A REALLY DUMB Question

[Rosebudlr]

I am sorry if this sounds really stupid but I have no clue as to its meaning so I am going to be brave and ask my question here. No laughing PLEASE?

When Jesus was crucified, the Roman soldier pierced his side to confirm his death. Blood AND WATER poured out.

Explain the water part please?

Thankyou
Leigh

[LDinthewoods]

I got this out of another, very lengthy, description of Christ's death on the cross. Let me know if you want the whole thing. Here is the answer to your question:

Even before Jesus died, the HYPOVOLEMIC shock (as described
earlier) would have caused a sustained rapid heart beat,
which would also cause clear FLUID to collect around the
MEMBRANE around His HEART... also known as
PLEURAL EFFUSION! This same CLEAR FLUID would also be
building around his LUNGS too!

When the solider pierced Him.. no wonder BOTH water and
blood was seen.

[rtd2]

I am sorry if this sounds really stupid but I have no clue as to its meaning so I am going to be brave and ask my question here. No laughing PLEASE?

When Jesus was crucified, the Roman soldier pierced his side to confirm his death. Blood AND WATER poured out.

Explain the water part please? Thankyou
Leigh






I believe The medical field would expalin these fluids are evidence of a "BURSTED HEART"!...I along with many others feel a better term would be a "BROKEN HEART"! :cry

[LDinthewoods]

Yeah, probably could ask MedicDave or Medic911 what they think.

[dman]

this to Could be it From the Word :)

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Christ also describe him self as the fountian of Living water...

Joh 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

I believe The medical field would expalin these fluids are evidence of a "BURSTED HEART"!...I along with many others feel a better term would be a "BROKEN HEART"!

Christ also Described him self as the physician.

Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

[PlentyGroovy]

The piercing of Jesus and the water and blood is so symbolic.

When Jesus healed victims of leprosy, it was a MAJOR hint to the priests due to the healing ritual they were to perform to announce someone healed from leprosy. The OT also relates leprosy to sin. It was a major hint because leprosy is incurable and the priests never used this ceremony prior to Jesus because no one had ever been cured. Check out the bolded words...very symbolic to the cruxifiction.

Lev 14:1 And Jehovah spoke to Moses, saying,
Lev 14:2 This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing. He shall be brought to the priest.
Lev 14:3 And the priest shall go forth out of the camp. And the priest shall look, and behold, if the plague of leprosy is healed in the leper,
Lev 14:4 then the priest shall command to take two clean live birds for him that is to be cleansed, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop.
Lev 14:5 And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water.
Lev 14:6 He shall take the living bird, and the cedar wood and the scarlet and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the slain bird, over the running water. Lev 14:7 And he shall sprinkle on him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.


Lev 14:50 And he shall kill one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water.
Lev 14:51 And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet dye, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times.
Lev 14:52 And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet.
Lev 14:53 But he shall let the living bird go out of the city into the open field, and make an atonement for the house. And it shall be clean. Lev 14:54 This is the law for all kinds of plague of leprosy and scab,
Lev 14:55 and for the leprosy of a garment and of a house,
Lev 14:56 and for a rising and for a scab and for a bright spot,
Lev 14:57 to teach when it is unclean and when it is clean. This is the law of leprosy.

The bird (representing the soul) is sprinkled with water and blood is set free.

[BigDave]

IIRC, The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel explains this and other parts of the medical side of our Lord's crucifiction ...

From my recollection (I read the book five years ago), what LDinthewoods said is essentially correct. The clear liquid buildup was a result of the damage from the lashing and when His side was pierced, it came out along with blood.

[valerie]

It is important to understand from the beginning that Jesus would have been in excellent physical condition. As a carpenter by trade, He participated in physical labor. In addition, He spent much of His ministry traveling on foot across the countryside. His stamina and strength were, most likely, very well developed. With that in mind, it is clear just how much He suffered: If this torture could break a man in such good shape, it must have been a horrific experience.



After the Passover celebration, Jesus takes His disciples to Gethsemene to pray. During His anxious prayer about the events to come, Jesus sweats drops of blood. There is a rare medical condition called hemohedrosis, during which the capillary blood vessels that feed the sweat glands break down. Blood released from the vessels mixes with the sweat; therefore, the body sweats drops of blood. This condition results from mental anguish or high anxiety, a state Jesus expresses by praying “my soul is deeply grieved to the point of death” (Matthew 26:38). Hemohedrosis makes the skin tender, so Jesus’ physical condition worsens slightly.



Traveling from Pilate to Herod and back again, Jesus walks approximately two and a half miles. He has not slept, and He has been mocked and beaten (Luke 22:63-65). In addition, His skin remains tender from the hemohedrosis. His physical condition worsens.



Pilate orders Jesus to be flogged as required by Roman law before crucifixion Traditionally, the accused stood naked, and the flogging covered the area from the shoulders down to the upper legs. The whip consisted of several strips of leather. In the middle of the strips were metal balls that hit the skin, causing deep bruising. In addition, sheep bone was attached to the tips of each strip.

When the bone makes contact with Jesus’ skin, it digs into His muscles, tearing out chunks of flesh and exposing the bone beneath. The flogging leaves the skin on Jesus’ back in long ribbons. By this point, He has lost a great volume of blood which causes His blood pressure to fall and puts Him into shock. The human body attempts to remedy imbalances such as decreased blood volume, so Jesus’ thirst is His body’s natural response to His suffering (John 19:28). If He would have drank water, His blood volume would have increased.

Roman soldiers place a crown of thorns on Jesus’ head and a robe on His back (Matthew 27:28-29). The robe helps the blood clot (similar to putting a piece of tissue on a cut from shaving) to prevent Jesus from sustaining more blood loss. As they hit Jesus in the head (Matthew 27:30), the thorns from the crown push into the skin and He begins bleeding profusely. The thorns also cause damage to the nerve that supplies the face, causing intense pain down His face and neck. As they mock Him, the soldiers also belittle Jesus by spitting on Him (Matthew 27:30). They rip the robe off Jesus’ back and the bleeding starts afresh.

Jesus’ physical condition becomes critical. Due to severe blood loss without replacement, Jesus is undoubtedly in shock. As such, He is unable to carry the cross and Simon of Cyrene executes this task (Matthew 27:32).



Crucifixion was invented by the Persians between 300-400 B.C. It is quite possibly the most painful death ever invented by humankind. The English language derives the word “excruciating” from crucifixion, acknowledging it as a form of slow, painful suffering.1 Its punishment was reserved for slaves, foreigners, revolutionaries, and the vilest of criminals. Victims were nailed to a cross; however, Jesus’ cross was probably not the Latin cross (?), but rather a Tau cross (T). The vertical piece (the stipes) remains in the ground permanently. The accused carries only the horizontal piece (the patibulum) up the hill. Atop the patibulum lies a sign (the titulus), indicating that a formal trial occurred for a violation of the law. In Jesus’ case, this reads “This is the King of the Jews” (Luke 23:38).

The accused needed to be nailed to the patibulum while lying down, so Jesus is thrown to the ground, reopening His wounds, grinding in dirt, and causing bleeding. They nail His “hands” to the patibulum. The Greek meaning of “hands” includes the wrist. It is more likely that the nails went through Jesus’ wrists. If the nails were driven into the hand, the weight of the arms would cause the nail to rip through the soft flesh.


Therefore, the upper body would not be held to the cross. If placed in the wrist, the bones in the lower portion of the hand support the weight of the arms and the body remains nailed to the cross. The huge nail (seven to nine inches long)2 damages or severs the major nerve to the hand (the median nerve) upon impact. This causes continuous agonizing pain up both of Jesus’ arms.

Once the victim is secured, the guards lift the patibulum and place it on the stipes already in the ground. As it is lifted, Jesus’ full weight pulls down on His nailed wrists and His shoulders and elbows dislocate (Psalm 22:14).3 In this position, Jesus’ arms stretch to a minimum of six inches longer than their original length.

It is highly likely that Jesus’ feet were nailed through the tops as often pictured. In this position (with the knees flexed at approximately 90 degrees),4 the weight of the body pushes down on the nails and the ankles support the weight. The nails would not rip through the soft tissue as would have occurred with the hands. Again, the nail would cause severe nerve damage (it severs the dorsal pedal artery of the foot) and acute pain.

Normally, to breathe in, the diaphragm (the large muscle that separates the chest cavity from the abdominal cavity) must move down. This enlarges the chest cavity and air automatically moves into the lungs (inhalation). To exhale, the diaphragm rises up, which compresses the air in the lungs and forces the air out (exhalation). As Jesus hangs on the cross, the weight of His body pulls down on the diaphragm and the air moves into His lungs and remains there. Jesus must push up on His nailed feet (causing more pain) to exhale.

In order to speak, air must pass over the vocal cords during exhalation. The Gospels note that Jesus spoke seven times from the cross. It is amazing that despite His pain, He pushes up to say “Forgive them” (Luke 23:34).

The difficulty surrounding exhalation leads to a slow form of suffocation. Carbon dioxide builds up in the blood, resulting in a high level of carbonic acid in the blood. The body responds instinctively, triggering the desire to breathe. At the same time, the heart beats faster to circulate available oxygen. The decreased oxygen (due to the difficulty in exhaling) causes damage to the tissues and the capillaries begin leaking watery fluid from the blood into the tissues. This results in a build-up of fluid around the heart (pericardial effusion) and lungs (pleural effusion). The collapsing lungs, failing heart, dehydration, and the inability to get sufficient oxygen to the tissues essentially suffocate the victim.5 The decreased oxygen also damages the heart itself (myocardial infarction) which leads to cardiac arrest. In severe cases of cardiac stress, the heart can even burst, a process known as cardiac rupture.6 Jesus most likely died of a heart attack.

After Jesus’ death, the soldiers break the legs of the two criminals crucified alongside Him (John 19:32), causing suffocation. Death would then occur quicker. When they came to Jesus, He was already dead so they did not break His legs (John 19:33). Instead, the soldiers pierced His side (John 19:34) to assure that He was dead. In doing this, it is reported that “blood and water came out” (John 19:34), referring to the watery fluid surrounding the heart and lungs.






While these unpleasant facts depict a brutal murder, the depth of Christ’s pain emphasizes the true extent of God’s love for His creation. Teaching the physiology of Christ’s crucifixion is a constant reminder of the magnificent demonstration of God’s love for humanity that was expressed that day in Calvary. This lesson enables me to participate in communion, the remembrance of His sacrifice, with a grateful heart. I am struck every time with the stunning realization that as a flesh and blood human, Jesus felt every ounce of this execution. What greater love than this can a man have for his friends?

Cahleen Shrier, Ph.D., is an associate professor in the Department of Biology and Chemistry.

Tally (French ’00) Flint, is editor in the Office of University Marketing and Creative Media.





1Behold, the Man. Produced and directed by Alex Metherell and Hugh Ross. 60 min. Trinity Broadcasting Network, 2000. Videocassette.
2Ibid.
3Ibid.
4Eastman, Mark. “Agony of Love: A physician’s look at the crucifixion.” From a link on Mars Hill homepage [Internet website] - [cited 14 February 2002]. Available at www.marshill.org/agony.htm.
5Ibid.
6Ibid.

General Resources:
Davis, C. Truman. “The Crucifixion of Jesus.” Arizona Medicine, 22, no. 3 (1965): 183-187.

Edwards, William D., et. Al. “On the Physical Death of Jesus Christ.” The Journal of the American Medical Association 255, no.11 (1986): 1455-1463.

[antsinmypants]

When Jesus was crucified, the Roman soldier pierced his side to confirm his death. Blood AND WATER poured out.


EASY:
It has to do with the feast of Tabernacles and the miracle of the water and wine libation.

Remember the "If any man is thirsty, come unto me" that Y'shua shouted in the Temple?

This is a miracle that is a FUFILLMENT (Filling it up full of meaning- not abolishing) the miracle of the Temple that pointed to Messiah.

www.biblicalholidays.com has some info on it (I could post more, but for the sake of brevity..)

[antsinmypants]

Water was also an important part of the Feast of Tabernacles. Before the festival, the Rabbis taught on every passage in Scripture dealing with water. In Old Testament Biblical times, gold pitchers of water were brought from the pool of Siloam to the temple. The Priest would pour out the water over the altar to signify Israel’s gratitude for the rain that had produced the harvest, and would pray for rain in the next year. The priest would recite Isaiah 12:1-3. And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me. Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation. Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. This special libation was performed only during the seven days of the Feast of Tabernacles. This was done not only to remind God of the need for abundant rain during the winter season, but also to remind the people of the coming Messiah who had promised to pour out His Holy Spirit on the people.

This ceremony lasted seven days. The last day was called Hosha’na Rabba, meaning the Day of the Great Hosanna. As the celebration continued, the priests blew the trumpets and waved the branches and the people sang the Great Hallel
(Psalms 113 through 118).
http://biblicalholidays.com/Tabernacles/bible_times1.htm


Important note : Salvation in Hebrew is the name of Messiah -Y'shua.

On the last day and greatest day of the Feast of Tabernacles (the day the Rabbis poured the water) Jesus stood (calling special attention to his message) and proclaimed Himself the very fountain of living water in John 7:37-38.

Jesus Washes Away Our Sins

Jesus is the true living water cleansing us from sin through His blood. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God (Heb. 9:13-14).


http://biblicalholidays.com/Tabernacles/messiah_in_tabernacles.htm




The Water Libations

Every sacrifice brought in the Temple was accompanied by a flour offering and the pouring of a prescribed measure of wine on the altar. During the seven days of the Festival of Sukkot a libation of water was added to that of wine together with each of the daily morning offerings. This water libation is not explicitly mentioned in Torah but it is a law revealed to Moshe on Sinai to which the Sages have found allusions in the Torah.

The Water Libation was performed with intense joy. Accompanying the Water Libation were festivities entitled Simchas Beis HaShoavah, or happiness of the house of the water-drawing) refering to the waters, which were drawn from the pool of Shiloach (which is referred to as the waters of salvation). The festivities were held in the Ezrat Nashim, which was the courtyard of the outer Temple. Though a relatively small area, miracously, many thousands of happy people were able to crowd in. There was dancing and singing in celebration of the drawing of the water.

Our sages said, "He who has not seen the rejoicing at the Simchas Beis Hashoavah, has never seen rejoicing in his life."

Why was the Water Libation such a happy occasion? It is as if G-d says to Israel, "All your offerings are precious to Me, but this offering of the water which you pour on the altar during the festival is especially precious. Water requires neither planting nor reaping or pressing no purifying. Let it be joined with the wine libation, which requires all sorts of preparations. In my eyes, your wine and water are equal, those that require great effort and those that don't, so long as you rejoice in me without any mixture of foreign thoughts or ulterior motives." Through the water libation, the Jewish people knew that all their exertion in the service of G-d throughout the year rises to be accepted by him.


http://www.cbn.com/SpiritualLife/BibleStudyAndTheology/Discipleship/feasttabernacles0902.asp



The Mishna says: "Anyone who has not witnessed the rejoicing of the libation water-well, Beit HaSho'eivah, has never seen rejoicing in his life" Succah 5:1



In the Midrash Rabbah - Beresheeth (Genesis) LXX:8, we read, "Why is the name of it called the drawing out of water? Because of the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, according to what is said: 'With joy shall ye draw out of the wells of salvation'" (Yeshayahu 12:3)



Yochanan (John) 7:37-39 On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.



Throughout the year, a wine libation accompanied the daily tamid-offering. Each day of Succoth an additional libation of water was poured (see Succah 4:9). Although this water libation is not mentioned specifically in the Torah, it is alluded to in the section (Bamidbar (Numbers) 29) describing the Succoth mussaf (additional) sacrifices where three superfluous letters are inserted.



In describing the mussaf of the second day (v.19), the Torah uses the word "their libations" (rather than "it's libation" - the expression used for the other days). Thus, there is an extra 'mem'. For the sixth day the Torah uses "it's libations" (v.31), providing an extra 'yod'. And in describing the seventh day (v.33), the Torah uses the word ...... rather than the word ..... which appears on all other days - again an extra 'mem'. The three extra letters spell 'mem yod mem', water, an allusion to the Succoth water libation (Taanis 2b). Thus, 'On the second day there is an allusion to the pouring of the water libation'.



This special libation was performed ONLY during the seven days of Succoth. All other libations, in the Temple, were of wine poured on the Altar, but during the seven days of Succoth water was poured simultaneously with the wine libation as part of the daily burnt offering in the morning. (Gemara 44a)



The Kohen performing the ceremony filled a golden flagon holding three lugin of water from the Shiloach, a well near Jerusalem. When they reached the Water Gate, one of the Southern Gates of the Temple Courtyard they sounded a tekiah, teruah, and a tekiah. He went up the ramp and turned to his left. There were two silver bowls there: The western one was for water; the Eastern one was for wine (Succah 4:9).



Devout men and men of good deeds would dance before them with the flaming torches in their hands and would utter before them words of songs and praises of God. The Levites with harps, lyres, cymbals, trumpets, and countless other musical instruments would stand on the fifteen steps that descend from the Courtyard of the Israelites to the Women's Courtyard. Two Kohanim stood at the Upper Gate that descends from the Courtyard of the Israelites to the Women's Courtyard with two trumpets in their hands. When the crier called out at dawn, the two Kohanim sounded a tekiah, teruah, and tekiah. When those who brought the water that had been drawn from the well of Shiloach reached the tenth step between the Women's Courtyard and the Israelite's Courtyard, the Kohanim sounded a tekiah, teruah, and a tekiah. They would continue sounding tekiah until they reached the gate leading out to the east (Succah 5:4).



One opinion, among many, is that the golden pitcher contained approximately 30.6 ounces of water. Some say it was much more.



The water gate was so named because the High Priest brought the golden pitcher of water, from the pool of siloam through this gate, to the Temple.



'At four junctures of the year the world is judged... and on the Festival of Succoth they are judged for the water (i.e., the rainfall)' - Rosh Hashanah 1:2



The Illumination of the Temple



Another ceremony of Succoth, the illumination of the Temple, also had it's source in Jewish tradition. According to the Mishna, at the end of the first day of Tabernacles, the priests and Levites went down to the court of the women. Four enormous golden candlesticks were set up in the court (fifty cubits high) with four golden bowls placed upon them and four ladders resting against each. Four youths of priestly descent stood at the top of the ladders holding ten-gallon pitchers filled with pure oil, which they poured into each bowl (Succah 5:2)



There was not a courtyard in Jerusalem that was not illuminated by the light of the Beit HaSho'eivah (Succah 5:3).



The priests and Levites used their own worn-out liturgical clothing for wicks. The light emanating from the four candelabra was so bright that the Mishna says, "There was no courtyard in Jerusalem that was not lit up with the light at the libation water-well ceremony" (Succah 5:3)



Yochanan (John) 8:12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

http://tckillian.com/greg/succoth.html#_Toc18490744


The Sign is mentioned to totally seal the minds of Hebraic readers to know that HE is indeed Messiah, and to deny it now- denies the prophesy in the Torah, and even in the Talmud and Mishneh as written by the Sages.

[Rosebudlr]

Thankyou all who answered for me. While I do understand the medical sides of this, I apolgize for not being more clear in what I was really looking for. I was looking into the symbolizim of this , the religious reason, etc. . I did get that answer above also and all answers are GREATLY appreciated!

I was thinking there had to be a religious explanation for the blood and water.

[antsinmypants]

I was thinking there had to be a religious explanation for the blood and water.

:nod :thumb you are correct.

You'll find it in the great expanse of commentary by the sages.. all over the place, as well as on a deeper level in scripture.

Note that Y'shua also changed water into wine. This was a prophetic saying of the Sages (who actually made a list of things Messiah would have to do) - which Y'shua fufilled.