Omnipresence?

[frisian1970]

"God's omnipresence means, not that He fills all space,
but that there are no spatial barriers to His presence."

Henry Stob



What thinks ye'?

[MercifullySaved]

Sounds like an accurate definition of omnipresence. :thumb

[frisian1970]

Sounds like an accurate definition of omnipresence. :thumb

Which had me thinking of God's use of His angels perhaps?

Shoot, I can't find the verses I am thinking of.

:doh :doh :doh

[AnyDayNow]

Friz, Hey! :wave I thought you were on vacation. Actually, the closest thing to even seeing a small glimpse of what God's Omnipresence is sorta, kinda, like would be Mamacag's excessive amount of posting on the board! Man, she's everywhere! :heh

On the serious side, the quote you gave isn't that bad. :):

[frisian1970]

Friz, Hey! :wave I thought you were on vacation. Actually, the closest thing to even seeing a small glimpse of what God's Omnipresence is sorta, kinda, like would be Mamacag's excessive amount of posting on the board! Man, she's everywhere! :heh

On the serious side, the quote you gave isn't that bad. :):

:spit

I am back in the saddle again.

:noidea

[joy4Him2day]

:spit

I am back in the saddle again.

:noidea

always keep your spurs on, you never know when you'll meet a horse.....

[A_AmericanSaint]

Hope these verses help you out frisian.

Exodus 3:14 'And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, "I AM has sent me to you." '

Job 38:12-13 ' 12"Have you commanded the morning since your days began,
And caused the dawn to know its place,
13That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
And the wicked be shaken out of it? '

Job 38:31-33 '31"Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades,
Or loose the belt of Orion?
32Can you bring out Mazzaroth[1] in its season?
Or can you guide the Great Bear with its cubs?
33Do you know the ordinances of the heavens?
Can you set their dominion over the earth? '

Job 38:34-47 '34"Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
That an abundance of water may cover you?
35Can you send out lightnings, that they may go,
And say to you, "Here we are!'?
36Who has put wisdom in the mind?[2]
Or who has given understanding to the heart?
37Who can number the clouds by wisdom?
Or who can pour out the bottles of heaven, '

Job 39:13-18 ' 13"The wings of the ostrich wave proudly,
But are her wings and pinions like the kindly stork's?
14For she leaves her eggs on the ground,
And warms them in the dust;
15She forgets that a foot may crush them,
Or that a wild beast may break them.
16She treats her young harshly, as though they were not hers;
Her labor is in vain, without concern,
17Because God deprived her of wisdom,
And did not endow her with understanding.
18When she lifts herself on high,
She scorns the horse and its rider. '

I've found to really understand God's omnipotence, you gotta study His 'holiness'. Being Holy is God's claim to awsomeness. RC Sproul has a great book on this: The Holiness of God. Really interesting stuff.

[Tankermom]

"God's omnipresence means, not that He fills all space,
but that there are no spatial barriers to His presence."

Henry Stob



What thinks ye'?

the only authority I have to comment on the issue comes from the Word of God!

"Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?" Psalm 139:7

I would say I agree with Mr. Stob. However, Isaiah 6:3 says the whole earth is filled with the glory of God. Well, what's the difference between the glory of God and the presence of God?

[joy4Him2day]

In my opinion, and according to Tankermom's post,
I think He is able to be everywhere at once.......

[frisian1970]

the only authority I have to comment on the issue comes from the Word of God!

"Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?" Psalm 139:7

I would say I agree with Mr. Stob. However, Isaiah 6:3 says the whole earth is filled with the glory of God. Well, what's the difference between the glory of God and the presence of God?Hmmm, I would say the glory is an effect of God and not direct, although I could be wrong. Otherwise everything that exists could be said to be God.

[Jiggy37]

"God's omnipresence means, not that He fills all space,
but that there are no spatial barriers to His presence."

Henry Stob



What thinks ye'?I think I agree, because if God filled all space, there wouldn't be anything else (since there wouldn't be room for anything else because God would already be filling it).
But I can't go further than "I think," because since He's God, it might be that He simultaneously fills and does not all fill all space, sort of "co-existing" alongside His creation. I doubt it, though, partially because it reminds me of Epicurean beliefs.

[MercifullySaved]

I would say I agree with Mr. Stob. However, Isaiah 6:3 says the whole earth is filled with the glory of God. Well, what's the difference between the glory of God and the presence of God?

The presence of God means He is right there, present in such space.
The glory of God is like His shadow. Wherever He is, you'll find His glory, although He is not the same as His glory. The whole earth isn't filled with God--that would be pantheism. Rather, He is present, and casts His glory throughout the earth.

[matheteou]

From Ryrie's "Basic Theology":Omnipresence
1. Meaning. Omnipresence means that God is everywhere present with His whole being at all times.
2. Scripture. In Psalm 139:7-11 David asks the question if there is anyplace one can escape from the presence of God. His answer is no, for His omnipresence is unlimited by space (v. 8), undaunted by speed (v. 9), and unaffected by darkness (vv. 11-12).
3. Some distinctions. As stated in the definition, omnipresence does not mean that God’s being is diffused throughout the universe as if part of Him is here and part of Him there. His whole being is in every place, and the presence of the Lord within every believer serves as a good illustration of this.
Omnipresence does not mean that the immediacy of His presence does not vary. It does. His presence on His throne (Rev. 4:2), in Solomon’s temple (2 Chron. 7:2), or in the believer (Gal. 2:20) certainly differs in its immediacy from His presence in the lake of fire (Rev. 14:10). Though in the lake of fire people will be separated from the face-presence of God (2 Thes. 1:9, prosopon), they will never be separated from Him who is omnipresent (Rev. 14:10, enopion). There is obviously no presence of fellowship (for His face will be turned away from the wicked in the lake of fire) as exists when He indwells believers.
Omnipresence differs from pantheism which identifies the universe with God. The term was first used by the English deist, John Toland (1670-1722) in 1705 when he taught that “God is the mind or soul of the universe.” This heresy fails to distinguish the Creator from the created, a distinction taught in the very first verse of the Bible.
Omnipresence also differs from pantheism as used by process theologians to mean that God’s being penetrates the whole universe yet is not exhausted by the universe. Omnipresence does mean that God is everywhere present but not diffused throughout or penetrating the universe. Furthermore, God is not developing as process theology teaches.
4. Some ramifications. No person can escape the presence of God. This warns unbelievers and comforts believers who, because God is omnipresent, can practice the experience of His presence in every circumstance of life.

[Tankermom]

I think I agree, because if God filled all space, there wouldn't be anything else (since there wouldn't be room for anything else because God would already be filling it).
But I can't go further than "I think," because since He's God, it might be that He simultaneously fills and does not all fill all space, sort of "co-existing" alongside His creation. I doubt it, though, partially because it reminds me of Epicurean beliefs.

Isn't it possible that God exisits in a whole other realm then the one we exist in? God is a spiritual being and according to scripture dwells in the hearts of all who believe and confess Him as Lord. So in the spiritual realm wouldn't it be very possible to say that God is everywhere and fills all space?

[Tankermom]

The presence of God means He is right there, present in such space.
The glory of God is like His shadow. Wherever He is, you'll find His glory, although He is not the same as His glory. The whole earth isn't filled with God--that would be pantheism. Rather, He is present, and casts His glory throughout the earth.

Pantheism has nothing to do with the Ominpresence of God...it has to do with the idea that god is all things and therefore all gods are tolerable.

If the glory of God is His shadow, and scripture clearly says his glory fills the earth then wouldn't His presence need to also fill the earth? Because how can something cast a shadow if it isn't present? I believe the glory of God is the "going out" of God's godness! The exertion of His holiness and righteousness and all those things that make Him God! Like the evidence that He is God!

Just for the record....I believe...like joy said....that God can and is everywhere at once!

[Tankermom]

my brain hurts :nerd

[Hootmon]

However, Isaiah 6:3 says the whole earth is filled with the glory of God. Well, what's the difference between the glory of God and the presence of God? Isa 6:3 And one cried7121 unto413, (2088) another,2088 and said,559 Holy,6918 holy,6918 holy,6918 is the LORD3068 of hosts:6635 the whole3605 earth776 is full4393 of his glory.3519

H3519
כּבד / כּבוד
kâbôd
BDB Definition:
1) glory, honour, glorious, abundance
1a) abundance, riches
1b) honour, splendour, glory
1c) honour, dignity
1d) honour, reputation
1e) honour, reverence, glory
1f) glory
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H3513 H3513
כּבד / כּבד
kâbad / kâbêd
BDB Definition:
1) to be heavy, be weighty, be grievous, be hard, be rich, be honourable, be glorious, be burdensome, be honoured
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to be heavy
1a2) to be heavy, be insensible, be dull
1a3) to be honoured
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to be made heavy, be honoured, enjoy honour, be made abundant
1b2) to get oneself glory or honour, gain glory
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to make heavy, make dull, make insensible
1c2) to make honourable, honour, glorify
1d) (Pual) to be made honourable, be honoured
1e) (Hiphil)
1e1) to make heavy
1e2) to make heavy, make dull, make unresponsive
1e3) to cause to be honoured
1f) (Hithpael)
1f1) to make oneself heavy, make oneself dense, make oneself numerous
1f2) to honour oneself
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root I get the sense that God's glory 'filling the earth' is something like the 'texture' or 'fabric' of it.

That should be seen as a synonym for 'omnipresence', but not 'omniscience'.

[Hootmon]

Hmmm, I would say the glory is an effect of God and not direct, although I could be wrong. Otherwise everything that exists could be said to be God.That's sort of what I was saying in my last post.

[frisian1970]

That's sort of what I was saying in my last post.
Ah, but you said it better than I.

[MercifullySaved]

Pantheism has nothing to do with the Ominpresence of God...it has to do with the idea that god is all things and therefore all gods are tolerable.



I'm quite aware of what pantheism is :B: Maybe you misunderstood me. What I meant is that the belief that God is in the earth (and hence a part of the earth) would be pantheistic. And no, a God that is separate from and above all of creation is not a tolerable or valid God within the pantheist's worldview.

[Tankermom]

I'm quite aware of what pantheism is :B: Maybe you misunderstood me. What I meant is that the belief that God is in the earth (and hence a part of the earth) would be pantheistic. And no, a God that is separate from and above all of creation is not a tolerable or valid God within the pantheist's worldview.

maybe YOU misunderstood me :confused I was talking about God being present everywhere at all times...you seem to be talking about people thinking God is the tree's, or the stars, or the water, or the grass! I don't doubt that the glory of God can be seen in these things because God's glory( the extention of His godness) is ominpresent!

God can be in the earth without being "the earth". I guess I don't see where your making the connection with pantheism.

[Jiggy37]

Isn't it possible that God exisits in a whole other realm then the one we exist in? God is a spiritual being and according to scripture dwells in the hearts of all who believe and confess Him as Lord. So in the spiritual realm wouldn't it be very possible to say that God is everywhere and fills all space?That's pretty much what I was saying was possible, yes. :): Even if I personally doubt it. It's just that it reminds me of far too many non-Christian belief systems that argue that God is some kind of binding force to the universe--which He is, I agree, but He's not limited to that. But it is true that lots of belief systems do have a certain degree of truth, of course; Satan's greatest lies always contain some vestige of truth to make the lies palatable...

[joy4Him2day]

my brain hurts :nerd

Tankermom: :lol if you keep hanging around these guys, that's what happens.......:rofl

[Hootmon]

Tankermom: :lol if you keep hanging around these guys, that's what happens.......:rofl No Pain, No Gain. :heh

[AnyDayNow]

No Pain, No Gain. :heh

:spit Exactly. :heh

[Angyl]

I would have to disagree with the original quote. What he's suggesting, (that there are no spatial barriers to God's presence) speaks to God's omnipotence (nothing can stop Him from going where he pleases).

From its very definition: omni=all and present=here or in place. God is all present. Omnipresent. that's EVERYWHERE

And I will say that with a caveat: God is not where He doesn't want to be. For example, God's presence is not in Hell.

Also, God's presence must have varying degrees, for when he was in the Temple and Holy of Holies, he was THERE for real, but again, not completely.

Then again, it is entirely possble that God's omnipresence is just a simplification of a process for our little minds to better understand how God can hear, see and be concerned with all things in the world simultaneously, from the crawling ant, to the murdering wife.