Is Calvary Chapel...(pruned)

[Gordon b]

Is Calvary Chapel a denomination. Yes, I know they started out as a single Nondenom church. Now they are a large group of churches, They have a central governing body, a doctrine, a statement of faith, a philosophy of ministry etc. THe nice website http://www.calvarychapel.org/ didn't answer my question. To my way of thinking they have grown into a denomination. :confused

[onsolidrock]

Yes, I would think that they qualify.

Some Baptist groups are more fellowships rather than denominations.

[70thWeek]

Is Calvary Chapel a denomination. Yes, I know they started out as a single Nondenom church. Now they are a large group of churches, They have a central governing body, a doctrine, a statement of faith, a philosophy of ministry etc. THe nice website http://www.calvarychapel.org/ didn't answer my question. To my way of thinking they have grown into a denomination. :confused

Though they will vehemently deny it, they are a denomination. They have their own school and their own publishing house. I think that fits at least one definition of a denomination.

[walkbyfaith]

DH and I attend a Calvary Chapel. I would say they qualify as a denomination, whether leadership thinks so or not. :):

[BarbT]

{off topic} Whatever Calvary Chapels are they are wonderful places of worship. I highly encouraging those seeking a good church home to find a CC and be blessed. :thumb {/return to topic}

[4fish]

Denomination can be defined in many ways -- in general it is a religious group/congregation/body of believers united by a common/distinct faith and form of worship and discipline.

If you read their statement of faith, it is the basic doctrine of christianity. Nothing more, nothing less.

Calvary Chapel is not a denominational church, nor are they opposed to denominations as such, only their over-emphasis of the doctrinal differences that have led to the division of the Body of Christ.

They don't even have an official "membership"! (like some mega-churches brag about!)

Therefore, since they do not have a distinct common faith, their own form of worship or discipline among their "membership", they are not a denomination.
:heh

[Gordon b]

...............Therefore, since they do not have a distinct common faith, their own form of worship or discipline among their "membership", they are not a denomination.
:heh
Well,... 4fish . What dictionary is that def from ?

I think CC is great ! I have many friends who attend one here. Just drives me nuts to hear them call themselves nondenom. I don't know why it bothers me. oh well.

[Hootmon]

Spiffy. I went to their web site and there is a new Meeting place about 20 miles from me. Will need to check it out.

[PlentyGroovy]

:clap Yay!

[pilgrimian]

Spiffy. I went to their web site and there is a new Meeting place about 20 miles from me. Will need to check it out.

Wow. They're everywhere. I have really enjoyed some CC pastors, while disagreeing with others. Raul Ries (CC Golden Springs) does not understand what Dispensationalists believe, and has spoken ill of us before. Strange to me. I enjoy listening to Pancho Juarez on my way to work each day. Bob Hoekstra is another good Calvary Chapel fellow (pastored CC Irvine for a number of years and is now in Texas with Living In Christ Ministries). Don McClure is also pretty interesting to listen to (CC Laguna). And, of course, Chuck Missler is interesting to listen to...though he gets deep into left field now and then.

Blessings,
Matthew

[4fish]

Well,... 4fish . What dictionary is that def from ?

I actually looked in 5 different dictionaries - from Christian to Miriam-Webster. That's why I gave a general definition as all had the same meaning but in different words. :):

[hopehome]

Well, they have a Pope.

[blitzkreig]

Well, they have a Pope.No Calvary Chapel has a Chuck.

The Pope is with that other bunch who wear funny hats with long flowing robes and forbid to marry and have been known to abstain from meat ...

.

[hopehome]

Chuck=their pope IMO.

[hopehome]

What?

[Christine]

Chuck=their pope IMO. :rolleyes

What an insult to all Calvary Chapel members of this board (including me) to suggest that we worship a man -- and 3 of your 5 posts on the board no less. :(:

Chuck Smith merely started this group out of the Jesus Movement in the 60's by not shunning people based on their looks (long hair, etc...)

It has grown by leaps and bounds because they teach straight from the WORD and not the Gospel of St. Self Esteem or other fairy tales that misconstrue scripture beyond recognition.

Please take your nonsensical comments to the Apologetics forum.

[hopehome]

Explain please.

Chuck is the sole "Elder" of the church. Absolutely everything must go through him. He has the power to approve or disapprove anything and his word is final. I was a former CC member until I learned of this. Chuck himself compares his role in the CC to that of Moses. Moses was a shadow of Jesus Christ! Chuck is on dangerous ground IMO.

http://procinwarn.com/ccclergy.htm

[Gordon b]

Never thought I would see Calvary Chapel info on a website that exposes cults. :confused

[imfree]

Never thought I would see Calvary Chapel info on a website that exposes cults. :confused

Some people have nothing better to do. :rolleyes

[sracer]

Chuck is the sole "Elder" of the church. Absolutely everything must go through him. He has the power to approve or disapprove anything and his word is final. I was a former CC member until I learned of this. Chuck himself compares his role in the CC to that of Moses. Moses was a shadow of Jesus Christ! Chuck is on dangerous ground IMO.

http://procinwarn.com/ccclergy.htm
Wow, is that webpage wrong about CC on virtually every level. Can you provide evidence to support your claim that "absolutely everything must go through him.He has the power to approve or disapprove anything and his word is final"?

Chuck Smith is human like everyone else. And I'm sure that he has made mistakes. I'm also sure that there are those who are envious of the success of his ministry. There have always been detractors of the Calvary Chapel movement... especially being accused of preaching "cheap grace".

But a sincere examination of Calvary Chapel's distinctives, the teaching/preaching of ALL of God's Word, and the fruits of the ministry are proof enough that CC brings people to Jesus, and glory to God.

Can people point out to a CC pastor here, or a CC fellowship there, and claim that they are not on the right path? Sure... churches are made up of imperfect people. But to make a blanket sweeping statement against an entire movement whose focus is on Jesus and God's Word is a bit sad.

[Christine]

hopehome,

Interesting website. :hrm

Hows about we put a little context into this...

That site claims that Chuck Smith refers to himself as a Moses, but then adds 2+2 and comes up with 7 in citing Deuteronomy 18:15 -- the verse that Mohammed claimed referred to him when he started Islam.

Lets look at that:

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

When has Chuck Smith EVER claimed to be a prophet? :ear

When has Chuck Smith EVER claimed to be THE prophet? :ear

IF Chuck Smith was referring to Moses, is it not even *remotely* possible that he was referring to the fact that Moses lead a half a million jews out of captivity in Egypt?

Now, lets tie this into your original accusation: The Pope.

When has Chuck Smith ever:
1. Threatened to withhold salvation (as the pope claims he can)?
2. Told people that they need Chuck (or his pastors) to forgive them?
3. Claimed to be THE 'vicar' of Christ?
4. Claimed CC was THE church of Christ?
5. Asked that anyone bow to him or otherwise worship him?
6. Spoke ex-cathedra (claimed infallibility)?

I LIKE the fact that this denomination has accountability in their pastors for their doctrines. I LIKE the fact that I can walk into any CC anywhere I may be travelling to and not have to worry about a pastor pushing a homosexual agenda or the fact the abortion is 'just a woman's choice'. Too many denoms out there just take their portion of the $ proceeds and let the church leadership go off on whatever unscriptural tangent that the wind tosses them in (thinking of the Methodists and Episcopalian denoms specifically).

I don't know what axe you have to grind with CC, but it isn't for everyone. Personally, I LIKE the study of the bible chapter by verse. Others prefer topical sermons. To each his own as the Lord leads. :noidea

What I don't want to see here are false accusations being slung. Chuck Smith is the pope, indeed. :tsk What an insult to him, his church and those of us who worship the Lord there.

[Michele93]

I LIKE the fact that this denomination has accountability in their pastors for their doctrines. I LIKE the fact that I can walk into any CC anywhere I may be travelling to and not have to worry about a pastor pushing a homosexual agenda or the fact the abortion is 'just a woman's choice'. Too many denoms out there just take their portion of the $ proceeds and let the church leadership go off on whatever unscriptural tangent that the wind tosses them in (thinking of the Methodists and Episcopalian denoms specifically).



Christine,

I am an Episcopal Christian. While there has been some disagreement regarding church stance on issues I think you will find that we stick to the Scriptures. As in all denominations (and non-denominations as some call their churches) there are folks with divergent views. Please don't paint all Episcopalians as going 'off on whatever unscriptural tangent the wind tosses them in'. Check out your local Episcopal Church or Cathedral, listen to the sermons, and follow the service. Read the '39 Articles', the 'Catachism', and the Apostles Creed in the Book of Common Prayer; it is there you will find our core beliefs. Talk with your local Episcopal priest and the laity in the church. Please don't paint us all with a brush that just isn't correct.

Michele

[Aineo1]

Christine,

I am an Episcopal Christian. While there has been some disagreement regarding church stance on issues I think you will find that we stick to the Scriptures. As in all denominations (and non-denominations as some call their churches) there are folks with divergent views. Please don't paint all Episcopalians as going 'off on whatever unscriptural tangent the wind tosses them in'. Check out your local Episcopal Church or Cathedral, listen to the sermons, and follow the service. Read the '39 Articles', the 'Catachism', and the Apostles Creed in the Book of Common Prayer; it is there you will find our core beliefs. Talk with your local Episcopal priest and the laity in the church. Please don't paint us all with a brush that just isn't correct.

MicheleHowever, by approving the ordination of Bishop Robinson (who is divorced and living with his gay partner) the Episcopal Church in America has caused problems for the rest of Christianity. I get this single act thrown in my face by gay activist who view this single act as evidence that all Bible believing Christians are homophobic bigots out to control non-Christians and the United States.

[hopehome]

I didn't say Chuck Smith was a Roman Catholic Pope, I said he was a CC Pope. Listing a string of adjatives explaing the Roman Pope proves nothing. Chuck is the sole leader of the CC and that doesn't need to be proven it's simply a fact. I don't think he's an evil man per 'se, but he is wrong on church governent.

I was part of a church that sought to join the CC, they were refused because we had two pastors. They told us that "Chuck doesn't approve of the two pastor model, if one of you steps down he will approve your membership." This didn't bother most of our members but it shocked me and sent me looking for more info on Mr. Smith.

[70thWeek]

Wow, is that webpage wrong about CC on virtually every level. Can you provide evidence to support your claim that "absolutely everything must go through him.He has the power to approve or disapprove anything and his word is final"?

Chuck Smith is human like everyone else. And I'm sure that he has made mistakes. I'm also sure that there are those who are envious of the success of his ministry. There have always been detractors of the Calvary Chapel movement... especially being accused of preaching "cheap grace".

But a sincere examination of Calvary Chapel's distinctives, the teaching/preaching of ALL of God's Word, and the fruits of the ministry are proof enough that CC brings people to Jesus, and glory to God.

Can people point out to a CC pastor here, or a CC fellowship there, and claim that they are not on the right path? Sure... churches are made up of imperfect people. But to make a blanket sweeping statement against an entire movement whose focus is on Jesus and God's Word is a bit sad.

The points raised by the author of that site levelled at Smith are applicable to just about all revival type movements (Luther and Wesley in particular). I think that the author stretches things a bit too much. It seems that he was simply looking for a reason to discredit CC and Smith.

[Silly Daddy]

The only thing Chuck Smith can do to a Calvary Chapel is take away the name, or prevent a church from using it, because it is franchised. Calvary Chapels are autonomous.

[hopehome]

The only thing Chuck Smith can do to a Calvary Chapel is take away the name, or prevent a church from using it, because it is franchised.

Ok, but that shows you that when it comes to the name of that "denom." Chuck weilds all the power, just like a Pope would.

[EmmieAZ]

CC has set the bar high for us. It was our first church home, and after we moved, we have yet to settle down in a new church - there are no CCs near us now. IMHO, CCs are the best I have ever been to.

[Paul]

Ok, but that shows you that when it comes to the name of that "denom." Chuck weilds all the power, just like a Pope would.Are you saying that if Chuck denied the Virgin Birth, for example, all the other CC pastors would too?

[Silly Daddy]

Ok, but that shows you that when it comes to the name of that "denom." Chuck weilds all the power, just like a Pope would.
So whats with the name? Our group isn't affiliated yet, so we call ourselves "Calvary Fellowship." I don't think Pastor Chuck cares one way or another, other than not wanting the Calvary Chapel name linked to un-biblical teaching. To me, thats a good thing.

[Chris4Christ]

I didn't say Chuck Smith was a Roman Catholic Pope, I said he was a CC Pope. Listing a string of adjatives explaing the Roman Pope proves nothing.
Listing a string of adjectives explaining the Roman Pope proves EVERYTHING, since he is the ONLY Pope in existence. When you call Chuck Smith a Pope, there is only ONE comparison that can possibly be made and that is to the ONLY Pope available for comparison, the Roman Catholic Pope. THEY have created the office of Pope in their church. THEY have defined it. You cannot now take that term and apply it to somebody else while also claiming a different definition for it. :tsk

[hopehome]

Are you saying that if Chuck denied the Virgin Birth, for example, all the other CC pastors would too?

I am saying that if he did indeed do that, he could require the teaching of such at any and all that wanted to keep the Calvary Chapel name.

If that isn't "Pope like" I don't know what is. He answers to no one. Only he decides what is sound biblical teaching for CC churches, no one else.

[hopehome]

Listing a string of adjectives explaining the Roman Pope proves EVERYTHING, since he is the ONLY Pope in existence. When you call Chuck Smith a Pope, there is only ONE comparison that can possibly be made and that is to the ONLY Pope available for comparison, the Roman Catholic Pope. THEY have created the office of Pope in their church. THEY have defined it. You cannot now take that term and apply it to somebody else while also claiming a different definition for it. :tsk

I can, and I do. :D:

The Roman Catholic Pope and the Calvary Chapel Pope have different beliefs, but Popes they are.

In all honesty I am mostly being facetious, but I do think Chuck has some very unbiblical beliefs in regard to church government.

[hopehome]

Listen to the Calvary Chapel messages here;

http://sinnersaint.org/id5.html

[Paul]

I am saying that if he did indeed do that, he could require the teaching of such at any and all that wanted to keep the Calvary Chapel name.

If that isn't "Pope like" I don't know what is. He answers to no one. Only he decides what is sound biblical teaching for CC churches, no one else.No, no, what I asked was if Chuck denied the Virgin Birth would the other CC pastors do the same. Of course they wouldn't. He may be able to take away the CC name but those pastors would still be faithful to the what the Word says.

If Chuck has such a tight reign over what's taught why does Pilgrimian say in post #10 that

"I have really enjoyed some CC pastors, while disagreeing with others. Raul Ries (CC Golden Springs) does not understand what Dispensationalists believe, and has spoken ill of us before."

If he's right, and I've no reason to doubt him, Reis (one of the more prominent CC pastors) doesn't accept dispensationalism whereas Chuck does.

[Paul]

Listen to the Calvary Chapel messages here;

http://sinnersaint.org/id5.htmlI think you're being misleading here. Those are not Calvary Chapel messages and you know it.

The links on that site are people from the Reformed Theology movement who have issues with CC. It's ironic that these people take issue with CC goers whom they think put too much stock into Chuck Smith when you could easily say the same thing about Reformers and Luther.

If you want to hear Calvary Chapel messages go to Calvary Chapel sites such as:

http://www.calvarychapel.org/index.htm
http://www.thewordfortoday.org/
http://csnradio.com/

[70thWeek]

I think you're being misleading here. Those are not Calvary Chapel messages and you know it.

The links on that site are people from the Reformed Theology movement who have issues with CC. It's ironic that these people take issue with CC goers whom they think put too much stock into Chuck Smith when you could easily say the same thing about Reformers and Luther.

If you want to hear Calvary Chapel messages go to Calvary Chapel sites such as:

http://www.calvarychapel.org/index.htm
http://www.thewordfortoday.org/
http://csnradio.com/

Many Reformed Churches do indeed have problems against Chuck and CC. I could be wrong, but I think that it involves their eschatology as well as Chuck's views on soteriology.

[Paul]

Many Reformed Churches do indeed have problems against Chuck and CC. I could be wrong, but I think that it involves their eschatology as well as Chuck's views on soteriology.I believe that's true as well. Those are important issues which should be examined, especially soteriology, not nonsense about this one or that one being a pope because both sides can play that game and in the end it doesn't accomplish anything.

[70thWeek]

I believe that's true, and those are important issues which should be examined -- especially soteriology.

When I was looking for a church, I stumbled upon a "church locator." At the time, I knew nothing about CC. But, I found the requirements to be listed in this locator. They said that no CCs were allowed because of Smith's statements against Calvinism. Their rule was that the church didn't have to be Calvinist, but couldn't teach against it. As an Arminian, I decided that I probably wouldn't find my church on that site.

[Chris4Christ]

I can, and I do.
Of course you CAN, but that doesn't make it right or proper or even logical to do so.

I can see a cat and say that it's a dog. After all, it has fur like a dog and it likes to sniff around like a dog, and, well, I've decided that I now have the right to redefine "dog" and make it whatever I say it is. But that'll never really make it a dog just because I say so...and it'll only serve to make me look like a fool. :):

[Christine]

hopehome,

Scoring a zero on the credibility factor here. :):

The Pope is proper name coined by the RCC. I won't ask you again to stick to facts here and leave the 2+2=7 out of this. Spouting stuff like that is just a waste of space and bandwidth.

If you have factual issues with CC, please share, but if all you want to do is call Chuck Smith names, then I suggest you find another thread to post on and let the folks that wish to discuss the TOPIC continue.

[70thWeek]

I believe that's true as well. Those are important issues which should be examined, especially soteriology, not nonsense about this one or that one being a pope because both sides can play that game and in the end it doesn't accomplish anything.

Dare we bring up their sacred cow, Calvin?

[Christine]

I have belonged to a few CCs in my moves and not one was Calvinist. While not arminian myself, I can't stomach the Calvinist theology -- and would walk out of a sermon if I heard it.

That is another reason I attend there. They take a biblical approach to it, not one of the man made extremes.

:):

[Christine]

Michele93,

Aineo already spoke to this, but to add -- I am referring to the ordination of practicing homosexuals by those 2 denominations, not your paster in hometown, USA.

I LIKE the fact that this denomination has accountability in their pastors for their doctrines. I LIKE the fact that I can walk into any CC anywhere I may be travelling to and not have to worry about a pastor pushing a homosexual agenda or the fact the abortion is 'just a woman's choice'. Too many denoms out there just take their portion of the $ proceeds and let the church leadership go off on whatever unscriptural tangent that the wind tosses them in (thinking of the Methodists and Episcopalian denoms specifically).

This goes to the accountability that I believe is a good thing to have on doctrinal issues.

[70thWeek]

I have belonged to a few CCs in my moves and not one was Calvinist. While not arminian myself, I can't stomach that theology -- and would walk out of a sermon if I heard it.

That is another reason I attend there. They take a biblical approach to it, not one of the man made extremes.

:):

I am an Arminian.

I would place CC into the Arminian camp. And both Calvinists and Arminians claim to take the Biblical position.

[Mommy2KandM]

We attended a calvary chapel church while living in Vegas and Loved it. Best biblical teaching we ever sat under at church. When we moved to North Carolina we had a very hard time finding a church we could fit into. We were blessed to finally find a small (probably 30 regular attenders) church meeting in a school. It was non denominational, and the only reason we even tried it was because we read that the pastor was taking classes with Calvary bible college. What a blessing to once again find a church home that teaches straight from and through the whole bible week to week. In July we are moving to a new building and our name will be changing to Harvest Chapel. Our church will be officially associated with the Calvary Chapel Church's then. I think that is a very good thing! Lets others looking for a church know exactly what to expect from our non denominational church. Teaching straight from the bible each week. :thumb:

I don't know that calvary chapel considers its self a denomination. But I guess I probably do when I think of them. Though when asked I say we are a Calvary Chapel church which is non denominational. So I guess that covers both bases. :laugh

[B A N E]

Calvinist. While not arminian myself, I can't stomach that theology


Christine,
Correct me if I'm wrong.
But I think you meant:
"While not arminian myself, I can't stomach Calvinism."

The sentence structure looks like you're against arminian.

[blitzkreig]

I have belonged to a few CCs in my moves and not one was Calvinist. While not arminian myself, I can't stomach that theology -- and would walk out of a sermon if I heard it.

That is another reason I attend there. They take a biblical approach to it, not one of the man made extremes.

:):No I think she was right B A N E ...

:B: :wave

[B A N E]

Blitz,
You don't have the history to make that assessment.

[blitzkreig]

Blitz,
You don't have the history to make that assessment.Eau contraire ... I have been down that rocky road :lol

[blitzkreig]

CALVARY CHAPEL DISTINCTIVES The Foundational Principles of the Calvary Chapel Movement by Chuck Smith (http://calvarychapel.com/library/smith-chuck/books/ccd.htm#0p)

[blitzkreig]

CALVINISM, ARMINIANISM & THE WORD OF GOD A CALVARY CHAPEL PERSPECTIVE by Chuck Smith (http://calvarychapel.com/library/smith-chuck/books/caatwog.htm)

[Christine]

Christine,
Correct me if I'm wrong.
But I think you meant:
"While not arminian myself, I can't stomach Calvinism."

The sentence structure looks like you're against arminian. :doh

Edited for clarity. I would say that I am 90% arminian, but don't wish to argue that here as this is off topic for the thread.

Thanks!

[blitzkreig]

:doh

Edited for clarity. I would say that I am 90% arminian, but don't wish to argue that here as this is off topic for the thread.

Thanks!We knew what you meant. :heh

One very good thing you can say about Chuck Smith and his organization is that they give nearly everything away without charge. He has whole libraries posted to the internet.

Oh and he is a very good presenter if you view any of his prophecy tapes series ...

.

[Benja32one]

Eau contraire ... I have been down that rocky road :lol

'Eau' is french for water. "Au contraire" means 'to the contrary'. Once when I lived in Paris, my friend did not have a light for his smoke, and we walked down the street asking for "feu". People were looking at us askance util one guy said, "Oh you want fire for your smoke?" Turns out we had been pronouncing FEU as FOO. !!!!!! We were asking people "Have you crazy?"
:pound :pound :spit

[Hootmon]

We were asking people "Have you crazy?"THey probably figured you had enough of your own already.

[Benja32one]

THey probably figured you had enough of your own already.
:wave :lol
Things were getting too serious around here for a while there.
:wave

[blitzkreig]

'Eau' is french for water. "Au contraire" means 'to the contrary'. Oh Contraire, Monfrair

Eau Contraire: the "perfume of the contrary".

or as one might say as an expression in English ... "toilet water" :B:

:pound

[Benja32one]

Hey ... you are getting it!

Eau Contraire: the "perfume of the contrary".

or as one might say as an expression in English ... "toilet water" :B:

:pound
C'est Ca. BTW...if you really meant the 'jeu de mot' I am not going to criticise you ever again!
:pound :pound :pound

[blitzkreig]

C'est Ca. BTW...if you really meant the 'jeu de mot' I am not going to criticise you ever again!
:pound :pound :poundOK I confess, it was a critical spelling mistake and a valiant attempt at recovery. A swing and a miss ...

No pun:bwa

.

[Benja32one]

OK I confess, it was a critical spelling mistake and a valiant attempt at recovery. A swing and a miss ...

No pun:bwa

.
:wave
(C'est rien, mon frere!) Seriously, I have something I want you to pray about with me, if you would. I have been asked to go to Ukraine in the fall to preach. The local SBC church is sending a group over. Got to pay my own way, but it is a fleece I have put out, you know?
:thumb

[blitzkreig]

:wave
(C'est rien, mon frere!) Seriously, I have something I want you to pray about with me, if you would. I have been asked to go to Ukraine in the fall to preach. The local SBC church is sending a group over. Got to pay my own way, but it is a fleece I have put out, you know?
:thumbSure. The Lord willing I hope your plans go work out favourable.

I know of a fellow who pastor's over there in the Ukraine. His sister was a friend of my wife's back years ago in University.

He used to do 6 months here and then 6 month's there. But he married a gal from over there so I'm not sure if he isn't just planted over there now ... I'm not even sure with whom he is affiliated.

His name is David Cenaiko ... and yes he can speak "Varenyky" :B: Unfortunately I only eat the stuff ... ;):

He sent us some literature a while back but I can't find it just now, so if I run into it I will post you his address.

Where he goes they are as poor as Church-mice over there. If I recall a part of this guy's work was training some of the poorest folks rather elementary hygiene like getting them to the dentist etc. I'm sure it must be pretty good in the cities.

Keep us in mind when you are raising Hryvnia.


.

[B A N E]

:focus


Is Calvary Chapel........
Is Calvary Chapel a denomination. Yes, I know they started out as a single Nondenom church. Now they are a large group of churches, They have a central governing body, a doctrine, a statement of faith, a philosophy of ministry etc. THe nice website http://www.calvarychapel.org/ didn't answer my question. To my way of thinking they have grown into a denomination. :confused

[Benja32one]

Sure. The Lord willing I hope your plans go work out favourable.

I know of a fellow who pastor's over there in the Ukraine. His sister was a friend of my wife's back years ago in University.

He used to do 6 months here and then 6 month's there. But he married a gal from over there so I'm not sure if he isn't just planted over there now ... I'm not even sure with whom he is affiliated.

His name is David Cenaiko ... and yes he can speak "Varenyky" :B: Unfortunately I only eat the stuff ... ;):

He sent us some literature a while back but I can't find it just now, so if I run into it I will post you his address.

Where he goes they are as poor as Church-mice over there. If I recall a part of this guy's work was training some of the poorest folks rather elementary hygiene like getting them to the dentist etc. I'm sure it must be pretty good in the cities.

Keep us in mind when you are raising Hryvnia.


.
:wave
Right now, the trip is just in the planning stages, passports to be gotten, visas, shots. It would be three weeks in November. I do not know if I can go because of my dad in nursing home and 89 yr old mom to see to. Not to mention my own carrying of medications that I cannot be without overseas.
The Lord is gracious and able to meet any need, I know, but sometimes
common sense is what He provides, you know?
:nod

[architectlink]

Most of these mega churches are non-denominational. People are not going to these churches because of a denomination. They are going to hear about CHRIST. It is not the pastors, as the author would have you believe.

Big Box Worship
Florida’s biggest church is a $40-million-a-year, 550-employee enterprise — one of 80 megachurches in the state that are succeeding at mass-marketing faith.
By Mike Vogel

http://www.floridatrend.com/issue/default.asp?a=5681&s=1

CHARISMA: Under Calvary Chapel pastor Bob Coy, the church has grown from its original gathering of seven to about 18,000 who attend each weekend. Coy’s sermons are projected on a big-screen television during services, broadcast on radio and television, and podcasted over the internet.

Everything at Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale on Cypress Creek Road bespeaks a high-volume enterprise. Island-themed trams shuttle worshipers from the parking lot hinterlands of the 75-acre church campus to the sanctuary lobby door. The sanctuary itself seats 3,800; a gymnasium can hold another 600 of overflow. On an average weekend, 18,000 adults and children throng four services. It is the largest church crowd in Florida and one of the largest 10 in the nation. The church has a $40-million annual budget and employs 550 people.

Megacongregations
Some of Florida’s other large churches:

Without Walls International Church
Tampa, Lakeland

Non-denominational

Average weekend attendance: 15,000

Followers: 40% African-American, 30% white, 20% Hispanic, 10% other

Budget: $50 million

Leadership: Founded in 1991 by Bishop Randy White, 47, with his wife, senior pastor Paula, 39, known nationally for her televised Paula White Ministries, which launched in 2002; broadcasts to “two-thirds of the world.”

The Church: An old Canada Dry building seats about 4,200. The Lakeland facility, seating up to 12,000, formerly was owned by the Carpenters Home megachurch, which shrank amid split and scandal. Not all megachurches stay megachurches.



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Christ Fellowship
Palm Beach Gardens, Wellington, West Palm Beach
Non-denominational

Average weekend attendance: 10,200

Followers: Primarily white but with “a solid black and Hispanic representation,” the church reports.

Budget: $16.2 million

Leadership: Senior pastor Tom Mullins, 60

The Church: Founded in 1984. Attendance doubled in one week in 2000 when the church moved to its largest sanctuary, 1,750 seats in Palm Beach Gardens. A smaller campus in West Palm Beach holds services at the CityPlace retail-condo complex. The church wants to add one campus in the region per year. Dozens of ministries, including a therapeutic horseback riding program for disabled children and teens.



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First Baptist Church
Orlando
Southern Baptist

Average weekend attendance: 6,500

Followers: Predominantly white but increasingly multiethnic with Spanish and Portugese translations beginning in January.

Budget: $12.85 million

Leadership: Senior pastor Jim Henry, 68, under whom the most growth occurred, retires March 31 from the 134-year-old church. Co-pastor David Uth, from Louisiana, will become senior pastor. Transitions are a critical issue in megachurch sustainability. Assistant pastor Steve Smith says the co-pastor transition may set a model for large churches with longtime leaders.

The Church: Growth leveled in the late 1990s then jumped to 6,500 after adding a contemporary service. The church leads all 45,000 Southern Baptist churches globally in giving to the convention’s cooperative program to fund mission efforts. It gave just over $1 million last year from its budget with another $755,000 from church members.

FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH, Orlando

Coral Ridge Presbyterian
Fort Lauderdale

Presbyterian

Average weekend attendance: 5,500

Followers: Predominantly white, skewed toward middle age and older

Budget: $10 million

Leadership: Senior minister D. James Kennedy, 75, took the church from 45 people in 1959 to its current size, almost 10,000. He is well-known via radio and TV broadcasts worldwide.

The Church: 137 ministries, including cancer support, home schooling and prison outreach. Youth groups enroll 450 children.



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FaithWorld
Maitland
Non-denominational

Average weekend attendance: 5,000

Followers: 60% African-American, 20% Hispanic, 20% white

Budget: $6 million

Leadership: Senior pastor, songwriter Clint Brown, 42. His high-energy music and service are the church’s trademark.

The Church: The facility was taken over from televangelist Benny Hinn when Hinn moved to Dallas. Brown got some unwanted attention when papers filed in his divorce indicated he lived in a $1-million house and had seven cars. Those papers said Brown had a $142,432 salary but earned double that from music sales, the Orlando Sentinel reported. Pastor Terry Baum says the church has rallied around Brown and is on a growth tear.



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Idlewild Baptist Church
Lutz
Southern Baptist

Average weekend attendance: 5,000

Followers: Predominantly white

Budget: $11 million

Leadership: Senior pastor Ken Whitten, 51, has been pastor for 16 years, taking over a 1,000-member congregation

The Church: Founded in 1934, Idlewild expects to grow 20% to 30% this year as it moves into a new, 5,400-seat auditorium. Planning a two-story education building, fellowship hall and a family life center with a fitness center and gym. Extensive land holdings — 143 acres.



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Note: Sociologists define megachurches as non-Catholic churches with at least 2,000 in average weekend attendance. Some churches have larger memberships than the average weekend attendance figures printed here because not all members attend weekly. Average weekend attendance is considered the superior indicator for church management because it gives a more accurate picture of facilities and capacity needs. First Baptist Church and Celebration churches in Jacksonville and Northland in Longwood usually appear in listings of the bigger megachurches in Florida. None of the three was responsive in a timely manner to our requests for information the other churches here provided.
Source: The churches

[kwdozier]

I currently attend Calvay Chapel in Kernersville, NC and I can tell you I am being fed the Word of God lik eI have never been fed before.

I don't know that I would consider them a denomination. They do have a board and they do have a hierarchy of sorts, but their is a reason for this. Let me try to explain

Calvary Chapels are very picky about who they allow to teach and preach in their churches. This is a really good thing in that they test everything against the Word of God. Calvary Chapel has an interesting way of setting up new churches. Basicly the way I have been explained things is this. If someone feels that they are meant to Teach the Word of God and they want to be associated with Calvary Chappel, they must first go before the board. The board then decides if this persons beliefs fall in line with theirs. If so, what happens is the person is sent away with the full support of the Board, HOWEVER ther is no money support there. This is wher it gets interesting. They have the person choose a place, usually a home town or someplace that is touching that persons heart, that person basicly starts a home bible study...(NO SALARY). That home bible study will do one of a few things. Either God will bless it and it will grow, or that person realizes that maybe they are not meant to do this work but some other service for the LORD. If the bible study grows, the Pastor is still not receiving a salary. Our Pastor taught and preached for over 1 1/2 years before he took a salary and at that point he was forced to by the board because the congregation had grown so and he truly deserved to be paid.

This is what this does. Alot of people do not realize it but the national average now of how long a pasture will stay with a church is 5 to 10 years(and this is on the high side). and the top reason pastors move on is based on money. This is not the situation with Calvary Chapel pastors. Calvary Chapel pastors are VERY dedicated to their congregation. You will find that most Calvary Chapel pastors have been with the same congregation since it's conseption. They simply ar enot motivated by money but by spreaduing the Word of God. Case in point, we just hired an assistant pasture from Florida who is an awsome brother in Christ, and he took a cut in pay by half form his Calvary Chappel in Florida. The reason he moved on was to be closer to family, but can you imagine taking a pay cut of half.

You will find that Calvary Chappel Pastors truly love the Lord and truly want others to encounter Christ. They are not motivated by money, but by furthering the Kingdom.

I hope I have given a good representation of what I have come to know as Calvary Chapel. But you know, the Bible says we are test all things against scripture, so let me incourage you to do this. Our website is www.reachthetriad.com . Go here and go to the media section and download a few of the online teachings. He teaches verse by verse through the Bible and you will truly be filled.


Thanks for listening to my rambling but I have come to love our Calvary Chapel.

God Bless you all.

Wayne

[biblemommy]

I didn't say Chuck Smith was a Roman Catholic Pope, I said he was a CC Pope. Listing a string of adjatives explaing the Roman Pope proves nothing. Chuck is the sole leader of the CC and that doesn't need to be proven it's simply a fact. I don't think he's an evil man per 'se, but he is wrong on church governent.

I was part of a church that sought to join the CC, they were refused because we had two pastors. They told us that "Chuck doesn't approve of the two pastor model, if one of you steps down he will approve your membership." This didn't bother most of our members but it shocked me and sent me looking for more info on Mr. Smith.

Well that would explain your distaste for CC.
its been my experience that those putting CC down are angry because they were held accountable and found wanting.

I happened to be apart of a CC as it was growing, CC Ft laud started very very small, and has become yes what most would call a mega church, last christmas eve they did a service in a stadium that holds thousands, I don't know exactly but its huge. Pastor Bob Coy is one of the most humbled men I have ever been lucky enough to glean from, Chuck Smith is also amazing, BUT not one of them wants to be considered any other than a servant To The Lord.
But when God calls you to serve He also requires accountablity in larger amounts. I wouldn't want to be responsible for so many learning Gods word because that would mean I was responsible for any error. So yes there is a huge level of accountablity within CC's but only because there is a HUGE amount coming to Christ through its teachings. We are also called to be holy set apart from the world, so if CC has the resources to provide a school(s) a cafe, a bookstore, a video library ect than Praise The Lord, what a huge blessing.
To say ill of any of the men or women willing to step up and teach Gods word serves no purpose other than division.

I have lived in several states and had the chance to visit MANY calvary's and I agree with Christine its so nice to know that where ever you may land you can find solid teaching within CC. I have experienced a few cc that didn't stay CC's because they didn't adhere to the doctrinal teachings and the reason the church is so sucessful is because they teach the bible literally. Plain and simple, no ritualistic pratices no fancy offering preformance
Just heartfelt worship and teaching striaght from the bible chapter
by chapter verse by verse.Is that a denomination?
I remember Pastor Bob joking one time that if we had to 'label' in a denomination, we would be bapticostal !!
A mix of all thats solid
t:tape his is just my humble opinion, Calvary Chapel aside, what does denominations do anyway? it devides the church. It creates conflict within itself. If we are to be the body, what happens to a body all devided up? the right hand is catholic, the left presby ect ect each demon thinks they have just a smidge more of the truth than the other and no one can agree on anything. Its the same idea with some churches that encourage talking in tounges during service, while I trully believe there is a time for it, how can it be while a pastor is teaching?The Holy Spirit would not interupt itself and cause distraction from worshipping God. As with the differnt denoms, what benifit is there when the attention is on the denomination itself rather than worshipping God?
I grew up in a USA presby, and I didn't have a clue what a personal relationship with Christ meant till I went to calvary., I was even saved in a pentacostal, and missed the message.
Anyway, does it matter if cc is so big they seem to be a denom? to me thats just looking for a reason to have conflict.
If you like the way your learn and glean from a CC then Praise God, if you don't move on till you do find where your comfortable.
If CC wasn't teaching the WORD CORRECTLY they wouldn't be growing, REMEMBER God adds to those being saved daily. If God isn't the cornerstone then the building falls...

[biblemommy]

[QUOTE=kwdozier]I currently attend Calvay Chapel in Kernersville, NC and I can tell you I am being fed the Word of God lik eI have never been fed before.

NO WAY !!!!!
Thats the one I have been going to off and on for a while now!
:faint

[Crispie]

I also attend a CC in WI. I have never known a church that so thoroughly taught the whole counsel of God. I have also never known a church that thru their teaching verse by verse, providing all the meat for the parishoners, end up with such a blest bunch of parishoners. They actually LIVE their faith. They actually read their Bibles. They actually bring their Bibles to church, and study them in church. And they praise God there,too. Praise and worship that works.

It seems they are so blest because they stick to God's Word. And they aren't afraid to use the WHOLE Bible, not just the parts that please their human nature. The scriptures are an absolute in a relativistic world, and our CC believes THAT. And I praise and thank God every day for leading me to a church that uses His Word, nothing else, and is so blest because of it.

And I guess it takes at least one person to begin a new church. Chuck may have started it, but it wasn't HIS WORDS that were taught, and still aren't Chuck's words, they're God's. And I thank God for His Word and for teachers that still stick to His Word. ALL glory to God. --Crispie

[Crispie]

Oops! And I TOTALLY Agree with Bible Mommy that the Pastors/Leaders are the MOST HUMBLE leaders I have EVER KNOWN!! They serve SO willingly, and work unselfishly in a REAL-I LIVE LIKE THIS NORMALLY- kind of way. And I TRULY believe it is b/c they teach ALL of the Bible, ALL of the time. They LOVE their LORD, and they are NEVER ashamed to admit that and share it in a loving way. It is an AMAZING place that is being blessed b/c it IS using God's Word--all of it, all the time. I invite you all to check one out sometime, be Berean, before you make up your mind either way. God bless--Crispie

[biblemommy]

Oops! And I TOTALLY Agree with Bible Mommy that the Pastors/Leaders are the MOST HUMBLE leaders I have EVER KNOWN!! They serve SO willingly, and work unselfishly in a REAL-I LIVE LIKE THIS NORMALLY- kind of way. And I TRULY believe it is b/c they teach ALL of the Bible, ALL of the time. They LOVE their LORD, and they are NEVER ashamed to admit that and share it in a loving way. It is an AMAZING place that is being blessed b/c it IS using God's Word--all of it, all the time. I invite you all to check one out sometime, be Berean, before you make up your mind either way. God bless--Crispie


And to add to that, what was said earlier, these guys don't just jump into leadership with a big salary, all of them start the ministry small and have full time jobs doing other things, AND if you think its an easy desion to wake up one day and say hey I wanna start a Calvary, be ready for the onslught of onslughts there familes become attacked daily, if they have kid, teens esp satan works over time to tear apart the whole family, he knows another CC is bad news for him.
My sister is in senminary, and from what I can see its all about book learning, and while thats good, life is a lesson no one can take away, I heard once somehwhere that, when yuo don't know what to say about yuor faith, share your testimony, nobody can tell yuo what you experienced is wrong!!
imagine all christians as lights, some are tiny little twinkle lights all pretty,
others are huge search lights. Those who are little lights can make a bright glow when they all come together, but all apart you can bearly notice them, then you have big huge search lights, those out there looking in the darkest areas for the lost, they don't need a little light to help be seen.
To me I see the folks that go to CC's have those big search lights, because thats what they are challenged to do, you don't go to a CC service, hear a few bible verses, made all pretty to fit in your life and go home feeling like you saved a turtle from being run over, like your good deed for the day is done, no when you leave a CC, you have your search and resque gear on and your ready for what ever or who ever God places in your path....
In a very dark world, Calvary Chapels and the humbled men serveing there, are great blessings and I am beyond thankful I have found a place to learn safely, trully, completly and humbled that God seems to keep placing them in the areas I move to. I can even log on to my computer and worship and learn from anywhere! ! All the Glory goes toGod, Not Calvary
PRAISE GOD... If God didn't like what was going on he'd shut it down....

[Selah]

I was part of a church that sought to join the CC, they were refused because we had two pastors. They told us that "Chuck doesn't approve of the two pastor model, if one of you steps down he will approve your membership." This didn't bother most of our members but it shocked me and sent me looking for more info on Mr. Smith.

Two head pastors...?

Common sense would tell me why Chuck would refuse this--there is no way that two people can agree on everything (Amos 3:3), and it is because CC's are autonomous in their functions, that only one can truly lead each church. It's not just an office function they are filling there--they truly lead that church as most CC pastors are head of that flock for life.

CC's believe that God will give each head pastor the vision to run that church. But every established CC has associate and supporting pastoral staff, because they all know they can't run the church on their own; it takes a team.

If that isn't "Pope like" I don't know what is. He answers to no one. Only he decides what is sound biblical teaching for CC churches, no one else.

Pastor Smith most certainly does remain accountable. There is no such thing as a CC-affiliated church where the pastor is not part of some sort of pastoral accountability support team. These pastors have accountability teams within their church (with the other leaders in that local church) and without (with other CC head pastors). They are accountable to each other as leaders of these churches, and they admonish and encourage each other as needed, no doubt similar in fashion to the Church in the days of Acts. They often will not speak about it at their "pulpits" (why would they?), but it is there just the same.

Without a doubt, Chuck Smith has others who hold him accountable in his thoughts, words, and actions.

I speak of this with some experience, as DH is leaderhip in our CC, and if it is God's will, is on a path to one day hold a pastoral position there.

P.S. Also, just to clarify, the approval of CC churches is not all conducted by one person. Regionally, a team of people in pastoral leadership positions is brought together, and each person is responsible for the review and approval/disapproval of one section of each CC-affiliation application. There is no one person that makes the whole decision.

P.P.S. From an earlier post, if your church leadership style doesn't fit in with CC--why would you want to be a CC? And when your application is rejected, why would you be upset about it??!! The visions for each of those churches don't line up, but guess what--we need different types of churches to suit the styles of different types of people! Not all churches should fit into the same mold. :):

[Rebecki]

When we left our Purpose-Driven Seeker-Sensitive PC church we headed straight for the local Calvary Chapel. Immediately we were fed the Word of God. It was not as close to our home as our previous church, so we began to look around for something closer to home.

We wandered for about a year and just recently came back to the Calvary Chapel because we felt it was exactly where God wanted us. The worship is contemporary and certainly focuses on Jesus, and the teaching is strong and straight from the bible. Hardly any personal antidotes, success stories, etc. ZERO dramas, skits, etc. It's wonderful!

[Enlightenment]

I remember Pastor Bob joking one time that if we had to 'label' in a denomination, we would be bapticostal !!

Its the same idea with some churches that encourage talking in tounges during service, while I trully believe there is a time for it, how can it be while a pastor is teaching?The Holy Spirit would not interupt itself and cause distraction from worshipping God. As with the differnt denoms, what benifit is there when the attention is on the denomination itself rather than worshipping God?


So do people in Calvary Chapel churches speak in tongues? Or, what is the CC position on speaking in tongues?

Also, is it the practice of CC churches to go through the Bible verse-by-verse in sequence, Sunday by Sunday? Or, perhaps go through books of the Bible in sequence?

[Rebecki]

So do people in Calvary Chapel churches speak in tongues? Or, what is the CC position on speaking in tongues?

Also, is it the practice of CC churches to go through the Bible verse-by-verse in sequence, Sunday by Sunday? Or, perhaps go through books of the Bible in sequence?

Calvary Chapels believe that all the gifts of the Spirit are alive and active today, however since speaking in tongues is controlable, they ask that the service be dedicated soley to the preaching of the Word. Hopefuly someone else can explain that better than me????

My Calvary Chapel teaches the Word book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse, in sequence, Sunday to Sunday, with Wednesday being a deeper study on the previous Sunday's teachings. I can't ever remember hearing a topical sermon, except from someone who was a guest at the pulpit.

[Selah]

Calvary Chapels believe that all the gifts of the Spirit are alive and active today, however since speaking in tongues is controlable, they ask that the service be dedicated soley to the preaching of the Word. Hopefuly someone else can explain that better than me????


You are correct.

They do allow for tongues in very specific situations. They allow them during a service called an Afterglow. It is up to each CC as to when or if they want to conduct such services. Some conduct Afterglows weekly (outside of regular service times, of course), some only hold Afterglows during retreats, and some might not have Afterglow services at all, or only periodically.

When they do have an Afterglow, the use of tongues must follow biblical guidelines. It must be used by only one person at a time, it must be followed by an interpretation from another individual, and if leadership present hears anything contrary to the Word of God, they will immediately denounce what was said and point to the truth in Scripture.

If anybody (from a more charismatic background) were to stand up in the middle of a service and attempt to speak in tongues, the ushers would escort them out of the service immediately. They have no issues with handling matters and moving on.

I've always appreciated that they don't tolerate people standing up and using tongues in the middle of a service; I would not appreciate having to explain what happened to any unsaved family or friends that I might have brought along. :):

P.S. Oh, and just to clarify since I have heard this nonsense over and over again in the past, CC's do not believe that all believers must use tongues, and that is evidence that you have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I have heard people accuse CC's of that before and it is absolutely not true; they are attempting to lump CC's in with charismatic churches when they say that, and we just do not believe that.

CC's do believe that it is a evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but not the evidence. As further evidence of this, most of those I know who attend a CC have never spoken in tongues, including myself. :): :B:

We also consider belief in the baptism of the Holy Spirit to be a secondary issue, so you do not have to believe in that in order to consider CC to be a church home. :):

[kwdozier]

[QUOTE=kwdozier]I currently attend Calvay Chapel in Kernersville, NC and I can tell you I am being fed the Word of God lik eI have never been fed before.

NO WAY !!!!!
Thats the one I have been going to off and on for a while now!
:faint

YES WAY :wave

I have been going there since January. It really is an awsome church. Were you there this past sunday. He had an awsome vidio he played that describes Christ, check it out at www.gborocollege.edu/~wdozier/thatsmyking.mpg Just right click on it and save target as.

By the way, nice to meet you biblemommy!!!:wave

[biblemommy]

[QUOTE=biblemommy]

YES WAY :wave

I have been going there since January. It really is an awsome church. Were you there this past sunday. He had an awsome vidio he played that describes Christ, check it out at www.gborocollege.edu/~wdozier/thatsmyking.mpg Just right click on it and save target as.

By the way, nice to meet you biblemommy!!!:wave


Nope didn't get to church this week, its actually been a while, when we first moved here to NC in 2000 CC wasn't here,back then God had lead us to a wonderful Southern Baptist church. I think it was about two years ago when we found CC or the triad, they were still a small group meeting over behind the moose lodge, the building there in now is amazing thats for sure. Pastor Dave is great, love his teaching. I have to admitt, my hubby is a pro chef and doesn't get many sundays off so we usually only make to CC when hes off, the rest of the time I am lucky if I get all 3 kids dressed and to the baptist church on time!! I do miss cc, I miss the solid teaching, not to say the SB church isn't, I just love the worship and no nonsense teaching from pastor dave, interestingly enough I just found out about pastor gennerino coming here from ft laud...pretty cool.
I asked my hubby last night if he would try to get a sunday off soon so we can back over there, I do however watch pastor dave on local cable so I think I am pretty well kept up!!
we'll all have to have coffee when hubby gets a sunday!!!
peace
B

[architectlink]

How can you be a denomination if you don't have a membership list?

How can you be a denomination if you don't have help from any other churches to build a new church?

How can you be a denomination if your pastor is on his own basically from the get-go?

[architectlink]

So do people in Calvary Chapel churches speak in tongues? Or, what is the CC position on speaking in tongues?


The Holy Spirit doesn't need to interupt HIMSELF when the word is being taught correctly.