A Question About The Soul/Brain

[ManhattanGuy]

Here's something I have a question about. If we really do have a soul or spirit that embodies who we are as individuals then why do those who suffer with Alzheimers, in which the brain is slowly destroyed, lose themselves? What I mean is that if who we really are is a result of our soul then why would people slowly dissapear when they suffer from Alzheimers. Don't the effects of Alzheimers prove that we are nothing more than physical creatures and that our "soul" is nothing more than the result of chemicals and cells in the brain? Thanks!

[PreTribber]

Here's something I have a question about. If we really do have a soul or spirit that embodies who we are as individuals then why do those who suffer with Alzheimers, in which the brain is slowly destroyed, lose themselves? What I mean is that if who we really are is a result of our soul then why would people slowly dissapear when they suffer from Alzheimers. Don't the effects of Alzheimers prove that we are nothing more than physical creatures and that our "soul" is nothing more than the result of chemicals and cells in the brain? Thanks!
In the following verse, it would appear that the soul is a separate part to our being, though I think it may be related to how we live and think as far as spiritual matters go, yet unlike the brain and heart which die, the soul doesn't.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

According to Strong's, the definition of soul is-

1) breath

a) the breath of life

1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing

a) of animals

b) of men

b) life

c) that in which there is life

1) a living being, a living soul

2) the soul

a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)

b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life

c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

[bopeep1909]

People are going to suffer from illnesses and disease in this world. It started with that apple that Eve ate. We wither and die everyone of us christians or nonchristians(unless Jesus comes back to get us before we die of some kind of illness). We are just living in our worldly tents right now. Our human bodies are subject to decay. From the time we are born we start ageing. Our bodies will be changed and resurrected to super, nondestructible bodies that will never die or get sick someday if we are Christians and go into Heaven to be with Christ. The souls who are Christians and have already died are in Heaven with Christ right now awaiting their resurrected bodies.Those who are not Christians will go to hell after they die and will continue to suffer :(: unfortunately.<><

[ManhattanGuy]

Yes, but if the decay of our physical brain changes who we are as a person does that not reveal that all we really are is a collection of biological cells and nothing more?

[bopeep1909]

Our brain is apart of our "worldly" body. God has made our human body of many many kinds of cells. We have a soul that goes on forever. That soul goes to heaven to be with Christ when we die if we are christians,or goes to hell when we die if we are not christians. It is a choice Christ has given us. He did not create us as robots who have to love or believe in him or else. Every human has a soul within their human decaying body. The soul goes on, the decaying body(including the brain, stomach, heart,liver,kidneys etc) are subject to disease. I really am glad I will have a perfect body someday in Heaven when that sick aging old body is transformed into a new resurrected body.<><

[PreTribber]

Yes, but if the decay of our physical brain changes who we are as a person does that not reveal that all we really are is a collection of biological cells and nothing more?

I think maybe you need to differentiate between the physical and the spiritual make up of our bodies.

Who we are as a person in God's eyes spiritually, as opposed to who you may see on the outside of a brain that is failing due to disease, that may create in your eyes a totally different person.

While our physical bodies are made up of cellular structure that will deteriorate and die, our spirits are eternal, which would indicate they are not 'a collection of biological cells'.

[kerri]

I'm thinking this may have something to do with your question...





http://www.acts17-11.com/dialogs_soul.htmlWhat is plain to men of every religion is that we are a body plus something else. This is called "dualism" and the "something else" is alternately termed soul or spirit. In dualism spirit and soul are synonyms. This requires no revelation nor heavenly insight to perceive.





Heb 4:12 (NAS) For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.





So for us these are distinct and separate. And as we grow in grace this becomes all the more clear in experience.





Mat 12:18 (NIV) "Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations."



Rom 8:11,13 (NAS) But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you... for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.



The best and most clear explanation I could give you is that you do not have a soul, you are a soul. You may or may not have a live body, and you may or may not have a live spirit (more on this in a moment). But in either case you are a soul.



Your soul is your eternal self that will spend eternity in heaven or hell. It is you. It is not necessarily good; it needs to be transformed and healed.

So what does it mean for our spirits to be "alive" or "dead"?

Before we are "born again", our spirits are dead in the sense that we cannot perform the function for which we were designed. An analogy would be a car without gas in it. It would still be a car (spiritless humans are still human) but it would be dead for the use an owner bought it for. In the same way, we are dead to be able to do anything useful to God without His Spirit quickening us to life.



1 Cor 15:45 (NAS) So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul." The last Adam [Christ] became a life-giving spirit.





Through Christ we are "brought near" to God, and specifically because of the perfection of Christ and His favor towards us we are able to have His Holy Spirit dwell within us. This very small portion of the Holy Spirit in each of us is what I take to mean our "spirits". If our spirits are made alive, it is by participation in God via the Holy Spirit given us through Christ. And the Spirit in us will prosper our souls and outlive the temporary bodies in which we dwell.





Joel 2:28 (NIV) "And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people."



Acts 2:17 (NIV) In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.



Some have different views, but my understanding is that our "spirits", if "alive" are our portion of the eternal Spirit of God which dwells within us.





Gal 5:25 (NAS) If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.





To have God's Spirit in us, whatever our views of the nature of the human spirit, is a great privilege indeed. Jesus makes this possible. For the Holy Spirit would never dwell in carnal, sinful me unless Jesus had died in my place and made me acceptable to be brought into God's presence; or rather in this instance, for God's presence to be brought into me. Now my soul is saved forever, even though the body is doomed to die. And our souls have been promised new bodies.





1 Cor 6:13 (NAS) Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food, but God will do away with both of them. Yet the body is not for immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body.



1 Cor 15:42-49 (NIV) So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

Rom 8:10 (Wey) But if Christ is in you, though your body must die because of sin, yet your spirit has Life because of righteousness.

Rom 3:21-22 (NIV) But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

Phil 3:9-11 (NIV) ...and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.



It seems that we are all created triune... our body spirit and soul are all connected (in making up the "whole" of us), yet they are all distinct to themselves as well.

I think the answer to your question lies in the connection between body and soul (our spirits are either dead/seperated from God or alive/one again with God through Christ) .... where we see glimpses of their connection in sickness or health- and of their distinctness, even among senile pateints, when we hear of certain responses from them that can not be scientifically explained- such as how they react and seem to remember things from certain songs or smells and when times of complete clairty surface (especially when passing from life to death) etc...

Tough question- without a very cut and dry answer I think.

[blitzkreig]

If someone were to cover you with a blanket it doesn't change who you are, you are just under a blanket.

If disease covers you with sores all over your body you are still you, only covered with sores.

If accident or illness covers over your personality, the intellect, that has no effect on the Soul after Salvation as the Body and the Soul are separated, and that person is still the same person, only an ill person.

The following is not 100% on topic but demonstrates the interaction between the "Body", the "Soul", and the "Spirit". What happens to the "Body" does not actually effect the "Soul" or "Spirit" after Salvation.



"... Ye MUST be born again" John 3:7

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:5-6 ) Each man and woman born into this world is a being made of three (3) distinct components:
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23 )1: The BODY. This is your PHYSICAL component of being. It is flesh made from a collection of unremarkable mineral elements (but is mostly water) and is in harmony with the nature and spirit of this world. It grows, matures, begins to deteriorate, eventually dies, and then decomposes back into it's constitute elements and remains a part of the dust of the world. The body is a part of you, but is NOT ALL of what defines who YOU are. "And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed," (Prov 5:11 ) 2: The SOUL. This is who YOU are; it is a part of your SPIRITUAL component. This is your individuality; your "I AM," so to speak; your "heart." Although your individual soul did not exist before your mother and father procreated you, it will exist forever. It can not be killed by man: "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matt 10:28 ) When your body dies your soul (YOU) will leave the body of flesh:
"And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin." (Gen 35:18 )3: The SPIRIT. This is the source of power and control for both your body and soul; it is either evil or good, darkness or light, unholy or Holy, unclean or clean, of Satan or of God: "But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." (Luke 9:55 )Where your soul spends eternity after it departs is determined by your personal relationship to God (saved or unsaved). You are an eternal being. You determine your own destiny. In fact, the Bible says that you are a "god" (small "g"): "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
(John 10:34 )"So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." (Gen 1:27 ) (see also Isaiah 41:23 and Psalms 82:6)
The unsaved man or woman, those that have only the first birth, are in eternal danger. Since the body and soul of the unsaved man or woman is bonded together to the dead spirit of this present world, then when this world's physical elements and spiritual components (including "Death") are cast into the lake of fire (see Rev 20:13-15) those eternal souls, living or already dead, will perish with them. So, what exactly is the difference of relationship between the unsaved soul and the saved soul? What does being "Born Again" actually mean? The answer is something that God does for you at the moment you accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior: An OPERATION.

Have you ever been operated on, by a doctor? The doctor uses a knife to cut away something that is diseased. Well, God's "operation" is similar. Using the Sword of the Lord instead of a scalpel the Great Physician (Luke 5:31) severs the direct (but unseen) connection between your soul and your flesh: "For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Heb 4:12 ) "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." (Col 2:12 ) This "operation" is a spiritual circumcision. Your flesh is cut away from your soul and you are given God's Spirit: "But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God." (Romans 2:29 )After you have accepted the free gift of salvation through faith in the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, and as you grow and mature in the Lord (your continuing sanctification), you will begin to notice some changes in how you think. You will find that your heart (soul) grows more and more in agreement with God and His law (which is spiritual), but your flesh will still want to go the way of the world. All true born again Christians have a split personality, so to speak. And even when you work not to sin (you don't work to stay saved), sin still happens along your path of Christian growth. Paul sums it up quite well in the book of Romans: "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." (Romans 7:21-25 )Your soul is saved, but your flesh, your present physical body, is still dead and can not be salvaged. It will perish and return to the earth (you get a new body later). Your present flesh will still lust to do those things that are unlawful, while at the same time your heart and the Spirit will condemn those thoughts and feelings, an empower you to avoid the temptation. But no Christian is perfect in the flesh, and as you go through this life you will sometimes give in to those feelings and will sin in the flesh (but not in your heart).

FACT: Christian people DO SIN at times (but in the flesh, only) after they are saved:
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 )

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" (1 John 2:1 )When this happens, and the guilt begins to set in, the Christian starts worrying about losing their salvation or committing the unpardonable sin. Well, it can't happen. FACT: It is NOT POSSIBLE for a Christian's SOUL to sin, because that soul has been born again, by His (God's) seed, into God's family: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9 )Physical circumcision is permanent and can not be reversed; once that flesh is cut away it is gone forever. The same metaphor applies to circumcision of the heart; once that body of flesh is cut away your soul can't be reattached to it. And Praise God for that!

Salvation is the FREE GIFT of God, and eternal; it is not earned (or retained) by good works: "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23 )

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal 2:16 ) If you are not good enough to earn it, why do so many Christian people think that they can un-earn it? Once you have given your soul to God it is His, forever! If you have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ then you are loved of God and don't have to worry about holding onto God because HE WILL HOLD ON TO YOU.
"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38-39 )
Body, Soul and Spirit (http://www.kjvbible.org/body.html)

[antitox]

Here's something I have a question about. If we really do have a soul or spirit that embodies who we are as individuals then why do those who suffer with Alzheimers, in which the brain is slowly destroyed, lose themselves? What I mean is that if who we really are is a result of our soul then why would people slowly dissapear when they suffer from Alzheimers. Don't the effects of Alzheimers prove that we are nothing more than physical creatures and that our "soul" is nothing more than the result of chemicals and cells in the brain? Thanks!

Our physical body which connects us to the world is the only component we have that can express and communicate in it. If the body does not operate properly, the soul cannot express itself. For example, if you are driving a car and the car starts having problems, does it mean the driver is not working? And the answer is no, of course.
The body must function properly in order for the soul to fully operate in this world.

[ManhattanGuy]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I've got a better perspective on this subject now.

[Hootmon]

Interesting post, Blitz

[My Abba's Child]

Here's something I have a question about. If we really do have a soul or spirit that embodies who we are as individuals then why do those who suffer with Alzheimers, in which the brain is slowly destroyed, lose themselves? What I mean is that if who we really are is a result of our soul then why would people slowly dissapear when they suffer from Alzheimers. Don't the effects of Alzheimers prove that we are nothing more than physical creatures and that our "soul" is nothing more than the result of chemicals and cells in the brain? Thanks!

ManhattanGuy,

Our brains are nothing more than muscles, nothing more than another part of our flesh and bones and blood of this temporary tent in which our souls reside. When we die, every part of these bodies will cease to function and will return to the dust from which we came. Our soul has NOTHING to do with our flesh. In the case of Alzheimers, it's just like someone who has a disease that effects the other muscles of their bodies. Those muscles slowly degrade and may cease to function normally at all, but that doesn't mean that their soul, that part of them that is created in the image of God and is eternal, is any different--they're just kept from functioning normally by a malfunctioning muscle.

Because normally people consider who they are as a function of the muscle we call our brains and the chemical responses controlled by said muscle, Alzheimers disease can SEEM to be the loss of the person altogether. However, that would be the same as saying that a person suffering from Cerebral Palsy to the point where they can no longer use their arms or legs is no longer a person, or that a person suffering from a stroke in which one side of their body is paralyzed is no longer a person. Our souls are a completely seperate thing from our flesh, blood and bone. It is the eternal in a temporary home. The Bible tells us that our bodies are but a tent, something that is temporary. However, our souls will one day reside in our permanent, glorified and eternal bodies which will not experience sickness, pain, sin or death! :clap :D:

In His love,

[My Abba's Child]

Yes, but if the decay of our physical brain changes who we are as a person does that not reveal that all we really are is a collection of biological cells and nothing more?

The decay of our brains doesn't change who we are as a person... who told you that? :): The decay of our brain may change how we FUNCTION as a person just like if someone were to become paralyzed in a car accident or something... but it certainly would NOT change who we are. Someone suffering from Alzheimers may SEEM like a different person, but they are really the exact same person who is functioning from a malfunctioning muscle, just like a paraplegic is the exact same person who's functioning has changed due to malfunctioning muscle.

In His love,