids can have. If you don't allow them around any non christian kids, they are missing out on the most important thing they can ever do, be used by God to brings others to Jesus. :clap

[Kitty2kat]

I haven't read this entire thread, but enough. I have my own opinions regarding sheltering children, as do each of you, we all should do what we feel is best for our children. With my own children, I pretty much shelter them when they are very young, but as they grow physically and spirtually, I gradually expose them to "worldy" things. The reality is, there is absolutely no way of keeping the world away from your children, eventually they will be exposed to it.

I have a five year old and a 14 year old, both of whom I homeschool. The five year old is not allowed to cross the street, can only play in our yard, and sometimes play with our neighbors kids in their yard, but I do let her watch cartoons, certain movies, which she will ask questions about, and I answer them. Now my 14 year old has quite a bit more freedom, she can ride her bike to a friends house, have sleep overs, go to the movies but for the most part she doesn't do anything without asking first. That is how I raised her, if she wants to do something she always asks, but yesterday we went to the library. She went to the Young Adult section where there are novels for kids more her age, but there are also books about gay and lesbian relationships, domestic violence, teen sex, etc. She was looking for some fiction to read, and she was picking stuff up that might have some "bad" stuff in it and she wasn't sure if she should get them. I had to tell her that I don't want her to be afraid to read something because it might have some questionable material in it. I told her that I felt she is discerning enough to see past that. I even told her that if she wants to know and see what the "other side" is thinking she can read books expressing opposing views. It is important as our children grow, to have an understanding of the world we live in, and not be ignorant of it. We are really blessed with our oldest daughter because she is very discerning, and truly loves the Lord, and I have to trust her to make wise decisions and trust that God will lead her down the right path. I will do the same with out youngest child, right now she is pretty sheltered, but not ignorant, as she continues to mature then she will also be exposed to more worldly things. It would really be a disservice to my children if I let them get into adulthood, without knowing how to survive in the world.

[Dear2HIM]

I think every believer should belong to a club, or have a hobby, or belong to some group that is made up of mostly non-believers. I ride with a HOG Chapter, there are a coupld other Christians but the majority are not. They are also not evil, nor should they be avoided like some plague. They are nice folks who need the Savior much like I did before someone bothered to spend time with a me.
Parents really need to know their kids. Ya gotta spend time with them to know them, what they can handle. This is why the verse refered previously by a different poster about training them as they would go (or understood as according to their bent) is important.

Parents as a generalization, whether Christian or not, are lacking in spending time with their kids. Taking 20 minutes at bed time to sit and listen to them and pray together when their hearts are open can help us gain better understanding as to where they are spiritually and developmentally.

One of my kids would be harmed by going to camp right now, the other (younger) one would have a blast and it would be great for him. It comes back to knowing your kids, and having the Holy Spirit be the ultimate teacher, not our own independent thinking, parenting books, or following how the Jones' are raising their kids.

[Dear2HIM]

I am always uncomfortable with the idea of our children being missionaries in school. Understand, that many schools out there provide a somewhat hostile environment for children who are not mature, have their roots in their faith solid. They are there for 6-7 hours a day, then at home for maybe an hour with their homework, then off the clubs and practices for 1 hour with a quick supper in there.
How can these kids be trained up if they are only getting it on church on sundays (many children's programs are fun and fluff) and the prayers around supper table(or mobile kitchen --the mini van). When kids are in the public school system, day care, sports, etc....parents need to take every moment to fill their minds with the truth. We expect too much of our kids, at times. We would expect a missionary (even local missionaries) to recieve training! Lots of it! BEFORE going out. Are parents training their children? Are they reading the bible together daily, discussing the difference between the mind of the world and the mind of Christ? Missionaries are sent in teams, to support each other. They are older, have lived in the world, have had experiences which have provided them the opportunity to have stronger faith (Paul -- enduring trials produces stronger faith) Sending out children to be light.....I rather would provide the atmosphere for my kids to develop their light and make sure when it is their time to shine, it isn't snuffed out.

This isn't a rant against a families school options. Whatever the school or lifestyle a family has, we need to spend TIME training our children in words, actions, example.

[imfree]

I am always uncomfortable with the idea of our children being missionaries in school. Understand, that many schools out there provide a somewhat hostile environment for children who are not mature, have their roots in their faith solid. They are there for 6-7 hours a day, then at home for maybe an hour with their homework, then off the clubs and practices for 1 hour with a quick supper in there.
How can these kids be trained up if they are only getting it on church on sundays (many children's programs are fun and fluff) and the prayers around supper table(or mobile kitchen --the mini van). When kids are in the public school system, day care, sports, etc....parents need to take every moment to fill their minds with the truth. We expect too much of our kids, at times. We would expect a missionary (even local missionaries) to recieve training! Lots of it! BEFORE going out. Are parents training their children? Are they reading the bible together daily, discussing the difference between the mind of the world and the mind of Christ? Missionaries are sent in teams, to support each other. They are older, have lived in the world, have had experiences which have provided them the opportunity to have stronger faith (Paul -- enduring trials produces stronger faith) Sending out children to be light.....I rather would provide the atmosphere for my kids to develop their light and make sure when it is their time to shine, it isn't snuffed out.

This isn't a rant against a families school options. Whatever the school or lifestyle a family has, we need to spend TIME training our children in words, actions, example.

Dear2HIM, thank you for expressing so well what many homeschooling parents know to be right for their families.

And you're right, it all boils down to spending time with our children, getting to know them intimately.

God bless you. :):

[Harley]

Thanks for the interaction... keep in mind I was not speaking soley about kids, but more generally about families, and the "Ghetto" is just a metaphor... or would it be a simile?

I think simile.

[Caligirl]

I am always uncomfortable with the idea of our children being missionaries in school. Understand, that many schools out there provide a somewhat hostile environment for children who are not mature, have their roots in their faith solid. They are there for 6-7 hours a day, then at home for maybe an hour with their homework, then off the clubs and practices for 1 hour with a quick supper in there.
How can these kids be trained up if they are only getting it on church on sundays (many children's programs are fun and fluff) and the prayers around supper table(or mobile kitchen --the mini van). When kids are in the public school system, day care, sports, etc....parents need to take every moment to fill their minds with the truth. We expect too much of our kids, at times. We would expect a missionary (even local missionaries) to recieve training! Lots of it! BEFORE going out. Are parents training their children? Are they reading the bible together daily, discussing the difference between the mind of the world and the mind of Christ? Missionaries are sent in teams, to support each other. They are older, have lived in the world, have had experiences which have provided them the opportunity to have stronger faith (Paul -- enduring trials produces stronger faith) Sending out children to be light.....I rather would provide the atmosphere for my kids to develop their light and make sure when it is their time to shine, it isn't snuffed out.

This isn't a rant against a families school options. Whatever the school or lifestyle a family has, we need to spend TIME training our children in words, actions, example.

Yes, we need to have that balance for sure. And, it really does make a difference on how the Holy Spirit is going to use each child and family. There is no perfect formula, as you said, by the Holy spirit, not by the books we may read.
My family is a little different then some others. I have four that were foster that we kept. I had two rebell as they got older. The two that did, I didn't get them till they were 4 and 6 years old. The other two that I got as infants, they have not rebelled and are 17 and 19.
Did my older two rebell because of what they saw at an early age? Is it because of some generational sin? I really have no clue of the "whys". Would they have rebelled if I had them as infants, don't know.
But I do know this, there was a time that I even question there salvation, not anymore though. As much as they have rebelled, there is no doubt in my mind that they are saved but paying a huge price for the time they have rebelled.
Throughout all this, did they ever doubt God's love, if they did, it was very short lived. Do they know they will be punished for their rebellion, yes. Do they blame God for that, No, only themselves.
But one of the things that both of them really hold on to is this. When they were young, they were little missionaries and saw God work in huge ways. They came out of a very dark world and wanted to share it with all. I couldn't of kept them from doing that even if I tried too.

Because of that, God bought many other children into our lives that had horrible lives. Should I have kept them away from my children? That is when the Holy Spirit came in. Some I did, some I didn't. It all comes down to what the Lord wants and what his will is. There is no formula. It all comes down to how the Holy Spirit leads you. That doesn't always mean a easy carefree life for any of us.

Many children out there that need his love, many christians out there refuse to help them because of the influence they may have on their own children.
It all comes down to....are we willing to listen to that small still voice?

[Dear2HIM]

Thanks for the interaction... keep in mind I was not speaking soley about kids, but more generally about families, and the "Ghetto" is just a metaphor... or would it be a simile?

I think simile.

I took it as much :):

[Dear2HIM]

Yes, we need to have that balance for sure. And, it really does make a difference on how the Holy Spirit is going to use each child and family. There is no perfect formula, as you said, by the Holy spirit, not by the books we may read.
My family is a little different then some others. I have four that were foster that we kept. I had two rebell as they got older. The two that did, I didn't get them till they were 4 and 6 years old. The other two that I got as infants, they have not rebelled and are 17 and 19.
Did my older two rebell because of what they saw at an early age? Is it because of some generational sin? I really have no clue of the "whys". Would they have rebelled if I had them as infants, don't know.
But I do know this, there was a time that I even question there salvation, not anymore though. As much as they have rebelled, there is no doubt in my mind that they are saved but paying a huge price for the time they have rebelled.
Throughout all this, did they ever doubt God's love, if they did, it was very short lived. Do they know they will be punished for their rebellion, yes. Do they blame God for that, No, only themselves.
But one of the things that both of them really hold on to is this. When they were young, they were little missionaries and saw God work in huge ways. They came out of a very dark world and wanted to share it with all. I couldn't of kept them from doing that even if I tried too.

Because of that, God bought many other children into our lives that had horrible lives. Should I have kept them away from my children? That is when the Holy Spirit came in. Some I did, some I didn't. It all comes down to what the Lord wants and what his will is. There is no formula. It all comes down to how the Holy Spirit leads you. That doesn't always mean a easy carefree life for any of us.

Many children out there that need his love, many christians out there refuse to help them because of the influence they may have on their own children.
It all comes down to....are we willing to listen to that small still voice?
:thumb :clap :hug
When I think of how your family has not only changed the lives of these four people, but also the lives of their future spouses, children, etc....

wow.

I've also worked with the foster care/social service system. dh and I and dd lived part time in a group foster home. The hardest thing is seeing the system holding on to the kids, unable to be adopted, unable to have any secure home.

I'm hoping that God's will for my family includes foster care/adoption in our future. Sad that it isn't now, but better to be patient about such things!

God bless you Caligirl! I've read in other threads about your family and you have much wisdom to offer others from your experiences.

[Caligirl]

:thumb :clap :hug
When I think of how your family has not only changed the lives of these four people, but also the lives of their future spouses, children, etc....

wow.

I've also worked with the foster care/social service system. dh and I and dd lived part time in a group foster home. The hardest thing is seeing the system holding on to the kids, unable to be adopted, unable to have any secure home.

I'm hoping that God's will for my family includes foster care/adoption in our future. Sad that it isn't now, but better to be patient about such things!

God bless you Caligirl! I've read in other threads about your family and you have much wisdom to offer others from your experiences.

I hope God opens the door soon for you Dear2him, I can tell you have a good heart to be able to help those little ones that are out there.
I really don't think we have much time left, so if it God's will for you to do it, I pray that it is soon.
With us, the system tried to take over, but God was stronger. We ended up being able to keep the four. We even had a grandma come into the picture, she wanted to take my youngest but not her half sister. Normally the courts would side with the bio, but not this time. They told the grandma no, that she was better off with us and her sister. The social worker was shocked and happy she got to stay with us, I told her that it was God... :):

It is hard call sometimes when to shelter our children, when not too. There were a few kids that I didn't allow my kids to hang around with when they got older, they thanked me for it later. But we still would pray for them.

Those that did have problems that the Lord showed us we should help, my kids never went to their house, it was always them coming to our house which seem to work just fine. I was always home and God was able to reach some of these children through my kids and we bought them to church as well.

When I first got my kids, I was thinking that some of the Christian parents, even my friends, wouldn't want there kids to hang out with mine because the two older ones were pretty bad at first. But, God was good, that never happened and they always were accepted by all in the church and our house was always full of kids.
God is good and so faithful :clap

[ConservPride]

ConnservPride,
So far you have not interacted with my responses. You made several comments (e.g. Moses, wheat & tares, Corinthians) to which I responded. You have gone on to make other comments about my Ghetto analogy, etc.

You offered the three above as examples of complete seperation. I refutted them. I would like to see a rebuttal to my refutation - either concede my refutation or refute them yourself - before we just go on making additional arguments.

Thanks.


You refuted that these verses had anything to do with separating ourselves from unbelievers, and that the Bible does not support separation.

The Bible does support separating ourselves from unbelievers. We are told that if one does not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, that we should not receive him in our house, nor bid him God speed.

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

We are told not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.

2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

We are told to separate ourselves from them.

2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

[Caligirl]

You refuted that these verses had anything to do with separating ourselves from unbelievers, and that the Bible does not support separation.

The Bible does support separating ourselves from unbelievers. We are told that if one does not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, that we should not receive him in our house, nor bid him God speed.

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

We are told not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.

2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

We are told to separate ourselves from them.

2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


I think you may be taking those verses to the extreme and not the way God intended.
We don't let them in our house if they are preaching another doctrine. So if a JW comes over and is always trying to convert you, don't let them in.

Not being unequally yoked would be in a marriage or good friends that you would always be with. To have a spouse or best friend that doesn't love God doesnt work to well.

But being out in the world, work, neighbors, you will have friends that are not believers that God would want you to witness too. I have had neighbors that have been unbelievers but then accepted the Lord. God did use us in many ways to reach them. I watched there kids for them, we always would be there for them when we could.

Jesus did have dinner with non believers and went to their house so that verse can't mean all unbelievers should not be welcome in your home.
If you have a neighbor that you can witness to, are you saying you would never invite them over?