Church congregation services as a stumblingblock

[Jiggy37]

I was pondering this while listening to the sermon today, and I realized why I don't particularly like attending church congregation services. :confused

The first reason is that in me it seems to promote a lack of personal responsibility (I'm not saying that it does this for everyone, but for me at least)--it's simply easier to sit around and listen to a guy speak on one or two chapters of the Bible for an hour straight than it is for me to discipline myself into reading multiple chapters of the Word for an hour straight. Perhaps I would get more out of the Bible if I used that time on my own. :confused
And considering that opening prayers (of any church denomination congregation service) usually involve a call for God to speak through the pastor, the pastor usually seems to have his sermons pretty prepared ahead of time, which to me seems like a denial of the power of the Holy Spirit. :confused I don't want to keep feeling like, by listening to these sermons, I'm saying to God, "I have more faith in Your servant to preach the truth to me than I have faith in Your Holy Spirit to lead me through the study of Your Word." :confused

The second reason is that there's too much of an ulterior motive for me to go. If you've noticed my last WTS thread, you'd notice how I talk about how I let all my friendships and relationships just kind of slip away from me... Well, when I go to a church congregation, I go with a hope floating around in the back of my mind that someone else I know will be there. :wacko
You know the statistics that say how married people are much more likely to go? Well, I think I understand why: you feel kind of like a doof when you're standing around alone even though you're surrounded by all these people who came in a group and know each other intimately and everyone's got their cliques, and meanwhile you're just some outsider. :noidea I mean, even at the door the ushers are like "just one?" and I'm like "yeah," and to a certain extent it's somewhat depressing, like going out to eat dinner alone or something. :noidea Yes, there's an admonition not to forsake the gathering together, but I'm not exactly sure how much togetherness there is to begin with in a given church denomination's building for someone like me. :confused I feel like I'm kind of there, but not really there, if you know what I mean, and I spend like ten percent of my time noticing others and how close thye are--it's not jealousy, but I'll go like "awww," and it winds up distracting me from the sermon.
So like I said, when I go there's this vague hope floating around in my mind that maybe, just maybe, someone I know will be there, and we'll get reacquainted and such, and I can revitalize whatever friendships I left behind that I miss. :sigh I don't think that's necessarily an evil motive, but if it's even part of the reason for going, is it even worthwhile to go?

I recall a time in my junior year when I overheard a discussion from one of my acquaintances about how a friend of hers only "went to church" because of some girl, and how she thought that was "sad, because he should be going to church for God," and at the time I was struck by how true that was (despite myself not attending any given church denomination congregation at that time, and despite not even reading the Bible at that time other than the blips of it I got from the Left Behind series)--and yet here I am four years later and God is maybe 35% of my motivation to attend church congregation services at best, with the other 65% being a mixture of feeling like it's a commandment, feeling like others at RR are going to chastise me if I don't, feeling like it's the easiest way to get an understanding of the Word, and hoping that someone else will be there so I can fix my own damaged past with the help of the Holy Spirit, all of which seem to be horrible reasons to me.

So what am I supposed to do? :confused I can't just tell myself "there's absolutely no chance at all, none whatsoever, that anybody I know will be there" or "it is absolutely true that attending church congregation services in the modern-day format cannot possibly be a commandment" or "it is absolutely impossible that the Holy Spirit can speak through the pastor better than to me" or things like that, but as long as those are floating around in my mind as possible ulterior motives, what am I to do or think?

[valerie]

Jiggy,

I don't see your feelings as being too different from anyone elses.
Also, your wanting to be there for friendship... That's what fellowship is!

I personally do not go to church for the teaching. I am a student of God's word. I always get more out of my own personal study than a topical discourse from a preacher. However, I do open up my bible, follow, record any insights from the speaker. You can usually pick up something, even from the least skilled teacher.

I go to church because of the simple fact the God's word tells me this...
"Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together."

It's pretty simply why. There is strength, edification, unity, support, etc, etc, in groups. Believers are called out of this world and should not have much in common with the things of the world. You need like minded people.

We can pick everyone else apart til our dying day, but the fact remains, we will never look at any other believer or any church and feel like they are perfect. We are riddled with sin and weakness. So to make excuses for not assembling ourselves together because of other's hypocrisy or other's seeming lack of spirituality is hypocritical ourselves.

It's not just about me. The fact is that every member of the body of Christ needs me. Not because I am so great, I'm obviously not. But because God has made me to use me for His glory in the body. If I do not make myself available, I am not allowing God to use me as He wants.

It also sounds like you need a little strengthening. We all do. If you can find a church that has more of a youth atmosphere and less old/married/family memberships you might feel more at home and useful yourself. Until you grow stronger and can be the example of the right thing rather than the one who is looking for the right thing.

I have been to many churches. None of them have been perfect. Some of them were awful - doctrinally unsound. Some of them were not a good fit for me at ALL! Some of them are better than others. It's just a matter of finding a group that you have something in common with and then sticking it out until you grow together.

It's been almost 2 years at this church we attend now. We are only just now beginning to feel like it is home. It took that long for relationships to form. A lot of it had to do with becoming more involved as opportunity presented itself. I have been to churches where I felt like I was home the first week. Those are special.

Be obedient to God.
Study for your own personal growth.
Forsake not the assembling of yourself with others. (and sometimes that doesn't have to be a 10 - 12 service on Sunday morning, it can be a home fellowship, or a group of friends who TRULY hold one another accountable in their Christian life)
Continue to submit yourself to what you learn in God's word and apply it to your life.

He will take care of the rest. :):

[Harley]

I...The first reason is that in me it seems to promote a lack of personal responsibility (I'm not saying that it does this for everyone, but for me at least)--it's simply easier to sit around and listen to a guy speak on one or two chapters of the Bible for an hour straight than it is for me to discipline myself into reading multiple chapters of the Word for an hour straight. Perhaps I would get more out of the Bible if I used that time on my own. :confused
These are not mutually exclusive. I'd say people need both a guy speaking indepth about the Bible and their own study of it.

...And considering that opening prayers (of any church denomination congregation service) usually involve a call for God to speak through the pastor, the pastor usually seems to have his sermons pretty prepared ahead of time, which to me seems like a denial of the power of the Holy Spirit.
These prayers can become cliche, depending on the heart of the prayer, but they do not necessarily deny the power of the Holy Spirit. First, the prayer to God to speak through the sermon is as much directed for the benefit of the cvongregation - that they would hear God in the sermon. Secondly, the Holy Spirit can work all week in the pastors preparation, so having a sermon all ready to go is not a denial of the Spirit - as if he only works on Sunday mornings.

...The second reason is that there's too much of an ulterior motive for me to go. If you've noticed my last WTS thread, you'd notice how I talk about how I let all my friendships and relationships just kind of slip away from me... Well, when I go to a church congregation, I go with a hope floating around in the back of my mind that someone else I know will be there.
Only you can know if your motivation is "too much" - but I do not think wanting to be with friends, or even hoping to meet a mate is an inappropriate motivation for church attendance. Assuming it is not he only, or highest ranking motive. Fellowship is a key component of the Body of Christ.

[UNeverEverNo]

Jiggy,

If your Church isn't doing anything for your spiritual life, get out.

Find a Bible-believing, Christ-centered church that will uplift you and bring you closer to the Lord. They're out there.

Time is short. :): And the world is crying out to hear about the love of Jesus.

[Benja32one]

Jiggy,

If your Church isn't doing anything for your spiritual life, get out.Find a Bible-believing, Christ-centered church that will uplift you and bring you closer to the Lord. They're out there.

Time is short. :): And the world is crying out to hear about the love of Jesus.
Jiggy, this poster has a good solution to your plight. For many years I have attended Baptist churches. (There are no brethren assemblies in this area.)They seem to be closest to the Word, except for one other type of assembly....Open Brethren. There is a difference in method here. Most Baptists invite 'sinners down the aisle' to get saved. Brethren assemblies try to win individuals out in the community, at work, or any relationship where effective witnessing is possible, or in evangelistic meetings, a format aimed at the unsaved. AFTER a person is born again, they are invited to The Lord's Table service. Evangelistic services are separate meetings, to try to avoid putting an unbeliever in the position of not understanding the intent of the Table. I have noticed that the last thing an unsaved man wants to do is 'go forward' and 'pray' or otherwise display himself publicly. There is in most churches, this 'mixed multitude' of saved and unsaved, listening to gospel messages. One pastor I know nearly cried, asking me why after preaching his heart out week after week, the 'invitations' were not effective. The answer is, quite simply, you don't go to the sheep cote and shoot deer! You'll probably be shooting sheep. So. I think the separation of evangelism services and the Lord's Table services AND bible teaching services makes a lot of sense. IMHO :nod :thumb

[pilgrimian]

Jiggy,

I'm not sure where you are in California...but I personally welcome you to come to our congregation. You won't feel out of place as a single guy, and we're not cliquish.

Before I got married I did dislike going to church--until I got to be part of a Bible study, and we all attended the same church. I look forward to Saturdays all week long. Shabbat service, and the oneg to follow, is the best.

We meet in Orange, California on LaVeta (downstairs from Chafer Seminary).

[jackie's_notes]

Another reason why it is important to attend church is that "where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst." So Jesus meets with us in a different in a group of believers.

You mention a pastor reading his sermon that he has prepared ahead of time. Ministers that I have known in my lifetime (64 years) always prepare. If they are men of God they will be led in their study and preparation. God still inspires them when they present the Word. And it is the Word that will not return void. The Word brings fruit and is blessed of God.

From experience, I know that it is difficult to go to a new church and feel part of it. Human nature seems to thrive on "your own group".

I truly believe that if you rely on the Lord, He will lead you to a group that will meet your needs. You have to go more than once, however. I would relate it to going on a new job. It takes time to become known and for your to know the people.

As a personal testimony, I had not attended church for several years because I was disabled and my husband wouldn't attend. However, I kept praying for my husband, and when my cancer got really bad in November, suddenly he went to church and just loves it, and the people especially are so friendly that he can't believe it. God is at work! And Sunday one of his daughter's got saved. On a prayer & praise thread I tell about it. My point is that God will lead you to your place in the Body of Christ that is especially for you.

May God bless you in your journey. It is difficult sometimes, but it is going to be worth it!!

[greatestislove]

Jiggy,

Just wanted to say..........................awesome signature! :thumb

[Selah]

Jiggy--

I say this in great love to you, brother--all the reasons that you have listed for not attending church are things that the enemy has planted in your head. They are fears, and fear is not of the Lord. (2 Timothy 1:7) They are things to be avoided, but will be overcome with prayer from the Lord.

Can you be a Christian without going to church? Of course! But attending church is a requirement for full, complete, and healthy Christian maturity because serving within a body is part of that.

As was previously noted, God comes together in the midst of corporate worship in a way that is not done alone, and serving the Lord in it's many ways ("one another" verses, ministry of any kind) was designed to be done by a group, which is why the Holy Spirit gives each Christian a small handful of spiritual gifts--instead of giving each Christian all of them. We are supposed to fill our nitch within a group of local believers. It's why we are called the "Body of Christ"! :):

Please pursue a Biblical church with all your heart. Pull out the sections of scripture that describe a healthy church, study them, pray, and ask God to show you were to go. Then go. Make certain that all of your decisions for attending (or not attending) a church are based on Biblical reason, and not things like, "But this isn't a convenient drive for me." But most importantly, ask God to guide you. He will guide you to the church that He already has picked out just for you, that is specific for increasing your personal growth.

(Side note: This is not to say that you will find a perfect-people church. Doctrinally, for issues which we cannot divide on, you must expect perfection only. But on non-essentials, expect some divisions. It's normal and healthy.

Don't expect all people in the church to be perfect Christians, although individuals in leadership should not be found practicing sins in areas of strongholds.)

If you truly believe that we are all given gifts to use in service to the Lord, which we are, then a church somewhere--right now, this very minute--is missing a hand. Or an eye. Or a foot.

Please--fulfill your calling. It will take time, but God is so willing to show you the church He called together for you right now!

I love you, brother, and I will be praying for you... :hug

[Jiggy37]

Jiggy,

I don't see your feelings as being too different from anyone elses.
Also, your wanting to be there for friendship... That's what fellowship is!But is that a good thing? :confused
And personally I have yet to come across a congregation where people actually fellowship other than turning and shaking someone's hand and saying hi for about two seconds at the beginning of the service after the worship... :wacko I'm not exactly sure what fellowship people are supposed to have in a congregation, but I'm pretty sure that I've never seen it...
I personally do not go to church for the teaching. I am a student of God's word. I always get more out of my own personal study than a topical discourse from a preacher. However, I do open up my bible, follow, record any insights from the speaker. You can usually pick up something, even from the least skilled teacher.Hmm, true.
I go to church because of the simple fact the God's word tells me this...
"Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together."

It's pretty simply why. There is strength, edification, unity, support, etc, etc, in groups. Believers are called out of this world and should not have much in common with the things of the world. You need like minded people.But the only like-minded person I hear from is the pastor. :confused Everybody else is just sitting around and listening...
It also sounds like you need a little strengthening. We all do. If you can find a church that has more of a youth atmosphere and less old/married/family memberships you might feel more at home and useful yourself.Hmm... yeah, that's a good point, I suppose. :wacko There's a lot of commentary in the sermons that doesn't really apply to me in any way.
Be obedient to God.
Study for your own personal growth.
Forsake not the assembling of yourself with others. (and sometimes that doesn't have to be a 10 - 12 service on Sunday morning, it can be a home fellowship, or a group of friends who TRULY hold one another accountable in their Christian life)
Continue to submit yourself to what you learn in God's word and apply it to your life.

He will take care of the rest. :)::):





These prayers can become cliche, depending on the heart of the prayer, but they do not necessarily deny the power of the Holy Spirit. First, the prayer to God to speak through the sermon is as much directed for the benefit of the cvongregation - that they would hear God in the sermon. Secondly, the Holy Spirit can work all week in the pastors preparation, so having a sermon all ready to go is not a denial of the Spirit - as if he only works on Sunday mornings.Well... okay, I suppose that's true.
Only you can know if your motivation is "too much" - but I do not think wanting to be with friends, or even hoping to meet a mate is an inappropriate motivation for church attendance. Assuming it is not he only, or highest ranking motive. Fellowship is a key component of the Body of Christ.It is? :confused

[Jiggy37]

Jiggy,

If your Church isn't doing anything for your spiritual life, get out.

Find a Bible-believing, Christ-centered church that will uplift you and bring you closer to the Lord. They're out there.

Time is short. :): And the world is crying out to hear about the love of Jesus.So you think I should keep looking, basically?



Jiggy, this poster has a good solution to your plight. For many years I have attended Baptist churches. (There are no brethren assemblies in this area.)They seem to be closest to the Word, except for one other type of assembly....Open Brethren. There is a difference in method here. Most Baptists invite 'sinners down the aisle' to get saved. Brethren assemblies try to win individuals out in the community, at work, or any relationship where effective witnessing is possible, or in evangelistic meetings, a format aimed at the unsaved. AFTER a person is born again, they are invited to The Lord's Table service. Evangelistic services are separate meetings, to try to avoid putting an unbeliever in the position of not understanding the intent of the Table. I have noticed that the last thing an unsaved man wants to do is 'go forward' and 'pray' or otherwise display himself publicly. There is in most churches, this 'mixed multitude' of saved and unsaved, listening to gospel messages. One pastor I know nearly cried, asking me why after preaching his heart out week after week, the 'invitations' were not effective. The answer is, quite simply, you don't go to the sheep cote and shoot deer! You'll probably be shooting sheep. So. I think the separation of evangelism services and the Lord's Table services AND bible teaching services makes a lot of sense. IMHO :nod :thumbThat sounds pretty cool, but I don't think there are any of those around here... :lol I printed out a list of like 90 church buildings in the area when I was looking a while back, and didn't see anything called "Open Brethren"...



Jiggy,

I'm not sure where you are in California...but I personally welcome you to come to our congregation. You won't feel out of place as a single guy, and we're not cliquish.

Before I got married I did dislike going to church--until I got to be part of a Bible study, and we all attended the same church. I look forward to Saturdays all week long. Shabbat service, and the oneg to follow, is the best.

We meet in Orange, California on LaVeta (downstairs from Chafer Seminary).I live in the High Desert, so that's a bit far away... :wacko

[Jiggy37]

Another reason why it is important to attend church is that "where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst." So Jesus meets with us in a different in a group of believers.

You mention a pastor reading his sermon that he has prepared ahead of time. Ministers that I have known in my lifetime (64 years) always prepare. If they are men of God they will be led in their study and preparation. God still inspires them when they present the Word. And it is the Word that will not return void. The Word brings fruit and is blessed of God.Hmm... okay. I guess I'll have to remember that next time political discussions come up and someone says there's something wrong with "prepared speeches" since they don't come from the heart... That was where my doubt came in, but what you're saying makes more sense.
From experience, I know that it is difficult to go to a new church and feel part of it. Human nature seems to thrive on "your own group". I truly believe that if you rely on the Lord, He will lead you to a group that will meet your needs. You have to go more than once, however. I would relate it to going on a new job. It takes time to become known and for your to know the people.Well, I've been to the Calvary Chapel about seven or eight times now and so far I don't really recognize anybody... :wacko
As a personal testimony, I had not attended church for several years because I was disabled and my husband wouldn't attend. However, I kept praying for my husband, and when my cancer got really bad in November, suddenly he went to church and just loves it, and the people especially are so friendly that he can't believe it. God is at work! And Sunday one of his daughter's got saved. On a prayer & praise thread I tell about it. My point is that God will lead you to your place in the Body of Christ that is especially for you.

May God bless you in your journey. It is difficult sometimes, but it is going to be worth it!!:thumb



Jiggy,

Just wanted to say..........................awesome signature! :thumb:lol



Jiggy--

I say this in great love to you, brother--all the reasons that you have listed for not attending church are things that the enemy has planted in your head. They are fears, and fear is not of the Lord. (2 Timothy 1:7) They are things to be avoided, but will be overcome with prayer from the Lord.Well, I do attend... I'm just not sure I get anything out of it. :confused
Can you be a Christian without going to church? Of course! But attending church is a requirement for full, complete, and healthy Christian maturity because serving within a body is part of that.

As was previously noted, God comes together in the midst of corporate worship in a way that is not done alone, and serving the Lord in it's many ways ("one another" verses, ministry of any kind) was designed to be done by a group, which is why the Holy Spirit gives each Christian a small handful of spiritual gifts--instead of giving each Christian all of them. We are supposed to fill our nitch within a group of local believers. It's why we are called the "Body of Christ"! :):Okay, but how am I serving by sitting there and listening to the pastor speak? :confused That to me seems to be just exactly the same thing as Bible study, which could be done anywhere and at any time. If I was the pastor, I could see how it would be serving the body, or if I was an usher or a singer or one of the people who keeps track of how the music goes, I could see that too, but right now it seems like I'm just some guy who shows up, sits down, listens, and then leaves. :wacko

Oh, and what is the way that God comes together in the midst of corporate worship that is not done alone? :confused If it was from earlier in the thread, I think I missed the point entirely... :wacko
Please pursue a Biblical church with all your heart. Pull out the sections of scripture that describe a healthy church, study them, pray, and ask God to show you where to go. Then go.Hmm... what are those sections? I've read through the New Testament twice, but offhand I can't recall any specific scripture about what a congregation should be like (just a lot of scripture about what a congregation shouldn't be like :lol). And there are the letters in Revelation, I know, but those seem to be describing a spiritual standpoint, not what kind of activities and fellowship and practices a congregation should have...
But most importantly, ask God to guide you. He will guide you to the church that He already has picked out just for you, that is specific for increasing your personal growth.

[...]If you truly believe that we are all given gifts to use in service to the Lord, which we are, then a church somewhere--right now, this very minute--is missing a hand. Or an eye. Or a foot.

Please--fulfill your calling. It will take time, but God is so willing to show you the church He called together for you right now!Okay, I will ask... :thumb
I love you, brother, and I will be praying for you... :hug:hug I love you too sis. :D:

[Selah]

If I was the pastor, I could see how it would be serving the body, or if I was an usher or a singer or one of the people who keeps track of how the music goes, I could see that too, but right now it seems like I'm just some guy who shows up, sits down, listens, and then leaves.

Yes! I am very glad that you "felt" this. Are you serving anywhere, Jiggy? Everyone should be serving--that's where the use of the spiritual gifts bestowed by the Holy Spirit first come into play. :):


It is awesome that you have read through the entire NT! However, it is also important to keep in mind that when we seek answers to questions that we approach the Word with the desire to know the answer to a question.

Here is a verse for you (a very long sentence, I might add):

11And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ-- 16from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16

Some verses to study:
1 Thessalonians 4:9-12
1 Timothy 3:1-13 (for Christian leadership; see my previous post comments)
1 Timothy 6:3-5
Titus 1, 2 and 3 (<--The entire book of Titus is fantastic for the nature of this study!)
2 Peter 1:5-11 (for a description of fruitful growth)
1 John 1:5-10 (fellowship)

These are just highlights, but essentially, a study of every epistle is truly in order.

And of course--the book of Acts. :):


:hug :kiss

You are so special to me, Jiggy... I know that God will bless you in this... :nod

[jackie's_notes]

I just encourage you to keep studying your Bible, praying about it; and the Lord will lead you to the right place at the right time. There is much wrong with churches today; so it is important to be in the right place.

Don't ever feel that you are not useful for the Lord. If you go to a church, be in prayer for the pastor, for the special requests; for the missionaries. God is going to bless you and through all your searching, you are going to find your special place.

Maybe we don't always know what it is right away. And some obvious things that people do might not even be where that person fits. I was an organist and pianist for all my life in church. But I feel my real place is today being an intercessor and witnessing for the Lord in the midst of terminal illness. I have never had such joy, such blessing and such confidence that God has allowed all of this to accomplish His purpose in me.

I pray that you will feel blessed and necessary and know that the Lord is leading you on your journey to your heavenly home. It is not always easy, but it will be worth it all when we see Jesus.

[Benja32one]

So you think I should keep looking, basically?



That sounds pretty cool, but I don't think there are any of those around here... :lol I printed out a list of like 90 church buildings in the area when I was looking a while back, and didn't see anything called "Open Brethren"...



I live in the High Desert, so that's a bit far away... :wacko
The assemblies usually go by the names of Bible Chapel, Assembly of the Brethren or Bible Church sometimes. Ask aroiund for "Plymouth Brethren", though they prefer just brethren. I think Vista CA has a Bible Chapel.
:thumb :nod

[pilgrimian]

I live in the High Desert, so that's a bit far away... :wacko

Shucks...too bad you live so far out there.

Yes, keep looking! I'll be praying that you find a home church. I know there are good ones out there...and goodness knows they're difficult to find.

Blessings,
Matthew