Extravagant Churches

[The Bearen]

One of the things that gets to me is the extravegants in some prosperity churches.

After the Victory church scandel how can we as believers speak out against ministers who have a wrong motive and fleece the flock?

Another question is do our church buildings really need to have state of the art sound sytems and lighting , is this money well spent to make the church look like Hollywood, I am not saying all churches are into this.

What are epoples views on this subject.

Dave

[Catwoman]

I like to be comfortable and that's really all I look for as far as the "look" of the church.

I could care less about 200 people choirs, kids doing rap dances and a full band.

Oh yes. The most important thing I almost forgot. I prefer pastors that actually refer to Scripture from time to time rather than a current bestseller.

[BenalishSiward]

I've seen many churches like this, and they spend so much on these things, when poor in their community still do not eat, and are not housed.

Personally, I'd rather stand through an entire church session, straining to hear the pastor and relying on the singing of the congregation if I knew the needy were being ministered to.

[SuzyQ]

What Victory church scandal ?

[MindieRose]

I have a very large, you could consider "extravagent" church. I dont think its wrong either way to have a big fancy church, or a small modest church, its what goes on inside the church that matters, and where they disperse their funds. For example, my church gave 2.5 million to missions last year, they have an outreach program that goes into the innercity to preach and provide resources, many many youth programs and missions programs. Every lesson is straight from the word of God, everyone is told to bring their Bibles and take notes. I believe that whatever you build/do for the Lord, it should be done with excellence, and by that I mean with the best means that YOU have to do them with. For some they may only have enough money to rent a small office space to hold church in, and that is a glory to God because its the best you could do, but if someone has a lot of funding coming in, and did the same, and hogged the money, that would be a sin. You do the best with what you have, and thats all you can do. No one is sinning for having a prosperous church, just as God blesses individual people in different ways, He does the church. Having these large churches around reaches a broader spectrum of people, and reaches around the world because of the large amount of money that flows through them.
One thing that I noticed last year, that made me really love my pastor and his wife, was when they didnt know if they could fly their son and daughter in law up from mexico (they are missionaries, and the daughterinlaw is one of my best friends) because airline tickets were so expensive. First thing I thought was "how could they NOT have the money, look at this church!" But then I realized that all of that money that they see for a second really doesnt stick around long, it is always being moved on to a greater cause.
Its not how extravagent the church is, its where the focus of the money is put.

[Knight of Faith]

Its not how extravagent the church is, its where the focus of the money is put.
Very true.
But I think the point is that the more "extravagent" the church is, the more the operational costs of the church are. Thus more money is not going anywhere but into the building.

[MindieRose]

Very true.
But I think the point is that the more "extravagent" the church is, the more the operational costs of the church are. Thus more money is not going anywhere but into the building.


But what service is the building providing? For some churches that operate throughout the week, and almost 24 hours a day, they are providing classes for youth and young children, classes to grow in Christ, and an alternative place for teens to hang out at. Some, maybe not all, but some of these churches are doing a great job being Gods hands and opening their doors all week long instead of just on Sunday.

[Julie_TX]

I think I have some problem with an overly extravagant church. My parents and I attend a small (one room, basically) church. Our hymnals were printed in 1957. The piano is older than that. But we hear a great message every time and our Sunday School is alive and well with only 20 or so members. The money that is tithed is used for the operational costs of the church, which are small, but also for the needs of members and our pastor and his daughter, which include things like new prescription glasses and dental work that they would not otherwise be able to afford. I think that a church that has enough money to keep the lights on and help the people in the church is the way to go. So if I went to a really big fancy church, I'd just hope they were doing the same things for their members.

[newbie]

I not only go to a "megachurch", but I work at one, and I gotta tell you, I was shocked at all of the things we do.

We have over 100 employees working at our church (many of them volunteers) like myself. We are a church of 6,000 members with various venues to experience different worship in each one from "rock band" to organ.

But, you will see each and every attender bringing his/her bibles each Sunday, and using it! Our sermons are Bible-based and yet, when you leave the Church, you feel like God has spoken to you in many cases.

During the week, the services offered by this "megachurch" are:

1) We have missionaries in all parts of the world and support them;
2) We offer counseling to church and non-church members;
3) Our small groups each take a service project for the community such as cleaning up neighbors, private houses, retirement facilities, feeding the homeless, etc.
4) We give bus tokens, gas money, and lunches to the homeless who come in, whether they go to our church or not.
5) We provide groceries, and cash assistance to church goers.
6) We provide transportation to church goers for Dr visits, etc.
7) We have a ministry that provides food and setup for funerals and weddings.
8) We collect Bibles and donate them to various shelters, etc on the community.
9) We have a large singles ministry for people throughout the City, whether they go to our Church or not -- not to meet people of the opposite sex, but to have a place where Christian singles can meet for worship and learning and enjoyment. There are camping trips, and excursions through the year. This draws approx. 500-1,000 people every other Fri.
10) We open up our church for outside groups to meet weekly, such as quilters, AA, Alanon, etc. to give back to the community.
11) WE have prayer teams set up who work non-stop to pray for the weekly prayer requests that come in on Sundays.
12) EVERY prayer request is read and prayed over.
13) We have 4-week classes that provide education on How to Study your Bible, Christianity 101, etc., Messianic Jewish classes, etc.

You can say all you want about Megachurches, but don't discount them unless you've seen inside them and all of the wonderful things they do.

[Jael]

Personally, I'd rather stand through an entire church session, straining to hear the pastor and relying on the singing of the congregation if I knew the needy were being ministered to.

If every church fit your description, many people like me would not be able to attend...I have rheumatoid arthritis and I often cannot stand for any length of time. Not to mention the elderly, mothers with babies and small children, the disabled. Your church model would end up excluding many.

And as for microphones, if you have to strain to hear the pastor (as you prefer), the congregation will miss much of the message, and therefore go home unfed (I am speaking from experience, as I once attended a country church was large enough to need microphones, but didn't have them.) Besides, the sound system is not something that has to be purchased every month. It's a one time capital expenditure that allows the congregation to hear what is going on. I don't see anything wrong with ensuring that the preached word can actually be heard.

If you were talking about frivolous spending on new carpets every year or expensive decor, or expanding unnecessarily, then I would agree with you. But seats and a sound system? I think they are worth the money.

[elredcrow]

I believe the temple Solomon built according to God's instructions was pretty extravagant, but I personally prefer a smaller church where it feels more like family. Thing is, when we get to heaven, extravagance is going to take on a whole new meaning. Streets of gold, mansions for everyone. Doesn't sound too shabby.

[elredcrow]

I believe the temple Solomon built according to God's instructions was pretty extravagant, but I personally prefer a smaller church where it feels more like family. Thing is, when we get to heaven, extravagance is going to take on a whole new meaning. Streets of gold, mansions for everyone. Doesn't sound too shabby.

As far as sound systems, go, I would like to see all the churches buy new sound systems... my son in law sells them for a living. :lol

sorry for the double post... :rolleyes

[Willo]

I not only go to a "megachurch", but I work at one, and I gotta tell you, I was shocked at all of the things we do.

I go and work for one of the biggest churches in the state I live in. Sure we have all the latest equipment.

But we also look after the poor and needy first, so I reckon brushing all large churches with the same brush is a bit ignorant.

[newbie]

Willo, that's exactly what I meant! Just because a church is large with a large following - and just because there are different kinds of worship, does not mean it's not a good church.

I think churches are like people -- you need to see their fruit! And our Church, large though it is, puts out plenty of fruit!

[BenalishSiward]

If every church fit your description, many people like me would not be able to attend...I have rheumatoid arthritis and I often cannot stand for any length of time. Not to mention the elderly, mothers with babies and small children, the disabled. Your church model would end up excluding many.

And as for microphones, if you have to strain to hear the pastor (as you prefer), the congregation will miss much of the message, and therefore go home unfed (I am speaking from experience, as I once attended a country church was large enough to need microphones, but didn't have them.) Besides, the sound system is not something that has to be purchased every month. It's a one time capital expenditure that allows the congregation to hear what is going on. I don't see anything wrong with ensuring that the preached word can actually be heard.

If you were talking about frivolous spending on new carpets every year or expensive decor, or expanding unnecessarily, then I would agree with you. But seats and a sound system? I think they are worth the money.

I have a persistent knee condition, myself. I can't stand for more than 10 minutes without experiencing some pain. Same for kneeling. I was using a figurative example. I'd hope every church is doing well enough to afford everything it needs to serve its congregation, but if it's able to begin to afford beyond its needs, I'd simply hope it would center its expansion on helping taking care of, and spreading the word to, needy people.

And I wasn't talking about "A sound system". I've never been to one that didn't have one. But I am talking about are the $10 million Mega-Ultra-Theater Bose Acoustics Super-Surround-Will-Kill-A-Stray-Dog-If-It-Stands-In-Front-Of-A-Speaker systems that some places are buying, when everyone could hear fine before.

The basics are important; I was just illustrating a point. The question comes to my mind, is when does all the extravagance stop being a way to help people find God, and become just a way so people can see the pastor?

[breezef43]

The Creator has made a way for you and me to receive the most
awesome gift there could ever be. The gift of Himself. And for
two thousand years as many as who would receive Him, to them
He gave the power to become Children of G-d. We get nothing
from G-d except that which we receive. It's not by works so
no man can boast.

Now she took her most expensive perfume and slowly fell on her
knees. Shook loose her hair; a fragrance filled the air; as she
began to wash the Master's feet. Judas Iscariot, a teacher plus
a practical businessman remarked: "Stop wasting that perfume,
enuff is enough." The Master said, "Leave her alone. Judas don't
you understand? You can't put a price tag on Love."

Love or money. If anyone loves money will they ever have enough?
Is that why at least 16% of the Four Gospel messages have in some
way or another a direct reference to the subject of money? You
reckon G-d already KNEW that money was going to be a problem?

They cheerfully brought their love gifts to the church house, then
quiety listened as the Reverend spoke. "Tithe or else you're a
thief! Is greed your disease? Sow your seeds before the church
goes broke!" Reverend Pharisee took away love's opportunity.
Every week a brand-new crisis, never money enough. The people
lost all their cheer. Gifts of true love became gifts of fear.
You can't put a price tag on G-d's Love...


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