Headship and the church: Can someone help?

[humbleone]

Hi,

I am wanting to understand what it means to be "under headship" when you belong to a Church. Does that mean you can't or shouldn't visit other churches w/o permission from your pastors, or anything like that?

I am asking because a good friend of mine who does not currently attend church (for personal reasons, not because she is lazy or lukewarm) likes to hold prayer meetings and have times of praise and worship in her home. Just this past week, I and several other women got together for a time of intense prayer for this country. There were 3 different churches represented amongst those of us present. My problem is, I think one of my pastors is AGAINST this sort of thing, saying that it is "rebellion" for someone to hold prayer meetings (or whatever) when they themselves are not plugged into a local Body AND/OR they arent calling up the pastors of the people's churches and asking permission and inviting the pastors to come, too.

What do you all think of this? I am upset and torn about this. I dont think it should matter who knows and who is invited, as long as it is sincere, Spirit-filled, born-again believers (which we all are, glory to God) gathering together to pray and praise. I'm either not seeing or not understanding where in the Bible it says we are cannot fellowship outside of our local churches. Or that we can, but only with Pastor permission and knowledge. I pray I will receive God-ly counsel and wisdom as I really want to know what is right so I can then do the right thing in the future w/o feeling that I am doing something wrong.


Thanks so much and God bless you,


humbleone

[PreTribber]

I don't see what would be wrong in what you're doing. Why would a gathering of prayer and worship time with others be something you should have to ask permission for in order to do?

I'd be tempted to ask my Pastor for Scriptural references that support his views in this.

[AnotherOldGuy]

I can understand a pastor being concerned about something like that. One of his flock maybe being influenced by, as far as he is concerned, who knows what kind of teaching - especially when there is no church sponsorship.

The word 'pastor' appears once in the NT - actually the Greek word for shepherd. A good shepherd does not let his sheep wander off to just anywhere.

Some people can detect when something's a 'little fishy' better than others and he may just be trying to protect you and potentially the rest of his congregation.

[PreTribber]

She's not talking about teaching though. If that were the case, I could understand better the concern. They are getting together for prayer and worship. If I called a few ladies over for prayer and worship, would I have to receive permission from my Pastor?

[Patty T]

I can't recall any place in scripture where we need to ask permission from anyone to get together with other believers to pray and worship the Lord.

[seeker42]

I would consider doing a search here under the term "shepherding" and see what you find.

Going to a Bible Study or prayer meetings with other christians who are NOT in your church is 100% ok.

It is important to be sure that there is a Biblical and doctrinal basis for everything that Pastors and leaders teach. Some leaders attempt to take advantage of the congregations by teaching what is NOT in the Bible.

THe perspective that one must obtain "permission" from a pastor either 1) in order to attend a Bible Study/prayer meeting or 2) for any other major detail in your life is NOT Godly, NOT Biblical, and NOT found in the Bible.

The Bible teaches the importance of the Local independent congregation, and that Pastors are accountable to congregation. There is No Biblical basis for trying to turn a church into a monarchy. Protestants are Not Roman Catholic. They do not have to do what the Pastor says ...under threat of not going to heaven. All members of the church should remember that we must evaluate what we are taught according to the Bible.


Seeker

[blitzkreig]

Sounds like someone might be power tripping. If it happened to me I might be even worried about some kind of "cult" mentality at the Church.

You said "I think one of my pastors is AGAINST this sort of thing". Ask them point blank. So far all you have is suspicion. Nothing for certain. Ask them to spell out the concerns.

I wonder what they might think of you corresponding with a few hundred Christians on the internet ... :confused

Oh ... and never drink the kool-aid ... :freaked

[humbleone]

You said "I think one of my pastors is AGAINST this sort of thing". Ask them point blank. So far all you have is suspicion. Nothing for certain. Ask them to spell out the concerns.
************************
It is a husband and wife pastor-team, and the wife is the one I had the conversations with. And well, its not just suspicion, she came right out and said it was not OK. I am sure her husband would agree with her 100%. She told me I should not hang out with this one friend of mine because the friend is not currently attending a church (but the friend is like a sister to me and one of the most God-ly women I know). This friend is one who likes to have people over for praise and worship and prayer meetings. Its informal and all that we have ever done is well, sing and praise and worship the Lord and pray in the Spirit together. That is all.

My pastor says this is "rebellion" because my friend is not herself under "headship" (i.e. I guess that she is not plugged into a local church). But I feel like even if she WAS plugged in, my pastor would still have a problem with it UNLESS my friend called her (pastor) and let her know what was going on (i.e. prayer meeting, worship time, etc) and also invited her, too.

Now what do you think? I've been very troubled over all of this as I too, felt like it seemed like a control thing more than anything Biblical. But I want to seek counsel before I make any decisions so that is what Im doing here.


God bless you all for your help!


humbleone

[cindyw]

I would ask this woman pastor point blank what scriptures are making her come to the belief that various believers coming together to pray and worship is a bad thing. I am a very big proponent in leadership protecting the "sheep", but I'm not so sure this is the case, but you won't know unless you ask specifically.

[sewserious]

First of all, it is none of her business! It would be different if she had a valid reason for not wanting you to meet with these friends, like she found out one of them was in a cult or something, but she has no valid reason at all.

Second of all, she has no business being a 'pastor'. She herself is being unscriptural IMHO.

[Patty T]

I would ask this woman pastor point blank what scriptures are making her come to the belief that various believers coming together to pray and worship is a bad thing. I am a very big proponent in leadership protecting the "sheep", but I'm not so sure this is the case, but you won't know unless you ask specifically.


This would be my suggestion too. Where, specifically in scripture, is this issue addressed? I'm guessing that if you choose to have communion at home that wouldn't go over well either - even though Jesus said WHEN (not where) you do this, do it in rememberance of Me.

[humbleone]

Thanks for all the feedback. I guess I should mention that the friend of mine Ive mentioned, USED to be a member of this same church that I currently attend. My friend left it around 4-5 years ago, before I ever knew her. My gut feeling, and I could be wrong, is that possibly my pastor has something personal against her for leaving her church and/or is afraid that my friend will try to "lure" people away from her church. I just dont think something is right, and I have thought about leaving my church over this, I'm serious!

And yes, I guess I should ask my pastor what Scriptures she can use to back up her stance. She told me that I should not even eat with my friend, because she doesnt go to church and that that is a "reviler" and "fornication" (?? huh?). When I called her on those, citing 1 Cor 5:11 (sorry, no time to look up and paste in, will do that later), and that nowhere does that verse say not to eat with one who is not attending a church, that's when she took the word "reviler" and said my friend is guilty of that.

And ok, I have to leave for work but the more I talk about this, the more annoyed I become. The whole thing just seems ridiculous to me. I feel like my pastor could be battling insecurity in the name of trying to help me. Like she told me I need to hang with friends who are "operating in god-ly principles" which my friend is, in all areas EXCEPT the thing about her not currently attending a church (!). It's maddening. Ug, please advise, please say a prayer the Lord will help me know how to handle this now. And oh, this friend of mine has been a HUGE help to me in every way, encouraging me in the Lord, praying with and for me, loaning me book after helpful (Christian) book, taking me to worship concert where I was miraculously healed emotionally, etc. etc. The friend also tithes, fasts, prays, worships and is an all-around wonderful person. She opens her home to whomever needs a place to hang out and she is very compassionate and loving to all.


God bless y'all and have a great day!


humbleone

[antsinmypants]

And yes, I guess I should ask my pastor what Scriptures she can use to back up her stance. She told me that I should not even eat with my friend, because she doesnt go to church and that that is a "reviler" and "fornication" (?? huh?). When I called her on those, citing 1 Cor 5:11 (sorry, no time to look up and paste in, will do that later), and that nowhere does that verse say not to eat with one who is not attending a church, that's when she took the word "reviler" and said my friend is guilty of that.


OK, that is just WEIRD. Your pastor doesn't have a leg to stand on, unless the following is true... that you're following this directive on fellowship, and that the person being fellowshipped with is someone who speaks evil of others, is verbally abusive and uses coarse language.


1Cr 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Cr 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Cr 5:13 But them that are without [outside] God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


OK, Reviler:

Main Entry: re·vile
Pronunciation: ri-'vI(&)l
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): re·viled; re·vil·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French reviler to despise, from re- + vil vile
transitive senses : to subject to verbal abuse : VITUPERATE
intransitive senses : to use abusive language : RAIL
synonym see SCOLD
- re·vile·ment /-'vI(&)l-m&nt/ noun
- re·vil·er noun

Rail:

Main Entry: 4rail
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French railler to mock, from Old Provençal ralhar to babble, joke, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin ragulare to bray, from Late Latin ragere to neigh
: to revile or scold in harsh, insolent, or abusive language
synonym see SCOLD
- rail·er noun